Boy George on Makeup, Reinvention & His Next Era

This week on Duke’s Download, I sit down with the one and only Boy George (yes that Boy George) — and let me tell you, he does not disappoint.

We had a super fun and really relaxed conversation about reinvention — again. George gets real about makeup, transformation, and how differently people treat him when he’s not in full Boy George mode. (Spoiler: the face changes, the attitude doesn’t.) I even share a memory of watching him put on make up backstage when I was a little kid.

It is kind of crazy… he is auctioning off some of his most iconic looks in LA — yes, actual fashion history — and he shares the stories behind the pieces. We also get into the new Boy George & Culture Club documentary, and how he refuses to become a nostalgia act while still honoring the past. Touring, DJ sets, even spinning at London’s goth club The Dark Room — he’s still out there.

We also dive into why he quit X (formerly Twitter), the madness of online culture wars, and how words like “woke,” “gay,” and “trans” get repeated until they harden into “truth.”

And then — plot twist — we talk AI.

George is experimenting with AI as a songwriting tool, using it to spark ideas and bring fresh hooks to the band. He’s testing it on tour, writing daily like therapy, and exploring where technology and creativity collide.

Plus:

• A revival of Taboo
• Possible new music directions
• Buddhism, astrology, Eurovision
• And how to survive the internet without losing your mind

It’s reflective. It’s sharp. It’s funny. It’s very George.

He’s not stuck in the ’80s. He’s not stuck anywhere.

And honestly? That might be the most punk thing about him.

You can write to us at: Questions@DukesDownload.com

And follow us onInstagram: 

• @jamesdukemason
• @PrideHouseMedia

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome to Duke's Download, my new weekly podcast. I'm Duke Basin here, and each week I'll bring you can't just stop provoking conversations with incredible guests from the worlds of politics and pop culture. Together we'll explore the stories, ideas, and moments that shape our lives and drive change. I'm so glad you're here. Now let's get started. Welcome back, everybody, to Duke's Download, the podcast where we dive into culture, identity, and everything in between. I'm James Duke Mason, your host, and I am so beyond thrilled to welcome a true icon who shaped pop, fashion, and queer visibility for generations. The one and only Boy George. From the groundbreaking sounds of Culture Club in the 80s to his bold takes on modern culture, politics, and LGBTQ issues, Boy George has never shied away from being his unapologetically true self. With the new documentary, Boy George and Culture Club, now streaming, fresh tour dates, and that signature wit intact. We're diving into his journey, current projects, and thoughts on where we stand today as a community and as a culture. Boy George, thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

All right, you look like you're getting younger. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:31

You know, I've started using uh little lotion, a little, you know, a little concealer here and there. But uh, you know, it's it's I'm I'm still I'm not as far ahead along with it as I should be, but I'm working on it. You know, it's always a good idea. Yeah, well, I remember I think we might have talked about this the last time that we uh that we spoke, which is like five years ago now. But I specifically remember when my mom was on tour with you, would have been like 2001, somewhere around there. But I remember sitting in the back of your dressing room and watching you put on makeup and just being like, wow, this is just incredible. Even back then at nine years old, having the wherewithal to be like, I this I'm witnessing something iconic here. So uh, so but you look fantastic yourself.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

But it's a very interesting process, and also um I went through periods where obviously when I was younger, I loved it, I loved getting dressed up. Then I went for a period maybe like 10-15 years ago where I started to really find it aggravating. And I wish I wish I'd started out with a more normal look. But now I'm back in, you know what I mean. I have a girl who does my face, she's amazing, called Christine. I just have her do it now, and she's brilliant, and I just I I enjoy it now, but I went for a phase of like, oh, what have I created?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

