EAST TEXAS UNFILTERED w/J. Chad Parker: Featuring Rosie Bowie

Rosie Bowie joins East Texas UNFILTERED with J. Chad Parker. They talk about her life in Tyler. They also talk about the Juneteenth parade she helped build to what it is today. Rosie grew up in Flint, Texas. Her mother raised seven children alone. Rosie graduated from Emmett Scott High School in 1968. It was an all-Black school.

Rosie went to work at the GE plant in 1972. Later she went back to school. She earned a college degree in 2002. Then she became a social worker. She also joined groups like the NAACP. She spent her life helping people.

Rosie has helped lead the Tyler Juneteenth Association for almost 45 years. She shares behind the scenes details about the Juneteenth parade in North Tyler. She explains what June 19th really means to her. She wants young people to learn the history because it is so important. It is a strong East Texas conversation about family, faith, history, and freedom. Be sure to like and subscribe for more great East Texas stories like Rosie’s.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Is it usually just the first Saturday after June the 19th? Is that how it normally Yes, it's usually a third weekend.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Whatever day it's on that third weekend, it's the Saturday before Father's Day.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Unfortunately, the holiday is on the weekend, so nobody gets a day off from work. Exactly. Right? I mean that wasn't planned well. No. Now, the Juneteenth uh situation, and uh for people who've never seen this parade, I mean it is a sight, right? I mean, right there. This is this is kind of what brought us to this show. Uh this is a neighborhood event, right? I mean it runs right through what the heart of what you would call North. North correct. You know, people eat, people congregate, people visit, it's very friendly. Because y'all just kind of organized something that started at St. Louis Park where people brought their own food. But most of it, we started out, we did it ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

The different clubs and organizations would buy the food and we serve it at the park.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Welcome to another episode of East Texas Unfiltered. I'm your host, Jay Chad Parker. Today we've got a guest with us that's very interesting. She's gonna talk about a parade that many of you um have probably never heard of, and certainly most of you have never seen. We're gonna do our best to explain to you what it is, why it happens, where it all comes from, and what it looks like. It's a part of our city, it's an important celebration each year. Rosie, thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Now, Miss Bowie, as they call you, right? Yes. Miss Bowie is a uh currently a substitute teacher. Yes, I am. Uh did you teach previous or were you a nurse prior?

SPEAKER_02 1:37

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Tell me what you were.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

I always wanted to be a teacher, but I didn't go to college for that. I went for a social worker. All right. So that's when I'm a retired licensed social worker.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

And uh the the social work that you did was was it uh for some organization like CPS or what what was it for? How did it how did it work?

SPEAKER_02 1:54

It was for the Northeast Texas Public Health District. I worked for the state and the federal with independent, with individuals and uh community and families.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

College, I guess you had to get a college degree to have this kind of profession? Yes. Anything beyond just college? Some people have graduate degrees and all this for social work. Did did you have any of that?

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Yeah, I have a bachelor's degree from Stephen F. Austin State University.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

What year was that? I graduated in 2002. Okay. Well that's good. I mean, that says that you actually went back and you were dedicated to getting your education, right? Correct. You're correct. Yes. What did you do for a living before getting that degree?

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Before I received that degree, I was employed for the General Electric Company back in 1982. I mean 72. I'm sorry. It was 72. And I injured both hands during my employment thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Were you on the line somewhere?

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Yes, I worked on the line, used air gun. The air gun wasn't built property properly, and it twisted my wrists, and it continued carpeting both hands. And I continued to have several surgeries on both hands in Dallas, Texas. And uh the doctor said I couldn't do that kind of work anymore. So then I uh decided to go back to school through TRC, Texas Rehab bill. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I mean they helped you, right? Yes. Get uh find out if there was grants, stuff to make it financially possible to go to college.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Exactly. And the train air conditioned company did also. Okay. Yeah. Uh they said I was the first employee that had ever gone attend college and graduated and uh and and went back to work. Most people when they're on disability, they don't go back to work. They don't I look for something to do that wasn't my um I didn't want to do that. I want to do something. I want to help people. I want to be active in the community.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

And that's a good point. You know, there is this thought that a lot of people seek to get on disability with no intention of ever returning to the workforce. Exactly. Right? Yes. And you went and got retrained and actually got a college degree and went to work as a social worker when?

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Uh that was in 2002. All right. Now it's recent I re I was hired when I graduated. Did you retire from this at some point? Yes, I did. I retired in 20 um 20 Did COVID push you? 12 or 14. No, no, no, no, no. It was about twenty twenty twenty fourteen, I believe. Twelve, twenty twelve.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

All right. And then uh I don't know if you retired, you uh went to Social Security and then uh, you know, I don't know how you plan that out afterwards, but I retired from that position of social work and um and I didn't work for about a year, just I'm gonna take off and just travel and do a little few things with my class of six date on Emmett Scott.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

And then that well, I decided I wanted to go back to work and sub. And that's what I did. I returned to T I S D sub, and I've been a sub now for about 14 years.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Now you mentioned Emmett Scott, and for people who aren't from Tyler or they're very young, they won't understand what Emmett Scott was. Um you graduated in 1968? Correct. Tell everybody what Emmett Scott High School was.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Emmett Scott High School was an all-black school. It was not integrated. Of course, we didn't integrate here in TISD to 1970. But that was an excellent school. We learned. We uh received uh books and deaths from other schools, from white schools. That's what we received most of them. But our teachers that we had were excellent, and they taught us. Uh the pages that were missing out of those books, they put it in for they could teach us. So we all learn. So we have doctors, attorneys, um nurses, a lot of people came from uh that school. We still learn. We may not even have all of the material that we should have had, but we learned.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Right. And and what you're mentioning for the uh history majors out there, or for the people that don't know history, um, is that there were Supreme Court rulings that uh one started off Flessy versus Ferguson, which was separate but equal. Yes. Right? That was the language used by our Supreme Court, where uh the schools remained separate, but it was indicated that they would be equal. And this is how there happened to be or was a black high school, right? That's correct. Uh-huh. And did you grow up your entire school system going only to school uh with other black children, African American children?

SPEAKER_02 6:28

No, not any other. Um I was raised in Flint, Texas. Okay. I was born here in Tower, but my father was killed in a car wreck in 1957. My mother raised seven children by herself alone. I think four or five of us attended college. And uh she never did remarry. And um uh she at that time when my father was killed in the car wreck, um, the youngest child was six and the oldest was ten.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

So there was uh five boys and two girls. So there was a lot of kids uh between six and ten. Yes. Your mother had a huge responsibility. Ten months old. Ten month old. She had a I mean the six-month-old, I'm sorry. It was six-month-old. Oh, okay. Yeah, there was still a lot of kids in there. Seven. Now, I was gonna ask you this, but you answered it. I was gonna say, were you the first person in your family to get a college degree, or did you have other siblings that went on and got degrees? I was the second one. Oh, you were the second one.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah. The other was a ten, but they didn't graduate because my brother, when you finished when you left, retired from college from college, from the military, he um he did some schooling, and then another brother went to some schooling, but they didn't graduate college.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Well, as we you've mentioned a few things about your family uh in earlier life. So I'd like just to circle back and kind of get a feel for this. You said you were born in Tyler, Texas. Yes. Uh do you remember what hospital?

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Midwife.

unknown 7:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

I can't think of name of Rose something. But I mean it was a midwife.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

And is there any particular reason, you know, like some people that were born and raised here say, well, I was born at Mother Francis, right? Like I mean, you know, that type of thing. Uh was it available to you uh at the time or or was it just what your mother did?

SPEAKER_02 8:11

You know, I had never asked that question. I don't know whether it was available or not. But most of the babies that were delivered in those times was by midwives. And I don't know, just a custom of her family doing that, our family.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

But when you say those children, are you talking about black children and people that you're aware of? Yes. They you there was people trained that were midwives? Yes, yes. Um, I mean, because that seems like you know, that'd be scary uh nowadays. But a lot of people did it.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yeah, midwives were some family members from what I could hear. Some were family members that were midwives. Well, now And I'm sure we could go to the hospital, but I don't know why my mother I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, I mean, I you know, uh I was just curious, you know, as a historian type, like, you know, back in what year were you born? 1950. Okay, so I'm thinking 1950, Smith County, Texas, you know, can everybody just go to the hospital and say, hey, I'm pregnant, I'm about to have a baby, or, you know, um, or is it something your mother just never contemplated because she'd always taken care of it, you know, outside of of a of a healthcare system?

