High Desert Insiders
This podcast dives deep into the specific laws, rules, and regulations that shape daily life in California's high desert communities. From zoning changes and water rights debates to city council motions, "The Local Ordinance" translates complex local governance into accessible, engaging conversations.
High Desert Insiders
A Resident Calls Out Deficits, Demands Transparency, And Maps A Better Path For The High Desert - David Dencker
Decisions that shape your street, your taxes, and your sleep shouldn’t happen in the shadows. We sit down with David, a 30-year High Desert resident, to unpack Apple Valley’s most pressing fault lines: budgets that appear “balanced” by tapping reserves, a sales tax measure that promised more deputies, and a proposed truck and trailer facility that could transform a quiet neighborhood’s nights into a logistics zone.
We get specific about how the town communicates deficits, what Measure P actually funds, and why oversight only works when it’s visibly independent. David doesn’t mince words about the “good old boy” dynamics that erode trust, the difference between recurring revenue and one-time fixes, and the true cost of keeping loss-making amenities afloat while roads crumble. We explore pragmatic reforms: merit-based executive incentives, zero-based budgeting, plain-English financial dashboards, and public selection of oversight members—livestreamed and randomized—to eliminate favoritism.
Growth isn’t the enemy; blind siting is. We dig into smarter locations for industrial uses along the I-15 corridor, environmental safeguards like fuel containment and noise buffers, and how to make development pay its way through impact fees and enforceable performance bonds. The playbook for rebuilding trust starts with better process: early outreach, accessible summaries, bilingual materials, and regular “money maps” that show where tax dollars come from and where they go. Most of all, we make the case for everyday residents—truckers, shop owners, parents—bringing their voice to council meetings and ballot boxes so future decisions reflect community priorities, not insider convenience.
If you care about transparent government, responsible budgets, public safety, fair oversight, and development that fits, this conversation gives you the tools to get involved and the questions to ask. Subscribe, share with a neighbor, and leave a review telling us the first change you want to see. Your voice can reset the standard for accountability in the High Desert.
Apple Valley Agenda’s: https://applevalley.org/government/meetings-and-agendas/
Apple Valley TV: https://applevalley.tv/internetchannel/
Hey there, Apple Valley. Are you tired of feeling like decisions are being made for you instead of with you? Do you ever wonder what the town council is actually voting on? Or why that new development is suddenly popping up next to your favorite spot? Welcome to the High Desert Insiders, a podcast that's dedicated to pulling back the curtain on our local government and the issues that truly matter right here in the High Desert. I'm your host, Scott, and every week we're diving deep into the heart of high desert politics. We're not here for the drama, we're here for the discussion. We'll sit down with people making rules, from the town manager to council members, and we'll talk directly to our neighbors on the ground about things like water conservation and the health of the Mojave River, the latest on economic development on the I-15 corridor, and how our public safety services are meeting the needs of our growing community. This is where your voice gets heard, your questions get answers, and we will all become a little bit more informed and engaged residents of the High Desert. So whether you're passing by the iconic Apple Valley Golf Course or waiting for the light on Bear Valley Road, tune in. Let's get the real story. Let's make a difference. The High Desert Insiders starts right now.
SPEAKER_02:So welcome, David, to the uh to the podcast here. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. How are you? Oh, doing just dandy, dandy. So you are uh Apple Valley resident uh for a number of years, about 15, 16 years. You've been up here in the high desert, though, for just over 30, is that correct? That's correct. Sweet. So, and I know you have been uh involved in a lot of in a couple of the local issues recently, uh especially at the last town council meeting. So um kind of wanted to get your thoughts on on the city, if that is all right with you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, it's great.
SPEAKER_02:So um, so if you had to distill like the current atmosphere of Apple Valley, like into a word or a phrase, you know, politically, socially, or economically, um, do you know what what would it be and why? And do you think how has that changed over the last five to ten years?
SPEAKER_00:I would describe it as politically, and I kind of think I would I would um go on with that saying that people are skeptical and have no trust of our local politicians. And the reason I say that, and it started for me back in 2020 when they tried to put measure O on the ballot and raise our taxes.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I was against that. I I'm never uh for more taxes, no matter what. So I started kind of poking my nose around at that time, and then that's when I started finding out that the town was in a deficit, and I'm like, it is, and I was really not aware of that. I mean, I've lived in this town since 2009, and that was 2020, and I'm like, we're in a deficit? What? You know, and I and I and I heard it or I read it on like the daily press. Yeah, and so then I started kind of perking up and listening and paying attention, and then that's when I started talking to other people, and oh yeah, the town is they do this, they do that, you know, we're in a deficit, and and so I think it's I think it's a politically, you know, I think that's the word of the day, let's say, in the town, is political and there's no trust. They did they're just not going in the right direction with well, definitely with the finances.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, 100%. Yeah, and it just gets worse worse with major P or measure, measure P, which we'll talk about in a second for sure. But yeah, I'm always a fan, kind of like you, of like, why are we adding taxes when we can just cut spending? Because I guarantee there's some fat somewhere, you know. Exactly. Um, and I know if you saw um Carrie uh posted a few things about talking with uh council member Carrie Leon. Um did you see those comments recently at all? Those were my comments. Or were those yours? Okay. Yes. Sorry, I I get them confused, get people confused sometimes. But any any take so for those of you who haven't seen the posts, basically over the last nine years, and correct me if I'm if I'm wrong, sir, is that basically the the revenue coming in has been lower than the spending. So instead of making a balanced budget, they they do a balanced budget by taking from the general fund. Is that is that kind of the gist of what I got?
