Episode 24: Stuart DeWitt; From Trapping Lines To Fishing Grounds In Southeast Alaska

He grew up in Haines, Alaska with a bike, a beach, and more wilderness than rules and it shaped everything that came after. My guest, longtime local Stuart DeWitt, walks me through the moments that built his edge: early hunting trips, learning to trap from old-school mentors, and the kind of outdoor freedom that turns into real capability when things go sideways.

Then we get into the working life. Stuart shares what it really takes to survive in commercial fishing in Southeast Alaska, from gillnet salmon to Dungeness crab and halibut fishing under the IFQ quota system. We talk about why diversification matters, how risk decisions get made, and the wild chain of events that led to buying a 45-foot boat in Hawaii, building a cradle, barging it to Seattle, and driving it back north. It’s a masterclass in timing, relationships, mechanical problem-solving, and being prepared when luck shows up.

We also don’t dodge the hard parts: viral encephalitis as a kid, the brutal reality of hospitals full of sick children, the politics of fisheries management, allocation pressure, hatchery economics, and what happens when prices crash. On the personal side, Stuart reflects on coaching youth basketball, building confidence through small wins, and what he hopes his kids remember about work ethic, reliability, and family.

Subscribe for more conversations rooted in Haines and Southeast Alaska, share this with someone who loves fishing or small-town stories, and leave a review if it hits home. What’s the biggest risk you’ve taken that ended up changing your life?

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to this edition of Doug Has Questions. Today my guest is Stuart DeWitt, longtime, lifetime Haynes resident, good friend of known his family for a long time, going back to his grandparents. And Stuart's been a uh very active member of our community for a long, long time in a lot of different ways. So we're gonna get into it and get his view of that. Welcome, Stuart.

SPEAKER_05 0:25

Oh, thanks for having me, Doug. It's a kind of an interesting thing. I I don't know if I'd I didn't think I'd ever be doing a podcast, but what the heck? I didn't either. What could be better? Doing one about your hometown and everything else.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

So yeah, it's yeah, no, I I never thought anything about a podcast until last year about this time, and then started coming up with it. I was like, yeah, let's just talk to people.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

Yeah, I've watched a few of the episodes, it's been very, uh, very entertaining and informational and kind of a cool perspective.

Growing Up Wild In Haines

SPEAKER_01 0:53

So so so now you now you know the pressure's on you to be entertaining informational. I know it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you got it in you. So growing up growing up in Hanes, what what was that like?

Hunting Trips And Learning To Trap

SPEAKER_05 1:06

Oh, I think uh every kid that grows up in Hanes is just like you got the just the luckiest experience. Like, I mean, you got uh, you know, wilderness, watered mountains, pretty much whatever you can do. You ride your bike anywhere, you know, it's just like such a free place to live, be grow to grow up, and then like now that I got kids having them all be able to grow up here. Like I think my my youngest has been going right from school to the beach with his friends for the last like five days straight, building a fort. I mean, it's like it's like instant replay, you know, like the same exact kind of stuff I was doing with my friends back when I was maybe not I mean he's eight years old for crying out loud. It's like don't even worry about him. It's pretty pretty special place to grow up for sure. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

So with I know your dad was big into the outdoors, and so as as a kid, you were into the outdoors right away, weren't you?

SPEAKER_05 1:59

Uh yeah, you know, I I I think the first hunting trip I ever went on with him, I was probably not super young, but maybe like I want to say I was probably eight years old or something. I went to he was working in Corner Bay and uh with Roger Schnabel and Chauncey Craig, and I got the opportunity for whatever reason to go down there and uh we went and drove cruised around, drove logging roads and hung out with Chauncey and Roger and my dad, and I shot at my first deer, you know, there and it was just trapped a few Martin with Chauncey. Uh just pretty cool stuff that kind of got me hooked on. And then uh, you know, then later on in life I uh was lucky enough to I've befriended Ryan Cook and uh his grandpa, Squeak Smith, was like a big time trapper, like trapped behind Chilkoot a lot and kind of took us under his wing and he would he'd drive us around, you know, in his Ford Explorer and drop us off and pick us up and show us how to do things and so how how old were you when you started doing that with Squeak? Oh, I would say probably like uh 11, 12, 10, 11, 12, something like I mean I don't know exactly, but like I would say probably 11 years old, probably be the most accurate guess. But yeah, I I I remember him like we got like three mink one day, or you know, that was pretty exciting. We got a fox one day, yeah, you're just trapping uh down on the beach, you know, out by Lutec, you know, and got a few Martin. But uh yeah, we got kicked out of the garage multiple times for cutting the scent glands on a mink. Get out of here, kids.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Is that at Squeak's garage? Yeah. Yeah, down in his basement. In his basement.

SPEAKER_05 3:41

It was almost like a you know, like it was almost like, well, if we'd you know, if we'd do this, Ryan, we don't have to skin this thing. No, we didn't. Those things are not easy to skin. He made it look easy. He had all the stuff and uh just uh lucky to be able to learn on the the trapping stuff from somebody like that and and uh carried that on. We I've been haven't trapped much lately, but man, I trapped like every year I could from like eighth grade on through whenever I, you know, through high school, uh after I got back from college, uh did lots of trapping. And uh that's like my favorite thing to be in the outdoors and just like there's nothing more fun than like on the snow machine and like three inches of fresh snow and the animals just always like it's like you know the stuff's gonna be moving around seeing all the fresh tracks and that's a pretty pretty special pretty special thing to be able to be able to do and like you know, not that many people trapped around here really, so it was like kind of had we were able to like uh had lots of area and not much competition. It's kind of a lucky, you know, kind of lucky in that in that regard.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Well it's cool too that you're able to have somebody like Squeak teaching you how to do that.

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Oh yeah. Yeah, he had all the traps we needed, all the stretchers we needed, all these special fleshing pulls that he'd made over the years, his own way of doing things that was, you know, definitely you know, we were doing stuff that I remember like we'd always skin the feet out of Martin, and they'd said no, no, no, we don't want they don't want the feet on the Martin. But remember one year me and Ryan, this was this was like after this when we were older, probably like 2013 or something, I think the Martin price was really high, but we were still doing them the way Squeak taught us. And we said Martin and we got 650 bucks for it. One Martin? One Martin, 650 bucks. And it was skinned the way they supposedly don't want it, but they should have wanted that one. So you know that was that was crazy when we we were watching the auction online going like, oh my god, we got one. It's the top lot award or whatever, you know. So that was pretty cool. I think we averaged like 230 bucks a Martin that year. Dang. Yeah, it was actually made actually like one of the two years I probably made any money trapping.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

So it's more of a um just kind of a therapy thing being out in the woods rather than you're not making any money at it.

SPEAKER_05 5:59

Yeah, not making any money, just it's just I mean exercise, like just being out there's you just feel lucky that you're out there and you're all by yourself. Usually nothing goes wrong. Uh most of the spots were close enough where if something went wrong, you'd be able to walk, like your snow machine broke down, you'd be able to walk back to where somebody'd find you or anything. You know, luckily no no serious no serious. I mean the trailer all just trails, so like you're not gonna drive off a cliff or you know, like nothing crazy is gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

So I'm just thinking Martin, those feet are really small.

SPEAKER_05 6:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

That is what it's are you using some kind of a X-Acto knife or something to get in there or what to get in those feet?

SPEAKER_05 6:45

When he was teaching us, we were just using a regular like little case knife that we'd sharpen up and uh the uh I started using like uh one of those disposable, like uh like actually like the like the X60 XTs or whatever, like that's like the surgical blades that go on there. Yep. Yeah, stuff like that. But then I quit I quit actually cutting the feed off because they'd were adamant about not wanting it that way, so I quit doing it that way. And it didn't seem to affect the I mean I don't think the price was one way or the other, either way, so yeah.

Early Commercial Fishing Memories

SPEAKER_01 7:20

So at the at the same time, so that's that that's winter time. Yeah. Summertime, you do a lot of fishing. Commercial, yeah, I die, yeah. When did you start deck cannon for your dad? Or just at least going along on the boat.

SPEAKER_05 7:33

I remember he had the boat, the Sitzmark was the first boat we got when he moved back to Haynes, and it was like this. I mean, I was under the assumption that it was some big boat, I guess, back then, but it was in hindsight, it was like this little piece of junk, like flat bottom, like and uh I I fished a little bit with him on that, and actually I think I have my mom maybe even on there a couple times, and I remember being in big swells. I don't remember where exactly it might have been seduction point, I have a feeling. But I just remember these big swells and my mom being highly stressed, and and uh I mean I don't know, I didn't really know any better, but whatever. So that was the first year he had that boat I fished with him, and then the next year I think I was probably 87, and then I think in 88 he got the Tiffany Lee. Yep. And uh I fished with him a lot, quite a bit that summer. I remember one time uh I was we were we were going out in Mud Bay, and uh there was like all the it was just junk everywhere, like just trees. I don't remember what exact time of year it was, but there were still lots of stock guys around. And they were jumping everywhere, like everywhere, and I'm like just begging him, begging him, begging him to set his net. Like it was like you know, 11 o'clock, uh-huh, whatever, and he's like, not a chance. And I've heard Skipper was a skipper was there, and he's just like skipper's doing it no matter what, like he's he doesn't give a crap about all the logs and stuff. So we go down the beach away and get out of stuff, and I mean we we do fine, we get a hundred or something, but Skipper had like four hundred or something on that set, and I'd I just remember there's just I mean, in between all these logs and weeds and just crap everywhere, there's just fish jumping just like crazy. That was a vivid memory when I was a kid. I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

I was so now now that you'd be paying for the net mending or doing the net mending, would you still set in there to get the extra pick all those fish? I had to go ahead and sell for it.

SPEAKER_05 9:23

Oh yeah. Yeah, not a chance I would pass that up. Pass that one up. No way. No way.

Viral Encephalitis And A Close Call

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yep. So was it 88? Was that when you got sick? Or was it that was it I think 89. 89? Because I remember going um because Snuffy Smith, when you were in the hospital, Snuffy was captaining the Tiffany Lee. And I think I went out with him a couple weeks since his deck hand when you were down there. So what was that?

SPEAKER_05 9:48

Encephalitis, you said viral encephalitis, yeah. Yep. Uh it was a weird thing. We had, I don't, I don't, I mean, I I don't think anybody knows how like how I got it or what I got it from. But I remember being like that opening we were out fishing, like I'm pretty sure this this is my memory. I don't know if it's 100% correct or not, but we were out fishing white. We were fishing out in a spot we never fished, like out off the third island, and there was like us, Scott Gilbert, Jason Rams here, maybe having sparks. It was like our whole code group was just kind of hanging out there, and we were just lined up one after. We were catching a few socks. I remember it was flat, calm, sunny. And I was swimming around in the bay, you know, it was just like it was just an 80-degree day, and nothing was everybody was just hanging out. And then we go back and I had a baseball, little league baseball game. I was probably in sixth grade, I think I was in sixth grade. Uh little league baseball game, and uh, I don't remember any of this, like none of this. Like my mom I was pitching, and I always hit kids, but like I usually I felt bad when I would hit kids, but this time I was like snickering and like laughing. You're laughing as you I was laughing as I was like beating these kids, you know. Like so my mom was like, God, something's off with him, like something's wrong, you know. Like, but I I finished the game, whatever, came home and had a seizure, you know, like just seizure blue. I don't remember anything for I don't know how many days. I mean, I remember waking up in the hospital in Seattle. Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah, children's hospital in Seattle.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:21

Yep. Yeah, it was kind of interesting, crazy. Like I just it just went from I mean, I d I don't really remember laughing. I obviously I my mind was completely something was going on in my brain. Yeah. But I don't know if I remember playing that baseball game to be honest, but my mom tell told me you know told me about it. And but yeah, that was like a wild experience. I think I was in the hospital for 10 or 12 days or something. It took a while for them to figure out what was wrong with me. But uh Yeah, so that was a lucky. I dodged a bullet there and was recovered fine. I think I don't think it's a very good outcome a lot of times when you get that, I guess. You know, but I was lucky. Yeah, so we was down there, we were in McRonald McDonald's house. Um I remember I was there's a lot of sick kids in there. It was kind of you know, we shared the Nintendo that was like the big thing. Okay. We had to like rent the Nintendo for a sign up for the Nintendo for an hour. But yeah, there's that was a pretty pretty special place, man. They I just remember there's a lot of really sick kids in there and a lot of tough kids. They were just you could tell they were hurting, but they were, you know, they were happy to play a game of Nintendo or happy to do this. And that's kind of like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

I visited children's once when I was uh my freshman year in college. Jim Gulliford, who's in my class, he got cancer in sixth grade, and so he was battling, he'd been in remission, he'd come back, and then getting and so he was he was cancer to come back, and so my he was he was there um my freshman year in in college. I'd go over there and visit him, I think, a couple times. Um but yeah, you could see walking down the halls. There's uh there's yeah, there's a lot of tough people working there. I mean, there's the tough kids and everything there too. That's a man, that's uh that's a tough job there helping all those kids.

SPEAKER_05 13:12

I can't even imagine like the stuff that they go through, you know, like the doctors and the the the grief and dealing with parents and kids and all that stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

But I think it was so is he I can't I don't think it was that year. It might have been because I went you were you had to go back to school and your dad asked me if I'd deck hand for them, and they opened up the upper end of Chilcoot, right? All the way all the way to the mouth of the river, opened it up uh so it's end of August, first of September before I went back to college. And so I went out with them and there's pinks everywhere. Uh and so everybody we were catching sockeye at first, right? Decent amount. Everybody left after like the first couple of sets, and he dad's like, oh, let's just hang out here, we're not gonna go anywhere. And so we're we're doing all right with soccer. And then that night he's we set out, we started picking. It took us it was like eight or nine hours to pick the net. It was it was it was just so many pink salmon, but there's it might have been 88 because I remember that was when everything was the pink prices were really high. Yep, and uh we picked all night. There's several times we had to just like pull put fish onto the wheel because you couldn't pick them out because we're going up on the beach or whatever. I think I can't remember if it was two or three nights that we did that. Your dad was like, You want to do it again? Why not?

SPEAKER_05 14:39

45 cents a pound or something.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Yeah, and I I think that was like a$15,000 opening. Yeah. And for a long time, I don't know if your dad's topped it since then, but for a long time your mom was like, That's still the best week they've had on the Tiffany Lee. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:52

I think we he's probably topped it. I mean, we had some started fishing more chums after that, and there's some you know lots of volume and good price to couple with some of the years, you know. So I I think he's probably he's definitely made more than fifteen grand, I think, in a week. But I mean at that point, like he was just learning how to do it too. He didn't really he he didn't have a lot of experience skill netting, you know, he a ton anyway. I might have fish with RV a little bit and and uh and fished a year on the Sitsmark and then got the company lease shortly after. So I mean like yeah, I mean like it's might as well, I mean might as well pick pinks at 85 cents a pound. That was a lot of money back then.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

That was a lot of money back then. 30 years ago.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you'd be I mean that that's just shocking that people didn't want to go pick them. I think that was just the mentality though.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Like, why would we pick pinks when we could go catch a couple socks, like well in the in the sock eye were like three dollars a pound or something, and some people were like well, three eighty five three eighty something like that. Whatever, yeah, it's over three dollars a pound. And I mean, yeah, you could go out and you could have a really good week without a few.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

But there weren't many sock eyes that year, I don't think. I think it was kind of low, low abundance on sock eyes.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I I don't remember. I know some people made some really good money that year, but at 350, 375 or whatever. Yeah, you don't have to catch many to have a good year. But yeah, I was I've I was like, man, I got college to pay for out. I'll perfect. I'll pick pink sand. All day doesn't all day and so we went in the each day. I think we brought it, came in, and then your dad or some I can't remember if your dad was fixing the net or if he had somebody else come down and help patch up all the holes in the net. And then we went out in the afternoon, you know, catching a few socks, catching a few socks, set right about dark, and it's loaded.

