Pride Month Reflections: Greg Cope‑White, Ross Mathews & Dustin Lance Black

Hey Everybody — this week on Duke’s Download, I’m doing something special for Pride Month.

Instead of one guest, I’m revisiting three conversations that have stayed with me — and honestly, feel more relevant than ever: Greg Cope‑White, Ross Mathews, and Dustin Lance Black.

Because Pride isn’t just parades and rainbow flags. It’s service. It’s visibility. It’s fighting back.

First, I look back at my conversation with Greg Cope‑White, former Marine and author of The Pink Marine (the inspiration for Netflix’s Boots). Greg talks about serving his country before “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” what acceptance actually looked like inside the Marines, and why today’s attacks — from transgender military bans to removing Harvey Milk’s name from a Navy ship — hit so personally. His story is about courage, but also about calling out political prejudice when we see it.

Then there’s Ross Mathews, who opens up about growing up gay in a tiny farming town in Washington state with zero visible role models. Hearing him talk about loneliness, finding his voice, and why LGBTQ representation in media matters so much reminded me how powerful visibility really is — and why organizations like GLAAD still matter.

And of course, Dustin Lance Black — Academy Award–winning screenwriter of Milk and longtime activist — who shares what it was like fighting for federal marriage equality. He talks strategy, backlash, and why rights are never guaranteed. His message is simple but urgent: every generation has to push forward. We can’t assume someone else will do it for us.

For me, this episode is about remembering how far we’ve come — and recognizing how much work is still ahead. With elections coming up this November, this isn’t just reflection. It’s a reminder to engage, to vote, and to protect the progress so many fought for.

Pride is joy.
 Pride is protest.
 Pride is participation.

Thanks for being here. 🌈

You can write to us at: Questions@DukesDownload.com

And follow us onInstagram: 

• @jamesdukemason
• @PrideHouseMedia

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome to Duke's Download, my new weekly podcast. I'm Duke Basin here. And each week I'll bring you candid, thought-provoking conversations with incredible guests from the worlds of politics and pop culture. Together we'll explore the stories, ideas, and moments that shape our lives and drive change. I'm so glad you're here. Now let's get started. Hello everybody, I'm Duke Mason, and welcome back to another episode of Duke's Download. It's June, which means it's Pride Month, and there will be marches and parades and rallies and celebrations of all kinds all month. So, in recognition of Pride, Stonewall, and our continued fight for our rights, I thought I'd share some important moments from three of my guests that I was honored to have joined me on my show. Each a trailblazer in their own way, each a remarkable human being, and each a true LGBTQ hero. First up is from an interview I did early on with a true American hero. And one of the first interviews I did for this show was with Greg Cope White, former Marine, author of The Pink Marine, which was the basis for the hit Netflix series Boots. Greg is a personal friend, and his coming of age story as a queer kid who enlisted in the Marines is nothing short of remarkable. You'll see what I mean. Check it out. I'm acutely aware of the timeline because you know I came out before Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed. And I remember when it was repealed and what a big deal it was. So I've always I thought that was an interesting choice because you actually enlisted before Don't Ask, Don't Tell was even a thing, which was, I mean, don't ask, don't tell was bad enough for those of listening who don't know. It was the policy that gay people could technically serve in the military as long as they weren't open about it. But back when you enlisted, gay people were actually not even allowed to serve at any capacity, or whether they were out or not.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

It was illegal, punishable by you know, by jail time and a court martial.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

See, I didn't realize until that it was actually a criminal offense. Like to knowing and to enlist and then engage in homosexual conduct. I I didn't realize it was actually something that you could be criminally liable for.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

And you know, the biggest fear, of course, because you're if you're found out you're right in the middle of maybe a room full of Marines, the biggest fear is that you're gonna get the crap beat out of you. And and but that's just not the case. I can't tell you how wonderfully accepting my fellow Marines were once I was out in the fleet, and I could, you know, I I had to keep my secret for almost everybody, but I did obviously I was 18 years old. I I I dated just like you did, and and some of those were Marines. And it it there's in my next book, there's a more of the heartbreaking story about some of those relationships.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Wow, I I can't wait. I can't wait to read it. I can't wait to read it. Um, you know, no, and I and obviously I think the show, I part of why I brought up the timeline was because it's interesting that it's that it can't that it came out right at this particular moment, given what's happening, both just in our politics and our culture uh generally, but specifically with the military, and the fact that in response to the show, the Pentagon issued a statement uh saying it was woke garbage. Um so it had to ruffle some feathers, uh obviously, within the administration, within the Defense Department. Um what did you think about that? What was your response when you saw that uh that statement?

