A Conversation With My Dad: From Old Hollywood to the White House — and Home Again

Ok.. this one is really special and this week’s episode feels a bit different.

For the first time ever, I sat down with my very private father, Morgan Mason — at home — and just… talked.

About growing up in a version of Hollywood that doesn’t exist anymore. When movie stars were neighbors. When Marilyn Monroe just popped by. When meeting The Beatles wasn’t a headline — it was a story from down the street.

We talk about him acting at nine with Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, later becoming Elizabeth’s agent, and somehow weaving through decades of culture, politics, and history — from Elvis encounters to working in the Reagan White House to traveling with five presidents on Air Force Two.

But what makes this episode special isn’t the names.

It’s getting to sit across from my dad and hear how he’s moved through all of it — fame, politics, loss, family — and most importantly,how he showed up for me when it mattered most.

It’s Old Hollywood.
It’s 80s politics.
But really it’s father and son ‘at the table.’

And it’s one of my favorite conversations I’ve ever recorded.

Welcome to my family. 💙

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to Duke's Download, my new weekly podcast. I'm Duke Bateson here, and each week I'll bring you candid, thought-provoking conversations with incredible guests from the worlds of politics and pop culture. Together we'll explore the stories, ideas, and moments that shape our lives and drive change. I'm so glad you're here. Now let's get started. Hey everybody, welcome to Duke's Download. And I am so excited to have my dad, Alexander Morgan Mason, here with us today. It's a pleasure. This is actually his first on-camera interview, I think you've ever done, other than Jack Parr show in 1964.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Well, so it's been the precursor of the tonight show.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Mom, we can hear you with your clothes over there. So yeah, sorry. Mom, do you want to say hi real quick? All right. She they just did the Elton John Oscar party Philip Garrett. She's uh scene stealer. Scene Stealer. Anyway, um, yeah, this is your first as an adult, your first interview ever. You're a very private person. You're very you're very private. You're very uh averse to any kind of publicity.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

There are only there's only room for two superstars in my family here. With three. That's you.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

And four or five.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

No, right now you, it's you and mommy. Oh well. I don't want to steal attention from either of you. So well, thank you. You dragged me into this.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

So well, I figured, I mean, the only other thing you've done with me was which was very sweet and symbolic, I thought, was you did the interview for P Flag, which I thought was a nice gesture. I was really happy to do that. Thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure. There are so many questions that we could ask or I could ask today, but I decided to try to narrow it down as much as I could. So we're there's so many stories you've told me over the years and anecdotes and things about our family and your life experiences, but I decided to try to keep it to 12 questions, so or topics, I should say. Um but I thought we'd start at the very beginning. Go for it. Um what are your earliest memories of growing up in LA in the 1950s? Because obviously you've you lived in you were born in LA, you grew up in an entertainment family. My grandfather, your dad was an actor, James Mason. Your mom was an actress, Pamela Mason, your sister, Portland, who I was very close to. But uh perhaps you could s begin the journey the story with uh an idea of what it was like growing up in LA back then.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yeah, well, I think you know, without gilding the lily, it was kind of uh the last golden age of Hollywood, you know, which sounds very nostalgic and everybody kind of says that.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

But the 50s and 60s, 70s even in Hollywood was a very different time than I think Hollywood is now, where the world in general, obviously, pre-social media, pre-evody having a camera at the table wherever you were, uh there was a lot more innocence, freedom, glamour in a sort of understated way, you know, not very ostentatious glamour, but yeah, I think that people have a it's a very the way you've painted the picture in the past, LA was a very people have an idea of like LA and Beverly Hills or Hollywood being super you know over the top and ostentatious, but it was actually very, very like a it was a kind of a small town America vibe, totally.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

I mean there was a Mayfair riding store, which was a horse riding store, was on Rodeo Drive. Nobody had gates in front of their houses, nobody had alarm systems, nobody had guards. We left our front door open 24-7, basically. And uh You know, it was glamorous, but it was also very it was an intimate little group, really.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

You know, we all kind of you that were in town that you remember seeing like around town back then.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Well, I mean, I have you know, I have photographs of things that I don't personally remember right now, but I mean, uh, you know, everybody you can think of from Humphrey Bogart to uh Marilyn Monroe to Lucille Ball. Lucille Ball lived a block away. Judy Garlandie lived a block away. Yeah, I mean, uh Rosemary Clooney and Jose Ferrer, all these people lived within a few blocks of our house, and their kids, we all went to the same schools. We went to you know public schools. People didn't go to private schools then, no matter how you know famous their families were. So you went to Beverly Hills High. I went to Beverly High. Um you know, so it was like classic small town, albeit a little bit more luxurious than most small towns, and people were more famous. But you know, we all had our birthday parties together. And you know, it was uh beautiful little upbringing, I have to say.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

You were friends with like Dean Martin's kids, Lucille Ball's kids, all of them, uh who Frank Sinatra's kids. Yeah. Um, one of my favorite photos, which is on my wall in my apartment, which is pretty iconic. And I love, of course, I have to admit, I love showing it to people whenever they come over because they always the first people walk in and they see this picture on my wall, they're like, Who is that? And they go, that's but they go, wait, that's Marilyn Monroe. And I go, Yeah, actually, it's a photo of my dad as a one-year-old, or even less than one, maybe. No, I think maybe 18 months. 18 months with my his dad, the actor James, and Marilyn Monroe. And I guess they were making a movie, they were making two different movies, but on the same studio lot. And she came to the studio lot or to the set of my grandfather's movie. She was wearing a terry cloth robe. Fishnets dock. And yeah, it's great because her hair is done, she's got the beauty mark, she's got the the fishnets under her robe, and she's talking to you and pointing at uh something on the set.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Yeah, it's uh unbelievable. Actually, you know, I didn't discover that photograph until much later in life, and obviously, unfortunately, I don't have a specific recollection of that day being so tiny. But uh she did have an outsize uh uh effect on my that too, I suppose. But outsize effect on my life that I did like fishnets after that, as your mother can attend to. Yeah, she wore some fishnets in every time. She did. But uh it was obviously very weird to all of a sudden like, oh, I met Marilyn Monroe. And they didn't even tell you people alive that have met Marilyn Monroe. Did your mom and dad ever told you that you met her? Not that I recall. I was I can't even remember when the photo resurfaced. But it was just like, oh, gee, that's pretty wild. I mean, uh, it's like unfortunate, you know, the positive and negatives of having cameras now everywhere. I would have had pictures with everybody from the Beatles to Elvis to, you know, obviously all the presidents and people I've met. So unfortunately, I don't have a lot. But so that one particular, the Maryland one, is a special one. I mean, I know that I was with on Humphrey Bogart's knee, as far as I've been told, and things like that, that would be great to have. I have you on Roger Moore's knee.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