SPEAKER_05 16:36

Wade through all the humpies, yeah. I mean, that's exciting. I mean, that's always exciting when you're catching lots of fish, don't really matter what they are, I think, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

That was that was the thing for me that I think why I never went into commercial fishing. Openings like that, where you got a lot of fish, sign me up. I'll pick all the fish you want. Yeah, but the openings where you you put it out there and you you wait an hour, hour and a half, however long you're gonna let it set, and it comes in and you got like three, yeah, or a water haul. Yeah. Like, oh my god, this is gonna take forever. Yeah, so it's hard not to quit. It's like I got I got so many things I could be doing right now. But the ones, and I you're a testament to this with a few others, you just stay you just keep grinding and grinding and grinding and figure out a way to make it happen.

SPEAKER_05 17:23

Yeah, well I figured out that like man, I'd I figured out when I I don't know how long it took me to figure this out, but I think I bought my my bought into fishing in like 1996. So I went to your I went to graduated in 96, went to college for a year, came back, went to Bristol Bay with Harold Belleski, didn't make any money.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

So that was a down year at the Bay.

The Hawaii Boat Deal Story

SPEAKER_05 17:43

It was terrible, yeah. We'd I don't even know if we'd I mean, I don't we barely set our net. Because Harold Harold didn't want to fish on the river, it was all stuck in the knack neck river, and he'd we went out for a couple of we did set our net. We'd be fifty fathoms, you're towing around tenders, barges, it's just like Harold didn't want any part of it. Yep. We didn't make any money. Gave us a few bucks, and uh I Ken Schmitz, remember them? The Schmitz, yeah. Yep, super nice guy, and Ted was his kid. Uh he was ready to get out of it, and he's like, I'll make you a deal, you know, like I'll I'll sell you the driftwood and the permit for 80,000 bucks and I'll finance it, and you send me a sixteen thousand dollar check on October 1st. And this was like August, I'm guessing, I mean probably middle of August sometime in 1997. And I'm like, all right, let me sign these papers next morning. Off I go to Deep Inlet. Like, just jump in the boat. Just jump off. Yeah, Ron Ron Martin was supposed to be my you know guide. He was gonna leave later because his boat was faster. Uh-huh. And he was gonna make sure, you know, he promised my mother I would make it there. Yeah blah blah blah blah blah. And he catches up to me and he hands me off Bruce Spencer, who I don't even know if he'd ever been through the narrows or anything. Yeah. Off he went. Probably had a date at the P bar station. But yeah, but we made it, you know, everything was fine. And I think uh next day I went fished uh on the West Line with uh Floyd Nevins, and I don't know, my my dad was probably there already. And I caught more fish than anybody. I mean I had this terrible net. Like the net color was like exactly you would never think it would work. I'd never use a net like that there again. But uh man that day it was it was it was the best net there. It caught the most fish. It was pretty I was I felt pretty good about my decision and going into fishing after that. Yeah, yeah. So that was after your freshman year in college and you just signed on for an eighty thousand dollar loan and yeah. I mean I didn't have to fill out no paperwork. You take Ken or Ted just was or Ken was just like, yep, I'd I'm you I have no doubt you're gonna be able to you'll pay me back. Yeah. And he just handed it over and went down to Montana. I don't think he regretted it at all. And so how how long did you fish the driftwood then? I fished the driftwood until like 2000. And then I sold it uh to Ray Parti. And uh my dad was working on the he worked started working for Kiwit. So I fished the Tiffany Lee for Okay. Uh yeah. Like, let's see. Well, I might have fished the driftwood for even longer than that. I think I fished the Tiffany Lee for five years, so like 2002 to 2006, probably. Uh I fished the Tiffany Lee, and then my dad was done with Kiwit, and he was like, Well, I'm gonna come back and go fishing, so I like I gotta get a boat. You need to find a boat. Yeah, and I found the boat I have now, just shit house lucky. This boat, I've been looking at this boat for six five, six years on the this Hawaii boat brokers. Every time he it was for sale a lot, like these I don't know who exactly, but like this rich guy would buy it for his kid, thinking his kid wanted to be a fisherman, and it would sell for 385 grand. Then a year later the boat would come up for sale for 300,000. And a year later the boat would come up for sale for 400,000. Just like I think it changed hands three or four times and nobody had any use for it, and finally this rich guy ended up with it, and his kid didn't want to fish, and he donated it to the American Reef Coalition, and they had it for like a year and a half, and it just was something they didn't use very much. So they mean this is just like so lucky. I don't even know how this but I'd been following this boat. Donate to the Reef Coalition, they get a survey on it, they don't want it anymore. Survey comes out at 85,000 bucks, so that's what they advertise it for. And my dad calls me up one day, like this time of year, middle of April. Hey, that boat you've been looking at, it's for sale for 85,000 bucks. On I said, Oh, there's no way. And there's he's like, I'm looking at it right now. I'm like, Oh my god, you're right. And I I called the broker right then and said, I'm coming. Over, like um, like I'm coming over to look at it. So we buy tickets. Uh, me and my dad, and somehow Parker. I will have a friend at Parker through the trapping, like I'd he'd go trapping with me all the time. Parker Schnabel. Yeah, Parker Schnabel, yeah. So we decided to take Parker's like 12 to Hawaii with us, which was another funny thing. Like Nancy joke with Nancy about it all the time. It's just like what were you thinking, Nancy? You know, it's just like crazy. Like, I remember so anyway, so we all go over there, we're at the stoplight, and we like look over, and like there's the boat right there. So we're in the wrong lane, so we do a loot turn go in there, and the guy, this guy happens to be walking off the boat, and uh, it's like the caretaker, and they're like, hey, we're here to look at this boat. Do you mind if we have a look around? He's like, Yeah, go for it. Like, he didn't really care about he didn't care about anything, just left it, left the boat open, you know, no big deal. We walked around on it and looked around on it, found there's a few things that weren't working, and uh called the broker and be like, hey, we want a test drive, you know, take this thing out for a cruise, but this isn't working. This the high knot this the Ford reverse wasn't working, the steering was messed up. So we're like, hey, can we fix this stuff so we can like take it out for a test drive? And he's like, Have at it, man. Like, whatever. So we we get it all fixed up. And really the boat was in really phenomenal shape.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Like, so with that stuff, you guys you guys flew over to Hawaii. Yeah, we flew yeah. So where where's your I know your dad's a master mechanic and like you are you guys just like going around begging tools out of the tool? How are you guys fixing all this stuff?

SPEAKER_05 23:35

You know, uh I feel like there was probably tools on it. Okay. I don't remember exactly, but like there was actually a really good marine store there that had all the stuff we needed to fix it. Like, I mean, they had like really good marine store. I mean, fishing's a pretty big industry over there, I think. But um, I couldn't believe how much like it was like it's better than most of the marine, like better than like an LFS almost, like very similar. Okay, yeah, very similar. And uh yeah, I'm sure there was there was had to be tools on the boat, or we went and bought some or whatever we did, but uh it was all simple stuff. It wasn't like we needed like it, you know, a 916 wrench and so nothing nothing major to fix it. It was all simple stuff. But uh yeah, so we take it out for a test drive and it's overheating a little bit. Uh we figured it was nothing major, but everything, I mean the boat was in crazy shape. The guy, uh Bobby Gomes, he was like one of those guys who he fished this boat like out like up on the mid like the Northwest Pacific Islands, like Midway Islands. Really? He had the boat like it's like 800 miles from Honolulu or something like that. And how big's the boat? 45 feet.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

45 feet?

SPEAKER_05 24:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

That's nuts.

SPEAKER_05 24:45

Yeah. Absolutely nuts. Yeah. And I actually met him in uh uh a couple years ago, went to uh Maui, lives in Maui, he's building a boat right now. Uh met him in Maui. He's telling me all these stories about this and that, and just how good this boat was to him, and you know how he really believes that you know your boat has a the spirit. And uh I mean I feel I feel it too. It's kind of he's like, I'm not trying to be corny, but it's like he's like, I get it, man. Like I totally get it. And uh but yeah, he was just telling me stories about how he's out there in like a you know a 60 knot northwest storm, and one specifically, like he was kind of broadsiding these waves a little bit, and this wave came over the boat, like the whole back deck full of water. Luckily they had the half door shut or the whole cabin would have flooded, and everything on his deck off the deck. So he drived along, he's like, All right, we're gonna now he thinks he's he's gonna turn around and get this stuff, you know. I think he got turned around and then he was like, he's like, what am I doing? And he turned back around and kept going.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

I don't need to, I don't need any of that stuff back. We can buy more of that when we get back to shore, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:05

Yep. But many other stories just like going out to do it, he was a jig fisherman, he bought him fish for all these high dollar, uh, I don't I don't know where where they went, but these high dollar, I can't remember what the heck he calls them, uh onagas and all these little redfish mostly snappers of some kind. But uh he was telling us he was going out and they got him to a school of ahi tuna and they had they filled that, they got 23,000 pounds of ahis on that in like 36 hours. Jigging? Uh they were just I don't know, I don't know. They don't they weren't they they had this I don't know if they were getting them with the jig machines, gapping them, bringing them in.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Or what exactly, but 23,000 pounds out of 36 hours. Holy cow. Yeah, that's bringing in a lot of fish in the right.

SPEAKER_05 26:54

I can even imagine how fun that would have been. Oh, that would have been a blast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 27:00

Crazy. But yeah, just lucky, I just lucked out on that boat, totally lucked out on that boat, you know. Just like so.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Did you guys once once you got everything, you said slight overheating, you went ahead and bought the boat?

SPEAKER_05 27:12

Yeah, we pulled it out, hauled it out, realized it was just what we kind of figured was probably just had a bunch of junk on, and the keel coolers were just covered with muscles and barnacles and just from sitting in the water forever. So that's the only reason why it was overheating. Okay. But when I bought the boat, it had almost 30,000 hours on it. Yeah. And I just took the motor out this year and it had 54,000 hours on it. Pretty, pretty impressive. My new motor doesn't start anything like my old motor. My old motor started way better. It just may barely turn the key on that thing and it just boom runs runs sweet. But anyway, I was going into that. I was like, so I was early when early on in as a fisherman, I learned, man, if I'm gonna be a fisherman, I gotta do more stuff than just be a gill netter.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Like hang on, before we get to that, did you guys did you bring the boat back then or did you make another trip to Hawaii to bring the boat back?

SPEAKER_05 28:05

So we went and oh, this is another crazy story. I mean crazy. So we're we're well, as we're messing around on the boat before we're uh doing all this, there's this shave ice stand, literally, like you know, a hundred yards from where the boat is, and it's this old old guy that's been around forever, and we're talking about getting this boat, and we gotta find somebody to build us a cradle, or we gotta build a cradle. And he's like, Hey brother, I got you, I got the guy for you, man. Like he'd he writes a number down and said, Call this guy. What the heck was the guy's name? Oh man, I can't remember his name. Anyway, we call this guy, and the boat's in the yard out of the water, we'd clean it off, and he comes by like that evening after work, looks walks around it a couple times, pen and paper, writes a list, said get get me this, and I'll be back tomorrow after work to build this cradle. So we rent a uh like a Home Depot truck or something. We needed all these four by sixes and plywood and bolts, and like how and they let it, they were nice enough they let us left they left it in the slings because they really didn't have anything going on, so we were able to leave the boat in the slings until the next day. We got I think we had two days in the slings, and uh man, him and he brought this helper uh and man, they built the most beautiful cradle in three hours, just like perfect. And it was sweet because we had the slings, so we knew where the slings needed to go. Uh-huh. We spray painted on the so when we went to haul out at the at the barge line barge company, I barged it over. Um we just like put the slings right where it was. They picked it out of the water, fit perfectly in the cradle, like no pinching on the slings, no nothing. Just it was just so sweet to have it in the in the in the slings as we built the cradle and everything. Yeah, but yeah, that worked out just like I mean, just funny how this everything just was like clockwork. Like everything we did over there was just clockwork.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

So this guy builds the cradle. How how far? So, how do you get the cradle to the barge lines? Or was he building the colour?

SPEAKER_05 30:12

We rented a big flatbed when we bought the lumber. Okay, we kept that for a day and we put it on the flatbed and hauled it over.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Okay, hauled it over and then brought the boat over. They just lifted it up, set it on the barge, and and they just barged it to Seattle.

SPEAKER_05 30:24

They barge it all the way to Haynes. Well, we barged it to Seattle and then we drove it up from Seattle. Okay. Yep. Parker went with us on that trip too.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

So Nancy let Parker go with you twice.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

I know it. She hadn't learned her lesson yet, I guess. Yeah. So that was that was cool.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

I I remember how from from when you got to Hawaii to when the barges loaded on the dock or when the boats loaded on the barge ready to ship out, how long were you guys over there?

SPEAKER_05 30:50

We said we were in Hawaii for ten days, uh, did all that, got the uh the barge, all that stuff taken care of, came back in like three weeks, like it was timed up pretty nice with the barge, and we like three weeks later, like we were in Seattle picking it up.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Yeah, and we I mean that was kind of still ten days. You're going over there, you're gonna look at a boat, gotta do some fixing, got it all. That's pretty quick turnaround.

SPEAKER_05 31:17

It it was. It was just like I couldn't believe how like everything was just like I mean, we didn't waste any time finding any like we got there, there was somebody at the boat, we walked in the boat, we'd within a day we had the boat fixed, we took it out for a cruise, we were able to get right on the slings, you know. We found a guy to put it build a cradle within a day, like just like everything just fell right. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And uh like, wow, that was about that was a good amount of time. Like, we got a lot done in ten days. And now you've been fishing that for what, 19, 20 years? Yeah, 20. Let's see, I got it in might have got it in 2000. Not too the 2007 is when I first so yeah, this will be next year, will be the 20th season.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

That was a good purchase. It was a great purchase for$85,000. Holy cow.

SPEAKER_05 32:00

$75, I offered him$75,000. Oh, you offered him$75 to you? I felt like after in hindsight, I probably could offered him$65, but I was like, God, what did I why did I even uh dicker with it, you know? Like crazy. Yeah, just crazy. And all that just worked like so. My dad knew this banker at Wells Fargo that I don't know how I knew him, like worked for Keywitter. So there were some connection with Keywit. He's like, Oh yeah, he got me a line business line of credit for a hundred thousand bucks. So I had the money, and you know, like in this like we drove up to Anchorage and like went into the Wells Fargo, signed papers, and then went and jumped on the plane. Like it was all just like tink, tink, tink, tink, tink. It's crazy. Then he happened to know the guy. I mean, he's like worked all over the state of Alaska for everybody. And and he like happened to know the guy that was worked at the barge company and got us like a crazy deal on the shipping. It was like 20,000 bucks, and those quotes I was getting before were like 60 grand, you know, and 40 grand, and then he's like, Oh, I can I can get you a better deal than that. Like, yeah, they knew that I don't know, I don't know if he necessarily like knew him, but they had lots of connections, you know, like they knew lots of people, but it was just like God talk about lucky, man.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

And so now fast forward to what you were talking about before, you realized pretty soon that you couldn't just make it on gill netting. Yeah, I so how soon was it before you started? So if you had the boat in 2007 was your first season, because the things I know you've done, you've been tripping, crabbing, dungeoness crab, tanner crab, halibut fishing.

SPEAKER_05 33:34

So I actually bought I think I I figured that out before I got my boat. Like I was thinking, like, man, I'd like Gillnet sheet season's kind of short, it's only whatever, four four months at the most. Yep. Uh I didn't really want to go work a job. I don't, I mean, I'd I like fishing, so I was like, if I'm gonna make a real living out this, I'm gonna have to get diversified. So I bought a shrimp permit from Dwight Downer in 2004, and I bought a troll permit uh in 2004. So I must have made some money in 2004, I guess. Because I was able to buy cat pay cash for those things. So yeah, I went I went shrimping on the Tiffany Lee the first year, not knowing what the heck I'm doing. I think Levi Thompson was my deck in. We went down to Tannekey, we did okay there, and then we went all the way down to Ketchcan that year on the Tiffany Lee with like 140 pots in line and like I'm like what a dip. That's just stupid.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Like And was this was this early shrimp, like May or was this October? Middle of October. Middle of October, you're going to Ketchcam.