SPEAKER_00:That is the gist. And that those Facebook posts all stemmed around a question that I asked her on her Facebook, and it's just blown up from there because you know, I've been digging around and doesn't make sense to me, put it that way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I just don't understand the and I I you know I tried to walk into a conversation with her, you know, like level-headed, like take it with a grain of salt and like, you know, and have the best at you know, best outlook possible. But then she just, you know, they continue to prove me wrong. And and I think with a lot of small town politics, too, people aren't familiar, you know, and they they they look at the national scale, right? And they see left versus right. And I'm not saying like one is better than the other, um, you know, but just in general, they see that a division where it's not really like conservative versus liberal on a small town, it's just basics. You know, we can't even figure out the basics of like a balanced budget.
SPEAKER_00:Well, correct. And and these town council sheets are nonpartisan, but so it shouldn't matter left versus right. But what I what bothers me is, and according like you saw those Facebook posts, they can't balance the budget. As far as I'm concerned, is deceptiveness because in the daily press and in their resolution, the resolution 2024-23, I think that's the number of it, they all voted and this and the mayor signed it and they stated exactly what the daily press had printed, that they've been in a deficit since 2016, and they list the amount of each deficit. I mean, in the millions every year. Maybe one year was 900,000, but every year several million dollars. So when you know, we're under the impression that we're in a deficit because they're telling us that, yet she tells me on Facebook we've been able to balance the budget year after year by using the town's fund, which still contains several million dollars. So my response to her was why are you saying we're in a deficit if the if the budget's balanced? It doesn't make sense. It's either you either have a uh balanced budget, a deficit, or a surplus. You can't have them all. You can't you can't just use semantics and you can't just throw different words in there depending on who you're talking to. So I said, if you guys put a press release out that we're in a deficit, yet we were no longer in a deficit because you uh righted the ship by using reserves, then you should have said exactly that.
SPEAKER_02:But she won't get re-elected if she says that.
SPEAKER_00:Well, right. And so it's either they're being dishonest, they're being deceptive, or there's just a straight non-transparency because they're not if they're gonna say, hey, listen, town, we have been in deficit, but we've been able to balance the budget each year by pulling from our reserve fund, they never mentioned that in any way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER_02:Right. That'd be completely different because they're being honest, at least.
SPEAKER_00:Because they'd be honest. That's why I'm so like, what the heck did you say? And I'm I'm on it because it's not honest. It's it's it's not transparent, and the the town people continue to get bamboozled by the people who've been in office for an average of 13 years with the mayor being around since 2002. It's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, by the way, just a quick note um is I I was looking up his information and other people on the town councils, and I saw a picture, uh, a very interesting picture of Scott Nassif, right? Um, he was with Chet Hit, um, and I think it was Kurt Emmick. Do you know what they're about to get on? A private jet to fly to uh Chet's new hotel out uh on the river.
SPEAKER_00:And see, and you know something, Scott? That's exactly the kind of things I'm trying to put out there is they're all connected. They've all the good old boys been around for year after year. They all either are currently or past business owners in the town. Carrie Leon had a fundraiser, I think, when she was running for mayor at the HIT property.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:And the special guest was the Saborino County Sheriff, and then that hit is the same guy who just did a fundraiser recently for Chad Bianco, who's running for governor. So yeah, it's like a it's like a deep web of who's connected and who knows who, and they just keep rubbing elbows and running things the way they want and not caring about what the townspeople want.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that's and that's ridiculous. If you ask me, that's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, I mean, and to kind of go a little out of order here, so so with that, this ties in uh with the election coming up, and you know, it it looks like I think all but one seat is up for re-election, if I'm not mistaken. Um I think two seats.
SPEAKER_00:I think two seats. I think I think district one and uh I think it's Cusack seat is is good till 2028, and also Bishop's seat is good till 2028.
SPEAKER_02:I'd heard bishop, so I didn't know Kurt. Okay. Well, what so what do you see with that election coming up as the most important like uh mandate or thing that voters are gonna be hoping to see uh send? Sorry, mandate the voters are gonna be hoping to send to the next governing body. And what kind of along with that, what kind of candidates, issues, things like that, do you believe will resonate most strongly with the uh Apple Valley residents this uh this cycle?
SPEAKER_00:My opinion is I hope we can get enough residents to pay attention because I think residents don't pay attention. They just go vote because they feel like it's their duty. They know nothing about the candidates, they see a name they're familiar with, so they just vote for that person because they're not aware about the deficit or the or the you know the lies. I call, let's say, I'll call it like it is lies, dishonesty, whatever you want to say. So the normal resident just goes, they cast their vote, they they see names they're familiar with, they look, and maybe they say, Oh, I've seen a thousand of these signs around town, I'll vote for that person. And what they really know, they need to know, they need to know what's really going on. And I think we need like a regular Joe on the council, not someone who's connected, not one of the good old boys. Someone on my Facebook post said, No one stays in town politics for 20 years unless there's a benefit to them.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm almost like a guy, like I used to talk about the the town manager, how he made such a big salary. I said, why don't they put him on a on a per diem or kind of like a merit-based, like, you know what? If the town's in doing good, you get this much. If the town's in a deficit, you get this much. It's gonna make him work harder to do the right thing because it's gonna affect his paycheck. If he knows, hey, I'm gonna make 20,000 a month, whether we're good or bad, he could be lazy and he could just stroll along and say, Oh, well, you know, and I don't agree with that. So I really think we need like regular townspeople on the council, someone that's gonna get in there and say, No, like, for example, myself, and I'm not running for counsel.