God bless Roger Moore, he was amazing. And my favorite bomb, which I know is a controversial point of view, but but uh Marilyn Monroe. I mean, having that picture is like pretty well you're right, pretty much nobody alive has that picture in a channel. Well, no, you were like 18 months old. So yeah, but that's a special one, I have to say. Um do you mentioned meeting the Beatles. Do you remember where and like what the context was of that meeting? It was 1964, it was on their first trip to the to the States, which is kind of an I mean, not kind of, it is like an iconic moment in pop culture.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

I think there are pictures out there, but uh it you know, my dad who had left home right by that time. Right around that time, 64, yeah. Exactly. And the Beatles were just breaking in England, and they were like the thing, and it was the very beginning. You know, I think I I want to hold your hand, you know. It's hard to relate to how gigantic they were at the time.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

I mean, I guess people make comparisons to Taylor Swift, but even bigger than that.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

I mean, you know, we're talking about a cultural revolution overnight, like where all American music was wiped out by the British invasion. Anyway, I remember my dad bringing home the first 45. He came from England and came back to our house and brought that first 45. And I go, you know, that changed my life right there. I became obsessed with music and whatever. And uh then my mother they came to Los Angeles to play, I guess, Dodger Stadium or whatever, I don't remember. But um my mother bought, I think I was the nine, I guess. My mother bought uh tickets to a fundraiser that they were going to appear at at the I think it was Ray Stark's house, but it was a big wig in Hollywood at the time. Big mansion in Beverly Hills or Bel Air. And the garden was going to be this luncheon where people got to meet the Beatles. And it was whatever the price was, it was very expensive at the time for this charity. And my mother, knowing that my sister and I were both obsessed with the Beatles, bought tickets for us. Anyway, so we went to this thing, and when you arrived in this beautiful garden, there were the Beatles sitting there. I mean, it's like hard to I can't even you can't even relate to what it was like seeing them and sitting there in person in their little haircuts and was insane. And of course, when we were in a queue to get to meet them, uh just to shake their hand, and of course, the closer and closer we got, the more terrified both of us, my sister and I, got. Yeah, and at the end getting closer, I finally said, Okay, no, I can't do it, I can't do it. My mother, using some rather salty language, said, I effing well paid a fortune for you to shake their hand, and you're going to effing shake their hand. And so we did, of course. And of course, then we were literally like the cliche walking around going, I'll never wash this hand again. But I have washed the hand again. But that was epic, yeah. And then, of course, you know, that we were a huge influence on our lives, and then I became a musician for uh quite a few years and had a band and you know did my best, not a career-wise, but uh for fun.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

You have a uh what's you I'm sure you'll know the right word, a uh a incidental? And you'll you're e my dad's a uh ver you know grammatical uh pro or uh expert. So what is the word I'm looking for? A uh incidental connection to various gay icons in your life? Having been married, well being married to one. Uh your dad obviously starred with Judy Garland, who's a gay icon, did her eulogy days before the Stonewall riots began in New York in 1969, which is pretty big, pretty weird. Eliza's request. At Liza's request, another gay icon. And then you're married to a gay icon, of course. I don't know if I mentioned that. You did. Another gay icon, Elizabeth Taylor. Exactly. You uh and the thing is speaking of which.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Speaking of which, memento, memento for you.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

I don't know if the camera will pick this up, but try and show it. So my dad, when he was a kid, he started a movie called The Sandpiper. You were a child actor. I was nine. You were nine. You were what is it? Yeah. You starred with Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Burton as their son in a movie called As her son. Her son, right. Danny Reynolds. My boyfriend and I, Army, who was the host of last week's episode, and I we watched it recently together. But this is my dad, Saint Christopher, that he got when he was nine years old. I don't know if you guys will be able to see it. I think you will. But it says it's engraved on the back. It says, from Elizabeth and Richard, Paris, 1964. But uh, you shot the movie, so this is part of funny, funny.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

And that was directed by Liza's father.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Oh, what's right? Right. Another well, sort of gay himself. Anyway, adjacent. Yeah, gay adjacent. But uh yeah. Uh so they had just come off of doing Cleopatra, right? Which is obviously the biggest, not only was it the biggest movie ever, five biggest budget movie ever, but also they were like way bigger even than Brad and Angelina, already like the biggest couples you can think of.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Invented the super startup.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Power couple thing. Yeah. Um, but you start as their son, and you shot the movie, even though it was based in Carmel in California, you shot all the interior shots on a studio lot and or studio in Paris. Exactly. Because they wanted it, they were like, if we're gonna do this movie, we want to like spend the few.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Well, they also had tax you know issues that because it was like three months in California in Pebble Beach, uh not Pebble Beach, but uh Big Sur. Yeah. And then uh they couldn't spend more time without becoming I think tax residents here. So then they they wanted to move it.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

And they're they were already living in Switzerland back then?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

They were they had a house in Stadt and but they had house in But they intentionally were living outside America. But yeah, so they they only they were kind of always on the move. But yeah, so we we spent three months in in Paris also shooting the interiors, and that was awesome. And she was they were all incredible, you know. James Coburn was in the movie too, and Charles Burns.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Even Marie Saint, who's still right?