SPEAKER_02 9:18

I am thinking I was the third child. The other one I think was born in Hosfield.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Okay. Uh obviously, you know, um people that are as old as we are, or you know, know that there was certainly an evolution in social policy uh and you know, reducing prejudice and discrimination as time went on that made things available that were not available previously.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

That's correct. Right? Yes, correct. Because I know when we went to the doctor's office, we had a certain sit in a certain area behind a curtain with wooden seats, wasn't comfortable. And we see the doctor after they've seen everybody else. And when we had to take those shots and everything, we had to go down to the health department and stay outside in a long line in the rain or cold, waiting to get in to take uh get vaccinated shots. Are you talking about the polio vaccination? The polio vaccination, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Because I believe the polio vaccination um was um I think 1954 or 56, I'm not sure. I think the guy's name was Solkin. I think he was an African American. That's correct. That I mean, most people at that point kind of goes over their head. Like, you know, the person who actually uh uh uh invented the uh polio vaccination was African American. Yes. Um and the irony would be that, you know, that you guys would have to, you know, go somewhere and and and wait around to get the vaccination, right? Exactly. Um But I know, you know, and that's what I've always admired about a lot of people that I've uh known that were older here in Tyler is that many people who had every reason to be bitter and look back and be angry uh at the things that they experienced didn't seem to really have that bitterness, and you seem like kind of one of those people. Do you feel that way? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

I mean Because taking those shots, um, they only they came to the uh schools. We took them at the school and they came to the churches also, the black churches.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

To uh because you know, back then people were seriously concerned about polio. Yes, very much so. Some people wouldn't be affected, but others might end up paralyzed. Correct. I mean, there was a wide range of symptoms. Okay, so you're born in 1950. Uh you say your father was killed in 57. Correct. So during this 50 to 57, you guys are living out there in Flint, Texas, somewhere? No.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

All right, we're we didn't we did not move to Fit Flint, Texas till after my father was killed. My mother bought a home and property in Flint and had a house built to raise all us in.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Before that, before she did that, where did you guys live? We lived in the Butler College area. Okay. What people would part of what people would call North Tyler. No. No. That was West Tyler. Okay. Butler College. Give us an indication for the people who are listening that don't know the difference of where, you know, the graveyard is versus Butler College versus, you know. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

We lived over on Hurst Street. You know where W. A. Pete is? That area over in there, that's where we live. W. A. Pete Elementary School. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

There were some apartments over there that we lived in.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Um and you live there, uh, mom, dad, everybody?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah, my daddy worked in Dallas. Okay. He was killed coming from work, coming from Dallas in a car wreck by himself. I think they say went to sleep.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

What did he do in Dallas? Did you ever know?

SPEAKER_02 12:32

I think my mother said he worked at a spice place or something that made some kind of spices or something.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

I just didn't know if he traveled for better pay or better employment. He was. You know, than there was available around Tyler in the 1950s.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Yeah. That's the reason he went. He worked, he had a very good job paid well, from what she told us. And she just recently died in 23 at 98.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Your mother? Yes. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

I mean And see, she my father was 33 and she was 32 when he passed when he was killed.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

You um you say your mom somehow did you ha somehow she had money, saved money, got money in order to buy a house in Flint? Well, she received the money from his benefits from his death. He was insured well. That's what I was about to ask. Was there some lawsuit, insurance benefit, or something?

SPEAKER_02 13:18

I don't think it was a lawsuit. It was insurance.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Okay. Yeah. Well, that was certainly fortunate for you guys and responsible on his part to have that, wouldn't you say? Exactly. I mean, because he could have left y'all in a bad way. She could have. Um You're correct. I mean, because the first place you the first thing you need is a place to live in order to get a start to go do anything, right? Exactly. Um, how long did you live out there at Flint with your mother and family? Oh, my life till I was grown. Really? The whole time.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

The whole time. After we left Towler, you know, in the Butler College area. That's what we're doing. That's when we moved down in the area in uh Flint. She had home built down there.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

57, somewhere around. 57, correct. All right. So you're over there, your mom, your siblings. Describe the place. I mean, for us that are, you know, we're ta we're trying to go uh time traveling, right? We're going back. It's 57, 58. What does it look like out there and where are you living? Okay, we lived on Old Lake Palestine Road.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

The house that it was built, well, after time it started deteriorating. So that was torn down and she had another house moved in. And but the property and everything is still there. And when we first moved down there, we was going to the wrong school. We was going to White House School. That's a long way away. Yeah, and we was in Tyler District, but we weren't aware of that.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

And Bullard wasn't built then, was it?

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Mm-hmm. Bullard was there. That was too far down. Yes, Bullard Bullard was there.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Yeah. But we was going to Stanton High School, and that was in the White House district. And so we was informed that we was attending the wrong school, so he moved all us from that area in Flint to Tyler School. We was in Tyler District.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

All right. Now, and the Tyler district, so we don't get confused, was to an all black district. Correct. Right. I mean, when we say that, I mean, the school systems were segregated completely when you grew up. Yes. I mean, you never went to school with a person that was white, Hispanic, or any anybody else, right? No, I never did until I went to college. When you think back on it, um I'm because I'm trying to okay, you're born in 50, you're 10 and 60, you're 18 and 68, okay? I'm just trying to let's frame this for the viewer, right? Because this is one of the the most interesting and worst uh periods of history in the United States, right? I mean um the Vietnam War gets kind of bubbling up. President Kennedy gets killed in November of 1933. Do you remember that? Yes, I do. I mean, do you remember President Kennedy being an advocate for African Americans back then and your mom talking about it? I mean, or was it even discussed?

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Yeah, we watched it, we watched it, yes, very much so. And in school we was taught, yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Because I mean, you think about it. You you're hearing the first conversations of you know, fairness, equity, integration, and this is only 63 when he gets killed, right? That's right. 63. As you said, it's not till 1970 till the schools integrate.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

That's correct.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

So, I mean, you're watching TV, you're hearing a president talk, you know, and then you see him get killed. I mean, um d give us some sense as to what you were thinking and how you felt like that might affect progress for black people at that point.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Yeah, I know we was um I was downhearted about it because we know that he was trying to help us pull us uh, you know, make better life for the blacks. And um it hurt us. But at that time I was just a teenager though.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Right. I mean, you you st you still uh you weren't thinking about national politics. Uh you were thinking about, you know, going to school, running around with friends, right? Yes. Yes. Um I mean, was it a happy period for it? Or or do you look back on it and uh do you remember what do you remember about your your time period up to graduating from Emmett Scott in 1968? Anything particular? And what I mean by that, I don't mean to put you on the spot like that. I mean you had friends. I'm assuming you were you you were happy in the environment that you were in, at least best you could be, right? I mean but do you recall being generally dissatisfied, unhappy, uh couldn't wait to get out of here, get out of tile or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

I mean No, not really, because we just a happy family. We had a very good mother, loving and caring for us, so and we had a lot of friends that we associate with in the community when we moved in Flint. And um they would visit us and we would go to their houses, we went to church together. We went a lot of time, most of the time we was at church during that time. That was our outings.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Right. There weren't places to go out to eat, and at that time, there were not places that allowed black people in some instances to go out to eat. That's correct. Right. I mean, it'd be a colored section is what they called it, if there even was one.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

If there was one, that's correct. And if we could go in there.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

At that time we weren't allowed.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

And I mean, for you know, my kids to hear that, you know, it's uh it's mind-blowing, right? For people to think back, you know, really, I can't I can't even imagine how it would be if we reversed ourselves back to 65. And, you know, um, it it shows how bad it was and how much progress we've made.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Right. We have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

I know talking to the young people at school, they asked me, how was it in my day? They they they like to know. And I tell them, and they said, Really? I said, Yeah, we couldn't do this, we couldn't do that, we couldn't go in the in a restaurant and sit and eat with anyone else. The doctor's office, we were segregated. Everywhere we went, we were segregated. We couldn't drink out of the same water fountain. I remember that. I remember riding the bus at the back of the bus, going to my grandmother's house during the summer. When school was out, that's where we stayed. Uh, when school was out, um, my mother didn't have to give her the babysitter somewhere to take care of us. So we would ride the bus to Bullard and back on the bus, yes, sir. And I told them the same thing was when we go into stores. They walk, we we was walking behind all the time watching what we were doing and everything.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Yeah, and and so, you know, part of that was uh just institutional racism, I guess you'd call it. That's what it was. I mean, because the institutions were enforcing it. Yes. Right? It wasn't just an opinion of one person versus a different person. But, you know, people are always interested um if they care about people in trying to understand what it is like to be somebody different from you. Do you you you know what I'm saying? Yes. Like if you don't have that curiosity, then you don't I don't think you really care about other people. Um and you know, overt racism, people that were ugly to you or or things happening to you, do you have experiences like that that you recall or were you just kind of isolated in in where where you went all the time?