SPEAKER_02:But you don't want to submit yourself to that torture.
SPEAKER_00:You know, there's two there's two things here, Scott. I would run for counsel if I felt like I had the time to devote to it, like the town deserves, but I still have a job. I'm not like our current council, most of them are probably already retired. They're older guys, right? But not only that, you go on to town council and then your tongue is tied because of the Brown Act and different things. I want to be able to use my First Amendment and get up there and say what I want, how I see it, regardless of what they think, because that gets it out to the public. When you're when you're over there and now your hands are tied behind your back and you can't say things because, oh, I might get a Brown Act violation. I don't want to be, I don't want to be trapped. I want to be able to be out there and get my voice out there. And that's why I agreed to do your podcast because the townspeople need to know, but we we don't always get the forum to put it out there. We don't get the town, you know. That's why I was glad that our town of Apple Valley put my post about my conversation because we had like at this point, like 550 people liked it. So that means it is getting out there a little bit, and that's what we need to do. People need to know, hey man, the town's not going great, and yeah, they're not transparent and they're very dismissive. Yeah, let's put a regular guy on that council, someone that's gonna say, absolutely not, even if he gets out vote four to one, at least he can stand on his laurels and be like, hey, I voted against it because it's creating more spending, and the current people aren't. I hope 20 people run because last time Nassif and Bishop, I think it was, they ran unopposed. No one ran against them.
SPEAKER_02:It's just crazy. And it's crazy. I and I and I and I really hope the best for I, you know, people like Ted, you know, who's running. Um, I don't know exactly what he stands for, any other than you know, a few minor things, but I I kind of just hope he wins just because it's not any of the current people, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, well, that's right, because the status quo isn't working. And I don't know Ted very much, I just know him a little, and I know that he is for transparency. Yep. He wants he wants to let the townspeople know what's going on, and he feels the same dismissive attitude when you know he goes to a council meeting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. And so wait, I mean, the one thing I I wanted uh to touch on briefly that you mentioned, and because I don't think a lot of people know this is pay of of all of the people, right? Um, and the town council versus like the town manager, right? And I'm gonna talk to all of them, hopefully. But so town council, I don't even know what they get paid, to be honest, but it's all part-time, right? And then but the town manager is a full-time position, and you mentioned it briefly, but I I pulled up the number here just to so I could say it correctly. The amount of money that the Apple Valley Town Manager, keep in mind, Apple Valley,$299,148 a year. Wow. It's ridiculous. It's it's just absolutely insane, you know, and you get these council members who who hide behind the Brown Act, you know. Um, like they didn't even want to answer if they were real going for re-election, even though we already know one of them is Carrie Leon, you know. They just stood there like it. I won't say that. They stood there and looked at the people, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Right. You you ask them, and you know, the Brown Act does allow them to make to answer, they could say yes or no. Yeah, they're not giving up any kind of secret information. So they just dismissive. They almost when I was up there talking, Larry Kusack was chomping on some gum or something else. Bishop was looking down, reading something. The other ones that were looking at me are just looking at me like they're looking through me. They don't care. And then when I got done, the mayor says, Well, some of that stuff has been talked about in other meetings. That was dismissive. That was him saying, like, basically, eh, okay, next, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and and I don't know if you cut if you cut what I said about the first the first minute of my public comments was like, hey, they they talk for so much about themselves, you know. Like, I get it, it's a business meeting, they're doing what we're what we're you know elected them to do, but I don't care who they talk to, you know? And you could tell it struck a nerve with them, you know. Oh, it did because with Carrie Leone with Art Bishop. Art Art even said, well, I guess I talked too long. Like, yeah, Art, you know, like I respect you, but yes, you do.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I and I think I remember you saying, like, you limit us to three minutes, but you'll sit up there and go on and on and on about what you've done. And uh, or it was you or someone else said, like you'll you limit us, but yet you ramble on and on about the hobnobbing you did this week.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the hobnobbing isn't fixing the problems. Yeah, it's what that's doing is just you're playing politician, and that's not what we need.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, one uh 100%. And and and I and I think they're continuing to do that, they're just playing politician and they're trying to do what's best for their own interests in in especially things like this uh this Walu truck and trailer facility, right? Um, and so I know that's a huge major local conversation for that right now, which is if your people aren't aware, it's this uh large multi-acre lot near the corner of uh Walu and Navajo that's gonna house hundreds of tractor trailers, huge lights, loud, you know, lots of uh different stuff. And they're they're currently working through the issues. But from your perspective, David, what are your biggest, if you can make an argument for this type of industrial development in that area? And what are your most valid concerns that you think are raised by residents? And and with that, how do we balance the growth of the city versus you know keeping it like a quality way of life, like they they want it to?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure. So my opinion is I'm affected, I feel directly with this proposal because to get to that area, one of the main thoroughfares would be right kind of through where I my community is, my neighborhood. And number one, our roads throughout Apple Valley are already in bad shape.