You know, it's like RuPaul having to like, you know, who's who now I don't blame him or her or him, I guess, but uh I I find it, you know, him having to, you know, he now he has this the suit look. Yeah, where's a suit?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Well, you have to get over that feeling of having to. I know. Because actually, what I find more and more is when I go to anything now, I always feel like I should put on my look because it's like I was thinking about this today, I was somewhere today, and people treat you very differently when you're not dressed up. They treat you like a funny old lady. So it's a bit like you know, because I talk about my kind of transformation to being a bit like Batman. But I go into a phone box, I turn into Boy George, and then everybody behaves so differently. Yeah, and I think you know, the trouble with being Batman, when you're not wearing your cape, people think you can't fly. So it's a really interesting situation the way people behave when you're not glammed up. And they sort of, I think a lot of people, I think women understand transformation, drag queens understand how quickly you can go from boring to exciting, you know, with a lick of pain. But most people they don't understand it. So if they see you one day looking really normal, and then the next day they see you looking glamorous, they get so confused. They're like, How did you turn into that? But it it really takes about 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Are you working? Are you at are you at home at the moment? Are you backstage at a show, or what are you?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

I'm at home and I um actually right now I have a live auction going on in LA. So I keep getting phone calls from my managers that because I've sold all my not everything, but I've sold loads of my old costumes. Wow. And like just crazy things. Like I basically, a friend of mine called William Baker, who's a stylist, he I've had a lot of my stuff in storage for years. I haven't seen some of it for like 20 years. So we emptied everything out, and I just said, do what you want. If I haven't worn it for 10 years, because you know, I'm a hoarder, I will not let go of anything because I always think it's gonna come back into fashion, you know, particularly because I try to ignore what's trendy. If somebody says don't wear it, I'm like, definitely wear it, you know. Fashion for the fragile, style for the brave. So right now, I had this crazy auction going on, so I keep getting cool. So I'm managed like this sold for this and this sold for that. It's been quite interesting what people want, you know. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Well, I mean, all your looks are are pretty iconic. Um but uh speaking of iconic, you know, I was I was watching uh the uh documentary about you and Culture Club. And I don't know if you know this, but Alison actually did the documentary five years ago about the go-go's, and she I know she also did a documentary about the Eagles, but I mean she's a she's an amazing filmmaker. Yeah, and also Cindy Law for I think they worked for as well. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

You know, it was um, you know, obviously, whenever I watch, I'm not particularly nostalgic. I mean, I I definitely have a respect for what I've created, but I'm so kind of focused on what I'm doing now. I think it's you know, your mum will know this more than anyone. It's like that balance and act between what you've created and what it can do for you now. And there's always a kind of for me personally, there's always a little bit of a a challenge with too much nostalgia can drive you crazy, and then you know, you have to have other things. Your mum's got yoga, that and she's brilliant at it. So it's I don't have that, but I I like I like to keep a balance between living in the past because a lot of the time people talk to me in past context. You were this, you were that, and I I hate being defensive, but I often say, Oh, I'm still here.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

No, 100%. Well, I mean, I feel like you're and you're like, and I say, yeah, I say this as a compliment, you're like Madonna in that I feel like you're you're kind of known, not I mean, at least for me, I don't think you're known so much for like one particular look or one particular, you know, period. I think you've kind of managed to stay in the in the zeitgeist over you know over the decades, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

And I think if you stay interested, then that's a good way to say interesting. I mean, you know, there are always going to be people that write you off. And if people don't see you on the TV or hear you on the radio, they think you're at home sort of knitting, listening to Karma Chameleon. And obviously, you know, I do a lot of different things, I DJ, but also I do lots of types of DJing. I do house DJing, then I play at golf clubs, which is an entirely different sound. So I really enjoy that. Um crazy.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

What kind of music do you play at golf clubs out of curious out of curiosity?