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Saint. So we shared my father and I that he did North by Northwest with her, and I did uh Sandpiper with her.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

So that was you have a lot of memories of working with her on the movie, or I know you were 10. Well, I see it.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

You know, it's weird because I can see those scenes, obviously, now, and I that gives me a sort of flashback to oh yeah, I remember those sitting on the bed with her.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

You remember that? I do.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

I you know, I think I do because of seeing 60 years ago or something. I can't, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Well, no, I'm just saying it's pretty cool that you have those memories. I don't know if you want to tell the story, you don't have to, it's kind of but I mean you obviously loved loved Elizabeth uh a lot. There's a great photo, unfortunately, it's fading, or poster. It's a photo of you and her in our in your place in Mexico that she signed to you where she says to Morgan Love Mommy, Elizabeth Taylor.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Uh and uh but the story about when you were the Life magazine photographer gave you the camera.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

And you saw you you caught some photos of her drinking and her.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

And they were very trusting of me. Yeah. And uh I was obsessed with photography. And at the time, a Nikon with a motor drive was the ultimate dream camera. Again, it sounds weird because it's like now you have that on your phone. But uh I would have done almost anything to get my hands on that camera. And there were tons, that was really the beginning of the paparazzi thing, because they were the couple that really inspired paparazzi, you know. So there were hundreds of photographers everywhere they went, including on the set on exteriors in in uh Big Sur. And there was a chain link fence with a to block out all the photographers, and because you know, they Elizabeth and Richard were just wandering around the set or whatever. And one of the photographers seduced me by telling me I could use uh the camera if I would take pictures back, you know, I could take whatever I wanted. So, I mean, it never occurred to me. At that time, again, it was so new, that kind of paparazzi thing. It was a so anyway. The guy gave me the camera. I went shooting pictures all over the backstage in Elizabeth's dressing room, but they were pouring vodka into her champagne bottle or whatever, you know, things that definitely shouldn't have been photographed. And uh then I returned it, of course, to the photographer, and then the publicist on the film got wind of what was going on, and I was rebuked her doing pills or drinking and it was specifically the champagne bottle. Yeah. But anyway, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

They believe she's putting vodka or champagne.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Someone was putting in vodka. I mean, I won't say, you know, I was young, maybe I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

But that's the way you're remembering. That's the way I recall.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

I know that I was definitely rebuked for taking backstage photographs. Uh I learned my lesson.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

It's smart though. I've read the paparazzi who did that. That's really smart. Yeah, like, hey kid, here's here's so here's a new kind of gadgets to new competitions with. Yeah. Um, and then you obviously what, almost 30 years later, became Elizabeth's agent. You were an agent uh at William Morris for a couple of years. And then you became her agent, and maybe I got her back to work. I got her to do the Flintstones.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, that was turned down everything else, but she said she'd do the Flintstones.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

You tried to get her to do a deal with Diane, Danielle Steele, right? That's right. Did they end up doing anything together? No, you think so, but they became friends. You tried to get them to do a like a collab of miniseries. Yeah, I just you know, I just wanted Elizabeth to be to work, but she and there was the iconic line of her saying to you, and you said, What do you want to do? I said, What do you really want to do? And she said, Spend money.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

I said, Oh, okay. I I don't think I can help you there. I think you're pretty good at that yourself.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Um, but yeah, but that I mean the footstones are in terms of her career, she kind of like that's people remember that a cameo. It was a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

It was the new generation to discover.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Reintroduce her, yeah. Reintroduce her. Um, and then when you there's I I can't remember exactly what it said, but when you when we left to move to France in 1994, you showed me that great load that she wrote to you when she had so you her big signature and everything. But she wrote you an oath.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah, she wrote me a note that said something like, I still have it, of course. Uh it said, Well, that's a fine how do you do? You become my agent, then you decide to F off to the south of France to become a producer. But I love you and I'll miss you. Something like that. She was she was extremely uh uh loyal, of course, you famous for being loyal and was a very loving, uh very loving person, you know, and fabulous to be around. Of course, Richard Burton came to the States and lived in our guest house at Pamela Drive, our family house. And uh so my father was kind of responsible for Richard coming to the States. He was then with his wife Sybil, and they lived in the guest house, and he was the one to twirl it all back around because I was around him reading poetry all the time as a little kid with my dad. And the reason well, one of the main reasons I got the role in the sandpiper was that I already knew one of the things requirements was this kid in the movie at nine had to be able to recite the Canterbury Tales or the prologue to the Canterbury Tales by Chaucer. And of course, I actually knew it by heart because Richard Burton had taught taught it to me when I was I don't know, seven or eight.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

And you audition for Vincentelli, right? Personally, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

You remember that? Oh yeah. That was scary. Very he was intimidating, I have to say for a nine-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah. He uh what uh you guys, I I have it for whatever reason hanging in my closet, but you guys went to her her wedding to Larry Furtenski, right? And you had the Disneyland, right? No, that was her birthday.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

She took over Disneyland.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Right, right, right. That's what okay, yeah. I have that. It says her name on it and like the Mickey Mail. I have it in my closet. Of course, I had to keep that one pop culture history. One of the coolest things that I that I that I think one of the coolest things that I one of the things I think is the coolest that you guys have, of course, because it's relating to me, uh, is you guys have that picture frame that she gave you guys when I was born. Yeah, that's right. And it has a picture of me, but that or as a baby, but it has like my name. Actually, no, it's it's all my like the date, the time I was born, the my weight, everything. All my all these little stats relating to my birth. And then at the very bottom it says to James Duke Mason, love Elizabeth Taylor.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Elizabeth Taylor, Futinski.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

That's even like even Putsinski on the cake.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

The very 90s. That was her first uh or no, her final husband, who was a construction worker she met at Betty Ford, I think. Right. Which is so which is so great. Yeah, it's really crazy. But uh, I mean, by the way, I wish I there's so many things I want to talk about, so I'm trying to keep up the pace. We can we as we mean We're both vote. I've learned I've I learned from the best in terms of you know well and your mom too. I learned about being being uh talkative, I'll say. But um the next icon you came into contact with several times was Elvis, because I'll let you as to how that occurred or why that was.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

