Doug Has Questions
Doug Has Questions is a podcast dedicated to thoughtful conversation that leads to better understanding, connection, and inspiration. Host Douglas Olerud draws on his life experience to explore the stories of the people he’s met along the way.
Doug Has Questions
Episode 31: Lee Robinson; What If Your Detours Are The Point
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Dropping a signed contract into a FedEx box and immediately searching “how to recall a package” is a special kind of panic, and it’s exactly where Lee Robinson found himself after agreeing to buy The Rusty Compass in Haines, Alaska. Lee’s journey to small-town business ownership is anything but linear: film photography in school darkrooms, newspaper assignments in the pre-digital era, a decade of whitewater rafting and outdoor guiding in Colorado, and even life on the road during the 1990s fiber optic boom negotiating right-of-way and crop damages with farmers. Every chapter looks unrelated until you zoom out and see the same throughline: curiosity, people, and learning by doing.
We talk about the harder part most “reinvention” stories skip: what it feels like to be capable but not confident, to enjoy students but still feel unsettled as a teacher, and to chase stability while craving adventure. Lee shares how he meets Darcy, how faith stays constant when the plan keeps changing, and how family decisions reshape career decisions. He’s candid about real estate during the 2007 to 2008 crash, the pressure of debt, and the realization that selling yourself is exhausting when you already doubt yourself.
Then the Alaska leap becomes real. Lee walks through espresso fundamentals, barista training, and why great coffee comes down to details like grind, pressure, extraction time, and milk microfoam. He also tells the unglamorous truth: the ferry move, living above the shop, the brutal first summer, and the moment COVID pulls him back into teaching, only to prove that doing two big jobs at 70% is a fast track to burnout. What emerges is a story about entrepreneurship, community, and building a warm “third place” where locals and travelers feel welcome.
If you like stories about career change, small business ownership, specialty coffee, moving to Alaska, and finding purpose without a perfect plan, hit subscribe, share this with a friend who’s at a crossroads, and leave a review. What’s the biggest leap you’ve taken, or the one you’re still debating?
Welcome And Fort Collins Roots
SPEAKER_05Welcome to this edition of Doug Has Questions. Today my guest is Lee Robinson, owner, proprietor of Rusty Compass, with a long backstory that we're going to get into with all sorts of cool adventures. Welcome to the show, Lee.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Doug. Happy to be here.
SPEAKER_05Great to have you here. So let's let's let's start like we do with everybody. Let's start in the beginning. Where did Lee Robinson grow up? Where were the younger years at?
SPEAKER_00You know, it's a good question. I've I've uh my dad, I was I'm a military brat, so I was in the Air Force when I was young. Uh actually born on Andrews Air Force Base in Washington, DC. And uh from there lived in England for a few years, and then but primarily I got the best of both worlds. I didn't have to um move around too much when I was a kid. By the time I was in first grade, we settled in Fort Collins. My dad had retired from the Air Force, so that's where I grew up, Fort Collins, Colorado. And um just pretty typical, kind of a bedroom community home, you know, great mom, great dad, and uh got one brother four years older than me, and so pretty, pretty, pretty chill existence. Yeah, it was pretty good, pretty good growing up in Fort Collins.
SPEAKER_05What were what were the things that you did besides school with with being in Colorado? Was there a lot of outdoor adventures as a family?
SPEAKER_00So I was kind of as a suburban kid, I was more into sort of the local organized sports. Um and growing up and through high school, I guess you could say, I tried everything at least once. But I never really sunk my teeth in any one thing, and it's I mean we'll get into it later, but that's sort of a pattern that you see later in life. But um it was cool. I got, you know, I did so a lot of organized sports. Yeah, we did some camping, like car camping, and you know, uh my dad had a classic VW camper van. We did a couple, you know, fun camping trips and that, but um, not too like super crazy, nothing super adventurous, but um, but I did enjoy, you know, I was I was pretty wiry and tiny when I was a kid, so I mean I only I graduated at high school, I was probably a buck thirty, maybe maybe
Learning Photography In The Darkroom
SPEAKER_00a little more, but not much. Um but I think that said, like that's one of the reasons I got into one of my favorite hobbies is photography. And uh that's that's definitely one of the things. So since I didn't sink my teeth in any one sport, I just I ended up photographing everybody else.
SPEAKER_05So did that did that start when you were in school, this love of photography?
SPEAKER_00Definitely. So I had a fun, you know, I had a couple good teachers in in not only junior high, but high school, uh, a couple of uh good high school teachers, and then one in particular took me under his wing and and just and I worked hard at it and it and it turned into my kind of my main gig in high school. I we had a pretty big high school where I grew up. Um I can't remember how many now, but probably close to a thousand kids, uh, where I was the you know, ended up the head photographer of the newspaper, head photographer of the yearbook, and got to do all the sports and all the events and so you talk about starting in junior high though.
SPEAKER_05So did they actually have photography classes in junior high school that you could take?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And that was that was I'm I'm guessing film days? Oh yeah. Yeah, what on the day? I'm just guessing about the currently.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't want to date you or anything, but yeah. I mean film, yeah. I mean, we learned how to yeah, we had dark room. Oh yeah, so in it, but it was cool. In junior high school, we learned the basics of photography. We learned how to process our own film, and we learned how to process, you know, black and white. Uh, we did other fun things with like box cameras and little things like that. Um and then in high school, I just I loved the image. I loved, you know, like for me, I I wasn't much of a reader. I was I I was visual. And so I just I would go through National Geographic and be like, yeah, that's great. I want to, you know, that's the kind of photographer I want to be, or sports illustrated, you know, anything like that. It so I I chased after it a little bit in high school. I don't know, I just became a natural at it, I guess. Uh, to the point that even after high school, I took a year off after after I graduated, and in that year I just knocked on the door of the local newspaper and said, Hey, can I just tag along with one of your photographers to see how this works? And uh that turned into kind of a regular they they invited me in and I got to just learn from the pros. And they actually the first day I was on a s out with a guy, he got called to an emergency and said, Here, take my camera, photograph the game. It was a high school sports game, and I'd been used to that since I was in high school. And he says, You you shoot the game and I'll go take care of the emergency, and that's how it all started.
SPEAKER_05So with that year while you were doing that, was that mainly sports, or were you doing other photography for the newspaper as well?
SPEAKER_00All sorts of photography. Just you know, they they'd hand you an assignment and you'd go you'd go cover it, and usually hang out with the reporter. This is back when newspapers were big. Like it's kind of the heyday of of the newspaper, like 80s, 90s. Um, no online stuff, nothing digital, everything's hand processed, deadlines are important, you know. Your writing, writing is important, you have to learn how to, you know, write your own cut lines and the whole business. So it was kind of a cool business to be a part of for a while. And I did it only in short spurts. So like I I really got into that, you know, like February through June, and then I headed off to my other adventure. But um, but what happened was the relationships were developed, and so I was able to come back and summer breaks or or Christmas breaks, and if you know, or like after I graduated college even years later, I came back and did a lot of stringing work and eventually worked into a full-time position because a photographer left. So um it just it was important that that building those relationships.
SPEAKER_05So when you were doing this, did you I mean the guy lets you use his camera at that one, uh his equipment at the one game. I'm assuming you've got your own equipment too, or were you just using it? Right.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think in fact, I s I I definitely had my own. Um and so I he I think he gave me one of his bodies, I used one of my bodies. I had a couple of bodies to shoot the the game with, and you know, I mean it wasn't anything spectacular, but it was you know, I was nervous as heck because I'm shooting for the the paper now. It's like different than high school. But but you know, I I was I did a good job and got a picture in the paper the next day, and you know, as an 19-year-old, when newspapers are big and you're working for Gannett, uh, which is the the parent company of uh see your name next to the picture, it kind of felt good. And this is the same newspaper that I was uh paper boy for for years, you know, five years before that. So um that was actually probably my first job was delivering the local newspaper where you ride your bike around the neighborhood and toss the paper and make sure you get it on the porch. So I have a long history with the the newspaper industry.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that you were saying you did that from February to June, then your next adventure, which was uh so that led right as a as a high school kid in a youth group, we went
Noah's Ark And Outdoor Guiding Life
SPEAKER_00to a place called Noah's Ark. Noah's Ark Whitewater Rafting and Adventure Company. Um and then Where was that located? So that's in Buna Vista, Colorado. And um so I grew up in Fort Collins, which is a big city, like north of Denver, but this is a little tiny mountain community, and in a lot of ways, a lot like Haynes is now. Um but as a camper we went there, and I just remember we were gonna go whitewater rafting and go backpacking, and my first memory of this place was that it was probably like I was just picturing where it was set, right? Like in the mountains with trees all around, all of this. And we show up and it's like right on the highway. Like what a this is not what I expected. Like this place is sits right on the highway, but it's you know, the river is right there too. But I'm like, this okay, well, we'll see how it is. Well, turned into the probably the best, you know, the best week at that time of of my my young life. It was fun. We had uh we did rock rock climbing, rappelling, white water rafting, and for a suburban kid, like I had never done any of this. Pretty much my first time doing all of it. So that I was so that was your first taste of the out of the world. That was my first so like 88, 89 as a high school kid, and then so after being a year off out of high school, I was like, I'm up, I'm definitely gonna apply for a job there. And it was a competitive place to get hired at. It was you know a very highly sought-after, you know, rafting job in the mountains. You know, I just I thought there's no way. In fact, if I applied today for that same job, I'm sure I'd get turned down. But at that point, that year that I took off, I also got my EMT certificate. Okay. And I think that plus just my genuine interest in ministry, because this place was also a ministry, um, and my interest in people and my interest in learning how to raft and learning how to be in the outdoors as a suburban kid from Fort Collins. They can teach all of those skills, and they gave me a chance. So I jumped at it, and so I left my photography behind and jumped into whitewater rafting and you didn't think about combining the two? I would later combine the two actually quite a bit. We in just little ways, you know. I I I ended up doing a lot of photography for for Noah's Ark, um, just some of their promotional stuff, but also for groups that came in. I would always put slideshows together with real slides um for the staff at the end of the summers. Like it became a really special way to interact with the other staff and with uh the groups that came in. So and then I would do some other uh adventure photography or basically my photography grew into like more of like independent, just you know, gig work, um, which then turned into wedding and portrait photography later on in my life.
SPEAKER_05But so at Noah's Ark when they're when they're doing these are these just like day trips, short day trips with the rafting and stuff.
SPEAKER_00The rafting there, it's classic Whitewater section. If you've never been, it's the headwaters or close to the headwaters of the Arkansas River. And it is perfect for daily raft trips and for getting into Whitewater, like introducing people to Whitewater. So our basic trip is a 10-mile trip. You can do it as a half-day trip and then a and then an all-day trip. It is be probably, and I think it still holds the title of one of the most commercially sections, you know, commercially rafted sections of Whitewater in the in the country during those three months. So um it's highly monitored and regulated by the you know the different agencies, but um it is a classic place to do to take, you know.
SPEAKER_05So were there other people doing rafting, or was it just you guys with Norwich? You had the whole conversation.
SPEAKER_00There were definitely several companies, and it is permitted, and the permitting process became more and more strict as as time went on while I was there. But in 1990, when I started, it was it wasn't as strict. Um, but there are definitely many other raft companies on this section of river. I couldn't even tell you how many there are now, probably 30 or 40. Wow. But um there some of them are big and some of them are little. And when I started, Noah's Ark had started in 83, and they had six people. By the time I started, there was about 60 people on staff, and I think today they have over well over a hundred. Um so they've expanded their their programming. So, you know, and when I was there, we also did backpacking trips, and that was so the rafting was open towards to everybody that just wanted it people driving in, groups, just whoever wanted to go. Um but the re the backpack trips were definitely geared towards you know, youth groups and other organizations, like Young Life or um could be the Boy Scouts, you know, there'd be other groups, so we would take them on three to six-day raft trip uh backpacking trips.