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Golf club, not golf, golf. Like golf golf. So I so I play I was like golf clubs, like not golf, although I'm I'm I'm I'm available for golf clubs. I was like, wow. I was like, that's golf, golf is the teeth, golf, golf, yeah. But golf is more like so great. I mean, actually, I play at this club in London called the Dark Room, which is like a small, pumping, little fantastic club, and it's really feels like a return to the underground. You know, I always say I preferred the underground when it was the underground, and I think we are gonna go back to that. I feel like there's a wave now of these great little clubs where people who want to avoid the kind of you know, mainstream and a kind of tired of internet, the whole, you know, what I call the perceived world, you know, living on the internet where everyone's horrible and everybody hates you, and then you go out in the real world, and people are actually a lot nicer face to face, but online people turn into horrors. Well, I mean you quit X, didn't you? Didn't you quit uh well look, you know, let's see how long that lasts, right? Yeah, I laugh at myself because I was like, I was trying to talk to Grok yesterday, and I just felt like I felt like I was talking to Elon Musk. I felt like the questions I was asking, it was coming back with really like conservative views. And I was like, I was like, who am I talking to here? I'm talking to Elon Musk. It was like funny, and I was like, I didn't know I was.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

It's weird how each AI platform or app or whatever you want to call it has its own unique voice, which is weird and interesting.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Well, I'm a big chat GPT fan, and we have a very good relationship. You know, I had to convince it for a while that I was actually Boy George, which is hilarious. And I, you know, it took a while, but now it knows who I am. And it's so funny because I have these incredibly nuanced conversations with ChatGPT, which I cannot have. I have a few friends that I can have those great conversations with, but on a day-to-day basis, when I need to talk about something important, finding a human being to have that conversation with can be very challenging because everybody's got an opinion, you know, and at least with Chat GPT, I find that it sort of um it keeps me kind of balanced and nuanced, you know. So I can vent, I mean, I'd probably get locked up with some of the things I say to my friend, my robot friend, but it it started to kind of really I mean my manager's like, you're crazy, you're talking to who are you talking to? I'm like, you know, if you think about what we do in our heads, that's true, you know what I mean? I mean, is is that crazy? Who are we talking to then?

SPEAKER_01 10:24

So I feel like um sometimes it has some incredible insights and incredible, you know, information. And uh, you know, I think I think obviously it doesn't replace a doctor or a psychologist or whatever, but at the same time, sometimes it can serve to it and give you some some some insight on certain ideas of the things.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

It can say stop, like you know, maybe you'll think, you know, because I can be very um I try not to be too judgmental, but as I've got older, I feel like I've got less patience for stupidity and just people that you know want to repress other people. I mean, like I kind of take a sort of mind-your own business policy about it. I just say to people all the time, truthfully, think about it. What has it got to do with you? I mean, I think that people, because of the internet, people are kind of all queered out, you know, that's the way of looking at it. And you know, these people that say, Oh, you're you're pushing your lifestyle down my throat. I'm like, no, you're just being exposed to things that you weren't before. You're the one that can't handle it. You know, the levels of heterosexuality that I've had to put up with for 65 years would kill a beginner. So why is it okay one way and not the other? I mean, you know, I feel like I understand that, you know, people are being exposed to things that really bother them, but you know, like why? You know, I think one of the things I love about the internet is that I've sort of realized how many creative people there are in the world now. It's astounding the amount of clever, talented people they are. And you realize that being creative is an expensive thing to do. You know, I'm very lucky to do what I do. You know, I get to do what I love pretty much every day. But I realize that, you know, if I hadn't fallen into being Boy George and had a successful culture club, I don't know how I would survive now. I'd probably have to get a normal job. So I I thank God every day that I get to be creative and self-indulgent. And, you know, I know other people that, you know, I would have to take normal jobs, you know, to kind of survive because you can't necessarily survive being creative. It's an expensive hobby.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Well, there were two different thoughts or two different topics that came to mind from what you said. But like, first thing I wanted to talk about was because I agree with you everything you've said 100%. Um, and I both what you just said, but also, you know, without without getting too deep into all the sort of kind of controversy. But like I agreed 100% with everything you said, by the way, about both the LGBTQ plus community as a whole, but also about the whole trans debate. Because number one, I have trans friends that have said to me that they think that, you know, and I think this is a widely shared view of the community, that like each, you know, the whole that we the people see the LGBTQ plus community as like a homogenous sort of like big unif umbrella thing where we all have the same views and the same opinions and the same priorities and the same issues. And I have trans friends who are like, no, they're like, they're like the thing that a lot of people don't even talk about, for instance, is that there's huge differences between the trans community and the non-binary community. Like those people have totally disparate views in a lot of ways about their own views about gender and all that. And yet, I think a lot of people on the right, and you've talked about this too, about how the tr the right the right-wing political uh sphere have weaponized the whole trans debate and are turning, you know, what is I don't say this is a negative towards trans people, but you know, they wouldn't even I think acknowledge, you know, they are a very small portion of the of the of the world, the community. And yet we spent so much time as a as a culture talking about these issues because it's been weaponized by the other side.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