It's funny because of course the apropos of the Beatles. I mean, I really wasn't into music before the Beatles, really, and Elvis, of course, was the the big thing before that. But my mother loved Elvis, and I realized, of course, what a superstar he was, but it was also that sort of comeback time. He had already his like time had passed, but anyway.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Um well he was doing all those movies, like he did all those movies, and he cut the '68 special was kind of supposed to be to make him like a credible recording artist again.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Exactly. And then going back to Vegas and ruling again of Vegas. But uh so yeah, I had two encounters with him. Well, three, because you well, you saw him twice. I saw him twice live. Well, my mother had a thing about making sure that even if I wasn't interested in those people at the moment, that I should see them because one day I'll be happy. And that included Elvis, but it also included Marlena Dietrich and Josephine Baker and you know, all kinds of people that she thought you saw Marlena Dietrich. Yeah, live on stage, like you know, when she was, I don't know, whatever age, 70s or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

And Josephine Baker, who was like, you know, massive for a lot of people out there probably don't know who she was, but she's look her up because she was a nice one.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

She's a silent film star.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

She was alive. She may have done films, but she was a performer. Anyway, look it up. She was an interesting person, and I'm very grateful that I got to see her. But my mother said, We had two little episodes with Elvis in person. One was that my godfather, your great-gatfather, Fred DeCordova, who was a director and producer and iconic figure, um, happened to direct not only Ronald Reagan's film Bedtime for Bonzo, but he also directed uh one of Elvis's movies. I have a I feel like it was Kissin' Cousins or something like that. During that period when he was just churning out kind of B movies. I mean, now I think they're great, but anyway, we went to the set because of Fred DeCordova being like a family friend. And my mother uh and I went to the set, and Fred DeCordova introduced us to Elvis, and my mother was kind of starstruck even. I didn't really register that it was that big of a deal. But what was funny about it was that at the time my mother had a TV show and a radio show. She was kind of like the original Oprah in a way. You know, she'd she would do like five hours of live TV every day, and six hours. Her mom was the first.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

I think like maybe I'm praying, actually. I don't think I'm making this up. I think she was like the first female big to have a owner and talk show on radio in LA.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Yeah, ABC. And it was the first like talk radio station. But um anyway, so but I you know, she was my mom, so I didn't really relate to that as a big deal either. But uh, we went on the set, Freddie DeCordova introduced us to Elvis. My mother was, you know, kind of impressed. And uh she said it's great to meet you, Elvis. And she he said, Well, ma'am, uh I well, I shouldn't do an impression of it, but anyway, basically, in Elvis' voice, he said, ma'am, it's a great pleasure to meet you. Uh I just wanted to tell you that I was watching your show, which already hit me at the moment. Like I was her show was on at like 9 a.m. or like, and he said, I was watching your show a few months ago, and uh you quoted the Bible, and whatever chapter of the Bible it was, I don't recall, uh, you misquoted it. And I just wanted to like make sure you understood what it was. And my mother didn't even remember quoting the Bible. I don't think she ever knew anything about the Bible, but he obviously misquoted it. And he gave her the correct notes. Elvis's not and when we left, I was like, I even then I registered Elvis Presley as watching my mother's talk show at nine in the morning. Now, of course, I realized he probably was he's probably been up all night. Watch and watch whatever was on. But then we went, my mother said, I want you to see him. And when he came back to Vegas and did the big international, you know, uh hotel comeback. She took me to see him two nights, and we went backstage. It was pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

But so wait, so you were the you saw him three times then because you saw him.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Met him twice, uh once backstage.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Did you see him at the six for at were you at the taping of the '68 comeback to that? No, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

But I saw him live like during that era that far away on stage. That was when he had the big collars. I mean, it was um, you know, did all the karate booms on stage.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

It was awesome, I have to say. He he's he's he's still the bad, I mean, doesn't get better than Elvis. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Um as your mother would say, he was a babe.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

She had a shrine to Elvis, yeah. She disgraced land and her.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Her house or home was called Disgraceland.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Disgraceland in Hollywood in the 70s. Some naughty girls there. Um I hate I hate speeding through all this because there's so much to cover. But um, you know, you always you always talk about how, you know, you've you've always been very and like you're not it's you worked in politics, but you're not like a you've never been a party political party person. Definitely not. You and the the times where people have tried to waverly. Ronald Reagan.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

And uh And he wasn't really a politician in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yeah. I mean you but you got involved in politics and the you worked for Reagan's campaign. You've always considered yourself independent politically. So like you don't like Trump, you're not and you want to clear the record on that. You're not a uh you're not a Republican, you're not a Trump person. But you worked for Reagan, and I mean this so this topic we could spend uh five hours on, but as a truncated version, you worked on the campaign. I mean, I in a way I wish we could just do a whole episode on this because I mean the fact that you sent a letter to Reagan, he called you after you like you didn't know him, you didn't know if your parents didn't know him, it was entirely your your doing. And you went to work for the campaign back when he was like not considered like a for-runner.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

He was like seventh out of ten candidates.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah, and and he ended up winning, obviously, the presidency. You went to work in the White House, you were the youngest special assistant to the president in American history. Um, and you but but you also before that worked for a pre a brief time as deputy chief of protocol. And there's obviously so many stories about working in the White House, co-being in the Oval Office, all that that you could tell. But the one story, because I thought it just sort of it's funny and it's interesting given the fact that multiple presidents were involved, you were part of the official delegation for Anwar Sadat's funeral um in 1981. And I thought maybe you could share a couple quick parts of that experience because you were there on the plane on Air Force One with Nixon, Carter, and Ford. And Kissinger. And Henry Kissinger. And Al Haig. Al Hague was Secretary of State. But you but Reagan couldn't be there because he was the sitting president of the.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Well, it was weird because first of all, I had met Anne War Sadat maybe three weeks or a month earlier at the White House. And for a lot of people out there and your youthful audience, you will know a lot maybe about Anwar Sadat, but he was pivotal, pivotal person in history and political history and geopolitics, etc. And literally, having met many people, including Elvis and Sinatra and all these people by that time, I would put him and Mohammed Ali and other famously charismatics. Yeah, and people who are notoriously charismatic, right? Um, or you know, you expect to be impressed. I didn't expect to be impressed by Anwar Sadat, particularly, but I was completely blown away.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

