The Friend Lab

Bryce and Liz Take On The Men's Loneliness Epidemic

• Liz McKean and Bryce The Third • Season 1 • Episode 21

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Did you know there is a loneliness epidemic among men? Bryce did NOT want to have this conversation, so of course we had to have it. And we're so glad we did, because you a deserve a positive, action-oriented perspective, and that's what we have for you today. Ways to connect if you're feeling disconnected. The positive impact of connection for everyone- but in this conversation, particularly for men. And essentially a message of hope for anyone feeling lonely. You are not just a number in some faceless epidemic, you are a person who needs people. So let's get connected- and remember what it actually takes to form meaningful relationships with other humans.

We're so glad you're part of our community, and would love to hear from you! Call in with questions or comments, and use the links below to connect with us on social media.

We love ya!

Liz & Bryce

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About Liz McKean: Liz is a hypnotherapist, yoga teacher, and creator of spaces where people can unshame their coping tools and finally feel better.

About Bryce The Third: When it comes to the most authentic and impactful voices rising out of Detroit, Michigan, Bryce The Third is a name you can’t afford to leave out. Not just an artist, he’s an emotional engineer with a live show that a mix of performance art, storytelling, high level lyricism and community building. Not only does Bryce have a story to tell, when you witness it, you’ll wanna tell yours 

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More about Liz → lizmckean.com

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Follow Bryce on Instagram → @brycethethird


SPEAKER_06

And I think that's why I was so adverse to doing an episode about a loneliness epidemic. Because once it becomes the buzzword, now it's bigger than a solution. Now it's okay, well, who's gonna solve it? Where's the medicine? And it's like, hey, it could be as simple as getting outside of your shelf today, picking up the phone and calling and calling and checking on somebody. It could be as simple as if you, you know, in recovery, going to a meeting, working with another alcoholic or addict. It could be as simple as if you're in a small town going to the local coffee shop, hanging out in there, checking in with somebody. It could be as simple as calling somebody that's in your call log for no reason that you haven't talked to in a minute. It could be as simple as when somebody comes across your mind, you reach out.

SPEAKER_04

And just mentioning that like simple is not the same as easy, right? We know that about so many things. Like recovery is certainly a thing that we've talked about this, where it's just like, yeah, it's as simple as not drinking anymore. And that's the like not easy. Like, holy shit, that's not easy. But simple, yes. So if like the simple thing that you're about to do feels not easy, that doesn't mean that it's that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. It's just like it's just it's just breaking a pattern.

SPEAKER_06

What up, my friends, and welcome to the Frame Lab. We're your host and good friends, Bryce the Third.

SPEAKER_00

And Liz McKean. And if you're here, you're here to cook up some friendship.

SPEAKER_06

We know that it's hard to make friends, and it could be a challenge to keep friends and be a friend. So building connections in your life is something that you're looking to get better at. You're in the right place.

SPEAKER_00

Friendship and connection and relationships of all kinds are the best kind of challenge. It's the thing that makes being a person worth being a person. We're excited to share our friendship with you.

SPEAKER_06

So throw your lab coach on, and let's get this experiment jump in the friend lab. In the friend lab. What up, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Friend Lab Podcast. We are your host, Bryce the Third. I'm trying to figure out if you watch this on YouTube, if it's like a YouTube thing or if it's like a uh intro to a show thing, but it's like the hand always does this. What up, everybody? What up, everybody, and welcome to the better than like finger guns, like what up, everybody. Oh no. Hey, um, so before we get the show started, uh, I am I guess I would be considered a cenophile. Um, that's somebody who loves movies. I love all media, but movies in general, uh, as well as music, as well as uh physical media. So yeah, I guess all media. Except for social media. I like social media, but that's work for me. That's not like necessarily I'm a connoisseur of it. I'm connoisseur of the culture that fuels social media. Anyways, before I go off on a tangent, there's a movie called The Drama. Yeah, it's an A24 movie, it's what's in Day and Robert Patter Pattinson, uh Edward from Twilight. Um, it was phenomenal, and I'm not gonna say anything about it, but you just said finger guns, and if you all watched the movie, you're gonna know what I'm talking about. Anyways. Uh no, there that yeah, and I I just wanted to share that because it was a really good ass movie, man.

SPEAKER_03

It was good.

SPEAKER_06

It was a really good movie.

SPEAKER_03

Even without the vampires? Not a vampire guy, anyway, so I don't know. There you go.

SPEAKER_06

You know, you know, uh, you know Robert Petter Pattinson. Is it Pedterson or Pattinson?

SPEAKER_04

I don't know. Sorry, not as well. Let's just call him Edward.

SPEAKER_06

You know, Edward doesn't like Twilight. Oh, he he will not grant permission for his likeness from that movie to be you rude. He thinks that the movie was corny and it was whack.

SPEAKER_03

And it likes it. It made him so rich and famous. Like that feels weird to hear. I mean, like, you cannot.

SPEAKER_06

It's like I there's certain songs that I can't go back and listen to just because it's like, ah, I'm so much better than that. So I understand it. It's just like the fan base around it, like to see because I told my daughter to go see Twilight live with an orchestra, and like to see them connect with each other in such a way over the corny, like this is the first time I've ever seen this movie. And I told her, I'm like, the only way I'm gonna see this movie is like with a live orchestra. It has to be, it has to be something totally different.

SPEAKER_03

Ultimatum that you don't usually hear.

