Friends With Benefits

Ok ya dirty birdy, we're not talking about THOSE benefits! BUT all friendship has benefits - and some are more... material than others. But when does a friendship cross the line from beneficial to... transactional? 

Well, that's what we're discussing today. 

Let us know what you think! We love ya.

-Liz & Bryce

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About Liz McKean: Liz is a hypnotherapist, yoga teacher, and creator of spaces where people can unshame their coping tools and finally feel better.

About Bryce The Third: When it comes to the most authentic and impactful voices rising out of Detroit, Michigan, Bryce The Third is a name you can’t afford to leave out. Not just an artist, he’s an emotional engineer with a live show that a mix of performance art, storytelling, high level lyricism and community building. Not only does Bryce have a story to tell, when you witness it, you’ll wanna tell yours 

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More about Liz → lizmckean.com

Follow Liz on Instagram → @liz.mckean

More about Bryce → BryceTheThird.com

Follow Bryce on Instagram → @brycethethird

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

What up, my friends, and welcome to the Friend Lab. We're your host and good friends, Bryce the Third.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

And Liz McKean. And if you're here, you're here to cook up some friendship.

SPEAKER_05 0:09

We know that it's hard to make friends, and it could be a challenge to keep friends and be a friend. So building connections in your life is something that you're looking to get better at. You're in the right place.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Friendship and connection and relationships of all kinds are the best kind of challenge. It's the thing that makes being a person worth being a person. We're excited to share our friendship with you.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

In the friend lab. What up, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Friend Lab Podcast. We are your host, Bryce the Third.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

And Liz McKean.

SPEAKER_05 0:38

And Liz was talking about friends with benefits. And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about, Liz? And then Liz was like, well, no, not the ones for sex. And then I was like, this is getting interesting. And I was Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Because friends can have benefits that are not sex related.

SPEAKER_05 0:58

Um I feel like every friend, like every friend is beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

True.

SPEAKER_05 1:04

There's something that I'm receiving from being in said relationship.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

And giving.

SPEAKER_05 1:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

But sometimes there's like there's friendships that have very tangible benefits. Like there are friendships that lead to, you know, a a job. There's friendships that are like, hey, I own this restaurant so you can eat here free anytime you want to. Or hey, I I mean somebody's maybe a dermatologist. So you want some Botox? We'll give it to you cheap. You know what I mean? Like there's like so I feel like there are actual tangible benefits in some friendships. I feel like there's there's definitely people I know who always like have a guy. You know what I mean? Like anything you're like, oh man, I really wish. Yeah. And like those those are the kinds of like those are the friends with benefits. And yeah, I think it's just an interesting dynamic because I think, you know, there's like a scorekeeping kind of mechanism that clicks into my brain sometimes when I feel like I'm getting more than I'm giving. And yeah, so I've I've always been really grateful for my friends with benefits and also always have wanted to make sure that that there's some some balance going on because I think that can go in the opposite direction and end up being a very exploitative or transactional relationship that started out as a real friendship, and that can be a sad story. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_05 2:26

Thinking about thinking about it like that, I think one of the the most, like the dopest experience I've had was somebody called me. I think I might have mentioned them, I don't know if I mentioned, you know, we talk a lot, whatever. But somebody called me and they was going through it. They was at a songwriting camp in Houston, but didn't have like a lot of resources. And so they hit me up for some cheese, pretty much, which is super interesting. I don't want to say the artists whose songwriting camp they were there for, but they should not have been hitting me up for some cheese when they was at this specific artist's songwriting camp, which speaks to the inequity within the music business. Anyways.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Taylor Swift?

SPEAKER_05 3:11

Uh it wasn't Taylor Swift, but maybe like the urban equivalent. So that's all I'm saying. I don't even do not say that person's name.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

I wouldn't know it. I'm not gonna say it.

SPEAKER_05 3:20

No, I'm the urban equivalent of Taylor Swift?