SPEAKER_05 34:35

Yeah. And we fished down there until I think I I fished for like a month and a half. We weren't making much money. We were, you know, we were just not when we were making enough money to whatever we were doing, you know. We'd it was nasty weather down there. I just you'd we were started in like the north arm of Beam Canal and we fished a few spots. Chris Morton, I was supposed to follow Chris Morton, and I didn't. I should have followed him because he went down there. He actually caught some shrimp. He went to this one Cassand Bay and like did really well for he like he just caught a bunch of these little openings that were like kind of closing because we would fish Tannekey first and then he just made it, he just went right for catch can. So I went to Icy Straits and fished for a while and we didn't do much there, so we said, oh, we better go to Catch Can. And I was fishing spots that Chris had already fished. And I think he quit. He would this if there wasn't that many to get like a hundred pounds a day. So we'd go out for three days, get three hundred pounds, come in, send them to a guy in Juneau, Horst Seafoods, or we'd send them to 10th and M Seafoods some up in Anchorage. And uh I mean we were getting like making like two grand every three days or three days, but like we'd the weather was so bad down there, like the storms would come through. It's totally different than here, because you gotta go into Beam Canal was okay, but then we started fishing south, like down by Carolina and stuff, and it was just sketchy, like just big ocean swells and it's like waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for weather, and it became like this is stupid, like so we just quit and came home. But it was fun. It was it I it was a good uh the shrimping was fun, I really liked it. And then so anyway, then I I bought this troll permit, never ever used it. I think I had it for 10 years or something. But um when I got the Kaleylani, I uh kind of Kenny Waldo dabbled in crabbing for a while and uh he still had a permit when I got the Kaleylani and so I go, hey, why don't you sell me that permit in your pots and why don't you wanna you wanna finance this? And and he's like sure, why not? So we came up with an agreement and uh he gave me like three years to pay. I think he I can't remember what I paid like 45,000 bucks for a 150 permit and like 170 pots. It was a good deal. They had really nice really nice pots uh and finance, like once again, just nice, kinda lucky. Didn't have to go to the bank, just kinda the right spot at the right time. So did that and uh that was I and so that that I quit shrimping pretty much because they could only really do one or the other at that point. Unless you did like you could do it on either like I did one one fall I did do both. I shrimped on the Tiffany Lee and crabbed on the Kaylee Lani, and that was I don't know if that was lucrative or not, but it was it was fine. I mean it it was doable and making a little bit of money at both, but so then I decided I like this crabbing thing and uh I need to get a bigger permit. So I kind of just slowly I think probably 2011, I sold my troll permit, which I bought for 24,000 and ended up selling for like 41,000, like the highest it's been and timed that right. And bought a 225 dungeon card and had that for a while, and then in 2020 I ended up buying uh this was kind of sketchy too, I agreed to buy this 300 dungeon card for like 80,000 bucks in the spring of 2020, like as COVID was all shit was hitting the fan. Like I'm going like, oh my god, am I what am I doing? Doing the right thing, like I don't know. Whatever, I'm gonna do it. So I did it. And man, that year I s we only got a dollar seventy-five for crab, but there was so many crab that year. It was just there was crab everywhere. Like crab, you go set pots in spots that we were catching ten a pot, and you would catch nothing but sea urchins and starfish right now. Yeah, like it was just they were just everywhere, and I I don't know why that never like I see I feel like other places in Southeast like are much more predictable. Like that's gonna happen way more often than it happens here, but it was a pretty pretty good feeling after you know with the uncertainty of whatever was going on to go, like just I mean, it was just ridiculous. It wasn't to make that bet and have it pay off that quickly. And there was no salmon, like the salmon, there was zero salmon that year. Yeah, like it nobody like uh the high line gill netter made like 40,000 bucks, 50,000 bucks. Yep, yeah. It was actually really fun. I honestly enjoyed that 2020 was one of my favorite years, I think, of my entire life because my family all went fishing with me. Okay, like we'd go gill netting, we knew we weren't gonna catch anything, yeah. But we'd we'd go out Sunday morning, we'd go down to Sherman, and we'd fish for you know, like fish for Sunday, go and anchor up, have dinner, come out. I'd get up early, and I still got pictures of Lucas, like he's probably like three years old, and he was so excited to be like he was up at 4 30 in the morning, you know, as I'm going out, set I'm setting the net, and uh and he's up and he's got his life jacket on and he's just wants should be asleep and trying to smile. And I like that kind of new man. This kid likes to fish, holy cow. But uh we'd I mean we'd just we'd wouldn't catch much, we'd catch enough for bait, and I'd go, you know, we'd make, you know, I think the biggest opening we had, we might have made. We actually caught a few fish one week there, maybe like we made like six or seven thousand bucks, which was huge for that year. And uh, but then we'd go haul crab pots as like the just the family, me and Lexi and uh all the Charlie, Lorelai, Lucas, and they all could help and all do their own thing. And we were catching so many crabs, like still my best pot ever is with Lexi. We had a 43 and a 42 back to back. Nice. And uh this one spot it was Lexi and and my my my kids. It was it was still pretty cool. Yeah, pretty fun.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

So throughout that, as because now you've got a a tanner permit also, correct? I don't know. You don't have it, but you go fishing with Joel.

SPEAKER_05 40:45

Joel Pasquin.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

He's got a tanner and he has a king crab permit.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

And yeah. And then you're also fishing halibut. Now are you fishing, do you have any quota or are you bringing people on that you're helping fish their quota? I have some.

SPEAKER_05 40:59

Uh we bought I bought Lexi bought some a couple years ago. But that was the other thing in 2004. So like that year, I think my dad went out on the Tiffany Lee halibut fishing with Brad and Leroy Rowan, and they didn't get all the halibut they needed to, and then he was going to work for Kiwit. So he just signed his quota over to me. I didn't know a thing about halibut fishing. I went like three times maybe with like I went with my Uncle Steven on a derby and uh my dad on maybe two derbies, you know, just kind of goofing around. I didn't I didn't know anything about it. So anyway, he's like, Oh yeah, you you can do it. Like I I don't have time, I'm not gonna have time to do it, so I'll sign it over to you. So me and Brad go out later like a few weeks later on the spring, that spring. And uh I mean I'm I I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like the deck hand, right? Brad's the captain and he's trying to haul the gear. And I'm like, man, this ain't working. Brad, you you come stand over here, I'll haul the gear. And just because I mean I drove handled the boat a lot more than he had, but anyway. And I was like, it just was like that is my like probably my favorite fishery is halibut. It just just fell in love with it. Like it's kinda like trap to me, it's like trapping, right? Like you go set traps out and it's like every trap could be like a Christmas present. Like you never know what you're gonna get. You might get nothing, but man, you might have a Wolverine and a one and a half or something, you know, you never know. It's like halibut fishing the same way. It's like hook after hook, you never know, and all of a sudden you could be getting a hundred hooks, nothing, nothing, nothing. All of a sudden you get a 350 pounder, you know. Like, so it just I I love halibut fishing, and so I realized that I loved halibut fishing after that trip. Um, and so all these other guys, so I'd and I got pretty good at it pretty fast. So uh me and Brad would go out, and we always thought we had to be the first ones out. I remember one year we went, probably maybe the next year, even after that, or the year after that, it was open on like the 28th of February. And I'm just like, and we're like, we gotta be out there. So we go out there and it's so nasty. We can't fish anywhere we want to fish, and we're fishing like in South Pass, where it's we're just blowing like 50 out of the north or something, it's just freezing cold. We get some sets out, we don't catch anything, and we proceed to just like sit on there. There's like this old piling in Willoughby Cove on the on Lemishire Island, and we just sit there for like two days straight. Like, what are we doing? Like, we finally weather gets a little bit nicer, make a few more sets, we get like a thousand pounds of fish. So it's just like we're stupid. Like we go to Huna Cell and then we look at the forecasts, and it's like ten days of north wind. So we just we just flew home, but just like the dumb stuff, like you just think, oh yeah, we gotta be the first ones out there to get the best price. And and some years it works out, but just like we didn't have a clear what we were doing. Like I I just assumed I learned a lot just like weather and tides and really halibut fishing. I learned a lot about like what's doable and what's not compared to like gill netting almost like a little bit of rough weather. Now that I got a big boat and if the way the wind's blowing, guess what? I'm gonna be one of the only ones out there. So halibut fishing it's no fun fishing in rough weather. Just no fun no it's not miserable. But yeah so I I got pretty good at it. I figured out you know some sets. I figured out uh who knew what the heck they were doing, who didn't know what the heck they were doing. I figured this old guy uh Ernie Ernie Cohey's on a John Kay he fished out there in cross sound a lot and that's where we would kind of go always to cross sound and um just because it's like I don't know I don't know why just because there's always fish out there it seemed like in the early part of the year before you know they're not in around Adolphus or inside waters there's always fish in cross sound. But I just felt like when I saw him and I saw his buoys and my buoys close together I always felt like I was doing something right. Because he'd fished he knew like cross sound like the back of his hand man like he fished out there for forever and he had all these little weird sets you know little like 50 hook sets and he just was like a master of that stuff out there. So I figured I felt like if I'm somewhere where he is doing good. Doing it doing it right. So then like all I just ended up fishing like I got uh trying to think who the first person I took besides so we we were doing ours and we had a lot of poundage back then. Like the quota was really high. I think we were doing like 1500 pounds between or 1400 pounds between Brad and us. And now I think we have between the two of us well I bought a little bit but I think we'd probably have like 3500 pounds or maybe not even thirty like maybe three thousand pounds.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

So to to explain that to people that don't know the system you've got a limited entry for Hal but yeah IFQ system. It's a it's a what? IFQ system IFQ individual fishing quota and so you've got a number and then but each year it gets adjusted based on what they think the population is right?

SPEAKER_05 46:10

Yeah they do some test fishing they do some like I think catch pre-unit effort analysis and this and that and then they decide what the biomasses are and dah dah dah and then so of the amount catchable you have a certain percentage and so that changes each year.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

But on the last several years for what last 10 15 years it's gone on a downward slide?

SPEAKER_05 46:30

Yeah we had a like it was I would say uh it was going down like uh we only the last probably four years it's gone down but before that it was actually creeping up for a while but then they took like a couple pretty big cuts you know and then like it's just crazy to me how like some of the like I remember getting like a 25 or 28% raise one year. And it's just like how is that even like feasible?

Fish Politics Allocation And Hatchery Worries

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Or like what well like where do you come up with this like the year before it's like you don't get anything and then you think there's 28% more fish to catch based I don't it just makes it make no sense to me like the reason the reason I was asking that and the wh the way I wanted to set this up because with the different fisheries that you've been in over the years and I think you've been on the Lyn can upper Lynn Canal Fish and Game Advisory Board and are there's a state was there a Southeast board that you brought up for fishing board for Northern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association. And then um were you on USAG? No never never was on USAG I went to a few other meetings you know maybe thinking about but I the politics is just because that's that's one of the things is the the you and I were talking about this the other day some of the politics in fishing and Ike with with your depth of experience because you start at eight yeah and so you've got nearly 40 years of commercial fishing under your belt right now you've been you've multiple species where do you think we're at I mean is are you are your kids going to be able to get do you think they're gonna have a chance to get into commercial fishing if they want to and be able to have the livelihood that you did you have right now going forward?

SPEAKER_05 48:15

I I think so I I really do I really do yeah uh I feel like the halibut fishery uh like the only year I really noticed it like two years ago it was like I'm fairly used to like going out on like a trip and I have a goal for poundage. And up to two years ago I'd never really went out on a trip and not got that goal of poundage. Two years ago it just became apparently obvious that there was and I don't know for whatever reason but the like trips were way harder and we weren't getting what we needed or there was killer whales or whatever. But last year was better like I trips were went way way better like significantly better. Like last fall I had some of the best fishing I've ever had almost like the last two trips we went on uh we fished like literally three days and got like 13,000 pounds and it was just like easy and that was like I and big beautiful fish too like not like so that was strange but so I I don't know I I think they just are where they are man. I don't think anybody I think it's hard for it's hard for scientists to really predict what's really happening with a halibut.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

I'd what what do you what do you be across the species because right now you've got Dungeness crab on your on your own permits your fish and halibut dungeness crab and salmon you know off of those what what do you see the challenges going forward for maintaining that biomass?

SPEAKER_05 49:52

I think the salmon I mean I I don't know I think I think ADF and G does a decent job of the salmon stuff some of the stuff I don't agree with but I think they're on the side of caution they are on the side of caution a lot. I think I think the salmon are going to be fine. I think they're resilient I don't think uh I mean we are at the end of like every like we it's amazing that we catch as much as we do or like these rivers sustain themselves to be honest quite kind of just being like we're at the end of the food chain like and there's years where everybody gets to hit them before we get them here. I know it and that one like I remember the one year when we had that crazy soccer year in uh Chilkut uh I can't remember if that was 2020 or 2021. I think it was 2021 had to be 2021. But I remember going up during the fair at Chilkut and I'd never seen it in my life like never seen this in my life but the sock eyes looked like hooligans in the river. Like I went up there like drove me and Lucas drove up there and we were up there and we're like I'm like oh my god like I got out of my truck right below the weir and I walked down the bank and I literally could have grabbed my 50 sock eyes with my hands like my subsistence limit just like this I was picking them up going like look at this and the guy in the weir is yelling at me open the gate man let them these things through but yeah that was like one of those years I think they got like 8000 in three days like that it was like record day after record day after record day but and for what reason like who knows like why like why did all those fish come back and we had some crazy like yeah because the parent year on that wasn't particularly I don't think it was all that crazy big and but we had like that year was really good the next year was really good and then we had a kind of a bummer year and then like the year after that like 24 was really good like some of the craziest sockai fish and like just like especially just up like around town. Like I think in we kind of missed a lot of them on the 2021 run. Just like the the fishing part of it they they a lot of them got in the river. We did okay but the next year I mean there was somewhere out here like from battery point to loot to mouth of Lutec where somebody was getting a hundred socky's in their net every day all day didn't at some point like there was fish like crazy. So I mean like that just it's just hard to I like I don't see why it wouldn't why wouldn't it keep keep going on I mean I I don't know I'd I don't think we overfish them we definitely don't I don't think like the gill net fleet definitely doesn't get too much opportunity at them.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

No I don't I don't think I think like you were talking about before we're we're kind of at the end of the the food chain on the it is I think a lot of people get a hit on those before we do and and the the reason I and that's kind of the reason I was asking the question is like our I me personally I would rather see them manage that to protect the let more get in the river yeah before they let some of these other places take a hit on them. Yep because I'm I'm with you I want I want a higher caution level yeah let's make sure we get as many into the river as we can so we've got a good escapement for four years five years.

SPEAKER_05 52:58

Yeah and I think the management stuff they have going on now I really think like like the like we get a fish in 15A like should Sherman to Elder Rock to two miles off the beach to from Sherman to Elder Rock tiny little stamp tiny little area in two days I don't think we could ever do enough damage in that to do any justice. That could have played a part in it too like we're all these like you can't even fish out Little Island or any of those you know spots where like sometimes you catch a lot of saw guys but you know low amount of days low amount of area could have contributed definitely contributed to some of that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

The other part too is I'm thinking of this when I was talking to Bill Thomas who's hot because used to have what 125 gild net permits in town in the 80s and now we got what 35 something 40 yeah something but there there's and then there's all this pressure at the for our fall season for coho and stuff and I I don't know if if we didn't have the chum fishery the hatchery fish um would a lot of these guys still be able to sustain being a commercial fisherman with the number of soccer that are coming. There weren't been many gill netters at all. Yeah if it wasn't for hatchery chums so that that's kind of why I'm thinking of this is there's still fish out there there's still fish returning and the numbers in the river are fairly strong yeah but based on the amount that used to be caught by the gill net fleet and what's being caught now that level is down considerably I would I would venture to guess. Yeah but I just you wonder who's catching them all.