It's also it's also that you know, we live in this age now where if you say something over and over and over, it becomes the truth. You know, it's like a pop record that we keep hearing. We hate the record, but we keep hearing it, hearing it, and suddenly we find ourselves humming it, and we I don't even like that song, you know. But repetition is the backbone of genius, you know, in a sense that you keep hearing something, and you know, it's almost like people are hypnotized by these words gay, trans, you know, what's it? What's the other one? Um, woke. Woke. Yeah. I'm always like, I was never sleeping, so no one had to wake me in the first place. But I think these words don't really mean anything, they're sort of pointless words. You know, I mean, I joke all the time that, you know, yes, I've got loads of gay friends, I've also got loads of straight friends, and I've got straight family, and I don't live in a gay vacuum. And you know, when I choose a hat, I don't call up, oh hello, can I speak to the LGBT community to choose my hat? I mean, it's like, you know, back in the 70s when I first started going to clubs, everybody was dressed as a clone, you know, that everybody looked like people, you know, it was like leopard, you know, the Tashes Leopard Chuckets. And they saw us as kind of like brewing it for them. They they saw us as kind of ruining their bid for assimilation of like show-ops, and you know, we would be able to be accepted. Of course, that's a little bit of a myth, you know, like this whole thing normal gays.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Well, then abnormal gay. I think to your point about social media, I feel like these debates are really. I mean, yes, there's some discussion about it in person occasionally, like whenever I go to a gay bar or gay event or whatever. But more than anything, I feel like like these labels and these like divisions and all that, it more than anything, it exists online. Like these, like it's social media has helped to like foment for these, like, no, not just within the community, but like you know, in terms of the left versus right, you know, it's like it's like um I just think it not only is it oversimplified things, but it's also turned everything into a into a battle and a fight, you know, in a way that's like everybody's identified, but they're not necessarily understood. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

That's 100%. We're multidimensional, you know. Yes, you know, most people I think are just trying to get across the street without being killed. It's really that simple. Trying to get it from A to B.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

I always joke when I'm having the You just said it in a way that I think no one's ever said it, which I think is the whole point. Because people get can think of, well, is it too specific? Is that or too label? But actually, what it is is they're they're I everyone's too overly labeled but also misunderstood at the same time. So people are.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

