How AI Helps You Admit What You Don't Know and Build Trust Doing It

What if the fastest way to build trust…with mentors, partners, and people five rungs above you… is to admit exactly what you don't know? 

This episode tackles the trust multipliers hiding inside your blind spots. 

Joe Downs opens with a Simon Sinek quote that stopped him cold: when we admit what we don't know, it increases the chance that someone who does know will offer to help. 

Joe and Peter Swain break down how AI workflows can turn that principle into a repeatable system, naming your gaps, building a worthy ask, and crafting the outreach message that actually gets a yes. 

If you're a side hustler or ambitious professional who knows vulnerability is powerful but has no idea how to make it useful, this episode hands you the tools.

Listen For

4:59 What was the 12-word Simon Sinek sentence that got 6,000 reactions and stopped Joe cold?

9:36 How can you use AI as a thought partner to finally name the fuzzy knowledge gap you can't quite put your finger on?

15:41 What three-step AI workflow takes you from "I don't know what I'm missing" to a specific, compelling ask?

29:57 What should a perfectly framed outreach message to someone five rungs above you actually look like?

40:49 How can AI help you get out of your own way when embarrassment is the real thing stopping you from asking?

Links Mentioned

Peter's Free AI Business Audit | Storagemoguls.ai 

Email the “Idiots” Joe and Peter

idiots@successfulidiots.com 

Joe Downs

Website | LinkedIn | YouTube | Email Joe:joe@belroseam.com 

Peter Swain

Website | Email | LinkedIn | X

Transcript

Emily Page (00:05):
We have spent decades treating the confidence gap as a personal problem. The two women who named it never thought it was.

Doug Downs (00:16):
In 1978, two psychologists at Georgia State University published a paper that named something millions of people had felt but never had any words for. Pauline Clance and Suzanne Imes called it the imposter phenomenon. They studied over 150 high achieving women and found that despite every credential, every promotion, every piece of evidence that they belonged, these women were convinced they were frauds, that at any moment someone would find them out. What made Clance and Imes uniquely qualified to write the paper was that they had lived it themselves. Clance grew up in Appalachia, the youngest of six, and made it into graduate school in a world that had not been built for women like her. She would finish an exam and be certain she had failed. She kept her doubts to herself because her friends were tired of hearing them. When she began teaching and saw the same feeling in her students, she and Imes went looking for a name for it.

(01:13):
 They found it everywhere they looked. And while they were doing that research, sitting inside a male centred academic environment that openly questioned whether women deserved tenure, they experienced it too. The women who named the feeling were still being made to feel it by the room. They called it a phenomenon. They were careful about that word, not a disorder, not a syndrome, an experience, something the environment produces. But the world took their paper and changed one word and called it a syndrome instead, locating the problem firmly inside the person. Well, nearly half a century later, the research has caught up to what Clance and Imes actually meant. It doesn't belong to women. It doesn't belong to any one group. It shows up wherever a person walks into a room that wasn't built for them. Today on Stories and Strategies, the confidence gap is not something wrong with you.

(02:11):
 It's something wrong with the room.

(02:27):
 My name is Doug Downs.

Farzana Baduel (02:28):
And my name is Farzana Baduel. Our guest this week is, drum roll, Advita Patel, joining today from Manchester. Hi, Advita.

Advita Patel (02:39):
Hello. How are you doing? Firstly, apologies if you can hear the torrential rainfall, but those folks who are used to the Mancunian weather know this is standard in the UK. Well, standard in Manchester.

Farzana Baduel (02:53):
Oh gosh. Well, thank you for tuning in and we can't hear the rain as much. Good. So now, Advita, a little bit about you. You are the founder of Comms Rebel, a communications consultancy built on the belief that confident cultures don't just happen by accident. And you're the first South Asian woman to serve as president of the Chartered Institute of Public Relations. You have spent six years researching what separates leaders who own the room from those who shrink inside it.

Doug Downs (03:26):
Awesome to have you, Advita. I can’t hear the rain, but you've painted a picture for me about Manchester. So Advita, a lot of PR professionals, and I actually think this happens to everyone in every profession, every walk of life, describe what they feel in certain rooms as imposter syndrome. Yeah. Is that just how some of us are, that some of us are more prone to imposter syndrome, or are there other dynamics at play here?

Advita Patel (03:56):
Such a good question. And I have to be very honest with both of you and the folks who are listening. I was actually one of those individuals who described everything as a bit of imposter syndrome. And after doing the research I've done in confidence and self doubt and self esteem, I strongly believe that we've turned it into a bit of a catch all explanation for every moment that we feel around self doubt. And I think in doing that, we've made it into a bit of a personal problem. When actually, in my research and studies that I've done, most of the imposter feelings we experience are often structural. So when you're walking into a room and you feel that you don't belong in that room, my big thing to anyone that I work with, and the first question I will ask is, does the room reflect you?