SPEAKER_06

But um, yeah, to see them connect with each other, they know. Like the it's not like a fan base that doesn't know that this thing is corny. You know, they connect over the cheesiness. And so it's like, hey, you might not like the art, but you you gotta love the fact that there's this community that's gathered around in such a way that like, you know, when they see each other, are you Team Edward? Are you Team Jacob? Or, you know, what's your favorite one? And they're quoting those, oh we gotta gotta the baseball scene is the one, and you know, so you started like you contributed to something that that has I'm sure created long-lasting friendships.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, and I you know, I hear it's interesting because I hear the cast of friends are the people that I you know follow on. Bruce Willis included. No, not Bruce Willis. Um, but I mean I I I'm a fan of Bruce Willis, but like uh Lisa Coudreau who played Phoebe and David Schumer, who played Ross, are two in particular, who I know they've done a lot of interviews, and Friends always comes up. And it was, you know, decades ago at this point, and they've both done an enormous amount of good work since then. And the question has come up, and then you know, people ask them about friends and stuff, and the questions come up like, is it okay that we're talking so much about friends? We know that you're here to like promote this whatever other movie you did or whatever. And they both have said, like, yeah, like I feel, you know, like I know they they've acknowledged it. Like I know some actors will say that they don't want to be, you know, put in that box of that one thing they did that they're the most famous for, and they want to just focus on their new thing and you know, whatever. You don't define me by this, but like they're both like, but it was an amazing thing that we were part of. And people talk about how much it still means to them, and it's like brought them together with others and it's gotten them through hard times, and like, you know, how could we feel anything but proud of that and grateful for that? And like, you know, they the way they've talked about it feels like that that feels so good as a fan, you know what I mean, to hear. And I don't know what it's like to be a wildly famous person, obviously. So I don't want to, you know, make judgment on the the man formerly known as Edward, but it just it's it seems like oh, it seems like that's that's sad if you were part of something that means so much to people and you just don't want to have any association with it anyway.

SPEAKER_06

I mean, I wouldn't like I I know what it from a creator standpoint. As a very famous person yourself, you can speak from a different standpoint as a F less celebrity. No, but just as a creator, like I know what it's like to like, okay, yeah, I created that thing, but I'm moving on. I just saw a clip with um Marquez Houston and from from IMX immature, um, and then he ended up going solo, the RB dude. But I don't know if you remember the show Sister Sister. He played, he played Roger on Sister Sister. And so he he when the catchphrase go home Roger started to catch on, he was like, Yes, I got my Urkel moment. You you know, he's like now I'm in the zeit guy, so I'm in a coach.

SPEAKER_04

He's their brother, isn't he? Isn't that the guy that's actually?

SPEAKER_06

No, he's a guy from across the street. He's a kid from across the street.

SPEAKER_04

No, but I mean like in real life.

SPEAKER_06

No, no, no, no, no. No, that's that's TJ. Um, yeah, okay. That's not exclusive now. He had his own show called Smart Guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

He was also on Baby Daddy, which was a really cheesy show, but I loved it.

SPEAKER_06

Anyways, though, like he I saw this clip with him talking about how much because immature was taking off, like the boy band was taking off and he wanted to be cool. And so he wanted to, he was trying to shug off that Urkel image. He like he didn't want to be nerdy no more. And they tried to like do it in the show to where they gave him like a little cool factor, but he just had to leave. But like me as a viewer, I was always able to separate like Roger from you know Marquez Houston from immature. It was like those were two different things. I could do it, I knew how, you know. But as the artist, it could be like, hey, you know, I I don't want to be this because I want to be this because this is what the future holds for me, and this is like, you know, what I'm learning about myself creatively, and I just don't I can't do that, you know?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

I I get it, I get it, but you know, shout out to Edward from Twilight.

SPEAKER_04

And Jacob, whose name was Taylor, and he was dating Taylor Swift, and then they were in another movie together, and they did a little joke about it, and I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_06

Are you talking about uh the wolf? Yeah. You know you're from here, right?

SPEAKER_04

What?

SPEAKER_06

Yep, he's from here. He he's from the Oh, he's from there. Oh yeah, he's from up north.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, cool. Adorbs.

SPEAKER_06

Mm-hmm. I thought he was gonna pop into the uh to the Twilight Orchestra thing. It's like just it'd be cool if he was just like in the crowd.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06

That would be uh so I'm lonely, Liz.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'm here for you, Bryce. It's my responsibility to fix this for you. I've decided.

SPEAKER_06

Thank you. Thank you, Liz has single-handedly solved the man's loneliness epidemic. End of the episode. So scene. We were we were thinking about things to talk about today, uh, because we have uh such a large canvas to paint and so many topics to choose from. And the men's loneliness epidemic came up and I was like, absolutely not. What the fuck is that? But I think it's really I think it's really interesting that I had such a a a opposed reaction to even talking about that. And so uh I think because of that, I'm I'm ready to dig in. So what Liz, what is the men's loneliness epidemic?

SPEAKER_04

Well, Bryce, I'm glad you asked. Uh so Gallup, which is a surveying body, um found recently, and recently means like as of two tw 2025, that uh 25% of men between the ages of 15 and 34 reported feeling lonely compared to 18% of women. If you Google the lone men's loneliness epidemic, or even men are lonely, you will find endless pages, endless studies, endless like psychology today, um, American Institute for Boys and Men, um, different articles on Medium, different mindful therapy groups type things. There's YouTubes, there's a lot of conversation about this happening. But I think the that that Gallup study was one of the things that pushed it into like the scientific kind of communities consciousness of one in four men. Um, and I think they expanded that age group, because I've heard also just like over 30 report having no close friends, and that is wildly smaller um uh when you survey women. And you know, they've talked a lot about the wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_06