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Think about it. Okay, I'll think about it. Nothing? I'll tell you offline. Anyways.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Okay, thank you. I could probably think of maybe, I don't know. I'm sure when you say it, I'll be like, oh, but I'm just not grasping. I'm just not grasping. Anyways, bro, he's I don't know that much about Taylor Swift, actually. I'm not even a Swiftie.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

Yeah, but it was the first thing you thought of. It was the first person you thought of when it comes to like that music. So I said this equivalent of urban music. Who's the first person you think of when you think of like urban music?

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Okay. Well, I'm not gonna say it.

SPEAKER_05 3:56

It's like Taylor Swift equivalent, but you you got it.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, I think I do.

SPEAKER_05 3:59

Okay, all right. You tell me offline, and I'll tell y'all next episode if she got it. Anyways, he hits me up and he he wants he was trying to see if I could send him some bread. I'm like, I don't really got no bread, but what like what's going on? He's like, hey man, you know, I'm down here at this songwriting camp, and you know, I I really just need some groceries. You know, I'm like, where you at? Yeah, he was it he wasn't in Houston proper, but he was in close proximity to Houston. I did work with a band down there, and I called the lead singer of that band to see if there was any resources that I could plug, bro, too. Long story short, ended up getting some groceries delivered to exactly where he was at. And then he screenshot like the groceries and then sent them to me. And I was like, oh, like that's what it feels like to like have a network, you know? And all of the con that went into having the connections that were able to make that happen, like I could never have planned that I had that resource to be able to press the button and get groceries delivered to somebody's car, you know, but it that's what happens when you connect.

unknown 5:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:05

You know? Um I got a question.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Ask me.

SPEAKER_05 5:09

Could you if you didn't know who Jeff Bezos was, right? And you bumped into him and y'all hit it off, and like y'all the homies, and you you make maybe like 40 grand a year, and then you kind of find out like what he he who he is and what he makes, could you continue to just be his friend without like tr trying to weasel in some type of handout or some type of opportunity or some type of like like resource?

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Totally. I think the har I thought the question you were gonna ask me is if I would want to still be his friend, and I was like, that's hard, because like if I then googled like I think he's a shithead, like to be honest. So like I don't know if I'd want to be his friend anymore. I'd be like, wow, whatever this persona is that you're showing me, I don't know if I really trust. Anyways, depends on how close we were, maybe we would talk about it, maybe we'd work it out. But yeah, as far as like trying to get something from him, um I don't I don't think I wouldn't who knows, but I don't think so.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

This the thing I don't have such a cut and clear answer to that question. That's why I asked you that question. Because I've cultivated relationships in which I have I didn't lead with I didn't even leave with making a connection. It was just who I was and who they were, we ended up connecting. But then, you know, come to find out some things come about, and it's like, oh, you know, like I I got a I got I got a guy who put me up somewhere, you know, and it put me up somewhere for a while, like, hey yeah, you could use this. You could use my my beach house or whatever, you know. And so I feel sometimes like I try to keep that relationship alive just because like he's a cool dude, but is he that cool of a dude or is he the potential for using the beach house cool kind of dude? You know? Yeah. Flip side, like I'll also find out somebody else recently uh that I'm connected to, like they, you know, pretty well off or whatever. And I just I had I have to have that conversation with myself around, like I feel it. I can't ignore the fact that I feel it. You know? And so, because like, oh, well, maybe one day he'll invite me to one of these things. Like, hey, I'm going to go backpacking for, you know, a month to do this and do that, and we're going to Europe, and uh it's like, oh shit, I ain't over like that, bro. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I don't know, maybe one day I might get a call, like, hey, bro, you want to cunt, you know? Yeah. Like I can't ignore the fact that that's the case.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:40

And so, with all that being said, is it can is it weird if you like try to like quantum leap? Maybe I'm somebody who has only ever made like 40 grand and like is is still, or maybe I'm somebody so far away from who this person is that I that I'd like to connect with, that that relationship would be be weird. And is that why people don't connect who are too far apart in lifestyle from each other?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Well, I think those are two different questions. Cause I think one of the reasons people don't connect, we live in a culture in a country, I think, where people like your lifestyle is your lifestyle, your ability to even have time to have a lifestyle outside of survival is so determined by your wealth, you know, or lack thereof. So there's those discrepancies.