SPEAKER_02 20:14

We we knew the places to go where we were accepted in our era. We stayed mostly in our groups, you know, in our places where we go. Wherever we went, like I said, it was our friends, our connection, and we knew the place that we didn't supposed to go.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

All right. And those were just, you know, those were kind of racial racism norms that were probably taught to you by your parents or or that, you know, it just places kept you out, you just didn't go there.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

We just didn't go. We knew we weren't allowed to go there, so we didn't go.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

And other than the places that you mentioned, um that is church was very has always been seen to be very important in an African-American, you know, family and growing up, right? I mean we hear of all of these Motown stars, everybody. They all were singing in church, right? I mean, you know, the uh uh preachers, uh Jesse Jack, all these people came up, you know, heavily involved in the church. It's a big influence, right? Now, other places that were present though would be the places at what's known in uh North Tyler as the Cut. Yes. You remember the Cut? Yes, I do. Um, you know, it's interesting history to go over there. Many people in the South have never traveled across Martin Luther King. Right? Gentry may be the farthest they've ever gone. I mean, but you know, when you there's some echoes of the old, you know, black economy, right? Mm-hmm. The Alfred Hotel. Yes, I remember that. I mean, they had to have a place where people were coming through that could get a a room. Yes. And in the cut, you know, kind of cut through there were black businesses and uh wild bunch uh clubhouses that Now. Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

And uh I And we had um Dennis Office and Barbershops and different things down on the cut, and Mr. And they call the man House Man. We sold hamburgers on the corner there from Liberty Baptist Church.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Do you remember other businesses, restaurants, or things that were there when you were a kid or until they closed? Um I've always wanted to do a show with somebody who knew something specific about the cut.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

About the cut. And there was um ice cream shop there on the corner by the barbershop and all of that, and you go there and get ice cream and snow cone. And then ms and houseman, what I was saying, he made delicious hamburgers and different kinds of sandwiches. And the club would go down, it was a place that we could go dance and socialize too.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't know if they had any clubs or per se. Oh yes, they had some clubs down there.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

But it during that time, well, I was a little young going to those clubs at that time. I just felt, you know, on age.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Yeah. But they had a lot of clubs in that area that we could go to. And like you said, different uh singers or Entertainers. Entertainers come. They came here all the time. Right. And they stayed there free to what you said, and then they stayed at St. Louis at the Ebon Inn, different places where they was welcome to stay. That they could go and stay.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

You know, and if people watch movies or try to learn history from movies, there was a movie uh several years ago called The Green Book. Um, I don't know if you've ever heard of it or not, but the premise was a black entertainer that was a classically trained pianoist. And there was a book called The Green Book that told the drivers for these guys where they could get a hotel. Because when they traveled, that became a a very difficult thing. Like if I'm traveling through East Texas, I'm like, okay, where can I stop? Which hotel will rent me a room, right? I mean, and so I think the Green Book was the uh inspiration for that uh uh for that movie. Uh and it's interesting, you know, because uh while black entertainers were sought after in the South for music events, country club events, things at the same time, you know, they they weren't allowed to eat inside there and they and they they didn't have any place to stay.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

I mean it was it was a tough um it was a tough existence when you think back in um you know, again, you I guess were insulated until you you almost got past the segregation, right? I mean you almost you know and then when you went to college, of course it was great. Yeah, I mean it was totally right. I mean it was like did it seem like you went from one world to another world from your high school class at Emmett Scott in 1968 until your uh I I guess the n the college world you went into later in the 2000s?

SPEAKER_02 24:52

No, not really because uh we was interacting all the time with the with with white people and all the races by that time in the business and everywhere. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Now I don't you had kids, I'm assuming. I don't know. I had one daughter. Okay. Um and uh I don't know this. I would guess you probably pushed education as a big thing in some way, shape, or form for her as well. Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Uh she graduated from uh with honors from uh Robbie Lee then. Okay. Yeah, she was very active on the societies and other clubs and organizations there on campus of the band. And um now she's um director payroll at Katie Independent School District out in the Houston area. And I have twin grandson that recently gradu graduated on the 9th of May from Prayer View AM University. One had already gotten his teacher's degree, and um the other one is um um engineer.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, prayer view um HBCU. Yes, it is. Okay, people who don't know what that means. Oh, okay. You tell them.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

What does it stand for? Historic college, black college and university.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Right. I mean, again, another institution born out of segregation. Exactly. Right. I mean, like um these colleges grew up and this circuit grew up because their uh black uh high school graduates weren't allowed to go to certain colleges up to a certain point. That's correct. I mean, that's where we get the uh kind of the Bull Connor um thing, you know, where they were forcing the integration of, I guess, Ole Miss or Alabama, one of those colleges, and they had the National Guard there. It was it took that much energy to combat um, I guess the institutional racism and personal racism to uh register people to go to college. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Because I started out at Java's Christian College. And then I got married and had a baby, so then I decided to go divorced.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

No, it's uh I mean look, uh yeah. I mean that happens, right? I mean it's happened to me. Um certainly you live, you learn. Yes, you do. You hope so. That's the goal. Yes. Uh you know, you hope to learn from mistakes and get it instead of making the same ones over and over. I've tried. I hadn't always been successful, but I've tried. Yes. Um, all right. So, you know, um I was born and raised here. So I mean, I I I feel like I'm a fair historian of what I've seen and known since 1967 when I was born. Um and, you know, it seemed like the city itself was somewhat segregated once I became to the age of awareness. Yes. Right? Like when I was a kid, you know, and I started to, you know, ask my mom or look around and say, you know, there was the gaslight theater, people said North Tyler, you know, uh City League baseball, it was all white versus all black teams. I mean, you know, that's was my first impressions, uh, you know, without, you know, obviously I hadn't contributed to how society was made up at that point. Right. Right. But I noticed that and I wonder, you know, it did stay that way, uh, and it's still that way. Not like it was, but I mean, it's still somewhat like that, is it not?

SPEAKER_02 28:15

It's somewhat like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

I mean, like you still have you know North Tyler, and there's a lot of, you know, different demographics that have moved into the city as well.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Exactly. Now, the North North Tyler area, I'm a little familiar I I know about it, but I didn't live in the area. That's right. I mean that's I just only went to school there in the Scott in the North Tyler area. Because I was raised in Flint.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Right. I mean, and that's a uh that's an assumption sometimes that people make. Well, you must know about North Tyler. Yes. Right? You're black, you must know about North Tyler. But would you say that you were the uh, you know, do you recall a lot of families, black families, African American living in Flint and out there in Gresham, or w was this were you guys kind of the only ones, or was this a uh a very small group?

SPEAKER_02 29:00

It was a small group, a community of people at that time, but now you know everything has changed down there. Oh yeah. All most of those people died and sold the property and other people moved in, and a lot of homes have been built down in that area now.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yeah, I mean, because Flint has really grown.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

It has really grown. When we moved down there, the streets were mud. Well, nothing but mud dirt, mud dirty streets.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

There were no paved streets? No paved streets, no. And so, um did y'all have a car? Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Oh, she bought a new car for us, yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Y'all had one car, I'm assuming. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Couldn't have drive with her anyway, so uh we just had one car, yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

I mean, how old were you when you finally got a driver's license?

SPEAKER_02 29:40

I was eighteen.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Oh, okay. 18, yeah. They didn't teach it at school, did they, uh, when you went to school? Like it wasn't an elective at high school? No. Because it was when I was there. Sure one. And then they pulled it away for some reason. Yes. And they've made my business constantly better because nobody can drive in Tyler. Can you true? Right? That's true. Uh-huh. Most Most people just don't seem to be able to either share the road, pay attention, right? I mean, it seems like you know uh so you've got no paved roads, and we're we're we're looking at you back then. How about electricity?

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Oh, most definitely, we had electricity. But while they was building our house, we lived in a house in Bullard that didn't have electricity. She used lamps, all lamps, from our grandparents down in Bullard.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

What about, I mean, is is air conditioning, is this a thing in 65? I mean, uh No, we didn't have air conditioning. Okay, I mean No.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

We had the units, the window fans, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah, and were I mean the window fans, were they electric?

SPEAKER_02 30:46

I mean, Oh, yeah, they was electric.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

I mean, some people had attic fans back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

No, we didn't have attic fans. No, she had uh winda fan. All right. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Some of those box fans, you know. Can you imagine people today um being happy and living in the circumstances that you lived in back then? Like, I mean, it'd be hard for me to say, well, hey, I'm just gonna go live, you know, under, you know. Well, see, when we moved to Flint, I think, you know, we was the only house that had an indoor bathroom. Were you happy to get out of there from the apartment complex in Tyler and Butler College? Well, see, I was so small. I was, what, six, seven years old. So you?