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's one major thing you hear people talk about, the potholes, the roads, et cetera. So when I heard about that facility, I thought, wow, they're gonna have a lot more trucks on an infrastructure that's already failing. And then when I found out the exact location, I thought, very close to a lot of people's homes. So much for the desert life and the serenity of living out in that area where it's nice and dark at night. And I thought, as someone who was an owner, operator, truck driver for nine years, when these guys roll into town at midnight or three in the morning, because you know, that's when they got to town, and they set their air brakes. Trust me, through that night air, everybody in that vicinity is gonna hear that air brake be set. Or when they have to get up early and take off to go to work and they fire up their their truck at you know three o'clock in the morning, the people that live a couple hundred feet from there, or how however far it was, yeah, it's it's gonna really disrupt that neighborhood, that general area. My opinion is number one, who owns the land, who's connected to them, who knows them, and who's and who's trying to push it. There's a reason for it. Because the pros and cons are what? The only pros there can be is revenue. And how much revenue can a truck parking lot generate? Yeah, they're gonna charge these truckers what a couple hundred bucks a month to park there, uh whatever it is. So the but the cons, look at the cons. It's gonna number one is the infrastructure. The roads can't handle the additional traffic. But then I looked further. What if one of those trucks springs a fuel leak at a 150-gallon fuel tank and it leaks into the ground? Are they gonna put uh uh fuel barriers underneath the ground, you know, underneath where the parking area is to protect the water table or whatever it is from something like that? Are they gonna have on-site fire suppressant? It can be a bit someone showed pictures of the fire, a fire from another place down the hill or something at the council meeting.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:There's so many cons, but you know what? Why not go to the town's residence, especially the people that live in that general area, even if it's a mile around or half a mile around, and you say, This is what it's proposed, what do you think? I bet you 99% are gonna say no thanks. But the town doesn't care, they do not survey their constituents, they just make a decision and roll with it, and hopefully they don't get caught and it's next thing you know, it's done. Yeah, you want to continue growth in the town? Great, do it in the proper area. You want to do a truck parking? Great. Put it up by Walmart where there's millions of trucks already, and you know what? It's not next to a bunch of houses. I mean, why don't you just put it halfway up Corwin? Why don't you just buy a lot halfway up Corwin then? You you can't just willy-nilly. I like using willy-nilly because that's what they do. They just willy-nilly do what they want, and hopefully no one catches them. So I always go back to why are you approving it? Why, why are you even considering it? Who owns it? I mean, someone someone knows somebody who knows somebody, and that's why they're trying to push it through town.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I I will I will say this to to that statement right there. Is so I did a little research and I haven't talked about it at the town council meetings yet. But um, and and I'm not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing, I'll be absolutely clear. I don't want a lawsuit, but um, it is interesting, right? Scott Nassif works on the Victor Valley Wastewater Reduction Authority. He's uh one of the members because all like mayors do that, right? So they can hold things together. But so what do they do? They you know work on sewer mains and water mains and that kind of thing. Do you know? So, do you know the name of the company that's opening up or trying to open up that that truck trailer facility? I don't. It's Weka Incorporated, W-E-K-A Incorporated by Scott Himley, and is the the guy who runs it. Very good. He's does a lot of government contracting. And can you guess what he does government contracting in sewer mains and water main relocations?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so see, you hit it, do you hit the nail right on the head? Yep, you're not gonna accuse him just like I won't accuse him, but everything's pretty ironic, isn't it? That everybody is connected in one way or another, and that's the problem here.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, and and so it's it's it's really unfortunate. And I so I I uh I go to a local church here, just down to uh Central Redeemer, uh, Redeemer Church, and um we have a guy there. I I won't name his name just to protect him, but he's he's in the construction business up here, and he knows Scott Himley. And so I talked to him and said, Hey, because he overheard me talking about this and said, Hey, you know, would you like how what does he think? Like, what is has he heard of all these people that oppose it? And he said, Oh yeah, Scott Himley knows that people oppose it, he just doesn't care. You know, he he it's he believes it's his property, his right, because he owns it and he can do whatever he wants with it. It's like okay, I believe that to a point, right? There's a reason we have environmental reviews, you know, and I don't think this will pass.
SPEAKER_00:Oh well, and okay, let me tell you a story. Quick story. Of course, even with this environmental stuff, I've had experience in my industry that it's all about who's got the fatter checkbook, and it and it's it's sad, but it's true. So people could, you know what? I've seen things in my industry where I'm in the construction industry, for example, and I've seen things where I'm like shaking my head, like that's so bogus, or that that's so crooked, because I'll know like this isn't right or that's not right, but next thing you know, it's made right. And you just, you know, and your morality tells you that something's something's hokey here, you know. And I hope it doesn't pass. I don't, but I don't even think the town council should be they should have said no. Let's they should have said this if somebody comes to the them and says we want to do this, we're gonna pull our constituents, we're gonna put a survey out, find out what the town thinks is is a good is a good business decision for the town. Here's the pros, here's the cons. And uh if the townspeople say, yes, great, we need it, yeah, yay. Okay, well, take it to a vote. I feel that way 100%. Include the townspeople in the decision making because your decision making has been caused us to be in a deficit. That's my whole opinion here.
SPEAKER_02:And they're gonna say, well, you voted for us, so that's that's how you how you involved the community, you know, that's how you how we involved the community.