SPEAKER_05 8:36

I think like I'm not gonna run into Jeff Bezos in the places I go, you know, and and you know, so that there's a lot of reasons I think is that pretty true though, because like a lot of these people that I've met because of the way there's uh we were just in a call with the co-founder of Hulu.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:54

So there's a a big opportunity for you to just end up in a space and connect with somebody that may be.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

That's yeah. I yeah, no, I know I think you're right. Although I do think Bezos is on a different, like the billionaires, I think hang out with the I feel like we have evidence for reasons that the billionaires hang out with the billionaires now.

SPEAKER_05 9:14

Bezos at Kruger the other day.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Uh you did not.

SPEAKER_05 9:17

I'm playing it was Whole Foods.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

There you go. Now I've now I believe you. I don't believe you at all. Um, yeah, I guess I I don't really, I don't, I don't know the answer to your question, but I do think you know what's interesting? When you're saying like I might want to, I might keep this person around because there could be opportunities that come up. First of all, if I found out somebody was, you know, wildly wealthy and then they invited me to their beach house, I would or like invited me to just use their beach house or like gave me some extravagant gift, I would feel more comfortable like receiving that than I might if it was somebody that um that I that didn't have that kind of wealth or whatever. Because if somebody didn't have that and they gave it to me, I'm like, I cannot, I cannot repay this.

SPEAKER_05 9:58

You know, that might make me feel really if you didn't have that kind of wealth and you offered me a beach house, I'd be like, bro, where'd you get this beach house for?

SPEAKER_01 10:06

You're like, well, I sold a kitten because I really thought you needed a vacation.

SPEAKER_05 10:11

And now you're gonna let me use your beach house. What lick did you hit?

SPEAKER_01 10:15

That's true. You that's a good point. But what I do think could happen that we actually talked about this a little bit earlier today when we were just on the phone, about this thing that I'm realizing I do when I'm in places where I feel out of place or where I feel like people have their shit together more than me, or they're like further like the times the imposter syndrome creeps in are moments that I find myself acting in a way to like, I don't know, overcome that. Like I'm gonna pretend I not I wouldn't, I don't can't, I can't imagine I would like pretend I'm wealthy or something, but it would just it would just change the way I behave, and it would be fully because of my insecurity. Not so much because I'm hoping to get this beach house, but because I'm hoping he doesn't find out what a schmuck I am or something like that, you know? And that would change the way I behave. And that is um yeah, that's I mean really a trauma response, you know.

SPEAKER_05 11:10

So very interesting. I think that has played a role into some of my relationships where I couldn't necessarily understand what was going on because we both cool and we both like vibe with each other.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

But what it was was I wasn't at the space that that person was at yet.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

In some category.

SPEAKER_05 11:35

Yeah, yeah. And we just end up, you know, not kicking it for a little bit. And then we come back and it's like, whoa, I've grown because, you know, I had to have my own evolution that allows for me to know like why I belong in these spaces. You know, because that's been a big thing too. And I I'm I'm gonna let you get into it. I know I I sidetracked. But every damn near every opportunity that I've had in life has come from somebody advocating for me. Even though there's obviously there's the competence that allows for me to maintain it and also be the person that makes a person look look good when they send it my way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

I was gonna say that there's a reason people are advocating for you. It's because of who you are.