So you said men have no close friends over 30. Yeah. And that number is oh, oh, so the people the women who have no close friends over 30 is a smaller number than the not even close to that.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, like, yeah, very, very big to the point that that the AI um snippet of all the different research and stuff didn't even report on it, which also could just be because, you know, who cares about women? It's fine, it's fine. Um, but it's the kind of thing that I feel like is fascinating to talk about because I, you know, I'm excited to hear you say the thing out loud that you said before we got on, which it could be that can be discussed in a way that really sucks for women. And also, I think it is a thing that affects everybody when when when there's a that bigger group of the population that is lonely, that is unhappy, it has a big cultural impact. We've seen that. We talked about incels in a previous episode. And also I I see this in my own life. I see this with my my brother and my husband, who actually do have very close friends, but they're like their childhood friends. They live far away. And it's just them meeting new people, especially when they come to a new place. Billy and I move a lot, um, is a very different experience than me. And I think there's, you know, socialization involved in that. But, anyways, it's it's there's a big conversation there. And you have created such a beautiful world of male friendships that I thought it would be cool to talk about with you in particular, which is all the more funny that when I mentioned it as a possible topic, you're like, absolutely not. And usually I'm the naysayer about stuff around here. So anyway, what was up with that big old reaction there, Mr. Cobb the Third?

SPEAKER_06

Well, I think, first of all, damn, you're gonna use my whole government name. All right, Elizabeth. Um we uh we so this is the thing. I don't like things. Now I I'm not a I'm not a researcher, I'm not a scientist, but I know once we make a thing a thing, like, ah, it's a thing, you know? Um and so, especially these days where culturally, when a thing becomes a thing, it becomes bigger than the thing was when it became a thing. You know, it's not about like a man not having friends and learning to bridge the gap between a man who doesn't have any friends with men friends, like it could really get sucked up into a black hole of like, you know, leftist, rightish politics, and I'm I don't even know if that's how you say it, because I that's how so far removed from it I am, but it can it can turn into a thing that's bigger than the actual thing and then turn into a culture itself. And which it has. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I just found out what incels are, maybe like a month ago. And I think maybe we talked about it on the show, maybe we didn't, I don't know. But like incel means like involuntarily celibate. Uh very angry little boys on the internet. It's a whole world that I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

That I I I'd rather well I almost say I'd rather not understand. I think I'm taking it slow because I can get there's there's a Russell Westbrook, a Russell Westbrook gif that's like, hmm? I can get so like, hmm? Like, what are you talking about? When I listen to like some of this stuff that I'm hearing. And I think when it comes to something as impactful on our lives as being lonely, that experience itself can subject us to a vulnerability that the wrong entity that knows how to take advantage of vulnerabilities can take advantage of in a way that like mobilizes and weaponizes that loneliness in a way that doesn't solve the loneliness but just makes the world weirder. And so when you said the men's loneliness epidemic, it's like here's this thing that I don't want to magnify nor amplify what comes to mind when I hear it, because like the connotation I hear when I hear that is like Andrew Tate or like you know uh um uh uh Elon Musk or like just the the weird men who are like women don't understand.

SPEAKER_04

Well, they are the ones who have exploited this story. They're the ones who have exploited this thing that, you know, in its in a uh positive light could be used to give people language for a thing that they were feeling that they thought they were alone in.

SPEAKER_06

And then what ends up happening is you create community. And so in essence, it does remedy the loneliness because, like, oh yeah, I got my I got my bros, but it's like brothers in war against women. Because of course it's women's fault.

SPEAKER_01

Of course it's all the women's fault.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let's wait. Oh, hold up, please. Yeah, you know, um, so yeah, I I I've got a man's group, and it's so funny that, you know, even just yesterday I made a post on my stories, because I had talked to three or four of my brothers. You know, we get off the phone say, I love you, bro, I love you too. And and it I just had a lucid moment of really being appreciative of like knowing that when people say that to me, they mean it, and knowing that when I say it back, I mean it. And having had the experience of like either saying it back, but like I didn't expect you to say it. So when I said it, I just said it because you said it, or like hearing it from somebody else, and I I understand how shallow it is when you say that, you say that to everybody, and then I'm I'm not gonna say that to you because I feel like it's more substantial of a thing to for than for me to just say haphazardly. Like to be in a space where I'm surrounded by healthy men that tell me they love me and I tell them I love them back and like I really mean it and I had that connection, it's something I've had to work for, and it's something that now I think I'm to the point of you know uh being in flow in the experience where like I'm I'm reaping the benefits. But at first, and even so even yesterday, right? So my man's group, we we we started it and it's probably about 35 men in there.

SPEAKER_04

We do a Oh, I didn't realize it was that big. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_06

