EP 15 Temptation, Power, and Narcissism: When Love Becomes Control

In this powerful episode of Page2Pulse, host Allyson Collins is joined by social worker Katie Wayte to unpack Temptation: Confessions of a Marriage Counselor by Tyler Perry. Together, they explore the emotional and psychological layers beneath the film’s storyline, including manipulation, power dynamics, and the impact of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Katie offers professional insight into the traits of narcissistic personalities—particularly the malignant narcissist—and how these behaviors show up in relationships. This episode challenges listeners to recognize red flags, understand vulnerability, and redefine what healthy love truly looks like.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Page to Pulse. I'm your host, Allison Collins. On today's episode, we're going to be talking about the emotionally charged film Temptations, Confessions of a Marriage Counselor by Tyler Perry, a story that explores desire, betrayal, power, and ultimately consequences. Joining me today is my guest, Katie Waite, a social worker who has joined us before. Welcome to the show. Hello. Welcome back. Thank you again for joining us on Page2Post. Well, let's just go ahead and get started. Let's talk about this film. You know, you have a film that deals with relationships and fidelity, manipulation, emotional control. For listeners who may not have seen the film, can you briefly summarize the uh storyline and themes of the film?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

So the story is really it really follows um a woman named Judith. She uh is married to a man named Bryce. He's a pharmacist. Um, they live together in kind of an apartment. She works for a matchmaking agency. Um they've kind of been uh known each other their whole life, like they were meant to be kind of thing. Um but Judith kind of wants more, and you see that in the film. And then in comes this guy, Harley, who um kind of represents what Judith is craving, basically. Um and he's intense, he uh focuses on uh Judith real quick, um begins pursuing her. Um, and over time Judith becomes emotionally entangled with him and ultimately cheats on Bryce, her husband. Um and the story kind of navigates her journey through infidelity, her resolve, how it affects not only her and her relationship with Bryce, but also her other relationships around her, like her relationship with her mother. Um but it also highlights the kind of struggle of abuse in a relationship. Um our last podcast, we kind of talked about love bombing. This film is a good example of that love bombing um again. Um yeah, it just kind of follows Judith and her journey through this kind of intense situation.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

That it is definitely uh very intense. But what makes this film more this more than just a film about cheating or temptation?

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Um it kind of shows the psychological side to the story, it shows Judith's vulnerability, um power, it shows uh manipulation, how a powerful man can be manipulative because of his power. Um it reflects on how Judith craving validation and more opportunity in both her um emotional relationship as well as her work life leads to her becoming kind of attached to this idealistic man kind of thing. He comes in and he shows her exactly what she wants. He's wealthy and he's put together and he brings chaos, I guess is the best way to say it, spontaneousness into her life, and um that's kind of what she was craving.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

So her so her emotional vulnerabilities made her more susceptible to this type of manipulation, then, right? Okay, let's talk about the business owner character, Harley. He's charismatic, wealthy, and intense. And from a clinical perspective, what stands out about his behavior?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

So, like I said before, that love bombing, Harley. Um he's overwhelming. He's in Judith's face, he's showing her all kinds of attention, giving her gifts. There's this one point in the film where Judith gets hurt while they're running together, and he swoops her up in her arms and into his arms and carries her back to his house, and he is for all intents and purposes trying to be her knight in shining armor. And then touching on that, you know, he's swooping her into his arms, this woman who is married and in a relationship. He's very intense and possessive over her. He you see the interaction when Harley and Bryce first meet, and he's kind of staring Bryce down like he's trying to be bigger in a way. He um he wants to be seen as the only one that Judith sees.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Um, and then they're also his power imbalance. Like I said, Judith is feeling this vulnerability, she's wanting more, she's craving more, and he is that. So he kind of uses that as a way to keep her in. You know, he sees, oh, she wants this, let's go on a shopping spree, let's get you those shoes, let's get you that dress.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Yeah. Um, yeah. So he kind of reels her in to his world. Yeah. Now I I know we discussed narcissistic personality disorder on the previous episode. Uh, can you explain the DSM five definition of narcissistic personality disorder?

SPEAKER_00 6:10

According to the DSM V, sorry, narcissistic personality disorder is defined as a persuasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, or lack of empathy, beginning at early adulthood and present across many contexts. Um they for clinical diagnosis, uh a narcissistic person must display five out of the following nine criteria. Um a grandiose self of sense of self-importance. So you're big, you're better than everybody else, you are the most important person in every single room you walk into. Um kind of like preoccupation, preoccupation with fantasies of success, power, beauty, or ideal love. You only crave the best things because that's again what you feel like you deserve. Um the sense that they're special and should only associate with special or high status people. You know, I'm better than these people over here. So let me only associate with the people who I feel like are where I'm at. You know, let me not show any courtesy towards people who I feel like are underneath me. I don't see them, they're not there. Um that need for admiration, they have an excessive need for admiration, a sense of entitlement, interpersonally exploitative behavior. That's where um once they hook you in, they start exploiting your vulnerabilities and your what they would say as false, but it's just you um envious of others or belief that others envy them. Oh, they just don't like me because they're jealous of me. They want what I uh want to be like me. Um, and then finally, arrogance or belief that, you know, the self-righteous belief that I am better. Nobody can be better than me. I am the best that there is.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Um yeah. Thank you for sharing those hallmark traits that uh would make us more aware of what to look for when it comes to uh a person that exemplifies narcissistic behavior. Would you say that Harley exhibits traits consistent with narcissistic personality personality disorder? Why or why not?