SPEAKER_05 12:18

Yeah, but also if you didn't if they didn't know who I was, then they wouldn't be able to send it to me in the first place. And so, you know, then I've I've gone through it recently where, you know, being out here in these streets, you know, looking for opportunities, uh, sometimes can get a little tough, you know. And I thought it was gonna be like, you know, I thought it was gonna be relatively easy to at least get like an internship so I could learn some things, you know? And so I'm I'm sending resumes and I'm getting like, well, like at this point, I can smell it in the air when my email goes bing and I'm getting the email back for as a denial for something. You know, like I smell it. We uh we appreciate the fact that you inquired about, like, see, I'm not even reading the rest of this goddamn email. Anyways, though, um I I just I mean, nothing's solidified, but I kind of like finessed my own internship at a local marketing agency that's really dope uh because of the fact that like I was introduced to the guy that owns it from another friend of mine. And I remember that was one of those meetings. If you listen to a previous episode where it's like you say things or you don't say things and you think about it so much because it's like, ah, why did I say that? Or oh, why didn't I say it?

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Weird.

SPEAKER_05 13:41

So the guy that introduced me to him was like gassing on my music and like, oh, Bryce is like, he's got some really dope music. Um and I I to for the sake of anonymity, like this person was the ex-global head of marketing for a streaming service. We won't say the name of the streaming service, you you know? And so I'm like, I'm not about to be like, oh yeah, he's right, my stuff is super dope. Start with this one and listen to that one. And it's like, oh yeah, I kind of had to like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, thanks, you know, thanks, bro. You know. Um, but I beat myself up so much after that interaction, like, damn, like maybe that was an opportunity to say, like, hey, like, and really believe in my shit, you know, but I ain't wanna, anyways, forgot all about it. Saw him again at this recent conference that I went at. And when he saw me, he was like, boo, you know, like, what up, bro? Like, what's going on? And when he introduced me to the head of whatever, the head of global marketing VP, you know, I'd be having, but of like Carhart, like he he dapped him up. He was like, Yeah, this, you know, this Bryce III, he's one of the coldest musicians in Michigan. And I'm like, okay. So I guess you did listen after I left. And then we got to talking. I talked to him about some of the stuff I'm working on. He told me about some of the stuff he's working on. And um he was like, Yeah, I got this thing going on. I might, um, we might do this internship in the summertime. He was like, I don't want to offend you or nothing like that, but you know, that's, you know, that's something, you know. I'm like, offend me. You know, I'm just like itching to be in this environment. Anyways, long story short, uh kind of bugging him a little bit, like, hey, what's going on when I pull up? And so this past Tuesday was the first day I pulled up to the office. I'm at the team. And then um, you know, we're just talking a little bit about what I'm working on. It was like, well, yeah, maybe we can make something more official. And then uh, you know, and then like I'm like next week, I'm just start showing up on a weekly basis. Like, yeah, do that. You know, so created my own internship, but that came from relationship. So there's a lot of work that goes into that, but like everything, every opportunity has come from like relationship. You know?

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Yeah. Yeah. And it also goes both directions. I think part of that like relationship building is that you've you've been the catalyst for a lot of people's next step, you know. Like how many times have you connected people? How many times have you introduced somebody to somebody they could work with? And for one of them, it's like, you know, a big deal, a really big opportunity. Like I think you also do that. And that's I think where for me I need to remember that I that I do that too, because otherwise it can feel in those kind of situations like, oh man, I'm just getting handed things, and it's you know, first of all, it doesn't feel sustainable, it doesn't feel like it's mine to celebrate, and also it just yeah, it just doesn't feel good in the same way, even if it's like I feel so fortunate, I feel so like lucky, you know? Whereas like if you really like play it back like that and think about those relationships that you have, think about the that the ways you showed up for others in similar ways, like it's it's the circle of life happening, you know what I mean? Like this is how the world ideally works, you know. I think for my my my friend of me uh Jeff Bezos there, like I don't know how it works in his circles, it's quite now a little it's a little darker, but this episode is not sponsored by Amazon. Nope and not even open to it. Um, and the way that, you know, those friends with benefits, I think can feel good is when it's, you know, it's it's going in both directions, but it doesn't even have to be with the same person. You know, I feel like there's people in my life who just have had the ability to help me out in ways that I could never, you know, quote unquote repay. And also I've been that person for other people. And that's how that works. Like that's how that's that's like a beautiful part of friendship instead of uh exploitative or transactional, which I think sometimes it can it can be if we're not in that headspace of giving and receiving.