Well, yeah, but this is the thing, like maybe only 15 at a time activate. Even though some will disappear, some will come back, but like it's it's it's there's no qualification. It's not a lot of times when I've said men's group in different places, like people are like, oh, with the church, like absolutely not. For me, I mean, you know, there are people there that there actually is a Bible study that has been read. Uh like there's there's many side missions that happen. You know what I'm saying? So there's a Bible study with a couple of dudes, they get together and do a Bible study weekly. Uh, me and a couple of dudes, we do drop the rock, which is 12-step AA literature. Um we're talking about doing some meditation, like it's just like it's really a free-for-all. Do what you want, and you feel if you feel it needs to exist in this space, like hit it up. And there's gonna be somebody here because there's a lot of us with different interests, we're different age groups, different races, uh different in, you know, in you know what I'm saying? So it's it's the only qualification is that somebody from within the group invites you. And I I have no jurisdiction if Deontay wants to invite somebody, he can invite whoever you want, because he's already here. So he's already a leader. So we're all leaders. And then every month we do an in-person and virtual, and each month there's one main leader and then two supports. And whatever the whatever you want to lead up, whatever the topic of the virtual is, whatever the in-person is, then you know it is what it is, and and we'll be there. We'll be there to support. So this month was supposed to be my dog Tori, his month, but he's overseas. He thought he was gonna be back in April. Um, but you know, it's a fucking shit show. So he's not gonna be back this month. Um, but so he's running a virtual and I'm running it in person. I will support, but now I'm leading. So one of the things that I kind of wanted to take initiative on this this year was one showing up to every men's group this year, you know, with the energy of because some of us are in Lansing, and for like me, Lansing is like a two-hour drive, you know? Hour, hour 40, hour, hour 30, hour 40. And but the Lansing boys come out to Detroit all the time, you know? And so for me, it's just like it's less about I want people to know that when it's show month, that people gonna show up and people gonna support and brotherhood is dear. So like I've taken it upon myself. It to the best of my ability, I'm making every man's group this this year, right? To support. That's firstly. And and secondly, it's important for us to do outreach and not in the like way that I want the most people at my my group, but just in a way to like kind of, you know, we worked at, we worked for organizations together, and there's been times where, you know, you'll come with free programming, but nobody will show up. And it's like, oh, they don't, they don't see themselves in in the offering. You know, you came to Detroit with shit with mountains, like we don't got mountains in Detroit, and the the collateral just got a whole bunch of white people with helmets on, you know, there's no white people with helmets on mountains in Detroit. So we don't, even though it's free, we don't show up because we don't think it's for us. So that's what I've learned with the men's group. It's important to do the outreach because we have the tendency. Well, I won't say we, I've I'll say I've had the experience of like always being the odd man out and looking at like, ah, y'all got y'all click, y'all got y'all group, you know what I'm saying? But I'm, you know, I, you know, I bounce here and there. So I'm not really a part of this. Y'all was already a part of this before I was a part of this, so that's y'all, you know. But I'm on the outside. I have that tendency to other myself. And so it's important to me to do the outreach and connect with people. And it's like, yeah, come to the group. I want you at the group, but like, this is why, you know, and whether you make it to the group or not, how are you? You, you know, what's going on, bro? Like, you know, brotherhood is yours. It's not like it's this is available to you. Like, no, literally, it's Yours. The reason you hear is because XXXXX. Nobody in this group contributes this specific thing. You know, you are this level of contribution. The group is not the same without you there. You know, this is your group. And uh I think, and then I want to pass it back to you before I get too long-winded. I think in that element is something important because sometimes, so like last night I only made two calls. I was planning on going down a list. I called a couple guys, and but the second one I called, we had an hour and a half conversation. So after that, it's like, well, I'll make some more calls tomorrow, but we ended up talking. He asked me some questions. I asked him some questions, like, what do you do when you don't know what to do? And we just end up just talking crazy. And then um they were like, Yeah, we'll be there, and like they see themselves as part of that. You know, I there's also another guy where uh I I I've had multiple conversations with him, and even it it feels like that thing where like you're pulling somebody and they're kind of like pulling away as you pull them close, you know, to hey man, this is about, you know, this is about you. This is your group. Like nobody else here is this like you are, like nobody it's like, yeah, yeah, okay, man, yeah, okay, man, yeah, okay. Uh uh, but it felt like pulling teeth. And I know within that is probably like the inner mechanism of whatever that person is going through that feels like this either isn't the space for me or I'm not open to connectivity. But my thing is that experience that you haven't can't it, it will be if it's up to me, it will not be for the lack of resources being in your life. You may not be able to see the resources as resources because of the things that are working in you. And that's why I want to pass it back to you because when we're talking about this man's loneliness epidemic, it's like, I hear you, bro, but if you're shut the fuck up, screaming from the mountaintops that nobody wants to play with you, like you might get your hands dirty in learning to be where people are playing and being a part of something. Stop being so terminally unique that you you you're not open to connectivity. If it's a man's loneliness epidemic, and an epidemic is a whole bunch of people, there's a whole bunch of people in this fucking pool. So what if we all got together and stopped being lonely? But you gotta think about that mindset and that spirit, that spirit set that doesn't allow for me to connect because you know all the things that humans go through where it's like, oh, you know, I'm not worth connection. Oh, nobody, or nobody understands what I'm going through, or, you know, nobody's come from where I've come from, or I'm different in those ways. Like all humans go through that, not just men. You know, but I think the men thing is like vulnerability and masculinity sometimes can can clash in a way culturally that like prevents us from being open to connectivity or always kind of like, all right, I hear you saying that, like this is my community, I belong here, I'm I'm important, I'm special, and you care about me. But bro, what is like what what is your you know, what is your strategy? Because I I really and and I feel it too, even when I'm doing re outreach, like I I want to prioritize connection over the fact that I want you at this group, but it can still feel marketing like hey, I want you to get a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04

And we're just all sold to all the time now, so yeah, it can feel like you just have an immediate wall that goes up that is just makes complete sense. Like that's logical.

SPEAKER_06

And and me and man man walls are are are very specific walls, even though they're they're humanitarian walls. Man walls.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I think Yeah, I mean I agree with everything you said. I love I just have been forever in such awe. Just I just admire what you've done with that men's group so much. And I know that you make such a point to talk about how it's you know it's not yours, and it's like, you know, these it's the group, and I like, you know, that's a set you've done such a good job of making it a collective and you know, not having it be like, you know, reliant on everybody's there just to to see Bryce the third because he's a what did you call it? What what what letter are we at now? F F grade celebrity? F- List, it's list.

SPEAKER_06

F list we go.