(04:47):
 Now, feeling like an imposter in a new job, in a new project, is common. Continuing to feel like an imposter, feeling like a fraud, is not as common. And everyone does experience it. I know initially it was associated with women, but it is something that everyone does experience. And the reason more women speak about it is because often the room doesn't reflect them.

Farzana Baduel (05:10):
That's so interesting. So it's not just an internal issue that people are internalising. It starts off with the external environment. Do you think organisations are aware of that? And do you think even people who feel that they're struggling with imposter syndrome are aware of that?

Advita Patel (05:30):
No. No. No, not at all. No. No one's aware. It's so interesting, which is why I focus so much energy on confident workplaces. Confidence is something that a lot of folks do believe is a personal issue, and it's something that you either have or you don't have. That's a conversation that I often have with folks. And it's not. Confidence is a skill. It's a skill like anything else that you would learn to do. Nobody is born confident. There are moments when the environment will help you be more confident. Of course it will. Your privileges will help you be more confident, your power to an extent, but generally it is a skill that you can build. And I do think a lot of folks don't recognise it as a skill. And we talk a lot around feeling like a fraud or feeling like we don't belong.

(06:15):
 And a lot of leaders often will say to me when I'm brought in to work with some of these folks, “Oh, she's not confident enough to be a director. We want her to be more confident.” And my question is, what are you doing in the environment to help them be more confident? Because it has to work both ways. We have to recognise our strengths and our opportunities, but organisations need to recognise what part they play in that as well.

Doug Downs (06:40):
Okay. Let me put you both on the spot here, talk about uncomfortable. What room do you find you are most comfortable in and what room do you find you have imposter syndrome, or where are you the least comfortable? Farzana, just for fun, I want to start with you if I could. Sure. Yeah, yeah.

Farzana Baduel (06:58):
I would say that if I know the people, if they make me feel safe, if I feel that they have my back, if I feel that they will view me fairly and without bias, if the people I'm going to walk into the room and see are evolved people, if they have self awareness, if they are aware of bias, if they lean into it rather than attack it and distance themselves from privilege, I think that's the kind of people that make me feel safe. And when that's lacking, then I'm sort of guarded.

Advita Patel (07:48):
For me, it used to be whether it was fairly represented, and it still is to an extent. Is the room fairly represented? Do I see other people like me in the room? Now, in the profession that we work in, in PR and communications, it's rare, I have to admit, when I go into senior leadership conversations, to see people like myself. And you mentioned in the introduction that I was the first South Asian woman to be president of CIPR. In fact, I was the first person of colour in the 70 odd year history to be president of CIPR.

(08:24):
 The reason behind that was because when you see someone like you represented, you instantly feel like you do belong and you will be heard. And I echo Farzana's sentiment in having that space where you know that you'll be listened to and the power dynamics won't influence how you are seen and how you are made to belong. Now, since my confidence journey, the big part for me is my expertise and my credibility helped me belong in that room. And that's my self advocacy work that I've done on myself. And for me to remind myself, I belong in that space just as much as everybody else. And it's my role in that room to make sure that my credibility does shine. And I've got tactics and techniques in order to manage conversations that exclude me or dismiss me. And I think when you know those techniques and tactics, it's much

Doug Downs (09:14):
Easier. Okay. Where are they? Sorry. Sorry, you brought them up. I've got to pull that nudge.

Advita Patel (09:17):
No, no, absolutely. So it's understanding, because what I will say about the exclusion element of being in a room is everyone expects it to be somebody who's like a villain, who is a horrible, nasty person who's excluding everybody. That's not the case. Ninety nine per cent of the time, that's not the case. You're looking at people who overtalk, people who have an ego, people who have a power dynamic challenge, people who are really enthusiastic and really want to get their point across, but don't hear anybody else around them. For you as an individual, you need to assess the situation. Is it a leader who is just enthusiastic and doesn't see or hear people because they're just getting carried away with their vision? Or is it somebody who is uncomfortable with challenge? Is it somebody who just doesn't see or hear anything around them anymore? Once you identify what the opportunity is for you, you can reframe the conversation.