SPEAKER_05Back and trips, yeah. So it was some of that because you were talking about like with the repelling and everything, did they have a base camp there where these groups could come in and if they're doing repelling if they're doing or is it just a campground that they're camping the whole time?
SPEAKER_00So the Noah's Ark had some right there on the river, had tents, and you could do a land-based adventure where they'd stay there and then we'd take you rack rock climbing for a day, or uh we'd take you on the raft trip for a day, maybe a day hike on a 14er for a day. Uh, or you would base you would do most of those activities, but then your backpack trip you'd leave for how many ever days? So it was cool, and it was a cool way for me to learn all of that because like I said, I didn't grow up doing any of it. Um and I find that a lot of the guys and gals that worked there all had this similar background, and they wanted people who were you know teachable and yet had those relational skills and could communicate with with others, and I think that was what was special about Noah's is just the just the relationships and the ability uh to develop those with other people.
SPEAKER_05How many years did you do that for?
SPEAKER_00Well, I probably overstayed my welcome, like most people honestly stayed for about two or three years because it was their college job, yeah, and move on. I think I was there probably a decade, maybe more, um, in some capacity. So I was probably there for about six full-time summers and then a few part-time summers because of another job I had would take me away for a little while. But by this point in life I could cut show up, and if they needed help, they would find a place. An experienced raft guy was was nice to have around. And somebody who could drive a bus and uh do all that stuff. Um definitely a certain point in that time I was, you know, you get a little bit tired of the daily grind of doing the same type of raft trip over and over again. So eventually, eventually I got a teaching job in Salida, which was just down the road from Noah's Ark.
SPEAKER_05And so that's when the when you weren't doing this in the summer, when you went back to college, you went to get your degree to be a teacher?
SPEAKER_00Right. So I did end up going back to school, went to Montana State to start, went to the University of Idaho for a year, loved it, but left there so I could get my credential to teach in Colorado.
Fiber Boom Roadwork And Farmer Relations
SPEAKER_00So I finished my college at UNC in Greeley. So in 95 I graduated, but I didn't get a teaching job right away. I spent five years being a photographer. Um also during the dot-com boom, I did a lot of stuff. I worked for telecom, so my brother was kind of got me into that because he that was his kind of what were you doing for telecom? So in the telecom world, I worked for a place called TCG, which eventually was a local telephone company, which eventually got bought out by ATT when they deregulated and allowed long distance companies to own local telephone companies. So I just I was an order manager. I had an office job for a year. I had a cubicle and it drove me bonk. Like not even a year. I lasted 11 months and then I quit. But I stayed in telecom because when I quit, I went and worked on the road doing outside build stuff when they were doing the laying new fiber for the dot-com boom. I don't know how else to put it. Okay.
SPEAKER_05Uh so play throughout the helping run fiber across the country.
SPEAKER_00Essentially, yeah, level three, AT ⁇ T, Sprint, MCI, all these big companies were racing to get more capacity in the ground. Um and they built it out, they overbuilt it, and it was good because that's how we were able to do what we do today with all the information that goes over these lines. Well, so I worked for a company that did right-of-way, like staking the line, like where these lines are going to go in. And then I ended up working like as a liaison between construction companies and the landowners, because we're doing these long-distance networks, so like I might be on a line between Denver and Chicago, and we're going through farmer after farmer after farmer's, you know, field, and we're using existing easements, but destroying their crops, like just destroying any crop that's.
SPEAKER_05Oh, they must have loved you when you'd show up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so there was so we would pay crop damages, and that's kind of where I came in. I'd help, you know, I have a formula and what we're gonna pay them, and we we wrote checks. So that's there was some interesting moments out there, but most of them were good old American, you know, farmers not willing to make too much of a fuss, but there were a couple people who wanted to make a fuss.
SPEAKER_05So there you said there's existing easements. Was that for phone access? That was already was it already buried cable? Was there some of this over here? Right.
SPEAKER_00So there was there was already, if you recall, like early 80s was like the first push of getting fiber optic cable, our whole country got connected. And um I can remember one of the commercials, you know, it's like a a pin, you can hear a pin drop, and there's like the slow motion pin bouncing. That was that was you know, just discussing like the greatness of fiber optic ability and how clear the line was. So there was a build-out in '83, primarily. Um, so this was reusing that same easement, but but about 15 minutes 15 years later. And so some farmers were part of that first time around and they were they understood that this was some farmers were like, no, that was a one-time thing, and you can't cut. And so they would, but you know, if lawyers had to get involved, they would, but usually that didn't, that didn't happen. They just you know, I think, you know, as long as you could make it right, and if the if the construction crews could put it back together as, you know, and make it right, and then they also got paid, then everything worked out usually pretty good. But I only you know, that was a couple of years, three, two, two to three years I did that off and on, because it was sort of a project-based job. Um and um you would end in one segment and then take some time off and then go do another. It's kind of like a pipeliner, I guess, is what the because I worked with a lot of pipeliners. Um that's what they described it as. Like, so you'd just be on again, off again.
SPEAKER_05Was good money anyhow.
SPEAKER_00I mean you got it it was great money. Uh yeah, definitely. And and it was great money in part because wherever I went, I knew somebody because of my ten years at Noah's Art. Okay. So the reason that was helpful is if I needed to stay on a couch or I did a lot of couch surfing during this time. And we got paid per diem for hotels and food. So I just pocketed that I pocketed the money and had a great it was just a great way to reconnect with people I knew from my rafting days. So it was it was a fun time in life like it was the 90s were were fun just because I got to explore a lot of the back roads of of the United States because we were on a lot of back roads what what area you'd mentioned Denver to Chicago but what uh what other states were you involved with with this where you're driving across I had been in a a lot in Utah um we did a bunch in Texas and Arkansas we did a bunch through Kansas um and uh Colorado I did a lot in Colorado as well uh Missouri so we just did covered quite a bit of territory we we did we covered I mean it was going in everywhere they had to build it out everywhere so there were crews there were different crews and different people going everywhere and different you know land service type companies that were involved in this project and was it the same company that you were working for that was like hey we need somebody to do this or once you had that first job was there a network that hey we got this going on I I always worked I always worked for one guy and one I'd think fairly small firm but he ran crews all over the country but there were a lot of outfits doing the same thing what he was doing. You know and they contract to like ATT for instance they would get the contract and send people but there's no way because of the build out and how big it was he he couldn't cover it all so other other people would. So yeah it was it was cool it was eye opening too I got to learn a lot about I don't know construction and living on the road and what what people do for a living and also a lot about just America like just a lot about small towns and probably watched a few you know little league games that I hadn't knew nobody in because there's nothing else to do right like you're out in the middle of nowhere so um uh it was it was a good time it was I I remember it fondly and when I was done I remember just being ready to be done you know I can um I can remember one time just being on the road I I turned 30 doing this job and I remember that song came out the the next 30 years you know yeah and I just remember oh man I gotta do something else with my next 30 years because I mean this is fun and I can remember calling mom up on my on my birthday and be like mom I'm you know this is great and all but I'm you know I'm getting older and I think all this riding around's giving me a hemorrhoid and I just this is not any fun anymore I gotta do something else with my next 30 years. She had a good laugh at me but she's like well you did get a college degree yeah why don't you go back why don't you try your hand at teaching something like okay so no I just I knew I wasn't getting any younger and that's actually that's sort of what happened I went I called it good quit quit while I was ahead and so for that for that time period I I think I looking at it it seems like you had a ton of freedom that you're you're going through different things you get to have all these cool experiences but there's also maybe a little bit of an uncertainty because you got you got the potential to do in Noah's Ark in the summer you've got this but it all depends on what contracts your boss gets as far as doing the the land management aspect. Very little stability in all of that so when you start to like survey the landscape of your life and you're like well these are cool and they're great experiences but when it comes right down to it if I want a family or if I want to do something you know where I can look back and see if I can you know build something I I probably need to kind of shift gears a little.
SPEAKER_05Had you met your wife yet?
SPEAKER_00No or was that after you started teaching that was that was after I started teaching and actually pretty directly after I started teaching so so really in 2001 w in the um it was in the spring of 2001 that I stopped doing the fiber stuff and then that summer I went back to Noah's again did one more one more stint as a as a guide and and but during that time a teaching job became available in Celida which was right down the road from from Buna Vista and so I
Teaching Career Starts And Self-Doubt
SPEAKER_00threw in and got hired. So that was my first teaching gig you know what classes were you teaching uh middle school seventh grade basically like social studies classes yeah history geography how big a school was that you know in Salida I had 5,000 or so people and the classes were about 30 okay 25 to 30 per per class and you know full load so six classes um of seventh graders so many of whom I still keep in touch with today it's kind of cool as a lot of teachers do but um so that's when I you know that's when I threw in as a teacher and and finally decided to put my degree to use and and um it's funny because I I also did apply for a job when I first graduated um college in 95 got offered a position in a different town one that I hadn't been to before um but I turned it down. I just I what was the reason why I just I don't know I wasn't ready I wasn't ready and I was probably scared a little unconfident um I think that was a big piece of it but I you know I had racked up a little debt going to school and and I thought I knew you know teaching in the mountains in Colorado was great but the pay sucked and I was just like I don't all of that just I just was too I wasn't right I just wasn't ready. And even when I took the job in 2001 I mean that wasn't even 2000 a year I don't think even really even in 01 it was like it was such they were I don't know it's changed a little now but I think it's teaching has always been that profession that's you know I think they could teach always an issue it seems like and anyway it was the right time to jump in and I taught and I I think it was a good job for me at that time. I got to a point where I decided I I think teaching's always been something I thought I'd be okay at but it wasn't a passion of mine to be a teacher per so I just in college I was like well what do I what do I do? Like do I get a what do I get a degree in? And I'm you know I think a lot of people struggle with that. I mean I have friends who were dialed in and knew exactly that they wanted to you know what they were gonna do and they're gonna be an engineer or they're gonna be a lawyer or whatever. I just never had that so but teaching was something I could tolerate I think so I just like okay I'll go for it. Got my teaching degree sat on it a while then I taught you know enjoyed it enjoyed the students it was a lot like working with students as a uh raft guide and uh you know mountaineering guide it's just kind of this I like that aspect of it right I like that aspect of it coming alongside young people and you know helping them to see the best of themselves and so I enjoyed that piece of it but I think that the act you know the teaching part of teaching like really knowing your subject matter and um though I'm interested in it I was never a master at it and I think that also played with my confidence so I never ever felt fully confident in myself as a teacher um I always felt confident in myself with others but never in the role you know that kind of that kind of leadership role.
SPEAKER_05And I think that always just played with my psyche like in the back of my mind and so it wore on me I think after so after about even even after a few years of kind of going the same just teaching the same classes for a few years you didn't that confidence didn't grow at all that it's like hey these kids are getting some of this that I I must be doing something right there I never dialed I was probably the worst at like reusing the stuff that I had last year or I would use parts of what I had but I was always trying to like no I think that's I think that's great but I what what I I what I'm not saying you're gonna teach the same stuff every year but after three or four years.