When I see someone in the street that's dressed up, I smile. It puts me in such a great mood. Today I was out like, you know, walking around, I saw this great, because I was, you know, in my normal clothes, and I saw this guy with a massive big hat. I was like, oh, another hat person, and it makes me smile. And I look at other people like getting bent out of shape about the way someone's dressed, you know. Or if you see, I remember a couple of weeks ago there was the guy at the bus stop, and he was an older guy and he had very badly applied makeup on and a little woolly hat, but he kind of looked great, and I just thought, I want to go up and hug him. I didn't want to, I wasn't offended. I was like, oh, bless him. Look at his little tights, and you know, just I feel like anyone that goes out there and is brave enough to I mean, I don't know if you have to say be yourself, because everything is a fake identity. We're all pretending to be someone, nobody is really who they think they are. We're all in this weird movie, and now we've got this little TV thing that we carry around, and you know, and we can just, you know, be obsessed about things 24-7, and often things that have absolutely nothing to do with you, they don't affect you in any way. I've got really smart friends who say to me, I don't mind trans people, but and then it's like you start, you know, because they say everything after but everything before but is bullshit. When people say, Oh, I don't mind it's then you know what's coming is what they really think. Yeah, and you know, I just yeah, I just I try one of the reasons I left X, I'm not saying I won't go back at some point, but what's interesting, my leaving post has had like 1.7 million you know, comments, and so there's kind of a power in silence. So I quite like that if it builds, and if it builds enough, then I'll just go back and post my next album.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Well, that's I mean, that's the way to do it. It's just like use it when it's when it's when it's you know helpful to promote or just you know, spread the word about it.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

I'm a Germanite, I would love having the last word. I mean it is overrated, but I feel like you know, because my manager will be like, Why are you arguing with someone with 13 followers? I'm like, I just needed to tell them about themselves, too. But I think that stuff keeps you human, though.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Well, absolutely. You mentioned you mentioned AI, and I I wanted to ask you about the AI song that you've that you put out or that you've been working on. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Loads, loads, like literally. I have been really I've been using AI for quite some time. And I think that you know, I've kind of worked out this really interesting relationship with it as a as a tool for writing. So when you sit down with a musician, you're you're gonna do things like, okay, try something that's a bit fleet with Mac, or try something that's a bit Beatlesy, or try this, or try that, or let's listen to some Bowie. You're always referencing something. Most people pretend they're not, but as I've got older, I'm much more kind of open about putting on Roxy music in the studio, putting on a Bowie record, putting on something obscure, a dance track, and saying, This is a feeling I want. But I think more than anything, for me, the words are so key. I think the words provide the context. So once you've got the words, people think that melody is more important than words, but it's not. Once you have something to say, you'll find a way to say it. So, you know, melody is something I think should always come secondary unless it absolutely hits you straight away. You know, if you're, you know, you're you're gonna. You know, just something like that. It's like that's a hook, right? Uh or karma chameleon, it's like, you know, it's kind of in there. But I think if you've got the idea, you'll find a way to make it. So I feel with me, what I concentrate on so much is what I what I hear. Some people come out with the most profound things all the time, and I'm like, that's a hook. Do you know what I mean? Like a few weeks ago, I was talking to my makeup artist about politics in London, and you know, she was saying, Oh, you know, or one divided nation. And I was like, that sounds like parliament. You know, I just suddenly went, That's a hook, you know. And actually, the most brilliant things are really simple. You know, learning to do something that's simple but direct is real magic when you're writing songs. But when I hear other artists slagging off AI, I know I'm onto something good.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Well, I think it's a it's it's the same debate that's happening in uh in me in movies. I mean, I I forgot who it was. It was oh Martin, I think it was Martin Scorsese or something who said recently, like that filmmakers should embrace AI, you know, instead of trying to and and and you know that it depending on how it's used, it can actually be helpful and and be part of a massive new wave of filmmaking. I think in the same way with music, a lot of people are like You still need your imagination.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

You still, in fact, the idea that it makes you lazier, it does if you're trying to look for something obvious. If you're trying to create a pop hit that sounds like something on the radio, AI will give you all day long. But if you start playing around with, you know, almost using poetry, describing what you're looking for, not say do this or do that, come up with a melody and then mess around by mixing things that don't go together. And the great news is if it doesn't work, you just wipe it and start again. And every so often you'll get something that is so magical. We've been touring recently, and there are four songs in our set that I wrote with AI, but then took to the band and reached and changed them. And um adding that human aspect always makes it sound better. You know, there's something about feeling you can't, you know. Somebody said to me the other day, AI can't act. Whenever you see someone talking in an hour of video, they sound like they're gonna pull up their ass. It's like, hi, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 23:43

