Episode 38: Kim LeDuc; Spam, Cockroaches, And A Call From God

A sore tongue that wouldn’t heal turns into a cancer diagnosis. A small-town Minnesota kid winds up leading in Mongolia. A long-distance dating message turns into a marriage and another cross-cultural leap. Kim LeDuc’s story keeps forcing the same question: what do you do when life changes fast and you trust God to make decisions?  

We trace Kim’s path from farm life in Austin, Minnesota, to youth ministry, missions in Poland, and a decade in Mongolia doing English education and discipleship. We talk honestly about culture shock, spiritual curiosity, and why relationships are what finally make a hard place feel like home. Then the conversation flips to the harder return: missionary burnout, leadership pressure, and the quiet damage that can build when you’re “doing good work” but you’re running empty.  

Kim shares what actually helped her heal: counseling, a true sabbatical, making room to grieve, and a journaling practice that sounds simple but gets practical fast. We also walk through her tongue cancer journey in Alaska, the surgery and radiation decisions, and the ongoing reality of scanxiety. And we talk about adoption, building family through foster care, and why creating smaller, safer spaces for faith can matter for people who want God but feel uneasy in church.  

If you’ve wrestled with discernment, church hurt, burnout recovery, or rebuilding your faith habits, this conversation will meet you with honesty and hope. Subscribe to Doug Has Questions, share this episode with a friend, and leave a review with the moment you want to remember.

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Transcript

Welcome And Quick Housekeeping

SPEAKER_05 0:01

Welcome to this uh episode of Doug Has Questions today. My guest is Kim Laduk. Welcome to the show, Kim. Yeah, thank you. I'm getting in the habit of this. We've got a we've got a coffee mug for you. You had answers. So love it. A small token of my appreciation for you sitting and enduring time with me.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Thank you so much. Give me something to hold on to. There you go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:26

If you want to pour your water in there or whatever, actually might not want to be that. It hasn't been washed yet.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_05 0:31

I'd hold off like using it, but you're more than welcome to hold it.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 0:35

So before we get in with Kim, Sam keeps reminding me, I need to remind you, if you enjoy these conversations, please subscribe, please like, please share with your friends. We're trying to build up our account, so hopefully, some of the not all of the funds for doing this are coming out of Doug's Bank account, but we can spread that out a little bit if we can reach certain numbers with our friends at YouTube. So appreciate any support we can get from you.

Small Town Roots And Farm Life

SPEAKER_05 0:59

So now, Kim, where'd you grow up? Where'd li where'd life begin for Kim Lanute?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah, uh small town of Austin, Minnesota. Yeah. Where is the home of spam? Where where's Austin, Minnesota? Yeah, right in the bottom of the state, almost the Iowa border.

SPEAKER_05 1:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18

I was gonna say I got a ton of families. My parents are from from Minnesota. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah. Austin.

SPEAKER_05 1:25

That's the first time I've heard of Austin, Minnesota. But that's where Spam's from.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, Warmouth is there. Okay. Yeah, my mom worked there for 37 years, retired from there. So I'm thankful for Spam.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

Yeah. I used to eat a lot of that as a kid. Not so much, but when I was younger, that was a staple for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

If mom and dad weren't home, you know, slice that up, fry it. Exactly. Dinner.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Exactly. Until I got a little older and started to read the labels and then I guess that was the most of us.

SPEAKER_05 1:55

Like, wait a second, what am I eating?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Wait, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:58

So what did what did your dad do then?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

So uh he was a farmer actually for many years. And he owned a farm, or my grandparents' farm was about ten miles from my house, where where I lived, where my family lived. And so we would go to the grandparents' farm every day with my dad and farm and I would hang out with grandma and what kind of what kind of crops were they growing?

SPEAKER_05 2:20

Uh corn and soybeans. Corn and soybeans.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:23

Any cattle or any w livestock too?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

A few, not many, but a few.

SPEAKER_05 2:27

Mainly mainly agriculture. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 2:30

Did you and did you enjoy that lifestyle growing up?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

I did. Every every day, nine 9 a.m. in the morning, three o'clock in the afternoon was coffee time. So you got your cookie and your coffee and it just was like part of the routine. So yeah, I love that part. And when I got a little bit older, the the men working in the field needed their coffee, so I got to drive the tractor out and give them their coffee.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Yeah, that was a really fun, you know, made me feel like a big kid and it was it was fun. So yeah, I'm thankful for that sort of simple life.

SPEAKER_05 3:00

Yeah. Well I I think it teaches a a pretty strong work ethic too. Yeah, yeah. Far farmers are workers. You work hard, yeah. They put a lot into that. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:12

Any any siblings?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yep, I have one older sister. Okay. Four years almost four years older than me.

SPEAKER_05 3:19

Were you guys pretty close growing up?

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah. We're closer now.

SPEAKER_05 3:24

Closer now.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

We we were close, but I was a little sister and I thought she was so cool. So, you know, I would always pick on her and you know, push her buttons because she was so cool, right? But she she didn't love that. So there were some seasons where uh we were always great, but you know, she didn't love her little sister tagging along always.

SPEAKER_05 3:44

But now we're good friends and it's I think my sister felt the same about her little brother.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah But you thought she was cool, right?

SPEAKER_05 3:52

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I still think she's cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:56

Yeah, no, she's one of my favorite people in the world.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

So cool.

SPEAKER_05 4:00

And and as well as no matter how much I tell the table people, it's no matter how much we would fight and beck her over chores and stuff at home. Anywhere else, I I knew nobody was gonna pick on me because my sister's gonna kick their butt if they did.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah, there's school and everything.

SPEAKER_05 4:15

I didn't I I never worried about anybody picking on me because I I knew my older sister had my back.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Oh, what a gift.

SPEAKER_05 4:22

Oh, it was huge. Yeah, yeah, you know, a lot of people are nervous going into freshman year. I was, but after the first month or whatever, I was like, yeah, no, big sister's got this. I'm I'm I'm covered here.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

And did you ever need her support to kind of back you up?

SPEAKER_05 4:37

Not r not really. And if they picked on me and word got back, it wasn't gonna go it wasn't gonna go good with them. And that didn't have to do anything else. Nice. Yeah. So cool. Yeah. No old older older sisters are a blessing.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

They are.

SPEAKER_05 5:06

Of course, I think younger brothers are a blessing also of the younger sisters. Of course. I mean, not in our own way.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

But yeah, I know older sisters are a good thing to have.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:17

So what about what about school? Did you enjoy school? Any sports, athletics?

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

I um yep, I enjoyed school. Um, I played softball in high school or all through school. Okay. Softball player, second base, where you didn't have to throw very far. So uh my arm, they call me my dad called me scatterarm, but second base you don't have to throw very far. So I like that. So yeah, that was I love I like being on team sports. I love team, the aspect of team. And so it was good to to be on the team.

SPEAKER_05 5:51

Well w when you're in school, what are your dreams for what you were gonna be when you grew up?

Faith Becomes Personal

SPEAKER_05 5:57

Yeah, yeah, good question.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

What what was that like coming up in I know, I I kinda had no idea. Um when I graduated from high school, I I just knew two things. I knew I love God and I love people. So I was like, what do I do? And there was a Christian college about a couple hours away in St. Paul area. Uh-huh. And so I was the name of it. Uh Northwestern College. Yep. Yeah, University of Northwestern now. But yeah, so I sense God leading me there and I went there. At first I majored in children's ministry, thought I wanted to work with children, and yeah, then God shifted it to youth ministry. So then that was what I finally majored in was youth ministry.

SPEAKER_05 6:39

So was was faith a big component of your life growing up? Was that something you were on your own, or was that modeled by your parents? How did how did that call in with God first come to you?

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, yeah, good question. Um, super thankful. My parents became Christians just about two years before I was born. Prior to that, they attended a a Lutheran church where they they were religious, they went every week, they sat in a pew, they did the things, but but they didn't have a personal relationship with God until they went to this meeting and they they shared about at that meeting how how they could have a relationship with God. And from that moment my parents' life changed, which meant when I came into the world, they then raised me in a way to know God personally through Jesus. And so so thankful for that. So we we would go to church every week and those things, but mainly my my mom would actually read the Bible with me every night before bed. And I was just a young girl, about five years old, and somehow I knew I was a naughty girl. I would hit my sister, and you know, I was pretty naughty, you know? And you it it's in my heart I knew that I I did wrong. And there's a little girl, and I asked my mom, Mom, how can my bad things be forgiven? And she shared with me about how Jesus died to take away the punishment for your sins. Your sins can be forgiven. And do you want to trust in him? And yes, I want that. I wanted my my wrongs to be made right with God. And so that night I prayed and asked Jesus to come into my life and save me. And then remember I went downstairs so excited, told my dad, Dad, John, I believed in Jesus, and and he was so excited, and went to church and you know, tell all the old grannies and you know. Um, yeah, so there was there was a turning point when I put my faith in Jesus as my my own, like my savior. And then of course it was a journey of learning to what does it mean to walk with God? How do we do that? What does that look like? And and that's a journey that I've been on for 40-some years, you know.

SPEAKER_05 8:50

So when your parents had that, went to that meeting wherever so did they switch out of the Lutheran church? Did they continue with the Lutheran church and just walked with God in their own way?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

They at that point they switched, yep. So they started attending a different church at that point. Okay. Yeah, one that more I t taught how to have a relationship with God and how to w walk with him and taught them the the Bible and and what God says and and so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:16

How big was your school growing up, going through high school?

SPEAKER_00 9:19

I think it was maybe two hundred and fifty in my graduating class, somewhere in there.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

I thought you were gonna say two hundred and fifty in your high school. 250 in your graduating class.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:29

So was there a was there a group with similar beliefs that you're able to latch on to, or was was your decision to follow this path following Jesus, did that kind of make you an outcast in any way? How did your how did your friends deal with that?

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

I I wouldn't say outcast, but I I wouldn't say well understood. I I didn't feel like I had friends that that I could really talk to about things, right? I had all these things going on in my heart, but no one talked to about them until later on in high school. Um I had one friend that was a Christian, and then I had another friend that became a Christian, and so there was kind of a small group of us, and we could talk about the Lord together and what it means to to follow him. And um, yeah, there were there was a um kind of a uh in southern Minnesota this group called Tech. Teens Encounter Christ. And you go on this weekend long retreat and you would encounter the love of God, you would go and get to know people and and and it was a a place that really um spurred me on in my walk. There's people all over Minnesota that love the Lord, not just you know, some little kid in Austin, you know. Yeah. So yeah, things like that really helped spur me on in my walk.

SPEAKER_05 10:43

So you get your degree in youth ministry, correct? Mm-hmm. What what were you envisioning doing with that when when you ended up with your youth ministry degree?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, yeah. I always thought, man, I never want to work in a church is what I thought.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

But in my third year, was that was that because of your parents' experience or what was the reason why you didn't because usually when you're thinking of ministry, right? Everybody's thinking church. So why were you thinking you wanted to be in ministry but not in a church?

