EAST TEXAS UNFILTERED w/J. Chad Parker: Featuring John Nix

Tyler mayor candidate John Nix joins East Texas UNFILTERED with J. Chad Parker to talk about his run for mayor and the experiences that shaped his view of city government. John shares his background growing up in small towns and coming to Tyler with a carpentry trade. He explains how construction and development gave him a close view of infrastructure, budgeting, and long-term planning.
John speaks directly about the issues driving his campaign. He focuses on water bills, sewer debt, road maintenance, city fees, and downtown construction. He also explains how his time on city boards and the city council shaped the way he thinks about spending, development, and future growth in Tyler.
This episode gives viewers a fuller picture of John Nix as both a person and a candidate for mayor. He talks about transparency, city priorities, and the role of local government in serving residents well. It is a direct East Texas conversation about leadership, infrastructure, growth, and the choices facing Tyler in this election.  Be sure to like and subscribe for more East Texas UNFILTERED content.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

And then was there ever a thought in your mind of college or was it I'm going to work?

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Yeah, well, pretty much I'm going to work.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

I mean, I went through leadership school with alert. Is that what it I mean, does that alert stand for something? Airland Emergency Rescue Team. Yep. Basically, um, it sounds like something rural that prepares people to go out and support first responder type industries around smaller areas.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Now I was, I exited right when alert came to Big City. Uh you got out of that, got out of that, and moved tower. Okay. And so moved tower. You were headed for the big city. Yeah. Well, it was to me. I mean, I've never, this is the biggest city I've ever lived in in my life. And literally showed up, I think it was a thousand dollars in my bank account, and I had a 1983 Oldsmobile and a tool belt. And carpentry was natural because your dad was a carpet carpenter. Yeah, but it was my trip. So I'd been taught to be a carpenter, and then so we moved here and I started trimming houses in the woods. Um, I mean, Ken Senior gave us our first our first job here as trim carpenters, but then the arch of fitness just kind of grew.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Welcome to another episode of East Texas Unfiltered. Today's guest um is in the mayor's race. We've got a runoff in Tyler. Everybody's heard about it. People have heard different things about the candidates. So what we thought we would do is ask each of them to come here and tell us face to face, you know, what are the issues? Who are they? Why are they running? John, thanks for being here. Hey, thanks for having me, Chad. John, um, I was born and raised in Tyler, and I I don't I don't know you. We we've never met before. No. Uh tell us a little bit about, you know, kind of your upbringing, uh, where you came from and how you got to Tyler. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

So I was born in a hospital in Lebut and until I was four, lived in a little town right outside of La Misa, I think it was called Wells. Yeah, Lilith Town. And then my dad um and mom were both school teachers. And um he became a carpenter and he moved to Vernon, Texas to start a construction business, which um I still haven't asked him why he moved to Vernon. There's not much going on in Vernon. Right. I mean, it's not a populated area. No, it's about uh when I was there, it was about um 12,000 people. And I mean, one of its biggest employers is uh the mental hospital there that we send all our Is that where you I mean, did you were you born and raised in Vernon? No, I was born in Lubbock. Okay. And so I mean so yeah. So four to um 14 lived in Vernon, and then um my parents got a wild hair and sold everything, and we volunteered at a ministry. Uh, and that ministry was based in the upper peninsula of Michigan. So I'd never seen snow before. I'd never seen anything like that. But we literally grabbed. Yep. We were about 60 miles south of Lake Superior. Um, actually, not that far miles wise. That's about how long it takes you to drive up there, um, just because of how you know rural the roads are and everything. But um, yeah, Watersmeet, Michigan. We moved there to a facility that this ministry was at, and it was a um training facility for young men. And it actually, uh my dad moved it in, I want to say 1999 to Big Sandy. So it's the Alert Academy. I don't know if you've heard of them. Did he get completely out of the construction business while he was in Michigan? Well, we were there to be the construction trade school instructor. So they had a trade school there that taught construction.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Is this for men or people that was just for men that were trying to, you know, have a purpose or a direction in life?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Yeah. So the Alert Academy is based um basically around giving a young man uh a purpose, a vision, and then tools to go out and serve. And so we have a boot camp phase, and then you come out and then you have emergency services training, basically. Everybody gets certified in either wildland or structural firefighting. You become a medical first responder, you get your ham radio license, you learn how to work disasters and alert, we get deployed all over.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Is that what it I mean, does that alert stand for something? Airland emergency rescue team. Yep. All right. And so it's basically um, it sounds like something rural that prepares people to go out and support first responder type industries around smaller areas.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Large-scale search and rescue, and so they're very active in the East Texas area. They do, um, they're involved on almost any search and rescue you hear about on the news here in the East Texas area. And a lot of um former alert guys are involved in first responder units all over Tyler. We've got um some of the helicopter medics that we have that are in the helicopter at UT are alert guys, um, two or three captains on the City of Longview Fire Department or alert guys. So it's pretty well integrated with alert over the years. Now I was I exited right when alert came to Big Sandy. Uh you got out of that or got out of that and moved to Tyler. Okay. And so moved to Tyler. Um You were headed for the big city. Yeah. Well, it was to me. I mean, I'd never this is the biggest city I'd ever lived in in my life. And uh was here to be a trim carpenter and literally showed up, I think it was a thousand dollars in my bank account, and I had a 1983 Oldsmobile and a tool belt. And why Tyler?

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Just because it was the largest, closest city that you knew of?

SPEAKER_00 5:34

No, we because of housing markets, we were looking at Dallas or Austin or Tyler. What year was this? This is about 2000, 2001.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Is your dad in this with you too? Or just you?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

I had already left, and as right after I left Alert, dad retired as well. And and he moved here with my younger siblings. So I was about 21, 22, and then he moved here. Um I have a sibling who's two and a half years younger, I have a sibling who's 10 years younger, and then a sibling who's 15 years younger. All right, that's a pretty big gap. It's a big gap. And same parents. They just took a break there in the middle of the back. Um so uh obviously my two youngest siblings were still in school, and and they moved here and and I was homeschooled all the way through. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

So you were homeschooled all the way through from elementary to high school. Elementary to high school. All right. And then was there ever a thought in your mind of college or was it I'm going to work?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yeah. Well, pretty much I'm going to work. I mean, I went through leadership school with Alert, so they had had a leadership school there as well. Um, but then pretty much just go to work. Um And carpentry was natural because your dad was a carpenter. Carpenter, yeah, it was my trade. So I'd been taught to to be a carpenter, and then so we moved here and I started trimming houses in the woods and uh for the Wheeler family. Mark and Ken and Oh yeah, Ken Sr. Yeah and and then as Ken Sr. was leaving, um, I mean, Ken Sr. gave us our first our first job here as trim carpenters. And then um we got some jobs from the boys as the years, but then our businesses kind of grew. And then they got out of it. They were, they were pri predominantly development at the time, and and I don't remember how many houses we actually trimmed for them, but um we got in with a bunch of other builders and we started, we had a decent sized crew, probably seven, eight guys at at our highest as a trim crew.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Are you running the crew or are you actually working with the crew? Both. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

So I had I had my own crew, but I mean, hands-on. I mean, I'm a stair builder and a cabinet guy.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

And uh that's kind of the specialty in carpentry that you have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

And and I'm I'm good at it. Uh I loved it. It was uh but once we got, you know, as Tyler grew, um, I think the way I tell the story is um I was looking at one of Brad Roots and uh his dad's houses to bid on, and he sent me to another house they were doing is like, this is kind of the quality of work we want. And I walked through it, and it was another trim crew. Um, and I think they were bidding it at half the price of my rate. Yeah. And the work wasn't to my quality, but it was good. And it was one of those light bulb moments where I was like, I need to do something else. I was like, I'm I'm too expensive for this quality of work. And we were, we were top of the line. We really were. And our our work was really good. We're perfectionists. Um, but it really was, I mean, this was uh I think the house we went through is a million, two million dollar house back in the late 2000s.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

At the time, that'd be like about four now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Monster house. Right. And and it was one of those deals. So um that's really where and then we had that was right in the 09, 2010.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Post 2008 stock market crash. Yeah. Right? Where money kind of dries up. I don't know if the building dried up in 09 and 10 or not. That's when it started to hit Tyler. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

So it was real late to Tyler, right? Like Tyler's insulated in a way. Dallas got hit hard, you know, right in 08-09. Really, it was 2010, 2011 here. And we had been building spec houses on the side just as extra income. Um I've learned how to do it. And you knew all the contractors. We did know all the contractors. And really, even though I was I was a carpenter, there's really no aspect. I had done several summers as a framer, I'd done a couple summers as a roofer, I'd done concrete. So there really was no facet. I don't do plumbing and electrical. Those things terrify me.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Yes. I mean electrical would terrify me. But it seems like the guys that rough the plumbing in early on, you know, it's kind of the same after you get the pad, you rup the plumbing in, yeah, and then you move on after the concrete, uh, and start framing.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Uh and so we've been doing that, and so I had always had a desire. Um, and we're getting really thin money-wise, right? Like, I mean, markets dried up and we're we're just carpenters. Where are you living in Tyler? So at that time, we I had a house right over by TK Gorman. Okay. Um, right off of right off of Jan. And I mean I grew up on Downing. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Right over, yeah, just a little bit north of Downing. The cul-de-sac off of Devonshire. Yep, I know where that is.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yeah. I think my sister-in-law lived there for a while. And I think Buddy Powell lives there now in the Shannons. Yeah. Um, so uh that's where I was living. Dad had a house, a little house off of Barbie Road here in South Tyler, or down in South Tyler. And yeah, so that's where we were living at the time, and just carbonary. I'd gotten married in 05. And so I was four or five years into uh being married to story. She was the HR director at Grace Community Church and School. All right, so she had an income, which is she had an income. I think she was making a little under 30, and I was making about 30 a year.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

So and you're getting priced out of the market at the same time as a crash. That there's a crash. So this is tough, especially when I guess when the industry tries to come back, they're looking for the cheapest prices as they come back. Absolutely. So that's really hard to carry on as a carpenter. So when you what did you decide to do?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Well, um, the Lord really blessed us as far as our employees go. I mean, as as you know, you you have employees, and when that's you care about them. Yeah, you care about them and those families, and we didn't have to let anybody go. Um, everybody did leave, but it was slow attrition. Guy would come and be like, hey, I've got another opportunity I really want to do. One guy wanted to go back to TJC and get a certification. Another guy wanted to move to another state, and so that kind of just happened organically and um, which was great as far as that weight goes. But we spent some time looking, and I'd always had a desire to actually build investment property. And that had been something I'd been looking at since I was 14 or 15. Like it, one day I want to build investment property.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Because you, you know, just the simple thought from any human being would be I want to have something that makes money while I don't have to do something, right? Like I want to be able to do what I do, but also have an investment separate and from the risk of a stock market or a bond, right? And lease property in Tyler Smith County has always been real strong. Real strong.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah. Our rates here, when people come here from out of town, they're always surprised how expensive it is for what you can get.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Right? They're like, I can't believe that's all you get for $1,500 a month. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

I mean, yeah, it's big city prices. And that is that is interesting. And so we anyway, I spent some time just looking on SCAD for tracts of land, literally, and at aerial photographs. And we found a piece of land over by UT Tyler that had been zoned for duplexes and already platted. And I um Is that what you built? Duplexes? Yeah. We built we built 21 duplexes on this little piece of land. And we did it, we started in 2011. I think we were done mid-2012, and that was our first investment property project. Let's talk about that project.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Did you have any did you have any exposure to the city permitting uh good good times, problems, or whatever? Because this leads right up to when you run for city council.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Uh it does. It does. I had already been a volunteer at the city for a while. Planning and zoning, something like that. I had been on planning and zoning or probably I probably had was just getting on planning and zoning about that time. I'd been on construction board of adjustments and appeals. Um, I'd been on a task force to review the city's building codes and adopt a new building code system at the time. So I had really started to volunteer at the city, I guess, in 2008-ish. And so just um kind of back to alert and my parents, I mean, civic service was something that was always um kind of revered and respected. Um, my parents always respected our so, you know, people who would volunteer on behalf of the city. Contribute more than they take. Yeah. And so that was something that from an early age was instilled in us. And so that was pretty natural. As far as interactions with the city, yes. I I was already, obviously, we'd had lots of building permit interactions and inspections. Lots of inspections.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

You know, I mean the whole I mean, anybody who's ever built something knows kind of what happens, right? But as far as the as the stuff that you volunteered for, yeah. Uh at planning and zoning construction, would that be appointments by someone, or is that something that someone just volunteers for?