SPEAKER_05 54:43

Like that's that's that's the that's the thing that makes me nervous because I wish I wish they had more information so we knew. I know it like where do all these sock eyes go like why all of a sudden like because that year when there was like that giant run I was fit we were fishing at Sherman a lot and usually that like you would think that that would be an indication of man there's a bunch of fish you guys would be hammering them at Sherman. We did not see those fish like all of a sudden they're just there and up there like they went by us. Yeah were they just deep or were they out in the snow? But it was that was wild really wild. And then a couple years ago we had a pretty good run too and the same thing like we just weren't seeing them at Sherman.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

We're not seeing them at Sherman like you said Sherman's usually a pretty good indicator yeah I mean if you what's coming up into the river.

SPEAKER_05 55:31

Exactly yeah because I don't think we had any idea like it was yeah that was that was the cool one of the coolest things I ever saw was driving up there and just being like what the heck man I mean or dip be dip netting Mike hooligan just the dip nets it was just nothing but black little black back swimming there like I mean there were so many of them so many of them.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

That's amazing when you get to see that isn't it just walk across them almost.

SPEAKER_05 55:56

Yeah and I think I think I texted our biologist and I go man you need to open this thing up like right then I call I think it was like a f Thursday or something. You need to open this tomorrow. And they oh we're just gonna wait till Sunday and I think it went like I think they got 90,000 fish in the next three days through I mean not that we would have I mean a lot of those were already in the river obviously like I mean there who knows how many was just from you know the in that line where you're not allowed to fish but it was just from the weird weird out of the bridge. Oh yeah there was probably there's probably already a hundred thousand fish in there so it was it was nuts but yeah I don't know I don't I I feel like uh uh no the the chums and cohes I don't I don't there's not really these guys don't fall fish that much anymore there's no effort on those I don't think and most of all the sand fishing's done by then I mean they might catch them like in District 4 they could potentially catch them down there some chums but who knows where they go. Nobody knows which where where they go or like any even any hint of like there's there's not like do they go north when they go out to cross sound or they do they go out by Cape Omni or which where where do they migrate to like it it's so it's hard to hard to manage and I I don't I feel like fishing game doesn't want to know a lot of like the stuff that the same fleet is catching. Yeah. They don't want to know the answer to a lot of those questions.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Yeah they could they could know the answer to a lot of those questions but they don't want to know the answer to a lot of those questions. Yeah it would it would make their job more difficult very because of political pressure.

SPEAKER_05 57:27

Exponentially which is yeah which is basically after being on the answer board for a while like my God this is just like you guys they don't they they just I mean I I get they're like advocating for gear groups but like they go back to the allocation thing. The allocation thing is the big thing and the fishing like they did that this allocation plan back before there was any really amount of hatchery fish. You know like and they have not changed it. Have not went and dived into it. Because I mean a lot of the places we could fish gill netters we can only fish on like like we're terminal harvest like for the most part. Like we are we are limited to terminal harvest so I think if they dove into that allocation plan it would be bad for everybody else but maybe not who knows but I I just think that it uh it's way outdated needs to be some that kind of thing needs to be looked into a little bit more. But that's the politics I just hated the politics of it like like my God you guys are really going to do this to this gear group because of the Alec like they just scream it and it and it resonates through all the in like so at the interlers, sainters, kill netters and then there's interested people like sport fishing groups, just interested persons, like city people, just like all kinds of different stuff. Native organization uh but man they just do that allocation work just like is like the it wins every time for the most part. It's like just throw that out there it's like oh this is stupid you go you guys know this is the wrong thing to do but you just you don't care. Whatever. And that the other thing too is like it's a waste of my I felt like it was becoming a waste of my time because we get Ensarot makes all these fish like an ungodly amount of fish. The only place we're guarante Gillnet group is guaranteed a chance at is deep inlet.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

What the only it's the only opportunity that's the only one you guys have.

SPEAKER_05 59:31

Yeah. Dang. You know the big thing was we're supposed to get into Southeast coat we have gotten in there but then they had kicked us out. Now they do uh cost recoveries like so and Soral with the price of chums you know they're and that and the other thing that's the other thing too they're like ramping up all this like what if this all crashes like I'm thinking like they always want to do these more projects more projects more projects like our budget's just getting bigger and bigger and bigger and the price of fish was crazy. I think at some point they were getting like two some two two two dollars a pound for chums cost recovery and stuff like just a crazy amount and you know money was not an issue man we're putting money in here we're forward funding this we're everybody's getting big bonuses and I'm just going like well what if and then man the price crashes yeah and now they they they're almost it's almost like like we're just doing all this so you know we can pay your guys' salary and I mean granted they they made a lot of fish for a lot of people but I just don't it's hard to see the crash coming but it's also not hard to see the crash coming because the crash has happened the the price it's not like the price stays at a buck a pound right we've barely ever we got a buck a pound maybe three times in my life you know like and when this all happened that this is I think where might really have screwed Insera and all the hatcheries uh is the processors saw that oh man we don't have to pay they need us more than we need them yeah they they need us to buy their fish like they without us they they haven't they have nothing they don't have any program so they're never I don't think the processors will ever pay the ungodly amount that they're paying for those guaranteed contracts like they did and I think they don't have there's no need for them to they don't have to they don't have to I don't I don't think we'll ever see the this crazy like double grounds price stuff you know like they were you know it was I mean it's frustrating as a fisherman when you know they're getting this price and you're like why yeah why do they get twice for us we're paying our three percent into this and like but yeah it's it's a it's kind of a mess I feel like you know they're they're in a bad way. They you know DIPAC was in a bad way or Ensira was in a bad way DIPEC helped them out uh DIPAC got in a bad way Ensera helped bail them out so they kind of go back and forth but like I don't know unless the if the price which I think we're gonna have a really good price this year it'll that'll help but it needs to stay at that price and they need to they need to just quit making all these projects I think. Like enough's enough like I th I think it's just like if you keep if you keep throwing more and more fry out in the ocean at what point do you reach a and they have some numbers where it's was like I can't remember it was like of the like the the hatchery number of fry versus the number of natural fries like an in like almost an insignificant like what's insignificant though. Like we don't know how delicate the you know the ocean is I guess you know and the how easy you could maybe it's like in the big picture but like you know what if all these fries go to one spot and then like da da da like who knows what could happen but enough's enough like it's like God almighty it's like I don't even know what it's like but it was just like enough for me to be like I want no more I don't want any more part of this like no part of it. It was fun Danny party got me talked into it it was fun when he was on there he he was very knowledgeable. He knew all the he's like a professional on there professional politician on there. It was it was pretty he's like say this dude like he was coaching me. What else you got I think he was coaching me to like kind of fill his role when he but I was like yeah Dan that's not that's that's not my role I'm I don't want to be about yeah he was vice he was vice president and he was really smart he was he really knew the ins and outs of it um I would be interesting to see if he would have stayed in there I think he he held him accountable I think he did a really good job so I mean I don't know they all they always wanted to partner with this little Port Walter which is like a federal and just like God they had such a want for it and it was just like they just want you because they need the funding. Like they like so they can do their whatever research they're doing they just like they're just using us like using Insara and we're think like you know some saneers and trollers think they're gonna get a few more fish here somewhere and we're gonna get our bank for a buck and it's not gonna happen. You know they always were you know there and then they had this other the the king salmon thing was always one thing that would always drive me crazy too like they're always wanting the trollers are always wanting to make kings and there was this Keda River I don't can't remember exactly where it is I think it's I'm I'm not sure exactly where it is somewhere like south like maybe on the outside of Coopernop or somewhere somewhere down that way. I'm not sure I don't know exactly but the big thing was like so these kings they come back they go out when they're one they go out like they hatch and they go right to the ocean not like most of the kings stay in the river for a year. For a year yep so these ones go out and then they come back and they're bigger supposedly you know and they're all fired up about this stuff. You know there's like oh yeah these are 30 pound fish and blah blah blah blah blah 30 pounds after one year no like when they come back they're you know they're big fish when they return and so I'm just going like my well then leave the things alone like let them do what they do. Like we've proved that we are suck at anything we do touch a king salmon river what happens to it it ends up in a disaster and then so there's this guy there you know uh from one of the hatcheries that they had done a few some of the Keda River stuff and I'm going like so how big are these fish coming back? Like are they like just like these big oh they're you know 10 12 pounds fish I'm like just like so what's the benefit here? Like they're not any bigger uh it's one of the you know the last rivers that is doing well we think and like God almighty like and that the other thing that drove me crazy is they like do you have any regard for like just the well being of something that's fine like leave it alone. Leave it alone. Leave it alone stories of them taking king salmon out of our valley you know what a disaster that had been. Yep.

Sports Childhood And Competitive Drive

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

Yeah that's how every time we tell every time people talk About king salmon, it that always irks me. I know. 'Cause it a lot of the hatcher programs started by uh taking them out of the the big boulder and tahini. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, yeah, just leave him alone. Like Yeah, and our our king salmon's suck for decades because of it. Well at least that's one one part of it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So let's let's venture off fishing for a little bit. Okay. We're gonna go back to your childhood. You talked a little bit about pitching in Little League. Um because you were I think you followed in your dad's footsteps and you were, in my opinion, one of the top athletes to come out of Haynes. Because you you kind of excelled at whatever sport you did. Because you you you're really good at baseball, you're really good at swimming, really good basketball player. Yeah. All that and yeah, I mean, and and uh and I think uh you had a skill level with all of those, but there's also just watching you and coaching you, you just you were always full speed all the time, and you just never slacked off on that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

Yeah. How was that coming, was that just a genetic thing? Was that pushing from your parents? I don't know. Where did that where did that come from to just keep pushing and pushing?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:19

I don't think it ever had anything to do with any of my like my parents never really, like they it just it was what it was. I don't know, just something. I don't know. I just think like hard work or like I mean why am I gonna do something if I'm not gonna do it like do it well or like do it to the best of my ability? Like I don't know. I don't know where that came from. I have no idea. Because it just seems like no matter like Rasha showed me a picture of my of me the other day. Uh, we were I was having coffee with uh Art Woodard at the Mountain Market, and Rasha just goes, Oh, did you see that picture I sent you? I said, Oh no, I don't know if I did. And then she showed it to me, and it's me as just this chubby little kid when I was, I don't know, it's probably eight years old. Like the Haynes Dolphins. She was like wondering, figuring out where the Haynes Dolphins originated from or whatever. Uh-huh. And I think it was like Ellen Larson and me, and she coached me, and then I think we got Tar Heinrich to swim. Yeah. And like it just kind of took off from there. But like, but it was like me, this this little fat kid, like, I mean, like, I was just chubby as heck, man. I don't know why I was fast. But me, I remember me and Robbie Jarville was the same way. Like, me and him were both like we were definitely the chubbiest kids. We were definitely the two fastest kids, too. Like, we kicked everybody's butts.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:33

I don't know what that was, but yeah, because that was that was per pretty much the start of any competitive swimming by kids in Aynes.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:40

I think so. I think it was the first year we had a competitive swim team, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:43

So that was that was pretty fun. And uh yeah, I had lucky I had good coaches, and I think I the coaches were like that was like the first competitive thing I ever did was swimming. Uh-huh. And uh you did little league first, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:56

Well, uh when was Little League started before that? Or was it around the same time they started?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:02

The first time I played Little League was in Arizona when we we lived in Arizona for a year. And I played Little League down there. And so I guess I don't know if I swam before that or not. Yeah, that's a good question. That was third grade, so how old was I? Ten? No, nine, probably. Yeah. I was probably s I don't know if I was swimming there or not. I might as oh I did. I s I was swimming here before I went. I swam in 120. I swam down there too. Yeah. So yeah, I was swimming here before I did that. So yeah. That was the first competitive thing I did with swimming. But yeah, I had good coaches. I had all kinds of crazy coach. I had uh Miss Larson was awesome, and then her sister, Jennifer Black, was awesome. And then I had this lady, Carolyn, uh god dang it, I can't remember her last name. But she was like on the Canadian rowing team or something. Like just this she was she and she looked like a swimmer, like of all of them. She was like I I feel like she was like six foot one or something. But she was just really cool and I mean all my coach swim coaches were awesome. Like they knew how to push you, I think. I mean, I guess I'm assuming that's where I got it from. I don't know. It just like they made working hard fun and easy, I guess. I don't know. But I had good coaches and yeah, I don't know. I just was I don't know why I was good at swimming, but I sure didn't look like I should be good at swimming.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:21

So what what were your what were your what were the events you that you normally did in swimming?

SPEAKER_05 1:10:25

Oh man, we could do tons of events. I did like every event possible. Like I did fifty, a hundred breaststroke or backstroke, breaststroke, freestyle. I hated the butterfly. I didn't I didn't do that. I didn't do like the 50 or 100 butterfly. I do the IMs. Um I think when I was 10 maybe I'd I qu I'd quit when I was probably ten. I want to say maybe eleven or twelve. But I qualified last year I did it. I think I went to Junior Olympics. Uh or it was in Juneau actually. So did qualified for Junior Olympics in like the weirdest events, like the 100 backstroke, which I I hated the backstroke, but I was probably my best stroke. Um the 200 IM and the 200 free style. I think I qualified in four, and I got like second, third, and fourth. I got second in the 2003, third in the 100 IM, and fourth in the 100 backstroke or something. That was I mean that was and then I quit.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

So what why you don't know why you quit? You just decided you didn't want to do the swimming in the world.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:32

I think I just got in in other sports. In other sports. Then, you know, like uh like sixth grade. I I think Frank Shaw was my coach probably, or was coaching, or we weren't even allowed to play, but Frank let me play with the seventh and eighth grade team. So that was fun. Uh you did you did Alex Hoop Shoot too, didn't you? And did the hoop shoot, yeah. Yeah. Went to nationals in that. Yeah. Where were where were nationals at? In Indianapolis. My grandpa Cliff went with us. My grandma Carrie was there. She was from back there, and uh went to Portland. Didn't shoot well, somehow won. Like I think I shot 22 out of everybody shot like terrible. Yeah. And shot 22 out of 25, but won somehow. And then went to Nationals. And that was cool. We went to the so they they did all kinds of cool stuff for us. We went to like the Indianapolis 500 track and got to do a lap around that. And then they took us to a Boston Celtics game, an Indiana Pacers game. Like in the this was like 89 or something. Like it was it was they were it was pretty competitive, like Larry Bird, McKevin McHale, me and this kid from Kentucky. I think his name was Brian. He's a lefty, really nice kid. I wish he he got second. Him and this other kid from Nebraska got in a shootoff and they hit like 50. The Nebraska kid hit 50 out of 50, and the Kentucky kid made 49 out of 50. But 49 out of 50 gets second. Yeah. But anyway, so we were at this game, and they we were all sitting up in these not very good seats, and me and him and maybe one other kid, we like, let's go. And I don't know who was watching us, like we're like eighth, seventh grade or eighth grade, and we're like roaming around the stadium, and we get down and we get right in the tunnel where the Celtics are going in.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:25

And I can't remember it was halftime or like before the game, but I think it was halftime. And we high-fived every single one of them, Larry Bird, Kevin McKinnon, Albert Parrish, Dennis Johnson, you name it, like all of them. The whole crew. The whole crew gave us high fives going into the locker room. Sweet. That was pretty cool. That was really cool. Um, I mean, just how that was so cool. Like, what are the odds that we would get down there and they'd actually hasn't thrown you out of the stadium? Yeah, we were like hanging over and they all just because they were going going into the locker room. High-fived us.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:03

Yeah. So is that kind of was the free throw studio is that kind of what got you into the love of basketball, just being able to compete at that?