SPEAKER_00 11:15

That's a good question. I I I don't know if I knew. I never saw myself as a pastor or as a that sort of thing, so I thought, yeah, I just didn't envision it. I had I guess maybe no credit for it. No, I hadn't seen other women in ministry as as a career, so I hadn't really seen it.

SPEAKER_05 11:33

Um were you thinking maybe more missionary style?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah, and more maybe like parachurch, like help missionaries or help different Christian organizations, that kind of thing, rather than in a local church. Okay. That was I I really had no idea, but that was kind of what I was thinking about.

SPEAKER_05 11:51

So out of college, where did that lead

Youth Ministry And First Church Role

SPEAKER_05 11:54

you?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

So my third year of college, I had to do an internship, and I had uh have an uncle who lived in northern Minnesota, and he was a pastor, and he ha was friends with another pastor, and so this other pastor said, Hey, we really need an intern. And so my uncle calls me, hey, they really need an intern. What'd you do? And I had no idea, you know what it meant. Um, but I did it. So I and I had to do it for school, so so for the summer I went to small town northern Minnesota, Grand Rapids, Minnesota, and lived with this sweet, sweet, sweet older couple. They were old men and I walked with them for 20 years, so they were really old then, but lived with them in their basement and um yeah, learned to love um church. So I was a youth director and learned to stuff to love being in like serving in a church, you know, has my job. Um so I did that for many years. Uh worked at this so after I graduated then they created a full-time position for me to come back. And so they had never hired a full full-time person. So then when I graduated they did.

SPEAKER_05 13:03

So your job just what what were you doing as the youth director at the church?

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah, yeah. So leading like our Wednesday night youth group, and then um just hanging out with kids during the week, going to their games, supporting them, encouraging them, meeting with them at Dairy Queen every chance I could, you know, like just being with them, discipling in twos and threes and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 13:27

Yeah. So you're you're you're doing ministerial work, but just you weren't doing the preaching aspect of it. It's more of a smaller group.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:36

Just got more with your actions.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, I would I would lead the youth group, you know, 30, 40 kids, and I would do the teaching time for that. Okay. Not on a Sunday morning preach to the congregation. I didn't do that much ever really.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Um how long did you do that?

SPEAKER_00 13:53

So I did that six to eight years.

Poland Missions And Culture Shock

SPEAKER_00 14:00

In the midst of that, I moved to Poland for a year and served as a missionary in Poland. And so I did that, but there's a gap in there.

SPEAKER_05 14:11

How do you go from northern Minnesota to Poland?

SPEAKER_00 14:13

I know, right, yeah. So when I was at university, I was in the lunch line, just minding my business, getting my lunch. There was this old man behind me. He said, Hey, you want to go on a mission trip to Poland? I was like, I didn't know anything. I didn't know where Poland was, I didn't know anything. He told me more about it, and so I think that was my sophomore year of college, after my sophomore year of college. So I went on this mission trip three weeks to Poland. We worked at a camp and absolutely loved it. Changed my heart, changed my world of just seeing God at work in other parts of the world, right? Like, yeah, I I knew knew that, but I'd never experienced that. And so it was so fun.

SPEAKER_05 14:54

Where in Poland bring you?

SPEAKER_00 14:55

So it's a town in the kind of northwest a little bit, it's called Bidgost. So that's where we were. We traveled down some to Krakow and Warsaw, but where I was was up in Bidghost. What was Krakow like?

SPEAKER_02 15:10

That's so cool. So cool.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course went to ushers a few times and then.

SPEAKER_05 15:17

That's what I was that's what I was wondering to say.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:20

That had a left of an impression.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah, that was yeah, yeah, but there's I mean there's almost no words, right? In fact, I just listened to Michael Kobeac here about his so his grandfather.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

That's just like that people we know and love, we know are there. So Yeah, so good to so the reality is real, right? We can't ignore it, we can't deny it. Like that's real, that happened, and that's affected you know, millions of people.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

And so yeah, it's good to be there.

SPEAKER_05 15:52

So you went so you went there for three weeks when you're in college. So then when you're in northern Minnesota, you said you were there for a year? Was that kind of a similar program, or how did that happen?

SPEAKER_00 16:02

So then when I was in northern Minnesota, I still kind of can't believe this, but somehow I convinced the church to let me take a group of high schoolers over to Poland. So I was like 22 or 23. Took this Hey, let me take a bunch of kids over to Poland. So can we raise thousands of dollars and take that trip to Poland? Somehow they believed in me, which which was which was really cool.

SPEAKER_05 16:24

That has to be really humbling and satisfying at the same time. It was it was that they had that much trust in you at that young age to do that.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Probably more trust in me than I had me. You know, like they believed in me and I had a couple other adults with me to help, and yeah, it so it was a great trip. So we did that once, and then two years later we did it again. And then after that trip, they one of my closest friends there, she invited me, hey, would you come back and live here with us and be a part of our youth team here and serve with us? And yeah, I went home and prayed about it, and had to tell my pastor with fear and trembling, like, thank God is calling me to go to Poland and and of course he blesses me and sends me and go and And so I did.

SPEAKER_05 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:10

So were were you living with the Polish family then? Or did you have your own housing at Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

So no, I they helped me, the pastor of the church helped me get an apartment. Okay. And he helped me move into this apartment. Then he had to teach me how to get groceries. So, you know, yeah, you go and get and you daily get your bread and daily get your everything. And then he he brought helped me bring it back to my apartment, was helping me put it away. He was putting everything in the fridge. The bread, the pretzels, the everything was going in the fridge. I didn't know why, but okay, that's what we do here. So okay. The next night I was in my bed, and yeah, there's cockroaches climbing up the water bed next to me. So then I learned about cockroaches. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that year my mom sent me a lot of spam, actually. Because I just didn't know what to do.

SPEAKER_05 18:06

What to do, and cockroaches can't get into a can of spade.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah, safe from it. I wasn't gonna cook much because that just, you know, makes the problem worse, so I thought. So it yeah. So that was funny.

SPEAKER_05 18:19

But air freight and spam to Poland.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 18:22

Keep her not a healthy. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:26

Did you and did you enjoy your time over there with the kids?

SPEAKER_00 18:29

And yeah, it was so good. It yeah, it changed my life. I love Poland, I love the people of Poland. Um yeah, I at the end of that year I sense God calling me back to America, um, but I still love Poland. It was still in my heart. But um, yeah, I sense him calling me back, and I you know, I didn't really know what his next steps were.

SPEAKER_05 18:50

Um, but they before we get to your next step, what what would you say is your the biggest lesson you learned while in Poland? What's your biggest takeaway? Maybe not a lesson, but just the thing that struck you the most from that year in Poland.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Hmm. That's a great question. Uh maybe two things. One, I learned how deeply I could love a people that were not my people. Like I deeply loved the Polish people that I was with. You know, a different culture. I mean, we actually look similar, blonde hair and blue eyes like but different culture. Um and so I love them. And um Yeah, uh looking back now, I think I was so young, so naive, I really didn't know much. I had not much training at that point because later my husband and I we did missions again. A lot more training, a lot more. I had a lot more to give. This time I just was a young kid who loved Jesus and here I am. No skills about leadership and how to train and how to do all this stuff.

SPEAKER_05 19:59

So Don't you think sometimes you can make a better connection that way? That if it's just coming from the heart instead of we're going by the certain structure that we need to do?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:08

That maybe you reach somebody different that way than Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah, yeah. I sure hope so. I mean, yeah, I don't know if you're exactly right.

SPEAKER_05 20:16

I think you were called there for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:18

And I don't think you would have been called if you weren't prepared for what the mission was at that time.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:25

So you wait, so you got called to come back to the US. You didn't really know what your next step was. How r how rude that they let just because you're gone for a year. I mean but they made a new job.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

They had a new job for you.

SPEAKER_05 20:51

So what's the new job?

SPEAKER_00 20:52

So then I was kind of I don't know, children and families, pastor sort of thing. I just did a bunch of everything. Love people and serve people. Clearly what my job uh was, I don't remember, but I did a lot of just different things. And and loved it, and that was good. So I was thankful for that. That church really became my church home, my family, and still to this day they're they're family. So I appreciate that.

Choosing Mongolia And Finding Purpose

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Um yeah, but in the midst of that, um I felt God tugging in my heart again for the nations, you know, like there's nations that have never heard about Jesus, right? And so there was this pull in my heart, and uh my best friend was living in China at the time, serving as a missionary. She invited me to come to China and visit her. Little did I know it was kind of a recruitment trip. She might be working like and it worked. So I folks can be sneaky that way. Because to take that jump from northern Minnesota to Small town girl uh living in Asia. Like that's a big job, right? And so but to go and see her world, see her doing it and and thriving was was really helpful.

SPEAKER_05 22:09

Where where in China?

SPEAKER_00 22:10

She at that time was in Nangchung, which was in the southern part of China. Okay. So when I got back from that trip, I contacted the same organization and talked to the recruiter, and this recruiter said, Hey, you know, uh, I really think you should consider Mongolia. And and the reason for that was she said, um, in Mongolia they mostly eat meat and potatoes, not a lot of vegetables. And one weird thing about me is I don't like vegetables. No, like zero vegetables. So when this recruiter said they don't eat any vegetables in Mongolia, I was like, that sounds like my kind of people. So interestingly enough, God sort of used that in my heart. I went home and I prayed about it and I looked it up on a map because I also didn't know where Mongolia was, right? I had no idea. It's northern of China, now I know. Um so, anyways, uh through through that, um God is leading me to Mongolia.

SPEAKER_05 23:07

So how old are you now when you're going to Mongolia?

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Uh twenty-eight.

SPEAKER_05 23:11

Twenty-eight years old and gonna move to Mongolia.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:15

Was that on like a one-year deal, two years? Was there a time commitment, or is it just as long as you still enjoyed it and you had it out, you could come home if this wasn't for you?

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Yeah, it was a two-year commitment at first. Um yeah. My first year in Mongolia, I didn't love it. I I I was not thriving. I mean, I was fine, but it wasn't like, oh, I can see why I'm here, this is so great. It wasn't like that. But I enjoyed the first year and out of obedience, I stayed for the second year. After the second year, of course, I actually deeply fell in love with Mongolia and the people, and everything changed.

SPEAKER_05 23:52

What what do you think was the change between that first year and towards the end of the second year where you went from okay, I can do this but not really my place, to just absolutely loving it. Was it connections you built with people, just a better understanding, giving more into your faith? What would you Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yeah, I think exactly that the first year I was there, I only could see my surroundings. And so I was in the capital city and it's the coldest capital city in the world. One of the most polluted cities in the world. So it was cold, it was polluted, it was dusty, it's a desert, it was you look around and that's what you see. But then when you start to build relationships and people, when you connect with people, that changed everything. And so of course it takes time to build relationships. My first year, two years, you know, small relationships, but once it was death, then that really changed my heart.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

So do you speak Polish and Mongolian?