SPEAKER_04

I feel like that just is not. I don't know. I don't I think you're creeping your way up the alphabet faster than you think. But anyways, I I you know it really is just uh like you said, the the best communities that I'm part of definitely it it really feels that way. It's like, oh, we are better because you're part of it, and it is just such a we. And I love that you know, you're a person who is able to notice something is missing or that there's like a either a problem or just something could be better in life, and you find a way to be the change. And I I I love that. And I and I also think that that's not gonna even look the same for everybody. I know I'm much more of a one-on-one person. Like I like being part of things, but like I actually like being a little bit on the outside of it because I I tend to feel a little trapped if I'm like I'm just not like a big group project kind of girl, but I also love connecting with people one-on-one. I you know, I find ways to be connected and I see I don't know that that's just been available as much for some of the men that that I in in my life anyway, who are just lovely humans. And it doesn't have to be, you don't have to go out and create a men's group. You can and you can find a men's group, but I also think just okay, I'm I'm doing all this lead up without making any sense. And I'm just thinking about my brother who what like lives out of state and he's moved around the country quite a bit because of the work that he does. And so that it's made it hard to like really get close to anybody in any individual place. And he's, you know, married and his wife is just like the most wonderful human. Um, but he was feeling really lonely because like his close, close friends are in different parts of the country, many of them here where we're from. And so he like called them up, like made a point to call them up. And this was not something that that they normally would do, just to be like, I miss you. I'm sad because I haven't seen you in a long time. Can we plan a trip where like these, you know, whatever, four or five guys that were just kind of all over the country in different parts of our lives, some have kids, some are married, some are not. Like, can we just plan something and get together because I miss you? And I'm sad because I miss you. And like they were like, dude, me too. You know what I mean? Like he didn't know what was gonna happen from there because they had never done that before. And now they do that like with some, I don't know if it's a yearly trip or something, but it was just like he there was something that was similar to you, like something is missing. I'm gonna make it happen. It was just very unique to him. Um, and I see with Billy, with my husband, you know, like his friends are like in different parts of the country, and we've moved quite a bit. So, you know, he'll have people that he gets to know through work or something, but it's different than like those lifelong friendships that I think a lot of guys just have. I I feel like I know so many guys that have had the same friends since childhood. Yeah, so it's all different experiences. And I think when we talk about this loneliness epidemic, it's like we're we like anything, you make it a thing, and there's supposed to be this one solution. Unfortunately, I think, like you said, for some people it's like, well, women stop have to stop being such bitches and have sex with these boys because they're lonely. And it's like, or play together, hang out together, have another man in your life who you can like, I don't know, do something with. Watch the game, talk about your feelings, call when you're wanting to like, you know, do something that that would be more fun with a friend. And yeah, for for a million reasons, good and maybe less good, there's men are struggling with that, and that's that's that sucks. And I love this conversation where it's like action-oriented.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. A couple things there.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, what'd I get wrong?

SPEAKER_06

There's no wrong or right.

SPEAKER_01

Except the thing you're about to tell me that I got it.

SPEAKER_06

No, no, no, no, no. Literally, literally, like that, like that that sounds amazing, what your brother put together. Um and the fact that I think so. When you when you say epidemic and you say loneliness, it's like ouch, like that hurts, that sucks, and a lot of times what causes us to seek solution is when something sucks. And so in that instance, it sounded like your brother was having an experience that's like, you know, ouch. And how do we remedy? And for him, you know, that remedy was to take a shot and call the homies and and see, you know, if they feel the same. And if so, like how can we all remedy this together and build community that's maybe unlike the community that we've ever built before? And, you know, it it it wor it worked in his favor to where it's like, oh yeah, you know, uh it started a new conversation, and that's the thing too. Because we've talked a couple of times about the I don't do best friends thing. And I've I've done research into what that is, and I've watched other people navigate life in a way where like a best friend is almost the the thing like it's it's like perfect getting in the way of done. Because I have this idea of what like the best friend in the world looks like that I miss these micro instances of connection that could eventually grow into something deeper because like there's these misses that don't line up to my idea of a best friend. And then I have like no friends, and then I'm prickly because like I'm super it's important to have discernment, it's important to be selective, but you know, I know when I have the the I need a best friend hat on, like I'm prickly. I'm prickly, like that, like damn, I need you. I called you, why you ain't pick up? Damn, I ain't gonna call you no more. See, you know, like I'm prickly, but when I wear the I haven't met everybody who's gonna love me hat on, you know, when I wear that hat, it's like every little piece of connection, it's like, damn, that's amazing. You know, I come from like nothing. I come from being nowhere. You will know, like with nobody, you will know, eating cereal, no milk. That's a meme. Um it switches me from like expectation into gratitude. And gratitude begets things to be grateful for. And I know in relationship, like when people vocally express or when they, you know, just through existing show appreciation for what I am in their life, they're gonna wanna be more. I want to be more. And so uh I'll start with that and then I'll I'll lean into the fact that 90% of my connections in my life are people that I've met with in the past five years.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Day one, like they don't they wouldn't even recognize me if we talked. You know, and and the relationships I build today, they're built on the foundation that I'm going to grow. And I think there's this thing, you know, especially with the Judd of Potow films, you know, stepbrothers and Talladega Knights, and it's like, you know, they the the the guy you grew up with, and y'all, Ricky Bobby Shake and Bake, and you know, it's like y'all got your inside stuff, and like it's been this way since we were kids. And I don't got too many of those. I don't got too many of those. And not to say that one is better than the other, but I will say that there's a lot of growth that happens from being a kid to being a grown-up. You know, and a lot of times when it comes to like childhood friends, if you're growth oriented, we tend to stretch just to continue to remain friends with the people that we grew up with. You know, it's like I gotta like, ugh, you know, I gotta do a little bit more to make that happen. You know, because I'm not who I used to be. You know?