SPEAKER_02 31:25

So I like I loved it in Flint, yes, when she moved there. We had our own bedrooms, our own everything. The boys had their own room. My mother had her room, big living room, dining room. And uh my mother was a social worker with dollar degree. And I'm sure that's where I'm the reason why I'm at like I am, because she helped everybody else in the community. Yet she was a single lady with seven kids. And she would feed, let people spend the night there that didn't have nowhere to stay, and she did that. She took people to work that didn't have cars.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

I guess she just felt fortunate that she'd ended up with this money. Exactly. And she kind of paid it forward. Yes, she did. You think her work influenced you to be a social worker instead of a teacher instead of something else? Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

I mean, I don't know if you you know, you just I I just think about what I do and I compare myself with my mother now. And I knew I just followed in her footstep basis of what she was doing to help people. And the same way I'm doing and the community with different organizations and boards that I'm on.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

You uh You worked uh when you when you told me about GE, it sounded a lot like the line at train. Yeah. I don't know if it I mean, what did they what did you build when you worked the worked the line there at GE?

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Well, at first it was a problem, you know, getting on at GE. We had to protest and strike and walk the picket line. Okay, let's you know black wasn't couldn't work there. Okay. And then I was short, they were the height, and women's had a problem getting on at GE. But they had taken care of that before I got there, just a few years before I got there, that they started hiring short black women, just short women's periods.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

I think they were just using that to keep you out. I agree. Right, like, oh, if you're short, you know, you can't get a job here. And it was kind of a non-racial thing that might have been created to kind of, you know, carve out a bunch of people, right? Yes. All right. Well, what was the what did GE, what did they make uh what what product was being made there?

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Uh we made business um air conditioned, not home air conditioned. Okay. It's the outside to sit on the outside of uh the condenser. Yeah, the big business, the big units. I did the um I worked on assembly line where I use an air gun to put the louvers on the side of the air conditioner and put the free on and all in air conditioned. I checked the air conditions.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Where was the plant? These jobs, where was this?

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Uh on Troop Highway. Is this where train is now? Yes, it is. Okay. Just it's totally been remodeled. Right. It's totally different. It's it's changed names several times also. Right. It was uh uh G E American Standard Nance Train and uh I don't know what it is now.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

I don't either. Yeah. But um, you know, there used to be Carrier. Yeah. I don't know. That was another place that uh air conditions built air conditions, but that those manufacturing jobs were good, and as you mentioned, um you know, black people had to fight to be able to even apply to get one. Exactly. Right? I mean exactly. And this was what year that you went to work for GE the first year you went to work? 1972. All right, so yeah, this was I mean, all this stuff's happening around 1970. That is That's correct. You know, people are picketing, they're desegregating the schools, they're enforcing that, right? Things are kind of I mean, I hate to say you're coming in at a good time, but you're coming in at a better time. Yes, you know, coming up than it was ten years prior. Exactly. Exactly. Um was that a good job? I mean, good a good paying job. Yes, it was, yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

And good benefits, we had benefits and everything. And then um we went to college for different areas that we worked in the plant because we had to learn how to use computers when they changed over to different system.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Yeah, so that I mean they kind of trained you because the technology was training. Exactly. Right. I mean, there didn't used to be computers, and then later on there was a computer. Computers, yes. What you've described is it's it's kind of been, you know, you've had to go to school, make a living. You know, there's not a lot of free time to be sitting around, you know, thinking about what else can I do until you what retire? No, I had a lot to do.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

I mean 'cause during that time, I was busy working like a Mr. Ernest Decker in the community with the NAACP, API right, Field Randolph Institute. And I was busy working um helping other people.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Yeah, that's good. I wanted to find out, you know, kind of what your first involvement was with something like the NAACP uh or any other organization, you know, after you started working at GE, did you get involved after you got a paycheck and you had a little bit of security where you could, you know, take care of yourself and do other things?

SPEAKER_02 36:08

No.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

I mean you had money.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

I I Yes, but that but I still was involved in uh in the community because um like I said, when I met Mr. Ernest Deck or when I was with the union, IUE Local 782. Did he do that? That's where I got a lot of my No, he worked at uh K uh Kelly Springfield. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

And um I mean I knew Ernest Deckard. Uh right. He was um he like you said, he was involved with the unions. Yes. Um NAACP. He also was the president of the local chapter of the NAACP at one point. Yes. Right? I mean, I remember him, you know, in the To Kill a Mockingbird issue coming up. Do you remember that? Yes, I do. Yes. Uh you know, what do you think about that? That's a good uh because this is unfiltered, right? And uh and everything I ask and say is meant to be uh curious and inquisitive and in no way hurtful or harmful. And so when I asked this question, you know, people say, hey, there's a great literary work, and they say, well, you know, there's language in there and words that are hurtful, uh hurtful beyond anything that are still there. Do you remember there was that debate over whether that book should remain in the library? I remember that. Um What do you how do you feel about that? I mean, as far as you know what the controversy was, right? It was the use of the word. Yes. And it was in the book as a you know, dialogue where someone had called one of the characters that word. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

I'm thinking, I'm thinking during my school, we never did use that book.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

No, I know. I know I just remember it later.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Later, later is when it was a um it was different had different opinions about it. Right. That's when it came out then, but we never did use the book.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

And you know, I just remember it because there was a movie, and you know, there was an old movie, and all and and then it became an issue um a little bit, you know. I don't know um how that became an issue, but I just wondered if, you know, did that bother you? Did you not care? Did you see it as accurate, you know, dialogue, although it was terrible, but it was actually what reflecting what actually happened.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

Yes, it was just I figured that I looked at it that way. It's a dialogue, this is exactly what happened. This is true, this is this is the story.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Yeah, I mean, and sometimes do you think that it's good? Um, not that people say it, especially white people, but other people get to hear, at least in stories and otherwise, so that they can see how how how ugly and how harmful it was when it was happening. Yeah. I mean, because if you whitewash it all, then people later on don't have any evidence of segregation, you not being able to go to a hotel or a bathroom or a restaurant, and it kind of passes, and nobody can really judge how it was because there's no evidence left of it. Exactly. Um your activism or your involvement with the uh NAACP, what motivated you, Rosie, to be involved with with that group early on? Um, because um the racism around here in Towler, Texas.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Okay, and and people that weren't able to speak for themselves. Oh, there was racism around here. I mean Yeah, different situations going on. And uh and I work I learned from Mr. Decker though.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

You learn how to mobilize support from outside. Exactly. Right when there was something that local uh governments, schools, or other ones wouldn't move on because of their prejudice. Prejudice, yeah. I mean, we call it what it is, right? I mean uh and so that was an early, you know, kind of battle ram is the NAACP, which I don't think they do they still call it that?

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Yes, NAACP, yes. Um because there was issues where things were going on, no one would say anything, so someone had to speak up and say something.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

And you know, and I want people to think about this. If you had a job and you made a good living and you were uh more prominent or more fluent and African American, I mean, it'd be difficult for you to want to stand up, cause a big stir, and maybe lose your job, right? This is where the NAACP came in. Yes. It was helpful as an organization, a national organization, to push for change.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

That's correct. And so we was taught, but he always told me that if you you need to stand for something, if you don't if you don't, you'll fall for anything.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Well, what kind of issues do you remember standing for early on with the NAACP? Can you remember anything, any fight y'all had, any right that you wanted? Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

I know it was so many of them.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Um Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. For us that are older, I mean younger and even younger than me, they don't have any idea what the fight was about, other than just trying to get complete equality.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

What other organizations are so many cases, and I can't even think of any of them.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Well, I mean, I'm sure some of the regular m ordinary cases where somebody got fired could be racially related and you not even think it was if you didn't know what was happening. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

We had cases like that where different people was fired um uh from their job and it wasn't fair. It wasn't a reason because uh they were black. Or they didn't have no cases or anything. It wasn't nothing against them if they could prove that they had done wrong.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

So in in in ACP, is that your first kind of group to get involved with? Uh because it's kind of connected with the union there at uh GE. I mean it's all kind of working together. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Um and like IUE Local 782, that was a union that represented the people in the plant from uh uh mi being mistreated also.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

And the the union at train at least has never been known to really be a strong union, not near as strong as what the union was at Kelly. Am I right about that?

SPEAKER_02 42:05

That's correct, but we joined together and made it stronger that way. Okay. We could when we would carry uh air conditioned also. And with Talipike, all those of the unions we all worked together in with A. Philip Randolph Institute. That's APRI.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

All right, and you mentioned that a couple of times. And uh A. Philip Randolph Institute um was what kind of organization was that?