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Um yes, I I would say so. Um I would say he has that wealth and that power and that belief that he can get whatever or whoever he wants. Um hence his intense and non-wavering pursuit of Judas throughout the movie. Um his exploitive behavior, again, pursuing Judith, despite knowing that she's married, and then using her vulnerabilities as a way to manipulate her into forming this attachment with her. Um lack of empathy. He does not care about how his actions are affecting not only Judith, but then her relationship with Judith's husband and her relationship with Judith's mother.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

It showed it touches a lot, the movie touches a lot about how her relationship with Harley really affects her relationship with her mother. Um and I feel like that can be overlooked most times, like they don't think about family effects. Um, so I really enjoyed how the movie touched on that. Um and then control. He what he has acting as though he controls Judith, telling her she needs to prioritize him and his commitments and what they're doing together and not her her marriage or her family or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

So, what are the main types of narcissists people encounter? I would say like I know we talked about the malignant narcissist as one of them from last time we were talking about that. And you know, me and the uh malignant narcissist, I remember you talked about um malignant narcissists combines narcissism with antisocial traits and manipulation and uh lack of empathy, and it sounds like the person that you're talking about is more of what would you say a malignant narcissist?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah, I would say a malignant narcissist or maybe even a grandiose narcissist, kind of a cross between the two. Okay, he uh he come he has the combination, he's the lack of empathy and controlling from the malignant narcissist, but he also he has that extreme sense of self-importance. Okay, that need to always have Judith's attention, not wanting to share Judith's attention, needing Judith to be on his side, that they are like an unwaver, he she needs to be a part of him as an unwavering unit kind of thing. But I feel like he's a bit of a mix between the two.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah. Um, what about are there any other types of narcissists? Like, I I don't know if there's you know any other ones that you might want to expound on that you can talk about. But you just mentioned about the grandiose, you talked about the malignant narcissists as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

There's also um what is a vulnerable narcissist or a covert narcissist?

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

They um they come out as insecure, shy, and sensitive, that um they're just this misunderstood or extremely unappreciated person, um, very sensitive to like criticism is always the victim, is a sense of they are always made to be in the wrong kind of um so this behavior kind of comes with guilt tripping, passive-aggressive comments, emotional manipulation, and a constant need for reinsurance. Um so they they seem quiet and wounded and misunderstood, but really they're calculated and they're observant and they're trying to find ways in which they can sink their claws into your empathetic side and guilt trip you and to staying with them, doing things for them, being with them kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

And you know, it seems like it seems like that um Judith becomes a different person under his control. What manipulation tactics does Harley use to gain control over Judith?

SPEAKER_00 13:27

He well, he buys her things first and foremost. He takes her on trips, they went to New Orleans together. Um, at the beginning of the movie, you see Harley in what I would say normal business, casual clothes and shoes. And while she does have pressure from her one coworker to up her style, she really doesn't think about it until she's deep in her entanglement with Harley, and he's the one buying her these things. And they're going to clubs and they're out partying, and he's basically wowing her. He's like I said, love bombing her, overwhelming her with attention and gifts and promises of things that he can give her so that she feels like she has everything she needs right there. I mean, at the one point in the movie, she tells Bryce, like, I'm not coming home, I don't need anything from there. I have everything I need right here, and that's well and deep after her uh relationship with Harley has been like started. This is when Bryce knows what's going on, and he's like trying to get her to come home, and she's she's stuck. She feels like she doesn't need to go anywhere because he can show he can give her everything basically.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Wow. So Harley uses love bombing as a tactic to remove her, and then he uses his financial and his financial power and influence to also um, and he seems to, and then you see the difference in her relationships with her mother, her husband, and it's like he's emotionally isolating her as well. So it's um a lot of controlling tactics that he's doing in in the sense, and probably even gaslighting her as well to gain control over Judith. So yeah, that you know, and this is just typical behavior of a person who's a narcissist that they will do. And we talked about in the previous episode how they will use um, they will try to control the person who's being victimized by isolating them from their family and friends so that they can have the total control over them. And that's something that is seen in the movie with Harley overdo this. Let's talk about power dynamics. How does Harley use his status, wealth, and influence as tools of control? So you you mentioned already about the the um as far as the um buying her things, buying her material things. Uh, is there any other ways that he uses that when it comes to her company and terms of how he uses um his status, wealth, and influence as tools of control?

