To The Moon With The Luna's Podcast
A fun, educational, and relatable couples podcast where we get to ask each other questions, break down Bitcoin, and bring on guests to add expert insight.
To The Moon With The Luna's Podcast
Decentralized Faith
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode of To The Moon with the Luna's Podcast Pastor Alan Armstrong dives into the intersection of faith and finance, sharing how his spiritual journey led him to see Bitcoin as a morally sound form of money. He unpacks how Bitcoin’s decentralization can reflect biblical principles like honesty, transparency, and stewardship.
Alan also offers practical insights on accepting Bitcoin for tithes and offerings, the importance of self-custody, and how to navigate this emerging space with wisdom. Throughout the conversation, he keeps the focus where it belongs: on faith in Jesus Christ as the true foundation, no matter what form money takes.
Whether you're curious about Bitcoin or looking to align your financial decisions with your beliefs, this episode brings a thoughtful and grounded perspective.
If you enjoyed this episode, share it with someone who needs to understand Bitcoin Better.
The difference between gold and bitcoin is that you can actually custody Bitcoin. You don't need anyone's permission. Uh, and and you can take it anywhere you want. Those who hold their own keys in the future, maybe not even the far future, maybe the very near future, uh, are gonna have an advantage against those who are in ETFs only or in whatever other instrument there is. But you know, it is what it is. People want that, they're gonna have it. I really think those who hold their own keys are going to have an advantage.
SPEAKER_00And all right, guys, welcome back to the moon with the luminous podcast. Today's Bitcoin price is sitting around 74,600. Uh today, uh Danielle is sending this one out. Uh, she's taking one for the team. Uh babysitter uh canceled, so she's watching the little ones. We're still still super excited. Uh, we got Alan Armstrong on on the podcast today, and so uh we're just fired up. I know he has a unique story, uh, a book as well. And so we're just gonna hopefully dive into all that and uh go from there. How are you doing today, Alan? I'm doing well, sir. A lot better than last week. So very thankful for that. Nice, nice. And I we were talking offline, we were both sick last week. So I just kind of want to dive into this and let's just kind of jump into your story. Like, when did you kind of get introduced to Bitcoin?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I got introduced to Bitcoin, like I guess technically for the first time. Boy, I don't I couldn't even tell you the year, uh, but it was back in the Bitcoin faucet days. You know, there was all this hype about uh the Bitcoin faucet lately, and they were saying, Oh, the Bitcoin faucet's back, and then it turned out to be a marketing thing. But um the real Bitcoin faucet I remember back in the day, uh I for I don't even remember how I landed on the page, but somehow I landed on the Bitcoin faucet page. And long story short, I didn't really understand what it was, and uh I think it was like you put in your email or something, and they send bitcoins to you or something like that. But I ended up just being too confused with the with how to custody them because this was back in the day where you had to like pretty much it wasn't as easy as it is now, right? You couldn't just download a nice wallet and and have instructions. It was like you have to have the the node, and it was very, very complex back then, and relative to how co how easy it is now, at least. And I just said, oh, forget it, I'll never use these things. And um back then it was a lot of gambling, right? Websites that kind of took took Bitcoin, if you will. And so I'm like, well, I'm not a gambler, I'm not gonna go on these websites, so I'll never use these things, and plus I don't understand them, so whatever. That was my first exposure to Bitcoin. It was the Bitcoin faucet and me just being apathetic and not caring to do the work to try to understand how I can have these things, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00And I think it was talking about what year are we talking about when you see it?