SPEAKER_00:Well, on that note, when measure p had a had a a town hall, I I went and there's like three or four people there. That was it. It was the mayor and it was the town manager, Doug Robertson. And we I was asking about Measure P. I said, here you go, trying to raise our taxes again. What kind of guarantee do we have that's gonna be used for police? Because it says P for you know, penny for police. Well, it's going into the general fund and uh you know we're gonna use it. I'm like, how do we have a guarantee? And Doug Robertson told me, if you don't trust your counsel, recall them. That's what he said, point blank. And I was like, that's so smug. I was just like, man, that's that's basically, you know, you voted him in.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. And and here's what I I was gonna say this earlier and I totally forgot, but how are we doing measure P to gain more money to do hire more law enforcement if our revenue is like is already too low compared to what we're spending, right? How are was Measure P just to try and balance the budget? Then because you know, I don't see it doesn't add up, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, it doesn't add up, and that's why I said measure O in 2020, it failed. I was like, what the heck? We're in a deficit, what's going on? And then measure P again, and I'm all for more deputies, don't get me wrong. But when they come out and said, No, we may lose two of our current deputies, and we won't be able to hire any more deputies if this doesn't pass, I'm like, why is your deficit? Why are we in a deficit year after year? And so now, well, in the in that Facebook post with Leon, um, she made a comment to me. And I don't know if you went to her page and actually read the comments between her and me. Or you just okay. Well, she at one point she says, We've hired eight new deputies and we have a$1.8 million surplus. And I responded, That's because of Measure P. Don't act like it's because of something you guys did. It's because the townspeople are paying more taxes to get what you've got. So it should be being used for pol. I mean, almost like look what we did. We hired more deputies. Um, no, we hired more deputies.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I mean we're paying for it. We shouldn't have to do measure P to get the deputies that we need when it's based off of a percentage of like sales tax, which increases when the population increases. And we should take that into account when we're doing our budget to hire more deputies. We shouldn't have to rely on increasing that percentage, you know, to hire more deputies. It should come along with the growth. We shouldn't have to increase it just to do, you know, do basic things like that, road repair, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Correct. And when they say we may lose two current deputies, but now later on, we find out that they're dipping into the reserves to balance the budget. Well, then why didn't you dip into the reserves to cover the the contract with the sheriffs instead of putting another tax out there? Because you're trying to use more tax to fix your guys' lack of knowing how to run a city. Yeah, yeah. You know, the town manager was hired, I think, I think, 2018. And he's recently now he's leaving. So the whole time he's been here, we've been in a deficit. Yeah. And they're paying him an exorbitant amount of money, and we're still in a deficit. So he didn't do anything. And they praise him. Thank you. And you did a great job. No, he didn't. We're still are we still in a deficit? Then he didn't do a great job. Oh, it's my opinion.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean, so along with uh things like Measure P, and I'm pretty sure I I know how you're gonna answer this question, but I'll ask it anyways. Um, so local politics here really thrives on community involvement. Yet uh we often see low voter turnout in municipal elections, right? We just talked about that a bit ago. On a local level, how would you grade the current transparency and trust between residents of Apple Valley and their elected officials? And and with that, what do you think the town government could do to increase public engagement on critical issues like measure P?
SPEAKER_00:Well, on a scale of one to ten, one being the worst, I give it a zero because there's no transparency with this town council. And when you do try to engage with them, they're very dismissive and very smug. I've used those words before. Yep. Because they do, they, you know, when they're out at the park for an event, they're all smiles and happy. But when you go and you go to the town council meetings, they're they're rude and dismissive, they just sit there. And they do not care about community engagement, they don't want people involved because they don't want people to like myself or like you or like Carrie Hennard or Voice of Apple Valley, different people that ask questions, they don't want that. Engagement means people have, you know, the inquiring minds want to know. They don't want people to poke around and start asking questions because then they're gonna be called out on things. They just want people to be happy that there's a concert and hi and wave and smile. And no, it's more it's more than that. And I feel like the majority of our town has been bamboozled to think that things are just great because they don't want to open their eyes. And people and we need to get we need to get it out there that I wish it was almost like a watchdog group for Apple Valley that people could like get something in the mail saying, Did you know? You know, you see it all the time. Election, you get postcards on these elections, and people say this and that about their opponent, whatever. That's why I made that big post on our town of Apple Valley because I'm like, Do you guys know we've been in a deficit and the same people who have been in office the whole time, they they they don't know what they're doing? So they need to have community engagement, they need to worry about their constituents' thoughts, they need to put out the pros and cons, and I'm down for it. You know what? Anytime there's a project or anytime you're gonna spend more than whatever amount of money, you need to involve the community and let them decide. It's funny with measure P, Scott, because they say we're gonna do an oversight committee, and that was part of their pushing. Not only did they were they deceptive about being in a in a deficit when they apparently weren't in a deficit because they bounced it out using reserves, yeah. They pushed that to push their narrative of we need measure P. Then they also pushed the the whole oversight thing. At that town hall, I told those two, Doug and the mayor, I said, How are you gonna choose that oversight committee? I said, Are you gonna put everybody's name in a bucket and draw them at a council meeting so there's no hokiness, no good old boy choosing? And they just looked at me. They didn't respond, they didn't say a word. But then they turn around and after that and say, Oh, we're gonna do applications, we're gonna hold interviews, and each council member is gonna choose. And I knew right there it's crooked because if the you you don't choose who's gonna, it's like I I use on one of my themes, it's like telling the fox to guard the hen house. That's not gonna work out. You can't put who you want on the oversight committee. The oversight committee should be comprised of average citizens of this of this town who are chosen because they were interested in doing it and they were chosen randomly live at a council meeting, so there's no favoritism and no hokiness. But is that how they did it? Nope. No, because that they because they're hokey. This town council is hokey.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, 100%. Yep. I it's yes, I I mean I try to stay positive about people when I can, you know, as as much as I can, but unfortunately, they they just don't make it easy.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, Scott, recently I heard, because I've talked to quite a few people, that for example, somebody had commented on one of my posts, and I hadn't seen it, but someone told me about it. So when I went to look at it, I couldn't see it. I couldn't see it. So um the person told me that oh, the guy commented, but then he immediately deleted his post. And I found out that the guy who had commented was someone who I guess he worked on Carrie Leon's campaign with her, or he set up a fundraiser for her, and he like works for that supervisor Paul Cook or something. I mean, I don't know the I don't know these guys, but then I found out that he's also on the oversight committee that she put him, that was her selection. Really? That's that's what I mean about rubbing elbows and being connected. Yep, you're gonna put it's like me saying, I need someone that's gonna scrutinize what I'm gonna do. Let me tell my brother to get on there. He has a different last name, and then people will think he's watching what I do, but he's not because he's my brother and he doesn't care. You can't do it that way. They need to do things with some integrity involved, and they don't have integrity.