SPEAKER_02 3:51

I, you know, I was puzzled because I don't think they've watched the show, if that's their takeaway. The the truth is, I hope they do watch the show because what you're seeing is the true microcosm of our of the American society and the military itself. You're looking at, like we just talked about, guys from every walk of life, all out for the common good. If you think about it, this is how I think about it logically, and and I think this should be their, I believe this is their position too. We are an all-volunteer military. We ask young people from all walks of life, all across the country, to enlist and in exchange for uh training and everything else, they agree to protect our constitution, even laying down their life if necessary. So anybody that's qualified to serve and willing to serve and wanting to serve to protect our constitution shouldn't be anything but embraced and celebrated. Any light that that our show gets uh for the LGBTQ community needs to be shared with with the other uh other people. You know, let's let's lift up our trans brothers and sisters. They serve our country just like anybody else.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Well, I was that was my next question. Was I I believe I saw in one of the other interviews you did that you mentioned specifically the fact that the Trump administration has banned or is in the process of banning transgender service members, and the fact that just like the gay service members in the past, that they're actually being dishonorably discharged and not even being given their uh their pensions or any benefits that they're entitled to for their service. I mean, to me, I just don't see how there's any justification for that.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

I don't either. We're we we need people. We are a country worth defending, and we have people wanting to defend it. Bring them in. Give them give them all the flowers.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

What was your take when the administration removed um Harvey Milk from the name of one of the Navy battleships? You know, I I was just it's so petty, and it also is just so I mean, aren't there better things to do? I mean, even if you were if you're opposed to to that, considering all the challenges in the world right now, the fact that that's where their attention is at to me is just mind-boggling.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

It's it's unnecessary. You know, his his legacy, Harvey Mook's legacy will never be erased, no matter who wants to do it, and or he even tries to do it. You just can't. It it exists. He he he did what he did and he served in the Navy.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Like people may not be aware of that, but I mean he actually served. So it's not like you're just naming it after some random person that had nothing to do with he actually was a he actually served the country in the military.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

It's my goal that that that his name on that ship will be restored one day, as it rightfully should.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Absolutely. What do you think the biggest challenges that queer people, you know, the c LGBTQ plus community as a whole, people in the military face today? I mean, I know given the fact that you were there before uh before gay people were allowed to serve openly, but what do you think some of those challenges probably are? I mean, are there challenges that are unique to LGBTQ plus people in the military versus people LGBTQ people outside the military? What do you think some of those unique challenges might be?

SPEAKER_02 7:31

I think it's in your question. It's the outsiders that are more worried about what's going on in the inside. Once you're inside, we're all there for the same thing. And if you are doing your job and doing it well, your brothers and sisters around you are going to support you. You know, I am so grateful to the people that I served with because my sexuality wasn't what I led with, it wasn't what they led with. You're more concerned about are you, are you my do you have my back? Are you ready to go into battle with me? Are you ready to, how can you, how can you shoot? What's your what's all that? I need to know that the person fighting alongside me is just as dedicated as I am. That's it. Absolutely. So I think the biggest challenge is is just really being being, you know, it's prejudice. It's prejudice from from legislators and politicians that aren't in there, that aren't boots on the ground, that don't understand that we're all out to do a job. I'm just, I wasn't in the Marine Corps to find a relationship or to date. I was there to find my place in the world and protect my country.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

It is always interesting how politicians, many, most of whom have never served in the military, seem to have taken such an interest in telling service members what they should do, how they should behave, or how they should operate. It seems like you should leave it to the people that actually know what they're talking about from their own lived experience. Next up is from a recent interview I did with the legendary talent Ross Matthews. What's crazy to think he's only in his, I think, 40s. I hope he wouldn't mind me saying that. But what's insane about it is he really has become such an institution. And I think some of the moments that we had during our conversation were just so poignant and so real. And he's just such a not only a kind person, but an inspiring person. And you know, he shared what it was like to grow up in a small town, not knowing if he could even exist. It's heartbreaking, but it's also real, it's inspiring. And Ross shares a bit about what that was like in our conversation. Take a listen.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