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Polish not much.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Not much?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah. Mongolian also not much, but some enough to survive.

SPEAKER_05 25:00

So they speak a lot of English over there then or thankfully, yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Yeah. And and I went as an English teacher, so I couldn't communicate with my students and things in English.

SPEAKER_05 25:11

Yeah. So you were at a was that at a Christian school that you were at or just a regular school as a teacher and then you were doing the missionary on the side? How did how did that happen? Because because it I was I I thought when you were first talking about China, that there's a lot of hostility towards Christians in China. And so if if you were going to go back to China, I mean even think about your friend, were they is she was she worried about her safety at that time at all? Has that gotten worse over time? Were you worried if you were going to China about your safety as a Christian missionary?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

At that moment in history, like 2007, 2008, China was had a little bit more lenience and grace. They weren't pressing down on Christians as they are today. So today, China, the world would it would be so different. At that time, there was kind of an open season of they still had to be careful, they still had to watch what they say and their rooms were bugged and all that, but it was it was much, much different than it would be today.

SPEAKER_05 26:11

What about Mongolia?

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah, the beauty of Mongolia is they um they actually have freedom of religion there, and so they're they're a Buddhist nation traditionally. So Buddh Buddhism is predominant, but they're open to other religions and and so there wasn't a government persecution like there was in China, so there's an openness there. So yeah, I was really thankful for that in real life there that way.

SPEAKER_05 26:39

While you're there, did you explore Buddhism at all? Just to figure out, hey, what's this about?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yeah, because we wanted to well yes, in the sense we wanted to understand our our students, our classmates, our people, like understand their backgrounds, like what what they were thinking, what they were believing. So in that sense, yes, like I wanted to learn more about it. And what we sensed a lot is there was there was still like just a lot of fear and a lot of like a lot of peace, but like there wasn't peace um in the midst of that. And and so yeah, anyways, I don't know if you want to go down that road, but absolutely go down all roads too.

SPEAKER_05 27:28

There's very few stop signs on this show.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Right, nice. Well yeah, so in Mongolia, it was also mixed um with with what's called shamanism, which is like kind of like what we would call witchcraft, or it is witchcraft, believing in the spirits and the the the spirit power, which as a Christian I also believe in them. Um but they would call on evil spirits then to to come, and if your son was sick, you would call the shaman to your house, and the shaman will say, Oh, well, you need to do this, this, this, and pay me some money, and then hopefully your son will get better, or if you want to get married, you would ask the shaman, what's a good day for me to get married, and the shaman will tell you, and who's some money, and and so it is this kind of mixture of being afraid of the spirit realm, you know, because you're afraid to anger the spirits. And often a shaman would say, Oh, if you've been spending time with Christians, I see you've got some a dark spot or something. So it's no joke, right? There's no messing around. Like I believe all of that is real, and also there is a higher, a higher Holy Spirit, a good, you know, God's spirit that's all powerful and good. And and these spirits are real also, but not good, right? They're actually against God and against people. So, anyways.

SPEAKER_05 28:54

So what did you ever feel threatened? I mean, with uh because the shaman are telling people that have you I see some bad mojo in your or whatever, because have you been around Christians? Was there any of that backlash to you being over there trying to spread that word?

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yeah, n never personally, I never felt like personally threatened or anything, but it's definitely around my first year maybe. I lived in an apartment building and there m there was a shaman on a different level of the building and they would often beat the drums and and do the things and it was y it was kind of around you, right? You're surrounded by it, um which I didn't love. You know, I didn't love waking up in the morning and the drums were gone or you know, but yeah, I never personally felt that.

SPEAKER_05 29:45

You have good rapport with your students?

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Yeah. So get it.

SPEAKER_05 29:50

Pretty big smile comes on really quickly when you think about your students.

unknown 29:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:54

What what ages were they?

SPEAKER_00 29:56

So I worked at well, my first three years I did what was called like teacher training. I would go into public schools um and work with the Mongolian English teacher at that school. Okay. And so they were learning different methodology to teach English. The normal kind of um pattern in in most of Asia actually is this kind of rote. They'll write words on the board, okay, students learn these words. They would talk to the students in Mongolian the whole time, and okay, but learn these words. And so kind of a different approach, right? So we want the students talking. So kind of a reverse instead of teacher standing and leading everything where it's student-centered, my goal is to get you and you talking, like, you know, small groups of kids talking. And um so, anyways, teach training the teachers in some different methodology that would help their students elevate their English. So we did. So that was really special because I would go to places uh travel from from my apartment to places all over that look like National Geographic might show up at any moment, like insane, just thinking, what am I doing? Right? Here's this little girl from Minnesota, like in this place of You're getting paid to experience all that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, going into their schools, and they all wore uniforms and had outdoor outdoor outhouses, many of them, and yeah, it was really a special place.

SPEAKER_05 31:35

So how long were you over there?

SPEAKER_00 31:37

So I did that for three years, and then I felt God calling me back to America once again.

Long Distance Dating To Marriage

SPEAKER_00 31:44

That's when my husband Mark and I well kind of met in the midst. We got married and we ended up going back to Mongolia. So total ten years I was in.

SPEAKER_05 31:52

So you you met when you came back from the US or you met while you were in Mongolia?

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yeah, technically I was in we met while I was in Mongolia, he was in Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_05 32:03

And so I knew was this on a dating site?

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Exactly. Yeah, Kristen Mingledon. Kristen Mingledon.

SPEAKER_05 32:13

You're in Mongolia, he's in Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:16

Oh my gosh, that's in that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Yeah. I think I put on my profile, Minnesota, right? Because that's where I was from in Wisconsin. So Yeah, it's right next to each other.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

That makes sense. What was his reaction when you're like, I'm gonna be Mongolia? He's like, Oh, she's lying! She's lying on her profile.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah, right. I know, I don't know how we got over that. I don't know. Um, yeah, so we uh started communicating, and um I think what I appreciated about Mark was he was he was intentional the whole time with me, like wanting to get to know me and get to know me more enough. A lot of guys on these things are just like, hey, how are you? and just random they're not going somewhere, but I felt like Mark was going somewhere, and so we I know you laugh now, but we started to read a book together and then we talk about the book, and like we're just trying to be intentional of like going deeper together. Um But we hadn't met, so I think we started communicating in February.

SPEAKER_05 33:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

And I'm in Mongolia, he's in Wisconsin. And then it was like April, and my parents were like, hey, so when do we get to meet that guy that you've been communicating with? And I'm like, Well, I don't know, you can buy them first. You can't wait till I'm in. That's usually how this goes.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

So this is I don't know if you know my husband Mark, fairly reserved and not exactly shy, but kind of shy. And anyways, so they invited him to come. He lived five hours away from them. So they invited him to come to their house for dinner. Well, I'm in Mongolia and have never met him. And he went. Hey, that's that's very, very much before you've even met the girl. Okay, so bird. And driving five hours. Yeah, and ironically, there was a snowstorm that day, and so he got on his first road and he was fish-tailing. He had a big truck, he was fish-tailing, he's like, I can't do this. He's like, I'll make it to the main road if I get there, we'll give it a shot. So he almost turned around, which could have been, we never could have been the end.

unknown 34:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

But he didn't. And and so he went to my parents' house, and I'm on the other side of the world, and of course, anxiously waiting, you know. And my prayer was, God, would you help my parents? That they would either say yes or no. I didn't want them to say, Well, we like him, but we're not sure about what would I do then? So I want to.

SPEAKER_05 34:48

You either love him or you need to cheap right away.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Yeah, that was my prayer, and so I was on the other side of the world waiting. Um and so afterwards, of course, they both loved him and they're like, Yes, you know, he seems great.

SPEAKER_05 35:02

While they're there, did you did you have FaceTime or anything like that? Do you have a Skype? Did you do a video call while everybody was together so you could see him?

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Or at that time Skype was what people used, but I don't know why we didn't Skype at that time. I just anxiously waited until the whole deal was over. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_05 35:20

Looking back Hidd you scheduled Mark and all? Yeah, you could have to do that. So you guys you guys knew each yeah knew each other looked like and everything like that. Yeah, yeah. You knew his profile picture wasn't fake. Yeah, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Yeah, exactly. So and the irony is, and we kind of still joke, my mom is an amazing cook. Amazing. So she made the big pot roast, the potatoes, the apple pie, the whatever, you know, like feast. So he's like, oh, you know, this girl can probably cook too. So then the joke is well, my mom kind of blowing his hand. I'm growing in my skills, but I'm gonna say that that has not been my my expertise in cooking. But so they loved him, and then I think that was in April, and then in May, I was moving back to America anyways.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

And so then when I first flew into America, I flew into the St. Paul area where the airport was, and my cousin was having a graduation party. All the family's there, aunts, uncles, cousins, everyone is there. Guess where Mark has to come in?

SPEAKER_05 36:33

Oh, you put him into the rain on this.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Right?

SPEAKER_05 36:37

Man, he did well. A lot of guys would have been like, wait a second here. I don't know if I can handle this. Right?

SPEAKER_00 36:46

That's what and you know, Mark is pretty reserved.

SPEAKER_05 36:50

I I've always liked Mark. I've got a I've I I've you know that's he's he's tougher than I thought. This is pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:02

So you have to be thinking that this guy's a keeper. If he's willing to do all this, he obviously is very fond of you. Yes if he's willing to go through all this.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Yeah. Yeah. He was being intentional, and I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then, so I'm at this house where the graduation party is, and he pulls up, and so I go outside to go meet him for the very first time ever. And so, of course, all the family.

SPEAKER_05 37:32

Can we get in the truck and go down a couple blocks and have a conversation?

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Yeah. So he met with the whole family. So he comes in, of course, and meets everyone. We joke, this is maybe the only time I've ever seen him not hungry. He was too nervous to eat, so everyone's giving him food. I've no blame him at all. I'd be nervous too.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

So so he made it through. And yeah, so after that, we started dating and got engaged and uh got married.

SPEAKER_05 38:03

And so then you go back to Mongolia as husband and wife.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

So then we were praying about actually where to go. And he had kind of heard some of my things about Mongolia, how I didn't actually love it that much at the beginning, and cold and it's polluted all the things. So he wasn't so excited, like, let's go to Mongolia.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

He was willing, but he wasn't like the way you just described it, it doesn't, you're not really painting a rosy picture of this. Yeah, he's gotta meet mom and dad before he meets you, he's gotta meet you with the whole family watching. So I don't think a little pollution and coal is gonna stop him if that's where you want to go.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Right? And yeah, exactly. And mostly like God, we'll go where you want us to go, God where he wants us to go. And yeah, after some prayer and discerning, uh, we sensed it was back to Mongolia. And so we had been married, I think, six months, and we went back to Mongolia together.