SPEAKER_01I couldn't even tell I couldn't even tell you. Like it had to so big the Bitcoin faucet, it had to be like 2010, maybe. Oh wow. Uh I think it was really early. Don't quote me on the year because I don't remember the year, but whenever the Bitcoin faucet was actively giving out Bitcoins, I think it was five at a time. Okay. Um, that they did. It was around that time. Okay. So and I I I remember in like 2020 thinking, man, maybe I can find my e my maybe I can get into my old like hot mail account from when I was like, you know, 14 or however old I was. Um if I could get into if I can get into that account, maybe my Bitcoin faucet bitcoins are still there. But uh no, you know, I it wasn't possible. So so that was my first exposure, and then it wasn't until 2017 that I got exposure again where Bitcoin had a had that crazy bull market and it came on my radar. Um and I thought, wow, that's crazy, man. Like it was like 10,000, 15,000, 20,000. And I'm thinking, man, 20,000 times five Bitcoins, like 100 grand, you know, that I just kind of let not like that. I just flushed down the toilet essentially. Uh so then I bought some dogecoin because I thought Bitcoin was too expensive in 2017. So I bought some dogecoin for like uh under a penny or around a penny, and then had twins, and then Bitcoin crashed, and I thought, oh, okay, you know, it wasn't anything, so I didn't miss anything and forgot about my dogecoin. And then in 2020, that's when I got serious about it, because that's when stuff really started happening in the world, and I thought, man, we have a problem here with money, and I don't know what the solution is, and then Bitcoin ran up again, and then I remember I had Dogecoin, and Dogecoin, if you remember, ran up like crazy in 2020 with the Elon stuff, and it went to like I don't remember, but I'm like, oh, I still have that stuff. So I went and I looked, and there's my dogecoin, and it blew up, and I'm like, wow. But I knew at that point, I said, okay, Dogecoin, that was like kind of a joke, that wasn't serious. I bought it as a joke. I knew it was a joke, I knew it was a fluke. So I had I had made all this money now on Dogecoin on accident, and I never pretended to know what I was doing, you know what I mean? It was just like it is what it is, but Bitcoin, I instinctively knew something different. There's something different about this. It's different than the Doges and the other coins. I knew it was different, and so around 2020 is when I decided I need to figure out what Bitcoin is, and I went down the rabbit hole, and then the rest is history. So I had sort of a layered exposure to Bitcoin early, then 2017, and then 2020 is when I was like, okay, I've I've let this thing pass me three times, well, two times. I don't want to let it pass me the third. And I had and I went and I went down the rabbit hole and had to figure it out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 2020 seems uh overall, no matter what, for a lot of people, it just seemed like when the lights went on for everybody. Um, everybody's home, everyone's studying, everyone's trying to figure things out, uh, everyone's on the internet, you know, and Bitcoin's everywhere, it seemed like. And so, no, I think I think that's actually pretty normal too, with the um with 2020 just being like, you know, everyone's just kind of like eyes open, like, hey, let me see what this is. Um, but that's interesting though, too. Like, you know, you came around three times too. Usually uh when people come around it and they don't get it the first or you know, especially the second time, they're just gonna be like, you know what, I'm pretty much done with this. Yeah. And so fortunately you had like three opportunities where you're like, okay, let me let me kind of just dig deep on on this. Um, I know you kind of also shared, um, I know you're, I believe you're a pastor of a church, correct? Yep. Nice. And you um and so you you go on X, you're on, you're known as Pastor Coin. Tell me like how all of this comes together. Uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I still don't know. Uh it was, I don't know. I got I got interested in Bitcoin and I learned about it, and then I realized, okay, Bitcoin's not just like an investment, it's something bigger. And the problem it's solving is is a theological problem and a moral problem. And so that's when I got serious about it, was because you know, I tell people I'm a bit coiner because I'm a Christian. That's really the only reason I'm a bit coiner, is because I'm a Christian. If if if I only viewed Bitcoin as an investment, as a way to like, you know, make more money or something, then I wouldn't even bother with this pastor coin stuff or anything. Because who cares, right? There's there's a hundred million investments out there where you can put fiat money and hope that it goes up, right? Um, why why do this? Well, it's because fiat money is morally how how do I say this? It's it's morally repugnant, it's it's evil, it's wicked, it hurts people, it hurts society, it's dishonest. Go down the list. And Bitcoin is an honest ledger. It it represents everything the Bible says about monetary policy and what money should be. Bitcoin encodes it, it exemplifies it. I don't I wouldn't go as far as saying like Bitcoin is God's money or something, because I don't really think God cares necessarily about um well, I don't want to say that. God cares about the money we use, but I don't think he's playing favorites where he's in heaven saying Bitcoin is mine and everything else isn't, right? Like I I'm not a hater of gold. I think gold is is has been money for a long time, and I think I don't think it's going anywhere. I just think Bitcoin is better. So and in in that sense, Bitcoin, uh yeah, so going back to what I was originally saying, Bitcoin is a moral money, it's a money that's biblically compliant, and so that's why I advocate for it. Um not because right, it not because it's an investment. If it was an investment, I wouldn't even wouldn't even bother. So I don't know, I kind of trailed thoughts there, but I hope that answers the question.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it it it does. Um we'll we'll kind of dig a little bit more too into it. Like, so like how do you see the Bible like either supporting something like Bitcoin or maybe even like challenging it? Like, how do you see that?