SPEAKER_00 14:52

So Yes and yes. So you we have actually um uh a slew of boards at the city that are all volunteer. Well, everything at the city is volunteer pretty much. I mean the city council and the mayor's volunteer.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Well, the uh the mayor's race that you're running from, what's gonna be your salary?

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah, zero.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Zero. Yeah. People need to just let that soak in a minute before they send ugly emails and complain. This is a non-paying job. These people that are running for mayor are are doing this for free. Absolutely. Yeah, running for free and gonna serve for free. And the planning and zoning, which, you know, unlike some cities, uh, you know, people that are actually qualified in these areas serve on these boards to support the city government, don't you? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

And and sometimes we get people who have um so you apply, you can go to the city and uh once at least a year or twice a year, they actually try to fill fill boards. And so you can go online and apply, or you can go down to City Hall and apply for one of these boards and pick something that interests you or something you want to have some input on. So um the planning and b zoning board specifically is highly sought after. Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Um, because people are always when they make investments or outside companies that want to come here buy property, they might want to change the zoning.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Right. And and that's pretty, and it's you know, how they interact with neighborhoods. So you get all sorts of people applying for planning and zoning, people who want to have influence, people who are interested, people who are mad at planning and zoning.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Yeah, like some people, you know, that have lived here a long time, maybe they may lean anti-growth a little bit. Yep, right? Because it's not the way Tyler, it's not the way they remember it. It's getting too big. I don't recognize all these people that are here now from the 1970s, you know, when we were here. Yeah. Right? I mean, there is that undertow of friction, don't you think?

SPEAKER_00 16:51

There is. And that's something um that's something you have to be cognizant of. It's something you have to be careful of. Because I mean, there, there is a place, right? For hey, let's let's review this, but also um a lot of times that those feelings and opinions can go too far. Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

I mean, you can't just stop progress because you're mad about something that happened two years ago. Absolutely. Um and the city seems to have, well, there's enough people, I guess, on these boards to make sure that, you know, the dilution, if you will, is not the decision.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah. And I mean, it depends on who you are, how you feel that went. Yeah. Or it is going back.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Oh, yeah. Whichever way the issue goes.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

But it is one of those deals. So yeah, you apply, but planning and zoning, you you will have had to apply, but it is that more or less turns into an appointment. Kind of like half cent, which I sit on right now, which is a true appointment. Each each council person has a seat represented on the half cent, and that's a straight appointment.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

All right. So John Nix decides I'm running for city council in 2012 or 13. Right? Yes. And you win.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

I do. Well, I was unopposed that first time. Okay. That's a that's an easy win. That was that was an easy win. And I I have run uh highly contested races and unopposed races, and I will tell you the unopposed are more fun every time. I bet they are. You served from 2013 to 2019. That's right. So I filled a unfinished term uh for Jason Wright. Okay. Um when he retired and went to work for Ted Cruz. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

I think he went uh he may still work for Ted Cruz. He may.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

He's he still lives here, I think.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

He does. And he's married uh He's married to Jimlin. Who's got the uh She owes Hot Tots. Right. That business over there. That business over there. And so he uh and he had actually um I was on PNZ, he knew me through PNZ.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Did you get recruited in any sense? Do people go, hey, you ought to run? How does that work?

SPEAKER_00 18:52

I yes, I did. So basically this the same day he retired, I got a call from um him and Martin Hines and saying, We think you should run for this seat.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Because I mean the city existing, you know, uh Martin Hines at the time might have been mayor. He was just councilperson. Okay. He eventually became mayor, but I mean he was preparing to run for mayor. I'm sure that the council members want, you know, like-minded people or at least people that uh have a business influence or perspective in some way, I would think.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Yeah. Well, I think it it it benefits the city, right? Right. Like I mean, it is one of those deals, people who who have that experience and and and by that time, you know, I was on my second and third development too. And so having a lot more experience with um not just the vertical construction as we call it, but the horizontal construction and which is roads, water, sewer, um, stormwater, all those things that go underground.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

All those things that are the primary issue uh up to date. Yes. Okay. So just for the audience, I mean, I researched so that, you know, that one, I'm not ignorant of everything, and two, that I try to facilitate our conversations. Yeah, absolutely. And what it seems to have happened was somewhere around 2017, either the uh the EPA or the you know, Texas uh TECQ, right, contacted Smith County maybe over some complaints or maybe over a series of overflows of some kind, which led us to where we are now. Is that right? So yes and yes and no.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

So so here's this is actually a fun story. I love this. Because you will own the game. I got I got elected in 2013, and uh Barbara Bass is the mayor, Mark McDaniel is the city manager, uh day after I'm elected, um I come in, well, I mean, you know, day, two days after I'm elected. I go down to City Hall to meet with the manager and the city manager, and they said, Oh, by the way, we're being sued by the EPA.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Okay, so essentially you walked into a lawsuit that you, you know, obviously it didn't stem from a year prior. It it had built up over time.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

And what it was is it was an EPA initiative and they have gone through the entire nation and they started with the biggest cities and were working their way down, and it was our turn. I've seen that. They've done it to Houston. They've done it to everybody. They were basically down to cities that were around 100,000. So we got our loss we had gotten our lawsuit. So I don't know if we that came in 2011 or 2010, prior to me being there. And at the time, it was I don't know, in your world, you'll understand this. Like it was basically they had sent over a copy of the lawsuit and said this is coming and had yet to really file it, right? And so, under threat of a lawsuit, they were saying we want you to enter into a consent decree with us.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Right. And and so Where you agree to make these improvements, spend this much money, and you have no choice after that because we, the federal government, will enforce it. Correct. And so that's what the residents here need to understand that we've been living under a legal consent decree since about 2017 is when we signed it. Right. And so it was signed while I was on council. Which means if we're not spending money and showing them that we are making progress on the sewer, then they're going to fine us again.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Yeah. There are there are penalties in there. And so and that's here's what I will say about the consent decree. Um, a lot of the work in the consent degree is good work. For local. For the city, right? Like so one the consent degree was basically they wanted us to camera every sewer pipe throughout the city. Camera like a what with a with a camera, like a plumbing camera, run a camera down the pipe, a snake. A visual inspection via camera. Yeah, a snake with a camera on the end of it. They wanted us to inspect and seal every manhole, uh, reseal, make sure there weren't any cracks, any stormwater leaking in, lid lit off, making sure there wasn't infiltration. Um, and after the cameraing, if we found any breaks or collapses, we were to fix those. And so we have over 730 or 750 miles of sewer pipes. Yeah. And and it's a big job. It's a big job. Well, and a lot of our stuff is old. Old. Over 100 years old. And and that stuff we don't have maps for. I don't I can't remember the last count of surprise manholes they found while they're camera that nobody's seen for 60 years. It's been paved over, or there's been, you know, something has happened, and nobody at the city or that's been at the city for the last 30 years even knew it existed. So we found a lot of those. And in that, in the consent decree work, once again, the work itself is not bad work. The fact that we could not do it on our schedule, um, the fact that we've had to spend millions of dollars in third-party inspections that the federal government required and reports that the federal government is requiring us, send them. That's called verification. Yeah. Verification. And but those guys are expensive.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

And you know, whole purpose because they work for the government and they can charge uh as a contractor uh what they want to charge. Aaron Powell What they want to charge.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

And there's the of course that's a specialty. And of course. So really, when we signed that, um it was a little overwhelming from a price standpoint because it looked $65 million? It was $75 million. Okay. Um and we looked at at lots of ways to absorb that. But basically at the time um we were able to just in in water revenues and stuff pretty much absorb. We were gonna be over those 10 years to absorb that $75.79 million dollars. Is that what it was anticipated? There would be a 10-year project? It is a 10-year project. So it's a 10-year consent decree. So next year is the last year. Okay, right. Um but 27 is the last year of our consent decree. So um we're kind of against, you know, gun to our head to make sure that it's so that's why we see a lot of action lately? Yeah. That's why you're seeing a lot of consent decree action lately.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

I see a lot of, you know, a lot of people digging up holes and and around the city. And I'm like, what is going on? You know, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Trying to wrap that up at the very end. And I would say where where we have a real problem is is that as we've gone from you know through the through the middle chunk of this consent decree and getting near the end, um it has gotten out of hand as far as the cost goes. We're gonna be over $300 million by the time they're done.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Aaron Ross Powell And this isn't interest, this isn't uh No, that's that's expense. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

So this was anticipated to be $75 million? $75 to $79. And this is one of the issues I'm running on, is the fact that during the course of that, um our current city council was not planning for how we're gonna absorb that debt or pay for that debt long term, other than just going and getting bonds in the water department. So we're this is debt. Do we do we have bonds? In the water department, we have bonds and that are paying for this consent decree. But if you look on your water bill that everybody's flipping out about, rightfully so, there's a thing on there that says compliance, and that is an interest payment.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Right. The compliance I don't know if it's compli is a debt payment. Compliance or or environmental fee, I'm not sure, but it's I I think there's one uh there's a regulatory compliance fee.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

That regulatory compliance fee is debt interest.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

All right. And so also uh in addition to that, um the water bills themselves um seem to have gone up if you just listen to the population talk about water bills. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Some of that is this consent decree debt. And and I've I've always had an issue with the fact that they put all the consent decree debt on the water department completely.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Right. I mean, there the choices could have been raise taxes on the entire population to shh take the burden on equally, right? Right. Instead of what you're saying is it's kind of been focused entirely in the w city of Tyler Water Department and the people that pay the water bills.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

I mean, and this, you know, and and my my issue with that is is that um since we're not planning for the future and we're dealing with this huge uh deferred maintenance bill, we've got to get this done.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Don't we have a lot of people?

SPEAKER_00 28:04

We have to get this done, and it is getting done, and but at the end of the day, we're gonna have a $300 million bill to pay that has been shifted over to Waterbill. Are we paying any of that bill as we go? Aaron Ross Powell Uh yeah. We have been. I mean, as the bonds have been taken down, those who've been in that regulatory compliance fee, it's just in the last two years, it is significantly ramped up. I think in the last two years it's gone from like five to six million dollars in interest. I think last year it was $14 million in interest.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Well, the changing interest rates since we entered into this legal consent degree, in fairness to everybody, very different. Have changed dramatically. Okay. And are you saying that maybe uh the work could have been planned better uh and we're rushing and doing more projects towards the 2027, is that a factor as well? Um Well, I don't know that we're rushing so much as just trying to finish the list. Well, I mean, yeah, yeah. If you don't if you don't plan for the list, and I'm not saying the city didn't, right.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

But if you don't and you look up and a third of the list is left and you've got two years to go, I mean, I'm assuming the projects would really seeing kind of the specific oversight you're talking about is the fact that the consent decree guys are downtown right now. Um, so that's the reason Max Gunshop, you can't get to it. That's the reason Elm Street's completely shut off. That's nothing to do with the Square Project. That's consent decree project. A consent decree project they've known is coming for the last five to six years. But right now, while the square is torn up, they're doing it.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Well, that was going to be my question. I always, you know, I'm one of these guys who just never believes there's any such thing as a coincidence. And uh It doesn't feel like a coincidence. I'm just saying, is the downtown project and the consent degree sewer project, are those unrelated or totally unrelated. They're totally unrelated.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

But and they've known the the Square project, in my opinion, which we'll I'm sure we'll talk about, is um Yeah, we'll get there. Is uh whether you think it's needed or not, um which I think it needed to be updated personally, but um was discretionary. That's the word I was looking for. The consent decree project is non-discretionary. Right, right. So you've got five to six years, you know this non-discretionary project's coming up. But instead of having the contractor like, hey, we're thinking about tearing up the square, why don't you run down there and get your stuff out of the way first? That doesn't happen. Okay, that's not what's happening? Well, no, that that's what should have, you know, that's what should have happened that isn't happening. Okay, that's what's it. You should have told them five or six years ago, like, hey, we know you're gonna do this. We're starting to think about the square project. Can you get in there and you know and get through downtown so that's not an exacerbating factor?

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Aaron Powell Can't those do they do those at the same time? Since they're right now it's torn up, can't they just work the sewer in and and it really not be a double interruption, if you will?