SPEAKER_00I definitely got more confident at just being in front and like being with kids but as far as it like pushing my desire to to want to stay in that I guess I never I never settled there I never it just never it never clicked for me like this this yeah this is what I want to do for the next 30 years. Like what's and I think that five you know that was always on my in the back of my head like what's what could I do next or what what else is out there? And I think if for better or for worse like it's worked out well but I there's also times where I'm like gosh it would have been really nice to have taught like had I started then I'd be 25 years in now you know I'd be looking at you know retirement or close to retirement in the with the teaching world I don't regret at all leaving at when I did but it the thought crosses my mind sometimes like what what would life have looked
Meeting Darcy And Choosing Family First
SPEAKER_00look like but it was fun um so it it was fun teaching and again good relationships and good experience. Didn't burn any bridges you know just when it was time to leave it was time to leave and that's that's where I met Darcy you know that's where I met my wife and she was so was she a teacher at the same time she was a teacher we were both first year teachers. I didn't start till I was 30. She started right out of college so you know um what classes was she teaching she was a high school teacher and she was uh language arts yeah um English language arts and she had taught she grew up in Salida came back got hired at the high school that she was that she went to and um yeah so I saw her on the first day of of school and I'm like wow she's pretty you know like gotta get to know her but we were in different buildings because in our district you know we had much different we had different buildings and we'd see each other and there was a first year teacher program that all the first year teachers had to attend so that's where I got to know her a little bit but I'm a slow mover that's all I got to say about that. So that was an 01 and um you know finally well actually what happened I guess I don't know to shift gears a little bit what happened with with that is she we had a uh a thing where we would do the first year teacher meeting also with the Buna Vista school district so some of our meetings were there in Buny 30 miles away so we would drive I knew what she drove and I she had broken down actually at the side of the road so of course I'm gonna pull over and and help her out so she was with driving with somebody so we gave I was with somebody so the two of us gave those two a ride and that's basically how how we met but so she sent me uh a thank you back in my classroom a few days later some home baked cookies and nice I was like like do you guys think you know my seventh graders are like ooh I'm like what it's nothing I gave her a ride they're like you know anyway they're like Mr. Robinson's getting married no you guys are jumping the gun like this they read up the situation better than you did very much though very much so there was there's no doubt so uh we just so that was that's kind of how we got to know each other and if so how did did you write her a thank you note for the cookies or did you invite her for dinner or something what how'd you respond to getting let's go get coffee we get this is also where our coffee coffee endeavor started so we we would go to a local coffee shop and grade papers together but she wanted I um yeah she she us apart from the cookie she wanted to also take me and buy me coffee so we we did that and got to know each other a little bit and um I think she choked a little bit on her coffee when I told her I was 30. Because I looked like I was 25.
SPEAKER_01I looked young but she's like oh geez so what did I get myself into um exactly she's gonna be filed for Social Security soon 30 years old.
SPEAKER_00Yeah she I don't she wasn't she wasn't excited about that but you won her over anyhow I won her over anyhow and and we did we started dating but that like I said I'm a slow mover and you know I almost let a good thing go. So we were we dated mostly on but a couple of moments off you know a couple months here and there um for the next three years so or two two and a half years I guess um but we got but then we I closed the deal I finally closed the deal finally closed the deal yeah in 05 so that was that's when we got married and and um it's 21 years now yep this year it'll be we'll be 21 for sure and it's been great like I
Faith As The Constant In Chaos
SPEAKER_00that has grounded me probably you know more better than anything and I think just family life and and married life has been awesome. I think it's a gift it's a gift from God just to be able to um pour into each other's life and then and I think out of that has come so many other blessings uh honestly like we have done it we have adventured life you know together and through all the different you know all of my wishy washiness with all the different careers and all the different things I want to do she has been right there behind me just going do it like yeah it's great.
SPEAKER_05So was she um you had said your faith was a big thing in your life what when you guys were together was she also extremely faithful or is that something that grew for sure like that we were equally yoked in that sense. And so that was that was a good match right at the start with it.
SPEAKER_00That was an important thing uh I think in the way she was raised it was definitely an important uh thing for me and uh in the way I was raised and uh and which just got strengthened in my time uh at Noah's and with the with the crew there uh that being a faith based based ministry um and all that so uh when we met that was you know front and center and um that was a really important part of our relationship so um and and it continues to be I think you know to this day so and that's um we're committed uh to to raising our kids in that way and it's you know again I think that's gotta be number one or else you know I think it just I think life is harder if it's not so that's been a that's been a really strong touchstone for you throughout your life hasn't it it is that's you know if anything has been the constant in my chaos it I'd say it'd be my faith and and and do you do you feel that you call it chaos but have you ever wondered that that's God's way of just like guiding you into certain situations to give you a lot of things. Oh God uses chaos yeah 100% yeah no I don't I don't for a thing I you know I've things happen for a reason definitely and I think God uses um you know I look at my brother and his stability in one job and and what he's been able to accomplish with his family and where he's at and he uses people like me who are chaotic and or you know just not settled down or always looking for something new. So I think that yeah that's definitely God's way in my life is to use different you know and I've been able to weave all these experiences into like there's different there's a lot of crossover in the skills that I have um to the different jobs that I've had so uh those things have been you know you can you look back now and you can see it all come together but this is not a path that I could have planned like ahead of time. Whereas some guy you know getting a job with XYZ company can say yeah I'm gonna climb the ladder there. You could see how that could pat you know math out but you can't really see how my career trajectory maths out it doesn't work if you plan it that way. But like I said it's it's um it it has and I'm I'm grateful.
SPEAKER_05So but all the yeah all those different experiences have brought you to this moment with your wife with the family that you have around you. Absolutely yeah it's never and and and that and I think that's important. That's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on here is to talk about that because a lot of people have when they're younger there's a lot of people I've talked to that they have this idea of this is how their life's gonna go. Right? They've got like you're talking about it's gonna go this step this step this step and and then when that one of those steps gets pulled out from under them they're not quite sure how to react to that because that was they were so focused on that and not realizing that the that step was pulled out for a reason. You're supposed to be there there's a detour here that's gonna give you something else that's going to bring you to possibly a better place than you originally planned and figure out a way to get through that disruption or that change in your plan realizing that maybe this is going to be for the better at the end. There's gonna be there this is happening for a reason.
SPEAKER_00I think and you don't see it in the moment right you don't and I think it's really one of the things I discovered when I was guiding and there's so many different analogies you can make with rafting and with being in the outdoors in general but one of the one of the things I remember and I don't I think this relates but when you're climbing a 14er and you're just you know a big like for me 14ers are big so like you there's easy spots there's hard spots but sometimes you're in the trees you don't know where you're going even when you get out of the trees you're like oh gosh the mountain's so big and it's hard like it's hard but when you get to the top you have that epiphany right but not only that you look around and you got that 360 degree view all those things that were so hard almost seem to flatten out like they it it they weren't like just in that moment of grandeur you can just see you can see the path that you got that took you there but it also you realize that it wasn't that the things that were really big maybe aren't as big as you think they are sometimes and I think that if anything in my teaching career I think that's one of the things I've been able to come alongside I mean I got along I felt like I got along well with most of the students I taught the ones that really had it dialed in I think they're sometimes the most challenging ones to teach and to teach well because you want to take them to another level because they're so dialed in and they're they're gonna be successful. But the ones that I really gravitated towards probably were the ones that didn't have it dialed in or was that you know because I also struggled with confidence so much in life that I could I could kind of identify and pick out those ones that you could tell were struggling or didn't think they could do anything or didn't think they could be anything. And I think I try to come alongside those like specifically like try to come alongside those kind of students or kids or young people and just and really just say hey if somebody like me can can make it to where I am today you can too like you can definitely make it. Like I've I definitely don't have it dialed in um and but just to enc but I'm happy with where I'm at like and just to be able to tell them and show them that you can achieve you know um a good deal of satisfaction uh even if you don't feel like a confident person or don't feel like you've got it dialed in. God will use you in ways you don't even know and but just keep taking one step at a time. You know don't give up don't um don't sell yourself short. Make good decisions. It's important who you surround yourself with Um get good friend groups, you know. And uh you can you can do a lot. And you know, that was kind of my my thing for young people, for anyone really, but um I think my experience growing up, I think that helped. It gave me some something to talk about with kids or to to encourage kids with.
SPEAKER_05So I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up.
SPEAKER_00Well, aren't we all? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. One of these days I'm gonna figure it out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I hope I do eventually.
SPEAKER_05But then again, I don't know if I want to grow up either.
SPEAKER_00Right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's uh that's a that's the tricky part. If I figure it out, then I have to grow up and do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I it's yeah, for sure. I it's funny how quickly it all goes. I mean, and and as long as you you know, you want to keep your head and your eyes on the skyline, right? You want to keep your your nose in the wind and just keep going for it and exp trying new things and doing adventures. And it's not to say that I haven't well man, I'm definitely not as fit as I was, you know, 30 years ago. And you know, there's certain things I can't do now that I could do, but I think for the most part, we're we're still adventurous, you know. Who knows? There might be yet another adventure out there for for us, but it's really cool. Um it's been like having kids has been some of the that's been the greatest reward of my life, like um, and just being able to come alongside them and when was your oldest kid born? Oh seven.
SPEAKER_05Oh seven.
SPEAKER_00Right, so we and that's also the year, so kind of back to
Real Estate Gamble During The Crash
SPEAKER_00that whole time of teaching, that was my last year teaching. So all in one fail swoop, we Darcy and I both quit our job. We were pregnant and then had a baby, and we moved and started a new career all in one, you know, one swoop. So in 07 we moved out of the small mountain town and back to Fort Collins. That's where I knew the most people, and then I tried my hand at real estate.
SPEAKER_05Oh, real estate broker.
SPEAKER_00I was I was a I was a full-time real estate agent for uh four solid years.
SPEAKER_05How did how did what what prompted that from we've got two stable teaching jobs? Let's try something totally new that I don't have any experience with restless.
SPEAKER_00I knew a couple people that were in it, it seemed like a good gig. And like I said, the pay wage in Solida wasn't spectacular. Yeah. I mean, two two teaching two teaching salaries, you could make it, but we again like I think Darcy also was sort of ready to be done. Didn't necessarily want to be a career teacher and try to raise kids, and we didn't want to farm our kids out to babysitting and anything like that. But just we just we wanted to be committed to keeping Darcy at home.
SPEAKER_05So you were going it you're making it work with two teaching salaries, but going back to one, it was gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00It wasn't gonna happen. So we we sold our places and we each had bought our own house before we got married, so that was cool. But we were able to sell those. But if you recall the timing of 2007, 2008. Yeah, not the best time. It was a bad time, it was a hard time. We sold, I think, at an okay time, but it hadn't quite hit yet. But getting into the real estate business was tough.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I fought tooth and nail for four years, and I did okay, but I ultimately just didn't like the profession.
SPEAKER_05Like what was it that you didn't like about it?
SPEAKER_00I did, I did alright. I was, you know, I'm personable, I do okay with others, I'm I can pay attention to detail enough on contracts and learned all of that, got a couple of good certifications, but at the end of the day, I just settled what I felt like I was selling was, and maybe this is where I went wrong, but what I felt like I was selling was me. Like I was trying to, and if you're not a confident person, which I never really was, like selling you to people, selling a product you don't like that much, isn't it the best way to do it? It's a challenge. It is a challenge. So I just I just felt like in in that in everybody, you know, it was so competitive in color in Fort Collins, in Colorado, it still is competitive real estate. Um and so you you really have to sell yourself and be really good at what you do with contracts and with negotiating and with with all of that. That I just I just after four years, and which is funny because in 2011, you're like, you're starting to come out of it, and you're like, you can see that it's gonna get good.
SPEAKER_05It's gonna get real good.
SPEAKER_00It's gonna like if I had stayed with it, I would have been like financially it would have been rewarding. But I don't think in my I don't I I would never have set well with me. It just never would have. And but I was thankful for the experience, once again, and to this day I you know I still fall back on some of my knowledge in real estate. But um, and I I'm totally down with like real estate investing. I think that's a great, a great way to diversify your your your savings and your portfolio and all that, but I don't I just as a real estate agent it wasn't me. I didn't want to be a salesman for me, basically. Which those so real estate and photography is like that too. Like I had to be a salesman for me in that way also. And again, it's like I just relied too much on me. I didn't I really didn't like that. And so I had to find other way, other things to do.