SPEAKER_02:No, not at all. It's really unfortunate. And and unfortunately, we we could go on and on for hours about measure P and transparency and lack thereof. I totally um I I do want to ask you a couple other questions just to get your opinions and thoughts. Um, so as as we look ahead, and Apple Valley is definitely on the path of continued growth, right? We've seen that quite a bit year after year. Um, which single like infrastructure or resource challenge, you know, water, road maintenance, you know, including Measure P things, you know, uh, or commercial development, do you believe possesses the biggest threat to the town's quality of life? And what action is needed to address it right now, do you think?
SPEAKER_00:So I'm all for commercial development, and here's why. I'm all for taxes being generated from a business to help with the budget before you hit the average citizens like us.
SPEAKER_01:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So, you know what? I'd love to see an in and out, or you know, they're putting an Aldi or they're doing different things here off Highway 18. Great. I love the growth of the town because number one, the convenience is there. We don't have to drive across town to go in and out. I'm using that as an example. But also, I think about it on a business aspect. Good. Generate the tax to help the budget because I don't want to be hit with another tax because I don't see it ending because that's what they do. You know, they tried it, they tried it in 2020, they did it in 2024. Already, what what's the deal with this measure I, another half cent coming on the ballot in November? Are you saying 2026? Okay, I don't know a lot about it. I'm just reading things a little bit about it's a San Bernino County Road Infrastructure Fund or something, and it something about it's going back on the ballot in November of next year for a half cent sales tax increase. Now, don't quote me on it because I don't know if I'm even understanding it correctly. But I did read that and I'm like, wait, I haven't heard about this. Is this fact? And it's something about it was a San Bernardino County initiative that's going to different cities, but it's a measure I and I and I think if I read it correctly, they're planning on putting it on the ballot for another tax. And I'm like, Yeah, so I got it. See what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:So in November 2026, voters in San Bernardino County will decide whether to remove the sunset clause for measure I, which was a half cent sales tax that was approved in 2004 to fund transportation improvements. If it's approved in the election, the measure will continue to fund the projects like road maintenance, uh bridge rehab, and public transit beyond its original 2040 expiration. It will not actually increase sales tax, but uh instead remove the end date of that.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so already it's gonna go till 2040, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So another 15 years. So it's on there now. Do you want to re-why are we worried about removing it if it's not gonna if it's still all if it's already on till 2040?
SPEAKER_02:I I I don't know exactly. I don't understand that completely.
SPEAKER_00:So I don't either, because it's like, oh, if you still have the half cent sales tax until 2040, but you want to know if we want to remove it so it can go on for infinity? I mean, probably I don't I don't under I don't understand it either because I I it's kind of what I read, and I was like, wait, so we're gonna vote. Do you want to remove it or keep it on? It's not like it's ending in the next year or two, right? It's going on for another 15 years. So what I what that tells me is we just want more money from you to fund everything we do forever.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and it looks like Art Bishop is the is the one that's really behind this one. He he's saying it's uh quote, he's says the the sunset clause makes it quote real difficult, unquote, for the town to move forward with some of the major projects if it's still there.
SPEAKER_00:Like even though it's there till 2040?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:See, that doesn't jive for me.
SPEAKER_02:No, it doesn't make any sense.
SPEAKER_00:It doesn't.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, uh that's just crazy. Um, but so here's here's a question. So looking forward, you know, um, so say it's 2035, right? In about 10 years, what um singular achievement or state of being would would lead you to say that Apple Valley's political leadership over the past decade was a success? And uh conversely, what would you think would be the biggest sign of failure?
SPEAKER_00:That's kind of a deep question, but I I think success would be shown by the amount of new businesses and and the prosperity of the town. Okay, town's doing great, the the the town's residents are happy, they're happy with the Christmas tree lighting, the concerts in the park, which I go to that stuff. Yeah, and I and I like it, I appreciate it. But the back of my mind says, What did this cost the town? I'm sitting there trying to enjoy it, and the whole time I'm thinking, because I'm a taxpayer and I hate taxes. I I think I think we're over taxed, we're tax of debt. So when I'm sitting there enjoying the concert of the park, I'm thinking, wow, how much did we spend on this?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:When you know, and I think if the town can continue to grow and have and have um you know retail come to town, that's great. I think they should involve the town more when it comes to like that truck parking. I'm certain they're not gonna put a survey to the town and say, hey, we've got an in and out coming, do you want it or not? No, you know, but you know what I'm saying? But it's gonna be in an area where there should be an in and out, not in they're not gonna put it in the middle of a neighborhood. Yeah, right. So I think I think if they would continue the growth that way, but failures, if they can't get this budget righted like immediately, I mean, they keep spending money on like the golf course, and and I looked at the budget and I think the I think it was like 800,000 lopsided, and I talked to people and they're like, oh, the Sing Center costs us money, the golf course costs us money. Why do they keep throwing good money after bad money? Why do they keep it all? I mean, listen, what percentage of this town golfs maybe? 20%, if that maybe nobody nobody I know golf over there.