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Well, they just they don't really uh correlate or run together. So the sewer that's being replaced is down on Elm Street and it's down, it comes from kind of up where the old Napa Auto Park store is Irwin and Beckham is and it follows that creek, it goes from Max Gun Shop, then it goes underneath the parking garage, beside Caldwell, and then out through the part behind Caldwell. And so that's the sewer line, whereas all the square stuff's up in the square.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

So it's a block away. All right. Um there's a lot of stuff going on. 2027, do you anticipate that we'll be freed from the consent degree or will there be will it be extended?

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Um I mean, I think that right now we're looking at force majeure clauses, which is like with all the rain and stuff like that. As long as they can um work through the rain and weather conditions, I think they should be done.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Aaron Ross Powell For the people listening who heard the word force majeure, what that means is you contractually are supposed to finish something, but due to Mother Nature or other circumstances, the contract uh is not claimed to be in breach. Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

You're able to basically able to submit a report and say, hey, it's been raining for four days. I wasn't able to work for these four days, I get four days added to my contract. All right.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

But I mean, I'm sure you still have um, you know, contacts, people you know at the city about this project. And so do you think that if you're elected mayor, that this will be something that'll time out in 2027, or you'll have to deal with into your administration?

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, I mean, I would say right now they're on track to finish it in time or close to, and I pray, I mean, that's it's gonna be a push. Obviously, we don't want to incur fees on top of all the other fees we're already getting in just inspections and third-party verification.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Does half-cent sales tax, does it weigh in on any of these projects at all?

SPEAKER_00 33:06

See, and I I would go back to um I think that should have been the case on some of this consent decree stuff versus $300 million in debt and all on the water belt.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

But in that, they don't really weigh in on it. So how about other like general obligation bonds or other ways that municipalities, that is, cities, try to pay for things? Trevor Burrus, Jr. Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Um Well, I think that we could have done kind of like what we did when I was on council with Fund 103, which is something we created. So when I got on council, we were spending an abysmally low amount of money on our road maintenance. Okay. And in the Trevor Burrus, and road maintenance you mean just city or county? Trevor Burrus, Jr. Just city. Okay. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Just city roads. And so we created Fund 103, and several years when we allowed the taxes to not the tax rate to rise, but not go down so much, basically right up to the rollback. So any new revenue that was coming into the city from taxes, we would put in this road maintenance fund. And so I think people complain about roads. Yeah. Well, and it's and that's the problem too. In the last five, six years, there's been no added investment to what we were spending when I left annually on road maintenance. You mean the same amount as being same dollar amount. And you know, you've heard of inflation. So it's a lot less road. And a lot more people? A lot more people driving on them and a lot less roads just because you know that same dollar doesn't buy the same dollar worth of asphalt it did when I was on council. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

No, it doesn't. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

So but yeah. So kind of how that um is going with um you can do general revenue bonds, but you can't also that's something we just don't do, general obligation debt um historically. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Right. I mean, we've tried to avoid issuing bonds from the city of Tyler. Trevor Burrus, Jr. That are that are called general obligation.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Obviously, we've we've issued a lot of water bonds, right? $300 plus a million dollars right now. What's the difference there? Uh then then is it. That's a great question. It is um so a water bond is tied just to water revenue.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. Which means that if there was a default, the only thing that they could do was take over our public utilities and raise the price to pay for them. Yep. Right? So only thing they can encumber is fees for water utilities. Aaron Powell All right. So that would leave um I mean I hate to say it this way, but that would leave the uh people with the most or least discretionary income uh in the most precarious situation. Trevor Burrus But we're kind of already dealing with that because I'm gonna put all that debt there, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Like, yeah. So and that and that is the problem. And I've I've talked about this several times. And um I know you're a property owner here, but we have this great thing that is our over 65 exemption, right? Where you can freeze your values at 60%.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Can't wait to get to 65 income.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

And the beauty of that is specifically what you're talking about. Like people who are on a fixed income retirement, they don't have the ability or the wherewithal to go create another stream of income or or anything other than what they have coming in at retirement. And and that's what should have been looked at for this $300 million worth of bonds, putting it somewhere toward property taxes, having a vote like, hey, I know the fear of a vote when it's something that you have to do from this date. But I mean, the fear of the vote is it's like, hey, if if we vote no, this is going to be on the water revenue. If we vote yes, then those that are vulnerable are protected because we have this over 65 freeze and it'd be in in property taxes. Instead, since it's in the water bond, I mean, I've got I've got several little ladies who showed me their bills in in my old district and in South Tyler, and they're literally they're taking one shower a week. They're washing their dishes once a week, they're washing our clothes once a week, because their water bill has gone up 250 percent.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Yeah, I mean, I know that from a lot of my clients, you know, uh many of which live in the north side of the town. Um, they uh, you know, you know, basically suggest a doubling of their water bill. And I've had uh Don Warren on the show and he says, yes, they are high, you know, and everybody everybody agrees on one thing, the water bills are high, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Yeah. But there there are other issues other than just the consent decree debt in there, though. I th there have been things like um there's been fees added in there. Uh some of those fees um I don't believe should be on the water bill.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

Trevor Burrus, so what what why do you think the city is doing that? Or is it the water department? They're not able to do that on their own, are they?

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Aaron Ross Powell The Well, yes and no. I mean, they're the city is just using the Water Department as the billing entity. I mean, uh the easiest way for for me to explain it is it's literally taxation through fees. Right. I mean, it's it's one of those deals. Now, I I believe fees should correlate to expenses and should correlate to expenses that the person who's paying the fee is using. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

unknown 38:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

You're saying it should be a one-for-one. You should Yeah. Like if we if we owe something and it's a separate fee, then we should collect the the amount of fee that covers that, but not get more from that fee. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Correct. Okay. And and that is that is not happening on the water belt. Completely. I mean, there are there are some that are, like your water rates, but I think that the other thing that, and I know I've pointed this out a bunch, but our current water rate is wild. It's a it's a declining water rate. So the more you use, the less you pay per gallon, basically. Well, nobody does that anymore. And mainly because of water conservation. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

I mean, why would that be the case for the city of Tyler? Because it's just the way it's been. But I mean, like, who would even how would that even be politically helpful to anybody or be any incentive for them to continue that? It's there shouldn't be. I mean, right.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I mean, I've been campaigning against it for a year.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

I mean, we try to encourage less water usage, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:02

I mean, to someone. The reality is that needs to be flat at least. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And if you go out like Southern Utilities, theirs accelerates, right? Because I mean if you've had the joy of paying that somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

I've lived in a neighborhood, baker plantation, southern utilities. Yeah. Um that sucker will get you. Right. And sometimes it'll get you uh in a month that you didn't feel like you really used any more water.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yep. Um and so we our our our fee structure has to be changed because I I believe it's inordinately affecting those with uh low means and fixed incomes. Because I mean, it is one of those deals where uh you know you've already got your base minimum billing, but then you've got this declining water rate. So the people who have the highest demand and have the highest usage usually have more money. They have more money, but they're also putting more demand on the system. So I when they're shipping that load, they should pay more. Absolutely. And and it's one of those deals that load is being shifted to those who are minimum users. And it is one of those deals. I literally had a couple ladies bring me their bills the other day, and one used quite a I mean, quite a bit in percentage terms, more water than the others. But because of our declining rate, her bill was a little bit less than the other ladies. And this other lady was one of the ones that I was like, I'm down to one shower a week and one dishwasher.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

So it is not funny. I mean, it's really no, it's sad. We're we've gotten to this point, and I mean, I think the uh people who are interested and hope for any type of change or relief would have to look to the mayor's race as at least one way for there to be someone who advocated for a different way to accumulate debt going forward or pay for things.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Right. Pay for things and and that's I mean, that's been the basis. I mean, that's why I'm here, is is these fees, because it's not just happening in the water billing. I mean, it they're they have raised every fee. They are feeing little leagues out of existence right now.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

And it is one of those deals where I took a team to the World Series. That's awesome. Um at my at Golden Road. So that's cool. But they've never done anything to fix up Golden Road. No.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

And I think that is on the I think I did see that on a side of the phone. How about a Golden Road update? Yeah, a Golden Road update does need to happen. But it is one of those deals where um like all those fee structures need to be reviewed. Fees that are not going to actual expenses need to go away. And those revenues need to be paid somewhere else. If it's something we have to have, one of my biggest deals is if the city needs more money, they can come to the citizens and explain it. Instead of just popping a fee over here, popping a fee over there. And my issue with that is is when it's not correlating to an expense, is it creates this mode of revenue and operation. And the problem that the city has right now is I don't think the city can come to us and say, listen, we have looked at everything and we are we are pinching every penny and dime here.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

You don't think that they've looked at everything? Is that what you're saying? I don't think they have. And also there's a there's a political calculus, uh, intended or not, in that, you know, when you try not to raise taxes, you try to, you know, maybe spread things as fees. Yeah. And and the property tax rate in Tyler has generally been suggested to be kind of low. Trevor Burrus, Jr. We're the lowest in the state for cities over 15,000, 50,000 people, not 15. Well, people need to let that sink in, because that's a fact, right? It's not you and I saying, hey, it is the lower it's low. People here, um, you know, by and large, everybody wants low taxes. Right. I mean, uh it's but But that does affect what you get from your city, right? Right there's a direct correlation between services, right, and money. And if you add into it, Tyler is a fast growing place. Yep. And adding all these people quickly to the infrastructure, which is roads, sewer, water, then you know, it can't be Christmas for everybody forever, can it? No, it cannot.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

And there, and there's a lot of things that have to look that we have to look at like that. And I think that that's really what I'm gonna bring to the city, right? Like we're gonna literally just do a business cost analysis, right? And go through every department. And we're gonna make sure that, hey, if there's a private sector equivalent, like you're meeting that price point or you're beating it to make sure that we're giving the citizens the best bang for the buck. I mean, really kind of recreating what LTOP did 30 years ago and just going through and making sure that all our processes are right. And then once we know we're pinching every penny and every dime, and there still needs to be a revenue call, well, then that's an easy. Ask of the voters. And if they don't want to do it, we're going to be able to put out a simple menu like this is what this buys, and that's what we're going to do with it.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

You know, communicating the needs are tough because cynicism, rightly so, over time, has crept into the equation where people don't trust the numbers. They don't trust that we really need this. You know, most people in Tyler are very, you know, philanthropic, right? I mean, and and people would generally step up and do whatever was necessary, but I think it's sometimes the messaging is not as clear as it could be.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Yeah, and I think we, you know, not to disparage anybody, but I think we just saw that in the last bond that we had a couple last week. TJ, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

I'm going to bring that up. Well, and I want to, I wanna, I think you just made a great point. Um to I want to correlate that to TISD school bonds. And so TISD did, you know, three rounds of school bonds, right? Like they did, or maybe it was four, but they did elementaries, then they did middles and junior, and then they did the high schools.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

I mean, and there was a citywide strategy for what areas were improved that went into that thought process. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Right. I mean, and but what I was this is the kudos to TISD, right? Like they did their elementary bond, they put out all the pictures, they said, this is what we want to raise, and then you know what they went and did with it? They did exactly what they said they were gonna do, and the pictures matched the buildings, and that's where they spent it. And so the next time they came for a bond and they said, This is what we're gonna do with it, they had a little less trouble getting through the voters. And then by the time they got to the high school, the big monster bond, it was kind of like, here's the pick, you know, if you want to vote for it, that's fine. If you want to vote against it, that's fine. But the reality is, is the argument then, your cynicism you're talking about, which I completely agree with, is not there because they've just done two bonds over the last 10, 15 years and they've done exactly what they said they were gonna do with it. And so I think that when you cannot back that up and not clearly state what it is, I think you have trouble because of the cynicism with the voters.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

And I think people will try things and people have gotten cynical to the point where they say, oh, um, this bond, you know, they didn't really put a lot behind it. There wasn't a lot of uh enthusiasm or emphasis because maybe they just come back and cut the bond by 25 million and say, hey, we've looked at it and we've reduced it. Maybe they maybe they do, maybe they don't, right? I mean, right.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

And so I don't know if you know this about state bond law, but there's this interesting thing I found out a couple of years ago. Um and do not I'm gonna say don't quote me on this percentage. Um this is this is we won't quote this on this. This is this is fuzzy. Obviously, I'm saying it out loud. But I mean there's a general. If you have a hundred thousand million dollar bond, uh there is something um in bond law at the state that allows you to increase that by fifteen to twenty percent without going back to the voters. And that's kind of a safe inflation. Yeah, it's inflation or something happened on a job, so you don't have to go back to do that. So the reality is as a voting on a $100 million bond, is you could be voting in a $120 million bond.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I mean, that's and not be asked about it. I can see uh you know I can see that there is the need for flexibility sometimes, as you say. Absolutely interest rates could change. I mean, you know, and you wouldn't want to act like it was something sinister that happened because it was out of everybody's control. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Um And that does happen. And you wouldn't want to, you know, lose two to three years on a project rebuilding a bond amendment and going back to the voters and the rest of that. So there's a purpose for it, but the reality is I also don't think that's something that's shared. And when that kind of stuff's not shared, back to your cynicism standpoint, like that makes me cynical.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Do you think that um that such low voter turnout rates feed the thought that we don't have to convince that many people? So education doesn't have to be that thorough because if we look and there's ten percent that come out for the uh mayor election, the bond, hey, it's ten percent of the most um, you know, informed people in the city are coming out to vote. Yep. Right. And so it becomes kind of a popularity contest or a vote no on anything contest, right? I mean 100%. Um and so I suspect TJC needs some updates. Um I think they do.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

And I think TJC, honestly, if you go to their campus, I mean, I think they do a good job of wearing their stuff slap out, right? Like I mean, they well, they they use their, you know, use their buildings and they well, and I think that they make things go the extra mile.