Back To Teaching And Wanting More
SPEAKER_00So in 2011, we had struggled for four years, we were definitely in debt. Um and um, but we're okay. It wasn't unmanageable, but it just wasn't a good feeling. We decided we would throw back I would throw back into teaching and I would apply for one job. And if I got that one job, I would go. And it was back in Buna Vista, and I had applied for a job there and been turned down before. But I was I was I applied for some teaching jobs in Fort Collins and they weren't hiring because the economy kind of was still sucky. But I applied for this one job in Buny and and they they hired me, and I was like, oh, like that was like a shock, actually, because I'd been out, I'd been out of teaching for four years, I wasn't up on my certification, so I had to but I went and taught high school history in in actually the same school that I had done my student teaching in and had some good relationships with with other teachers and stuff, so it was fun. We got to go back to Bunavista, we left our Fort Collins life behind. My mom and dad were there, and that was hard. I mean, it was hard because there was we developed some good relationships and people, but we were going to a place where we had good relationships and people, yeah. So how how far between them? It was like three hours, three and a half hours.
SPEAKER_05So you can still go back and see mom and dad.
SPEAKER_00Like here, it's that seems like a walk in the park, yeah, like living in here now, but back then it was like, oh gosh, it's three hours. So long. Um but it was we loved like Fort Collins is great, but you know, it was growing and getting congested and and busy. Buna Vista was still a charming little mountain town and and and a and a great school in a great school district. Um as we find out, it's also growing leaps and bounds, and it's really congested now, too, for a for a small touristy, you know, destination sort of mountain town. But uh it was good for us to go go there, and that's where we were for the last six years before we moved here.
SPEAKER_05So we jumped back into 2011 to 2017, you're teaching at Buena Vista.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_05Darcy's stay-at-home mom.
SPEAKER_00Still a stay-at-home mom, and we also at this point had decided to homeschool our kids. So not only is she a stay-at-home mom, but she's a stay-at-home teacher.
SPEAKER_05And how many kids at this time?
SPEAKER_00By the time we moved back to Buny, we have two kids. So Lily was born in Salida, but we moved immediately to Fort Collins, and then McConnell was born in Fort Collins. So he was about four, I guess. No, I guess he was only two. He was two when we moved back to um to Buna Vista. Okay. And then a couple of years after we moved there, three years or so, Grady was born. So um, so that's so he was born in the same hospital that Lily was. Uh but uh yeah, so that we taught again and I I got back into it and it was okay, but I still had that but those same feelings about teaching kind of resurfaced. You know, I never felt like I got dialed in, I never felt like this is my sweet spot, this is what I should do. Um, even though I approached it, like once we decided we were going back, it's like if we're going back, this is it. Like you because I'm what? In 2011, I'm I don't know, oh I'm 40, right? So I'm 40 years old, and it's like there's no more, you can't be bouncing around anymore. Like you gotta dial in or else. But that's a lie. That's also a lie.
SPEAKER_05It is, but that was your plan when you went back as like, okay, I'm we're going here, I'm gonna be a kid.
SPEAKER_00You put my nose to the grindstone and just do it. Yeah, Univist is a great community, and it is, it still is, and I know a lot of good friends who are still teaching there and still living there, and it's it's a wonder, you know, it wouldn't have been a great place to raise kids. Outdoorsy, totally all of that. So I had it, but the job still just didn't sit well with my soul. Like it just was not there. I didn't have that desire, I didn't have the, you know, and I didn't want to be that teacher who ignored that and was still teaching 20 years from now that the kids were like, dude is done. He's checked on five years ago. I didn't want to be that teacher, and I was still engaged with the kids, you know, and I was still trying to be engaging, but I couldn't, I knew I couldn't sustain, it just took so much more energy to do that because it wasn't in my sweet spot, I don't think. Um but again, like God uses things, right? For for the for his purposes, for his good purposes. And so that was a good and necessary time, you know, and and so that that time was and it was rich, it was a great place to start raising kids, and um you know we it was a it was a perfect time to I don't know, just to we were closer to Darcy's family also at that time, so we were spending a lot of time um because they lived in Salida, a lot of them, so um so we got to really uh build that relationship, those relationships better uh and stronger. So that was perfect. So it was perfect in so many ways. Um but as far as um professionally um and as far as like answering my call, I didn't feel like I was Do you think it was just the the teaching?
SPEAKER_05Do you think if maybe you had been at a more Christian-centric school that that might have fit you better?
SPEAKER_00Or it was just I don't I don't think that that would have helped. Okay. I and I did explore that, I did explore that idea. Um in fact there's a cool Christian school there at Buna Vista that we actually sent our kids to for one year. Um but uh I don't think it would have ultimately been I think the the the act of teaching still wouldn't have been any it wouldn't have felt any different for me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and it didn't satisfy my desire to do but then going back a little bit, you seemed to really enjoy the time at Noah's Ark.
SPEAKER_05Wasn't that also a form of teaching? Was it because it was for a shorter segment and you had constant revolving customers coming through? Was it a different subject? You know, was it the outdoors? Yeah, I perhaps. I'm doing I I mean I understand what you're saying on that, but I'm just because you seem to have a natural ability to teach.
SPEAKER_00And so I that's what I'm just trying to figure out was and honestly, maybe it has a little bit to do with just hard work. Like, I think honing that natural ability to to make it do what you want it to do would be would help grant you that confidence, or particularly somebody like me who struggles with that. I think I think ultimately I would have figured teaching out had I chosen to stay, let's say, in Buna Vista. I think that would have only gotten better and better. And I think for a while there I definitely would have, and not only better as a teacher, but just better at recognizing who I was in that profession and being confident in it and not getting so bogged down with well, what else could I be doing? And this is actually like a recurring theme in my life, like, oh, what else is out there? Like, what what else could I be doing? Oh, I'm right there with you, you know, and I you know, because I mean we've already talked about how many careers, you know, at this point, like in and all the sports in in high school and junior high school that I tried. And so, like, this is definitely a recurring theme. I won't say it's like a character flaw, but it's definitely not necessarily conducive to building on one thing and doing it well. You know, it's like my friends always used to tell me, it's like, do one thing, do it best, outsource the rest. You know, like if you get really good at one thing, you've got it, you know, you've got it really made.
SPEAKER_05Well, but if you're if you're also pretty good at a bunch of things, you can have it made as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Don't don't both of those work?
SPEAKER_00They do, and I've proven that it does work because I'm not good at any one thing. Um it's like photography. I think I think I would have really enjoyed a life in photography, a career in photography. Uh-huh. But again, it's like at a certain point I just got to I just decided I didn't want to do the rat race. But like photojournalists in particular were it was very competitive. And I I don't know why I shied away so much from competition like that, but I just didn't I didn't want to put myself up against I I didn't want it to be about me, I just wanted to go out and take good pictures. And in a certain aspect of that job you had to sell yourself as well as as take great pictures. So I don't know.
SPEAKER_05Is there is there is there any desire to to get back into that? And the reason I'm asking is taking pictures of the local basketball game or track meet for the CBN or just for Facebook, because there's there's a lot of people in town that are some pretty good photographers that they don't sell it, they just put it on Facebook, they just share it with friends, give it to the families.
SPEAKER_00Is there any itch there that there is from time to time, and but honestly, we're just in a point in life where the time is actually a factor. Other things are more important, other things are more important, and it time is truly a factor, and um, and I I just I appreciate good photography and I appreciate uh I've had some great conversations with like Rasha just in her because that's kind of her background in photography. And so we both, you know, we had a um you know because she did film also first before everything went digital. And I think that's one of the reasons I got out is because I could see it going digital. Like it was everything was and then also the need for photographers waned quickly. Like they newspapers weren't keeping a staff of four or five photographers like they were where I was, they suddenly only needed two, and reporters needed to learn how to be photographer in their digital environment. So they you had to learn how to do all of it, and it just got hard it just got harder to be a professional journalist and be a photographer. And not to say that there aren't some who made it through all of that, but there were fewer, much, much fewer than there were after that.
SPEAKER_05And that's again that's another decision I'm I don't regret, but um but there was that was if that was something you're looking to make a career of with the way everything was changing that quickly, I think anybody that found something else at that point of time was ahead of the curve.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right. And a lot of people shifted out of that and into professional like portrait photography or wedding photography, which is what I did really all those years that I taught, I was also a photographer and did prof you know, did weddings in the summers, did a lot of weddings, did a lot of um other gigs, but mostly weddings and and um portrait photography. But uh again, I j I like the the medium of it, but um when I left Colorado and we came here, that's pretty much when I stopped doing professional photography, mostly just because I knew I'd have to give everything in terms of time and energy to the business, which has been true. Like I and it's paid off. Like I don't think I would have seen that kind of success if I was I think one of the reasons like one of the things I did is I tried to maintain a photography career and a real estate career kind of at the same time because I knew I could keep making money with photography while I was a fledgling real estate agent, which was true, but never was it good, like good money, like that doing two things kind of half-assed just made it and that can be a hard trap that I've seen people fall.
SPEAKER_05I've fallen into that before. It's like you're hesitant to really jump into this, you're safe over in this. One foot here and one foot. One foot here, let's just try and see how we can manage going forward. But sometimes you just gotta like take that jump, and it's scary as hell.
SPEAKER_00And and scary as hell is how I would describe our move here.
The Tatchanchini Trip With His Dad
SPEAKER_00Like honestly.
SPEAKER_05Well, before we get so before we get to your move here, yeah, you came here before because you were you've been posted on Facebook, and we talked about this is the 30th anniversary of your first trip to Haynes. Right. You came up on a raft trip and did the Tac and Chini, right?
SPEAKER_00Weird how life is like a big circle. We did. We did uh as a raft guide, we get you know, we got you look for cool trips to do in the off season. So we'd done the Grand Canyon once, um and uh we'd done some other river, like short river trips, um, like Westwater Canyon, things like that. But then we a couple years after the Grand Trip, we did somebody got a permit in our little friend group there. We got a permit to do the the the tot. And it was so you know, it was like exciting. And I just how many people and who all came up? So it was a lot of the guys that I guided with uh actually what it turned out to be is a father-son trip.
SPEAKER_05Because that's what I was gonna say. Didn't you bring your dad with you?
SPEAKER_00Right. So um I was done with school, I was kind of in that transition period where I wasn't I was really working as a photographer um um at that time, but looking for other like what was next. So the timing was perfect. I had a couple weeks to kill, and so a bunch of guys were actually in a similar position, either taking a school year off, like between regular school and grad school or something. And so we turned it into a father-son trip. So about six or seven of us invited our dads, uh, and I invited mine, and I thought that he was the last person, like I was like, okay, I'm going on the trip, like definitely going, but is my dad gonna gonna be able to make it? I'll ask him. I'm not sure he'll be able to do it or really want because he's he wasn't the adventure seeker that you know, he was a pretty even though he flew, he had a great career in the Air Force as a pilot, you know, the last 20 years he kind of just settled down and was happy not to be, he's not a big risk taker. He wasn't, you know, he liked car camping when with his boys when they were young, but this was a big deal, like ten days out in the wilderness on a river trip. So I posed the idea to him and he said yes.
SPEAKER_05Just right off the bat?
SPEAKER_00No, well I said, hey dad, call me. I'm like, here's what's going on. We got a per you know, we we got a permit to go uh raft the Tatanchini in Alaska and I I'd love it if you could make it. You know, I kinda gave him some of the details. He's I go, Why don't you think about it and then get back to me? So thought about it the next day. He goes, Well yeah, yeah, I think I think it's something I can do. You know, he'd be he was retired by this point.
SPEAKER_02Uhhuh.
SPEAKER_00Um at least semi-retired. I think he was still doing like tax work for people, but um and so I I was actually surprised. Like I was like, wow, my dad said yes. Like, and I was really excited. Um, because it's kind of a role reversal moment, you know, like I was gonna be able to take him under my wing and show him kind of a glimpse of what I've been up to for the last you know, he'd been down Browns Canyon with me, you know, mom and dad had come down a couple times. Um so they they knew what I was up to, they'd heard the stories, but now he really got to live like live the adventure.