SPEAKER_05 39:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:02

Married six months and then Yeah. Chao, we're out to Mongolia.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:08

And what was the role you guys were doing? What was the plan for Mongolia this time? Were you still teaching? Was Mark teaching?

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yeah, so we went back to be kind of team leaders of a team, and I was still teaching, and he had to start by learning the language. So he was a language student. Um and and that's all getting fine, but it's hard. So when you're learning the language, I mean you feel like a three-year-old, right? Like you really it's it's hard on a it's just hard, you know, like Yeah, I suck at it.

SPEAKER_05 39:39

Yeah, I'm still I'm still trying to learn English. Much less a different language.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_05 39:45

And I I think I think it's I I blame it on my hearing. Because I I can usually I can pick it up reading and writing fairly quickly. The two languages I've tried with French and Spanish. That's hearing people say it and processing that, oh jeez, that's not good at all. I I'm horrible at that.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah, and I think you're right. It starts with hearing, and if you can't hear it well, then it's hard to reproduce it, right?

SPEAKER_05 40:16

Yeah, I really, really struggled with the hearing part of it. Yeah, I think it for us having to take French in college, um professor, she was we have to do a verbal conversation back and forth. I can't remember what it had to tell her, but I just kind of like whatever the words were, can you repeat that, please? Can you repeat that, please? And finally, she just said it in English, and then I wasn't able to respond in French because I knew what I knew what the response was, but yeah, I was not understanding her. I was telling her to slow down, telling her repeat it, and I think she passed me just because that was so she wouldn't have to see me again. Oh terrible, yeah. And and I feel bad when I go I go somewhere, or people come into the store, they they're apologizing for their English. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on. You are so far ahead aware of that like any other language. Yeah, no apology is necessary. We can figure this out. Totally. The courage to try to man, I gave up years ago trying to learn another language.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So for Mark, new marriage, and then it's learning language, and that's hard, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:29

All the things learning in a new country, new surroundings. Yeah. That's a lot of change all at once.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it wasn't the easiest, but you know, we we did alright. Um and then after our I think our first year there, there was a new church that started. And the church was started um with Mongolians, but with some missionaries, and they would do everything in English and Mongolian.

SPEAKER_05 41:56

And so Oh, so the service, they'd say it English, and then they'd say it Mongolian or vice versa.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Yeah, exactly. So one the other would translate. Yeah, it was it was awesome for for for that time. Because then the goal would be every Mongolian wants to learn English, right? So they would come, right? They would come and learn about Jesus as they're learning English, you know, and so it was a great bridge. And for us who mostly spoke only English, it was great, you know, to be a part of the service. And um, so being a part of that church, and we built lots of relationships, and that really like that became our family, like deep, deep family. And yeah, grew to to love Mongolia even deeper um through the relationships at that church. So yeah. So when we left Mongolia, I don't know, seven years later or something, that was probably the hardest thing I've ever done, having to leave.

SPEAKER_05 42:52

Leave leaving that group of those friends that you'd made, those relationships.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:56

Yeah. So it's harder to leave them than leaving your family to head to Mongolia. Not put you on the spot. We get because I think in the and and I don't think it's that big of a stretch to say that because you I think in our hearts we know our family's always gonna be with us wherever we're at.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:16

The f these friends you've made, some might endure for a while, a lot of them just because of the time and not being around and their shorter time frame that you've built the relationship. Yeah, you don't you don't know how long those friendships are gonna last.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:31

That's but you're always gonna have your family. Exactly too.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when we were in Mongolia, I think after about three years or so, we invited there's a young Mongolian girl, I think she was about fifteen or sixteen at the time, who uh her she didn't have a stable place to live. And so, anyways, we invited her to come and live with us and and not just not just live with us like a roommate, but like come be a part of our family. And so she was still in high school. At the time, and so we we loved her as our own, like as our daughter, and and uh yeah, so sweet to to grow in family life, growing I I didn't have any biological children, and so learning to be a mom and March learning to be a dad, and yeah, cross-cultural family, and it's really, really sweet. Um yeah, so leaving her was How long did she stay with you then? I think it would have been about three years or two.

unknown 44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:27

I'm guessing you're still in touch with her.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. She's on the on the so on my I don't have my phone. On my phone there's a picture of her. She came to visit us in Mongolia. I mean in Haynes last year. Did she? So she came here and then we recently also adopted uh a a daughter here. So so our Mongolian daughter and our adopted daughter in one photo together here in Haynes was was pretty special.

SPEAKER_05 44:52

Oh neat.

unknown 44:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:54

How what does she do in Mongolia now?

SPEAKER_00 44:56

So she's married and she has two children and she's a mom.

SPEAKER_05 45:00

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But she's doing well.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

She's doing well, yeah. Really proud of her. She's actually doing some translation work, so she's translating English books into Mongolian, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_05 45:12

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:14

Well, I hope you and Mark are proud of helping her on that uh journey to where she is now. I'm sure she's grateful to both of you guys for that step up and assistance as well. I actually proved it by coming from Mongolia to Haynes to see you guys.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

Yeah, it's so special. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Burnout After The Mission Field

SPEAKER_05 45:33

So you you come back to the States. Where do you head after Mongolia?

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Yeah. Um we didn't know where to go. Um, and it was 2020, so it was that season. We won't say the beloved word, but it was that season.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

It was that season that we all want to forget about.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so we uh uh but actually when we came back from Mongolia, we were kind of in burnout. Like Mark was teaching also at the university. He didn't love teaching, he didn't love being in front of kids every day. Like he just that wasn't his jam so much, and and we just kind of poured out our life and we were sort of in burnout. So we weren't doing well. Um, and then even as a result of that, like our marriage wasn't doing awesome. Like we were fine, but we weren't awesome. Like we were really in kind of a broken place. And so when we came back, uh we had a lot of healing that we needed to do. Um, and our church, our sending church is was actually from Seattle, and they sent us to a place called Alongside, which is for specifically for missionaries and and pastors in a place to go, to be healed, to be refreshed, to be restored, and people in transition were a place for for us.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

And so what church in Seattle?

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Uh church called Mosaic Community Church. Where's it at? Uh on the 99, um, kind of past shoreline.

SPEAKER_05 47:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:04

Yeah. I hadn't heard of it.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:07

So they send you to this. Is it like a retreat or is it a low?

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Like a three-week-long intensive deal for counseling, for rest, for yeah, we did like group counseling, we did first like marriage counseling and all the things. So that really helped restore us and set us on the path of.

SPEAKER_05 47:27

So the fact that they have this available, in my mind, it's kicking in that this is what you guys experienced is not abnormal for people that are serving overseas. What what do you think it is that is it just being in a in an unfamiliar environment that you're trying to adjust to? What yeah. Do you have any idea what the factors are that when you're coming back you're not doing as well as you want to? And apparently most that are coming back because they have a facility to help people through that.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Right, right, right. I think there's a lot of layers. I think one of them is when you're on the mission field, sometimes you sort of move up in leadership and then you're kind of at the top, but then you don't have any support over you or like to cover you. And that's a little bit what happened with us. In c we had leadership in other countries and places, but no one in country day-to-day with us, as as kind of our covering. We covered a lot, but we we needed someone to sort of be with us. We didn't have that. I think that's one level is there's not always good support on the field. And I think also uh it's challenging, right, when you're you're living overseas, you're you're supported by other people who are supporting you to be there, and then you're struggling, and what do you do? Like if you tell so-and-so, well, they might send you home, or if you you know, like there's these kind of ramifications of of that. I wouldn't necessarily say that was our like we didn't have that fear, but also we knew like, hey, if we're not healthy, we we would have to go, you know, and so I think there's a lot of dynamics involved to to get the support that you need.

SPEAKER_05 49:14

So do you think there's have you the best way to put this? Have you mentioned that or was that something that was brought up like when you're at this retreat where others feeling the same thing? So maybe they're making changes where you do have more of that support while you're in country?

SPEAKER_00 49:34

I think they're really trying, yeah. In all the different organizations and churches that send missionaries, they're trying and trying to do it better, to do it well and and to support well. And and now that's in my heart. I want to be able to help support missionaries who are all in the field that are coming back, who need it. Um I think they're trying, I think. Um and also a lot of or not a lot, but like there's things like identity, right? You get so focused on your work, your ministry, your everything, but it's actually not who we are, right, as a person. But it's all kind of mixied up, you know, and and so there's a lot of our own inner healing work of who am I as as a human, right? And and and not as a missionary or as a teacher or as a whatever role we might have, like who am I? And um so I think this three-week counseling deal helped us parse out some of those things and helped um yeah, just re-guide us, repurpose us.

SPEAKER_05 50:34

You you felt that was well worth going to those three weeks?

SPEAKER_00 50:37

So good, yeah, yeah, yeah. Life-changing, in fact, yeah. Okay. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_05 50:42

So what? So you come out of your three weeks and then you're uh are you still sane in the Seattle area? Or where are you going after that?

SPEAKER_00 50:51

We originally landed back at my parents' house in Minnesota and stayed there, and they yes, we stayed there. Um but then we thought, well, our ascending church was in Seattle, and so maybe we'll go there for a season, um, and then and discern where to go. And so we're in Seattle, and I kind of took a sabbatical. I needed some time just to to be with the Lord and to process to grieve all that it, you know, the loss of leaving everything I loved and people I loved. Um I have a sabbatical mark works. And then in the midst of that, can I interrupt you?

SPEAKER_05 51:24

Yeah, what what does that look like when you say you want to when you're taking your sabbatical that you want to get yourself right for other people that are that might be listening to this that are like, I could use that? What what are some suggestions you have? Was that just kind of like a daily Bible study? Was that meeting with other friends? What how did you process that during that time to get you yourself to where you want to be?

Grief, Journaling, And Hearing God

SPEAKER_00 51:49

Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. The bummer is there's no like easy way through it or around it. Like you have to kind of go through it and through some of the counselings I was doing counseling, online counseling, and one thing my counselor said was you should just pick a day, maybe it's every day or every Tuesday or something, and and and use that time and and really just grieve. Like maybe look at your photos and just grieve. Like you love them, and now you don't live with them and go through that process. And and this was painful when when you when this happened, this really hurt, and like grieve your losses and your your hopes and all the things and kind of set it set aside set aside time, even put on your schedule, Tuesday at four o'clock, I'm gonna grieve, you know? Like that seems so weird. Yeah, but that's what she had recommended in the sense of like don't just say, Yeah, yeah, you're gonna grieve, but actually like take some time, be intentional to to do that. And I think that gave me freedom. I don't know if I actually put on my calendar and did it that way, but it gave me the freedom of like, yeah, this is hard, and I do miss these people, and I do wish this was different, or you know, like I think that was one is the time just to grieve, which you know for me meant trying it out and journaling and processing with the Lord and and all the things and counseling and um I think that I think having one or two people to process with me it was helpful. I had a few friends that were super intentional to do that with me. Um I was really needed in that season. And I think too, a time of I I wasn't pouring out a lot, I wasn't doing doing much ministry per se. I wasn't meeting with others and trying to encourage others. Like I I had nothing to give, you know, and so I had a season of focusing on my heart for a season. So those are some of the things.