SPEAKER_02 42:30

He started that boy count uh on the railroad where the blacks was being mistreated about their health, their salary pay was less, and they worked in dangerous areas.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

You're talking about working for like a railroad, yeah. Railroad companies around here and everywhere in the country.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Everywhere in the country. That's right. Yeah, what he stood for. And that was uh the uh um prejudice and all that we dealt with with the A. Field Randolph Institution. We also do a lot of get out to vote, redishing people to vote, educating the community on voting also. That's one big thing that we ha we do do a lot here in the community. It kind of die slowed down up a little bit, but we need to start that map.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Well, and uh me just being the kind of, you know, like I said, I was a history major. I've always loved history, I've always looked for patterns why people did what they did. But I mean, you can see that the political activism, you know, was a lot more necessary and immediate back in the early 70s, right? I mean you could actually vote for things that would change things for the better. Yes. I mean, right now there's m there's not near as many, quote, black issues that are that are on a ballot anywhere, right? Like, I mean there's a lot of freedom and things have opened up and things have changed a lot, and so it's not the s it's not the same. People don't have the same motivation, I would think. Yes. For the get out to vote type stuff.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Yes, they don't have it. And uh what we like to do is start um forums like different people to run from office, come and speak, and you ask questions and listen to what they're about. That's what A. Philip Randolph is all about. And he also marched with Martin Luther King also. Uh with this um, what year was that? 80? We need to march on Washington for better jobs, for better homes. That wasn't 80, that was about 80, yeah. That was the march on Washington.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Well, you know, we we talked about uh the Kennedy assassination, and then, you know, of course, in the 60s we have uh Dr. King's assassination, Malcolm X's assassination, Robert Kennedy's assassination.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Right? I mean, there was that was the the decade of assassination. Right? I mean, that was four very influential peoples uh killed at different times, you know, for uh, you know, who knows what reasons, right? Yeah. But any event, uh, Dr. King, was that something that you and your family, I mean, because uh you would have been in high school. Yeah, I was a senior in high school when he I remember when he was assassinated. Yeah, I was a senior in high school. Um, and you know, um I'm sure that might have been more uh demoralizing than when Kennedy was killed. Yes, it was. Right? I mean, because it was someone who had elevated himself and a movement at the same time. Yes. And taking away the thing that uh the opposition was looking for, which was violence. Like, you know, if they could get you to be violent, they could just write you off as you were violent. Yes. And Dr. King was nonviolent. Nonviolent. Right. Correct. That's where he and Malcolm X disagreed. Correct. But the truth is Malcolm X went to Mecca and had a conversion and came back and then was at odds with the Nation of Islam, and when he was killed, he was no longer advocating, you know, violent quote rebellion. Do you remember that? Yes, I remember that. Um And you know, they've made so many movies. There's so many interesting things about the 60s, you know, because at the same time there's the Vietnam War and the draft going on in the middle of all this. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

We had several of my classmates and students in the was killed in the Vietnam War.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Well, that's what I was about to get to. Is um did you know anybody drafted, you know, when from people that you were growing up with that actually got drafted, had to show up and went to Vietnam? Yes, my cousin, Charles Miller. And uh did you did he survive? Yes, he did. Uh did he come home to talk about it at all?

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Yes. And I have another classmate, Terry Henson. Uh he went to Vietnam. He was um what'd you call it? Purple Hard. Purple Hard, somebody who was wounded. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh and my brother went to the he went to Germany, but during the war, but he didn't go to Vietnam.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Right, but he was uh people either had to enlist, get drafted, and then once you got drafted, they they might send you to Germany, they might send you to an American base, or they might send you to Vietnam. And they sent a lot to Vietnam. Um Do you recall, you know, Vietnam? I mean, like Tyler is not a protesting town traditionally. Right? I mean not not really. Probably never was a Vietnam protest here, I I I can imagine. If there wasn't one. If there was, it'd only be a handful of people. Right? That's right. I don't remember one. But that made it harder. Not being a protesting town on some issues like racism, advancement for black people that lived here, you know, that would that meant things would come slower and and have, haven't they? Yes. I mean, I I I've had friends that I grew up with, you know, that say things are a lot different in Dallas versus Tyler. And, you know. A lot different. I you know, and when they say that, what what do you mean? What do you think what is it about when you say Dallas versus Tyler? What's different that this city needs to get better at or better at having going forward?

SPEAKER_01 48:04

Um Dallas have more what can I say, more business?

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Are you are you saying job opportunities?

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Job opportunity, yes. Dallas have more job opp opportunity than here in Tyler.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

How about the ro relations between people? Um do you think it's better in Dallas between all peoples, or or do you think Tyler has has done pretty good or doing better to catch up?

SPEAKER_02 48:32

And they're doing pretty good and they trying to catch up, but in other areas it's moving more forward faster, you know.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

Yeah, you know, some people talk about, you know, development into North Tyler, to use the word North Tyler, right? Like Um and um it's been slower to develop over in the North than people would like. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Have you I mean Yes, I'm continuing hearing that at the meetings that uh North Talley does be d need to be developed more and better than what it is.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

There's nothing over there. Right. And um but you know I've interviewed both mayoral candidates. I've you know talked to the congressman. You know, sometimes it's private money has to want to go somewhere and have to want to go there, they gotta be able to make a profit there, right? It's a it's a complicated thing in a way. I mean the governments can incentivize with tax incentives, right? To go, but they can't force businesses to go certain places. That's true, too. I mean, that's the that's kind of the hard part about developing a city, I think, and developing it equally everywhere it goes. Um your association with the uh you know Juneteenth Association, when does this become you know something in your mind that you want to get involved with?

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Um that was back in the 70s, early 80s. I was affiliated with a lot of the custom truckers and other car uh clubs and motorcycle clubs, and um, that's how I got involved.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Were they, I mean, was the holiday celebrated in the early 80s? I mean, like Juneteenth, was this a holiday? Uh, or was this just kind of a something amongst African American people that they got together and celebrated?

SPEAKER_02 50:22

No, it was something more like the African American got together and made the big celebration because we started out at St. Louis Park and we got our own hot dogs, and we bought our own meeting and everything, and everybody just get together out there and just uh celebrate at that time in uh St. Louis Park. We did that on Sundays, those Sundays, uh Father's Day, and with different groups who come there and sing choirs.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Was that the kind of the beginning of the Juneteenth celebration in Tyler? Yes, it was. Now, um, it's come a long way. Yes, it has. Right. I mean, this is a big production every year uh that people don't know about, and the uh the Juneteenth, um, you know, Freedom Day, for young people or for non-historians, um, you know, what is you can explain to the people what is June 19th, why is it significant, and um it was 1865.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Uh it's the celebration that we are doing and it's significant, is because we are celebrating the um the uh joy of freedom. We celebrating the signific and the uh significant of the uh freeing of slaves, and we also during this time we want to honor our African American ancestors that survived the unhuman um institution of bondage. Because we have gone through a lot, and we still going through some, but not as much, but we have gone through a lot.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Yeah, I mean, um to echo that, I mean, think about it. Abraham Lincoln, with an executive order, freed the slaves January 1, 1863. Right. Yeah. The Emancipation Proclamation is the basis for the Juneteenth, and that is that there were many people in the South who were still operating under slavery when they had been freed. That's correct. And there was a uh Union um Army commander, general, somebody who went to Galveston.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Garden.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Yeah. And gave what was the Emancipation Proclamation, say, hey, everybody here and everywhere else, you're free, right? You you're not they're gonna have to bargain with you if if if you want to work for them, right? I mean, that's pretty much what happened. That's what celebrated.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

That's exactly. And at that time, see when he uh made that announcement in Galveston, uh, the people in Texas, that's two years later. They didn't even uh hundreds of thousands of people didn't even know they had been freed. And from what my understanding, there was one person that worked at on the dock went around yelling and hollering and spreading the word that the slaves was was free.