And I remember thinking to myself, truly meaning this, thinking, can I grow up? Because I didn't know if it was possible. Uh, because what did a gay grown-up look like? What did they act like? What did they sound like? What did they do? I had no idea and no way to see it. There was no internet, there wasn't, there was nothing. Maybe books.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

I mean, like, that's so true, is when you don't have you have no idea of like what like not to go, I don't want me to interrupt your your uh your answer, but like I always found it so interesting, slightly different. But like, you know, I read Barack Obama's book about how you know Dreams from my father, and he talked about how he had to learn what it meant to be a black man in America. You know, he grew up in a with a white, you know, in a white family, and yeah, and so you know, again, different, but similar in that if you're a gay person who doesn't grow up with any sense of what it means to be a gay man, or you know, then then where does that come from? And how do you form that?

SPEAKER_03 11:02

And by the way, in many ways, maybe it it's why I am not typical, right? Maybe it's I don't know. I don't know. Um, but it certainly was uh a struggle. And maybe there were I've never thought about that. Maybe there were different there were no constraints, so I got to invent what it was to be a gay man, you know. I didn't have to form that into anything, but I certainly had examples of men, but I can tell you I wasn't like them, you know. So it was um it was interesting. And so what we see now when you talk about how has it changed, well, it's changed in such drastic ways, you know. Just our show, Drag Race, is the prime example. But because it's the gayest thing that's ever existed on television, but you know, there are characters and shows and everything GLAD does, people go, What does GLAD do? GLAD, that's why I work with Glad, that's why I've hosted the GLAD Awards seven times, because it provides what I didn't have when I was 13 years old when you were born, right? It it gives you context to see people. It it's not about normalizing it, it already is normal. It's about visualizing it and seeing it and understanding it. So that's how far we've we've come, which is extraordinary. Now, listen, of course, there's so so much further to go, but it's also why when they do stupid crap, like um, I don't know, down in um Tennessee, they just changed Pride Month to Nuclear Nuclear Family Month. And I people ask me, like, what did you think? And I was like, I just laugh because like it's too late, honey. You can't put this genie back in the bottle. You can try to change the name of something, but guess what? They know us now, they know who we are. We're not ashamed anymore. So you you you you can't like what if you're in a time machine, girl, you're by yourself. That's it. You're no one's writing shotgun. Go ahead. So I laugh at that. Of course, there are total just awful injustices that are not funny, but like that kind of futile effort to go back in time, the culture has moved on, and these dinosaurs will be obsolete soon.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Ross is truly remarkable, and I am still just so grateful that he joined us. And I think it was one of the best episodes that we've done so far. The last piece I wanted to share with all of you today is also from one of my first episodes, along with Greg Cope White. One of the first people I interviewed for this podcast was one of my personal heroes going back to when I saw him. I think I was, I remember the night I was 15, 16 years old in 2009, watching Academy Award winner and LGBTQ plus activist Dustin Lance Black, when he won the Academy Award for Milk speaking on stage at the Oscars. Whether it was as the screenwriter of the film Milk or just as an activist standing up for marriage equality, Lance Black has been on the front line fighting for gay rights uh for almost two decades now. And that episode continues to not just be one of my personal favorites, but also continues to accumulate views and generate interest. I think because he gave us tangible steps about what we can do in terms of fighting for LGBTQ rights, particularly at this critical moment. And I think this is a particularly great time to look back at that episode, to look back at his words and to think about what we can do this month and all months and all the times to fight for uh for equality.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