SPEAKER_02 48:39

It's a 12,000 student enrollment. Yeah. Um, they're constantly involved in like job training related to industry and other businesses.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Huge impact of the region.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Right. I mean, so it's it's definitely one of those things that, you know, sometimes people say sometimes you have to spend money to make money. Yeah. You've heard that before. Absolutely. I mean, that's a concept in government that exists as well, don't you think, at least to some degree? I've heard of the concept.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Um I don't Yeah. I mean, I've heard of that. I don't I don't think it necessarily applies the way some people apply it, especially because I mean my view of well, how about tax abatements? As a as an example. That's a great example of where uh where people would say, you know, spend money to make money and and government.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

Let's give let's give Valencia downtown $12 million in tax abatements for 10 years or something like that, right? And we get half of those millions, though, in tax revenues that we would not otherwise have, right, if they didn't choose to come here, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Yeah. I think uh one of my favorite ways to frame that, and this is just so that people know how I think about that, um, because that is a good point about how it's thought, but uh Nathaniel Moran has this great um concept, and it's called the the but for concept, right? Like but for this um whatever we're doing, whether it's you know free water for a year or whether it's we're running you a sewer line to your property, but for this thing the city or the county or the state is going to do for this, there's no way it exists. Because I don't believe that if you you know, I I believe that um those kind of things like tax abatement and business incentives need to exist at some point, but I don't believe they need to be fair from a standpoint of I don't think they're cookie cutter. And I think that if you're able to run and be successful and come here and you want to be here and this is where you want to, and you don't need it, I don't think that necessarily means you should get it, right?

SPEAKER_02 50:47

Like I think that um what I understand, that's I mean, like the Bass Pro shop, they did not get offered uh incentives, did they? No. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Yeah. They they didn't. Um there there that could be argued a little bit on the road that's being constructed out to Broadway right now. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Centennial Parkway or whatever that is. I know it's it's now called Bass Pro Drive. I think it was Settlers Landing, is what it was like.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Okay. But you agree that at least in in concept and principle, that the city really didn't incentivize Bass Pro Shock.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

And and if the city is going to do something, I always believe it should be in the city's lane, right? Like obviously, we don't have some huge pot of gold that is our economic development pot of gold that we can hand out, right?

SPEAKER_02 51:35

We privatize that entirely, don't we? We do. And that's Texas uh economic development council.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

And that is a great group of local business leaders and organizations that work together to help incentivize businesses to come here and bring jobs. And and Yellow Yellowwood is a great example. I mean, that's a good example.

SPEAKER_02 51:57

Trevor Burrus, Jr. The Amazon warehouse. Were there any tax incentives provided by uh I guess it would be the county out there, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_00 52:04

The county. I know that there we've done some the city has done some water line work and things like that. And that's kind of where I was I was going with like even the road um The city ran the water line to John Soul's warehouse, right?

SPEAKER_02 52:19

And it cost the city three million dollars. And that was the example I was thinking of when I said sometimes you have to spend money to make money, right? Right. Because John Souls will pay more than the city water rate for the water in the county area, correct? Yep. And anybody who attaches to that line from John Soul's back to the city of Tyler will add revenue to the city's water. Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

And that's why I think that's the kind of incentives we should be doing. I mean, that sounds like a good idea. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It is. Well, it's one of those deals when a when a when a business comes to town and we can do a water line or we could do a sewer line or we can abate trash service for a period of time or something like that. That is low hanging fruit, low impact to our citizens, but at the same time bringing in those businesses and incentivizing their growth and making our area more attractive, especially since we don't have uh, you know, a city fund because, you know, we talked a little bit about the half-cent sales tax, but uh 30 years ago when they did the half-cent sales tax vote, you the community voted on how to use that. And the state charter says that you can either use that for business incentives or you can use it for infrastructure. And so the community voted and decided to use our half-cent sales tax for infrastructure. And so that's the reason it's not available for uh economic development. Some communities trying to remember.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

Longview, everybody but us basically did capitalizes an economic development arm of the city through sales tax, yeah. Right. But we do it, you know, we get like a million, you know, it's very small, right? Yeah. So these guys over here work with a lot less um, you know, to try to do as much as they can, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:04

They do. And I think that that is, you know, that's probably one of the reasons I get pushback on my um desire to go through every department and make sure that we're, you know, because we already are lean, you know, people are like, we can't be any leaner. And I I disagree.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

I mean it is one of the Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Are you and I mean are you and Stuart Haney or I mean, are y'all are y'all splitting hairs here because we have by and large a pretty good city government compared to most everything else in the state. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Compared to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

But I think that the problem is Goods can get better? Well, I think the problem is our current council has spent years into the future. Like that downtown square, they've already spent almost two years of half-cent budget money just on the Square Project.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

So Okay, so you mean there'll be no more half-cent budget money?

SPEAKER_00 54:54

Well, as construction budgets work, right? Like we may only spend a million this month, and next month we may only spend a half a million, so we might have half a million for another project that month. But they're spending, you know, 34 without any extensions or change orders, $34 million on the square with the roads around it, the green space, and then the $40 million when it's all right. $4 million, we're paying the architects and engineers. Uh that gets up to $34. Uh, there will be change orders, so I fully expect that number to get bigger. Half cent only brings in $20 to $21 million a year. So, and they're running that whole project through half cent.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Okay. But I mean, just you've given us some good numbers, John. Uh you've said, you know, $20 to $20 million a year, half cent, right? 20 to 21. We think the project's gonna finish up downtown, probably, if any change orders, closer to $40 million.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

I mean, I I fully expect north of $36, yeah. Okay. If if it goes as is. Now, I believe there are savings to be found in the downtown project. I think the downtown project, it is going. We're gonna finish it if I'm mayor. But we have to finish it. We have to finish. I mean, there's no way we cannot finish it. Absolutely. It would be foolish and insane to not like anyway.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

It's gonna look good.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

We're not gonna stop it. We're not gonna do anything. I completely disagree with the narrowing of Broadway. The Broadway needs to stay four lanes wide, mainly because I I mean, I would have been okay with the narrowing if they would have done mitigation of traffic, given alternate routes like add a lane to Beckham or Add a Lane to Palace or something like that to help traffic move around downtown. They didn't. And so we can't just choke that off with no options. And a ton of people from North Tyler commute to South Tyler, and a ton of people from South Tyler drive through downtown North, like through that past. They're gonna have to hit Beckham and Palace. And I don't know if you've been on Beckham and Palace at Rush Hour, but they're full already. They're at capacity.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

Right. Let's get you on the record here. The downtown project, I mean, are you generally for it, or are you or were you against it, or are you against it?

SPEAKER_00 57:05

I am 100% for it. I am a hundred percent against the way it has been executed. I I was against the plans the way they were drawn. There's there's multiple issues with the plans, in my opinion. Yeah. I mean, I think it's they're replacing stuff that doesn't need to be replaced subterranean. Like that thing can look exactly the same as it is in the surface pictures and be a lot less expensive.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Uh what do you think the motivation is behind anything subterranean?

SPEAKER_00 57:37

It's so I I heard the dog and pony show two years ago. Which is the people that benefit from the contracts? Yes. And the dog and pony show is is this is gonna be your legacy project. And if you're gonna do a legacy project, we we would normally build this to last 30 to 50 years, but we need to build this to last 80 to 90 years because it's a legacy project. And that's the sales fetch. And I'm like not sold.

SPEAKER_02 58:07

And so I mean so if you had been in charge at the time, you would have taken a cheaper option, is essentially what you're telling us.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

Well, value engineering, man, like go in there, the things that don't need to replace, there's multiple parts of the infrastructure on the square. Not all of it, like the stuff on College Street need to be replaced, the pipes underneath the roads. Um, they were real old. But take um Ferguson, take Irwin, like those pipes are less than 30 years old. And that's a newborn baby in infrastructure world. That is still that's still a spring chicken. And so those kind of things, and then even the the road cross sections. Well, the road cross sections is basically the recipe to build a road from the base dirt all the way up to the surface you drive on. Fill to what? Yeah, fill, you've got stabilized subsurface, you've got your midlayer, you've got anyway, and every inch and every added thing you engineer in there is money is money. And I mean, not a little money, right? It's a lot of money. And so we've got these road cross sections down there that are just ludicrous for what is the traffic is down there and for what we need down there. And so I just, I mean, I don't just firmly believe, like I know, because this is my world too, right? These things could have been adjusted.

SPEAKER_02 59:31

And is that just is that just ego? Is it just nostalgia for uh, you know, um a project that that seems to be, you know, I support downtown Tyler. I mean, what is it that you think causes people to not take a little bit more efficient options if if they exist?

SPEAKER_00 59:53

I I don't know the full answer to that. I know that they ran this through half cent, which I've mentioned. I'm on half cent. So I mean it. I asked these questions and got, you know, shushed. Um and and so I essentially ended up. Dollar lacks a consensus. Yeah. I'm the only person who voted no on this anywhere in the process. Well. And I've got a target on my back because of it, and I know that. But I mean, and here's I mean, but I mean it shouldn't be, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

I mean, honestly, uh politics is is to me is just uh because you can't even ha talk about good ideas without people saying, well, you know, you're against me. Yeah. You're not supporting. You're just not for the plan. You're not for anything. Yeah, you're not.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Yeah. And so now I'm being cast as this anti-downtown, anti-growth guy. Well, I'm a developer. If this town doesn't grow, I have no work. Like my income stops. I don't have any other income other than this town growing. But then even the downtown, I'm very much for the downtown. But I would, I mean, another example downtown is like I love our brick streets. I think they're part of our heritage. Like, I those need to be preserved as well. Not everywhere. We've got 13 miles of brick streets, and you can drive through some neighborhoods where I believe those neighborhoods could have a lot nicer and more maintained streets. Now, not our historical neighborhoods is not what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:22

I mean you're gonna have a you're gonna get an email from Tyler Historical Society.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

No, I'm for the brick streets, always have been. I think that uh during Barbara Bass's tenure, we did a brick street study, and it was vetted by the historical society and everybody, and it was a great study. And it was literally like at all costs, we protect these streets. And these other streets, as they need to be redone, they can be asphalted over. And I think that that study was good and still works. But are they following that now? No. Why not? I don't know. Okay, so um to the Brick Street standpoint, though, like one of the points I'm getting crucified on is um the city during part of the consent decree, uh, an add-on spent $1.4 million to salvage bricks off of Elm Street before the consent decree guys went through, um, to salvage antique bricks. And then on the square, they ripped up all those bricks to salvage the antique bricks, saran wrapped them, put them in pretty pallets, hauled them off so that they can be preserved and we can use antique bricks in the future. And that is is fine in concept, except for how much was spent on it when there are the county in their project with the brick streets they're redoing, they're using a modern brick street brick that looks exactly like our antique bricks. Right. I mean, there's some new bricks. Yeah, a lot of them are. Some of it's being new, and they're using some new in the new project. But the reality is, is that has exacerbated the length of this project, and especially the businesses that are suffering down there because of this protect these bricks at all costs. I mean, do you think it exacerbated it that much by just removing the I think it cost well over a month to two months extra on the project? As is right now. Like that's not, and we're we're like they've just done the little college section and the little section on Irwin, right? We're not even we're not even athletes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