SPEAKER_00 53:07

Yeah, because you gotta think about it. Other than maybe uh, I don't know if the telegraph was around or writing a letter, there was no way to communicate with mass amounts of people into vast lands that something had changed. Yes. No TV, no radio. I mean, so they had to do it by mouth. Right. I mean, and and then it had to have authority behind it, right? I mean, somebody could run around and say, hey, everybody's free, right? But unless there was a union j general or uh or a military person, you know, administering some proclamation. Yes. Which meant the union would come enforce it uh if it wasn't complied with, right? I mean that's That's right.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

That's when they started reading their proclamation to the people as they spread the news. That's what they sub that's what they was doing.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

And that that it was they the slaves had been set free. You know, and like you said, it was a it's I mean, you don't have to read very much or watch anything, a terribly inhumane thing that happened. Um that's still hard to believe nowadays when you know people, right? I mean, like when I know you and you know me and uh we know a lot. I mean, it's just you know, you can't imagine that that was a system that everybody went along with. Um, but golly, I mean, money makes people do horrible things, right? Yes, it does. The system was rooted in economics. Yes. Right? I mean, that was I mean, free labor. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

That's what they was doing, keeping them in Texas. They they knew, I actually believe that it was known, but uh they wanted to keep them working that oh two years because they had cotton and stuff to pick or whatever they doing on the uh plantation.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

Yeah, because I mean, you know, Greenville, Texas, in that area, the black earth and the cotton, I mean, that was a big crop, right? That's correct. And uh, you know, I hate to say this, but my grandmother was from Greenville. Um, and um there was a sign that said the blackest earth and the whitest people when you drove into Greenville. Uh and I think it was a reference not only to the black earth and the cotton, but also to the racism in kind of the hey, you know, the whitest people means, you know, no blacks in here, right? Yes. Um, but you know, there's so many stories like that that I mean, I think it all builds up to why this Juneteenth Association parade and celebration is important. It's so important. Right? I mean, if it just gets forgotten, like I said earlier, it seems like people will forget what was bad and why it happened and how it was. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

They forget where they came from, what they all went through during those times.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

Uh I mean it doesn't have to be a continual thing where, hey, you know, I hate the country and I don't even think that's what black people think. Uh, but certainly if anybody had a reason to, African Americans would have a reason to have a beef with the country, right? I mean, I mean, like I mean, that's to me it's uh obvious. And do you ever think there was a a time in which, you know, uh amends were made with the African American community, you know, like from slavery to freed, from separate but equal, to civil rights, to forced segregation. I mean, did it ever seem like for you there was a time when um the country tried to uh heal the wounds of the past?

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Maybe I never did think of it that way.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Well, you know, and I I have thought of it myself that way, thinking, you know, I can't see a place where the government, the country, kind of reached out and said, Hey, you know, it was more like we it was kind of forced progress, right? Yes, it was forced. I mean, it was kind of for it wasn't like this big embrace where everybody was like, Yes, you know, we were mistaken, or this was terribly wrong. We should have done something else, and we're sorry. It was never about it was always just this forced progress. Yes. And I wonder if if you think that has led to, you know, racial tensions and things that we've seen in the past few years where people don't trust each other as much or think that, you know, reasons are are or you know, there's motivations for things.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

I'm thinking about that.

SPEAKER_00 57:43

I'm not sure what I'm what I'm saying is, and I might get to ask it better, is do you think that the lack of a really a healing process directly with African Americans has led to uh, you know, a less seamless integration of us all in this country?

SPEAKER_02 58:02

I'm looking at where we like I said before, we've gone through a lot and we still gone through a lot. And and uh those things that we have gone through with um we are like I said, we're resilient people.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Very much so.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

Very so, and we have gone through a lot. More than anyone else you can think of. We rise, that's what I'm trying to do, but still we rise. So we're gonna come back. You understand what I'm saying? We know we're coming back, and we use the knowledge and the education that we have learned from our teachers to keep us going, pulling us up, and we don't go back. You understand with the education that we under yeah, I understand.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

I mean, you're saying uh look, education is the foundation to how African Americans got a f a fairer chance. Yes. Right? I mean, just to even even try to start from not the same place as others, but to at least get access to that education. Education, correct. From there, you know, hard work and um, you know, sometimes hard work wouldn't be uh everything. I mean, right? There there are racial decisions in the past that have been made in the workplace that have prevented advancement, right? Exactly. Exactly. You know, and the struggle um and resiliency, as you mentioned, um since I've witnessed it, uh, you know, it seems to be the joy that comes out at the Juneteenth parade and festivities.

SPEAKER_02 59:33

Yes, it does.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

Right? It's like uh it's like something you know, you know, with other African Americans that not everybody who hadn't experienced that or didn't have relatives or descendants doesn't have that same viewpoint, right, or appreciation.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

That's right. They don't know but see, uh like like you're saying, like I keep saying, education because a lot of people need to be educated about where we came from and what we all we have gone through and what we are going through, and they need to know why we are doing what we are doing because there are our ancestors, they have um um done have progress and they have made achievement and they have done things invented uh invented items for you know in this uh what I what can I say? They have contributed they'll contribute to the society. Yes. Yeah, to the to our nation.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

Right. I mean, even you know, um just making the show factual, um, you know, there were, I mean, segregated units in, you know, World War II, right? I mean, uh, but that reality thankfully is over. Now there's just these remnants of prejudice to try and overcome, right? Exactly. And some of it's obviously a lot more invisible and harder to see and harder to say that's what it what happened, right? That's right. Because prejudice not um I mean it goes below. No, you're not born prejudice, you're taught prejudice. Right. That's right. Because you don't know any different.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

You don't know no different. And so the the students they don't see color when you're born students working and talking and playing together.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:17

You know having a hard time deciding what is motivated by racial animus or racism, to me, uh, is more and more seen in the police confrontations, right? I mean, you'll see people hating the police, but then you'll see, you know, African American police officers involved in the scrape, right? And sometimes you'll see simply just white, like we did with Rodney King. Yes. Remember that? Mm-hmm. Um and I guess the abuses of the past are hard to ignore. And so, you know, um, you know, do you see a time when we get over this where, you know, Dr. King said uh, you know, everybody should be judged by the uh content of their character, not the color of their skin.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

We hadn't gotten there, clearly. No, we have not. I mean, we're trying. We are trying, and and different people are trying all over the place to help uh push that along, but it's clear we have not gotten there, right? Yes, that's correct. Now, the Juneteenth uh situation, and we've got uh we've got a slide up here. Uh that was a few years ago. Uh, and for people who've never seen this parade, it is a uh I mean it is a sight, right? I mean, there's so many entrants into the parade, it lasts for a while, and it runs Martin Luther King, you know, all the way down to Wilders Part. Yeah. To Wildart Part, ends up at the park, and then there's a celebration down there. Brookshures usually gives away food. Yes. They have for many years. Um, but right there, this is this is kind of what brought us to this show. Uh the Juneteenth Association does a lot of things for the people in the spirit of um, you know, resiliency and overcoming, right? Yes, yes. Trying to help trying to help. One of those things is scholarships, and these are the scholarship recipients for that given year, right? Yes. I remember all those students. You know, they apply to the association. You guys have people donate and whatever, and you have money, and then you award them, right? And that's kind of their handing them off for high school going to college. Exactly. And then this kind of is their encouragement that, you know, hey, they're they're doing a good thing, they're special, we're they're recognized. Yes. And you're a I mean, you you've been with this organization since, you know, ground zero? Uh almost, yes, about 45 years, I think. And, you know, uh, can you think of anybody else in the organization that's been there longer than you? Um William Hart.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

He's a member of one of the custom uh the custom trunkers. He's been there the longest myself, I'm the second.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:04

Because y'all just kind of organized something that started at St. Louis Park where people brought their own food, and then over time, it how did it evolve? Because you've been there since the you know 70s to now.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

Yes. The vi there and Brooks has also assisted us with some of the food at the part too. But most of it, we started out and we did it ourselves. The different clubs and organizations will buy the food and we serve it at the part that's Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

Is this uh is this video? Yeah, okay. Oh no. Well, we can roll the video and you and I can kind of talk. Look, this is clearly this is a neighborhood event, right? I mean it runs right through what the heart of what you would call Northown. Nortown, correct. And people come out who don't know this from all over the place with nothing but a folding chair and they sit down with their family. Exactly. And uh in the past people would throw candy, but they're kind of discouraged that, aren't they? I don't know why, but maybe it gets dirty. They say with the bag because maybe the kids may run out in the street. Yeah, I know. I mean, I was always worried about that because you know, our float that we pulled in there, um, I was always worried about those kids kept running out in between the float and the uh but look, this looks like it's in the cut parking lot over there. You know, okay. Lafayette, he he he gives away a bunch of food, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

That's why I understand that he does. I'd be at the park, I don't know what's going on. Right. I've got but I've heard he does. He does a lot of food.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

I think that's evidence of it right there.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:31

Is that it? Okay, I've never seen.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