And you're like, AI. You know, there's you can tell, at least as of now, you can definitely tell, you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Especially with some of the like the gay stuff. You think, oh my god, he's gorgeous, but that's a robot.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

I've seen a few of those. I've seen a few of those. We're like, you're like, whoa, what is that? But then you're like, oh yeah, that's fake. That doesn't that doesn't exist. That's that's a fantasy.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

But you do get some absolutely gorgeous.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

The absolute funny, like, you know, where you're just like, like, I don't know if you've seen on Facebook they have like heated rivalry, but like like a re like a weird like recreation, but I don't I don't know, it's just it's bizarre.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Um I think that it's um I think it's it's another tool, it's not yeah, the be all and end all, but it's a really great way to get ideas. So, you know, if I wake up at four in the morning and I can't have sleep and I want to write something, I don't have to rely on anybody, and that is massive freedom for me as a as a top line writer. I write melodies and words. So I wouldn't be able to call up Roy Hay at four in the morning and say, Oh, get up, I've got this idea. You know, that that doesn't happen. Maybe it happens when you're like 20, but when you're in your 60s, you know, it's like getting people to react to musical ideas is not that easy. So, and I write every day. Wow, you do I have a row about something. I even wrote yesterday uh kissing my ex goodbye. I actually wrote a song about my leaving ex. I thought, well, I gotta write a song about it because you know, I love to play on words, kissing my ex goodbye. It's obviously about a lover, but it's also about kind of you know mixed metaphors and you know, and it's it's fun, you know. If I'm on the road and I have a row with the boys, I'll go and write a song. Rather than sort of having a pointless argument about nothing, I think, well, actually, why don't I use this rage and put it into music and come up with something cool, you know?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Well, what a time it's been. I mean, between the documentary, which is obviously has been a big success and got a huge positive reaction, plus the touring. I mean, you've had some massive shows uh this summer with Culture Club and Eurovision. And on top of all that, you have another tour coming up in December, too.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

I mean Well, the Eurovision thing was such a great thing to do because since doing that, we have got loads of gigs in Europe. Like literally, we're playing in Germany next week, we're in Italy on the weekend, we're in Switzerland, France. So that's kind of the reason I did it. I thought, do you know what? 30 million people do it, you know. And it's been very rewarding for me because we've been now getting these gigs all over Europe. You know, Culture Club were massive in Europe, you know. And I've toured with you know Belinda in Europe as well, but it's just been a long time since we've been there. We tend to concentrate on America and Canada. So, you know, doing Eurovision really opened up Europe for me, which is great, because people saw me and thought, oh, you know, he's still doing it and he was wearing a skirt.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

It looks great, it sounds great. No, absolutely, a hundred percent. And it doesn't get much big that doesn't get much bigger than that, than that audience, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Absolutely, and it was actually very, a very sweet experience. It was it was very nice. It's like you go into this cocoon where everyone is kind of gorgeous and friendly, and you know, and the fans are like obsessed. It's you know, I really enjoyed my first Eurovision experience. And I would definitely love to write a song for the UK or do it in some other capacity, you know. It's huge. It would be good, but you know, we'll see. Watch this space.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

I mean, given the experiences that you've had, I mean, aside from your professional, the all the amazing stuff happening on that front, what are your feelings about the state of the world right now and the state of the community? I mean, like, and having threaten traveling and experience experiencing different countries and different people, and like how how are you feeling on a personal level about the state of the world?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