SPEAKER_05 53:43

You mentioned journaling. Have you did you do that before, or is that something new just to get through that that was introduced to help you get through that time? I've I've been told it can be very helpful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

I I I there was a time in my life when I didn't journal, and there's a time in my life after I started, and I would say it's pretty different. Like it's really helped me to be able to to process and and even to write it out to the Lord. God, this happened, I hate this, I don't want this, and God, what do you say about that question? And then I just write down whatever comes to my mind. And then I I sort of filter, does that does that sound like God? Would God say that? Like we don't want to just believe whatever comes around, but I believe God speaks to us in our thoughts and in our hearts, I believe. And so often He'll share something with me that I would have never even thought about if I wasn't slowed down to listen enough and write down what what he brought to mind as I asked a question.

SPEAKER_05 54:42

Okay, so your your method of journaling is you're asking questions to God, and then what's coming to your mind, you're writing that down, and then you're looking in there for one of those things that are answers you feel are actually coming from God, not from wherever else. Yeah, yeah, which that's totally different than that's not what I thought of as journaling.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

Yeah, I mean, and also though I do write, and so and so said this, and I did this, like I do write that type of thing, but but to to get some clarity on it, I feel like God often like reframes it like in a different way, or or sp speaks to something or shows me something that I didn't know, you know, and often she meets me in that way.

SPEAKER_05 55:28

Is that a daily practice for you?

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Multiple times a week, but I wouldn't say daily. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:37

Do you set do you s consciously set time for it, or is it just a habit now that you know that at certain times I I need a journal right now?

SPEAKER_00 55:46

Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, I sort of have a a morning routine and with my coffee and spending time with the Lord, which which is like sit in my cozy chair, right, and and say, God, would you speak to me today? I need you today. And and then you s listen to like a worship song and be reminded of who God is, and then read something from the Bible, and just God speak to me. And if I feel like something pops off the page, like, whoa, thanks God, or ooh, God help me with that, like have a conversation with God about what what it is that I I that popped off the page to me in the Bible, and then and then after that, but this is where it gets a little tricky if I get distracted, but after that is what then I like to journal my prayers and my journaling time to listen to the Lord. Okay. Yeah. But now we have a daughter, and sometimes she'll come in and it doesn't always go as planned. Imagine that.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:46

But yeah, so did you feel like once you started on that journey, were you feeling that healing process happen pretty quickly, or did it take some time before you're like, okay, I'm on the right track, I'm getting back to the person that I want to be.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

Yeah, I think it took some time, probably longer than any of us would than I would like it to be. But and also it wasn't forever.

SPEAKER_05 57:12

Um my sabbatical was and I think the reason I asked that is a lot of times when people start something, if they don't see results right away, like, well, this isn't working, I need to do something different.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 57:22

And so I think having that idea that there's some things that we have to stick with them for a while before we start seeing the results off of it is an important thought to have in our minds. Yeah, you know, I have to think of that quite a bit because I've I want something done now. Hundred thing, right? Yeah. Well, let's let's see those results. How come how come this isn't changing immediately?

SPEAKER_00 57:43

Totally. And if like in that season, if I would have thought about it day to day, day by day, no, I'm not really I wouldn't have seen progress. But now when I look back, oh yeah, from here to here, I God healed my heart in that season. So looking back, you can see it when you're in that moment. You don't yeah, you don't see, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:01

But there's there's no real numerical measure. There's nothing it's not like if you're trying to run faster or hike longer or anything like that. You can see your progression.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

Yeah, it's all yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:14

When do you know you've made it? When you know you've made it, I don't think any of us ever make it, do we? Yeah, it's not always a work in progress.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:25

So as you're going on that journey, Mark's Mark's working. Do you feel like are you trying to impart some of the stuff you're learning to him? Because was he having some of the same struggles that he's out there maybe dealing with some of the same things you were, but he's going to a job every day. How are you trying to help him through that when he doesn't have the same time that you do with you on your sabbatical?

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Yeah, that's that's a really good question. I hope maybe part of it is as as a man, like he's physical and he was do he was working for a construction crew, and so he was physically moving, and so I feel like for him being doing something physical was good for his brain. His brain his heart at rest. And I don't know, through doing something, I wonder if he he's not one to sit in a chair for hours and hours and spend time with God, but as he's going about his life, I feel like he more. So I wonder if as he was doing his construction job, like that. I don't know, it gave some space.

SPEAKER_05 59:29

Um It does. I I know that helps me.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:33

Whether you have some physical activity or something like that, it's definitely very calming and yeah and helpful. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:41

Whether it's exercise or cutting fire, wh whatever kind of physical thing that Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

Most guys don't sit very well from my experience. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_05 59:52

I agree. Sam's nodding as well.

SPEAKER_00 59:56

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly. Which is fine. That's how God made man, and that's great. Like they're you know, happy to do something.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:04

So when did you just how did Haynes come into the picture out of all this?

Why Alaska And Why Haines

SPEAKER_00 1:00:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:12

So Is that right from Seattle coming up to Haynes?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh neither of us wanted to plant in Seattle. You know, Mark had an hour to mute in traffic. I mean, that wasn't the life that we wanted. Um so we're praying about where to go. And one day Mark was like, What about Alaska? And I was like, huh, maybe. He's like, really? He said, We survived Mongolia. He said, I've been bringing up Alaska for 10 years, she told me. I was like, What? I never heard him say Alaska, never once registered in my brain Alaska, not once, until that moment. And I was like, oh yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:53

But he but he said he'd been talking about it for 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:56

And that was the first time that it registered. Yeah, so my listening skills might have been a little bit I wasn't gonna say anything, Kim, but so then when I was like, huh, and he was like, hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

And then so we uh uh decided to take a trip to Fairbanks and go see Fairbanks. We heard Fairbanks is also cold, Mongolia was cold, so okay, maybe. So we went there and we came back and yeah, it was fine, but it wasn't didn't seem quite right. It was you know it's fine. We didn't know anyone in Alaska. Um but at that time I was working in a school, and at that school I ran into a gal named Amy Nash, who everyone knows and loves Amy, and lives in Haynes part-time, and um started talking with her and oh, my husband kind of interested in me, or we're interested in Alaska, and so we just took a trip to Fairbanks. She's like, Don't go to Fairbanks. We got a better spot for you. Yeah, so she started telling me about Haynes and we met. I I didn't know her at that point. We met, had coffee, and um she said, Why not Haynes? And so again, didn't know where Haynes was, went home, looked it up on the map, and started praying about it, and then sure enough, why not Haynes? And so thanks God directing us here. So we loaded everything in our we bought a small trailer and loaded it and drove on up.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:26

So when was that?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

Uh 2022.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:31

2022.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:33

What time of year?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:34

This time, July 5th, I think we arrived. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:38

So July 5th of 2022.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:41

We got four years in Haynes now.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:44

So did did you have a job lined up in Haynes? Did you have any idea what you're gonna do in Haynes, or was it like we're moving to Haynes, we're gonna figure it out when we get there?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

Yeah. Um, Mark had lined up a job at Zen Bathworks. Okay. So he worked there. I didn't have a job. I was hoping there would be something. And it turns out that I got a job at the school, which is great. Um, so I started working at the school and Mark was there. And yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:13

Was Haynes everything you thought it would be? How how is uh Amy's sales pitch?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

Was it accurate? Yeah, yeah. She said something about how God created the world and then he created Haynes, and he's like you in my head. Yeah. She's not wrong. She's not wrong. No. Um in fact she had just bought the house out on Lutec up there, up that way, so we lived in her house for that school year while she was back in school. So our first home in Haynes where we lived was was out Lutek. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tongue Cancer Diagnosis And Treatment

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

So yeah, we we moved here in July and I got my cancer diagnosis in February. So we were here in the new town.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:08

So you're eight eight months in.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:11

And find out you got cancer.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:13

What kind of cancer?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

Yeah, so I had cancer on my tongue. On the tongue. Yeah, which which I guess is really pretty rare for for young people, first of all. And then often smoking or drinking leads to that, and that hasn't been my experience. So where or how it came, we don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:33

So what was that? What was that like going through cancer treatment and everything? You're in a small town in Alaska that in February it's hard to get in and out of here for treatments. Your family is a couple thousand miles away. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um yeah, first of all, the the shock of it, right? Uh-huh. I'd had a s this sore in my mouth for actually months, and I got this sore in my mouth. It it came exactly the day when I got COVID for the first time. And so I guess there's a thing called COVID tongue, where just this lingering pain in your tongue. And so I just sort of assumed that it was COVID tongue.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:17

And I've never heard of COVID tongue before.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

I know, I know. I mean there was no other like explanation for it, right? And with it, yeah, it'll just go away eventually, don't worry about it. So now I I did some telehealth and yeah, yeah, I just kind of wait and see. Um, but finally I started working with uh Dr. Reeves here in town at the dental clinic, and yeah, he tried some different things also because we also were not exactly suspecting cancer, yeah. Because um anyway, so then he uh biopsied it and sent it away and um yeah, came back with the result of cancer and and and I think shock, right? Like I

SPEAKER_05 1:06:00

Of course, was not anticipating that or um you know yeah, especially when you're not in any of the groups that would normally end up with that type of cancer.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So uh I'm so thankful for Dr. Reeves. He one, he saved my life because he he could identify it, but also he has been so compassionate with me and just helpful for me and answers all my questions. And if he doesn't know, he sends it on. Like he's just been so helpful. So do I love being in a small town with a cancer diagnosis? No, but am I so thankful for the personal care and treatment of a small town community like Dr. Reeves and others has been so helpful.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:47

So there's there's always blessings in hard times, you find out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just because you're and who knows, if you were somewhere else, they might not have gone down the same road that he did. Totally, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

So still thankful, and then how long how long were treatments on that? So first I needed surgery, and then I needed radiation treatment after that. Okay. So yeah, so it was a process. And I remember the day after I was diagnosed, I worked at the school, so I had to go in and talk with Lily. And again, so thankful for her and for her experiences, and uh yeah, so I had to tell Lily. And the the news was like this was February, I'd be out for the rest of the year, you know, it was a big deal. And so I was like, all these emotions right inside and the fear and the anxiety, and she was just so helpful and so calm and like just just so helpful.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:49

She knew what your goals were. She knew.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

I knew that, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was really thankful for that and the support of the school and all the things. Um so I went and I had surgery in Seattle, and they were going to remove the tumor, and there was two options for removing the tumor. Option A was they would just remove a small part of it and then they would sew it up and you'd be good to go. Or option B was they would have to remove more of it, and then they would take skin from your thigh or somewhere else or your wrist and your body and skin graft it onto your tongue. So you so it was a big deal. Yeah. And then you'd have to go days without food or water because it had to totally dry and heal, and and when you take skin from your thigh, hair grows on your parts of your skin. So you could potentially have hair growing on your tongue. So all these options, and I I was pretty scared. And and I was deeply praying for option A, right? God, that it would be simple, they could just remove part of the tongue.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:57