Do you think sometimes though, uh, and you probably know this being on the council as a politician that um, you know, accommodations have to be made in order to g gain support, get things passed, and sometimes that uh makes things less efficient and costs some money.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

I do, the problem is is what accommodations were made. You know, like no accommodations made for the streets. I know you're gonna be against us if we don't preserve some of these bricks. Yeah, except for I and I can see that. I don't definitely don't see that on the Elm Street project. Um I think the push, and this would be my push, is to preserve the fact that we have brick streets and make sure they're as original in as possible. Yet when it's gonna cost us three times as much to salvage an antique brick when and those antique bricks are so slick, man. Yeah, they are worn down and when they get wet. The nice thing about the new bricks is they're not slick. Right. It's not it's not a hazard. So there's positive. Well, John, I don't mind the slick roads. I don't, you don't. I don't make money off.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

But uh I don't know if they deteriorate uh over time or whether they'll be be around forever if they preserve them. I don't know if that's an issue.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

I I don't either. From that standpoint, but I would say that I just I just wish that, you know, when you're talking about allowances being made and considerations and things like that, like I fully believe that's the reality, right? That needs to be done. But I think when that's not done considering everybody, that's when people feel stilted and feel like like, hey, you're can, you know, you're considering the antique brick more than the ability for me to get customers in my door.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

Well, yeah, right. Well, you know, and and that the that whole issue down there, ultimately I I think it'll be a net positive economically for the city. It will, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Okay. And I just, it's once again, and and and I know you've done investments and stuff like that. Um your biggest win in any investment is your purchase price. Right? Like that can dictate success of an investment that can like when you're building an investment.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

But there's also a dominant priority, such as a luxury hotel in downtown Tyler, right? Like something like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:41

Well, and I'm not even saying that is an overspend. I have no clue. I haven't looked at the any of the hotel stuff. I have looked at the road stuff. And when you're saying we can have the same thing minus the two lanes versus four lanes on Broadway, we can have the same thing for $10 million less if we would value engineering. Why don't we do that? Do you think it would be that much of a savings? Or are you just using that as an example? I'm using that as an example. I don't personally think it'd be far off from that, but I'm that is just an example.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:12

All right. The hotel, the city, I mean the uh downtown area, when it all gets done, we we pretty much agreed it's gonna be it's gonna make money for the city, right? Anything like that is a net positive. Absolutely. All of this stuff's gonna help. Now, there are some businesses that are having to take the pain. Very much so. Right. Um Do you think the city, I mean, the city has made commercials. I've seen h signs hanging down there. All reactive. That's my problem with that. Okay, you're saying when you say reactive, you're what you mean is that what nothing was done before the pain started? Correct. Uh and then it was in response to the outcry of pain that something was done? Very obviously. Okay. And you say very obviously, I don't really know, honestly, other than just trying to keep up.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:58

You know, I was saying I've been watching it. So what yeah, that's good correction. When I say very obviously, it's not very obviously, but that is what happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:06

I mean, politicians look for critics because uh right? I mean, they could be supporters. Yes, you could. I mean, you know, um uh chef Lance down there's been very vocal. Very vocal. Um and I've never met him, and it looks like he's got a He's a fantastic cook. You should go a fine restaurant. It's amazing. I've been in there once, um, you know, uh, but we hadn't heard much out of Rick's or, you know, we hadn't heard much out of uh Prime 102. Uh Prime 102 has an entrance that's not under construction. Yeah, I mean, I did a show with Steve uh on this show. Yeah. And we broadcast that there was a back parking lot you could slip into. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

You can stay away from the construction there. You can't at Lantis. Yeah. And and Rick's has been, has been, I mean, I I have talked to Rick's. There, they've definitely seen an easy 30% revenue hit. Um, Calilinth Photography put on her website she's seen a 30% revenue hit, um, which is funny because she herself says, like, why am I seeing a revenue revenue? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, maybe I think it's just people being willing to book and come downtown to the studio, period. And I think that is the unknown uh impact on these businesses. It's not even necessarily the people who are already there not frequenting those businesses. It's people hearing about the construction, seeing pictures and being like, I'm not gonna deal with that mess and not coming downtown.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

And so it's coming, though, to the other side. Don Juan's and all those are gonna have to deal with it as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:36

Yes, it is head of their direction. And I think that at some point, like that is that is where the things that need to be changed on this project, and this is really, you know, can I get in there and make it less expensive and change some of the processes? I don't know the answer to that, because the processes that need to be changed are things like what should be happening is things that are going to impact, like, like take culture, Lance's restaurant, right? Or and about to be rick's, where they're tearing it down to the face. There's no way to get in the building. Um, when they're doing that, like that needs to be an around the clock process, right? Like they don't need to be stopping at five and not working on Saturday and Sunday. Yeah. I mean, I but at some point, like it is one of those deals, like, hey, we have we have removed your ability to conduct business completely.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:25

I mean, they'll they'll have some plywood or something surely to get in there, won't they? I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:29

No, Lance's, I mean, they were, it was, it was gone for a couple days completely.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:34

Okay. What what can the mayor do? Let's say right now, you or uh Stuart Haney get elected. Is there anything that y'all can do to even affect this project going forward, or is this just something we can look back, complain about, say it could have been done better, or whatever?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

Um I would say historical precedent says there is stuff that can get in there and do. But I mean, a lot of the mistakes made with this project are were done in the planning and in the contract phase. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:00

I mean they're hard to change.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:02

Well, they're hard to change, but I think you can look forward even in the contract and what's going to be done and try to address things that are coming. One of my favorite examples, I was about to say favorite thing, it's not the favorite thing, favorite examples is there was no uh temporary street lighting in the contract considered in this huge plan with 298 pages. And so when the contractor came down there and tore everything out with all the street lights, when it got dark down there, there was no like you couldn't see to walk down the sidewalk. Well, and a lot of the buildings had to add lights and then uh, you know, then they did temporary lights and stuff, but it was one of the that was a change order because it wasn't contemplated in the thing. And that's the kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:45

But that cost was going to be there regardless.

unknown 1:10:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:48

Well, absolutely. I mean, like, even if it wasn't in the bid, if it was again, it shouldn't have been reactionary. Yeah, and that stuff should be planned for. But uh these plans, though, they're not, I'm assuming they're not drawn by the city, they're drawn by an outside contractor. They're drawn by the engineers and the architects. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

So I mean the city, you know, I mean But it is the council's job to ask those questions, to make sure that the value engineering that can be done is done, that the businesses that can be contemplated, that to make sure that their ease of continuing business is done.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:20

None of that was done. Or they decided that, you know, there's really not much we can do. If we're gonna do this project.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

And maybe that's the case, but I think that and maybe that's why the business owners, for the most part, feel like they weren't communicated with, possibly, but I don't think that's an adequate answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:37

Well, I mean, yeah, that's it's you know uh if you're gonna do this project and it gets set in motion, you know, there's gonna be some casualties, at least in the short run, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

Aaron Powell Yeah. But I mean, I I've spent a stint in commercial construction, and and when we do that, I mean the businesses we're working on, they have to stay open. And I mean, we make un you know amazing allowances to make sure that business is not impeded. Like that is not an uncommon thing in my world. And when it's not allowed for in planning at all, like that's concerning.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:13

You know, um your opponent in the runoff seems to, you know, if I kind of just get a feel for the campaign messaging, it seems to be kind of continue the momentum, you know, further, stronger, you know, something like that, right? Um how would you contrast the message that you've tried to get across as to what your campaign represents?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:33

Yeah. Well, first, I don't think we can afford to continue the current spending momentum. For the reasons that you've said, I think that continuing that is crazy. Like I think the contrast really is just bringing in common sense and practical, like review questions and sense on these things. Like it doesn't mean we don't do projects, but it means we do them as efficiently as possible. Like the current momentum that they want to keep going is why we are where we are. Like we have to have a change. Like we can't be spending these budgets years into the future, and at the same time, we've put this $300 million of consent decree debt on our water bills and not looked for relief solutions anywhere else, right? Like you can't, I mean, they're having their take and they're eating it too, with the taxpayer dollars. And that's that's my problem. And I I have already the lowest tax rate in the state. Like it's a lean, there's not much meat on the bone anyway. But this current spending track that my opponent wants to continue is untenable. And we have to change that. Like we have to correct the course and how we're doing that and how we're budgeting and how we're planning. We've got to quit this reactionary stuff. Reactionary stuff is so expensive.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:05

I mean, let's say you come in realistically, I mean, are you halting projects that you know are on the books that are going forward? Or I mean, or is it simply are you looking at different ways to pay for things, or what are what are you doing specifically, John?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:19

Specifically, well, I mean, I say the only thing that I want to truly affect other than you know, find cost savings and the plan, um it and the downtown project specifically is the narrowing of Broadway. Like I want I want that to go away. But as far as we can't stop the downtown project. Like, I don't want to stop the downtown project. That's ludicrous. That doesn't help anybody or serve anybody. Um and any project that we have currently going, we're not stopping. Like we're gonna review what we can. If there's changes that can be made, just common sense changes to create efficiencies, we're gonna do it. And I am gonna look at everything in that. But anything that hasn't started is gonna get reviewed. Like, I don't like that. I mean, one of the things that happened on the square, you know, that kind of broke the camel's back, as it were, where one of the questions I asked is on the square, their streets are 24 foot curb to curb. Um, city minimum for fire code is 26. And so one of the half-cent meetings, I was like, okay, did y'all give yourselves variants for this? Because you wouldn't let me build a 24-foot wide road. And the answer I got from the project engineer, private project engineer, the paid guy, and then the city engineer probably was like, we talked about it and it's okay. Like that's in a public meeting, like talked about it and then it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:42

I guess. I mean, right? Like, I can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:46

There are some things that for the city, you know, maybe uh there can be uh when you're building something that wide so a fire truck and ambulance can get through the street.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:56

Yeah. Like you're making a variance for the like a fire truck access?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

Well anyway. I mean, you bring I guess what you're saying is and I hear you, you're saying, look, my experience as a builder and a developer make me uh differently qualified than the people that have been looking at budgets as the mayor for the last several terms. Very obviously, in my opinion, yes. I mean, and and you know, that's nothing against anybody, but it has to do with if someone asked me to do a job and it involved looking at contracts and examining the legal implications, I might do a better job than maybe someone else who didn't have a legal background. Correct. And they may be a better person than me, but I may be better at looking at the contracts. Right. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

That is what I'm saying, and that it would be a concerning thing about my opponent, because I feel like these contracts aren't being looked at, and he is in your field.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:53

Well, I'm a person I'm a personal lawyer.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:57

But I think it is one of those deals like I I would I would say that should be an asset, but I would say that, you know, I mean, once again, you know, no no temporary lighting on a downtown project and 24 foot.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:08

I mean you're gonna kill him with a small technicality.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

No. The problem is is the small technicality is indicative of a much bigger problem. Like that's happening everywhere, right? Like if you did I don't know if you heard about the city's agreement with the county. Well, I mean, I know they coordinate uh together, which is good for us, I would think. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Any coordination with the county or anything in the area is good. That's not that's but specifically around the square. So the city doesn't own the green space, right? That's the county. The county owns that. And so um but the city's agreement with the county is wild. It is How wild, John? Indemnification. Uh and indemnification would mean that the city's gonna take responsibility for the green spaces on the square. And who this is probably so much it's questionable to say is maybe being in office. But if you fall and want to soothe the city and the county, because it's county property, the city's indemnifying the county from claims.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:08

But, you know, uh just to come to their defense, I think though if this falls under recreational use or whatever downtown, you know, the laws are written such that it would have to be almost, you know, intentional.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:21

So it would have had to ban. That's a low it's a low bar. It's a low thing to happen. It is one of those deals where then the city has responsibility for construction, ongoing maintenance, policing, mowing. But I mean, they're police in any way, right? Trevor Burrus, Jr. We are police.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:36

I mean, they're down there. It's a it's a little county uh you know, island in the city.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:41