SPEAKER_02:Nobody I know golf golf course, if they do.
SPEAKER_00:And what is it is it a pet project? Is it a pet peeve? Last council meeting they awarded the the the golf supervisor for doing such a great job. And I'm like, really? What's what's he who's who's involved? Who's who's opened a restaurant there? Who's selling something there? Somebody's making something. There's no reason to keep a failing venture open year after year.
SPEAKER_02:It's a liability, is what it is.
SPEAKER_00:It's a liability. You know what? If they if they close it down and then they turn around and in and I think if it's 2020, there's an article where where Doug Robertson said, if we close the golf course down, we'll save 500,000 a year. Okay, well, now I think it's worse than that, but close it down until we are not in a deficit. And if we can write the ship and want to open it up again, fine. But if we can't, then how about sell that property? Yeah, exactly. And use all that money for something like the roads. Instead of coming after us and getting into our wallets, close it down, like the sink center. We did someone donated it to us. Okay, that's great. And I read an article, they donated a three million dollar property to the town. How great is this? Okay, but now what's it costing us? Is it costing us in taxes? Is it costing us, is it costing us in utility? What's it costing us? They the budget said something like 700,000 a year, and then it said that was the expenditures, and the revenue was like 700,000 a year. Well, we don't make no money on Sting Center. Do we charge people? What are we doing with it? We don't need it. You know what? Close it if it's costing us money, close it down. Yep, sell it, sell the property, let someone else develop it. We don't need it. What we need is the money because we've been in a deficit for nine years.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we're too busy thinking about that and stuff, and rather than fix the the baseline issues that a town needs to solve.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So those are you know, moving forward in the next 10 years, quit spending money on losing entities, get that budget balanced, and continue to bring growth to the town. That's great because that's generating revenue that should help you to do that. But I don't, you know what? I don't know what they're doing or why they're doing it. There's no method to what they're doing.
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:You know, they're just not. And it's you know what it does? It it saddens me as a town resident to know that our town council keeps making decisions that are still in a deficit. Someone told me it's because they tried to take over the water, you know, the Liberty Water or whatever it was that they spent exorbitant amounts of money on that. So they're trying to recoup it and whatever. Well, you know what? Then that goes to bad decisions again.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. It's yeah, bad decision after bad decision. And unfortunately, unless we get someone else in in the office, you know, to replace some of these people, I don't think anything is ever gonna happen. Um, and so here I I have a question for you to kind of kind of wrap these up because that was a good actually ending piece. But if you and I'll I'll sorry, this is impromptu, but um how how would you if people are listening here and they're just learning about some of these things, how how would you how would you encourage them to make a difference and to uh effect change in the town of Apple Valley or the high desert as a whole?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so I think the town residents like myself, like you, number one, start being more engaged, go to the council meetings. But I really think Measure P has an oversight committee that needs to be disbanded and chosen in a more fair way, not a favoritism way. Because that measure P, I from what I understand, they've met one time. I don't know if the truth, the truth behind it, but the fact is it was chosen hokey, hokeily, right? My word, hokey, it wasn't chosen with integrity. They need to they need to disband it and they need to re redo it, and they need to say, if you're interested in Measure P, we're we're redoing it, apply by this date. Everyone who applies is gonna be drawn by a council member from a bucket. No, he's not gonna have any idea who he's getting. Because then you got a bunch of regular Joes, Joe the plumber, Dave the trucker, whatever, on the oversight committee to ask questions and say, and and and let the town know, hey, if I have a Facebook post and I say, Oh, the town's trying to blow money. Now, recently I saw that the oversight committee was watching a slideshow about the Brown Act. So the problem is if the oversight committee is being under the auspice of the Brown Act, then they're gonna be mummed also. They're not gonna be able to, and that's what they want. You're gonna come in and hear what you hear. If you don't like it, too bad you can't talk about it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I think people like myself, I'm not on no committee, and I'm not on no council, but I do have a big mouth and a big voice, and I'm gonna put it all over social media and I'm gonna come to the council meetings, and I'm gonna use my first amendment to say what I want. And whether you like it or not, I'm gonna try to spread it around the desert. Yep. Because that's the only way it's gonna get out there. They've got, I think everything they do, knowing that they're in this deficit and they're apparently taking from the reserve fund to write the ship, but still saying they're in a depth. No, no, no, no, no. You're being dishonest, you're being deceptive. Enough is enough. You guys are, you know what we need to do? We need to doge this town. That's what we need to do. Yeah, get in there, open the books. I want to see this. Oh, I don't want all this big graphs and all this unexplainable stuff like we appropriate from. No, what you're saying is appropriate means take. So just use it in layman terms. The regular people want to understand what you're saying. Don't try to blow smoke because that's what they're doing.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:I think they need to get in there, and every decision they're making, because they can't make them, they're not making the right decision. Everything needs to go to the townspeople. You know what? Yeah, we had a council meeting last night and this was proposed. What do you think? And that's what they need to do. And they need to say, We have a we have a survey, please stop by town hall. But then you know what I think, Scott? People will put their little survey, they'll answer their surveys, put them in the box. And I don't even trust that the town will will look at the surveys properly. I think they'll say, Oh, you know what? Thin this pile out because we want it back, we want it to pass. Nobody has integrity at this point.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's it's it's crazy. And I I do think they're yeah, transparency is a huge issue right now, hot button topic with with the town. And uh, but I do think, like you said, people need to come to the meetings, they need to learn about the issues, get smart on them, and then vote in the elections and and hopefully vote in some new people so we can bring that transparency and bring new blood to the town council. Um, so if if you had anything else, anything to share, to say, doesn't matter what it is, people listening about the town, about yourself, I doesn't matter. What would you what would you want to share?