SPEAKER_05Get to see it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, in 1996 we all showed up in Haynes, Alaska, and some of my closest friends and their um uh you know not everyone was able to bring their dad, but most everyone had uh somebody close to it, like their dad with them. Um and it just it was it was an absolutely life-changing trip. Like it was a phenomenal for my dad in particular. He was blown away, like he was just so blown away. Um so yeah, it was definitely a special, special moment. Great memory. It was in September, and you know Southeast and September can suck, but we got like some of the best weather. We got on and it rained a little bit the first day we put on. Yeah, and I remember so we it we guided ourselves, but I think it must have been Chill Cat Guides who we got our equipment from. Uh, because I remember Nelbert. Yeah, I have pictures of him in my in my photo album. Film, of course, film, right? So I have pictures of he was the guy that put us all together and got all our gear together and helped us get outfitted and dropped us off and sent us on our way. So um, and when I came here, I guess not quite 30 years, almost 20 years later, he was still around. It was so cool. I was like, hey, I know you. Um anyway, that was so that was a cool connection uh to make. But we put on that trip, and it was after that first day of a little bit of rain, we got like eight days of sunshine. Wow. It was so beautiful, it was so great. Saw wildlife. It was just a great experience. Got to hike on Walker Glacier, which I think is hard to do now, you can't do it so easily. Um so it was just a phenomenal. It was a it was a cool it was a cool trip and a great memory.
SPEAKER_05And you got to share with your dad.
SPEAKER_00Great memory with dad. And he talked about it, you know, to the day he died. Like it was it was definitely a special moment for him and for both of us. So so that was cool.
SPEAKER_05So, you know, we So then fast forward to now 2017.
SPEAKER_00Well, that, but just real quick, like where I get to take my daughter down. Are you doing a trip this year? This year. Really? Some none of the same guys that were on that trip, but same kind of friend group in general. One of them got a permit this year and called me up and said, Hey, we're gonna be in your neck of the woods. Do you want to go? And I was like, uh, let me think about that for a second. Yes, definitely, that would be great. And it so it turns out that Lily can go. So now I get to take my daughter, you know, some of these guys are taking their daughters with them. So it'll be when's that happening? In July. July. So so that's that's a special moment. So 30 years later, get to take one of my kids down, kind of repeat the experience a little bit. So but yeah, back to back
The Leap: Buying The Rusty Compass
SPEAKER_00to being in Haynes, like that was such a cool, like I had fond memories of Haynes. Like it was just an idyllic. So how did the idea come up of moving here? Moving to Haynes. So I just so that moment of being here in Haynes just gave me fond just good nostalgia. Like um, but I never thought I'd move here. Like, I it was never on my radar to move to Alaska. I was like, it wasn't like, oh, I can't wait. Maybe someday I'll move there. Someday I'll move there. It really wasn't the thing. But uh turns out though, after I got married and was hanging out with my my wife and and her family, that uh her her sister and her husband were looking to get out of Colorado. And one of the places they chose to look at, and he was a chiropractor, so he wanted to look for a good place to uh to open a chiropractor business that was friendly towards he loved to hunt and fish and be an outdoorsman, so he wanted to pick someplace that was great for that and also good for uh for his business. So he looked all over in Alaska and didn't didn't find anything. That was one year, and then the next year I think somebody had mentioned, well, had you been down to Southeast, because he went around to Kenai and you know South Central. But he ended up and then somebody mentioned Southeast, so he came so the next year he came and checked out Southeast, and I think I th you'd have to ask him, but I think Haynes was the first stop, and the rest is history. Like he just he he found a good opportunity, bought a place on a handshake, basically, and they moved here like four months later. So that was 2012, and I was like, Haynes, I've been to Haines.
SPEAKER_01You're not supposed to move to Haynes. What that's crazy.
SPEAKER_00You're going to Haynes, that's a great place. You know, I was just like, that's crazy that you're moving there. It's like the one place I've been in Alaska that's Haynes. So uh so that was cool, but I didn't, like I said, I didn't have any other affection for Haynes other than a cool memory. But since he moved here, we came to visit a couple of times. Since I was a school teacher at that time, teaching in Bunavista, so we had the summers to do. If I wasn't working, we could get away. So we got away for a couple weeks, one summer in 2014, and then again in 20 um 2016. We came for like two months. And I actually drove bus for Chill Cat Mountain Guides or Chill Cat Guides um just a couple times a week, just to kill time while we were here. But again, it was and it was beautiful that summer. I don't know, 2016, it was beautiful. We're like, oh shit, really nice here. I was like, it's nice, but we're I mean, we're not ready to move here. I mean, just because your sister's here, I mean it's cool and all, it'd be nice to be around them, but we're not we're not moving to that. We can't move here. It's crazy. Like, what will we do? Like, I don't want to teach, so well, the last day we were in Ha in Haynes that summer, you know, I think Chris had gotten a call to be like, hey, because he'd bought a couple properties in town, and people knew that you know, if you wanted to sell something, you know, maybe ask Mr. Thorguson, Dr. Thorguson. Anyway, he they somebody got a hold of him and said, Hey, you know, the Rusty Compass building is for sale. You want to talk to the owner? He said, Yeah. He was Lee, you want to look at the Rusty Compass? I was like, sure, you know, just like just to appease him a little bit. Yeah, so we took a walk through it with Lanise and um showed us the building, and it was it was it was great. It's a nice, looked like a nice opportunity, you know. I was like, but it was our last day in Haynes, like we're not gonna do anything about we're I literally so we got in the car and we drove. I drove home because we had driven up, and the the kids flew up with mom and I I drove, so they drove they flew back and I drove back. Um the kids are pretty young still at this point. And uh I just remember you know thinking, yeah, it's probably a little unrealistic. Um but got back into teaching in Colorado. This is 2016, and long about October, I was look I was like, man, I really don't want to be teaching anymore. I just that same feeling came up again, you know, like just not living, not really just dialed in. I really just I'm fighting it, and I'm fighting this feeling. I just gotta we called Lanise and we made an offer and negotiated a little bit, got it, got a contract in place, and and uh we closed on it basically January 1st or December 31st or something. But I kid you not, like I remember, you know, signing all the papers, and at this point you did everything. Like I was in Colorado, they sent the package to me, Darcy and I signed all the papers, and we sent it back, and I think it was on December 31st or something like that. I don't know. I just I remember dropping it in the FedEx box. And then that night I'm on FedEx.com. Like, how do you turn a package around? Like I literally was wondering, is this recall? How do I exactly? I was like, I was it was it was daunting, like because we had a pretty good thing going. It's a huge change. It was a big change, and it was gonna take everything we had to make it work. Yeah, you know, including you know, including some retirement savings and stuff that you want to put away for a rainy day, you know, or for a future thing. And so we really it was a risk. We took a risk. We Darcy was all in. And again, like as always, she's she's in, you know, and we and we leaned on our faith in that time. We prayed about this and we we talked to people and sought wise counsel and and and at the end of the day, we just we prayed that no doors if the door should be shut, then shut the door. You know, make that obvious, please, God.
SPEAKER_05And when you couldn't find the recall button, was that maybe the thing because I guess well, that was me doing my own thing.
SPEAKER_00Like, I think at that point we had he had made everything happen so that we could make it happen.
SPEAKER_05How do you feel like he sh how did what were the signs that you saw that were like this is the thing to do? Do you remember what that was, or was it just a feeling?
SPEAKER_00And I wouldn't say it was just a feeling, but I would think just through the the process, we confirmed that this was a good step for us and for our family. We were not settled where we were at. We knew we were gonna be around others, because also my other brother-in-law, and so Darcy's other sister, was making a similar move at the same time. They were also jumping into a business that he knew nothing about, so it kind of felt like this perfect storm.
SPEAKER_05Like we were all the whole family thing.
SPEAKER_00Let's just jump in and maybe we're all sort of cussing under our breath at the the initial brother-in-law that moved up here because he got us into the street. That would actually probably come years later. But at at in all fairness, like it was just a perfect storm of it just all came together really well. So but I did it at this point now. I'm just going through the motions. I'm okay. Well, we're in it. Like I didn't hit the recall button, I gotta keep taking steps forward. So like So you still have to finish out the school year. Or don't you? So I didn't. So, but I couldn't quit yet until we had funding.
SPEAKER_05Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00Right? So I had to remain as a teacher, and I could not put in a two week's notice or a month's notice or anything until all the other, you know, loans and and you know, second mortgages and things like that that were coming together um to make this happen. So once all of those things fell into place, then I I did quit. And you don't quit a teaching job in the middle of a school year. And you don't quit a really cool school district in a desirable place that anybody would kill for, like, job. You just don't do that in the middle of a school year. But I did,
Barista School And Better Coffee Basics
SPEAKER_00I quit. But Chris? Or Lee did? But Lee did. So I I quit in February. I think I I think that's when it all came together, somewhere in mid-February, and then basically gave him a month's notice. And then during that time, I mean, we were gonna own a coffee shop. So I go to barista school, like, to learn how to do coffee well. Because I didn't want to just do it kinda okay. I didn't want to just like figure it out. I wanted to step in with some knowledge. And my good friend owned a coffee shop in Buny. I worked for her after I was done teaching. I had a couple weeks still. I just said, I want to work for free. I just need to learn.
SPEAKER_05Just teach me what I need to know.
SPEAKER_00Teach me what I need to know. And that those things were super important. Like those were all very key in making this place successful because we like I said, we wanted to do it well, and I did. And so I'm a level one certified barista, so I don't I don't know how many people how come you don't have that?
SPEAKER_05I don't see that certificate on the city. You can probably get that on the wall for sure if everybody did it.
SPEAKER_00It was pretty funny too. Going to the water.
SPEAKER_05There's actually there's actually classes for 100%. I was not aware of that. I figured just each of like Starbucks should have their training schools all the time.
SPEAKER_00There are no there this specialty coffee is big business, and there are different levels of certification you can obtain. There are competitions that you can do with it. Is there anything higher than level one?
SPEAKER_05Oh, absolutely, yeah. So how can you haven't continued with this, Lee? How come we only have a level one barista in Haynes and not anything higher? Well, I don't know. Maybe I should look into that. Maybe that would be my. I think the customer typically didn't demand more from their barista.
SPEAKER_00It probably has a lot to do with my customer base that I don't need to get to the level one. Um no, kidding. But but it was funny going to this class. So I was in, I went, I signed up for one, Ozo Coffee, I think was the name of the place. And I am in this class with and most people who took this class were already like working as a barista in a coffee shop, right? Not me. I I came and I was full bearded and it was 40s.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Early 40s. Everybody else is probably in the middle of the year. Early 40s, they're 1920, they smell like patchouli, they got, you know, earrings and other hardware. And I'm just I come into this place looking like a redneck from Celida, Colorado. And it it was funny. It was good. But it was great. They they took me in and showed me the ropes and and uh and I was a I like to say I was a pretty quick study on it, learned it pretty well, pretty fast, and brought that knowledge with me. But but that was a pretty funny moment there and at the at the coffee at their coffee house there in Boulder.
SPEAKER_05Um what is what is one not to give all the secrets away of being a level one barista, but what is like the one key thing that to making a good cup of coffee?
SPEAKER_00Well, it depends. I mean, so there's so much that's important about your I don't drink coffee, so I have no idea about this. So many important so many things can go wrong. So you gotta have the right beam to start with, you gotta have the right level grind, then you have to have your machine set right, so it's got you know nine atmospheres of pressure is what that water goes through the uh espresso machine at. So nine bar, you gotta make sure that you gotta pull it for a certain amount of time. So usually you want to shoot for about 20 seconds, but there's some nuances depending on the the bean you use. Um so now if you were gonna introduce milk, then there's milk you have to do that well too. You gotta you know, you gotta have the right, you gotta steam it correctly so you get the right microfoam.