But they're taking over the other one, too, as part of the agreement. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: The one where the courthouse is currently saying. But anyway, that's but as that's not your biggest issue. No, it's not even remote. We've navigated. This is just uh this is just to point out. But if they have festivals or anything down there, so the county's spending nothing, has been indemnified from anything, city runs everything, city has all the expenses. If there's a festival or say say red dirt or something like that, and it produces income, the county gets 60 percent of that. Well, I mean, I guess it's almost like a uh, you know, promoter or venue fee. I guess. I would say except for the city is supposed to do the promotion too. But here's what I would say. That was a great deal for the county. The county just didn't have revenue sources. I can't believe that the city would sign off on that agreement. I think that there's that I think the revenue share part with everything the city was taking on just didn't need to be in there. Anyway, it's just that sometimes you know, political relationships form in order to get things done.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:38

Absolutely. I'm not saying that. All right. Now, you have not you are not uh, at least from support standpoint uh a complete outsider, right? You've recently gotten the endorsement of Nathaniel Moran. Correct. I mean, I saw that that's been how long ago? Uh a couple three weeks. All right. And that uh I guess that endorsement, I don't know if you sought it, if Grassroots of America helped you get it, because I know they support you as well. Uh they were one of my original like first five endorsers, yeah, way back when.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:15

So when you announced, you have I guess you have gotten the endorsements thus far of Grassroots, Nathaniel Moran, and who else involved that you would get together. There's a handful of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:26

I mean, with the uh now that we're in the runoff, like I've I've gained the support of like Kevin L. Tife and and we're kind of working through those lists and making sure that um that we have support there. But I mean, um, Jay Ferguson, I'm thinking like the Gene Shoal, Ed Snodgrass, like people who are involved in the city. So we had we had several handfuls of supporters when we started, but the reality was um it's definitely not something like Nathaniel's um endorsement was offered. Um and so, which is a great honor. Um respect him. He lived in my neighborhood. I know him very well. Um and and he is he is a friend, and I've followed his career and supported him along the way, and he has mine as well. And so, but in that our our whole campaign was always about our platform and not about the typical Tyler campaign of endorsements. Right, you're right. Yeah, you're right. So that has been the focus all along fixing our roads, fixing our water bills, making sure that deals the city's doing are transparent to the citizens. Like that, that's what we built the whole campaign on all the way through, not endorsements.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:46

You're saying this, okay? For someone who was born and raised in Tyler, lived here my whole life. Yes. You were saying that this campaign in your mind is an issue-based campaign versus a popularity contest. 100%. Right? And in Tyler, in the past, you get enough people that sign off on your on your fundraising material, you drag a lot with you, right? Absolutely. Are you saying that you've not benefited from that in this in your mail race?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:16

I would say that I've felt, I mean, especially until like uh Kevin and Nathaniel came on board.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:23

Is Kevin on board? I mean, can you say that like Kevin Elton? He said I could say uh he's supposed to be. Like if somebody called him Kevin, uh John Nix is saying that you're on his team, are you? Yeah. I mean, he said I could say that. Okay. Um And he's a thoughtful businessman for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:39

Well, and he's been a longtime mentor. I mean, he he has been a mentor since I was on P and Z, where I would ask questions about, you know, how we would do things and how the city should run. And when I was a council person, he was too. Um and I I think the way he views specifically municipal government um is right in line with me. Right. And he would say the same thing. And so um, because he has. He did when we talked this week.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:08

But let's face this, because you know, this is unfiltered, and I'm I'm curious. You know, people tag people in nowadays in local political elections, like, oh, he's with grassroots or he's not you know what do you hear that?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:25

I do. And here's here's what I would say to that. Um I'm not a member of grassroots. I'm not a member of Smith County Republican Club. I'm not a member of any of the any of the parties here. But um you know, I've I've heard people be like, oh, well, I'm against you because that person. Or I've had I'm against you because Nathaniel endorsed you. I've gotten that 10 times this week. And I've gotten I'm we're against you because grassroots endorsed you. Like here's the deal. Um back to this is an issue-based campaign. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: You're trying to put together a strange coalition on uh I mean, well, I think it speaks to what we're going for is good government. And if the people are endorsing me because they want good government, you know, I get that you know, people are saying, well, those two things are not the same. You can't have this person over here endorse you and that person endorse you. But the reality is that's not about their specific views on everything. It's about their views of local government, and they want efficient and good local government. And that's what we're gonna bring.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:29

Yeah, I can see that. And I understand that. But you know, like some of the people that frequent, say, culture probably um were dissatisfied with your endorsement from Nathaniel Moran. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:40

Well, uh here's what I would say. I mean, you can call Lance and talk to him about me. Uh Lance and I are our friends and acquaintances.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:48

But you're not politically aligned.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:50

Politically aligned is not even remotely that we are on opposite sides of the planet. Um we have similar views on some stuff and extremely different views on quite a few things. I would say, you know, um, there's been several things I've done that he's been really mad about.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:06

And I'm sure the library thing is one of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:08

He was mad about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:09

And I think that's that's another lightning rod for some reason. Yeah. You just hear people just say, I know, oh, so-and-so is trying to ban books. Okay. So tell us the origin of how you even learned. I wouldn't know a book in that library if you you know, like I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:25

Right? Well, um so this is kind of a multifaceted thing how we got here. But so my daughter is she reads 20 to 30 books a week. She is she has been in that library since she was three years old. Every week.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:40

Because there's only 900 and something library cards, I think, issued or something. There's not a whole lot of. Oh, I didn't even know there was a cap. I thought no, there's not a cap. Oh, I mean only in relation to the number of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:52

My daughter is one of the well and my wife has been on the Friends of the Library board. She's the one that actually instituted their governance and got them with East Texas Communities Foundations. Like, we not only go to the library all the time, like we've been a part of just securing it as far as just making sure that its foundation can last into the future, things like that. So we love the library. But it's not funded by the city? No, it is funded by the city, but they have a foundation that also gives them grants. Okay. Um, and it's a foundation that was funded by a donor a long time ago, and that was one of those deals that was anyway. They can get up grades and get books. It's usually used for books and added programs or something like that. But uh, what happened was is in sept no, it's a it's a bunch of books. Okay. And so what had happened was last September, um, so I've been running since last May, um, last April, last May. And in last September, um a lady came to me and said, Hey, um, these books were in the library. I've been telling the city council about it for over three years and nobody's doing anything about it. And I was like, um, and it was a real- Aren't you thinking like, oh yeah, I really don't want to get involved in this or not?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:07

Or are you like, yeah, let me have them?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:09

No, it was I really don't want to be involved in this. Um but then she started giving me excerpts from the books, and and I started asking for clarification and just being like, so where are these? And because I'm not a book banner, um, I mentioned my both my parents were were public school teachers, like I was raised, like what is written. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:35

I mean, school teachers and libraries are generally more open-minded than Sunday school teachers about what people can read. Right. Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:42

I mean, and so it's definitely not about what people can read, because I have zero opinions about that, and I don't care what you let your children read. That matters nothing to me. I'm not gonna I don't believe in coming into your house. I don't believe in censoring books, I don't believe in banning books. What was happening there? Is there were books that have been found and they were extremely explicit. And when I say extremely explicit, I mean graphic details of bestiality, rape of minors. Um, this is not about sexual orientation or identity either. Okay. So it wasn't this is it wasn't discriminatory against anybody. No, not discriminatory against anybody. And on top of that, you know, what this lady who came to me had been asking is not remove anything, just move them to a section that is not free access for children under the age of 18. Okay. So this is the young adult section? This is the young adult section, which when I got in there, was 13 to 26. I was like, so what a 26-year-old can read as far as, you know, without even Okay, you thought the age gap was too wide. Well, it's a teen section. Like it should be 17 to 13, right? Like 18 and up is is adult. Like it's one of those. And in the teen section, there's a checkout kiosk. I mean, these books were on the same shelves with Harry Potter. And my daughter will mow down a freaking library shelf and open every book over the course of an hour and a half or so on whatever shelf she's on to see which one she wants to take home.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:22

But don't they have these um restrictions, uh protections in place where, you know, the parent determines what on the library card they can check out?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:31

Yeah. Something that was never advertised and only came out as something that was there. Like my wife didn't know my wife didn't know about it. And we've been down there all the time. So that's why those deals was like maybe maybe she wasn't monitoring your children. Like it's one of those deals, and and uh and that's the problem. And I was told, I was told by council people at the time, well, kids kids aren't supposed to be in the library unmonitored. Well, when Caldwell lets out, all the kids whose parents cannot afford aftercare, but their parents can't pick them up till five o'clock, you stand there at 3 to 3 30 any weekday during school, and a hundred to a hundred and fifty kids will walk in that library from Caldwell.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:17

I mean, they're sick of reading, they just got out of class. They're not gonna be checking out any books, are they? Whatever. Um but completely unbodied. In all seriousness, it was it's too explicit. You brought it to somebody's attention. What was the response? Uh a guy, we're not messing with that, and we're not gonna mess with that. Okay. So you're not running for mayor yet, or are you? No, I had already been running for mayor for like six, seven months. Okay, so um Are you being encouraged by anybody other than your wife to pursue this issue? So Grassroots? No. Somebody like that? No.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:51

I mean, no, no input. No input. Now, I believe the lady who originally brought it to me was a member of Grassroots, but she didn't come to me as a member of Grassroots. She was a former library board member, and um later I I believe she was a she was a grassroots member. Well, grassroots had zero input or and they didn't even know I was checking out the books or anything. And the checkout in the books, what that came from is when my opponent went down and yelled at the librarian and made that whole scene. In the days after that, my wife and I were talking, and I was kind of like, if he says he really wants to make change and affect something at the library and do something, what he should do is go down there and check out the library books. And he went down there to check them out, I guess. I guess. I don't know. But my wife and I were sitting there and it was just like, oh my gosh, we should just go check out the library books. So y'all went and checked out. We went and checked out the library books.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:49

And uh are you saying that uh Councilman Haney went down there and checked out the books or went down there and No, he went down there and yelled at the library, and I think about a sign or something, and a couple days later, we went down and checked out the books.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:01

Okay, and there's currently a federal lawsuit right now against you know, him, City of Tyler. Yes. Grassroots.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:12

And a woman named Franklin. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:14

She's an assistant city manager. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:16

Um anyway, it's related to the woman who something happened to her in her employment, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:23

That that outburst and then her employment. And here's what I will say. Um Do you know what? Well, in the in the documents filed at court, I I it said that Councilman Haney went down there and said that here he had been protecting the librarians, library staff for years, and now they'll do this to me and and yelling at her. So I don't I wasn't there. Right. All I have is what I read out. In the paper in the paper.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:51

Um I'm gonna have him on. We're gonna ask him about this. But um, you know, the sign that brought all of this to a head said, a truly great library has something in it to offend everyone, which is a famous literary quote. I mean, I've seen it before. I was gonna say that. I was gonna say that would not ever cause me to immediately look at the library as if you know that there was something nefarious going on down there. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:18

I think, from what I understand and I observed during this time where there was some social media outrage and Councilman Haney went down there, is that it outrage was felt in light of the concerns about the books not being addressed. And so I think that when that sign, which that sign is a famous quote. Like I've I've read it before, seen it before, never thought anything nefarious of it, and agree with it, right? Like, I mean, once again, I don't believe in banning or censoring books. I just I believe that children and especially the public should not be um providing access to pornography or sexually explicit things that can damage a child. I was exposed to pornography as a young child, and it affected me a Playboy in the woods a long time. Right. And it's not I mean it's like there's a Playboy in the woods. It's not something that I mean, and there's many times.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:15

We've got the internet now. Right. I mean, you know, I guess people are less excited about this issue because they look at the other sources of something so much worse.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:25

The difference is the city's not providing you the internet, right? Like the city's not putting those things on the internet for you to view. They are putting these books on the shelves that are not monitored for kids. And once again, like if you as a parent, and I've talked to multiple parents that are literally going to go check these books out when I put them in the ups back at the adult section, for their kids to read. And that is great. Like I have zero opinion about that. The Caldwell kids that are there and their parents have no clue that they're and a lot of those kids, they probably don't even have a library card. When you say there's controls on the library, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:06

When they've been those controls that they've been um Your issue is just simply appropriateness for age. If we put it Appropriate shelving is a great way to put it. Like they need to be on the appropriate shelf. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Because you know they the librarians can't possibly read all the books when they come in, know what all's in them.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:23

You know, and that's and that's the problem. And I think that we've even got some examples. And on my website, by the way, Nick's former or Thrive Tyler, there is a library page where we have downloaded all the PDFs of what these books are, the excerpts. We've we've downloaded all the emails to city council, all the meetings that uh citizens had with Councilman Haney.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:45

Your point are not responsive?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:47