So you met him.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

I met him at the White House.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Wow, just before he was killer, yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

And I remember so.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

He's basically responsible. And he and uh whoever was Prime Minister of Israel at that time, I mean, to this day, for for all of Jimmy Carter's potential faults, he that was a lasting achievement that he had negotiated the the peace between Israel and Egypt. And it's still it's still fifth almost 50 years later is intact, which is pretty incredible. It was incredible.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

And so Edwar Sada obviously was president of Egypt and was part of the epic personality and you know probably what got him killed. Um but yeah, so soon after I had met him and was still sort of in the you know, the the uh under his aura, like saying to people, wow, I just met somebody that blew my mind. And uh so this terrible thing happened, and I was called into the Deputy Chief of Staff's office at the White House, who was a good friend of mine, and he said Mike Deaver. Yeah, Mike Deaver, who was one of the closest, if not the closest person to Ronald Reagan in his career. Um, and luckily my mentor called me into his office and said something big's happened and uh I want you to get involved, I want you to help, and we need to put together a team really quickly. So, endless story short, we ended up uh putting together a delegation that included all those people you just mentioned. It was the first time, or maybe the only time in history where you had five living presidents together at the White House, and I have that picture somewhere, which is pretty incredible. Yeah. And uh yeah, so we had the delegation. We got it was Air Force II because the president wasn't on it. Right. Whatever they had a difference call sign, but it was Sam 26,000. I think it was.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

What's crazy is that you and I have been to the Reagan Library, and in the library is the plane, it is the actual as the plane, and we walked through it, and you were pointing to like where you sat and where Nixon and Carter and Ford sat.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

But I wanted you to really quick tell the story about what if you're okay with it, because they were they're all gone now, so I think it's okay. But like with Nixon, and then also the one the story with Nixon and or with Ford and Carter, because of those two small moments with those were good ones.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Um I had the you know, it was very odd to be sitting next to Richard Nixon because of course I'd been through Watergate with my dad.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

And you were friends with John Dean, who was who basically took down Nixon.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Well, I hadn't become friends with John Dean. I don't think you had. You're right. But of course, there had not nothing could have you know been bigger than Watergate.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

He was like, I mean, Nick doesn't get more culturally iconic than Richard Nixon.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

And weird because you've seen him so much and he was so famous. And he was so over caricature.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

We're right. He was so I can't even imagine what it would be like to see the way he looked with his hair and his nose and the voice. Yeah, it was just and the the whole yeah, the beyond larger than life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

So uh so I had the the luck to sit next to him on a 14-hour flight to Cairo. And uh of course he ordered a martini, and so I joined him. And uh you know, sitting on Air Force One or Air Force Two, but anyway, the same plane actually that brought John Kennedy's body home, JMK's body home, and where I think actually Lynn Lyndon Johnson was sitting. So pretty iconic plane.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

And uh so yeah, I sat next to him, had a few martinis, things loosened up. He was extremely nice and open with me. I mean, I think because I worked for Reagan, he trusted me, if I can say that. After three martinis, he trusted me more. And I had uh the courage to actually say to him the thing that I think almost everybody would have wanted to say is why didn't you burn the tapes? Because let's face it, without the tapes, yes, it would have been probably would have just would have survived. And he looked me dead in the eye, took a look at a sip of his martini, and said, I fucked up. And then that was like, okay, there's nothing left to say there. I mean, I was like, uh I couldn't follow that.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Mike Mike Drop. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Yeah, Mike Drop. Wow. Yeah, so that was epic and life-changing moment for me. And uh and then Jimmy Carter, who of course I love now, and yeah, at the time he was our arch enemy at the campaign.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

So you also, by the way, just to for historical record, you were not a I won't ask you to uh explain why, but you were not the biggest Bush fan either, necessarily. No. So Well, I was a you're a Reagan, but again, I was a Reagan Republican, not a you're just a Reagan person.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

I chose the one person at that moment in time. Right. I happened to be interested in politics at that moment in time.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

And I happened to volunteer to work for him, and he happened to accept.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

And he happened to become president of the president.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

But he happened to become president.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

But um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

So you went up to the city. Oh, yeah. So Carter.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

So Carter was on the plane with Rosalind and was very standoffish, of course. And now we know in hindsight, now that it wasn't obvious at the time, he despised Reagan and all of the rest of us on the team. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

So uh I mean this was literally a few months after Reagan had defeated him.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

So you know and then he was still.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Well, I mean, I would be too if I'd lost stung by that.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Yeah, I mean, and it was a humiliating defeat, of course. Whatever. So uh at you know he but he was very standoffish, and then you know, this course typical thing of all.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

You actually have a great photo. Another, I mean, the man of also I'm trying to speak there because there's so much going on. But you have even in your place in Mexico, a lot of the Reagan and White House uh memorabilia stuff in like a certain part of the living of the shrine. The shrine. Reagan shrine. Uh but you have um a great photo of you, group photo with you, Reagan, and Carter. I don't think Nixon's in the picture. You have the photo that there was uh Nixon, it was Ford and Carter. Ford and Carter, yeah, two other people. But Carter wouldn't do one-on-one photos, he only agreed to do the group photos. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

And so you which we thought was, you know, the point is it's kind of silly, uh, you know, it's a at the time, it probably still is the same the thing. But everybody, we didn't have selfies then, but you know, we had an official photographer, and of course, if you're there with a bunch of presidents of the United States, you everybody wants their picture taken. There's only 20 of us on maybe on the plane. So of course we all wanted a picture taken with uh two or three presidents, it's a big deal. So uh everybody else agreed to the solo picture, but Jimmy Carter wouldn't. He wanted a group picture, and it's okay, you know, it's fine. But so uh I said to Gerald Ford, who was as approachable and easy to talk to as you know you can imagine. I said to him, I can't believe uh President Carter won't take uh individual pictures with us. We have 14 hours on this flight. I mean, it's no big deal. And he said, uh, well, it just goes to show you you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit, which shocked me, as you can imagine, coming in from a former president, speaking about another former president, yeah, but he's a he was kind of a gym coach kind of guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

So it didn't come up, didn't he seem like he put on errors really?