SPEAKER_05So did you learn to make all the little cool designs on the coffee that they do with the milk too?
SPEAKER_00I that's that's maybe level two. That's the level two? Yeah, I can do okay with a couple of things. Luckily, we've now I hire to my weakness. Yeah. And so we've got uh arboristas are really good at doing stuff like that. So I am um, yeah, you probably don't want me making latte art for you. Okay, yeah. I'll what I call whatever I whatever I present, I just call it a harbor seal. It's like, oh look, look, there's a blob, it's a harbor seal.
SPEAKER_04It's a harbor seal, obviously.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I need to do that. Yeah, yeah. But what's the microfoam is still good, so the coffee's still great. But um as far as the if you're coming for artwork, get it from Jacob.
SPEAKER_05Were you uh coffee officiating auto before buying this?
SPEAKER_00Was that something you really appreciated? So going back to our like st grading papers and I I didn't drink coffee when I was young, like, or even in college, but then after college and I started then I would but I I liked coffee. I liked good coffee, I but I didn't, you know, I didn't like folgers. I couldn't ever deal with that, but I did like so I became kind of a coffee snob. So I didn't know all of this stuff, but I was like, I do know a good cup of coffee when I have one. So uh we uh we really appreciated that. So and Darcy now funny thing about Darcy though, she had never she didn't like coffee. She didn't like it at all. So we but when we opened up the shop and I gave her the first I pulled her the first shot from that espresso machine and her eyes brightened up. She's really it's it can be like this? Like she really loved the flavor of just a shot of espresso.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_00Or just coffee done well. So that really won her over, and now I've ruined her. She loves coffee. She loves coffee. So I have to bring her, yeah, I bring her a cup of coffee every morning.
SPEAKER_05See your grade when you guys first started spending time together, you're grading papers at a coffee shop and she doesn't drink coffee?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, after school, this coffee shop served wine, so we might have a glass of wine or a cup of tea.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_00She would probably have tea or maybe a glass of wine.
SPEAKER_05I was gonna say, that's kind of rude to invite somebody that doesn't drink coffee to a coffee shop to hang out.
SPEAKER_00But she knew I like coffee, so she she was like, Yeah, I'll take them to coffee. Okay. So in any event, yeah, that was but we did. We spent a lot of time enjoying a coffee shop. Yeah. And to this day.
SPEAKER_05And so did that give you ideas on the feel that you wanted to have here?
SPEAKER_00I'd say so. Yeah. For sure. Just like introducing the certain things that we had on our menu when we first opened. Uh even to the point of like my good friend who owned her coffee and still does, they're in Buna Vista. Brown Dog Coffee, by the way. So if you're ever in Buny, go to go to Brown Dog. Where are they located? Right on the highway. Go into town. All right. Yeah. It's the original coffee shop in like now they're everywhere, right? But that was the original espresso shop in Buna Vista. Um, it was a different name when she first bought it, but she changed the name to Brown Dog. Anyway, um, but like the chorizo burrito that we serve is I I got I had to modify the recipe because of how we can't get everything up here, but that that she was the inspiration. That chorizo burrito is the inspiration for what we have in our shop.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And when I introduced like even having sandwiches in a coffee shop, I that was also inspired by the the coffee shop that we would go to. And then it kind of took a life of its own, but the initial offerings that we had, a lot of that was the the chai we use, the the chocolate we use, all of that was inspired from from what I knew back there. So and I knew it was good.
SPEAKER_05So you get up here in March,
Ferry Move And A Brutal First Summer
SPEAKER_05end of March, beginning April?
SPEAKER_00I did. The kids came before me. They all Darcy and the kids flew up and um took the ferry up, and on they were on the ferry on March 17th, 2017. So St. Patrick's Day. I think it was St. Patty's Day. If it wasn't, it was maybe the day before, but I'm pretty sure it was March 17th, and the C's were crazy. And I think Darcy was like, What the heck are we doing here? Like they're barfing, they're sick, they're not feeling well on the ferry. Of course, I'm not with them, so she's dealing with three kids and coming up on the ferry.
SPEAKER_01Get me into.
SPEAKER_00And I'm gonna drive a truck, our vehicle and trailer, um, and put it on the ferry like a a week later. So I had to finish packing the house and it was a mad dash. It was it was crazy. Um, and again, just leaving behind our like it we left a lot. Like we left good friends, good relationships, strong ones. And now even to but it's nice because when we go back, we s we can reconnect with these people. But we um yeah, that was a lot. So I followed about two weeks later by the time I got on the ferry and and brought it up all the way from Bellingham. Because they flew, they flew into Juno and took the ferry up. Um And then we spent the first two months, I guess, well not even quite, but about a month and a half just figuring everything out in that coffee shop and and the way it was, you know, it was left in good shape, don't get me wrong, but we we didn't know anything from anything. Like we were still trying to figure out how the systems work and all the how that espresso machine worked and how that brewer worked and had to order, we had to rearrange some things, but it's been a work in progress ever since.
SPEAKER_05So um So there times at the beginning where you're like six months in that you and Darcy are looking at yourselves like the heck did we do?
SPEAKER_00So we bought the place. We had there's there's apartments above the Rusty Compass. Uh-huh. Well, they were just office space then. And so we had even before we moved up here, we had those three spaces converted into residential. And that's back when Pacific Pile was getting ready to do the harbor project.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so we had a lead on some renters, and we're like, we get that's one source of income, right? We want to get those so we worked hard, and the guys worked hard to get that project done. And um so we got there were people living in that building before I even got here, and uh, I remember like tapping on my brother-in-law to my Kent, and he had to drive the White Horse to get appliances for me. Like oh, like I could just see like why isn't Lee here doing this, right? But uh they took care of me and and we got that thing going. But we we lived in the um with our in-laws for like a month, and then we moved into the third apartment, all five of us in a one-bedroom apartment, and it was the kids had the bedroom, we built a loft over the dining room table that we put a mattress on, and so you get there and we had about this much space between us and the ceiling. Luckily, there were high ceilings, but we sat there and it was I can just rem oh the the killer was this like we were we'd go to bed at night after working all day in the coffee shop trying to figure things out or whatever, and then we'd hear the bar. We're next to the fog cutter bar, and something I didn't consider when I converted all these to residential. Uh-huh. She's like, just like this, and then it would get louder at like 3 a.m. or 4 a.m.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, what is going on here? This is a mistake. I don't know what I'm gonna do. Marty knows what you're going through. Right? And I'm just like, what have I done?
SPEAKER_00And I'm like, now I'm looking online, like how to mitigate sound, like what can I do to dampen the sound? I I'll never get these rented or they'll never stay rented. It was never a problem. It's never been a problem, thankfully. Like, yeah, it's a bit of an issue for that you tell people up front what to expect, and that's important, right? Laying expectations. So we've had that place, but we lived there for that summer, that whole summer all the way to October, and just wondering what in the heck are we doing? What in the hell are we doing? Like this was bad. Like, what we had it so good back in Vuna Vista. Why didn't we just stay there and just come visit your family every now and then? We could have come every summer. We had teaching jobs. Like, what were we thinking? And it was it was hard. That first summer was hard. I should have recalled that note. I should have recalled that package from FedEx. But it I'm glad it were like I'm glad none of that happened, right? Like, I'm glad it no regrets.
COVID Teaching In Haynes And Divided Focus
SPEAKER_05Now, was it that first fall that you got called back into teaching in Haynes?
SPEAKER_00No, not at all.
SPEAKER_05Well, it was a couple years later, right? It was the COVID year. COVID year that you got called back into teaching.
SPEAKER_00Right. So and actually what's funny about all of this is like even before the COVID thing happened, I was already I was like, well, this is going well, but you know, maybe I could also teach here. Like I could see that teachers were coming and going. It wasn't that bad, actually, 2017, 18, 19. There wasn't a need. Lily Moron still had the social studies job, and Miss Andreessen, of course, uh had her job. So they weren't looking for social studies teachers, but uh, I do remember like inquiring about subbing and none of that came to fruition, but I still had there's still something in me, I guess, that wanted to be in that environment. It's like a love-hate relationship. I could keep going back, you know. Um, and I think Tiana knew that because Tiana's the one that came to me in 2020. So now the COVID thing is just starting to happen, like March. I mean, it it we heard about it in even December, I think, but that was overseas at that point. And then January, February, it was just starting to get a little weird with everything. And so then Tiana came and said, hey, we've got a social studies job open. I was like, oh, thanks.
SPEAKER_05And and and what do you want me to do about that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was like, that's that's cool. I mean, I was like, yeah, I know, I've been thinking about it, but I don't think we're actually things are going really well here. And I think a week later they shut us down. Everything's shut down. Everything you know, all the restaurants, all the public spaces, they got shut down. So um and then I was like left going, huh, now what do I do? And um, but I think I can't remember I'm a little fuzzy on the details, but it was something to the effect of, hey, but um I think Tiana had told me they had hired us a person, and I was like, oh, that's great. You guys are set. Um she goes, well, you missed your opportunity. I go, well, listen, if it opens up again, just let me know. I'll probably I'll throw in. Well, like a few days later, well, it opened up again. They they they pulled their their application, they you know, we hired them, but they they have opted out. And I was like, oh great. So I did. I was like, well, we shut down, so I guess I'll throw in my I'll throw my hat in the ring because I don't know how long this is gonna go on for. So I I get my application together and I throw in um for the teaching job. And I go through the interview process, and um I think it was over Zoom, because at that point everything was over Zoom. And um, and then they came back to me and they're like, Well, you had you interviewed really well, but the person we initially hired has come back and said that they want the job. So I said, Well, you know where to find me. Like, if something happens again, like just let me know and I'll um, you know, you know where to find me. I don't mind being your second choice. You know, and then well, I I don't know how much time transpired, but it was a few weeks. And they said, they called me and they said, well, they've now they've reneged again or they something happened and they couldn't, they weren't gonna come. And they're like, we would like to offer you the job. So that's how I ended up teaching in Hanes, is a little bit out of need, but a little bit also out of the school had a need. And and and it was a it was a great I thought, okay, I'll do it for a year, let you guys get your feet under you and and figure out what this COVID thing looks like and get put your feelers out for a new teacher again. Um but also I'll teach a year, is kind of what I was thinking, which turned into two, which turned into three. So I taught three years in Haynes. But after honestly, that third year I should should not have taught. Like the business had really begun to you you needed your time my time I needed to be at the shop, and again, you're doing both two things at 70%. It's it's better to do one thing and do it well. So I so I put in my, you know, I I I quit after three years and and necessarily so. Like I just needed to put all my time and effort into the keeping the Rusty going. So but it was great. Again, great relationships made. Found a lot of future employees.
SPEAKER_05I got found a few you owe me some time from not paying attention in class, so you're gonna get the rusty this summer.
SPEAKER_00Well, thankfully, I never really got any like no, I mean I would uh I hired a lot of different people and it was cool, and I did hire some students that were that I had had directly, and the it was a great place uh to forge some relationships and just to get to know because otherwise I didn't really know anyone super well in the community. Um because we spent a lot of time with family, and so there's a lot of our time is in the business or with family, and then some relationships outside of that, but not a ton. So that that was instrumental in just forging some new relationships and new just new acquaintances, and so I really did appreciate my time, and I I think the teachers do a a good job here, and it's a good staff to be a part of. Uh it's a it's a struggling craft, and it's and this is a hard place to keep teachers right now. I can see that, but I'm glad I was able to help out for a few years. But again, I never felt like okay, this is what I'm doing for the next 30 years or the next 15 years.
SPEAKER_05Do you feel that about being running the Rusty for the next 15, 20 years? I I don't know what the future holds for that. That probably is that something that any of the kids have expressed an interest in maybe running someday?