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Well, when Harley comes in, we see him coming in as a possible partner for the company Judith is working with. Judith is decided to work closely with him as uh part of figuring out a questionnaire for the matchmaking site that they're working on.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

So he comes in as a possible partner, willing to put down a lot of money. So that right there puts him as someone who is of power, and then he appears very charming, and he uses that charm constantly with Judas. Every time they're around, he kicks it up another notch. Um so much to the point that he pulls out of the business deal with the original company and is going to buy Judas her own company.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

So it went further than just buying her gifts and nice things, taking her to nice places. He made it to a point where he was funding her work, he became her boss. He like made himself the central point in her life. He they she started staying with him and not with Bryce. She basically like went stopped contacting her mother at one point, um, disrespecting her mother, her religion, all that. She like um isolated herself from her work peers, like her one coworker. They were, I wouldn't say they were friends, but they seemed quite close in the movie. Isolated herself from that person. Um, he just used his money and his power to become like the central person in her life, the only person in her life.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

And even with her children, you know, she becomes very separate from them because this man is having such control over her that she's not even spending time with her children. She's staying out all throughout the night, not coming home. And kids are wondering, like, what's going on with their mom and not coming home? And the mother uh just totally separated her life from her family, and Judith just becomes so entangled that she can't even see her way out of this relationship. And she begins to experience a major shift in identity throughout the film. So, how do narcissistic relationships often cause someone to lose their sense of self?

SPEAKER_00 18:58

By exploiting on someone's vulnerabilities and emotions like that, and creating this false sense of reality for them. You know, you're giving them exactly what they want without a without giving them a chance to think about the consequences of the decisions that they're making, that it starts to change who they are at their core. You know, she stopped thinking about how this would affect her and her family. She stopped thinking about how this would uh uh things would affect her her health. Like she was going out every night, she was drinking, she was partying, she stopped caring about her work. Like it just at the beginning of the movie, at the beginning of a movie, we see a very devoted, loving woman to her wife, to her family. I mean, to her husband, to her family, to her mother. And by the end of the movie, we see it's like a complete 180. She doesn't care about her marriage, she lets Bryce throw her mother to the floor, she hasn't seen her children, like it's it's almost shocking the way she could have been a completely different person.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah. In your opinion, was there a turning point where Judah could have safely exited the relationship? And what signs did she miss?

SPEAKER_00 20:28

When the accident happened, when they were running, and she ran into the guy on the bike, and you know, before he swooped her into her arms and ran her off to get help, he grabbed the gentleman riding the bike by his shirt and he shook him. And you need to apologize, you need to apologize, you need to watch where you're going. Got really aggressive with him really quick in his face. Another one I would say would be his lack of concern for her personal space as well as her relationship. You know, he doesn't care that she's in a relationship. At one point, when they first became like intimately entangled, she was telling him to get off of her.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

She told him no, and he kind of just ignored that and continued on. And um I think that put her in a place of feeling like, well, now I've done it, so there's no reason why I can't continue.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

And now, what role does accountability play at the end of the film? And how can viewers of the film balance empathy for Judith while still recognizing her choices?

SPEAKER_00 21:43

At the end of the film, we find out it's like um a little plot twist that Karen, the junk the woman that Bryce has been working with at the pharmacy, is Harley's ex and had contracted an STI from Harley, an STI that Harley. Did not tell Judith about. And throughout the movie, we see Judith being both intimate with Harley and her husband Bryce, meaning, therefore, not only Judith can now have it, Bryce could have it too.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

We see um kind of this flash forward in time to Judith taking accountability. She did contract STI, but she, you know, she's medicated. And I think it she uses it as like a learning moment. Like it could have turned out way worse than what it was than when somebody stepped in to finally make her see and get her out.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah, because she tests as positive for HIV. Yes. And from your perspective, what is the most important lessons viewers should take away from temptations? Confession of a marriage counselor when it comes to recognizing unhealthy love versus the uh true healthy partnership.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

First off, I would say that wanting more and desiring more in your relationship is normal. It's normal to want more for you and your partner, and that's where you guys together work for it. I feel like knowing when someone is coming in and yes, treating you how you want to be treated, maybe, and giving you these things, but also while exhibiting these behaviors, it's important to recognize these behaviors and not to overshadow them or look past them or you know, give them the benefit of the doubt, it was just one time. Like it's if it's consistent patterns of behaviors, it's not just one time, it's them slowly losing control of their facade. Um I would say that knowing who to trust, not isolating yourself from not only like an example of this movie, your husband, but also your family, your mother. Don't isolate yourself from those people who kind of have a sense of who you are and can guide you back to where you need to be in the path that you're on. Um I think you know, recognizing when manipulation is manipulation and not um something when what's the word I'm looking for? When it's not charming, when he's not showing you, putting on a facade when he's actively using your vulnerabilities and your quote-unquote weak points to get what he wants from you.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

So this conversation reminds us that what starts as being a very attractive or an opportunity can sometimes mass danger emotional uh consequences for us, uh, or even physical consequences for us. Um temptation isn't just about choices, it's about understanding the people we allow into our lives and recognizing the difference between love and control. Thank you so much, Katie, for joining us again on Page to Post. We enjoy having you on the show and getting your perspective.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

And to our listeners, protect your trust, protect your peace, protect in and trust your instincts and never ignore the red flags. Yes. This is Page to Post. I'm Allison Collins until next time.