SPEAKER_05 17:47

So when you say friends with benefits, are we talking about like friends with professional and creative benefits? Uh or are we talking about friends with uh uh so I had I was on the phone last night with a friend of mine, she's from the program, and we've helped each other out in a lot of different ways, and we we're there for each other, and like that's a space that I really don't think at this very moment doesn't exist anywhere else in my life. You know, and I really appreciate that space, and it's beneficial for us to be that for each other. Also, there was a time where like we took space from each from each other because she needed to like prioritize her and the things that was going on with her family, and and I was like new in recovery, and I'm trying to like figure out like what this is and who you are for me and who I am and all this other stuff. And so, but like when when we talk about friends with benefits, every friend, everything, every friendship, every relationship has a has a benefit. Otherwise, we're not gonna show up with, you know?

SPEAKER_01 18:56

100%. Yeah. So no, I'm not talking about that level. I I'm I'm allowing that just to be like a a truth that's underneath it all. When I'm talking about friends with benefits in this way, it's the benefits are more like the stuff we've been talking about, like, oh, this introduction or this, you know, getting groceries or this, you know, free service or this um riding my helicopter or whatever the like that kind of thing. Because I think that's where there's always, you know, fear for me, anyways, of of like imbalance. But yeah, friendships being beneficial. Because also, you know, the ultim the the where where friends with benefits come from is friends that are hooking up. You know what I mean? And like you could say like that two friends could just like feel good because they're friends with each other. There's like, you know, oxytocin happening because there's a love for each other, but that's very different than like the tangible, like now the benefit the benefits like and that's beneficial, right? That love that is that is between friends. But the love that is between friends with benefits is a little bit different, which is where I'm taking that I'm taking that analogy outside of the sexual and into the transactional, if you will.

SPEAKER_05 20:06

I don't know if I've never had a friend with benefits. No?

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah, because God, I'm just the sluttiest way of saying that word that I just said because it's so clear that I did.

SPEAKER_05 20:18

No, I'm just saying, like, I don't know. It's never been like, oh, we're friends and every now and then. You know, it's like once that's defined as something that we do, like, it's it's more than friendship. You know what I'm saying? Like a lot, like every instance I was in that situation, I really fucked with that person. And then it ended up being that, but then it was like, like now I had to navigate. I gotta navigate a little bit, you know what I'm saying? Because now things have changed a little bit, and then you know, then it ends up having, we have to have like intentional conversation, and I'm just like the worst like that. So um, but I re because for for clarity's sake, you know. And hey, who knows? Who do you know who knows how the world opens up? But that hasn't been my experience thus far. And I think I want to dig in a bit around the line that you keep speaking of. Like when can the like when can the line be crossed?

SPEAKER_01 21:21

From benefits, you know, that feel relational, like friendship-based versus benefits that are now like transactional or exploitative of the friendship.

SPEAKER_05 21:31

I used to have a a friend, well, he wasn't really a friend. He was like the little brother of like a a person that I looked up to, but he wasn't really your friend. This is just how the neighborhood goes, guys. But uh he would show up all the time with like bottles, you know what I'm saying? So he'll show up at like 7 a.m. It's like, bro, it's like 9 a.m. Yeah, I got the patron, I got the patron, what's going on? I got the patron. I'm like, all right, bro, like I'm I'm okay, cool. You can hang out, you know. But then And you know, it will always and I will always feel weird about the fact that like he always brought something. He was always bringing something over. You know, and and sure enough, there was always a n a time where it's like, oh, you gonna take me to the crib? Remember, I live like eight cities away. You were all like, no, I didn't ask you to be here. Why are you here? You know, I don't even it's too early to drink. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:22