SPEAKER_05

Neither are they.

SPEAKER_06

And neither are they. And so the inquiry that it takes, as well as the the the the humility and patience that it takes to continue to cultivate something like that, is uh that takes, you know. And so I the the romantic side, the romantic nature of my childhood friend, and you know, my closest friends can get in the way, can get in the way of like, oh damn, I just met this, I just met this dude at the library. You know, he in the music, he had his DJ equipment there, and I'm like, bro, you're DJing in the library. And I started to talk to him, and he's like, Yeah, I go to these, uh, I go to these engineering classes over here, and he was like, you know, he gave me the flyer. I think I'm gonna pop up on him. You know, like those are the type type of instances that have led me to build connection. And it's not on nobody else to do it for me. It's not on no organization. It's not, it's it's definitely not on women. It's definitely not on women. It's on me to take the initiative to get over that hump because that's another thing about the cause that I made yesterday. You know, contrary to popular belief about Bryce, I don't always feel like calling people. I don't feel like calling people. And yesterday when I was calling the bros to like see who's gonna show up, I didn't want to do that. But I know the life that I live and desire to live is full of connection with healthy men. And so picking up the phone, even though it feels like it's a hundred thousand pounds, I'm willing to do it because that's the work that is is is for me.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

And it takes energy, just like it takes energy to go to a subreddit and talk about this in interaction that you have with the woman that just further proves that women hate men.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Everything takes energy, but which outcome do you want?

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's 100% true. It because yeah, the thing that the difference I feel like between the whole, wait, there's a loneliness epidemic. Who do I blame for that? Who do I get mad about that? And like, how do I connect with other guys just so we could talk about how mad we are at the people who have made us lonely like this? That is a very different feeling than like, wait, there's a loneliness epidemic. Oh my God, it's not just me. I feel lonely. What can I do about this? Okay, so normally I get home from work and I sit in front of the TV or I scroll or whatever. Maybe today I'll like go and try something. I'll go out and like do something a little different. And it's not easy. And I'd say that as a person who every time I leave my house, I'm like, I don't want to do it. But I also like know that I need to be out in the world with other people. And like when I go to, you know, even just the gym, like that's where there's people that I see every day. And so I get to say hi to them, and then those become friendships. And it would be very easy to not do that. And it would be very easy. Also, I'm not a phone call person either. And so, like, remembering that like even though I haven't talked to this person in a little while, they still exist in the world. And like dialing the phone for whatever weird reason feels hard, but it's worth it because it connects me to people that love me. It's I think number one, it like, yeah, it takes a different pointing your energy in a different direction, which is uncomfortable. It takes ris like risking rejection sometimes, which is incredibly uncomfortable. And it also takes having it not be all about you, like have not not this be this thing that's happened to you, but but a thing that maybe you can do something about. And in that doing by design requires you to be in relationship with another person, which makes you makes means you gotta do stuff for them too. Like there's it goes both directions, and that's like weird.

SPEAKER_02

How weird that we have to relearn that as adults because like that's like kindergarten shit.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I feel like I feel like you spin, you spin bars, Liz. You spin bars. Like, oh, there's a loneliness epidemic, guys. Well, maybe it's not all about you.

SPEAKER_02

Oh no, I'm gonna get some hate for that shit. This lady.

SPEAKER_06

It's okay. I got your back. Thanks. Likewise. I got your back. I put my bulletproof vest on for Angus.

unknown

Oh, God.

SPEAKER_06

Because this is We love you, Angus. Um, we don't. Yeah. Yeah. I and that, and I think that's why I was so adverse to doing an episode about a loneliness epidemic. Because once it becomes the buzzword, it gets thrown around. Now it's bigger than a solution. Now it's it's like, well, you know, okay, well, who's gonna solve it? Well, you know, where's the medicine? Where's the this? Where's the that? And it's like, hey, it could be as simple as getting outside of yourself today. You know, and picking up the phone and call and calling and checking on somebody. It could be as simple as if you, you know, in recovery, going to a meeting, working with another alcoholic or addict. It could be as simple as if you're in a small town, going to the local coffee shop, hanging out in there. You know, maybe, hey, you know, checking in with somebody. It could be as simple as calling somebody that's in your call log for no reason that you haven't talked to in a minute. It could be as simple as when somebody comes across your mind, you reach out. It could be as simple as you just saying that you need help and saying that you need connection. It could be as simple as going to the gym and asking somebody what their workout routine is, because you know, you like you like their dedication because you see them there all the time. It could be as simple as uh I know a lot of men connect over video games, you know, hopping in there, putting the headset on and really creating a genuine connection. And then maybe, hey, you know, when the next time you gonna be in Detroit? I don't know, man. You know, I'm in Florida down, yeah, dah dah dah. You walk up to da da da. You know, okay, cool. You know, I save up my my little cheese for a month and then fly out. Let's hang out. Like when we put the when we put the uh epidemic on a thing and people start doing thing pieces, it becomes this thing that can be is bigger than a solution. I feel like, especially these days where it's like it's a headline now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

It's a headline now. And then when something is a headline, like, okay, our show is about friends. Our show is about friendships and connection. So we're able to take this headline and turn it into content for us that is relevant to the current political atmosphere, the current atmosphere in the zeitgeist, regardless. There's also 20,000 other shows that know that this is a headline and are using the headline to have a conversation that serves the purpose of whatever platform they're building. And everybody has different objectives. So now it's bigger than hey, putting you in contact with somebody you can relate to and can kick it with that can help curb the loneliness that you're experiencing. And now it's about do you like Coke or Pepsi? Because Coke will help you be less lonely. Man.