Is that something they weren't gonna know until they got in there? So it's not like, hey, you get to choose. Yes. It's gonna be one of the others, and you'll wake up and we'll tell you which one.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

That's exactly like a four-hour surgery or nine-hour surgery, and and I didn't know. I just had to go to sleep. I didn't know. You're gonna find out when you woke up. Yeah. So so we have we, you know, we had supporters, and I I emailed all of our, you know, prayer support, and you know, please pray, you know, please, you know, ask God to direct the doctors and all the things. And yeah, so I went to sleep not knowing. And I honestly I didn't really know like how much of my tongue they would take. Would I be able to talk after that? Would I be able to eat? Like, I actually I didn't know. Um I'm uh yeah, thankful, I guess. I was didn't know all the consequences of the yeah. But I woke up and it was option A. It was just they took out what they needed to take out, and she just sewed it back up. Um so I was so thankful. I remember just being so happy in the hospital when I'd heard that. And yeah, so uh that that was it was good. My my tongue now that I mean they took out a tongue, so it's kind of lopsided. And so I and I talk with a small lisp and I have dry mouth and some things, but I didn't talk, so I'm super thankful.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:18

You can talk, you're alive.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:21

You can still eat food.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:23

Yes, yeah, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:24

How how long did you have to do radiation treatment for?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:27

So then um they were hoping they would just do the surgery and I'd be done, but then my margins weren't quite clear. So then I again had that a little bummer. Like then I had to do six weeks of radiation. Okay. So I lived in in Juneau and did it in Juneau there. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:47

And you've been cancer free since then?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:51

Is this anything that there's a is there a lingering worry that this might come back still?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:57

Yeah, there's always that. So I I still get checked every three months or so, do a visual check, and then I do a CT scan every year. And my next one is coming up actually. And so, yeah, there's something called scan xiety where you you know every year you've got to check and praying that you get the good results again. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And even when everything feels fine, seems fine, there's this still this you know anxiety that busts up. But

Adoption, Family, And A New Start

SPEAKER_00 1:11:29

yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:29

And then you then you mentioned you guys have recently adopted a daughter. Where is she from?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:36

Uh originally from Little Diamond.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

You know where that is? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:42

Which is so cool. Out next to Russia.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:45

It's like, what is it, 30 miles between Little Diamond and Diamond? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:50

So so cool. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:52

Wow. And how old is she?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

She's 16 now.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:56

She's 16.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:57

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:59

And was this kind of guided by your experience in Mongolia? Is that kind of leading to this?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:13

Because a lot of people when they're adopting, they're adopting newborns or younger kids to adopt a teenager is a different story.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:20

You guys have been successful at that once.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:23

Yeah, yeah. Uh actually, when I lived in northern Minnesota, I remember one very specific day, I was in my kitchen listening to the radio at that time. Steve Curtis Chapman came on the radio and talked about adoption and how it was God's heart to God adopt us into his family, right? And how it's God's heart for adoption. So ever since that moment, something struck my heart, like, I think someday I want to adopt. And that was I was single, I mean, that was twenty-some years ago. Um, so but it had been in my heart. And and and then when Mark and I um were married and we haven't had any of our own biological kids, and it's been in our hearts. And so I think even part of coming to Alaska was was desire to pursue that foster care and flash adoption if if that was needed. So Yeah. And one kind of cool thing, our so when we were in Mongolia, I had this one student, her name was Naya, and I always thought, God, if I get pregnant someday, I would love to name our first daughter Naya. And then we never got permit, and that never happened. But here we are in Alaska, and we have a foster daughter, her name is Naya. Yeah, no, and then and then we adopted her, and I didn't want to like say that until it's like official and it's done because you know Isn't that crazy how you put how you say things out of the out of the universe? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:53

And a lot of times God answers that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:56

Yeah, it's just like a cool, like, I see you, I know you, you know, and that's yeah, appreciates what you've done. It just kind of wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:06

Dang. That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:09

Yeah. Um, so our our daughter Nyanette, she knew that I was gonna talk to you today, and I said, Well, should I mention that you're single to everyone? I'm just gonna be enough to 16.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:24

All right, 16, pain's Alaska.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:26

Yeah, yeah, just throwing it out there.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:28

But but she's gotta go through mom and dad. 100%. Or he's gotta go through mom and dad.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:32

100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:33

So are we gonna do this that he's gonna have to meet mom and dad before nine? Perhaps I mean it seems to work well for you and Mark. Is this is not that you've gotta go through some of the same things. Yeah, you gotta go through mom and dad first.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:50

Not sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:53

Well, yeah. You can have that discussion with her, get all the protocol down here to the enjoying Haynes.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:03

Yeah, I think she's thankful to be here.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:05

Yeah, it's a big change from Little Diamond to Haynes.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:08

Still Alaska and everything, but still that's a big yeah, it's a a bit of a culture shock there.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:13

Yep, yep. And then after Little Diamond, she spent quite a bit of time in Anchorage, so kind of Anchorage.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:18

Again, a big culture shock in Anchorage to Haynes. It's a lot different.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:22

Yeah, yep, yep. So I'm so thankful for our school here, small school. They I feel like they know and love each of our students as individuals, and so I feel like they do a great job of of loving students and loving Naya where she is and helping her. And I'm really thankful for that.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:38

Well, that's awesome. Yeah, I think it's cool that you guys are doing that too.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:43

I've got friends in different places that have adopted kids and just seeing that the way that they've blended, either blended them into their family or just the way they take care of them. It's it's it's and my dad was kind of adopted, you know, it wasn't official, but his after his mom had passed, um, when he was really young, his his dad kind of left the boys a lot of times to fend for themselves. It was a couple brothers, and they're the lady that kind of took care of the house for him that took my dad in and took care of him and gave him that stable base and makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:20

Huge difference.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:21

And I know there's different different people that stayed at our house for a year or three years, or just that they were looking for a place and they asked my dad, hey, can I can I come and stay there for a while? And he's like, Yep. And so I my sister and I kind of grew up with that, with these different people living in our house. Yeah. And it is it it's amazing the kind of influence you can have on somebody in a short period of time.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:47

Totally, yeah, yeah. And kind of that idea of like blessed to be a blessing, right? Like your dad experienced it and then he passed it on.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:54

Pass that on to somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

Yeah, yeah.

Home Bible Study And Church Unity

SPEAKER_05 1:16:59

So now I've I've heard that you're looking at your experimenting, you're looking at, or how do we describe this about starting a uh a new church in Haynes? Are you are you are you going around like Martin Luther and attacking your things on the church door, or do you what's the what is your calling, or what's your rationale behind that?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:27

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're that's a good question. We're uh our our biggest heart is actually to to to unify the body of Christ and Haynes, to to to we as as Christians in Haynes, we want to to grow in in loving each other and loving the world, loving God. Um so that's our biggest heart is actually unity in the body and and want to serve the the Christian Christian body and Haynes. And I think one thing we've recognized is there's there's people that for whatever reason have maybe they've been in a church or hurt by a church, but they're no longer at a church, and they're sort of here, here, here, and like we want to care for them and collect them and and love them, and and so so yeah, we just started uh a Bible study in our home of just gathering. We started with a couple and then another couple found out and just kind of went from there. Um yeah, just with the idea of of loving God and loving people. And yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:29

So is that has that come from just a desire to bring more people? Was there dispat dissatisfaction, or did you feel there's something lacking in in other worship services and Haynes?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:42

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:46

Not to put you on the spot. I know, right? You don't have to call it, it's not like you call anybody out. I have frustrations.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:55

I've you know, it's over the over the years just trying to figure out. And I think the hardest thing for me is people picking different verses, but skipping the ones that might point a finger back at what they're doing. Um and a lot of judgment and expectations on and I don't know, I've I I there's a lot of times I really struggle being in church, not feeling comfortable for whatever reason, yeah, but still trying to find that personal connection with God, yeah, and trying to figure out where that road is leading. It's it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:46

It is really, really hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

Right? And and to separate out like, what does God say about me? What does God say about Doug? Like, what who's God say I am? And what like hearing from God in that, right? We're we're hurt by other Christians, and and then and then we go to church, it's it's hard to hear from God, and and yet that's what we desperately need, right? Is is to commune with with the living God, and and that's the challenge.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:14

And see, I'm I'm I'm so blown away by your story, and the part of it is that each time that you came to a crossroads, you were praying and looking for God to guide you. And I've I've always been amazed at the people that felt God was guiding them that way. Because I for the longest time I never really felt that in the moment. Now I can look back and I was like, okay, I can see I can see the different places where he was nudging me in one direction or another. But having that connection that it seems like closer connection, it seems like you have that you're like, yeah, no, this is where I'm I don't know if it's just my own personal self-doubt or not knowing. Seems like there's all the what I what I'll pray about sometimes, it seems like there's like 30 different things that are thrown at me. Okay, well, I'm not sure which one of these 30 I'm really supposed to do, or or three or two sometimes. I mean it's like I they all seem like they're things that he would tell me to do, but uh how do you discern which is the road that you're supposed to go down?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:28

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Discerning God’s Voice Amid Noise

SPEAKER_02 1:21:29

That's a question for you.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:30

How am I supposed to I how do you just say that when because you're saying that one of the things when you're journaling is you're writing down this question to God and you've got all these things that you write down, how is it that you figure out which of those that all those things that come to your mind are the ones that are coming from him?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really good question. One few things. One, I feel like our our goal, my goal as a Christian is to to grow in knowing and loving God and hearing his voice. And so the more we know him and know his heart and know his character and know who he is, kind of like you knew your dad. You kind of knew what your dad might say into this scenario, right? Like if you you know, if you talk to dad about this, dad's probably gonna so you knew your dad's heart, right? And in the same way, it's a process of knowing God's heart. And God, what would your heart want in in this scenario or in this moment, you know? And and in some of our big life decisions, should we move here, should we move there? Often I felt like God would ask me back, like, what's your greatest desire? You know, what what do you desire? And with one of my moves, somewhere it was like, God, I want to be a part of a healthy team and I want to do like work in ministry that's strategic. And so those are my greatest desires. And so, okay, well, that lined up with this decision. And so part of it, I think God works through our greatest desires. Why are those desires in us? I think because He He puts them in us, you know. When we can sort of parse out, you know, my own flesh, and oh, I want that, or oh, I want to make one here, you know, like the flesh side of things, if we can sort of be like, but this is who you maybe be, this is what I desire to do, you know. So I don't know an answer to your question other than it's like knowing the heart of a father and a father that leads us and and cares for us and cares for you and cares, wants what's good for us, you know. The reason I wanna ask God about every decision is he's a bajillion times wiser than me, right? He knows all, and and I want to follow his steps, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:46