And so like the people that know that they bring this benefit and wave it and hang it over your head in a way that's like, hey man, this is It's very conditional. Yeah, I'm not necessarily choosing the flavor of this relationship and I don't like it. You know?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:43

Like I've had people like I've had people tell me about instances in which like people put them in position and they brought brought that shit up later. You know? Um, yeah, yeah, it's not it's not a nice feeling.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

That's manipulation. That's shitty. Yeah. I have had my experience with the line being crossed was um interesting, because now I'm like questioning my own definition of the line because this wasn't quite as like tangible of like stuff, but it was very like I was the I was like the therapist. I mean, for lack of a better word, like this person would go through a big thing and then reach out and just be like, here, fix this for me, you know, like help me with this. And I would just, you know, and in the beginning of the friendship, I was happy, I was like, you know, I got you, you know, and um and felt, you know, one of my love languages, I guess, is being needed and being someone that people, you know, trust and like can be vulnerable with and like, you know, and then appreciate it when I'm able to be there for him so uh for them. So like those are all the things that were like happening in the beginning that were just like my little, you know, whatever, oxytocin, serotonin and dopamine were like bing bing bing bing, you know what I mean? Like I am so important and needed in this person's life. I have helped. And then, you know, I found that in that same relationship, if I went to that same person with even a paper cut kind of problem, you know what I mean? It would just be very dismissed, very coldly um, you know, recep received. And until, you know, and and often there was a lot of coldness in general until the next time they needed, you know, uh somewhat like a gentle landing. And it got to the point that I was like, I can't, I can't just carry all this anymore. This this is very uneven. Like this is I'm I'm I'm giving in a way that used to feel really good, but now it feels like I'm like betraying myself. You know what I mean? It's just like it's it's now it doesn't even feel real when I'm showing up for you because I'm kind of like resentful of it and and the conversation was like to to even be like, hey, this is how I'm feeling. That was also received very coldly. And um yeah, so that yeah, that was shitty. That was a that was a shitty feeling.

SPEAKER_05 25:03

My mom is a very giving person, and she got a lot of people like that in her life where you know, when it's when they going through it, you know, they'll come down and and she'll talk with them. But you know, when not going through it, you they know where to be found. And when she going through it, she feels like she's alone, you know? Yeah. So we talk often about that. Also, you wanna know something interesting? There was a time with you and I where I pulled back on calling you, like this was early in our relationship, like I pulled back on calling you with my issues or whatever it is that I was working through, because I think like one of the earliest things that we connected on was like working through things. And I I tended to be the one who was I'm happy to work through my shit with somebody who's willing to work through it with me. But what I noticed was that you didn't express, you didn't, you didn't display a lot of vulnerability in the beginning with allowing me to show up for you. And so I started feeling like every time I'm on the phone with you, I felt like like, you know, it was you, like, oh, you you know what I'm saying? And it's like, I need to so remember when I started calling you just to like call you and say, hey, you know, or like call you and tell you like something good? Because I had like I had to fuck that pattern up because I I wanted one early on for us to know that like this is not gonna be our relationship, you you know, or else there there's that it it lacks sustainability. Two, I kinda also wanted to encourage or at least I think we've had like explicit conversations around like hey I think possibly you've been on the podcast. Oh yeah, probably, probably. Like you can call me. You like you can call me if you're going if you're going through it. You can call me if you're not going through it. You're like you just yeah, we had, I don't know if it was this podcast, it might have been this podcast, but we had that conversation around checking on versus checking in. You know, and I remember like he was like, I don't like it when people check up on me because like there comes from I come from a space where like people would check up on me because I was the one to be checked up on. And it's like, ah, not that's not what this is. This is like, hey, reminding you that I love you and I care about you. Okay, bye. You know? Um, and that means a lot in the bank account of relationship building, you know, at least for me. You know, so yeah, and then and I guess that's an instance of actively and intentionally shaping up a relationship. So if there's a Jeff Bezos equivalent.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

My gosh.