(10:18):
 So if it is somebody who is over enthusiastic and really over the top with their presence and not hearing anybody, then you can say, and a tactical thing is to say, “I have five or three things I need to raise. Please, could you give me grace to just say that?” And then I would love to hear your point of view. Now, that takes courage. I'm not saying that's easy and it depends on hierarchy in the room, but ultimately, if you're going into those conversations and people are not listening to you, then you need to ask the question about what it is that you can do within the control you have to change that. And if you don't have the hierarchy or the power, then who do you have in your world that can help you be there and get there? So is there a peer?

(11:01):
 Is there a colleague? Is there a senior leader who can help manage that conversation with you where they can give that feedback that would be received well? But we always make the assumption that the person who's dominating the conversation is this nasty, evil person, and they rarely are not.

Farzana Baduel (11:17):
Now, Advita, I've worked with you in many different rooms in the Chartered Institute of Public Relations, in the Asian Communications Network. I follow you on Instagram and you just seem to be the epitome of confidence. You walk into a room, you deliver these incredible keynote speeches around the world. For those who are listening, who feel that they have a confidence gap, what advice would you give them that has really helped you over the years? Because I remember you mentioning to me that you didn't always start out like this confident go getter. You had to build yourself up. What advice would you give to our community?

Advita Patel (11:59):
Great question. And yes, I didn't. If you knew me before 2018, I was not the person that I am today. I spent a lot of my time doubting my abilities, waiting for validation, waiting for permission, waiting to be invited into conversations. And when you wait for those things to happen, they rarely do, unless somebody pays attention to what's going on. And I'm going to be honest, we're busy people with lots going on around us, and no matter what your intent is, we do sometimes forget that there are things going on around us where we could help other people. So you have to be intentional. One of the biggest things, and the biggest piece of advice I'll give to folks, is get to know yourself well. Get to know who you are well, because when you know yourself well, there isn't anything that anyone can say to you or do to you that will knock you away from your path.

(12:54):
 And that's the number one thing I did for myself. I learned to understand where my strengths were, where my genius lies, what my values were, what my purpose was, what legacy I wanted to leave behind, what support I wanted to give to others, and critically what I was good at and what I wasn't good at, and then how do I plug the gap in that? And recognising and understanding that about myself really pushed me into the next phase of my life, which is advocating for myself and understanding that I can't be everybody's cup of tea, otherwise I will be a mug. And I say that all the time, that I went through this chronic people pleasing phase where I wanted every single person to like me. And trying to get everyone to like me did me an injustice. And I didn't show up as my best self in those situations because I was so busy adapting and crafting out my identity that I thought the other person would value from me rather than leaning in on who I was and what I needed, which is why I wrote the book, just happened to have it right next to me, The Seven Habits of Confident Leaders, because I've been observing, researching, and studying leaders, and what makes a confident leader isn't the bold, extroverted individual, it's that person who knows themselves really well.

Farzana Baduel (14:17):
And could you just talk us through what are the seven habits?

Advita Patel (14:21):
So the seven habits sit under the mnemonic BELIEF, which is if you don't believe in yourself, you can't expect anyone else to believe in you. So it's about boldness, it's about empathy, it's about learning, it's about integrity, it's about empowerment, it's about vulnerability. And the most important habit, in my opinion, and the one that I really focus on and ask other people to focus on, is energy. Because when your energy isn't where you need it to be and your mental health is being impacted, you can't deliver against those six other habits.

Farzana Baduel (14:57):
Yeah. I was going to say, Doug, Advita gave me some really good advice once about energy. And could you tell Doug what you told me about keeping these energy files?

Advita Patel (15:09):
Energy audits. Energy audits. So every six months I do an energy audit and apologies to friends, colleagues, people listening, but it's an important thing to do. So I list every single person I know in my life and every person I'm in contact with and rate them out of 10 in terms of how much energy they consume. Not to exclude them from my life, not to distance myself from them, but just to understand what boundaries I may need to put in place, what things I need to do to make sure that I keep my energy sustainable. So if there's a meeting that you go into and there are a couple of individuals that drain you, then what you may want to do is put contingencies in place after that conversation that elevate your energy again, or make sure that you don't book yourself back to back in meetings because you know that meeting's going to take a lot away from you.

(16:03):
 Knowing where your energy is consumed and where your energy is thriving is critically important for our success.

Doug Downs (16:10):
It sounds like the mother in law index, but I won't go there. I won't go there. One of the things that I'm drawing from you about leaders, and I think this should be fairly intuitive, is that even at a one to one level, it's the leader's job to make the room comfortable for each individual person, the so called open door policy, even if that's not a literal open door. It's that you can approach me, you can admit something, you can tell me something, but for heaven's sake, don't let me be surprised by something.