SPEAKER_04

It's definitely not sponsored by Coke nor Pepsi.

SPEAKER_06

Like the new the new Coke campaign is gonna be share with Jim. It'll have you know how they had the names on the coke. Share Coke with a gym to solve the man's loneliness epidemic. Like, this ain't about man's loneliness no more. It's about Coke.

SPEAKER_04

I know it does, it becomes the headline. I agree. Well, I want to say one thing that was that I was thinking when you were saying naming all the things that it could be as simple as when it comes to finding that connection. Um, and the just mentioning that like simple, simple is not the same as easy, right? We know that about so many things. Like recovery is certainly a thing that we've talked about this in the where I've talked about this in the realm of where it's just like, yeah, it's as simple as not drinking anymore. And then it's the like not easy. Like, holy shit, that's not easy. But simple, yes. So, like, yes, simple. That doesn't mean so if like the simple thing that you're about to do feels not easy, that doesn't mean that it's that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. It's just like it's just it's just breaking a pattern. And like the I think the other pattern is seeing a headline and letting it be the reason you have no power over this thing. Oh my god, it's an epidemic. I have no power. This is just a thing. I'm just I'm just a victim of this as opposed to doing loneliness. Right. But but like the thing is, I think about um, you know, I'm has an episode gone by that I haven't talked about hormones. Sorry, those are girls. Um I I think about the perimetopause of it all, and how that wasn't even a word that I had that it was in my vocabulary. My mom grew up not, I mean, if she knew that word, it wasn't something that people would say out loud, you know? And now it is being shouted about because so many women are suffering, and we're like, wait a minute, ever every generation has experienced this like decade plus of like real physical suffering. And there's just not been language for it. And so now it's like, you know, women's health hasn't been studied enough. We don't know enough about this. And there's definitely an element of like, Like predatory behavior, like the Andrew Tate of the Men's Loneliness epidemic. There are definitely people out there selling absolute grifty bullshit stuff to women who are like, well, I guess I'm just a victim of this. And also, they could be very convincing. So I'm not blaming the people that are victim to those predatory people out there. But what it has done for me, and I know a lot of other women that I know, is it has given us language. It has given us the ability to say, hey, I'm experiencing this. Are you? Cool. This is the thing that's helping me. What's helping you? And it's bringing us together in a way that is very solution-oriented and is going to change it for the next generation. And I'm so proud of that. And I'm proud of us as a like humanity for those kinds of things where language can be action-oriented, that can be a uniting thing that we are going to help each other with, as opposed to a thing that's like, oh now I've named this, I'm a victim of it. There's nothing I can do. I'll just lay down and die in my menopause of loneliness. Like, no.

SPEAKER_06

Or or using it at the end of the day, what result do you want? You know, because you gotta think about that too. Cause like some people, I well, I don't know, I've only been me, but sometimes it can seem like people don't like I hear what you're saying, but you're putting more energy into spreading awareness of the man's loneliness epidemic than you are of like trying not to be lonely. So like what do you like what do you want, brother?

SPEAKER_04

Well it depends on yeah, it depends on the intention.

SPEAKER_06

What do you want, brother? You want to be loud and heard, you know, uh, even if you want to be understood, like I I get it. I get it. You want to be heard, understood, seen. Dope. But those aren't the the prioritized, those aren't the prioritized outcomes of connection. Those are those are like being heard, seen, validated. Those, those are part of connection, but they're not the prioritized outcomes. The prior prioritized outcomes is mutually being seen, mutually hearing.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

You know, you you're you're heard and you're and you're hearing. You're seen and you have the willingness to see.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

You know, you're understood and you then you seek to understand. So it's like, what like what what do you want? Because we can we can lose the plot.

unknown

Totally.

SPEAKER_06

I don't want us to lose the plot. You know, and that's why, you know, I I'm very careful when I amplify like buzzword epidemic.

SPEAKER_04

You're an E less celebrity.

SPEAKER_06

I just don't want us to lose the plot. You know?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

It's important that we keep the plot. What do we want? What is important? And if connection is important, then yes, let's use the language to find an opportunity to connect a little bit more today. You know, but I've had the same experience when it kind of like ADHD. Some, you know, some some people, I've seen, just like in recovery, I'll see people, it's like, oh, that's the recovery I want. And so I'll model the way that I move after the way that they they move, because like that's when they when you say recovery, that's what I think. You know, just like you know, there's recovery, like there's I don't have a monopoly on recovery or like what's right or what's wrong, but like there's recovery that I look at like, eh, I don't want to be that. And so I don't model my recovery after that. But we're all saying the word recovery. Do you know? You know, ADHD, where it's like, hey, I I I love the fact that you can give me terminology like time maturity, and it helps me to understand like why I don't feel time. Like it feels like other people feel time. You know, object impermanence. Why when I drop clothes on the floor after a day or so, they're just there because like I don't even see them. They don't even impact me like somebody who could, you know, but let somebody let me be about to have company, and then all of a sudden I see all the powers. Like, I gotta clean all these shit up. You know, you give me this terminology, it helps me to understand my experience deeper and helps me to build a relationship that's deeper with myself. Vice versa, though, you have people that are like, oh, ADHD, I just can't come today. Oh, on my ADHD, I just, you know, I just couldn't make it on time. On my ADHD, I just, I just, you know, I just couldn't get out the bed today. You know, and it's like, oh, okay. But I think you just didn't get out the bed and you said ADHD. You know what I'm saying? ADHD. It's like, okay, I I hear you. I hear you. But hear me out. Maybe we lost the plot.