And I went into working to fulfill that promise of you know, equal rights at the federal level for LGBT people and starting with marriage, because that's what was sitting right in front of me, and I thought I saw a path. And um, you know, Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner, Chad Griffin also saw an aggressive path that many people thought, well, it's too soon to take this to the Supreme Court and argue that the constitution applies to you know gay and lesbian people. We disagree. And now in retrospect, you look back and say, well, thank goodness we did it then, because I don't, it would not pass now uh through the Supreme Court. So it it was it did I think that we had gotten there? No. I I thought we were doing it in this strange order. I I knew there was a lot to do um on the other side of winning that. And the and the pen, I'm also keenly aware, just as someone who's studied history, if you're a minority, your lot your rights, your protections, your equality is never secure. It will there will come a time where people try to take it away again. There will come a time where for various reasons people are feeling you know, stepped on, they're feeling small, they're feeling broken, and out of that fear, they start to look for who they can knock down and stand on to feel taller again. You know, and and gay people tend to be one of the first go-to's. Uh, because we are small minorities and we are different. And um, and you know, so this moment we're in, this swing back of the pendulum is just natural. And um, but what we you know, just because it's natural and it happens uh doesn't mean it's good and doesn't mean we shouldn't uh push back. We do we have an obligation every generation to step up and to make sure we don't lose uh the the gains that were won before us. I I mean I wasn't the first person to say, hey, let's take this to the federal level, let's work for marriage equality. Those conversations have been going on for a very long time. I just was in a position to to try and you know keep pushing forward at a time the pendulum was coming at us. It's coming at us again. There's a lot we have to do and fix in our movement to get it moving the right way again. It's it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

It almost seems like there was something lining up in the universe there because I think we shot it.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

I think we shot milk in 2008, and then we had it cut and done and mixed and scored all that year. I mean, it was what it was crazy fast, as I recall.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

And then the fact that Prop 8 coincided with that, and then the fact that, as you to your point, that you had already been involved in advocacy and uh political uh, you know, polit the political realm behind the scenes, and then the fact that you know there was this cultural moment happening in the country with the passage of Prop 8, and then the fact that you won the Oscar, and I mean, I you know, I don't I don't want to make uh over, you know, I don't want to seem over uh over, you know, I could I I feel I over effusive, overly effusive, but I do truly remember what a moment it was for me. Like I had I had not met you yet. I think I was what six 15 or 16 at the time, but I remember being in my room and watching the speech. And it's you know, the speech, it was such a it almost feels like everything lined up. And then the fact that you know you made that commitment to uh you know helping to shepherd through you know ma equality and the not too distant future, too. But do you do you have you ever reflected on that? How it just felt like everything kind of lined, and then the next what five years of your life, it's your as you said, you really were sort of focused on uh for the next four years, but 20 or what it was six more years, 2020 to 2015. You got it.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yeah. It was um I mean, some of it is coincidence, and some of it isn't at all. I mean, I the uh the feeling, and I think people forget it now. Some of why marriage equality became the focus was because it wasn't because we all collectively as a community or whatever decide, oh, that's what we're gonna do. George W. Bush had attempted, uh, or at least said he was gonna attempt a constitutional amendment against marriage equality in the United States. He had named that as the goal. And and so people were taking action in both directions to try and legalize marriage equality, to try and roll it back where it had been legalized. So it was a big debate even before Proposition 8. It was on our minds, like, well, we should defend our gains. And I I believe that. Um, you know, and at the time I had no idea I would ever get married. Um, so it wasn't really my on top of mind, but it was the thing. It was the it was the front of the battle. Uh, that and don't ask, don't tell. And you know, and a lot of older gay people were like half joking with me. Like, those were the two things we wanted to to avoid was marriage and the military. Like, what are you guys doing? But those were the fronts, and there were plenty of other queer people who wanted to get married or had kids they'd like equally protected, or wanted to serve, or had been serving and wanted to be able to be open about that. And so, you know, those were the fronts.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

I think the takeaway for me from listening to these people today is that we all must continue the fight, especially now. We are strong as a community, but each of us needs to do our part, big or small, to contribute on a daily basis to the movement. If you don't know what to do or where to start, drop a comment or a DM and I will help you. Let's use this month to galvanize, to stand up, and to map out a strategy for the rest of this year. We have the midterms coming up in November. We really need to use this month that's such a special moment for our community as a jumping off point and make sure that we make the most of the rest of this year. Thanks for tuning in. Please like, subscribe, rate, and review. Happy Pride, and we will see you here next Wednesday. Thank you for joining me today on Duke's Download. This podcast is part of Pridehouse Media, hosted by me, Duke Mason, produced and edited by Josh Rosen's Wike. Original music composed by Nell Balaban. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. While you're there, leave us a rating and review. It really helps others to discover the show. I'd love to stay connected with you, so join the conversation by following me at James Duke Mason on Instagram and X, or by emailing me at questions at Dukesdownload.com.