SPEAKER_05 27:43

No, but if there's a Jeff Bezos equivalent, and you, you know, he's just always, you know, buying my Amazon Kirk, and it's like, all right, Jeff, you know, I I gotta let you know, man. Like, I really appreciate you buying my Amazon Kirk, you know, but you gotta let me show up for you sometimes. You know, that's how this relationship is gonna work. And then just being super open and honest about, you know, what it is that I need and also what it is that I can sense, and maybe let me know if what I'm sensing is wrong. But like, I think it's important to like have that conversation and be intentional around it. Otherwise, one of us is gonna feel weird and one of us gonna feel weird in private, and then that's just gonna end up in the blowing up of everything that we're building together.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Yeah. Yeah. You know what's funny? I think when we met, it was shortly after that it happened with me. So I think I was in a little bit of a extra guarded probably place. Um trying to think about the timeline.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

What happened with you? The the situation you were just talking about?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Yeah, yeah. Um and yeah, I think it did. I think it was right around then because you know, the thing that was the most hurtful was not that they were coming to me as much as they were, because I like I s like like you said, I really like that. I want you know, I want that that vulnerability is just, you know, you're right. If you're the one being vulnerable and you're not getting it back, that's shitty. But I think what really kind of like shifted me in the in that time um was being vulnerable and being met with with coldness, with like, you know, and like so that that just it it that took a little while to thaw, I think, for me, and like not feel quite so scary. Um and to like let people in at all, I think.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

And salute to you for like doing that work and letting somebody in. I mean, because I could, you know, I could have been a weirdo too, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

You're kind of a weirdo, but that's what I love about you.

SPEAKER_05 29:33

I won't deny that, but I I do have I think at that point in my life too, I was at a point to where I had quite a bit of not quite a bit, but quite a few relationships in which I was very aware that I was taking up a lot of the space. You know, and w I wanted to be a better friend and it like I was going in a transition. I was in transition f for that being like that being the reward for me in friendship is is learning how to be there for people. And okay, I I got a lot. If you give me the mic, I'm gonna fucking talk. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna take advantage of it. But it's also it also just feels real when I know that we both got skin in the game. You holding space for me, I'm holding space for you. Therefore, when I share something with you, you know, like I'm taking up the space. So this is very important to take up the space with.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

And it's kind of a thing where it's like, you know, you share things with me that's like encouraged me to like share things with you. And I've shared things with you that's encouraged you to share things with me. And that's kind of just like what builds the relationship in a way that, like, oh, this is something that could like, we could literally be. Well, I ain't gonna we're knocking wood. I was gonna say at each at each other's funerals, I I ain't gonna go that dark with it, but too late.

SPEAKER_04 30:56

I remember I remember the times when Bryce used to make that voice on the podcast as what I actually sound like now.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

I don't think you're gonna sound like that. That's like if a Muppet gets old. Like the Sesame Street senior living.

SPEAKER_05 31:12

By the way, if you do attend my funeral, I want Tamin Pala's uh Apocalypse Dreams to be played. So, you know, just just a note in case nobody else I've told that is there.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Apocalypse dreams. Got it. I want the Whalen Jennies version of Wildflowers, which is a Tom Petty song, but the whale and Jennies did it better. Okay and how cool to like have like the whole burial situation have it be the song being sung as you belong among the wildflowers, because literally I'm about to be among the wildflowers. I'm about to become wildflowers.

SPEAKER_05 31:51

There's the part at the end of Apocalypse Dreams where he sings everything's changing no matter how you do your hair.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Perspective, respect. We're gonna have to keep working on this friendship because I haven't ever told anybody what music I want played at my funeral. So you're gonna have to. Well, now is that's a benefit of this friendship.