SPEAKER_00Uh maybe my youngest, honestly, Grady is probably if anyone has expressed any interest, it's the youngest. The oldest, Lily became a great barista and actually great utility player. She could do anything in that shop, but she's happy. I'm seeing a lot of her me in her uh these days with her exploring different things, and she's working at camp all summer and doesn't really know what's next in her life. I'm like, oh no. Like she'll figure it out. She'll figure it out. They all that worked for you, right? It did, and I think that's important to so that hey, you can you this is why I actually don't worry about my kids. Like I don't worry about Lily or any of the kids, because I know that they'll it will sort out, you know. You surround yourself with good people, you forge good relationships, and you stay true to your word and just you know, be a good person of integrity, then it's you don't it'll it'll come together. God will craft something for you using your skills and your abilities and and your people. So I am confident that that's gonna happen with with all of them, so I don't worry too much. But if there's anything I could if if I had to change anything about myself looking back, that's still one thing I'm like, ah, I don't know. I'm always wishy-washy on what I wanted to do. I was it's like I don't necessarily want them to struggle with that. Even though I can even though I wouldn't change anything in the way it sort of like turned out, I still it's still one of the things that was hard for me to you know to walk through uh all my life. So
Building A Coffee Shop Community Hub
SPEAKER_00I'm like Do you do you still feel that now? Do you feel a do you feel more settled?
SPEAKER_05I feel a little more settled. When you talk about the coffee, you sound more settled.
SPEAKER_00That's been a good this has been a good career choice for me because it hits a lot of the things that I need. And then in terms of doing something different every day, I might not do all I think I do all of them collectively okay, like pretty good. I don't necessarily do any one of them like as an expert would, like I can't make latte art, but I know people who can, and I can give people the platform to do that, and I can still come alongside young people and help them like with a first job, perhaps, or um there's still great, there's really cool things about owning that business in particular that I love. I love getting to know it's like a cheers episode if you've ever been in there on a morning. Like I don't go in in the mornings, but yeah, it's cool to see how community has responded now after the years, you know. It didn't happen overnight, of course, but now of being there, it's been it's been really cool just to forge relationships with the regular people of Haynes, you know, the the the regulars. Um and it's really cool to forge uh new friendships or even like to get to know a traveler that's coming through and just loves the space, that it's warm and inviting, and a place to sit and have a cup of coffee. Like I like all of that, and I can I can have a conversation with somebody I've never met before for half an hour without even thinking about it. Or I can sit with you know Fred Gray and we can talk about the weather for 30 minutes like we do every morning. Like either one of those things are uh hit like they they hit the spot for my, I don't know, I guess my extrovert side, like the the part of me that needs to connect with people. I can I like doing that in in different ways. And yeah, there's a lot of suck of like I've always told my kids, there's the suck of the job. Like any job has the suck of the job, but you just gotta grind through those and and get it done. Fridge breaks down, you gotta figure it out, you gotta problem solve. So that's another thing that that that job, that business that the the shop does for me is it helps me be me be a problem solver. It helps me think ahead, okay, well what if this happens? Then I've got to do this. So I get to do a lot, I get to wear a lot of different hats doing this. And so, yeah, you know, I get to be my own marketing director, you know, I get to use the photography skills that a little bit, you know, here and there. Um I get to use um it's uh I I love just that people come in and sit and read. Uh you know, and it's just a s safe, quiet place for them to do that. Like it's or a comfortable, quiet place. Yeah, it's safe too. But um I just I really enjoy it's it's been a good a good fit for me. So I and it's become much I don't know, a lot more than I thought it would, honestly. In what way? I just how busy we are and how much, you know. It's become uh I don't know, it's just like how many people I'm able to employ, like all of that. I never I thought I'd be pulling shots every day, you know, and I I couldn't do that. Like if that were my only if I had to do that and run the business, it'd be like teaching and running the business. I couldn't do both of those. But just the fact like so it has become a lot more than I thought it uh would be as far as um you know the amount of time it would take also become a bigger time investment than I ever thought it would be. But it's also paid off in so many different ways. So um it's been such a cool way for the family just to come and be a part of, you know. Um, like I said, with Lily being a part of that, now she's moved on. Uh she'll be back, but in some extent. It's been really cool to watch Darcy and what she's done with baking and and bringing other like young people in and showing them the ropes on on some of the baking that we do. Um we it's just been a really cool place, a canvas of sorts to allow people to do their thing. And I think that's that's where I get the most satisfaction out of running that that place. And it still has some headaches. Like, you know, people there's turnover in that in that place, just like there is any place. I mean, finding good employees is hard, especially in this in environment where you know people can find opportunity outside of Haynes that are really good, let alone staying here. Um so I I recognize that, and so I try to, you know, create an atmosphere or a desire or role place to work, you know, or or to to cut your teeth on things. And but with that turnover, you know, sometimes you gotta step up and and be in that position or um, you know, you're always teaching somebody uh that that's new at it. So uh that takes a lot of effort. But but overall, I think as a package, the the place has done really it's done our family good and it's done us it's done us really good.
SPEAKER_05So what do you uh what do you see for the future?
SPEAKER_00Uh I honestly we just keep on trying to improve what we do there. And you know, we've thought talked about expanding and or how what would that look like? I don't, you know, I don't want to get in over my my head, you know, like you don't want to I've seen that I think I've seen it happen even here, but like we're you do too much and then it's it all gets away from you. So I just kind of want to keep doing what we're doing and keep doing it well. There's still room for improvement. There's always room for improvement. So we're still trying to learn ways to improve and um to offer people a great experience and a great product, and uh we want to just keep that going. So I don't know. I mean, our kids are still young and in school, so I imagine like a lot of business owners do, you stick it out until your kids get to a certain point in life and and then see what's next. Um so like we're st but we have no immediate plans to go anywhere or do anything different. We're just gonna keep riding this and just keep it at operating at full potential as best we can. So that's that's kind of that's where we're at right now.
SPEAKER_05What did we miss? What did we miss in the story of Lee? Oh, jeez.
SPEAKER_00Um I mean one of the most special things
Family, Loss, And Why Haynes Sticks
SPEAKER_00about living here has been time with family. And I think I touched on it, but you know, we um we moved here, like I said, and so did well, you know, Chris's family moved here first, and then and then our family and Kent's family both moved here. So we had three families, all newcomers without any history in hand.
SPEAKER_05And it's the the three sisters that tied everybody together, right? Three sisters, yep.
SPEAKER_00We're all the brother-in-laws that have been introduced to the the mix and the you know the three sisters. And I think I think you know, one of the hard so the family experience, you know, we we had a loss. There used to be a brother also. So we have three sisters and a brother, but the brother passed away in 04 on on a motorcycle accident. So that was like the first that event also was a keystone event, like just brought the family together, and um there was a closeness that I was able to be a part of and was able to see um as a result of that. But there's also pain and and and all of that, as I know a lot of folks have experienced in one fashion or another. Um so we so that is sort of in the background, right? And then fast forward, you know, 20, well, I guess about at that time, 13, 14 years when Chris moved up here, and then we also moved up here. It was cool to just see some healing, honestly, for out of that tragedy. But then now we got um 17 cousins to run around, you know, my kids, their kids, Kent's kids, like everybody's kids get to run around with each other and just I didn't grow up with that. I grew up with my brother and um and w we have great um we have cousins, they just live all over the country. So we have great um affection for family, but we just never got to spend it with each other, with our cousins, like in long periods, you know, just maybe a few vacations here and there. So to see the opportunity that was one of the big reasons we moved here is to see the opportunity for families to do life together, to grow up near each other. And that's been really satisfying. That's been probably what's made moving to Haynes like doable, like tolerable. Not that this it's not a it's a great place, but if you don't have the history here, we don't have the history here, right? We don't have friends from long ago, and we don't have that kind those kind of roots here. But we do have each other. It's a beautiful place, don't get me wrong, but it's as you know, it's a it can be a sucky place as far as the weather goes and the all of those challenges. And if you don't, if you grow up in sunny Colorado, this is a really it can be a it can be a place to it takes some getting used to, all right. It's and it's taking some getting used to. But with the family, the family element has made it what's been sp that's why it's special. That's the big reason it's special, is that we we do we do family really well. And that's been awesome just to see my kids grow up with their cousins and with grandma and grandpa, they've also made the the trek here. And um, so they they get to spend a lot of time with family, and that's I'm so grateful and I'm thankful. I get to see that in all of those families there's no broken relationships, there's no divorce, and I get it, it happens, and it's tough, and it's really hard, and it's it's it's not a I don't think anybody wishes that, but I'm so grateful that my kids have the stability of relationship all around them to witness. And so that that that is one that has been 100% worth it. If we lost everything, it wouldn't matter because that that's been the best thing. So um thankfully we're not in a position to lose. It's quite the opposite. We've only gained. And so I think um, but that that part right there has been awesome. So that if there was anything missing from the story, I'd say that was that would be a key part of the story. Is that uh, and then just growing closer to that family, you know. I think individually, like the brother-in-laws in particular, we're probably not drawn to each other otherwise. Like, we're all so different from one another, yeah. That in other circles we're not we're not hanging out. But in this the three sisters, right, they pull us together. So um, you know, and the and it pulls it's what it's that the uniqueness of our family. I think that's what what's been awesome. And so that's um it's been I've learned so much from from everyone in the family and and had to and have benefited with some really awesome fun experiences because of it. Like I would, I'd never I probably would never have had the confidence to come and do what I did without a little bit of prodding from those that are close to me, you know. And so I've I've been able to benefit from that.
SPEAKER_05I think it's pretty cool because not a lot of people when they move somewhere, other families like uproot their lives and go to the same place. Yeah, like with Chris coming up here first, you you and Kent, you know, hey, okay, let's yeah, this opportunity came up, let's let's move up to the same place. It's that doesn't happen that often. No, and so to be able to do that and maintain that close family, that close-knit family like you're talking about, that's a pretty special opportunity to take advantage of.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and it and in Haynes, you there's people that I go months without seeing. But there's a lot of them that I see pretty much every single day. Sometimes it's just waving because they're they're going to work while I'm walking in or they're coming whichever way it is, or see them in the store, and and you build those connections. I know I know you you've seen this. Marty sees this at their place that just the connections on a daily basis that you build from just seeing those people over and over. Yeah. Pretty cool to be able to experience that. And I and I don't I never got to experience it from your part because my family, my parents had already built a friend circle. They'd been here for several years before I was born, and so you know, just being I just around people, I I never had to adjust to moving into a new place like that. Um at that age, you know, going to college was the most like that that I had. Um yeah, no, it is Haynes can be a very challenging place to live, but the benefits of the close relationships that you can have in Haynes, in my view, out outweigh the challenges, for sure.
SPEAKER_00And I I go back to my my childhood and I think about moving around a couple times as a really young kid, um, because my dad was in the Air Force, and I think moving an adventure like that never sc scared me. Like it never was I in fact I looked forward to the next new adventure or the next road trip. Any road trip I do, I try to take a different road. Like when I did all that stuff on the road with the fiber optic cable, I would always try to find a different path to get there just so I could experience more so I have a map. I have a map where I've marked in black marker all the blue highways, you know, just to see what I and it's somewhere tucked away, I gotta find it. But I like to be able to do that. I so I so moving here, like the act of moving here was actually exciting. It was fun to do a new thing. Um I was scared out of my wits, like, how am I gonna make a coffee business run? Because I'd never done coffee, but I knew that I had the spirit of adventure and the desire to you know to make that work, but um, but all in all, it was the family that surrounded me that I couldn't have done it without them. Like there's no way.
SPEAKER_05So your your dad passed when?