SPEAKER_05 1:14:12

I don't think at all. I think uh I don't even know. I just because you had a pretty solid group, you know, and psycho basketball player when I was like I was air dribbling basketballs around when I was a little kid. Like eerily reminds me of my youngest child, like doing all this weird, like he's doing stuff and like walks around like town, like shooting the ball, you know. It's like, what's wrong with that kid, you know? Uh but just like I'm I mean, I remember like air dribbling, you know, like or my mom telling me what I was doing and doing all this stuff. I I always liked basketball, I guess. I just you don't get to really play it organized until although I do remember like I think Don uh Nash brought us down to a tournament when I was in we were in fourth grade or something. He brought he Don did a lot of a lot of I mean he was like a big advocate for kids. And I think he took us to like I don't know, we were in third or fourth grade, fourth grade must have been fourth grade, took us to Petersburg for a tournament.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:06

Fourth grade, you went to Petersburg? Or something like fourth and fifth grade.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:09

Yeah, we played against the youngs. Yeah. The youngs were there, you know, and they beat us in the state championship game. So I think we beat them down there though. So they finally got the revenge. They got the revenge, yeah, we much better revenge. Yeah. But yeah, played them there. Then we uh went and you know, then they took us to uh Wrangle. That's when Jason Shaw was like one the one year he like was around, that was fun to play with him. Uh I think we actually won that tournament. That was and I beat beat the young then, but then they man, they they won the one game that the one game that you want back?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:43

Oh man. Whatever. So I so you guys had a pretty good core.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:51

And I think that's where the love of basketball came from, was like having all these buddies who I mean that that's all we we'd go to some court every like uh we had Jones's court, which was really cool. Off of union. Yep. Um Cry Miller had a court over there. I'd go down there a lot and shoot around.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:11

Uh yeah, because you guys are living on uh uh small tracks.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:15

Yeah, so yeah, so High Miller's court was real close one for you. Really tiny one, but still it's any court anywhere to shoot around. We play on the you know the outside court over here a lot, the the where the old middle school was. Yep. Played a lot there, but just like you know, all your all your buddies are it's like every day in the summer, like so who is that main core?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:34

You and Andrew Frisky, Andrew, Danny Pardee, Danny, Carl, Link Horse, yeah, Link Fanon.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:39

Link fannons were always like they were they were always fun, they were so competitive and talked so much trash that you know Yeah, you're probably playing with all of them. Oh yeah, Danny Fisher, you know, the Nashes. Yeah. Just every lots of lots of basketball at that outdoor courts for the little kids. I think that was just the this like what else is there to do? Mm-hmm. Or like what else do you want to do? Like, let's go play basketball.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:05

I think it's kinda cool because you go through when you've got a group like that. Yeah. And then I when I moved home, it was before your junior year, and so I watched your junior and senior years of basketball.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:17

Well, I used to play with you guys up at uh Jones's Court. Jones's Court, yeah. Stan Jones' Court. Oh yeah. Carl and Kurt and you and uh God, who else would play? Jason Ramsey. Ramsey would probably be there, Ben Bruce would be up there. Yeah, played up there quite a bit too.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:34

Yeah, me and Carl used to go over there all the time. Played just beat up on each other playing one-on-one.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:40

Yeah, I'd meet Jason over. Jason Ramsey would come over before they sold the house to Blackhurst. So whenever we were growing up, Jason and I'd meet there all the time and play basketball and stuff. And yeah, I remember when they first I was just little when they put that in, when they poured that and stuff, and we'd go over and play play against the Joneses for quite a bit. Yeah. Um, that was that's it was an awesome opportunity to have something like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:03

You see a lot of it, man. This this new covered court at the school. I mean, it's not new now, but like you go down there after the city. Oh, I would have loved I would have loved having that at that age. You should see the kids. I mean, it's like morning, it's like eat, breathe, sleep basketball. Like they are just out there. Every time they get a chance, it's like games going on. That's just crazy to see. I think that the basket Haynes basketball is in in good hands with all these little crazies playing.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

I mean, it's non-stop. So we'll we'll get back to that. So your senior year is the year you guys went to state, right? We went my junior and junior year. Junior and senior. Junior is the year we made it to the championship. Made it to the championship your junior year. Yep. Lost to Wrangle, but you'd beat them for the Southeast title, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:50

Yeah. Until that that game. Until that game. Yeah. Every game was close. Like I think we blew them out once. We beat him by 20 one time. Yeah. But every game was within four or five points. What happened in the championship game? It was their turn to finally win.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:06

They take it on the chin enough.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:08

Yeah. I don't know what exactly what happened. We I mean obviously we didn't play very good defense because they scored 80 points. Yeah. We scored 65 or something. Like we scored enough points to win a bath win a bass. Like most of the games we played them have not been anywhere near that level of like.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:28

Because that was kind of that's kind of the key for you guys, too, is your defense. You guys for sure. That year you guys had a deep bench and you guys were pressing everybody all over the court.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:36

Well, we weren't as deep that year. I don't feel like we were as deep that year.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:40

That was year you had Jimmy Varga, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:41

We had Varga and Jesse and Jesse McGraw. And and Andrew and Luck. Aaron. Luck was a sophomore. He played some. Link played some a little bit. Um it was pretty much Andrew, me, Carl, Jesse, Jimmy, and Aaron was like the most the most minutes. Yeah. Uh the other guys played some, but not a lot. So we were we were definitely probably that was way better on defense than we were your senior the senior year. Yeah. For whatever not that we should we should have probably been better, but we were we I mean we still pressed and stuff, but like like in a like a half court man-to-man game, we're definitely way better. Like pressing wise, whatever. Like we were probably just probably maybe better the next year when it but when it came to like guarding somebody in half court, definitely better my junior year. And we gave him let him score 84 points. It's just too much. It is. Yeah, I mean they're really good. Like I think Keith was could have walked on at Oregon State and they weren't gonna take his brother, so he said, Nah, I don't think so. Yeah. My brother can't play with me at night. I'm not having it.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:50

Which is kind of cool. Yeah, really cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:52

So, but the the the fun part for me is that that same core group that you're talking about, we brought him down to Juno and you guys won a bunch of gold medal championships. Oh yeah, super fun. That was so that I mean it's kind of that same group. Yeah, you had two of the fanons on there, you had Danny Pardee, you had Luck Dunbar, you and Andrew, Jesse McGraw. I mean, just kind of that whole group that was playing as kids here at Haynes, and you guys won. Well, I was with you guys, what did we win? Four or five?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:21

I think we won five B championships. Yeah. A few C ones, a couple masters.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:27

Couple masters. Now you're a gold medal hall of fame.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

You and Jason Schaald, Andrew, Jesse, and uh David Buss are all Hall of Famers down there. Dave was he was more my age because I think he was a year or two. 91. I think he was 90. Was he nine? Yeah, I think he was 90. I think he was two years younger than I was. So I played basketball with him and the city.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:48

They won they won a regional. They won regionals. That was great. I remember like they were. I think Archie might have been in the playing. Archie would have been playing them, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I remember me and we were with Mr. Schombra, me and Andrew were like the stat people. Yeah. So we got to go to regionals like and like take stats and watch all these games. It was so we went like multiple years. That's pretty just limited.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:11

So when we're in school, it's always eighth, eighth graders, and it depends on who your grades or whatever, yeah, that could keep stats for them for doing the radio stuff. And so my eighth grade year. I think it was me and Kurt Heinrich and Bent and Bruce did stats. We kind of rotated back and forth. But I Kurt and I both went down to regionals in Juneau. That first time I'd been to regionals and watching that and keep it going up there and keeping stats for them. But yeah, that was that was that was yeah, yeah. That was when I was like, I want to I want to be over in their seats. I want to call the games. I know it.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:43

Yeah. No, that was those were great. That was a great tournament. Like Haynes was really good. Yeah, I think they had John. Did they have John Shaw? They might have, he might have been a freshman. He could have been. I think they had uh yeah, in in Kurt Carl Heinrich, he was really good. And they had Jason Pierce, who moved here that year, I think. He lived here for like one year and he was pretty good. He's like 6'5 or 6'4 or something. But yeah, that was that was pretty pretty cool to watch that. And yeah, Dave, like he started playing with us. So he's quite a bit old, I mean not quite a bit, five years older than us, or six years older than us. Not that not that much older, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:19

No. But that was that was fun going down the old metal and kind of you just got back from there from winning another master championship.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:28

Yeah, and get watching all my kids play in the in the junior high tournaments.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:33

So I only got to see my my I coached all my oldest kids' games and just for whatever reason they happen to be like scheduled for every single one of my youngest boys' games, too. So I got the first, I saw watch the first one. I'm thinking, I'm gonna be able to watch all these games all these games. Yeah, I didn't get watch any of the any of his, but I coached all my other ones. So uh I got lots more years to coach my young ones. So it was fun.

Coaching Lessons And Building Confidence

SPEAKER_01 1:23:54

And so that that's that's kind of what I wanted to lead into with all your basketball playing. Now even before your kids were playing, you got back into coaching. You were coaching junior high, you've coaching the girls back helping coach girls' basketball team for a few years. Now you're coaching junior high again. What what's that like now going full circle where you had Don Nash and others helping you at that age, and now you're doing that not just for your kids, but for these other kids and watching them grow. Oh, it's fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:24

I I as much as I act like God, the junior high boys, that's like you gotta have a lot of patience to coach those guys, like oh my god. It is it's but it's so fun, like when they like figure it out. Like we went to a Sika tournament this year and uh just like we played so good at times, like I was just about like, oh man, all this stuff that I'm harping on them is like actually sinking in there somehow. Like you would I would have never guessed. You know, like I mean there's times where like all of a sudden we were like just like you could see like their faces like just getting after it on defense. Playing uh we played catch can the B team and Juno or Sica B team. Then we we handled I w we I wish we could have got a game against uh one of their A teams because the way we were playing we would have competed with them. Um but yeah, just fun to see like some of these kids, like I've had a couple of these kids that since sixth grade and just like these kids are like crazy athletes, like are going to be crazy athletes, crazy short attention span. You don't think anything's sinking in. And all of a sudden you're like, whoa. So that I mean that kind of stuff is like it's cool, it's cool to see that kind of stuff, you know. Uh really cool to see that and see like, man, if he if he keeps progressing, these they're like, you know, these these kids are gonna be really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:55

How do you how do you keep them progressing? I don't know. I don't know. I think you just be consistent with them. Yeah, that was a that that honestly, that was one of the reasons I quit doing the radio. Yeah, is because I found that I was I'd I'd watch the junior high tournaments. I'm like, man, by the time this kid gets to be a senior, they're gonna be awesome. Yeah. By the time and then when they get into high school, there's some of them like their freshman and sophomore year. It's like, boy, they're such great athletes. They're gonna be really good at basketball. And I I I I know the things that I was saying was projecting these expectations on these kids. Right. And then it was like, man, that is not fair. Yeah. Because some of them, regardless of what kind of crazy athletes, that's not their passion. Right. And so you you you can see that. It's like as much as you'd like it to be gradually from a stand a fan standpoint. I can't wait to watch his kid, man. If he just puts him or her just another 15 minutes working on free throws, another 15 minutes of ball handling. Yeah. Man, they they don't know, realize what potential they have. But for them, it's like if that's not their passion, who cares? Because some of them, as you know, just go out because they get to travel or it's they need enough to make the team so they can practice.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:08

Um, but yeah, that's that's been a hard thing for me over the years. And I think part of it too is because I was people in the community and stuff, it's like, you know, if you do this, you'll this will happen. If you do this, then this will happen. And I was I was always more, I was always more afraid of failure. Right. That always the thought that I'd miss a shot was way more uh way more of an influence than the joy of making a shot. Oh, yeah. And I I had a couple coaches I drove crazy, like, dude, you need to shoot the ball. And I'm like, no. All right.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:40

Yeah. That's the thing. I don't think anybody ever had to tell any of us on the case.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:44

I didn't know you guys, none of you guys. I was coaching you guys a gold medal. Yeah. And it's like, it's maybe passed the ball. You guys passed it's like twice before you jack up a shot. Yeah. Like, I'm open coaching. Yeah.

unknown 1:27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:58

You were open, right? It's like, let's get her. Let's make them work on defense a little bit before you drack it up.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:05

Yeah, but when you'd get going, man, it was like overwhelming for the other team when all of a sudden one pass, two pass, three, one pass, two pass, three. Yeah, you guys overwhelmed a lot of teams down there. Quite a few games.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:20

You watched you watch games do it, lost games doing that too.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:22

But we won more than we lost.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:30

In the 10 years that I went down there with you guys, we never got less than third. Yeah. I don't think we ever did did we lose in the championship game? I thought we always lost the game.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:41

We didn't lose for a while, but then we lost, we lost a few championship games. Yeah. Yeah, the one we lost one. We won like three and then lost one, which we should have never lost. That one's the one that hurts the most. And then we lost then we won again the next year. We should have had easily five in a row. We're definitely the best team that that one year that we lost, that was that was a team we beat by like twenty some points, like and just didn't play well. Like played like we'd beat them by twenty points the time before. And like it that that kind of stuff it that kind of stuff never like it always it it happens to teams at every single level. Like you know, when you try to get when you're coaching like high school kids or whatever. Uh I remember coaching uh so the first year me and Brian coached the girls' high school team. Like it was like, God, there's so many good athletes. Like we just gotta get them to play fast. So we did. We just pressured, made layups. We didn't have many girls that could like we didn't want to run a half-court offense because it was gonna be real ugly. But it was there were such good athletes that it was successful enough that we would we were winning a lot of games. And I think back then it was I don't know if we only had five teams in our butt anyway. We gotta beat Petersburg to go to state. Like that's all we gotta do. Literally beat him by 30 points three out of four times we played him. And I was like, oh man, we're gonna like the whole time I'm like, we're I'm like thinking yeah, we're we got this under control. And man, we walk into the locker room and it's like oh no. Oh no. Like this is not the like the This is not what we need before a big game. Oh man. But it was yeah, but it was that was like an eye-opening like coaching experience for me. Like just like man, you gotta prepare, like get these girls prepared for I mean they but they were I mean they were feeling they had won many games over the years, and I could I understand how they could feel the pressure and and stuff, and and and you know we didn't we didn't play very well, we still had a chance to win, but uh we didn't win. And uh but just like it's so much fun to see them have so much success from not having success. I think that's the most the funnest thing for me as a coach. Yeah. Is like I so we coach we coached for quite a few years. We had a lot of success. We had a lot of really good teams with Brian, me and Brian. And God, we just never yeah, Brian Elliott, yep. We can just never get over the hump. You know, we had sitka and edgecombe in there, and they always seemed to be good. And when they one of them wasn't good, man, Craig had like they were really good. Like they were we had tough teams.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:28

Like, I feel like between in in during that time period, between Sitka, Edgecombe, Petersburg, and Craig, there's always out of those four, like three of them were really, really good every year.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:38