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Yeah, not that I could tell. He was pretty straightforward.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Was he drinking too when you were going?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

I think he probably had a couple. Uh the Carters didn't, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Yeah, well, didn't you tell me that the Carters were sitting in the corner like reading the Bible?

SPEAKER_01 38:11

She had the Bible out, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

I mean, you know, in hindsight, I think a lot of people feel the same way that he Well they walked the talk, yeah. Yeah, they were later on. Uh and I didn't I didn't tell him he worked for Reagan, but I told him that you uh you were on the delegation to Sadat's funeral, and and he I met him and and and Rosalind. Yeah, that's great. And you know, and yeah, I think in hindsight a lot of people feel I mean he's his his his reputation and legacy has been sort of validated in a lot of ways. Absolutely. Um again, there's so much about the White House I could ask you, but in the interest of time, after the White House, you were you were there for about two years, and you came back to LA, you worked in public relations, you worked for or Don or with Don King, who was, for those of you who don't know, was a big deal in the 80s, a boxing promoter, but also did like concerts or tour, you know, music artist tours. And you actually worked with him on the Jackson Victory Tour in 1984 with the Jackson 5, or the Michael Jackson and his brothers. And there's one thing I wanted to mention in particular about that. First of all, Michael taught you the moonwalk. That's right. Which which was pretty incredible. A lot of us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Everybody who was on the crew basically got the opportunity if they wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

And what's crazy is, you know, there's a famous photograph, which I think is like considered kind of one of the defining photographs of the 80s. And it was a photo, and I've seen it my whole life, you know, in online, on in book, whatever, you know, on TV, the famous photograph of Michael with the big aviators and the gold um, like what do they call epaulettes on his in the sequin blue suit at the White House with Ronald and Nancy Reagan. And I remember I forgot like a year or two ago, I brought it up to you, and you said, Oh, well, I was there. And I said, What do you mean you were there? And you said, I set up the whole thing because you were working on the Jackson tour. It was summer in 1984. Reagan was running for re-election.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

And you played Washington, D.C.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

And you played Washington. So you are actually responsible, arguably or inadvertently, for pretty much one of the most iconic moments of the 80s.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Well, I was blessed in that one of my non-official titles was that I was a sort of liaison to the entertainment industry, the White House.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

So Mom, we can hear you zipping it up.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Yeah. Excuse us, Lou.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Yeah. Uh so you can edit that. Yeah, no, no, I think it adds to the to the authenticity of the ambience. The ambiance.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

So uh yeah, so I had to I was able to, and they were happy for me to bring people from the entertainment business to the White House for various. I did it with Elton, I brought Elton John, who was, you know, I got I got to choose who I wanted to be to meet.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

And uh so among them was Elton and a lot of other actors and singers and so on. But uh yeah, Michael, of course, since we were on tour for a year almost, I think. Um and of course it was the hottest ticket. I mean, I don't think I'm sure Taylor Swift maybe sold more, but you couldn't be a hotter ticket in the world than Sam Jackson. Yeah, together.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

It still is considered kind of an iconic tour.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

I mean, that whole era of the Michael's career. Every show was the most unbelievable show you've ever seen in your life. I don't remember, can't remember exactly how many dates, but it was a a full loop year. And you traveled with the tour? Traveled with went to every show.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

With Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, all those guys.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Wow, that's pretty amazing. Don King, which was epic. Going from the White House to Don King and the Jazz.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

And you were there at the White House with Michael Jackson and the Reagans that day for that? That's pretty amazing. I mean, that's up there, like that's considered one of the most iconic moments in American pop culture. Really. Yeah. Um, I could also do a whole segment, which I won't because we we only have a little time left, but about Sexualize a videotape, which was your butt you were also part of basically the birth of independent film in America because most movies at the time that were in the late 80s were studio films, at least the ones that like had wide theatrical release and all that. You actually you kind of discovered Steven Soderbergh, who's a big director, or you is a big director now, one of the biggest, was a young filmmaker back then.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

You just you saw whatever his movie movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

And you watched one of his small or one of his short films, asked him if he had a feature like film. He wrote it on a legal notepad, handed it to you. You then helped make Sunset Sunset Sext-Wise and videotape. It went to Sundance, it went to Camp.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

That's close to the story. Yeah, it was a little notepad, but he handed me a script that was like paper thin. Yeah, and it had this title. He'd shown me this little video, which was amazing, rapid eye movement.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

And he was 22 years old, and he'd written this script and come in from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And uh I read the script, it was a unique script, and I gave it to your mother that night, and I said, This script is very unusual, and she hates reading scripts. And I said, uh, please just read like the first 10 or 15 pages. She read the whole thing and said, That's unbelievable. You have to make that movie. And the next day, I was in a position at that moment to put up some money for it.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

And I know there were a lot of like uh different things that happened in the interim between when you when you found it and then when it finally got or got made. But you went to you went to Cannes, went to Sundance.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

It won everything and became a huge commercial success. But as you say, what it did, and this is not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

And you met Robert Redford at Sundance because Redford, who passed away obviously last year. They did a memorial for him last night at the Oscars. Yeah. But he um he you met him there. But it was Sundance helped.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Sundance was a sleepy little uh festival nobody really knew about. Only for very low budget independent films. No agents ever went. It was like unique uh place, and we were just looking to get some exposure for that movie. But long story shorter, uh it became a you know a change.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

And for better or for worse, created Harvey Weinstein because that's you and also go you should say for the record, you were not a fan of Harvey Weinstein at all. No, but in fact, you would say you said that for years, long before the f the allegations were made.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Well, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Yeah, no, I mean you you were I remember you as a kid, you telling me what a what a horrible guy he was.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