SPEAKER_01Um well, I think the Bible supports sound money, it supports hard money, it supports honesty and integrity in financial dealings. And Bitcoin is the most honest, fair, just monetary network we have. Um I I can't I mean there's really nothing else like it in the world. Uh like I mentioned gold before, and gold is the original hard money, right? It's scarce, it's indestructible, it takes proof of work, and so forth. But Bitcoin has improved on gold in many ways, but I think the the the the most important way it's improved on gold is it's separated money from people. And what I mean by that is not that people don't use money, of course, people use money. What I mean is that people no longer have the authority over the policy of the money, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think it's a lot of people. With gold, we we've seen the the attack vector in gold is centralization, right? Uh and gold is just a metal, like it's not a living thing, it's it's a metal, it's humans that use it for for its purposes that make it what it is. But you can centralize it, and when you centralize it, then you can control basically the money supply because you're issuing notes and so on and so forth. So that's the major attack uh vector in gold. It's been exploited. And people saying we need to go back to a gold standard. Well, like that's assuming we're not gonna just centralize it again. Like, of course we're gonna centralize it again. Go back to a gold standard and maybe it's good for a while, but eventually we're gonna centralize it, and eventually we're gonna print more money and we're gonna be right back to where we are. Bitcoin takes that ability away. It's like it it's it's it's math, it's code. You can't uh you can't just go in there and centralize it all. It's it's it's decentralized by design. So that's the way I see it in terms of of the Bible and why I think it is the most biblically compliant money we have, uh, because it it separates money from the state. And that's the most important thing we can do right now, in my opinion, is separate money from the state.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And and so with like gold being sound money, right? And you know, being set, and then it it went to being centralized, and then it has like these ETFs, and then we have all of these different instruments for gold, right? Because it got centralized. But it's still it's still considered one of the hardest and soundest money out there. With Bitcoin, you know, now we're getting this introduction to all these ETFs. It feels like they're just flying off the shelf now and in in the stock market. And I I believe it's digital gold, it's the soundest, hardest asset that we have. It's nothing we've ever seen before. But also with all of these different instruments coming to play, do you still think it's not getting centralized at all? Or is it going to be like something like gold where it does kind of get centralized a little bit?