Oh, I feel like we could have taken four teams up to state every year and we would have been all playing in the semifinals sometimes. But we were three A then too, so uh but the one year, and then I think it was like maybe Fran Daly senior year, maybe probably. Anyway, we we beat Edgecombe in the first round. We played Sica in the championship game. And this was probably the funnest year I ever had coaching, because these the girls we'd had them long enough, and like as far as like you could like game plan something, and they were cognitive enough that you they would be able to implement it. Like it was one of the the few teams that were ever that like dialed, like having them that long, they they it was it was so fun. Anyway, so we lose the Sickle by like three points in the championship game or four points or something. Then we play Edgecombe again to go to state. Uh end up losing, had two shots to win it. But this is how good our conference was. Edgecombe goes up to state and wins the state championship, beats ACS. Like, it's just like God, all we had to do is just get there once and we have a shot to win the whole thing. It's like, God. I mean that that still haunts me, all those all those teams. Like such good kids and such talented kids, and we just could not get them over the hump. And I take I mean I blame I have a lot of blame on myself on that. It's like, god dang it, what could I do better? What could I have done better to like give them that chance, you know? Yeah. Give them that chance. And then so then I like I took a few, I started, we had me and Lexi started having kids, took a few years off. And then Coleman took over the girls' coaching job. Coleman. Yeah, when when Greg uh had his health issues, Greg Whittenham. And uh so I was like, oh man, I'll help you a little bit. So I came and I was I was helping him a little bit, and man, I like got the bug again. I was making so much fun. For some reason I couldn't do it the next year. Wait, did I no I couldn't do it for a couple years. I d I just couldn't pull it off. I don't remember why. But uh her daughters, like Grace and Alison Benda, Grace, uh Coleman's daughter Grace and Alison Benda were seniors. And uh and I and I committed like full season. Man, it was so much fun. Like those girls were just friggin' warriors, man. Like they would run through a wall if you told them they could run through the didn't matter what the wall was made out of, they'd do it. And just such so much fun to coach kids that they're tired of losing. Like they're tired of they they're competitors and they don't like what's happening. And the g those girls did it all themselves, like and they'd set like I feel like they set like that group of seniors set up the success that the the girls program has had the next few years. Like they like this is this is what you gotta be, this is what you gotta do. This is and and the girls did a good job of of you know, like we didn't we didn't have much success at state, but like they'd like just getting there is like a super accomplishment. Huge accomplishment.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:46

And I think what you were just saying too about them kind of pushing themselves. Oh yeah, I think that was the key to your guys' team as well. Yeah, is you guys had a lot of guys that were driven, right? And watching um Rich Cock and your coach at the time, I it didn't matter how much he was yelling at you guys. Oh yeah, you guys were just we're going we're going flat to the wall the other, but but the but the effort was always there. You guys you guys were very much, I think, a self-led team. Yeah, self-motivated team. He was giving you guys strategy and everything like that. And he was he knew I love coaching with him because he knew so much about basketball. And he could point out things that are happening on the court, they're doing this, we need to take advantage of it and and find ways like that that were way beyond anything I had. Oh, yeah. But for you guys being so self-motivated, and I think a couple the couple years after you guys were gone when I was helping them uh when I was a JV coach, didn't have we had some really, really talented kids, but we didn't have that driving force within the team. Yeah, and it was trying to Rich and I were trying to figure out how do we bring that out of these guys. We're never seeing and that was that was one of the regrets I had because there's a couple teams that was like, man, these guys should be, it's these guys should be going to state, but we couldn't get them there. Yeah. And that like it haunts you, that haunts me still. It just really bothers me that we we couldn't find that motivational key to get them over that hump and figure out how to how to help them through those tough situations.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:15

Yeah. Yeah, and learning I think learning how to win is like a like just learning how to win a game. Like that's like a skill.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:24

Like it's so close for so long. And when you get like at regionals, it's one thing winning games at home. Yeah, it's another game winning game, another thing winning games on the road. Then you get to regionals, a lot more people in the stands, you're in a different gym, yeah, pressure goes up. That's a different different threshold if you're not used to it. Yeah. Then state, it's a different threshold. So but yeah, you've you've got to learn how to do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:50

Yeah. That's it's it's the first thing is learning, like you don't like finding that success is uh and just having that comment. Oh yeah, we we can win. Like we're good, we're you were good enough to do this. All right, let's let's do this. Like I feel like some of those girls' teams, that's all it took was just to get those the taste of those first couple wins, and then it was just like look out, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:13

Like makes it makes a huge difference. Oh yeah. Just have a little bit of success. A little a little tinder to start to fire on it.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:21

Yeah. It was fun to be able to be a part of that. Like I thank Coleman for letting me, you know, get in on I feel like I just like I mean I I know that like I know like I know these girls are gonna be good, and I just have like just hop on the bandwagon. And I I didn't get a coach last year at all, and I uh that was kind of a bummer. I I I feel bad, you know, like walking away from it, but I'd hope that I'm gonna get it. I I hope they're gonna get a coach again this year. I helped Abby a little bit at the end and it was so much fun. You know, so much fun seeing those girls like they played we had their our best two games like by far at regionals and those girls were they're I mean they're they're every bit is tough. Like how hard is it to like what those girls went through like losing by a lot of points every game and to still have that like we don't give a shit, like we're gonna we're gonna come after you guys like with no expectation of what the outcome is gonna be. Yeah. And they played Petersburg tough. I wish we could have played him again because I think we would have beat him. Um and played him tough. We lost by 17 or something or 20, but that was better than the outcomes before. And then we played Wrangle. And man, we gave them everything they wanted, and then something like they were like shell-shocked. I was like, you guys are so close, like so close to and it was all on just effort, like made a few shots, but just like the defensive effort and the and just a little bit of better, they the better they took the care of the ball. Like I think we had what the heck? Like 12 turnovers. I mean, there's games in the season where we had that in order. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And you know, they'd but that kind of just resilience just shows you like it's it's just it's right there.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:13

Like that'd be interesting this next year. Do they do they use that spark to prep for next year? Was that enough of uh we could we're really close to push them over that hump? Yeah, we'll see. It'll be fun to see. Yeah. No, I I know they I know the I didn't watch much of the girls, but watching them, they were definitely improving throughout the season. Oh yeah. And I think that's that's what you want. You want to be able to see um improvement throughout there. And they had injuries and you know, they had some serious injuries.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:44

But what what a good experience for some of those younger girls to be able to like I mean you get a full season under your belt, like there you you can't there's there's no way to replace game minutes.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:53

No, not at all. More game time you get, the better player you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:57

Yeah, yeah, and the boys, I mean the boys like they got they're gonna they they're lucky they got they got Brian coaching them, Combs coach them now, and what a job he did with them. Well, they did an amazing job. I was really impressed. From him and Tyler, maybe not his expectations, yeah, but and Tyler did him and Tyler together were awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:15

Like I asked him if I could talk to the team after they got back from state because I knew they were bummed about getting second. Right. And so I went and kind of talked to the team and I told him, I said, I thought I said honestly at the beginning of the season I thought you guys were the third best team in regionals in in Southeast. Yeah. I said I've I was figuring, you know, Matt, Petersburg, Haynes, Wrangle Craig. Yeah. That's kind of how I've had that at the beginning of the season. So for them to be the fourth team in Haynes to get a regional championship and then get second at state. I was like, you guys should be really, really proud of yourselves, and you guys did a hell of a job.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:49

I think Brian squeezed every bit of whatever was in there to squeeze out of those guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:54

You look, and that was the biggest thing for me is it it reminded me of your guys' teams and some of the girls' teams that you're talking about. Just no quit. No, they were playing the defense that they played. Impeccable defense was just effort, effort, effort, effort, effort. Every person out there was just given maximum effort. It was fun to watch. Yeah. Oh, yeah, it was fun to watch. Not all of them were the most talented offensively or anything, but the nobody brought the effort every day. Every single day harder than them. Nobody.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:23

What else would you expect from from Brian? Brian Combs coach team. Yeah, no, that's exactly what you that's exactly what you would expect. And it works, man. It's obvious it works.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:33

That's the one thing that it doesn't matter talent. With anything, whether it's basketball or anything. Yeah. Fishing.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:40

You put in the effort. Yeah. You're gonna the person that puts in the effort is 99.9% of the time gonna get penalty.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:46

Those boys put in the they were in the gym from like this time last year, like relentlessly, all the way till the season started. Like they played a lot. Yep. And they got the reward. And it showed. Showed.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:01

Got the reward.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:02

So you're gonna keep uh so you're Charlie, your oldest. Is he eighth grade this year? Eighth grade, yeah. So he's gonna be a freshman next year. Yep. Lorelei is in fifth grade. Fifth grade. And Lucas in second grade. Second grade. Okay. So are you gonna keep coaching the younger kids? Or are you gonna try and do both? How you how are you gonna manage this going forward? Oh man, I don't know. I because Charlie's gonna be with Brian and Tyler. So are you gonna are you gonna are you gonna work and coach with the varsity girls so you can travel and watch Charlie play?

SPEAKER_05 1:42:32

Are you gonna well I figure this is what I figure? Like I figure like so I felt like uh when I was coaching with Brian, I was like I was, you know, starting to f I was becoming a pretty good coach at that time. And I took whatever how many years off, I don't remember when I quit, 2012 or something. And I didn't start coaching again until well, I helped Coleman for like a month, and then I went and had to go fishing. Uh but it's like man, I like lost a lot of like like it's just like oh yeah, I gotta do that, oh yeah, you gotta do this, oh yeah, it should be. It's like so I figure like my daughter likes basketball. Um who knows if what I mean, we had a little bit of a discussion on stuff, but uh so I figure like man, if I'm gonna coach, like I gotta start like, and I can't just like oh my daughter's just freshman high school, I'm gonna start coaching. Yeah. Like I'm gonna like you know, be the head coach, whatever. Like I don't think that's quite the way it works. Probably not the best. You know, not not the best.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:38

Not not if you want to have success.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:40

No, you want to and the I yeah, so I feel like what the heck, why not? Like it would be I'd love to. Only my only real issue is I have a very lucrative fishery in the middle of February. Yeah you know, that it's not that long, it's only like a week long, but uh that that's my biggest dilemma is like if I wasn't gonna be the head coach, yeah finding an assistant coach that would be willing to take on the duties of the head coach for a week or for a week to ten days or two weeks or two weeks at the most wouldn't find me. But that that's my biggest dilemma. And that's like uh I mean I'd love to. I'd love to. Like I'd I enjoy coaching the the girls and I enjoy co I mean I just enjoy coaching, like period. Like I had fun coaching the junior high boys. I'd my kid doesn't even like basketball hardly until this year he started really like he started Is he starting to like it as you likes to set screens and he likes to rebound, he plays pretty good defense and figured out like I was yelling at him, we were playing in Juno during Gold Medal, like Charlie, you have to shoot the ball. Like we were we were kind of short-handed. We had injuries and like there's double teaming uh suite and Charlie standing there wide open. And I'm like, you have to shoot the ball.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:58

You have to shoot the ball when you're how does your son not have just a natural desire to just have ball.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:06

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:08

I maybe I need to like put my hand on his head or something, like in like you need to kind of give some of that osmosis or something.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:13

Yeah, you need to work on that. But uh the one like the one time sweet hits him and he shoots it and it goes in, it's like and he's like, oh my god, like what happened? I was like, Yeah, that's what happens when you shoot the ball, it could go in. Like like that's a good shot. You'd like and it I mean, I don't I don't know why he never really liked basketball that much, but it is what it is, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:33

But each yeah. As much as I say it's crazy that a kid of yours doesn't like to shoot. My dad gave was the same thing with me. He's like, shoot the damn ball. Yeah. I was like, Well, I thought somebody's the offense is supposed to do this. He goes, You're open, shoot the ball. Right. You can make that shot. Yeah, but it might have gotten close. He goes, You're the offense doesn't work unless when the open person shoot the open person doesn't take that shot that you worked for.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:00

Yeah, everything else goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:02

Why are we running the why are we running this? You you're open, shoot the ball. And that never, like I said earlier, I was always more worried. And the games that it was weird because there's games if if I knew the person I was playing against and I was a better player, I could light them up. I mean, I had a JV game against Petersburg, I think it was my junior year because my sister was home for Christmas. I had like 28 points in two quarters. And uh and they're like, all right, we're gonna get you in the varsity game. And I I tried to make a strong move, dribble the ball off my foot or something like that. It's like, okay, I'm not gonna do that. I'll just set screens and pass the ball again. Every time it seemed like I tried to do something in a varsity game, something bad would go wrong. And so I just like, yeah, apparently this just isn't for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:45

I'll just I'll just do it other places. That's yeah, I'm not meant to be shooting the ball. I yeah, see, I'd I played.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:52

Now my sister on the other hand, oh yeah, she she didn't we were joking about this the other day because I forget something on the she she I think she threw something to Ralph or whatever, because that wasn't a very good pass. I was like, when has she ever learned to play?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:05

She doesn't have a relevant here.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:07

She doesn't have that skill set of passing the ball. It's catch and shoot. She does both of those extremely well.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:13

No doubt. Yeah, I I think that was uh one of the things that what made our teams good was like I don't know, man, I just never had that. That was never in my mindset, and I I sure know it was never in Andrew's mindset that like the thing like, oh, they're better than us. Whatever, like what is that? We'll find out at the end of the game. Yeah. Like, or and I, you know, played against a lot of kids like old like you know, going through all the the tournaments and stuff, and all these like kids, guys that played college and when I was going to college and stuff, and I remember one of the probably the like the most gratifying one of the most gratifying games I've ever played in my life was went and played in this tournament. So I played college basketball at Adam State for like a year and a half. And uh one of the years uh I decided well, I decided to quit because the coach told me I couldn't come play gold medal with all my buddies. Or he's like, you need to make a decision. Like, man, you're playing me like eight minutes a game. Uh-huh. Like, I'm going, I'm going home in spring we can play basketball. This is gonna be a good one. Thank God we won. But anyway, so later that year I go play in a tournament in Pagosa Springs with my coaches, and they got like our rivals Western State uh uh in our in Colorado, and they had like two of the or three of their starting players were playing on this team we played in the championship. And I got a guard, the first all conference guard from on from that team. Okay, and I kicked his ass. And that was like the most gratifying like game I ever probably just to like man, you guys should have gave me more minutes. Like I it that that was just like I was like, alright, I'm I'm good now. Like yeah, I do kind of regret not like finishing that whole thing out, but it's it's hard when they tell you you can't go do that. Like, why can't I go do that? We're not doing it, we're barely even doing any preseason stuff, like yeah, whatever. Yeah, but it is what it is. Like, I don't I don't hold any grudges about it, but that was I I really I'll never forget that game. I think I he was averaging like 40 points a game and I held him under 20, and I think I had 20 some. Yeah, and we won. And that was just like, alright. I see this was it I was good enough to do to play in that league.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:31

So yeah, so you're playing with what what kind of tournament was this?

SPEAKER_05 1:49:34

Because you're playing with a just a men's league tournament, and those guys had all graduated. Okay. And so like there was uh that we were playing with guys, like there's a couple guys that played at Adam State, they're older guys that it was really a cool thing. They like the coaches had gone and done this. It was kind of like a a gold medal type like thing. Like they'd go play with these guys, and this guy had this nice big house, and he'd like we'd have like breakfast, like buffet, like then we go play basketball all day. And it was it was cool. It was just it when it was no different than like it was like gold medal, not really gold metal, but like the fans were it wasn't like the atmosphere was nothing, but it was just like same people come play in this tournament every year. And it was good competition. Really good competition.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:14

So it was alright to do that, but to come up and play in gold medal was already quit. Oh you'd already quit so then you could do it. But they're like, hey Stu, come play with it.

College Basketball And Choosing Geology

SPEAKER_05 1:50:20

And I think uh I had a couple buddies that were that played in uh around that team. The the college guys played were it was like me and two of the coaches, two of the guys that played in college, and then uh like one of the guys that played a while. He was I don't know how old he was, probably ten years before I got there graduated. It was fun. It was fun. Played in a six and then they had a six foot and under league in that one too, and I played in the six foot and under one. Yeah. I feel like yeah, it was it was it was a fun tournament. Cool, they had the the like really nice hot springs there, like really nice hot springs there. It was it was a good time. But that was like the most gratifying basket, one of the most gratifying basketball games I ever played for sure. Just couldn't like to just prove my point. Yep. And my coaches were there to see it. Yep. And funny thing, so the one kid, there was a kid playing for Angun this year who's going to Adam State. Really? Yeah, yeah, after the game, he was walking around, he had all the Adam State gear on. I go, Oh, you're going to Adam State? He's like, Oh, yeah, I'm a redshirt freshman. I go, Hey, you know Larry Mortensen? And that was the coach when I was there. He goes, Oh yeah, I know him. He just started helping again this year. He's like, I think he's a volunteer assistant coach. Okay. I said, Well, tell him Stuart DeWitt says hi. And he you never call me, so that's why I haven't invited you up to go fishing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:41

So speaking of Adam State, you go to Adam State and study geology. What was the rationale behind this? Oh man. Hunting, trapping, fishing. Where'd geology come out of that?