So when you talk about getting to know God better, I'm assuming you're talking about your Bible study. What what does your Bible study look like? Do you have you some people read the Bible like from front to back, some people are just looking at certain verses. Do you have do you have like an app that you follow? Do you have just I want to I want to look at Luke this month, or I want to look at John next month? What what does your Bible study look like?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:16

Yeah, I think it's important to kind of to know to know God's word in some ways enough to know like what which type of genre is it that you're reading? Are you reading poetry right now? Then poetry is poetry and God uses that in a certain way. Are you reading a historical that's a certain are you are you reading, hey, this is a good way to live and this is not but it can get mixed up if we read poetry and we think it literally means do da da da da da. So you want to grow in knowing some kind of context about what you're reading. With all of that said, for me, like it's usually choosing a book of the Bible, like for example, the book of Mark I've been reading these days, and and opening Mark and starting at the beginning, and and before opening it, like God, what do you want to speak to me through this word? And and reading it until I feel like something does jump off the page about something, and um and then talking to God about whatever that thing is, and and then that's enough for that day. Like I feel like I've heard from God that day, whether it's an encouragement, whether it's uh hey, an exhortment, like hey, watch out, like something or or encourage like promise, like something, and then receive that for today. And and then yeah. So I feel like that's a little bit about what my time in the Word looks like, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:50

And that's a daily thing for you, or most days?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I need it every day, right? Like otherwise I get so distracted by oh, my dog's doing this, or my daughter this, or you know, like all the other things when actually God's like, oh, I'm here, like look to me, you know, like I don't want to lose sight of the main things which happens every day, every moment, you know, and so yes, to turn my eyes back to God, uh yeah, it's been helpful.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:21

And that's and that's an individual thing that you do by yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:24

Yeah. I mean happy actually.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:27

Do you have other times where it's with your family? Where it's just is that an addition? Is that just or is that like with the weekly Bible study you're having at clas at your house where you have more people come over?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Differing seasons. When we were in Mongolia, we we did Bible study as a or Bible reading as a family. In this season where we're at, we haven't necessarily done it as a family per se. Um but one of Mark and I's values is meeting with with others, like twos and threes, and like, hey, let's let's union and like let's just read it together and and learn together, um, that sort of thing. Because we grow better together, right? Like no one no one knows all the things, but together you can hear from God, you can hear from God, together we grow. So I think all of it is important.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:23

Where where where do you see this journey leading you?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:27

I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:30

So you are you looking to just continue with like a Bible study or house? Are you looking to find a meeting place where you can have more people? Because I earlier you were talking about when you were going the reason you went into the youth ministries, you didn't really want to be a pastor, but maybe now you're being led down a road closer to being a pastor.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:53

I know, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:27:54

Is it am I sensing that correctly? That it's maybe maybe God's like, well, in that season. That's what you need to do, but that was all in preparation for for now.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:08

Maybe.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:11

Does that scare you a little bit that maybe that's what he's preparing you for? Or are you like, hey, if that's what you want, let's let's go. Or a little of both. Yeah, probably a little bit of both.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I think it's kind of God, here we are. God, we're willing. God, we want to grow together with others who who want to grow more in their relationship with you. Like that's what we want. Um, how to do that, what that looks like. Um I think we don't know clearly. This summer we're sort of taking a pause for meeting in our house, so we haven't been meeting for a few weeks. Um But yeah, we're we're sort of open and wanting to discern what God wants.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:56

So if if somebody is listening to this in Haynes and it's like, I'd like to give that a shot. They just stop and ask Mark at the post office, or if they see you in the street and say, hey, when's this happening? Is that the best way? And are you open for are you open to more people joining in that manner? Are you handpicking who you want to come? I guess I don't want to have a whole bunch, I don't know. I I'm not saying I have a whole lot of influence, but I don't want a bunch of people showing up your door like, hey, we heard we could come over. What what is your vision for this right now? How do you think God is planning this going forward for you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:37

We are so open and happy. I mean, the more people that that want to to grow in their relationship with God, we want them join, you know, come and join us or join any church. Just come, right? We would be so happy to welcome anyone. Um yeah, and also welcome them to what? Well, relationship, no matter anyone community, like I'm so happy. We're Mark and I are so happy for relationship. You want to learn more about God, like we'll do it with you. We want to grow with you, like let's open the Bible together. You know, we're open for that. Um if we have a small group that starts to gather again, we're so open to anyone and everyone coming. The beauty of a home is yeah, it is smaller, and we can talk about, oh, this and this happened in your week, and oh man, let's pray for that. And we can do life together in a special way. And I think that's that's a gift of of a smaller um gathering. Um so, but whether we do that Sunday morning and call it church, or whether we have a fellowship time on Sunday evenings and anyone and everyone is welcome, like either way.

unknown 1:30:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:46

You can wait and see where it Yeah where it turns into.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:49

Yeah, yeah, we don't know, yeah. Will you come if we have something?

SPEAKER_05 1:30:54

Possibly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:56

Yeah. Yeah. Uh after October because I work on Sundays right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:04

How about Sunday evenings? Are you more Sunday evenings?

SPEAKER_05 1:31:06

I'm usually free.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:08

So that that's what we're if if you're doing something, let me know.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:13

And uh yeah, I could be Yeah, yeah, really.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:17

I think there's a thing, like, we're often like you were talking about, like, in the church and kind of hurt by other Christians or other people not not their life's not matching, right? Always, or what not living it out, or you know, we're hurt by people. But then I think we're also healed by people. You know, as we get to do relationship and community in a in a healthy way, that also can bring healing to some of those parts in our heart where we're hurt and it's hard to trust people. But it but also when we can have healthy relationships, I feel like it can help us to learn to trust again. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:52

Yeah, and it and it's I don't want this to sound like a a that I'm knocking on the church, it's it's because there's been some great relationships that have been formed and nurtured, and some of the kindest, most loving people I know and have in my life are at church on Sunday. It's just over the years there's been things that have happened that it's there's there's times that I feel right at home and at peace at church, and there's other times that I walk in and I've just got so much anxiety and fear. I don't know, I don't know if fear is the right word, but just just not feeling like I'm I'm belonging at that moment. And and it's hard when you don't know which feeling you're gonna get when you walk until you walk in the door. So it's easier to just not go when you don't, and it and it's been hard for me to comprehend why that's happening. Um, I've got some ideas, I'm not gonna share them, but I've got but it's yeah, it's it's tough.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:10

Because I I I think of church as a place that's it's God's house. And God was this kind, welcoming, yeah, non-judgmental, you know, he sent his son to die for our sins. That's like, hey, and Jesus was hanging out with the sinners, you know, he's pardoned, that's where he's with. And then sometimes I just I go into church and it's like, man, I I don't there's like I said, there's days that I feel that, yeah, and there's days that I don't.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:38

And that's hard for me to comprehend mentally why there's such a distinct difference from time to time. I I that's something I I just don't understand. And nobody's been able to explain it to me. Maybe it's just me being confused, and I I don't know. But I'm I'm wondering if if there's others that are feeling that same way, totally. Is that why are there other people that don't go to church as well that want to hear that message, that want to want to hear about them being saved, about all the things that God's done in our lives and it's guiding us and all these amazing blessings, but for similar reasons to mine, not getting that message.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:33

Yeah, totally. I think we have a community full of people just like that. Would we love to gather together, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:34:42

And so that's why I'm I'm appreciative of what you guys are you and Mark are doing, trying to bridge that gap and figure out I don't know if you're gonna bridge it to everybody, but even two people. Yeah. If you reach two people and give them a better understanding, yeah, that's a win in my book.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:00

You know, it's it doesn't have to be huge numbers, just a little bit at a time.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:03

Totally. And I think what we're all longing for is to be able to be authentic, right? Like to come on a whenever you gather, man, I blew it this week. Man, I yelled at my kids and I was a jerk. Like, I blew it this week. And someone's like, Yeah, me too. And then talk together and even pray to get like uh ability to to have to be real versus like get it all together so we can go to this gathering of Christians, right? But come as we are and share as we are, you know, like such freedom that that would bring. And and that's what we long for in the family of God to be free. Come as you are and bring your everything.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:41

And I I think that's missing a lot in church, but also in society. Yeah. With social media, everybody we always put our best self out there. That all the good things that are happening. Not many people share the struggles and the the problems. There are a lot of those on every single day.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:02

And when you're looking at everybody when you're scrolling through, you know, the doom scroll, it's like, okay, an hour went by me looking about how awesome everybody else is. Perfect, perfect. You're like, oh man, I suck. Horrible. And you know, the more you go, the worse you feel.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:17

Very good.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:18

Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:19

Totally.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:19

It's just like, oh my, no wonder there's so many people depressed.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:23

That's what we're trying to compare ourselves with. And I think some of that is with church too, because they talk a lot of people present themselves as perfect or near perfect. And then those of us, I know I struggle. And then when you try, it's like, oh man, I don't live up to that. I don't live up to that.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:44

Yeah.

unknown 1:36:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:45

So maybe it is just being more honest and vulnerable with who we are would be a good step forward.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:51

It would help, right? And it often takes someone to go first, you know, like is this person shares or is I shared, you share it. Like, yeah, like but but but creating an environment to do that. And I think I wonder what you're saying. Like in churches, we maybe haven't always it's not an environment for me to share about the way I messed up this week, right? It's how's the weather? Okay, good fishing, okay, bye-bye. Right? It's not more oftentimes at a gathering. But could it be, you know? And I think that's our heart is we want more.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:22

I think it I think it could be. I I usually get there like five minutes before the service starts. And I'm one of the first people out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:32

So part of that's on me. Yeah, sure. I I I'll take full responsibility for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:36

Sure, sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:38

But in in in in the and a lot of the reason for that is some of my apprehensions about that, and then things that people have said to me before a service.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:49

Really?