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, what I can see happening with eat the ETFs and all the financialization being built around Bitcoin is um a situation where if you don't hold your Bitcoin yourself, I mean, there there probably already is more Bitcoin out there floating around than really exists, right? If you know what I mean, like with institutions and stuff. I'm pretty sure that's already happening. But the difference between gold and Bitcoin is that you can actually custody Bitcoin. You don't need anyone's permission. Uh, and and you can take it anywhere you want. And so those who hold their own keys in the future, maybe not even the the far future, maybe the very near future, uh are gonna are gonna have an advantage against those who are in ETFs only or in you know whatever other instrument there is. There's like I saw one today, Goldman Sachs, a Bitcoin income or something or another, where you get paid yield and it's options trading, and they do, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, guys, like like I mean, you can't stop it, it's gonna happen, it's part of the natural development of Bitcoin. It it is what it is. It we all knew it was coming eventually. But I'm looking at this and I'm just going, This is like this is missing the point completely. Um, but you know, it is what it is. So people want that, they're gonna have it. But I really think those who hold their own keys are going to have an advantage, and that is why Bitcoin, I don't think, will ever be centralized, there will always be distribution uh of it, and there's still in every year Bitcoin adoption is growing and people are using it peer-to-peer. Last year I paid for my pool. Um I needed a new liner in my pool, and I needed a new uh pump, and and we wanted to convert it to salt water, and there was this big job, right? And the guy comes over to to quote me, and he goes, Okay, it's gonna be this much money, and it was a big number. And I said, Bro, I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't have that kind of money, but if you take Bitcoin, I can pay you the full amount like immediately. And he said, Let me call my boss. So he calls his boss and he comes back like five minutes later, he's like, Yeah, we'll take Bitcoin. So uh sometimes you just have to ask, you know what I mean? But um, so there's people like me out here who are using it in in transactions as you would any other money. Uh, and so that's that's only growing every year as well. So the financialization is a thing, uh, but I I just think it's a it was inevitable, and eventually big people will realize real Bitcoin's better and it'll just win out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's too great of an idea, too, for all of these people not to participate. Institutions, ETFs, um, all of the every everybody, right? These countries, these nation states, I think they're all gonna get into it, and it's just a matter of time. It's too big of an idea, a great of an idea as well, for it not to be touched everywhere and just kind of be messed with, you know, with all of those.
SPEAKER_01I was at Costco today, spending more than I should. And always everybody at everybody that goes to Costco. You just can't. You can't just I mean, when a package of like beef jerky is 20 bucks, like what the heck? So um, I was at Costco and I went, I was going to pay, and my wife took my debit card and forgot to put it back in my wallet, and I'm like, oh no. Um my and my Costco MasterCard is expired. I only use it to to uh to sign in or whatever, right? Like I have the non-expired one, but I don't really, I just I haven't put it in my wallet, so I just use it to scan my membership. So my credit card I couldn't use because it was expired. I had no debit card, and my only other credit card was Visa, and they don't take Visa. So I'm at the checkout with like$400 of food and I can't pay. So I'm like, I don't know what to tell to the cashier said, I don't know what to tell you, man. Um, my wife has my debit card, I can't pay. And he just looks at me and I say, you know what? I have Bitcoin though. And he goes, Oh yeah? I go, Yeah, but I don't know that you guys, Costco doesn't accept Bitcoin. And he goes, If you give me the Bitcoin, I'll pay for you. Oh nice. And I go, really? Like, because I'll send it to you right now. Like if you if you pay the if you tap your card on the thing and you pay my groceries, I'll send you the equivalent in Bitcoin, like right now. And his other coworker was there, and it was she was like, uh, she was like, whatever. She's like, don't do that, you're gonna get in trouble, you're gonna get in trouble. Yeah, uh, you know, and I'm like, are you sure? And he's like, all right, all right. So he didn't end up doing it, but I was like that close.
SPEAKER_00Oh, dude, that's so good though. I would never yeah, I would never think of that because Costco's really too like they're just like straight, straight up. Like, hey, debit, debit or debit or no no food uh at Costco. Uh no, I'm gonna start doing that though. I'm just gonna ask, hey, will you just take it? Because you're right, you never know. You never know. And I hate when I hear people on the news or just like, or even when I talk to normal people out in the wild and they're just like, you can't even buy coffee with it. I'm like, oh my god, you have no idea. You just you're regurgitating like a parrot, like what you hear on TV. I'm like, don't you can go to steak and shake if you're American, they straight up take it. Yeah, they well, um I'm in California. They don't we don't have one out here. I don't think we have any steak and shakes out here. I never grew up with a steak and shaker of bacon.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've never been either. I'm in Canada, so I I've never been. But as soon as I'm in the States and it's it's close, I'm going.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I need to, I definitely I'm just gonna start asking though, people, because that's that's just help, that's just gonna help adoption. And um, people are just gonna like it's probably gonna perk people's ideas, like, oh what? Like people start more people are asking us about like if we take Bitcoin or not. And then that's just like when you're just like in your their wheels rolling now, too. And so um, yeah, I'm definitely gonna do that. Uh, I know you're a pastor of a church, and um how long have you been pastoring for?