SPEAKER_05 1:51:55

I don't know. I think I went I went with like an intent to do the engineering or whatever. Uh God, and they had to take these stupid classes. Like this one class was like was first I took calculus at 8 a.m., which was a terrible idea as a freshman in college. Yes. Like probably maybe any time in your life. Don't take calculus at 8 a.m. But then I had right after that I had this class called Fortran. And I don't even know what the hell it was for. What did I was like so lost in that class. It was some computer. I think that's how they used to do some kind of whatever engineering. I don't know. But man, after that semester, I was like, well, I'm not doing this. And I had taken a physical geology class. And I really liked the professor. He was really cool. And so like, you know what? Screw it, I'll just I'll just start taking geology classes. So I what did I do? Oh, so that next year I bought my fishing boat, so I didn't even go back. That's when I walked on the basketball team. And I that right then I changed my major. Like I walked on it semester because a bunch of guys quit or something. And I had been playing with them, so I called the coach. And uh he was like, sure, like you show up here in three days, man. You're you got a spot. So did that, and we were actually really good that year. We had like seven guys, which it was or seven guys that played. It was fun. Like we made the playoffs, lost to the uh lost to the team that won like the national championship, or got second in the national championship or something. Our best player got hurt. I don't think we would have won, but you never know, who knows? Uh anyway, so I go do that and I take a few more geology classes, and then I own a fishing boat, so I'm like, man, I'm coming back late to class. Like I got I'm gonna be two weeks late. My geology professor is like, whatever, man. You just I don't care, but you gotta make it up. And luckily I'd befriended this one guy, Kenzie Turner, who actually came up here and fished with me one year when I had the driftwood. But he's like, he was like a genius, and so he would like he'd study me all up, man, and I'd be caught up and by the time the first test came and no problems. Good to go. Yeah, it was just like it worked out fine. Like showed up two weeks late every year, and yeah, and my professor was fine with it and worked out good. And it was it was just fun, you know, you get it you get to go out and you do lots of field trips, camping trips, you know, it was like just it was it was a good time learning, learning how to map whatever, you know, and just mostly it was there's a lot of uh you know, late night campfires and my professor liked to like to drink heavily. But he but he was like a he was a really really smart guy, like really, really good teacher. Really good teacher, but his campfire stories were really fun, you know. Like it was like it was a good time. It was it was a great time.

unknown 1:54:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:41

So so then the other thing that you did for a while in Haynes is you were assistant big game guide, correct? Oh yeah. How long did you do that? I did that for about nine years, ten years, something like that. And that was mainly black, brown bears and goats. Yeah, black bear, brown bear goats. Now tell me about what happened, because you you had a pretty serious injury on a goat hunt, correct? I did, I did. What uh give us the lowdown on that one.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:10

So we John had a John Katzick had a hunter in town, and Ron had a hunter in town. And uh they both you know, we had and then uh Colton Baker was also, he was like an assistant, he was I think he had an assistant guide license too. Uh and or packer or whatever, maybe it was just Packer. I don't know if he had a guide license, but he went up with us too. But anyway, so they these guys want to go go hunting, and like we're like, well, we'll just we can take them both up together. There's a bunch of goats up here. And uh so we we get all our stuff together, everybody gets their contracts done, da da da da. And then I'm looking at I had this weird feeling anyway. I'd like looking at the weather and it's like it says snow at like four o'clock, potentially. Uh huh. I'm like looking, it's like blue sky, like yeah, it ain't nothing, it's gonna be fine. And anyway, so we head up the mountain, a spot never been before. Uh up above Wells Bridge. There's this Ron and John just explain you just go here, you do this, and you'll hit this and go up the hill here. Okay, that seems easy enough, you know. Whatever. You know, go to Henry's Bait site, go back to the mountain, yeah. You know, you'll hit the grass slide, go up the grass slide. So oh man. So we I'm like, all right, here we go. So we boom, hit the grass slide, go up the mountain. Shit, no problem. Like, you weren't kidding, you know. One of the few times. One of the few times it was right. Uh so we get up there, and you know, it's pretty steep country up there. And uh we're going, I mean, just goat trails, like these big, like literally through these giant curbasses, and there's like there's goat trails like you know, eight inches wide, and you're like, Man, if you slip, you're you're done. And you're it's all over. So we're going and we get and we get to the spot and we're like, oh man, there's three goats. The three pretty three pretty nice bellies. So we get the guy set up, and they both shoot, and they both get goats. This is about four o'clock in the afternoon. Literally, the second they pull the trigger, here comes the snowflakes. Like, I'm not even kidding, man. Like, it was like I'm like, oh, they were right. Oh boy. They nailed it. Yeah. And we had planned on spending the night up there, so we had like sleeping bags and tarps and like not no tents. We're kind of going kind of light, and uh so we get up there and uh we get the goats dealt with, we get packs, everybody's tired, it gets dark out, go to bed, and these guys are just like the one guy uh like hey, let's let's get going. You know, it's like pretty it's pretty miserable. It's we're wet, there's probably two inches of wet snow, inch and a half of wet snow. We got everybody's got packed to the max. And man, we like start taking off, and instantly I like lose footing and start to slide. Self-arrest, no big deal. Like, not it wasn't like in a bad spot, it was just like walking across a slope, but it's like the ground is nasty. Like, all right guys, like we gotta be this in the middle of the night, too. This was like five in the morning. Five in the morning. Five in the morning, it's dark out. Okay, you know, we start kind of working real slow back towards where we're going. I think it they nobody was sleeping, everybody's cold, everybody just needed to get moving. Might as well get moving. Get moving. Yep. It was probably maybe it was probably six by the time we got all going. Like it was like couldn't quite see. We just probably had headlights on. Uh but it it got light within half an hour, 45 minutes or something. So we're going along and we get through like the worst part of it. Like, everybody's good. And this one guy, Ken, is like out in front of us, and he goes go across this little field, like, you know, little chute. Not even a chute, it's just like a flat, little grassy slope. But they got these big, you know, those like big leaves, like viney things that grow up there. I don't even know what they are. But man, he starts to go across this and he shwpped slips and he's on his butt going down and he catches himself on this little alder clump down there. Like, oh my god. And I don't know, whatever for my did my mind, I didn't even think twice. And I had put, you know, so then the other thing too is I had put these rain pants, little like waist rain pants on the other day. Just because I figured I was gonna get wet, so I put them on. So anyway, I mean, I probably got 130 or 40 pounds on my back or something, 130 pounds goat meat. And I go and I take a step and I take another step, and boom, I'm sliding. As soon as I start sliding, I go, I'm in deep trouble. Like, I'm like, I'm sliding way faster than he was sliding. Uh-huh. And I got rain pants, he didn't have rain pants on. So I'm going like, alright, I got this one chance to stop myself here. So I'm sliding down towards this clump of alders and probably some rocks or something. There was like a little ridge or moraine or whatever. So I go to catch myself, and man, I go to catch myself, and I I catch myself, and I like feel this terrible pain in my left ankle, and I just I mean, I don't know what happened, but I mean I knew do know what happened, but I don't know exactly what exactly how it happened. But I all of a sudden am forward momentum, the pack on my back, and I am airborne. And I'm going like, uh-oh. This is bad. And my ankle, I just think I've just completely like my leg is broken, I feel like. You know, this sharp shooting paint through my left ankle, left ankle. So I'm I start tumbling and I landing on thank god I think I had this pack on because I would land on this pack every like at least I think I was anyway. That's what it felt like. Tumble. I rolled like 400 feet down the mountain. And if you look up at that mountain, it's like, where the hell do you fall 400 feet down that mountain and you don't like hit something? Like just land on a rock outcrop or something. Like uh yeah, baffling. So I'm tumbling, I'm like, holy cow, this is like I mean, I'm not even panicking. I mean, I I I don't know how you panic in a moment like that. And I I guess you don't because I don't panicking. I was just like, God, I wonder if this is ever gonna stop, kind of thing. Like thinking I'm probably thinking I'm dead, you know. Like, and I remember I felt like I felt like I had the last clump of alders, maybe I had slowed down. So the next couple altars I come and I feel this branch like hit me like in the armpit, and then I squeezed down on that thing for all I was worth. And somehow I came to a stop. And I was like, oh my god, like and I had no other pain the whole time I was falling, like I didn't feel anything, so I assumed I was fine or whatever, but I just I just like went to look at my leg because I just knew my foot was gonna be like one of those like backwards. And I look and I'm like, oh jeez, it looks normal. Like, alright, I'm alright. And the guys are yelling, are you stew? And I'm like, I'm okay. I had lost my gun, or no, I don't even know if I had my gun. I think I had a gun. I lost a gun, blah blah blah blah blah. Like they make it down to me, I'll make it down to me. And I'm thinking, like, I think I'm okay. Like, my ankle obviously is screwed up. And then I could I could pick it up and I could feel my fibula clicking. Like I'd like, yeah, I think I might have broke my leg too. Like I could feel like just like a little not like it wasn't like sticking out of the skin or anything, but I could just feel it was like a click. So whenever I'd pick the weight with my leg up, it would like slide it and I'd put it back down and I could feel it. So it was kind of that was kind of a weird feeling. Um, so we're like sitting there and we got really no way to get a hold of anybody. Or actually, we might have had like a slight bit of service. I think we were able to call John and be like, Man, I fell, da da da da. Like and it there's we wouldn't have got like I don't think it was too foggy, like it had socked in. It would we wouldn't have got any helicopter would have gotten a lot of people. Yep. So we're like, well, I guess we'll just try to make our way down. And we're probably at like I would guess twenty three hundred feet elevation or twenty four hundred feet elevation. And we gotta go sideways over this rock, big rock outcrop, and then slide down. I mean, I don't even really know where we're at at this point. Like I'm I think we I mean I I was I I knew once we got across this I knew we weren't quite to the grass slide where we had to go down. But I didn't know how far. I had really no idea how far. And it wasn't luckily it wasn't too far, but it was still so I'd just start like sliding on my butt, like all the way down, like just kind of going. I could actually go pretty fast, like on the like on the steep parts through the alders, man. I could go probably faster than the guys, the guys behind me could. But it took about like it was like eight hours of just like I think I don't even know if I was in shock or what I was because there was really not much like the pain was not excruciating by any means.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:26

You had to be in shock at some kind of body was yeah, your body knew you had to get to a certain point.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:32

And like this was even crazier, like so I think Charlie was this was like in 2011, and Charlie was less than a month old at home, like less than a month old. So honestly, that was like one of my like I was like, man, I I'm not I can't stay. I I I gotta get down. Like I'm I gotta be okay. Uh-huh. You know. So I I guess I was okay. You know, I was like, my body or mind over matter, right? Like just like either get off the mountain or don't. I was like, alright, I guess I'll get off the mountain. So I slid on my butt, man. I had a hole. My pants were like down to the I had nothing left on my pants. And John actually, John came and met us at like the uh like right where because Hank's road kind of comes Hank's Hank Jocko's old logging road or whatever, but it comes right to the base of that grass slide. So John actually came with the jet airboat and walked into there and then walked us back out. But he sure didn't pick the way we went in because he led us through. He was so he felt so bad. He brought me some admill that gave me some ad bills or Tylenols or something, but man, went on the way back out. It was like, geez, done torturing me or what? Like all this windfall stuff, like having to go over and lift my leg over it and all this. And he's like, he was actually apologizing. He's like, I'm kind of sorry, Stu. Like, ah, whatever, it's okay. Anyway, I got we made it back to the boat, got on my jet boat, drove it, drove it down the river, got in my truck, drove it home, walked in the door at my house, and I go, I think I gotta go to the clinic. And Lexi's like, why? I was like, well, I just fell, you know, maybe 400 feet down the mountain. Uh about about 10 hours ago, you know. And I think I my nose was kind of smashed, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:30

I had like seriously, you I walked into my house into the house and she's like, why? You're like, well, you know, I kind of fell like a few hundred feet down the mountain.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:40

Yeah, so I got in and I actually went and took a shower.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:43

And then like You took it you took a shower before you went to the clinic with your your with your broken leg.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:49

I yeah, I guess. I mean I could kind of walk. I could it was weird because like so I got this thing called like they call it a meson the vee fracture, and it's where like your heel your heel bone like smashes up between your tibia fibia. Okay, so it like spreads them out and then goes up and tears all the tendons and ligaments and stuff, and then almost always it when when that goes back, like all that shock from the muscle, the bones being like when they snap back, you usually blow your fibia out. Okay. So that was like it was the classic like mason to be fracture. So I went up, uh, what happened then? I uh went to the clinic and they're like, Oh yeah, you looks like you did they I mean I don't even know if they knew as bad as it was, you know. Uh they could see this broken bone and the fibia, but they didn't I don't think they could really tell much about the ankle. But then they sent it to a s a specialist and uh he's like, Oh yeah, you gotta you need surgery. You you gotta you got a lot of stuff going on. So I got like two screws and plates to hold.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:55

Where'd you end up where'd they send you for the surgery? Anchorage.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:58

Anchorage. Yeah. So they sent me to Anchorage like a week later, and I got surgery. And uh yeah, that was so then I like I was all drugged up after I got surgery. I slept on one of my dad's buddies' couches up there. And I was feeling pretty good. You know, think, oh man, this isn't too bad. And I they told me to take these oxycottons and uh I was like thinking, oh man, this is I don't need these, like this is fine. So I like quit taking them, went to bed, man, and I got up to go pee, and all the blood rushed to my foot, and I think that was the worst pain of the whole experience. Like it was like oh my god. I think I need to double up the No I understand. Yeah, I understand why you're supposed to take these things. Oh, it was brutal. That was brutal. But yeah, I think I it was quite a long recovery, it was like three, three and a half months or something in a cast and then a boot.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:02

It was do you f do you feel like it's back to normal now?

SPEAKER_05 2:09:06

I I don't definitely don't have the range of motion uh in it.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:09

Uh yeah, it seems like you run different. I you can tell when you're playing basketball and stuff that there's still something with the foot.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:16

Yeah, something and then like my I I got torn ligaments, like my toes, I can't like this foot I can spread on my toes, and this foot I can't. Like I there's I mean there's more damage in there that they got fixed for sure. Yeah. But I I think uh yeah, it was just I mean, I just like how do you fall off one of those mountains like that and not die? I don't get it. Like I th you could do that a hundred more times and you'd probably die, 99 of them almost, you know. Like it feels like anyway. Like I don't know, just be happy that you're the one that I am. It wasn't. I am so I was I was really like I'm not like a religious person, but man, there was a time where I was like, There's gotta be something because I'm not dead, right? Like there's gotta be something because I'm not dead, and that would like a betting man would like you're gonna win most bets if you bet I bet you can't fall off that mountain for 400 feet and still live. Like yeah, that was that was quite the experience.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:19

I can't even I can't even imagine. You know, just uh just the the way they're describing it, even even after the accident when you when you talked about it and stuff. I'm like, how does somebody get through it's it's like the it's like the the falls you see in the movies. Yeah, that's what in in you're like well yeah, it's movies. I would nobody survive that in real life. Right. But you did. I did. And the fact that also just tumbling airborne like you were, yeah, and it was still just your leg was the only major injury, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:10:54

Is I mean I might have like smashed my nose, was the only like I had my nose, I definitely hit my nose on something. Like that was the only other like what the heck? Alders probably were my friend, you know, like I'm sure. Slowed you down. But how did I not like just like stab yourself in it like an arm caught in something and just like rip it out of socket or something?

SPEAKER_01 2:11:17

Or hit an alder and have it like stab you.