Right. Well, not responsive to this and not in dealing with this issue where they're still making these books available in an in a yeah. Okay, you're saying they're still there. No, well, not the books I have. I think they have I think they have replaced some of the books from what I've heard. And I of I we don't have a library card anymore because we checked out the books and didn't bring them back, they froze our library card. But it's like, okay. Uh but we the books are coming back, every one of the books is coming back, and they're going just on the appropriate shelf. And it is one of those deals where I do not think that's a lot to ask. And I don't think that we as a city should be, you know, go back to your Playboy in the woods comment. Like the city doesn't need to be doing that and then putting a sign out on the road like, hey, by the way, there's a Playboy in the Woods. Right. And that's that is my feeling. I like humor, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:45

I think la people don't laugh enough about even things that are funny that they don't completely agree with. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:51

But that is that is, in my opinion, the issue. Okay. Right. Like, in my opinion, that is the issue. And so they just need to be appropriately shelved. I I've been called everything everything on the internet for this deal. And and I I get it. You know. And I get where that can be misconstrued and stuff, but m that is my intent.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:12

And one of the reasons I had you on the show and wanted to have both of you is because I'm so tired of people labeling everybody. If I say one thing about, like, oh, I don't want to wear a mask, or I don't somebody throws me in a basket immediately. Oh yeah. Right? And and and I've said, no, I don't, you know, I I want to explain myself. And then there's nowhere to explain yourself, right? So I'm sure you've dealt with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:36

I'm telling you again when I heard that.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:37

I'm sure Haney has dealt with it as well. You'll like this one. So back to the, you know, everybody saying that grass grassroots has a they've they've have been, you know, an endorser and but they've not been involved in any of our campaign meetings. They're not involved in our campaign at all. Um I think they did a call for um volunteers during polling, but I I heard the other day that um bought and paid for by grassroots, which is funny. But then somebody took it to another level and they said that I do whatever Trump calls me and tells me to do in the city of Tyler. And um have you gotten a call for right now? Which is I mean, and that's just kind of the level this is going to, right? Like that was that was gospel truth on the internet, right? Like John Nix is doing what Trump tells him to. And I'm like, I've never I've never even been in the same room with a man.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:32

Locally, I would think they would say John Nix does anything Joanne Fleming says, dude. That's that's what I've kind of heard, you know, not necessarily about you, but just about any candidate that they endorse. That they endorse.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:46

Well, I think you can look through my council history, and Joanne and I had many very public disagreements. And and we've had many disagreements after that. Well, I'm sure I agree with her on some things, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:00

I mean it's not like I can just take a hey, I'm all the way against you or all the way for you. Yeah. That's that's another one of those things that aggravates me about politics. You you're all in or you're all out. Right. On every issue.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:12

And but the reality is that here's the deal. Um just like any group in this town that is concerned about our community, and regardless of their, you know, affiliations or whatever, like we're gonna have those conversations, right? Like Joanna and I do not agree on everything by a long shot.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:33

I mean, she had brings with it, you know, a lot of pressure, political power, if you will, to motivate people to vote. I mean, let's just say what she and the group is. Yeah. I mean, historically. That's they've they've they've you know focused on budgets, they've identified people they thought were less than in that regard. Yep. And they've supported other people that said they would. Right. Okay. Um but especially locally, you know.

unknown 1:40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:01

And you can just talk to them. I mean, I'm not against somebody making sure we're not wasting a million dollars, right? I mean, just being common sense about that stuff. Or like, you know, just asking questions. But in government, you gotta have a little bit of a safety factor because, you know, politicians are not business people generally, right? Generally. Uh and this is a shame. And a com deals have to be made in order to get people to support to get stuff done. I mean, there's kind of that little gray area, right? I mean, that is what politics is.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:31

Well, it's making things work, right? Yeah. And so I think but I think then again, that's kind of where where I am too, right? Like it is making things work, but when I don't agree with the priorities you're making things work toward, that is what I want to fix, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:47

All right. You mentioned your website. Your your your campaign is built around around the word thrive, yeah. And we'll go through this quickly. And then I want to finish with uh, you know, five questions that I wanted to ask you and then ask uh uh candidate Haney as well. Okay, they're not uh gotchas or anything, but they're just more general concepts. But yeah, we've talked a lot about transparent leadership. You've mentioned in your uh in your thrive. Uh, let's just focus on uh is there an example of a closed-door emergency meeting that you felt like should not have been that you were referencing? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:21

I mean they're gonna go back to the library now. And so Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:25

No, I wasn't trying to go through.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:26

No, no, no. But that is uh the emergency meeting specifically I want to reference is there were board members on the library board that wanted to take action on this book deal. And what they did is back to our volunteer board sign-up, right? You fill out a thing at the planning and zoning. And so what the city does is we take all those applications when you're on council. You know, the councilman take all those applications, go through them, discuss who they're gonna put on what boards. Well, as a result of the library issue going on, a bunch of people who wanted to add strength to the people who wanted to take action on the library board submitted their application to be on the library board. And it was set for a council agenda. And then when all those people showed up to speak on it, they were told, oh, we had an emergency meeting last week and we filled all these positions. And you're not in them. And you're not in them. Okay. And so that would be specific to the emergency meeting reference. And that's, I mean, you can look that up, right? Like that's not public record.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:31

I was just looking for an example because I'm not as aware of that of the ends and outs.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:36

It really is the deal. And here's what I would say too kind of my thoughts there is things like the dog and pony show I referenced on the square that I heard two years ago, that was in a off-site city council workshop that they invited half-cent members to because they were going to run it through the half-cent budget. And that was not videoed or filmed or put out for people to see. I believe things like that. And that does happen sometimes, right? Anytime there's a legal issue or executive session, there are there are laws and there are reasons you do that is to protect the city. But all these others, you don't have to do that. Right. Right. I mean, like that dog and pony work session I'm talking about, like that should have been put out to the public, right? Because public has no clue. Like it's I mean, everybody thinks it's the first time they've ever heard about it when I say on Broadway.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:26

If you get elected, people are gonna remember this conversation. Yeah. They're gonna say, hey, John, you're trying to get something done. And uh you're not one to have it on TV, you're not one to video. You know, it's like, right, you know, you gotta be careful what you wish for.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:39

Absolutely. And and those lines are literally like, so contracts when the city sued, like those business deals that could put the city at a disadvantage from outside contracts stuff like that stuff, still has to remain in executive session. Things like listening to a presentation from the engineers for why we should do the downtown project, like I would want the citizens to have access to that. Even if it's not the same thing, have them do a special presentation that's the same they gave the city that you do for TV so that we can produce. And if you weren't able to make it to the meeting, you can see it. So when I'm saying transparency, that is about those kinds of emergency meetings not happening. We've never had an emergency meeting to fill volunteer positions at the city before uh on our volunteer boards. Uh there may have been a meeting in the past to fill a sit a position on council or something. I don't know about that, but never for the library board.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:35

All right. Definitely uh an outlier in your mind, uh something unusual. But on the helping citizens, let's just focus on the city staff will be trained to serve you with respeed, respect, helpfulness, and care. Uh is there anything there that you've experienced or anybody you you uh have talked to experienced there that caused you to include that sentence?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:54

Yeah. Um and here is a here's a great thing about this whole platform. When my wife and I started just made the decision to run, and I started running, we said, so what happens if they fix this stuff while we're running? And we said, well, then we would have gotten something done while we're running, and half of it'll be done by the time we get there. So I'll say that specifically was at people's issues with water bills, not getting responsiveness, um, people having things like I had an old lady call me and be like, I was out of town for six weeks, and I got a $1,500 water bill for the six for four weeks out of the six weeks I was gone, and I've had a plumber come, I've got no leaks or anything. And when I've called the city, there's like, you pay that bill or we're shutting off your water. And I've got countless stories like that. Has that improved since your campaign? That I do believe has improved. Not completely, but I know responsiveness from the city, specifically on water bills, has gotten better. I still think there's a lot of issues, but um, I would also, we're gonna go to roads and sewers, but one of my consistent deals was potholes. So when I was on council under Martin Hines, Martin Hines was the mayor, and I was on council, and we had, you know, I already mentioned we increased road funding, road maintenance funding so much. And but uh, one of the initiatives we had that happened pretty much the whole time I was on council was if you reported a pothole on the app or you called in and report a pothole, there was asphalt in that pothole within 24 to 48 hours. It did not matter north, east, west, south. I mean, that's tough. In town.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:38

It is that's tough. But if you stay on top of it, you can do it. Because water and rain are are the enemy of roads. Absolutely. And then if if there's a cheaper aggregate that's chosen, then they might not last.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:52

Even if it well, a lot of times they don't, but the deal is we've got extensive pothole patches, but what they were doing was is waiting until the big machine or the good machine could get there to fix it instead of, I mean, just throwing asphalt in there, tamping it down with a tamper, I mean, making it nice. Like that may that may be temporary, but it's still gonna fill the pothole. But it's one of those deals where we had potholes that we had, you know, marked and watched that hadn't been filled for six, seven, eight months. One of my favorites is down in South Tyler. It's had a street uh sandwich sign over it, said City of Tyler Streets. And it was there for seven and a half months. Hold on, they said warm about it. But then two weeks ago, two weeks ago, they filled it. The city put out a thing on our website and said, Hey, and I've been talking about this for a year, right? We'd filled them in 24 hours. The city put out a thing. You can look on their Facebook and it said, Hey, if you report a pothole in the app, we'll now have it filled within 24 to 48 hours.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:50

I mean, you should feel good. I feel great if some of this stuff you have initiated or at least encouraged them incentivizably. Because nobody wants to get a damaged rim or have a problem with their car. So we've talked about intentional accountability, you know, we've talked about fees that you know, you don't I understand your position there. Right. Visionary planning, we've talked about that. Like we've, you know, we have to Well, but we can kind of talk a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:18

I think that We can uh kind of the heart of that would be things like um we are gonna need a sewer plant. And stop the stink. That's one of the reasons. That goes away with the new st with the new sewer plant.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:33

Okay, because a lot of people around some very high-paying property tax areas are dealing with the stink. Well, they are. The plant was there first. I will say that. Okay. But the city still the city also benefits from all of the development and the property tax revenues from a forest turning into a Holly Tree neighborhood.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:55

But here's the deal. Twenty-five to thirty years ago, we bought the land for the new sewer plant. And it's in South Smith County, and it's one that can gravity feed everything south of Rose Hill Cemetery, basically. And gravity feedback. You mean no pump pressure necessary. Right. And those that I mean, that's imp that's really good. And that's important because when you have pumps and lift stations and sewage, there's those things fail. Breakdown. Maintenance breakdown, and none of that's good, right? Sewer sewer pumps failing is bad real fast. But so when I got on council, I was like, man, that's great. We've already, you know, our forefathers have planned this. And it's like, so how are we getting there? And they're like, oh, well, we don't know how we're getting there. So it's like, so there's no, there's no surveyed route. There's no, we don't have the easements to get there. It's like, no. So Mayor Hines uh allowed me to spend like half a million dollars a year every year I was on council. Um, and we made the route, got a surveyor, did all that, like made sure we could get a gravity line all The way there, and we shot it and we figured out what our easements should be. And we were supposed to start buying the easements. Well, as soon as I rolled off council, that budget item went bye-bye. Because of your relationship to Martin Hines? No. Well, I'm just saying you guys had kind of the same vision for simply two guys. Yeah. And then you guys were both called. Yep. And then it just stopped. So nothing's so we know where we need to go. We still don't own the route. So the day we wake up and we need this sewer plant, I I I akin it to uh a graveyard plot. You know, if you go buy a graveyard plot, they ask you, are you in need or are you not in need? And the price is different. The price is very different. It's like two, three times.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:45

But but you know, me being a a personal injury lawyer, familiar with the laws uh where things happen, the eminent domain laws have strengthened for the states over the last 10, 20 years dramatically, right? I mean, you the the holdouts really can't change what they get much. It's going to be fair market value.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:04

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, but the reality is that's back to my in-need or out of need. Like in need, we're having to do imminent domains and stuff. If you're doing it out of need, we're just we got plenty of runway to get out there and make reasonable deals with landowners to have access in the future. So that's the kind of things where we're not doing that.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:23

Business. Okay. This the theme that you seem to suggest without saying it all the time is a capacity for business that is to understand how things get built, not overnight, how things have to be thought about ahead of time and planned for. That's what you kind of keep saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:42

It is. And I here, I think there's there's some caveats to that that hogtie our city, frankly. Right. And part of that is our term limits. I am everybody should have term limits guy. I firmly believe that. Here's what I will say our city of Tyler term limits put us in a position where this sewer plan I'm talking about, like it's a it's a 10 to 20 year planning project. And if the guys who need to be planning on it and putting money toward it are only going to be around for six, like, is it their priority?