SPEAKER_01Um over a decade, probably.
SPEAKER_00Nice, okay. Okay, yeah, over this is your own church.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so this the church I pastor now, I started uh 10 years ago.
SPEAKER_00Well, 10 in 10 in a few months, yeah. So how does this work with tithes and stuff? Do you guys have like Bitcoin on your guys' reserves? Are you collecting Bitcoin?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we accept Bitcoin on our website and in person. Um not many people give Bitcoin. Um a good chunk of our congregation. We're a small church, but a good number of us are Bitcoiners, and we just give our fiat. We don't give Bitcoin. I get a little bit of Bitcoin sometimes, but uh our church by just buys it pretty much. We uh if we have a surplus, we use the surplus and we buy Bitcoin. So we have it on our on our uh balance sheet. And uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00So nice and uh everyone's cool with it too. Like since I know you said you have some Bitcoiners, are there like some non-bitcoiners that go to your guys' church?
SPEAKER_01Uh there's nobody who I would describe as like a non-bitcoiner in in in the sense that they're like hostile to it. Um if if they're you know the those at my church who who aren't Bitcoiners are just like you know, they don't really care either way, right? It's not really something they, you know, are that's on their radar. But most most of us are Bitcoiners. Um at first, when I first proposed the idea, like I lost some people, some people left the church because. I said uh we're gonna we're gonna have Bitcoin as a church. And I don't know, they were offended by that, they thought it was irresponsible or whatever, and so they left, um, which was kind of weird to be honest. Didn't expect that. But then others got orange pilled, and and here we are now. So, you know, I was talking to somebody on Twitter just before I jumped on here, and they were asking me, they wanted to donate to a missions group some Bitcoin, and the guy was saying, Oh, we can't accept that. It's it's uh as a charity, we can't accept that. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, I've been accepting Bitcoin at our church for like four years, three or four years, whatever it's been, and buying it, literally buying Bitcoin. We I had a guy put an ounce of gold in the offering plate. Legit, an ounce of gold in the offering plate back in like 2021. And I remember looking at it going, what someone gave an ounce of gold? What the heck? This is crazy. So I I I talked to our little leadership team, and I said, I'm gonna sell this and buy Bitcoin. And they said, sure. So I I I so you can do this stuff, like as a church in Canada, and I know in the States, like you can have assets, you can own assets as an organization, and Bitcoin is just another asset according to to the to their rules, it's just another asset. So it just blew my mind that there's a there's a there's a missions organization out there that's denying funding because it's coming in Bitcoin. Like that seems to me, that seems like mismanagement. That seems irresponsible. Like if somebody came to me and they said, Hey, uh, I want to donate to the church, I want to donate Ethereum. I would say, okay, here, send it. And then I would sell it and buy Bitcoin. Exactly. Exactly. Why are you turning down something that you can you use, right? Like, I don't understand.
SPEAKER_00Any anything. Like, I would like even donations, clothes, anything. Like, why would you turn down anything? If, like, that's oh my god, that's so funny. That is definitely mismanagement of funds. Whoever they're uh they might need to reconsider like who they put in charge of their funds there, uh, because they're like pushing away money, basically, and the best form of money too. Yeah, that's so funny. And then I know you shared that uh, so uh you mentioned it into your uh congregation and people left. Was it like they just got up and left like right there and then, or did they like not come back?