SPEAKER_05 2:11:20

Stab you and I know it. Because I was like, shit, I probably weighed 350 pounds or something with all the shit I had on with the stuff you had, yeah. All the stuff I had on, yeah, I was probably a good three hundred and thirty pounds. Lucky. Very lucky.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:39

I was really lucky. Nothing wrong with a little lot. No, no, it's good. It's always better to be lucky than good. And sometimes you know, I've I've I've had this conversation with other people on this and just trying to figure out. Like you're I you're talking about being very religious and actually actually Becky Nash, because I was talking about religion. On here, and she she came up to me, she says, Doug, you're not looking for religion, you're looking for a better relationship with God. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, that's a good way to put it, Becky. Because I I think there is that higher power. Something. There's something out there that's kind of putting us in places, yeah, and giving us um putting obstacles in front of us, making us earn things. Some people say, no, it's coincidence, whatever. That's that's fine. But I I think we're constantly being tested, but we're not tested more than what we can handle. Right. And it's all whether it's to to put us in a position to do something, to show something to others. Yeah. Don't know I I don't know the understanding of all that. I don't know the um, boy, I tell you what, I was But I I know you're one of them, but I know some people that have been through some amazing stuff and come out on the other side, and I'm just like, how in the heck did you do that?

SPEAKER_03 2:13:00

Yeah.

Family Legacy Work And Gratitude

SPEAKER_01 2:13:00

And just seeing what they've done since then, since those accident, whatever it was, right? It's like, my God, I'm I'm I'm glad it ended up the way that it did, because what would this world be like without them? Right. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So what kind of with with all of this, like you said, you've got your wife, you got your three kids. What in your mind, when your kids look back 60 years from now, 50 years from now, and they're like, they're telling their kids and stuff or their grandkids about Stuart? What do you hope what do you hope they take as the essence of their dad? Oh boy. Uh what do you what do you want to instill in your life?

SPEAKER_05 2:13:51

I think that uh like uh work ethic is one like hard like he was a hard worker, but also that he liked to play just as much as he liked to work. Like it was either one or the other. There was no like, oh, we're gonna save all our money and we're gonna, you know, have all this retirement. It's like, man, we're gonna go work hard, and guess what? Then we're gonna go on vacation, or we're gonna go buy this, or we're gonna have fun with that, and uh you know, I I think work ethic is a big one, man. And being uh being uh reliable, like being a reliable friend and reliable person. Uh being a good husband. Um which is way harder than one would think it would be. Like I mean, it's not not harder, but just like it it takes a lot of work to be a good spouse and like uh and just like patience and understanding and thinking before you speak, and uh you know, marriage is way harder, and I have a wonderful like I'm lucky, I have a phenomenal, like the best.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:59

I was just gonna say, I think I'm knowing you from pre-Llexi to post-Llexi.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:05

Oh my god. Like literally saved my life, I think.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:07

Yeah, I think it did.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:08

Yeah, like I think you were very fortunate. I was a complete train wreck for about who knows how many years, like probably a good like 10 to 12 years complete train wreck. Like function, I could do all my work and everything, but man, when I was like not doing what I was supposed to be doing, I was doing what I sh probably shouldn't be doing to a very extreme, you know, like indulging in alcohol and never drugs, you know. I that's one thing I thank God I never got into drugs, but like I definitely took alcohol way too far. And uh who knows what that road would have looked like if I if I uh I didn't meet my wife and she didn't take some crazy chance on thinking that I was a good person. I mean she was she's been a wonderful wife, like great mom. Um I love that she uh she was teaching when we she had Charlie and then when we got pregnant with Lorelei. I love the fact that man, she just she wanted to be a mom.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:14

And I love the fact that I was able to support our family. Like I think that to let her be that way. Oh yeah, that was that was really cool to have just I mean, just it's lucky not everybody just gets to be a mom. No. And that's like the hardest job in the world, right? Like there's nothing harder than being a mother to your kids and being there consistent and doing a great job. Like for you're doing it for your all your really all your life, but like and who knows when the hard years are, depends on who your kids are, I guess. But like for sure they're tough when they're one through eighteen, no matter what, right? And uh just like she's great at it, you know. She's she's great. And she now now she's teaching again, so you know all the kids are in school, so it's and she's she's happy to be back at work. Um I'm glad she doesn't have to worry about uh you know, not like what if I just worked through all that. Or like I'm glad we were we were in the position that we could do what be able to afford to do what she wanted to do, which is not easy in Haynes to no, it's not easy. Yeah, you have to make sacrifices, you know. But it's all work out, so you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:36

All right, we're getting getting long into this. What uh what have we missed? Man, I don't know. What did we miss? What are what are questions I should be asking you that I haven't? While you're thinking, I'll I'll tell you, I kind of alluded to this when we were talking earlier today, but one of the reasons I wanted to have you on here is just you've been your your family's good been good friends of ours. You know, you're I've known your mom and dad my whole life, I've known you your whole life. One of my favorite memories of you, I don't know if you remember this, but when you were I was 16, 17, and you were big into trading cards. Oh, yeah. I was baseball trading cards. It's probably the same exact thing. And I remember I brought some, I had some old baseball cards, and I brought them over your house because you were gonna tell me which ones were worth something. Yeah, and there's one that was worth like three bucks or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:30

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:30

And you were pissed that I wanted back to bent it. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:34

Like a was it Cal Ripkin Ricky, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 2:18:37

It could have been. I can't remember what it was, but you were so bent, you bent it. You threw in the card and then you're gonna chase me down the driveway. I wouldn't sell you the car. No, man. And I was like, that boy's got some passion to him. Oh man.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:52

See, I was thinking of a different story. I was thinking of the story where uh this might have been before this because I don't know if you'd helped me after this. You uh you helped me write all you helped me write like a form letter to all these teams to send out my cards to get autographed. And I sent out, I don't know how, I mean, I sent out a pile of stuff. And I got a pile of stuff back. And like I've collected cards kind of on and off all throughout my whatever, even now I still dabble in it a little bit, not too much, but like my favorite card of all time. I did that, you helped me do this. Uh I sent out a card to a bunch of the Bears. Yeah, and I got a Walter Payton, like it's on this record breaker card, and it had it was Walter Payton autograph, and in quotations it says sweetness on it.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:44

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:45

It's like the coolest thing. Like my holy grail of cards. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and I it was crazy how much stuff I got back. Like, I got autographs back from Jerry Rice, uh Joe Montana, yeah, uh, like some other Matt Suey, some other Bears guys, like Dan Moreno, I think. He like stamped a card and then signed it on the back. John Elway. And then some of them come with like pictures, and like it was crazy how much stuff actually came back. I mean, a lot of cards didn't come back at all, but like some of the guys that act like Jerry Rice sent like I sent him like three cards, he autographed them all and sent me a picture autograph. Like the best receiver in ever in history. Ever. And this was probably like this was I would he was probably only like a second or third year guy then, probably, I would guess. So he was pretty young, but still that was pretty, pretty cool. I really appreciated that. That was pretty awesome. I do have to.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:39

To be honest, I don't remember helping with that letter. You did. I did.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:42

Yeah, wow. Yep. And then I I do have nightmares having to sleep with a Seahawks logo in my bedroom all those years, too. I never painted it over.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:53

I'm surprised you guys never painted that over again. So when we built after a fire, when we're rebuilding, the two downstairs bedrooms were gonna be Sarah and I. My mom and dad were gonna be upstairs. Yeah, and my grandpa hub was like gonna, he had been living over behind the store here in Gene Hill place, and then he was like, Well, the health issues, whatever, we need to have them at the house. And so my mom and dad are like, that was gonna be a storage room. Oh, yeah. And so I was like, would you mind living up there, having that as your bedroom? We'll paint it however you want. Oh, yeah. Let's paint it Seahawk colors. And then uh Eileen Twiliger painted the helmet of Seattle Seahawks on it. I was like, to be honest, I would have taken that room regardless, because it's the very back of the house. It's perfect, yeah. Pool table right out there. It's like, sign me up for this. You can have, but they're like, yeah, so Seahawk colors and everything. And yeah, and yeah, I forget it was like five or six years ago. I asked your mom, is this still? She goes, she goes, Oh, it's still there. Yes, yeah, it's still there. Yeah, for a bear fan to have a Seahawk helmet on his bedroom wall every day. Oh, yeah. It had to be a little traumatic. Yeah, it was it was alright.

SPEAKER_05 2:22:02

Sorry, Steve. I got some Steve Largent autographs out of the deal. All right. He sent he sent back some stuff to the autographs. Did he? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah, class act there, Steve Largent. Yeah, speaking of it, so I like watched uh some of these and it was with your mother. And I that makes me think like how tough like moms are. Like, you know, like so my grandpa Cliff, like, he lived, she like basically took care of him for I don't even know how many years, like 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:30

After his stroke and everything.

SPEAKER_05 2:22:31

Yeah, like he lived with us for ever. I mean, I lived at home until I was like 27 or something. Like so, like, but like he was like the guy, like he was like my probably my favorite person in the world, but like just to like be able to experience that. Like he was he moved to Arizona Arizona with us, like I mean, maybe he's the one that got me so excited about because he was like so involved about sports and you know, like competitive, and like I'll give you a nickel for every one of the you know, free throw you make or point you make, or a dollar, you know, like he'd always be out in the in the yard, but like just having like so you know, like playing catch with us and former gold glove boxing champion in the city of Chicago. Yeah, like I still remember like even even like when I can't remember how old he was. In his 70s anyway, some somewhere. And he was like, he got this like blow up thing, boxing, uh like blow-up thing, and uh he would like do like two-minute workouts on it. Like my mom had some videos somewhere of it. Like he'd like literally do these like you know routines on this thing, and it was like just funny, funny to watch. Like I makes you wish you would have like take maybe learn how to box.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:42

Well, he would so he would come in even when he was teaching in Klukwan, yeah, like on the weekends, he'd be in the store every Saturday. Yeah, and so we used to have a TV off the side, and so if there's any boxing or whatever on, he'd come in to watch the boxing matches or just kind of hang out, and then once he retired, he was pretty much four o'clock every day. Oh, he like lived here, he lived at the sports shop, and it was great. I I love Clifford, but and and so he would when I was really young, he'd be like, This is how you want your hands blocking and jabbing and stuff like that. He's so he's always teaching me boxing. I I never fought in my life, but I've got all these things from Clifford that you'd want you to hit him in the forehead, yep, yeah, and just you know, make sure you get it put put your body into it, you know, step into it and everything, and and then he'd have anything that came up for some kind of fitness gimmick that I was on TV. Jesus Clifford had it like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:34

And he'd talk about and he'd come in and he's like, feel this, feel this. The body blade, the body blade, and he's like, feel this. I've been working out already today.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:42

He wouldn't do it, he would do it all by all those stomach roller things, you know, like the sit-up things, the uh I mean every gimmick.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:50

I remember I went over to his his house on small track there and I walked in the living room and it was like a little mini gym with all his different stuff about it. Clifford, how much of this do you actually use? I use all of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:25:02

All right. Yeah, but anyway speaking of like that, that was like the tough, like he was like uh, you know, he had had that stroke and then he was she was taking care of him and dealing with me while I was a train wreck. You know, just like God, he's like women are tough. You can just never under like a mother's nobody tougher than a mother. Nope. You know, it's just like crazy to think about all the crap they deal with, you know. And just impressive, really. Like just like like you guys better just appreciate your mom. That's not like absolutely because nobody's gonna love you like they do. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:46

Yeah, nope. But the other part, getting back to you, is watching you as you've grown up and you've been competing in all these different things, just going full speed, just going into it and just committing yourself and being no matter what hurdle, you know, breaking your leg, and then a year later you're I think you're back at gold medal playing again. Yeah, the one I missed one year. You missed that one year, but just the the hurdles and getting back up time and again and finding a way forward. And you've had some, like you said with the fishing and stuff, you've had some lucky breaks coming off the mountain. You've had some people call them lucky breaks, but I think it's just being prepared for instances and just not letting anything deter you and just keep figuring out a way to get past the things that are in front of you and yeah, and and making it happen. And you've had a lot of help with your with your parents, um, your wife, you know, there's my dad's a such a hard worker.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:42

Like I think that's like the what instilled all that. Like it's like so many times, like you'd like you're out fishing or doing something, like, oh god, I don't want to go pick that one more set. Or like halibut fishing, it's getting late. But God, if I what if I don't do it? Like, screw it, I'm gonna do it, you know. And then you go get you know, and then you're you get home half a a day earlier. It's like, God, all this this stuff adds up, man. Like you're just like no matter what, like, or go and haul these ten crab pots, or just like this, it all adds up. And it's all just and I I feel like he worked so hard for so long and was able to give us the opportunity to do that. It was just like like this is just how you work. Like you don't complain about nothing. If you want to be successful at it, you just go to work and it is what it is. Like there's only one way to do it, right? Keep working. Yeah. I feel like that like the work ethic definitely. Like he never complained. Never is gone a lot. Like they'd like my I mean my he was he had to work on the slope a lot, like single single mom for like I feel bad because like my my my my wife is a single mom for d way I mean like it's just like just the but it's just it's hard to support a family in hands. Like you'd either don't live here or you'd just find your way through it. You know, and I mean he'd be gone for six weeks at a time, whatever, two months, two months at a time. Come home for who I don't know how long. I would I don't remember all that the details, but I know he was gone a lot of work and and I thank him for all that. You know, like I never needed anything in my life. I had everything I had ever wanted. You know, and then some I feel like I think I feel like my kids deserve the same thing. Like I try to try to keep up with him, I guess. You know.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:39

Those are big shoes to try and keep up with. Yeah, they are. We're gonna when he gets back, I'm gonna try and get him on here too. Yeah, he'll have lots of stories. Get the Charlie Dewitz.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:49

He probably has a better memory. He remembers more crap than I do, and he remembers everything.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:53

Yes, he does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:54

Especially when it comes to guns.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:56

We'll we'll pull we'll pull it out of him.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:58

Yeah. So you good? All right.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:00

Well, thank you, sir. All right, thanks, Dougie. I appreciate it. I appreciate the conversation. And uh I I I know I've been inspired by you numerous times. I hope other people are too, with the things you do and the way you carry yourself. So keep being you.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:16

I try to. I try not to worry about what other people think about me. So that's like one of my biggest things. Like, Lexi had a problem with this. Just uh or just like always worrying about like worrying about what people are like you know what, like you're a good person, like like whatever, like who cares? People's opinions don't matter.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:35

If you if if you're making the choices for the right reasons, exactly that's then whatever falls down, you know, if somebody's gonna have a problem with you, then that's more on them than it is on you.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:45

Yeah, I've never I've never worried about like like tried to like please or like like worried about like what their opinion of me was because I'd I mean yeah, the people should could have easily had a bad opinion about me at a certain time in my life and they still could, whatever it doesn't matter, but I'd figured it out for at least for now anyway. But like I mean that's just like dwelling that kind of stuff in a small town. It just you cannot dwell on that kind of stuff in a small town.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:11

Yeah, and it and it's hard not to sometimes to dwell on that and all because that's what everybody everybody's picking up those little and it's like why can't we accept that we're all humans, none of us are perfect, we're all gonna be making mistakes. Give give give your neighbors and the people around you a little bit the same grace that you would want when you make a mistake, because we're all we're all gonna make them. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 2:30:33

Yeah, that was that was one one of the things that I it took her a while to get coming from a big city to a small town.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:39

There's a lot of eyes on you, yeah. Like a lot of judgment. Oh yeah, especially when you got a husband like this, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:30:44

It's like it's it's gonna be fine. Don't worry about what they think. Like it doesn't matter what they think. Where you know you've done the right thing or you're doing the right thing and you're a good person. That's all that really matters. Like, it doesn't matter. Opinions opinions have yeah, I've never I've never had that problem or you know, like seek people's approval. It's kind of just whatever.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:10

I'm gonna do what I'm I'm doing and hopefully it works out. Like you're doing a good job so far. All right, keep it up. We'll try. All right.

unknown 2:31:19

Thanks.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:19

All right, thanks Dougie. Appreciate it, man. Yep, thank you.