SPEAKER_05

Maybe we lost.

SPEAKER_06

Maybe we lost the plot. And maybe there's something else in there where it's like, I didn't want to come. The relationship with myself is I I the using ADHD to understand, like, okay, there's all these things that I'm battling to get out of the bed. And I don't like you. I'm just not being honest about it with myself. And so my ADHD is flared up because I am facing resistance to the fact that I don't like you, and I'm facing natural biological resistance because like I'm forcing myself to do something that I literally don't want to do.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And then it becomes like a cop-out, honestly. It becomes a thing where it's just like, I've learned that that that some of these symptoms are not my fault, and missing the part where it's like, that doesn't take away your responsibility as a human being. Um and like that responsibility, I've really been trying to reframe that. I I've talked about this in my other podcast, where I was like, the whole like, it's not your fault, but it's your responsibility, um, kind of like mantra that I I've always really liked when it comes specifically to substance use, is powerful for me because it forced me to reframe the word responsibility. Because in the past I saw responsibility as like such like obligation, and it was like, oh my God, I'm just just covered in responsibilities are just weighing me down. Whereas like this is the best kind of responsibility. This is the kind of responsibility where it's like, this is your life. It is your responsibility.

SPEAKER_06

Like, and like you get like it's a it's powerful the word itself, the ability to respond, your ability to show up for whatever the fuck is in front of you.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and your ability to decide what what of that is right for you. And and I think, you know, if you're a person who's looking for connection, which I think many of us, if not most of us, I would I mean if you're listening to this podcast, probably you too. It's like their that responsibility is like to to be to be honest, to to be like to have have some sense of integrity like within the relationship, which means if you are not getting out of bed because every time this person reaches out, your you know, worse ADHD symptoms flare up because at the end of the day, you just don't want to move on, dude. Like say I just I this this isn't gonna I don't have time for this right now. This relationship is gonna work for me. Like, how can you do this kindly because it's in the way of other connection? Because now you spent the day in bed because you didn't want to hang out with me because you don't like me, and that's okay. I'm not for everybody. I talk about variant menopause a lot. But there's like other people out there that will like feel worth getting out of bed for, and and that's I that's the part of that responsibility.

SPEAKER_06

So uh to be honest with you, I was about to say, there is people that will get me to jump out the bed, but maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe getting out the bed is like a thing for me. But there's people that like once I get there, it's like that. You this this is exactly why I got out of the bed.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

This is exactly why I fought through all that resistance, because it is.

SPEAKER_04

You know, sometimes you gotta try it before you even know which one it is.

SPEAKER_06

Like you literally have to try it.

SPEAKER_02

You literally.

SPEAKER_06

Literally, but what is life if it isn't if we're not trying it? You know what I'm saying? Like, what is life? Like, hey, hey, I don't like black licorice. But even when I say that, there's some black licorice that I've eaten that's like, hey, this is I can see how black licorice likers would like this one. I still don't like it. I'll try it if you give it to me just to make sure, but like, I don't I don't not really a black licorice guy. But guess what I did? I fucking tried it. I fucking tried it. Don't be like my daughter and not eat the thing because it's got peppers in it. And I don't like peppers. Terrible, terrible. Um, but yeah, so hopefully we contributed a bit to um the the the destruction of the epidemic of loneliness.

SPEAKER_05

We fixed that.

SPEAKER_06

With this episode. And I think the important thing, at least that what I'm what I'm out what I'm set out to do is to empower you to to know how how capable you are. In a way that if you hear something and it feels like detrimental to your life, that there's some things that we could do about it. You know? Um what was I thinking? Oh, yeah. I might I might cut that part out and tell you after the show, Liz, what I was thinking. But when some sometimes things are big and they can seem really big and me, like I'm allergic to systems. Like the, you know, the carceral systems seems big and seems like I can do nothing about it. But, you know, in session at the juvenile detention center, I made a connection with a kid and we made a secret handshake. And that seems like the smallest thing in the world, but you may be contributing to somebody seeing themselves as worth connection to where that might even pave the way for this kid to not be impacted by recidivism and come back.

SPEAKER_02

Sounds like a lot of people.

SPEAKER_06

Because maybe they'll seek they'll seek connection outside of there. So it's like big ass systems, you know what? Fuck them. Fuck big systems. Fuck them. Fuck them. And we dissolve big systems by taking small steps. And so I wanna, I want, I want to remind you of how powerful you are in taking a small step. And that small step, like like Liz said, is simple, it is simple, but it may not be easy. I do not want to pick up my phone. But if you don't, if I don't want to be lonely, I gotta pick up my fucking phone. It's just that. I know it's easier to go on Reddit and talk about how fucked up shit is and how nobody likes you and shit like that. But that's you know, what what what outcome do you want? Do you want connection or do you want to connect with people who don't feel like they're connected? And even then, haha I got you because you're still connecting.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

You know, so you can't you can't avoid this love.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

You can't avoid this love. Anyways, man, thanks for listening this far on this episode of the friend lab. Thanks for y'all listening uh in general. I don't know if y'all seen on our our social media and stuff that we posted, but we uh we got a little bit of funding. We got a little bit of backing. Um, and and Liz and I are in this cohort to help bring this show to many more people and get it to the ears that need it. Um but regardless of how much funding and and backing we get, uh the the best vehicle to the world is through you. If you took anything from this, send this to a friend. If you're a man listening to this and you felt like you connected, send it to another man and let him feel the power of connection and love. You alone. Um keep listening, subscribe, and we will catch you on the next episode of The Friend Lamb.

SPEAKER_00

See you later.