Advita Patel (16:43):
It is the leader's responsibility in making sure that the environment is safe for everybody around them, regardless of their background and their demographic. They hold the power often. Leaders hold the power and they have a role and a duty of care, in my opinion, to make sure that they're creating an environment where people can be their best selves. But the reason I wrote the book for leaders is because leaders often mask their own insecurities and when they mask their own insecurities, the toxic leadership traits show up, such as micromanaging.

Farzana Baduel (17:18):
I just wanted to ask one question, Advita. You said earlier on that it's really important to know yourself and know thyself is as old as time. How do you do it? What are the sort of practical steps? Because everyone talks about it, but actually you've gone through a rigorous self analysis over the years. What did you practically do? What can people do if they want to understand themselves better? Who makes them thrive and who makes them go into their shell, what their strengths and weaknesses are? Because sometimes people don't have the self awareness and sometimes they don't always have people around them who will tell them what their reality is.

Advita Patel (18:02):
Yeah. So what I will say, it isn't easy work. It is uncomfortable because you're having to recondition everything that you've learned. But the practical tips I will give to folks are understanding your values. When I did my values work, we talk about values quite a lot from an organisational perspective, an agency perspective, a business perspective, but we don't talk about values, our own values, our personal values. When you know your values, you understand what your trigger points are, why you react in a certain way, and that can really help you understand yourself better. That was the first thing I did, my values work. The second thing I did was understand my communication preference. What is it about me and how do I like to communicate? And then what can I dial up and dial down depending on the people around me? Because I used to believe that if somebody thought differently to me or reacted differently to me, they were idiots.

(18:54):
 Let's be honest, they don't get it. I don't want them in my life. They're just really hard work. But understanding my communication preference and how I like to work and how others like to work helped me close the conflict gap in conversations and relationships I was building as well. And I think that's something that we need to be quite mindful of as well. And then the other thing is not giving... One of the biggest things I did for myself was not giving myself a hard time. I stopped talking negatively. I punished myself so much previously, and I used to really have this negative self talk that just completely destroyed my self esteem. And it wasn't everybody else around me, it was me doing it to me. So I made a promise to myself that going forward, I was no longer going to have this negative self talk.

(19:46):
 And it may seem a bit woo woo and people are like, “Oh yeah, whatever.” But you start tracking how many times a day you give yourself a hard time, and I can guarantee it's much more than you think it is. And we have to be really kind to ourselves because if we're not kind to ourselves and we don't treat ourselves like we would the person that we love the most, then we can't give that to anybody else. We have to appreciate who we are and what we bring into this world. Everything, greatness and not the great stuff, and appreciate that every day we're learning more about who we are.

Farzana Baduel (20:22):
Love that. Absolutely love it.

Doug Downs (20:24):
What a feel good episode, eh? It just makes you feel better in the last 20 minutes. Advita, thanks so much for your time.

Farzana Baduel (20:30):
Thank you, Advita.

Advita Patel (20:31):
Thank you so much for inviting me.

Farzana Baduel (20:35):
So here are the top three things we got today from Advita Patel. Number one, it is structural, not personal. Imposter syndrome is often caused by environments that don't reflect you, not a flaw within you. Number two, confidence is a skill. Nobody's born confident. It can be learned and built, but organisations must also do their part. Number three, know yourself first. Understanding your values, strengths, and communication style is a foundation for closing the confidence gap.

Doug Downs (21:14):
I'm not sure what order the episodes will publish in, but this is our last chance to record together. It's the end of a year together. The podcast continues, but you're moving on to other things. I am so happy to have had the chance to spend this year with you. And how many hours did we spend working together, solving, at times bickering, all that stuff.

Farzana Baduel (21:39):
It's been incredible. It really has. And Doug, you're such a master podcaster. I've learned so much from you, from voice coaching to the technical aspects of podcast production. I mean, I can see why you and your team look after some of the most well known brands in the industry.

Doug Downs (21:58):
Well, if we're capable broadcasters, podcasters, you are a very good person deep down in your soul. Thank you. And people see it. So what a treat to have worked with you. And we'll see you in London soon.

Farzana Baduel (22:12):
Yes.

Doug Downs (22:13):
We stay friends. Yes.

Farzana Baduel (22:13):
Next month. Absolutely.

Doug Downs (22:15):
Hey, if you'd like to send a message to our guest Advita Patel, we've got our contact information in the show notes. Stories and Strategies, still a co production of Curzon Public Relations and Stories and Strategies Podcasts. If you liked this episode, leave a five star rating, possibly a review. Thank you to producers Emily Page, David Olajidi and Solomon Ibeh. Lastly, do us a favour. Forward this episode to one friend. Thanks for listening.