Yeah, I mean, he basically it's free food. And then here's here's the gather, here's over at the park, right? This is where you are. Yes. Because look, look, I think I see you on stage. Here you come. Look at you in the yellow. Oh, I am up there. Oh, yeah, I'm up there on the stage. Tell us there I am. I mean, the blaze is out there, but what are you saying? There's the scholarship, there's Derek Choice. Yes. Right, councilman? Yes, as yes, as He's the um judge now. Yeah, he's JP judge. But you know, people eat, people congregate, people visit, it's very friendly. Um, you know, um I've been there the last several years, you know, and I've been at the park at different times and and and never felt anything other than uh that people were you know happy for me to be there, right? I mean I knew it wasn't my holiday, right? Yes. And uh I remember the first time I went, I had some, you know, reservation about whether people would wonder, you know, what was I doing there. Right? I mean but um again, um everybody was friendly and everybody just seemed to be most focused on you know appreciation for the day and for people in the past.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:46

Exactly. And we welcome all races, we don't care who come.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

Because I mean you do see other people there. I'm not I'm not trying to say I'm the only guy in the past. No, no, no. But yeah, you know, because nowadays there's a lot of mixed race families, there's a lot of interaction, right? Yes. And and so uh, you know, it's not just a, you know, sometimes it can be, you know, uh a white family can have some appreciation for what that day means.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

That's correct. Um and we have our city of elected city officials, the school board, and a lot of people's coming in now being participating in the parade.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:23

Right. I mean, uh because you know, the uh city council, there's right. I mean, there's a representative that represents parts of or all of, you know, interest, all interests of the city now. Exactly. Exactly. Now that didn't always used to be the case. No. People don't realize that the city council, I don't think, didn't used to be to a specific area, you know, like where the certain people in this area could elect that person, right? I mean, I think that changed over time.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

And all the district areas come in and participate.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

Well, and it you know, I I hate to say it's funny, but I mean, you know, Petra Hawkins is my councilperson. Okay. You know, I mean, I know her. Yeah. And uh, but I mean, that's how much Tyler has changed over time, right? I mean, if I had a problem, I'm going to Petra Hawkins. Hey, you know, I need some help, you know. Exactly. This show council person. Um You know, Shirley, Shirley ran for mayor. Yes. Um, and uh, you know, that's a tough road to hoe um with Sal Tyler and the numbers, right? Yes, it is. I mean, especially with the you know, the the city uh and the county and the the kind of got a business program, uh commercial, you know, they're trying to develop downtown, if you will, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:37

Yes, I've noticed. I was I looked at that Sunday, I was downtown.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

And you need a lot of cooperation politically in order to pull stuff off like that that involved the city and the county. That is the square, right? But overall, do you think that it'll be good for North Tyler the more development there is at the square and north of the square? Yes, it would. I mean, eventually. It doesn't seem like it could hurt to me. No. But um, you know, other organizations before we uh kind of circle back to the uh Juneteenth Association, are there any other groups that you're involved with or have been, you know, just trying to foster, you know, black advancement uh, you know, and and help in the community? Yes, I am member of the Triple A.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:26

That's the Arione Agency that work with that's working with senior citizens. With housing and working with um uh food food bank. I thought that was if your car broke down. Triple A? No. Ariel Agen A. Yeah, that's what that is. No, not that. And uh we work with the Go Bus for senior citizen. All this we work with seniors referring their home to those who can't afford it. What is the GO Bus? I've seen that. The GO bus is the one that takes senior citizen to their um doctor's appointments, or maybe to Walmart or to the pharmacy to get their medication. Is that a city thing or or is it a it's a Smith County thing. Okay. I'm over the Smith County area. It's a Smith County area area. There's thirteen 14 counties, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:12

Now, what's your position with the uh Smith County stuff? That'd be for that bus travels outside the city limits or or or what?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:21

It Yes, it'll go outside the city limit, correct. It goes in Smith County, Smith County area. Then Cherokee will pick up pick up their area down there in Cherokee.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:31

See, we in Greg County has his area. But how do people uh there's not a bus route? Is this something you schedule for it to come through? You schedule, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:40

Uh through your doctor or social worker, someone will um tell you um inform you about the uh Go bus.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

Do you sit on a board or something? Uh how are you in charge of Smith County? I'm on a board there. Uh for Smith County?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:54

For Smith County, yes. And uh we teach you about mental health and other things that for seniors for senior citizens. What just living or going into nursing homes and all of that. We're in charge of all of that. We look over that too.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:08

What just to educate people on what you can do, like what's available, those type of things?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

Yes, that's exactly what we do. And we have um workshops and uh and uh that people can attend that we announce at different churches and we explain the things that we do too, that we have uh available for seniors.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:28

Seniors and people with disabilities. Now, just like the uh slide says, this year's Juneteenth parade is coming January or excuse me, June 20th. Yes, it is. 9 a.m. is usually the start time, right? Yes, that's correct. Uh and if you try to drive down there, uh it's tough sledding uh after about 8 30 with the police. Correct. Right? Except for you always uh, you know, letting me go in going behind the barricade. Yes. You need to be there around eight between eight and eight thirty. Um but the parade itself is usually At nine, so it's nine. Is it usually just the first Saturday after June the nineteenth? Is that how it normally Yes, it's usually that third weekend, whatever day it's on that third weekend, is the Saturday before Father's Day. Okay. Yeah. So that's why it always seems to kind of fall on Far But never it doesn't have to be on the 19th. No, it doesn't. No, it does not. And uh unfortunately the holiday is on the weekend, so nobody gets a day off from work. Exactly. Right? I mean that wasn't planned well.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:33

No, this time. Yeah. Well, June 19th is the 19th.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:38

That's on a Friday.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:40

Right, but the parade is going to be on the tour next time. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. But they want people to be able to go to the parade, so that's why it they put it on Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:48

Exactly. And we have people come from all over the United States to participate in our parade. But Galveston is the largest parade in Texas, and I think we're the second.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:57

Well, you know, that makes sense, doesn't it? I mean the origin of the Emancipation Proclamation itself should be the largest remembrance of the parade. With a parade, right? Yes. But I did notice how I'd often talk to people who were from Shreveport, from Dallas. They were down here and they were acting like what we had here was a bigger deal than what they had. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

They come to your towers every year from Oklahoma, Louisiana, and like you said, from Dallas, Fort Worth, Erin, and where is that? Tennessee. We have people come from all around the state. I guess it's all over different state.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

It's a Texas thing. I mean, the uh uh the the the parade, the Juneteenth holiday, it's really it's it's really kind of a Texas thing. Yeah, it is. Uh really it is. And I guess because we were the furthest away. Galveston, Texas, long way away from Washington, D.C. Correct. Back in 1865. Yes. Um But yeah, that's a uh you know, that's interesting that Tyler is carrying on a legacy here that may not always exist at other places in Texas in the future.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:06

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:08

And it sounds like that, you know, you know, you you've always been involved with these causes that, you know, um try to preserve and promote, you know, black heritage, black history. Is that I mean, is that intentional on your part? Yes. Um the area d to celebrate with the black Yeah, just to kind of remind people you know w what some people have been through, which is a lot worse than anything someone at the present moment would have ever experienced. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:36

Because I know the students probably talking to them in school about it, they just can't believe that happened. They say here in Thailand, Texas, no ma'am, this is a big thing. No way, no way that could have been there. No, they cannot believe it. They can't believe it because they have never lived it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:52

You know, and that bleeds into all other issues, which makes us, you know, you know, poverty breeds sometimes crime, sometimes drugs. Not always true, but I mean, you know, you you see these things, and then law enforcement uh can target what they believe to be areas of crime, and that can lead to higher incidents of incarceration. I mean, you know, and the black community could continue to suffer uh because they are, you know, incarcerated at higher rates. That's correct. Right? That's correct. Um and we you know, we can't just ignore the facts because we want to get along. We have to talk about them, I think, to see whether the policies make sense, like, you know, uh private institutions, prison institutions that are incentivized to fill them up. I mean, is that the best policy? I I don't know if it is, right? That's right. I mean, have you had family members or anybody that's uh you know been to prison or that you have any experience with that the criminal justice system here locally throughout your life?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:57

No. I'm thinking, ooh.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:01

I mean, some people have had bad experiences is what I'm getting at. Some people have.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:04

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think. No, not right off.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:12

I mean, law enforcement is way more um you know, responsive to African American concerns than say, you know, 30 years ago. Yeah. When you say I mean or even forty years ago. Because, you know, like the police department in Tyler seems to get a you know, uh and and North Tyler and the entire city re seems to get along pretty well compared to other places. I mean, do you feel that way?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:39

They seem to get along pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:41

I mean, yeah. Is there anything that you can think of that, you know, uh something you wish was changed or something that was done differently?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:49

I never have just been involved with the police.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:52

Well, you just hadn't had a problem. Problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

Um and I'm I'm not saying that you should have one. I'm thinking one, but I'm thinking um I mean you've had a wonderful life. Every time I look up, you're over at Flint living a good life out there. Uh-huh. You're always happy. I mean, you're the wrong guy to talk to. I mean, if you're trying to find out, you know, the history of the struggle, right? Yeah. I mean, but the struggle was and is real. It is real. Right. Yes, it is real. It's just one of those things that's kind of hard to put your finger on exactly because there's less institutional racism that you can see. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:37