SPEAKER_05 32:15

It's literally documented. I believe in friends with benefits to kind of just round it out. I believe that all friendships have benefits. I think it's important to have an intentional conversation around what we contribute as well as what we get from a a relationship. And and I was gonna say, and never put up with uncomfortability. But I mean, I think it's important to be uncomfortable and start the conversation. But then if it gets kind of weird, it's like, yo, bro, like you can't just keep putting a thousand dollars in my mailbox. I mean, I love you and shit, but you know, I can't do that for you. Maybe let it go on for long enough for you to be able to retire for a year and then bring it up like I can't do this no more. You know, uh, but that's not sustainable, my friends.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Is this a true story? Has this happened to you?

SPEAKER_05 33:00

I don't wish.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

It's like, man, I gotta move to Detroit, make some new friends. I might change my answer now.

SPEAKER_05 33:09

You know, um uh the where we met. We met in Vegas and we we gave a talk on stage. When I got off stage, somebody came up to me, and long story short, she is the reason that uh I was able to fly out to the Bay Area and go to a silent meditation retreat. And she let me like, she like I um house sat for her because she wasn't there, she was actually out of town, so I didn't even really get to kick it with her when I was there, but I house sat with her. Well, I house sat her house with other friends of hers that didn't season the salmon that they cooked, which was really interesting. But it, you know, you never know, you never know. You know, I think for me it's important for me to prioritize like the connection part and alignment part. If I wasn't working where I was working, delivering a talk on stage at a Vegas conference in relation to what resonates with my heart, seeing things that were coming from my spirit, I would have never connected with this person that, you know, actually, the person who gave me the beach house too, I met him at a conference too. I need to start going to more conferences, I think is the Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

But here's my question. Are these friends? Would you consider these friends?

SPEAKER_05 34:30

Kev, she, yeah. So Kev, hmm, I don't think I got to know her like that. But I I love her heart.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:39

Uh and she's of sh she felt more like, she feels more like a benefactor than a friend. Because I haven't gotten to know her, but she put me in a position to have an experience that changed me and grew me into somebody who now I know that I want to show up for somebody else like that.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:55

You know, I've reached out to her, you know, I know there was some wildfires a while back, and I reached out to her to make sure she was safe because she stayed in the bay. Um, but it's not like we talk. You even though we never got an opportunity to really, really connect. But she, you know, she put me in position to cultivate my spirit. She put me in a position to have an experience to where when somebody talks about that area, I got stories. You know. Um, and and the other guy, I would say that we friends. I would say we friends. I would say we friends. I would say that he's a busy guy. Um, but if he's around, you're gonna let me know. Last time I text him, you sent me pictures of the Northern Lights talking about, hey, you gotta come visit. I'm like, where are you?

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Like Iceland or something?

SPEAKER_05 35:38

I'm Alaska now. I'm like, okay, cool. You live there? Like, what the fuck is happening? You know? So, but I had to, you know, like, but yeah, he he's a friend. He's a friend.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, that's cool. Interesting. The variety of types of relationships we've talked about just in this episode, but like across this podcast, it's it's cool. And they all matter. Like, I just, you know, we we we think the friendship in one way, and like whether it's a you know, one-on-one or like a friend group or whatever, but like God, think of all the people that you've met and had some kind of impact on, and you're only just getting started.

SPEAKER_05 36:16

Mm-hmm. And we're gonna continue to benefit and contribute along the way.

unknown 36:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:22

With that being said, you've all made it pretty far into this episode. So that must mean that you're our friends. And you know what's a benefit of our friendship? A benefit of our friendship is the access to our Sub Stack. So why don't you join our Substack? Come catch us over uh uh over there. We go live over there every now and then. We want to continue to talk to you all and cultivate a relationship with you all. Um, leave us uh a rating if this conversation was at all unique or contributed to anything that you care about. And we will catch you on the next episode of the Friend Lab.

SPEAKER_04 36:55

See ya.