SPEAKER_01No, it was just like, hey, where did so and so go? I haven't seen him for a while. You know, and then you give him a call, hey, where you been, buddy? And it goes to the answering machine, and and then you see it. Like, I remember the one one particular guy who I was like, Man, uh, he hasn't been around in a couple weeks, and he was always there, he was like pretty consistent guy. And um, anyways, I said, Where did he go? I tried calling him, and then I seen him in Home Depot one day, and I go, Where have you been, man? Oh, you know, this and that, him and highing. And then I heard through the grapevine, he's been calling me the Bitcoin pastor and joking about it, and he thinks it was really stupid, and that's why he left. He was like kind of the type of dude's like, I'm not gonna donate money to this church if they're gonna buy Bitcoin kind of guy. So, anyways, some situations like that, right? But it is what it is, and I don't I don't regret doing what we did and continuing to do what we do. Yeah, um, it was the right call.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, people are so uh people are so goofy when it comes to like when you face him like face to face, it's so funny. They're like, they don't mention anything, or like, hey, I'm calling you the Bitcoin pastor now, or like, or like there's they're just like there's no there's no weight behind whatever they're saying, but then they'll run away and be like, hey, I'm calling this guy the Bitcoin pastor. They're like, dude, like just own it. I'd be like, hey man, you're the Bitcoin pastor now. Like, you know, you're talking about offering Bitcoin, like whether you're with it or not, like there's no there's no reason to be like this like little, like squirmy little thing that just like runs away and like name calls in the background. People are so goofy. Uh so my next question was gonna ask you then. So, like if Bitcoin dips, right? Uh is your how are people reacting? Like, since they're all it sounds like you have a whole church of bitcoiners, which I think is like really cool, like there's a church of bitcoiners out there. Um, no one's really panicking.
SPEAKER_01It's not very big, it's not very big, but you know, it it's we are Bitcoiners.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you gotta start somewhere though. It's all good. Yeah, it's all good. Um, but they're not panicking, so no one's panicking when they're diss like, oh, we've got to buy more.
SPEAKER_01This isn't our first, this isn't our first rodeo. We we went through the bear market at 22, and that was harder because I got into Bitcoin hard in 2020, 2021, and then 22 happened, and that's where a lot of people distance themselves from me because they're like, oh, this guy, you know, he got it wrong. Because we were buying as a church, we were buying Bitcoin at 30, 40, 50, 60k, and then and then it dumps to 16.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And now the church Bitcoin's underwater, everyone who bought is underwater, and a lot of people just disappeared, but a few stuck around and a few bought the dip with me and and the church, and then you know, here we are. So, I mean, we're at 74k, but most of our buying as a church was was much lower, much lower. Oh, no. So you're in the green. Oh, yeah, yeah, we're in the green. I mean, Bitcoin has to go to like 25 for us to to to be like as a church to be like, ooh, you know, but no, no, no. We're we're far in the green uh as an organization. And uh, because we we load it up. We loaded up when everyone was calling us calling us stupid and and all that kind of stuff. So when they were calling you Pastor Coin, and you know, now those who are Bitcoiners, it's not even a thing. Like this recent dip, it's not we didn't even talk about it. It wasn't even a a mention, it was just like, look, this is Bitcoin, right? Like it is what it is. We we knew this going in. So um, I'd like to think we have a group of mature Bitcoiners. Um, there's no panic at all. Uh as a matter of fact, one guy we onboarded recently, uh, he he bought the dip on his own. And we were so proud, everybody, you know, it this didn't happen on like a Sunday morning or something. We were just hanging out, and and he says, Hey, uh, Bitcoin's down. And we're like, Yeah. And he goes, I bought some. And we all looked at him and go, we all start clapping. Well done. You bought the dip without having being told, you know, so it's it's nice. It's it's nice to see that.
SPEAKER_00That's great. That's so funny. Like, hey, you can't walk through these doors unless you got uh some cold storage, unless you got a wallet in cold storage, and you're putting Bitcoin in cold storage, you're not welcome to this church. But nobody should even, but nobody should even uh panic too when you get a dip because dude, we're at church, like it's Jesus' first year. Like, we're not even like it's not this is like second thought, right? This is like afterthought. Um that's really cool though. So um uh with your guys' church, like like how many people go to your guys' church?
SPEAKER_01Uh if everybody showed up, maybe 20, 25. No, no, that's solid.