SPEAKER_00He passed in 2014. So is your mom still with us? She is, and so that was a hard one too. Man, that'll probably bring a tear to my eye, but that was hard because you know, dad and I were close. I love dad and I in junior high and high school, I don't I don't even know how I I was such an ass in high school. I was just So you're a typical teenager? I was a typical teenager. I was I just I just can't believe I had such a loud mouth and always I know how much I talked back to him and how much because he was the most mild-mannered, kind, like he was just a good dad. And I was just a jerk. I'm sure I wasn't as bad as I kind of make it out to be, but there are times I know that I was bad. And it wasn't that I was doing bad things, it was just more about attitude, right? And and yet then in college that changed. And he and I became I began to appreciate him for who he was and for raising me, you know, just literally raising me. So I think that that was that was cool, and that's when our relationship began began to get more rich. And you know, like the the Tatchancini trip. That's that was the icing on the cake, you know, cherry on top. And um, but even so, all through the nine like all through the nineties and into the 2000s, he was always there for me. He was always supportive and encouraging. No, he wasn't the greatest leader, like in the sense of like you should do this or you you you shouldn't do this, but he was always there to support and encourage. And so that was he let you forge your own path. He did 100 for sure. Um and so, you know, and then also I we started our family, and it was really I never met either one of my grandpa. They were they both had died before I was born. Um and so it was so awesome that we were Grady was born in 2012, he was the third of the three. So at least dad got to hold us.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which I didn't get to, you know. It was cool to see that. So um, yeah, we miss dad. And mom, everybody loves mom, and they should. I'm not saying that. Mom was um, she's strong, she's super strong, and she is, she tells you like it is. She was a nurse, she's Greek, so I'm half Greek, and she's got that Greek spirit. If you've ever seen my big fat Greek wedding, that's that's my mom side of the family. And so mom is is strong, and she's 80, 84, and she's still she's doing great. She's living on her own. She can't see as well as she used to, and she hasn't been driving for about 15 years. But um she's doesn't let that stop her. So she's got her schedule and she exercises a lot, and she's got her friend groups, and she she gets out there all the time. It's just been so awesome. But that was hard telling mom that we're gonna go to Alaska. And sh she took it so well, she was like um very supportive. She wasn't gonna get in the way. Like she she knew I had to go. She knew it was she knew it was the right thing, I think, for me at that time in our life. Um, I think it was hard for her because it, you know, because dad had recently passed at that time. This was a few years ago. This was just three years, three years after he'd passed. And she's getting used to living on her own and stuff. And so but you still feel it, like I still felt the heaviness of because Steve and I at that point could my brother is Steve, he and I could kind of tag team and you know, be there at a moment's notice or help, you know. If I couldn't be there, Steve could go, or it we just tag teamed, and and we still do in some respects. I just have to do it from Alaska. But um, but he's he's definitely carried the lion's share of of being in person with mom.
SPEAKER_05Has mom made it up to Haynes?
SPEAKER_00She has. She made it up to Haynes. It's been a few years, it the year after we got here, 2018. Yeah. And she may come again, but thankfully we're in a position where we're able to get down there at least once a year with the whole family.
SPEAKER_05I just wondered what what did what did she think of when she came up here?
SPEAKER_00Oh, she thought it was beautiful. She she loved visiting for sure. She's like, well, she grew up in Marquette, Michigan, so she gets like nasty winters and snow and all that. But uh, you know, she she would never she would never like it would be too much to be.
SPEAKER_05No, but I'm just I'm just thinking more of her looking what she said, what her son was doing and everything, and she's like she thought he made the right choice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think for sure she she still supports that, and she's really I think now that we're doing you know as well as we are as far as you know crafting the business we have, she's super proud of that. And she had a part in that, like she helped us get up here, you know. Um uh and so it she she definitely was supportive. There was never ever an element of, oh, are you sure you want to go? And if dad were around, he would have been the same way, he would have 100% supported it. In fact, we had taken a Disney cruise that year that we came and stayed a couple months here. Mom wanted to do a Disney cruise. Her and dad were gonna go on a cruise, do the Alaska cruise the year he the year he passed away. Um he couldn't do it. So, so then mom didn't do it. But mom was like, I'm gonna make good on that cruise, but I'm gonna take the whole family. So Steve's family and my family, and she all all did the Disney cruise in the summer of 2016. And we floated right by Haynes and uh we met uh our but our family was here, so we we worked it out to to kind of go meet with them. I think they came over to Skagway because that's where that's where it went. Um and so it was cool. So see she got a taste of it then, and then so but then we got off the cruise and then came straight here from Vancouver. Um I drove up and the kids flew up, and that was the year we just we stayed a couple months. So she got a taste of what it was like at that point, and um that's also so that's and then it's at the end of that summer that we got shown the that we took a uh that we looked at the property and then the next, you know, then it was just a few months later that we made the offer on the property. So she kind of got it, like she she was part of that process, she was part of it, but it in some ways it was because of that trip, you know, that because I don't know that we would have come up here for two months had we not already taken the baby step of getting on the cruise to come here. Like we might have come up for a visit, but I don't know that we would have been here for two months. I don't know that we would have taken a look at the Rusty Compass. So it's kind of interesting how that all plays out, you know, and and all because mom and dad were wanted to take an Alaska cruise that dad couldn't take himself, but ultimately he's the reason that we took that cruise.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so yeah, who knows if it would have been the year before that Lanise decided to sell it. Right. Yeah, you just those those where things intersect, you know, all the all that time you like you like you're saying, looking back, you can see kind of God's hand guiding guiding you into the place that you're supposed to be at the right time that you're supposed to be there.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And so that's why I say I have no there's no regrets, you know. I look back and I go, man, all the mountains just kind of smoothed out. You know, just looks it looks good from here. So it's not a lot of hard work. Maybe it's a fall summit, maybe we still got more climbing to do, but it looks good from here and and it's been a good, it's been a great journey so far. So um still lots of cool things ahead, and you know, can't wait to can't wait to do the tot this year with with Lily and that's gonna be a cool father-daughter experience. That's gonna be awesome. Yeah, still is Darcy ever wanting to do that? Yeah, she would. It's just hard for both of us to get away in the middle of the summer.
SPEAKER_05And so that I've had I've had opportunities to do the tot or the Alsac for the last 40 years. Yeah, guys all every summer. I've never been on it. Yeah, it's it's hard. It's when it's the busiest time here. Everybody guys coming in like Doug, you need to come down, you need to do the trip, you need to do the trip. And I was I I don't see how it's it is it's a hard time to get away from it.
SPEAKER_00It's hard, and so and God bless her. Like she listen, I'm the one that does all of the running around. By running around, I mean go to Anchorage, take the kids to the swimming meets, take, you know, she would come if if we could make it happen where both of us could go on a lot of those, but it just really hasn't been a lot of that's just not feasible. But she is the greatest partner in that as you said.
SPEAKER_05That is one of those hard things with the family business, right? Is when there is a big family thing somewhere else and we can trying to get everybody there, right?
SPEAKER_00And we can pull it off in the winter ease more easily because there's we've got great staff, don't get me wrong, we've got great staff, and we can often leave staff to run things. Um there's but in the summer it's just a different ball game. It's just a different ball game. So in fact, my buddy who called me to do the to do the trip was like, I know this is a tall ask, and you're probably not gonna be able to do it. But we do have a permit in July, and I I I know what I probably know what the answer is, but I I had to give you the opportunity. So I said, Well, yeah, it was a good I go, but that's a pretty good time to do something. It's not over the fair, it's not over Beer Fest, it's not over the bike race. Let me talk to Darcy. One thing led to another, and uh actually we tried to get it was gonna be Darcy and I. We were gonna pull try to pull that off, but um everything fell together so such that it was just better.
SPEAKER_05And actually, have Lily here watching the Rusty Campus take Darcy with you.
SPEAKER_00Well, I know. I don't think she'd say yes to that. It took going on the trip to say yes to that, but no, it um it actually turns out that that's I we're I'm excited that that's the way it just because of the the whole like taking my dad and now I get to take one of my kids.
SPEAKER_05So well, it's getting to that age where she's not gonna be around as much. She's still gonna be there, but she's not gonna be here. She's gonna she's her life is moving in other directions. That last little connection is a really cool opportunity.
SPEAKER_00It is, and it's so special. And I was able to do it with my son McConnell last fall on the grand, and so suddenly have this opportunity to do the Tet is like it I couldn't have crafted it any better. Like, gotta get in shape now, but we'll we're working on that a little bit.
SPEAKER_05You got you got a month and a half. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00A little over a month I can I can get a month, I can get 30 years of neglected solved in a month.
SPEAKER_0130 days.
SPEAKER_0530 years and 30 days. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01You got this link. A new program, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, when you when you when you get that dialed in, come on, well, we can do another episode where you're talking about your new famous.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yeah, um I'll tell you how that goes. No, it it's exciting, and then it's exciting also just to see, you know, what else, what other adventures, what what's the adventure I'll do with Grady? You know, I gotta come up with something.
SPEAKER_05So it'll show itself when it's done.
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_05Well, cool. Thank you for joining us. It's been great getting to know more about you. Yeah, well, my pleasure. And I've I've enjoyed getting since you moved to town getting to know you over the years, and and I appreciate you saying yes when I first asked if we could record our first couple episodes at the Rusty Compass. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That was uh it was uh Well, I wasn't really sure what you were up to, honestly. And now I'm still not really sure what I'm up to. Now I I've got a little bit more of an idea of what you're up to. What we need to do is get a somebody to ask you some questions, I think.
Recording Stories To Bridge Divides
SPEAKER_04That's not what this is about. This is about me asking questions.
SPEAKER_00So well, you're good. This is good. It's been a really cool I really like it because it's such a cool community, it's like a community diary, in a sense. Like you've got some really great people that you've been able to interview. Um, and I think it's a if nothing else, it there's a lot of things that we actually have in common that maybe draw us together than not. And in a community that is really divided over lots of different things, I think I think having something like this shows it it's a good, we don't have to go any further than this, but it's just good to see that there are some commonalities and there's a simple humanity that brings it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's it's been interesting to me for me over the years as I grew up. And I I didn't recognize it at the time, and I'll probably recognize it in a different way in five years. But just seeing that the different people that would come into the store, and you'd see them talking to other customers in the store, or talking to my dad, or talking to other people in the store, and then you'd see them in a in a public meeting or whatever, and the way and it's like, are these the same people? Because they were just talking so well about a different topic, uh different subject, and then you change that subject and you put it in a different room with different consequences, and the dialogue turns to a totally different level, and it's a darker level. And that's that's that's hard to see because I know there's I have relationships with friends in Haynes that aren't as strong as they used to because of things that actions that I took when I was either on the assembly or as mayor. Right. And it's and it's it's like you know, I'm it's unfortunate. I'm that it is unfortunate. I I I understand it, it's part of the part of the game, but I always tell people it's like I'm I'm still the same person. We're still having the it's just once you put a consequence to the discussion or the action, then it means more. We could have a com with a lot of people you can have a conversation and disagree, and they'll still be your friend. But when you take an action that solidifies something that they don't like, that for a lot of people takes it to a whole different level. Um, and it is what it is. But I've there's so many people I've had a chance to meet over the years. Unfortunately, there's a lot of them that are no longer with us that had some really cool stories. Yeah. Um there's some amazing things that I've heard in these two buildings throughout my years.
Closing Thanks And Next Adventures
SPEAKER_05Some amazing stories that I wish I had recorded.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're getting some of them now.
SPEAKER_05And so trying to get some of them and and just hopefully showing people that there's a lot more behind the person than most of us expect. And even though we've spent a couple hours talking, I know there's a lot more behind Lee than we can get in a couple hours. Right. But just sh hopefully showing people a glimpse of that, and maybe when they do have a disagreement, they'll remember something in there that shows that is a touch point for them that's commonality. Right. That maybe it draws us together. Maybe it I I'm hoping it draws us together and not pushes us further apart.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_05But in the meantime, I'm having fun. Marty seems to still be having fun, Sam seems to still be having fun with it. And so as long as they keep uh being willing to assist me in this, then keep doing it. You should. Yeah. So awesome. Thank you. Thank you. There you go. There's the end.