SPEAKER_05 1:37:49

Yeah. Just comments that are kind of innocuous or whatever, but at the time hit me in a way that was like, oh man. Oh, wow. And so try I think that's just my natural reaction to just not have to deal with those is just not give them an opportunity. They're not gonna come over when the pastor's thinking over singing a handle. Yeah, don't give them the opportunity, just like peace out.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and there isn't me.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:19

But but maybe that's on me too for not letting my anxiety not allow me the opportunity because the next person that was gonna come to talk to me might have been just this amazing connection with a great story to tell. And so then I'm I'm I'm missing out on that because of my own personal issues and anxieties.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:42

Huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:44

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:45

That's a lot of awareness going on there.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:48

I might have awareness, but I haven't figured anything out yet. I'm trying to figure out what to do with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:53

Yeah. Well, I think I know it's not on everybody.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:56

It's I'm my own personal issues are as much to do with it as anything else. It's not the church, it's not the people in the church. It's my own understanding of who I am, what I'm looking for. I have a lot of insecurities. I have I have a lot of things that I'm ashamed about, things in the past. And you know, those are when you go into church with insecurities and shame, that's that can be tough. And we we all have that.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:24

Yeah, and that's the part, right? Like I think.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:27

But people seem to cover it up when you're in church, they seem to cover it over really well. Yeah, that's the big point. And I'm like, holy cow, how does these people are amazing? They don't have they don't have any of these things.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:38

But but if we had the opportunity to actually talk to them, like maybe they would share it. Like they also have, you know, whatever. But it it does take some trust development, right, to to be able to go deeper, which takes time, which takes commitment, which takes, you know. I think one thing we're experiencing in Alaska is kind of this independent kind of Alaskan mindset, you know, I'll kind of come when I want, do what I want, go when I want. Like, so that is a a hurdle, you know, even in our group, like they'll come this day, but not this day, and that you know, like if we're getting this thing together, we gotta come together, you know. And so there's an element of of we have to make a choice that we want it enough, right? Or we're we're willing, for your sake, you're willing enough to to give it a try, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:29

Yeah, but what what you're saying too is there has to be some commitment to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:34

Yeah. The half in, half out.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:36

Yeah, makes it hard.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:37

Makes it really hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:39

And I think that's why I'm trying to figure out where because me going to church on occasion, I'm half in and I'm half out.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:47

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:48

Like how where do I find that connection? Maybe it isn't in church, but I'm not doing a lot outside of church to foster that connection.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:58

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:59

So I I've I've got to find my own personal belief because I I want to have that stronger relationship, yeah. That personal relationship, because I've I've seen the blessings in the past. Um, and I need to figure out for me how to foster that going forward. What's that look like? Like I find something to jump in with both feet.

unknown 1:41:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:27

So I think you're ready. Well, I don't know. I I think I am.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:33

But I'm also afraid that if you know, if I jump in, that somebody drained the pool and I'm gonna crash on the cement floor. Am I jumping in the right pool? That's a worry.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:48

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:50

Because I've usually found, like I said, I'm I admire you because in the way that you're that's kind of leading you, and and maybe it has, maybe in a subconscious way that I'm actually I am actually following the path that he's put me where I am today, and I'm very happy with that. And I can look back and see that. But I never felt that I was being I felt like I was throwing darts at the dartboard at the time. I didn't really feel like I was being guided. And that just could be my own stupidity thinking I'm throwing darts, and it's actually like, no, I guided that dart to that spot on the dartboard. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:31

Yeah. And would you want to be guided, right? If you if you could have a good, good heavenly father to guide you, like are you wanting that? Do you want that?

SPEAKER_05 1:42:42

Well, I think where he's got me so far, I'm happy with it. I could I could I mean I I like to think that I'm a fairly smart guy and I can get where I want to go, but I'd yeah, I can I can we can all use some guidance. Totally. Especially somebody smarter than me.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:01

Totally.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:02

And that doesn't take much. And I know he's infinitely smarter than me, and having that guidance, absolutely I'd want that.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:11

But trying to figure out what words that are coming through my head are from him, and which ones are just there to confuse me.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:22

Mm-hmm. I think part of that then will be knowing the father's heart, right? Because we know that the Bible says we also have an accuser, right? Like Satan's called the accuser of people. And so his whole job is to to lie about you, right? You're stupid, you're dumb, you're like that's his whole job is to lie and to deceive us. And so when those thoughts come in our head, those kind of thoughts, like we can know that that's not God, that's not God's heart, that's not what God says about you. You're dumb, you're not good enough, you're all the lies. Like, you know, so so knowing the heart of father, I think is is helpful for us too.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:03

Nobody said that that way before. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I've never heard anybody discern that in that way. Yeah, because a lot of the words I use are not the kind ones. Referring to myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:22

Uh-huh. And then we would know that that's not God's heart for you, right? Like what God calls you is his son, his beloved, he rejoices over you, sings over you, right? He's preparing a place for you. He's that's what he says for you. He's got good works for you to do now. Those are the things that God says. Those are what's true. And there's an enemy who doesn't want you to live in that identity and that truth. He wants to not you have never let us, you know, like take away what God is trying to do in your life, the good plans that God has for you. And so, yeah, there's voices, but we want to know the father's heart, which is true. Thank you for that. Yeah. Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:14

I appreciate your vulnerability in willing to share.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:19

That's we want more of that, right? In in our lives.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:24

Well sometimes I wonder. Yes, but it comes at a price.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:34

Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:36

It's it's not the easiest. And these kinds of conversations, like a few weeks ago when we interviewed Shannon, it was I I absolutely loved it. It was a beautiful time with her. It took me three days to recover.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:55

Just the emotional energy from those two hours.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:01

It was like it was yeah, it was about three days.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:04

Really?

SPEAKER_05 1:46:04

Just I was just wore out after that.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:08

Uh-huh. What sort of things were spinning in your brain?

SPEAKER_05 1:46:12

I I don't know, it was just things that were spinning in my brain. I think it was just the emotional content that we were talking about. We're talking about Greek. We're talking about my dad passed, and we're talking about trauma. And uh yeah, and when you talk about that stuff in a in an open, vulnerable way. At least for me, man, that that takes a ton out of me. That takes a lot out of me. Sure. Yeah, and it was and then not really sleeping for a couple nights afterwards because all those same thoughts are going through your three days.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:53

Wow. Sounds like grieving some of the work every yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:57

It was.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:57

Yeah, it's work in a sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:02

And that's why I have so much respect for her and the people that do those jobs that they're they're helping people through that grieving process all the time. I'm like, man, I I talk about it a little bit and I'm just beaten. They have that much strength to deal with that on a daily basis. Yeah. Holy cow. It's a gift. Oh that is a gift.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:25

Amazing people.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:27

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:28

So true.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:29

Good to have those angels amongst us.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:31

Yeah, right. So this work that you're doing here matters, huh? You're talking with people, having real conversations with people, and it matters, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:41

It matters to me. I hope it matters to other people.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:44

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:46

No, even having a conversation like that that you know drained me for three days, it also fuels me.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:56

Having this conversation with you and getting to know you much better. I mean, I've known who you were. We've never really had a conversation until tonight. This is the first time I talked to you on the phone for like two minutes asking if you wanted to be on here. That was pretty much our only conversation before tonight. But to get to have to connect with you and learn about you, um, no, this this kind of thing just fuels me. I I never would have guessed it. Most things I do drain me more than fuel me. But this one's different. This is different. This is different. This gives me uh I've I had a couple friends that are like, oh, you're still doing that? I figured you would have given up by now. And I was like, yeah, it surprises me too that I haven't given up. But it is, it's just each person I've had the chance to talk to that first of all, their willingness to come and sit with me and just share their stories. And a lot of them, or all of them, have been very moving to me. And the their openness and willing to share, uh, yeah, that that's powerful.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:05

Powerful. Our stories are powerful.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:07

Our stories are powerful.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:09

And to be able to try and provide a platform to tell a few of them uh means a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:15

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thanks for doing what you did.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:19

Well, I appreciate you joining us and sharing your story.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:22

But we're not done yet. Oh, we're not, oh we're not done yet. It sounds like we're getting to the end, but I still have more, I still have a few more questions. We might be close. We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:30

Yeah. Take your time.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:31

What what what what are we missing in the Kim Leduc story? What did we what did we just kind of brush over and didn't talk about that?

SPEAKER_00 1:49:43

This is why you're also doing your job, is you're really good at questions. Good question.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:53

Uh Yeah,

Advice For Teens And What’s Next

SPEAKER_02 1:50:01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:01

How about how about this? Naya's watching this. What is some what is some a message that you hope she gets out of watching this?

SPEAKER_02 1:50:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:14

Um her and other and other young kids out there that you know they're embarking, they're in their mid-teens, they've got their whole life in front of them. You look back at the way your life progressed from when you were that age. What's some ad uh some advice to them or something that you hope they take out of listening to your story that they can apply to theirs?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:40

Uh I think main thing is that we have a God that loves us and created us and calls us for purposes. And so you, we are created on purpose for a purpose. And I know in our life we can walk in and out of knowing that or even believing that, and that's okay. That's still who God is. God is a God of love and purpose. And so yeah, I want all of us to to to grow and walk in those purposes he has for us, which which can only come though from deeply knowing him, right? Having a relationship with him. Religion happens when we try to go and do a bunch of good stuff without God, but with God is is his his desire, right? And so, yeah, that's my encouragement is that he loves us, he's called us.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:32

Where do you see yourself in ten years?

SPEAKER_02 1:51:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:39

You bounced around a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:41

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:42

Haynes might not be your final destination.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:44

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:45

Do you do you see a calling that's going to take you somewhere else?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:49

See an openness or a willingness. Open hands. God lead us. We're we're so happy here in Haynes. We're thankful to be here. God's provided a home for us, and you know, we're thankful to be where we are. We we love being here. And also here we are, God. And so if He directs us, um we're willing. Um you're right, we've moved around a lot, and I actually hate moving. I don't want to. So you know I don't know anybody that likes moving.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:20

Right?

SPEAKER_05 1:52:20

Yeah. So you'd think if you do it a little bit more. Especially Minnesota to Mongolia.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:26

Back to Minnesota to Alaska. Those aren't some those aren't short trips.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How many times I've fit my life in two suitcases, yes. Uh-huh. Um, but yeah, want to be to be open and willing. And um, I I've recently s started studying life coaching, actually. And so learning about being a life coach and um, yeah, seeing where God might take me with that. And and the whole goal of that would be just to love and support people better. And I'm even learning what a life coach is, because I didn't actually know, but but it's all about like listening well and asking people good questions, which is what you do, and then and people can solve their own problems actually, or their own scenarios, but but our job is to listen and ask questions and and encourage them along the way. So I'm growing in the process of that to become a lot of people.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:20

Is that an online class you're taking then?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:22

Yeah, it's a year-long uh online program.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:25

Okay. Yeah, so yeah. Cool. Look forward to seeing how that hat turns out.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:30

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, thankful to learn something new.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:34

It sounds like you're already on that path. It just is just a more formal training to continue what you're already doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:39

Yeah, learn so yeah, I want some more skills, right? To do it well and to be able to serve people you know well, and so that's yeah, it's fun to learn. Also, when you get older my age, like I knew new something, right, to to learn about.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:53

So yeah. Nothing wrong with continuing learning.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:57

I enjoy that as well, trying to find something new to Yeah. Sam Sam's trying to teach me technology stuff. I think he's probably thinking it'd be go it'd be easier to go back to school and teach kids than trying to teach me. I mean well, thank you for joining us, Kim. I appreciate you sharing your story and I I I loved hearing it. And uh yeah, you're you're a very inspirational person. And uh I I yeah, no, it's been been awesome to get to know you better in this this last little bit as we've been talking and hope to have conversations with you in the future as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:40

Yeah, I hope for lots more. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.