Um I guess just because in those days it was just a way alive, way of living. It was accepted. It was accepted, correct. So we didn't that's what we accepted then.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:50

But I mean, you know, there's a lot of excitement around the city in general about the development of the city. And I wonder if that, you know, uh, you know, that that feeling uh for people outside developing the city is there. Does do people have a positive outlook about, you know, Tyler and living in Tyler? People you're around, people you talk to.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:15

Um do have negatives. Yeah, of course they do. Right. I mean negative opinion about what goes on here in Tyler, Texas. Even with some of the officers, you know, police officers. Do you think their treatment?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:28

Older people, or do you think do you think that that's people that that have had those experiences in the past that were especially that had no experience in the past, so that's the reason why they know the experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:39

They they know the system, they know what's going on within the system.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:42

It's hard to forget and forgive, you know, some things, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:46

I mean That's correct. Now I know I probably I know I've had relatives of cousins, someone, but I don't know their cases when they were with the, you know, with law enforcement.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:56

I mean, if you don't keep the Juneteenth Association parade and message up there, I'm not sure the young people are gonna carry it forward unless they get involved, are they?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:05

That's correct. You're correct. They don't they don't know or they don't care. They just think it's a day of fun. They don't realize yet that it's a celebration of what our ancestors have gone through and what they have done to make this day from them uh being um in bondage, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:28

Do you think that's true of all Americans and holidays that um the further we get from them, you know, our memory fades. I mean, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:38

You talk about more exactly what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:40

You're talking about veterans that sacrifice their life in World War II. And, you know, people the further they get where they don't really have a connection with sacrifice. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:52

Yeah, my dad was in the military also. I forgot that. He was also in the military.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:57

I just think people's disconnection with sacrifice leads to these holidays kind of, you know, losing their steam over time. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:06

If we don't continue this on, it would die out if no younger people don't come aboard and learn and and um read and find out what it's all about, what has happened in the past with our ancestors, why we're doing what we are doing today, why we're celebrating.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:23

Do you ever think there's a time where uh we grow close enough together, everybody, where um nobody really cares to reflect on the Juneteenth uh proclamation? I mean, do you ever think it gets to that, or do you always think there'll be a place for thinking and remembering?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:42

Like I said, the only way I think if we have to continue to educate the young people that's coming behind us.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:51

Yeah, I mean, do you think that's important that uh at least the African American community always remember that this happened, we had this holiday here because of that. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:02

I'm sure if someone would keep it going, someone would rec continue to teach the younger generation why we're doing that. Yeah, and what happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:12

But this latest generation or two, they're really uh they uh there is no there doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of prejudice or racism amongst amongst that group.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:22

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:24

And so and so consequently, they're not thinking about the Juneteenth history like you are, right? Right. That's correct. And so it gets to my question, do you think that we could have a few more generations where people were so integrated and they had no prejudice that, you know, people just didn't even think about holidays that brought up things that were a past gone era that were not not pretty. I hadn't even thought about that. I mean, but you know, Dr. King kind of that was kind of his message, wasn't it? It was like where everybody'd be judged by the content of their care, you know. That's kind of the the first suggestion as to what we see this most recent generation playing out where there's there seems to be no prejudice in that generation.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:09

Exactly. You're correct. So what you're looking at is that it's a possibility that Juneteenth would soon just start fading away gradually. That's what I want.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:18

I wonder if you think that, you know, I think it's fair to suggest that the most racism may be in the older populations of today. Yes. I mean, you might agree or not agree with that. Uh and the least amount is in the youngest generation. Oh, that's true. And so in the oldest generation of African Americans would be the biggest and the most memory of the injustices and the prejudice, right? That's correct. And so, um, unless you keep this organization, I'm wondering four generations from now, Juneteenth is something that's a memory that nobody ever recalls because it's not a part of life anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:58

I believe what you're saying. You know? I agree. Uh and it has to be someone to instill in this younger generation. But if that's not if it doesn't happen, it will fade away.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:10

Do you think there's ever a time when we're so um together that it there there's no need for or e no no reason to look back? Like there's been so many generations of people getting along, living together, no prejudice, you know, do you ever think it gets to that?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:32

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:33

I think it m I don't know what year that would be in, but I mean it may eventually get to that the way the connecting the the way they are connecting the students, the the the uh um people are doing now, they are they don't care anything. See, like they don't pay that uh colors no attention anymore.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:54

Right. I mean it doesn't it it seems like you know color is not a factor in the young generation, right? For any decision. No, it's not. It doesn't matter whether who you're dating or any it is not a uh uh it's not a barrier. It's not right. Um you know the uh the barriers uh are economic oftentimes, right? Right. When you look outside and look around the U.S., you see pockets of people that live together that are poor, right? Yes. Um and you know I don't know I don't know what that looks like, Rosie, going forward. I don't know if that gets worse, you know, as time goes on as far as economics and what we're going to see in the future, but um That is something to think about. It's I mean most people don't think about the future as much as maybe it I kind of just think about like what could be, what is going to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:56

See the way I'm looking at this generation now.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:01

I believe actually, I believe it would just fade away.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:05

I mean, you know, people used to talk about things like race rights, right? I mean, like, hey, there's gonna be a race riot in the future. Yes. But I mean, with the way I I see that as less likely every day that passes. Do you I see less likely that that would be a basis for me to go to war with somebody or hate them would be their race because it seems to um now that doesn't mean everything's been fair and everything's been righted, but uh it seems like the relations between people is going in the right direction. It is. Um it does. Yes, it does. And then so government or national policy, if they want things to change from education or some other standpoint, that's gonna have to be from the government. The people are doing all they can do. Yes. Right? I mean Yes, they we are. Um, you know, if you um you've seen a lot of change in Tyler. I mean, if you were if you were the mayor, if you were in charge, if you had anything, well, you know, is there anything you think you would do that you feel like would be good and positive for African Americans in Smith County uh that needs to be done? Is there anything on your mind?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:21

I hadn't even thought about that in the thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:24

Um Well Shirley had it on her mind, right? Shirley was running. I know she yeah. I wonder what she thought, because I haven't talked to her about if she was elected mayor, what would Sh Shirley ha have done? What agenda would she have pursued in order to try to impact her city and and you know, people that she was a part of uh in the best way.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:47

I know one area she talked about a lot with the North Tyler area. Right, I've heard that destruction in doing that over in North Tyler area. And I think she wanted Did she talk business? I mean, I I I think the best she could. Yeah, the best she could. But like you said, that a person has the want to bring their business in that area.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:07

But um Unless and and for them to want to come in, sometimes tax abatements, that is, having businesses agree to locate somewhere and not having to pay a certain amount of taxes for a while is one way the city has done that in other parts of the city. Yeah. Um The young people seem to be the key to this whole thing, Rosie. Um, you know, if we've got another 40 years of the Juneteenth Association in the pres parade, it's gonna have to take some younger volunteers, I would think. It it will, definitely, it will. Is anybody involved in it right now that's say under 30 or under 40?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:45

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:46

Okay. I mean it's all the old timers.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:48

Oh, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:49

Is it because y'all won't turn loose and y'all are control freaks, or what is it?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:54

No, that's not it. They not it seemed like they're not interested in it, the younger people to come on board to do to work. I think the youngest person may be on there maybe 30, 35, 30, 35, you know, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:13

Well, uh, I know you're looking forward to another year because you stay involved, and uh um and I I I thought you were getting off the committee, but you didn't. That's half of my discussion. Uh well, you know, anybody who's listened to this, I've tried to uh you know, pull out, you know, uh a black and African American perspective in addition to the the the parade and the celebration itself. And I think you've been a good person to talk to. Lifelong, lifelong person in Tyler, right? Thank you. Um and you've assisted people through your work and organizations from you know the NAACP to the current Juneteenth Association. So, Rosie, um I look forward to uh seeing you um on the 20th, and I appreciate you being on the show and and and letting everybody have this perspective. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:11

You're welcome. The statement that you just made reminds me of 2005. I was honored as one of the women's in tower, a woman who inspired when you said that that did you think about what I've been honored for already?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:24

Well, I'm not surprised given what we've talked about today.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:26

Yes. And I would just like to say that the people that we invite everyone out to the celebration, and please leave it with the celebration of Juneteenth with the three Ps. We celebrate with pride, with a purpose, and with power.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:45

Well, thank you, Rosie. That's a good way to end.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:47

Okay, thank you. You're welcome.