He was not a pleasant person, but he did a fantastic job of marketing. No, yeah. And sexalize and videotape was the movie that put Merrimax on the map and gave him the sort of uh gravitas and finances to go launch.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

He was a good, I think anyone would say he was a good producer. I mean, he just wasn't he was just not a good guy, you know, uh, which unfortunately is the case with a lot of these people in this town. That's Hollywood. That's Hollywood, yeah. Or was hopefully that's changing now. Sort of, maybe. Um to wrap it up, I have two final, well, actually, three sort of final questions. Um, we'll try to make it as succinct as possible. But obviously, you met mom, who was in the room with us in 1988. Hi, mom. In 1984, you've been together 42 years this year. It's just about, yeah. Yeah. And uh, you know, you and mom have always taught me to be, which is one of the things I, you know, is we're we might be an unconventional family in terms of you know the circumstances, but I think one of the things I'm really grateful for that you and mom instilled in me is, you know, and you're I I was well basically my question is where do you think this came from? That you both, despite being from very different backgrounds, that you you happen to be, you've instilled in me the importance of being authentic, of being loving, of wearing your heart on your sleeve. Like our family is very open about, you know, we're very affectionate, we're very tight-knit, and you know, and and uh I was curious, like, you know, where do you think that came from? Because I think a lot of, you know, look, a lot of people can't choose the circumstances they're born into. But in a way, I think it's more of a testament to the how how amazing and uh uh almost uh unlikely it is that you guys are so uh emotionally open and all that, because you guys both you you even though you're out of a loving family, you're the child a child of divorce, and mom is mom sort of is too, or his too.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

So where do you think, why do you think uh was that a conscious thing, or is it did it just happen that you and mom happened to be both kind of unusually uh well I haven't been through analysis to figure that out, but I would say the fact that we both had, I mean, I consider myself very blessed in my childhood that I have.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Your mom and your dad, even though they were though they were together, they were very loving and very affectionate.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Very loving and affectionate to us. And uh, you know, no matter where how whatever the distance was at the time with my dad, for example, he wrote I wish we could talk a lot more about your dad.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Maybe for maybe for his birthday or something, we'll do a little something. That would be crazy. But maybe May 15th. That's actually a good idea. We'll do a little thing on him.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

But yeah, so they were both uh my parents were unbelievably affectionate and loving. It was a crazy household, as you know. My mother was liked to imbibe, and so did my sister, and my father not so much, but um there were there was a lot of partying going on in our household. And uh, but you know, we were given a lot of freedom as well. You know, my mother was infamous in Hollywood for basically letting my sister and letting me do whatever we wanted. You know, we went to stayed up at all the parties till four in the morning when we were.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

There's some great pictures of my Aunt Portland, uh, who I still think about a lot. She was she passed away when she was pretty young, but uh but pictures of her like dancing at the house with Tony.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

She was known as the most precocious child in the world. I mean, I can't even imagine now I mean what it would have been like if they were then social media, but yeah, sure her life was kind of ruined already anyway by being so famous, so young. But uh if it had been I mean, she was beyond the image of someone like a Lindsay Lohan or my sister wasn't a drug drug user, she would have been the most notorious child in the world.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Kind of a Paris Hilton, but not like in a yeah, not in a sort of she wasn't a party girl, but she was invited to be a very good thing. Socially gregarious and outgoing and yeah. But so you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

I I I think maybe because your mother and I both You're both very authentic on both sides of the family.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

What I always what structs what strikes me is whether it's mom, whether it's you, whether it's your parents, both of your parents, you know, none of you, like even despite being in the industry and growing up in Hollywood and all that, I really am grateful for the fact that you guys, there's like not an air between the either of you. Neither of you gave neither of you have ever sought publicity. You in fact, we both, mom, even last night was at the Elson John thing, and it was like, I don't want to walk the red carpet. You know, you both are very averse to any kind of inauthenticity or any kind of putting on airs or superficiality. You guys are both just real, authentic, loving, you know, uh people. And I think that's a that's a rarity, you know, and I'm grateful to have been a beneficiary of that.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Well, I have I'm glad to hear that because it's uh not always the case with adult children.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

No, yeah. I mean, look, we're cray know I'm the first to say I say this in a good good context, but you know, the whole family, everyone's kind of crazy in a way. I mean, you're not we wouldn't say crazy. You're not you're not crazy, you're it's a you know, out of the ordinary out of the ordinary, yeah. Uh but you know, I I I just it's a lot of you know, it's it's unusual for people to be not only loving and like openly affectionate, a lot of families, but also the whole authenticity thing, which I think is like neither you nor mom nor grandpa nor in fact every one of you, and or you know, mom and dad, grandpa, grandma, mom. One of the funny things that was even has been remarked upon in their careers is that they never played the game. No, and I think you you never played the game. You in fact, you guys left LA because you were like, screw this, we don't want to play the game anymore. And and I think that's an admirable, unusual quality. But it's even more unusual now than it was back in the 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Yeah, I think it sticks out, stands out a lot now when people are not pursuing fame and obsessed with fortune. But uh yeah, my mother and father were both total mavericks and um against the original thinkers.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

But again, like you said, but not like a not like a contrary and like intending to be controversial.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Yeah, and they just you know they live their lives uniquely. Yeah, and uh, you know, there were there are drawbacks to that, as my father always said, you know, I mean, obviously he could have been a much bigger mainstream movie star, but that was boring to him. So he wanted to to do uh you know more adventurous projects and work with more obscure directors, and you know, my mother certainly was renowned as being a unique person, both in her talents and her charm and so on. But yeah, I think the fact that both of us, your mother and uh and I, had difficult in terms of the parental relationships, I think it made us that much more attentive to making sure that you I I've always felt encouraged to be, and this actually is a perfect segue into our next question.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