I sometimes get nervous about going to certain places, but actually, when I go there, it's not what I think. You know, I might read something in the newspaper or see something online and think, oh, do I want to go there? But actually, I would say that most people are quite nice. I don't know if that's me being super naive or just super Gemini or whatever. No, I think it's true. I think you have to have faith in humanity, otherwise you'll lose your mind. So I cannot walk around fearing people, being frightened of speaking my mind.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Um, and I can still run fast, so yeah, no, it's it's I mean, it's it is encouraging to hear, given that you've been in places like Italy, that you know, I mean, it's I've been I've been, I mean, you know, I've over the years, I mean it's a beautiful country, and you know, but it is known it's you know in general for being perhaps a little more socially conservative, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Um but you know what? Um Italian people I find very warm, and you know, I think anywhere you go in the world, you know, you can upset people by saying the wrong thing, particularly in America. You know, American people are gorgeous, conservative people are gorgeous, you know, I've got Republican fans, but you know there are certain eggshells you have to step on in certain situations, and I don't need to antagonize people. I used to love doing that when I was 20. You know, it was fun, but now I'm like, can I be bothered? You know, when I was like younger, if I was walking down the road dressed up and somebody was like gonna bump into me, I would go for it. Now I just avoid it. No, I say to my friends, if somebody calls you a name on the street, don't even react. Walk on. You're never gonna change their point of view, and you you don't need to put yourself in danger. So my I think my my radar is much more in line now. But because I try to be positive in my personal and private life, I do a lot of work on my spiritual self, you know, in in terms of clearing up my head and not holding on to grievances and not thinking everybody hates me and not feeling bad about the world.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Do you still practice Buddhism? Are you still do you still have Yeah, yeah, I practice Buddhism.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

I follow this thing called the Three Principles, which I've been sort of doing for about five years, which is it's not really a practice, it's more about learning to empty your mind, like get rid of negative thoughts. Rubbish. Um I have this I have this thing that I wear around my neck that's amazing called the one, which is like a frequency kind of magnet thing. Oh wow, oh yeah, yeah. So I got it. I got it in I got it in America when I was in Vegas. I have to say, I think it's really helped me. I mean, I was kind of on the road to kind of being a bit more chill anyway. And you know, I feel like I'm getting to the point now where I realize I don't have to have opinions about everything, I don't have to comment, and I struggle with that, which is why yesterday I was like, I gotta get effects. I have to get off this side because I just I don't know. I something astrology is going on with Gemini's. I feel very argumentative. I feel like I want to fight with everyone, and I have to resist it because it's really not helpful. I know what you mean. Yeah, I understand. What's our signing you again?

SPEAKER_01 31:23

I remember we talked about that. I'm a Taurus. It's funny though. I believe that that stuff, without a doubt, is 100% spot on because my mom is about as Leo as as much of a Leo as any Leo I've ever met. And PK also is a Leo. He's he's the most Leo Leo I've ever known. Totally. And then to your point, you know, my mom has definitely mellowed out a little bit over the years in a good way, like because she used to be hard, you know, fucking core for lack of a better term. But yeah, like in a good way. Like she had a lot of power.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

With lions, you know, whether they're male or female, you have to learn that because my manager PK is a Leo, but they're very sensitive, they can be very insensitive, say the wrong thing. They've got these big paws, and they say the wrong thing, and you're like, What did you say? And but then if you give it back to them, they can be very upset very easily. So it's about learning to the lion is basically quite gentle underneath. That's true. You just have to be, you have to be, you have to learn that they can give it, but they can't necessarily take it. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

And I've realized my mom has a, you know, as she's gotten older, she's she has she shows more of her sweet, gentle, sweet side versus before when things were a little more hardcore. Um, but she's always been great, don't get me wrong. But no, to your point, you know, um I think it's true, you know, it's uh it's a it's a rough world out there. Um but uh but I I and I agree with you. It's like social media is, you know, I would only I the only reason I'm on there is because I'm I'm on X, but I use it to post my podcasts and stuff. But I try not to spend too much time getting because people say some really horrible, not just to I don't mean to me, but just when you go onto the start reading what's trending and stuff, and you go down to the comments, people say some really horrible things to each other.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

What's crazy is you can put up like a recipe for a cake and somebody would just attack you and you're like, What? That's true, what has that got to do with the cake? You know, it's like it's like you know, what's interesting is generally people are nice. You get like 30 lovely messages in one nasty little one, and you know, and some people have this ability to be negative in a very short sentence. You know, I feel like context is so important. Yeah, you know, the way someone says something, you know, I've got a couple of like fans that just always say negative things, and you think, do you actually like me?