SPEAKER_02 1:52:16

And a working committee of some kind that extends beyond and new people come on as old people stay and go off.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:23

With with the vision that that puts these things, especially these big infrastructure things, like we are going to need a new water plant for more capacity from Palestine or expand our current water plant at some point. And this sewer plant's going to have to be built at some point. And it is one of those deals where when the guys who control the budget have zero impetus to pay for that now, like that is just kicking the can to our kids. And that's the kind of stuff we we have to put processes in place. I love your idea of a separate committee. I haven't thought about that in relation to specifically that. I thought about it in relation to the water bills. We're going to do that with our water rate structure. We're going to bring in guys from other water systems and even in our community to actually speak into what we should be doing on our water rates and our water billing. But I love that idea of having a committee that creates continuity on that. I'm just here for the city. Right. No, but seriously, it's like you immediately identified like that is there needs to be some cohesive contention.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:26

If it's a neat in the future, there needs to be a thought about it now. Right. And obviously, they bought the land. Somebody went that far, and we're not like, why does our stink great? Inquiring minds want to know, John Nichols, why does it stink? So do you know what we pump into the sewer plant down there? Um No, I try to, you know, I've heard about the process before, and and it sounds horrible. And I'm like, how is that our drinking water? That's not our drinking water. Okay, good. Does it go to a water treatment plant though? No.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:56

Okay, good. There are some cities that do that. I know that's Wichita Falls has a black water plant. And that means it's taken sewer water. Sewer water field. So so I mean, this is the way it happens. So whether people want to hear it or not. But basically what happens is um all the sewage goes to the plant, it is treated, it's aerated essentially to where the solids and the water are separated. The water is then treated again, and then the water goes into a creek. Okay. And then eventually gets to Lake Tyler or Lake Palestine. And so, I mean, it it comes, it comes full circle.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:33

It comes full circle.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:35

But the reality is, is that's how the process works, right? And so it stinks over there at given times of the process. Yeah. Okay. And the and the solution for that, if there is one, would be what? It needs to move. Okay. When I was on council, I think I can't remember how many. Is it gonna stink wherever it goes? Or is there some dome that you put on it to stop the smell?

SPEAKER_00 1:54:53

Okay, so I've heard the dome argument, and I've not researched the dome argument. I don't know. Because here is my first blush response to the dome argument. So sewage produces gas, right? Right. I mean, it's like some kind of methane or something like that. What are you gonna do with a dome over a gas producing thing? Anyway, they may have a special dome that I have not researched at all. But at first blush, the think of something that produces methane gas sitting underneath the dome really sounds like you're making a bomb to me. But and then uh yeah, effective management, we've talked about that too. Well, you're just and I and I don't here's the deal. I've I've heard the fear-mongering that I'm gonna go in and just roll the city up into a ball, and you know, and and it's just not true. Like, my goal is to make sure that we're running as efficiently as possible and make sure that we have policies in place. Like, I believe this whole library thing would have been completely avoided with just good policies. Like the books I'm talking about that need to be reshelved are not allowed in any of our school libraries in the state because of what's in them.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:07

Aaron Ross Powell Okay. So you say there's a precedent for that. That's not you and your wife starting some brand new, brand new, you know, uh crusade of some kind. No. They're already not allowed in school libraries. All right. Let's go with here's the last five. Okay. And these are uh I wrote these and I thought, you know what, I'd like to ask both of these guys, and uh it's a range of things, including the obvious, which the first one is why do you want to be mayor?

SPEAKER_00 1:56:31

I want to be mayor because when I identified these issues and looked at who was on council and who was running for mayor, I truly don't believe anybody's gonna do the work that needs to be done to address these issues. And I will, and I've proven that in the past, and that's you know, it's what I do.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:54

All right, you say you're more committed, more experienced, and you know, already have knowledge about the city.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:00

I think I'm uniquely qualified to address the issues the city currently has.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:03

All right. And that's my next question. Why will you be a better mayor at this moment in time for Tyler as opposed to some other point in time? What is it about now?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:13

I think that right, it's because it's because of what needs to be fixed right now. That's what we've been talking about. Yeah. Okay. I think, yeah, our conversation is I mean, that is it, man. This is this is the stuff that needs to be addressed. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:25

And this kind of connects to at the end of six years, can you know, assuming that you're elected and re-elected and you're term limited, right? Like the mayors before.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:34

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:34

Um, how's the city better uh because you were the mayor uh over that six-year period of time?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:40

Yeah. So I think that what I like to point to is um we're gonna address uh very specific things. And I've already kind of had a whack at it, so to speak, right? Like when I was on council, Martin a lot more than Martin was a very um efficiency and infrastructure-driven mayor as well. And I would say that the council I was on at that time was all aligned and we fixed a lot of stuff, and a lot of our fixes are gone six and seven years later. And that's been something I've been watching. And then I look back to what Kevin did 30 years ago, and frankly, a lot of the changes he made, and I'm sure the same thing happened to some of his changes, they went away in five to six years, but there were some fundamental changes and culture changes he made at the city that lasted decades. It was more business like and and that is why right now and and why those things. And because I think that I've already seen quote changes that didn't take. And I've seen how fast they can disappear. And so they need to be done different, they need to be fixed different so that they last, and so that when we hand this thing off to the next mayor, like he is in a great position in coasting. And I'd say one of one of the things that surprises me in that, and I really don't want to squirrel too much here, and I'm sorry, but when I was on council, we were planning for when we had money, because we had like 1% and half percent growth every year. This council for the last six, seven years, they've had five percent years, they've had eight percent year, all growth. Like their revenue is up 50% from when I left council to now. And they've had money, and yet things like the roads have not had any increase in their maintenance funding.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:41

They've devoted that maybe to downtown and and the sewer project that's been forced upon us.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:46

Well, but they're paying for consent decree with uh water revenue bonds.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:50

They're not paying for that at a revenue. Let me hit this little subplot of that last question, just so I get it in. And it's important, I think. Um, public transportation, for I've seen, because I'm I'm a very aware person. I watch people, I see how fortunate I am, uh, how less fortunate many people are. Yes. And, you know, uh I I think the mayor kind of sets the tone and the priorities, right, for the budget, for what uh is gonna be, you know, the parks, for instance, were a big deal to Don Warren. So was transportation. Right. And those I mean so is public transportation. And then those things might not be something that you and I ever utilize, or we might a little bit, right? Right. But it's a quality of life issue for people who don't have much more or other ways to get around. Right. 100%. And so if you're elected mayor, as you look at the savings in other places, the process is being better, would you also keep in your mind, you know, that there are those these out here where services could be cut, but it would be disproportionately painful.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:00

Well, and public transportation is actually a very unique animal in that in the city budget in that statement. So it's one of the one of the things we get a lot. Not a lot. A lot is the wrong word. We get um more than in almost any area other than the airport of federal aid. And so most of the programs we have are either required because of the size of our city is. There's a lot of programs we have for public transportation that are federally required because we're a city over 100,000.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:36

And we can't we can't count on ourselves to do it if we're not forced to it. That's right. Okay, I mean obviously with a consent decree. But saying if we don't fix the sewer, we're not gonna have a bus for a guy to get a ride to work. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:48

And and it is one of the, yeah, and if the road's undrivable, like all those things. Like it really does, in my opinion, I'll come back to infrastructure. But uh public transportation is something that is in our town some it needs some deep solutions. And it needs some deep solutions all the way back to planning and zoning. And I'm gonna say that from a standpoint that our planning and zoning is not conducive to creating population centers. And what makes public transportation successful or even feasible anywhere is the fact that you can run a bus route uh through highly or more densely populated areas. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Tower's a hard place to get around. And it is it is a hard place. And we've got actual zoning laws that discourage us from even like in parts of Broadway, like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't change the density here. It'll tight traffic. Don't change the density there. So the first thing that and I I mean, I mean this, right? Like, I mean, it is about how you're planning your city. Um, because how your city is made up completely dictates if any public transportation system is even going to be successful or effective, right? I mean, it is one of those deals like if if they're driving 10 miles to a population center and they're driving through single-family homes that don't need it for 10 miles all the way to the other side, that is never gonna be effective or really useful public transportation, right? It's never going to sustain itself. It's never gonna last. And not that it needs to sustain itself. That's why there's federal grants and stuff, right? Like fundamentally, it usually doesn't, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:31

Not everything in government is meant to be a business decision. Some of it has to be you know, it's a service to the citizen general welfare.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:39

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Service to the citizens. Absolutely. And that's what the city is at the end of the day. It's not supposed to generate revenue, it's supposed to be a service to the citizens.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:47

Well, and so I mean, in order to get all this revenue, uh the you know, it's question four. Do you believe coordinating with the county and the TEDC is is you know pretty important to maintain that relationship and coordination? It's fundamentally important.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:03

I mean, what the county can offer as far as uh growth potential and land to people that are come businesses that are coming in, say factories or whatever it is, plants, and what the TEDC does to just connect the dots on that and sometimes put real dollars behind, right? Like they bought land. Yep, bought land, they've they've you know sold land at a loss to to make sure a deal worked. Um and so, but the city will always as the predominant utility company for wet utilities and the county and for the hub that we are, like it has to be in that discussion. It has to be a primary part. We have to more than, you know, we don't just participate in a word, we have to participate in action and actually helping those things happen.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:52

Well, I had Scott Martinez on the show and he said he's great. When uh I I you know, I said everybody run, he said, I can work with any of those people. So, you know, that sounds like the, you know that that wouldn't be problematic for what they've done and your administration if you're elected. No. No. All right, last one is always, you know, I always love this in politics, uh, because the other people can never say anything nice about each other. Okay, and this isn't Stuart. What has Don Warren done well as our mayor?

SPEAKER_00 2:05:22

Don so uh Don and I were on Planning and Zoning together, and then we served on council together as councilman together. So I've known Don for a long time. I love Don, and I mean that sincerely. And honestly, everybody that was even in the mayor's race that isn't anymore, and and Stewart, like the beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:42

There's no bad guy here. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:43

Right, that's and it really is a different set of priorities, and that's it. There's a competent field, and it's narrowed to two. Yeah, right now, but back to Dawn, uh kind of in that context, like Dawn Dawn is so much fun, and I truly believe that his goal is to make this town the best place and the funnest place possible to live. And where people all people get along. All people get along. That's kind of his thing, isn't it? Yeah. And he I mean and it's not fake, right? No, no, I think it's Don is real.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:23

The parks is the parks. Yep. And you know, um he rides in the Juneteenth parade, he goes to this, he I mean, he shows up to stuff that he could not go to hundred percent and not get any criticism.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:37

Yeah. Right? No, and and I I I mean it. I love Don. I think that um I mean he just really is. He's a lot of fun. I know he's mad at me right now because of my stance on the square stuff. And but I, you know, I don't it it is literally It's a friendly madness. It is for me. It is for me. Hopefully we get back to where we can talk to each other again. Um but um I do not it's all gonna work out eventually one way or another, right? In that way, look at it. And I do not this is I don't disparage uh Don's heart, motive, or anything. I don't necessarily agree with the method or his priorities, but that has nothing to do with what he has desired for our city and what he strives to do. Um he's great. He really is. And so uh that's that's my opinion about Don. And um I think uh I don't think anybody would have done what he's done for our parks. I don't think I don't think anybody, and I say that with myself in that line, right? Like I would not, and and has that been a benefit and nice to the whole absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:52

Do you think that same love of city was the driving force behind the downtown project?

SPEAKER_00 2:07:56

I think it could have been. I just I just, you know, like I said, you know, my issues are are execution and that. And that has once again, I'm for the downtown project. It needed to be updated. I'm down there with my wife all the time, eating dinner and you know, on date night. And so I'm a fan and and it needed to be done. So that's that's not what's in question in my mind.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:19

Well, John, I think we've gotten to know you a lot better. Uh, I don't know any place where someone could listen to you talk and learn about you and what you think and what you've done and what you care about and what you see for the future. And so uh I just appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks for watching. Thanks for having me. It's a great opportunity. It was nice to meet you too.