SPEAKER_00:I would like to tell the town of Apple Valley's residents don't trust the council. They're not transparent. And it shows it if you go to Carrie Leone's Facebook page about her running again for the council, our dialogue, she she clearly states we have had a balanced budget year after year from appropriating from the fund, and we can that that contained several million dollars. Well, if you match that statement up to their statement for measure p in the daily press and in their resolution, they never mention anything about that in there. It's simply we have been in a deficit. So, town of Apple Valley people, if you're listening to this, these guys need to go. They're career politicians, just like in Washington, D.C., that have lost what's best for the town, period. And when they make statements that are either, like I said, they're either dishonest, they're either there's no transparency or there's deception. They're trying they want the town's people to vote measure P in. So they're gonna tug at our wallets and our heartstrings that we've been in a deficit, we need this help, basically. When you can't be in a deficit if you if you got out of deficit by using the reserve funds, but it's almost like they it's almost like they hid that from us. They didn't want to let that out. They don't want to. So when she said it, I'm like, what fund is she talking about? Well, ever since then I found out she's probably talking about the reserve funds. If we have a reserve, so well, how much is in there? And when are you gonna stop pulling from it? Quit spending money. It's the pork. You mentioned it earlier, it's the pork. Stop spending money on losing entities, so you'll stop pulling out of our reserve fund. Because what happens when the reserve fund's empty?
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Then the town files bankruptcy. What happens? I mean, I don't know. I'm not a politician. And but that's a valid question. How much is in there and when's it gonna when's the bleeding gonna stop? When do you quit pulling from the reserve fund? And are these guys just gonna run it into the dirt and then they're then that's when they're gonna decide not to run again? Let some new council members figure it out. We we got our CalPur's contributions, you know, and that goes back to someone mentioned on one of my pages like how much does the council make? And somebody came eight said 800 a month. If you go to Transparent California, they might only make 800 a month on their little stipend, but when they I but apparently they have insurance and CalPur's too because it's like 40,000 a year for each of these council members because of all the other spiffs that they get thrown in there. And I don't know if these guys are retired, they're on social security, and this is like a supplement for them. I don't know what the deal is. All I can know is, all I can definitely say is we've been in a deficit. Yeah, and one of your council people said you've been able to balance the budget year after year. So someone's not being truthful. You guys are being hokey, man. It's not true. And we need people in there, like I say, I hate going round around the same thing. We need honest people in there, but I almost feel like for voting reasons, you you better get at least three honest people in there because the three that are still in there are gonna keep overriding them and they're not allowed, you know. You can look and see how they vote, and from what I've seen, they always vote five-nothing. And at the last council meeting, I asked him, I don't know if you heard me, I said, Do you all make bad decisions, or is it just some of you, but you just get oh overridden by the majority?
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:And they just look at you. But the fact is, do they are they proud? Are they proud that they're in you know, a deficit? Are they, I mean, what's the deal? What what's the blame? What what are you what are you doing here? So I think my message to the town, and just to wrap this up, is pay attention, have your voices heard, and and vote someone new in office. We need to make a change. And a lot of people, they don't care. I don't know if it's a lot of people that vote that I mean, I guess they're millionaires and they don't care if we have more taxes, whatever, but I'm just a regular guy and I'm never for more taxes.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:So I implore the town, just vote some new people on the council and let's let's cut things that are costing us money. We don't need it.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. Well, well said, well said. Well, um, thank you so much, David. I I appreciate your time here. I I would love to to have you on again, especially after I get a chance to talk to some of the council members and uh and mayor and see what your thoughts are and what they have to say in the future, if that's all right with you.
SPEAKER_00:Anytime, anytime. I'll I'll be glad to I'll be you know what I'll be glad to put my two cents out there and hope that the town's residents listen and say, wow, that made sense, or that didn't make sense, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Yep. Yeah, I well, I will we will we'll take you up on that. So thank you, David. I I uh I appreciate it. And uh we if anyone has any questions or comments, please uh do that on the appropriate platform you're watching, or you can send them to the email in the description, and we will get back to you guys. So uh thank you, David.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you everyone for listening. And that about wraps up another episode of High Desert Insiders. We wanted to thank David for joining us today and shedding light on a number of key issues that are facing our community and what he has to say to encourage people in the future. Remember, your involvement is what makes the high desert thrive. Don't let the conversation end here. You can find all the resources we discussed, including links to the town council agenda and how to reach your local representatives in the description below on your appropriate platform. We love hearing what's on your mind. So send us questions, idea for future topics, or feedback to the email address in the description below, and we might even feature your comments on the next show. So thank you for spending your time with us, staying informed, and being a high desert insider. Join us next week as we tackle another top issue up here in the high desert. Until then, be informed, be involved, and have a great week.