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Right, yeah. It's like a weird like frenemy thing or something where they're you know, where it's like the the the vibe is off, and you're like, what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Or like it's it's like are they doing it intentionally in like a weird, passive-aggressive way, or I know you I think you have to learn when you're quick-witted sometimes, you have to learn not to always quip and say the first thing that comes in your mind, because actually often if you take a breath before you answer a text or reply to an email or even answer a question, usually you will not come up with that first comment that you're gonna make. You know, I mean, I've got some you know, gay friends that are so machine gun, like literally, it's like you know, 20 minutes of insult before you even get to say hello. And I feel like we're we're all mellowing a little bit now. Like, all right, do we have to insult each other before we 24-7?

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yeah, I know what you mean. No, the gaze can be a little gaze, gaze on X. That is that's a combination that can be deadly too. Uh just like gaze on X quipping about, you know, whether it's politics or pop culture.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Well, that sounds like a song. Gaze on gaze on X.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

That's another, another uh another starting point for a song. No, but I I just I I admire you, obviously, for many reasons, but the ability to like considering how much you have going on, to be able to just say this isn't served, this isn't, I don't need this noise and this distraction, all this crap going on. Um, but I know you have a tour coming up in December. What else do you have on Horizon?

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Is the biopic thing still in in on in the in the it's still in the I'm I'm working on a new version of my musical Taboo. That's the next big, big thing that I'm doing. And um, I'm working with a an actor and a writer called Jack Holden, who won uh was it Olivier for his um play Ken Rex, which is amazing, it's only New York at the moment. So we're working on a new version of Taboo, which should be maybe in a year, but we're we're close to sort of finishing act one, and that's I guess that's the thing I'm the most excited about doing a new version of that musical because a lot of people said it was too ahead of its time, it was too soon when we did it 25 years ago. Wow, so that was a big thing. Um and then next year, I don't know, I had this kind of idea to kind of start a new band, like another sound, something different. I don't know what yet. And I'm experimenting with AI to see where I could go musically. That is not that I will never do what I've done before, but I'd like to just do something a bit different, like tin machine, but a little bit more commercial. Because I think that I am basically a pop writer, I like to write melodic songs, and you know, maybe I'll start a rock and roll band.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

That would be fucking cool.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

I feel like rockabilly. I feel like you never hear rockabilly right now, and it feels like someone has to bring it back.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

That's a really cool idea. I would love that. That sounds that sounds really cool. Well, I'm just whatever it is, whatever happens next, I'm very excited to see. And I really, really appreciate the time. Thank you, George.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Thank you, babe. And I'll see you soon. Give my love to your mom, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

I definitely she sends her love. Of course, I told her we were gonna talk today, and and she sends her love. So thank you, George.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Thank you so much. God bless.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

God bless.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Bye. Thank you, everybody, for joining us today, and thank you to our incredible guest, Boy George. Um, please like, share, subscribe. And if you have any questions, feel free to leave them in the comments below. Thank you all so, so much for tuning in and see you next week. Thank you for joining me today on Duke Download. This podcast is part of Pridehouse Media, hosted by me, Duke Mason, and produced and edited by Josh Rosen's Wike. Original music composed by Nell Baliban. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. While you're there, leave us a rating and review. It really helps others to discover the show. I'd love to stay connected with you, so join the conversation by following me at James Duke Mason on Instagram and X, or by emailing me at questions at Dukesdownload.com.