I've always felt completely encouraged to be who I really am and to be open and honest and real and authentic and true to my myself. And you know, I think it's important as a final question to acknowledge to address this topic, but obviously, you know, I came out when I was 14. And you did, yeah, towards which is the first I've heard of it. I'll tell you what's really crazy is that that was 20 years ago this year. That's depressing. I know. Well, I was for I was young, I was 14. But you know, uh I thought uh maybe I'll just bring up two examples of of how you were there for me and how much it meant to me and continues to mean to me. But like, for instance, uh you there was a time we go to the details of it, but but point being, there were a bunch of moments both with other people we interacted with, you know, where you you know, he where you stood up, you know, for me. And there was I guess I will, there was a guy, we were at his golf club in uh in France where we lived, and there was a guy who made some some neck bigoted comments, and this is you know 20 years ago now, so you have to keep in mind that people were a little more flagrantly uh homophobic back then, but you actually stuck up for me. And I think a lot of people might assume it didn't directly direct them at me, but nonetheless, it was said something was said you know the thing is it made me your situation.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

You know, as you know, I grew up in a household that I would say was easily 50% gay in terms of you know, whether it was friends or other members of the family or you know, obviously everybody in the entertainment business, a huge chunk of it that even then, and not necessarily out, but yeah, you know, we're certainly known to us as being gay.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

And uh but of course, so I took it for granted that that was an obvious part of you know life. It was never strange to me. But then when when you came out, it was obviously my my concern was like you say 20 years ago, it was a very good thing. How that's gonna impact your life. So uh and you had political ambitions at that time. I don't think there were there was one openly gay politician at that point.

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Well, there were, but they were like very it was like a novelty, like Barney Frank or something. That was it. That was it. He was and Harvey Milk, but that was like basically it. I mean, in terms of like people that were widely known to be gay and like turned widely successful on on that or visible on that level.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

Exactly. And I so I was you know, my first concern, not you know, I wanted you to be happy in whatever you chose in life in any in any area, but I was like, oh my god, what's gonna happen to your political career? Um not that I perceived.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

You weren't no, you never you never even encouraged me to go to go, but you were just you just wanted the best for me, and you were obsessed.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

I was obsessed with pop even back then. Well you were talking about being president then. So listen, like I'm still not even eligible. So here I got two years. Exactly. So get to work. Anyway, uh the uh I did what what apropos of that guy uh who was named nicknamed Lord Byron at the club. What did we call him the other Lord Biggett? That was what we uh he was a pompous Englishman and uh old think, you know, old time thinker. Yeah. Where of course I would have been offended anyway had he said what he said, which was an offensive crude remark.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Yeah, but not even worth repeating.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

But by at that moment, all of a sudden, the fact you know, the fact that it was personal, that to me, wait a minute, now now I actually get it that this is a member of my family that you're indirectly insulting, and that made me more much more overnight an ally.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

And uh you're about as big of an ally as it gets and became an activist. You did. My dad, you know, even though we uh this is gonna sound really puncy and pretentious, but given the fact, you know, we my dad grew up going to the Beverly Hills Hotel, and you know, and the minute that I started that boycott, you know, and in a way, because I felt like having gone there a lot as a kid and having the family history, I felt a moral obligation. I became like public enemy number one over there. Number two. Yeah, I think we're I'm still blocked on their social media. But uh you were, you know, you were right there with me, you've always been right there with me. Yeah, that was an extra sacrifice. No, it was. I mean, you know, without a doubt. It doesn't sound like it, but it was. Oh, yeah. No, but it's not even about it. It's not about the luxury, it's about the fact that your mom and dad went there.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

When they first, when my parents first moved to Los Angeles, they in 1948. Yeah. My mother, you know, coming from the war, she wanted to be near a big hotel just in case like it was a bomb or you know, there was no food or water. So the Beverly Hills Hotel at that time was, you know, in Beverly Hills, Beverly Hills was kind of, you know, like I said earlier, kind of a small town. So uh that hotel became our base of operations from the time we were children. So to see it come under Sharia law was a very uh I know it's not directly under Sharia law, but that uh hit home.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Well, I I uh, you know, for those of you who haven't seen it, uh even though it was sort of not directly about this topic, but one of the things that we I remember they'll never forget the moment we watched Guess Who's Coming to Dinner Together. And I think we both cried watching it because I still would probably cry watching it again. But it was a moment, I think, because I think I was either I had just come out or something like that in the movie. You know, I think you were you were sort of like you were sort of like the Spencer Tracy character. Well we talked about remaking it with a gay key. We did. We actually we got uh the late Craig Zayden was on board to to produce it, and Bruce Phalange, I think, was gonna talk to him about maybe being writing it. But it was it was in the works. It's a really good idea. Yeah, and uh even uh who was that director? Larry Marks, not director, producer. Yeah, it was like it was in the we were like working on it for a while, but I could have gotten it. Yeah, but you know, you but doing a gay ver gay couple instead of a birace.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

If you haven't seen that movie, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? Yeah, one of the greatest movies, I think. I agree, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

Makes me cry every time I watch it.

SPEAKER_01 59:15

Brilliant, brilliant acting, just special. And it was great to watch it with you because it it uh it really yeah, we both cried.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Well, I love you, Dad.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

I love you below.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Thank you for joining me. Thank you. And little one. But for thank you, Dad. And um thank you for I know we're just about an hour, so I'll wrap it up. We could but we I think we should do something for grandpa's birthday, even a short, like a mini episode.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Let us know if you want to see another episode.

SPEAKER_00 59:44

Please like, subscribe, share, as I always hype, comment, whatever else. Complain. I'm kidding. Uh but uh yeah, we should maybe we'll do something for in May. But thank you, Dad, for doing this. I love you, and uh and uh talks in. Thank you all for joining us today and uh talk soon. Thank you for joining me today on Duke's Download. This podcast is part of Pride House Media, hosted by me, Duke Mason, and produced and edited by Josh Rosenswike. Original music composed by Nel Balaban. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're there, leave us a rating and review. It really helps others to discover the show. I'd love to stay connected with you, so join the conversation by following me at James Duke Mason on Instagram and X, or by emailing me at questions at Dukesdownload.com.