SPEAKER_00That's solid for like Bitcoiners too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're we're small, but because of Bitcoin, uh financially, like we're doing better than I think most like for a church of like 20 people, our budget's pretty high, and I attribute a lot of that to just um obviously God's providing, but uh we save in Bitcoin, and so we're at a point where like we easily have a year or two or two, probably closer to two years um of uh of operating expenses just in Bitcoin. Like that, you know, that's just there. And if if it if we weren't saving in Bitcoin, we would be like just struggling along, right? So it's it's been the right move. We haven't touched it, and the great thing about being a church is it's tax exempt too, right? So if we ever do have to sell for something, it's like no issue there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, nice, that's awesome. And then um, I think I saw two on X. I think you're gonna be uh speaking somewhere too. Naughty's coming up here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'll be at the Midwest Bitcoin Summit in September. And I'm also planning on going to the Canadian Bitcoin conference, which is I think is October. Oh that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00And then you said you had some twins too? Yeah, I got some twins, some kids. Nice. You have a little uh uh Bitcoin stack for them on the side?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, we I mean, yeah, we do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Lose when they lose their teeth, they get Bitcoin. Oh nice. There's no toothpair, there's uh this is bit you're gonna get some Bitcoin.
SPEAKER_01Uh this is um you know, Satoshi will visit you when you're sleeping, give you some Bitcoin.
SPEAKER_00That's so funny. And then also I think you so you have a book too, right? I believe you wrote a book?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I wrote a couple books. Uh the Bible and Bitcoin, you can see it here, I think, uh on your screen. That one, and then a couple others too. But the Bible and Bitcoin's the the one I'm best known for.
SPEAKER_00Nice. I gotta check that. I definitely gotta check that out. What made you want to uh go down that path as far as like writing a book?
SPEAKER_01Well, it wasn't really the plan. Uh I got into Bitcoin and then people were asking me about it, and I did a seminar uh locally called The Christian Case for Bitcoin, and that was pretty good. We had like probably 50 people or 60 people or so turn up for that for that event, which was surprising. And I just it was like an hour-long seminar. It the Christian case for Bitcoin, pretty self-explanatory. And then I kind of sat on that for a year, like I did the seminar, and then I had the manuscript and stuff on my computer, and I just forgot about it. And then one day I thought, you know, why don't I uh why don't I take that manuscript of the seminar and just reformat it into a book? So I did. I already had it on my hard drive, and so I took the manuscript from that seminar, added maybe 30, 40% more content, and then it's a book. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's how that came about. Yeah, but mainly because people were asking, like, I just kept getting questions about Bitcoin, and I was like, I need a way to kind of try to multiply this message beyond me, because I can only talk to one person at a time. So I got the idea of the book and then yeah, published that. Didn't expect much to come of it, to be honest, but it's done very well. It's done very well, way better than I could have ever imagined.
SPEAKER_00Dude, that's great. It's so funny too. Like, um, you know, the more people that we get on the on the on the podcast, everyone has like the the different form of orange pilling people. So we just did Lindy uh McGee. She did she has a children's book, uh Bitcoin book, and then you have you have your three books. Uh, we had Jordan on here a few weeks ago. He had like the uh the denominator matters, and so he's doing it by shirt. So his whole thing is like people are asking him, like, hey, what's the denominator matters? And then boom, he can kind of insert, you know, his way. I think it's really cool how all these, you know, people are just coming up with these unique ways to uh orange pill people. Um, because we do we seem to spread the word. We just started this podcast because we're like, you know, we need to get this out. Um, and then I'm always reminded, like, man, we were so early, right? Like, you came across Bitcoin three times in your life. And sometimes when you're like on in the Twitter space, it's just an X, you're just like, nah, like, like is everyone feels like they've been doing in it forever. And we were so early, we were so early.
SPEAKER_01And it's I don't know, it's just most people still don't know, man. Like, most people you meet out here, they have no idea what Bitcoin is. I mean, I was shocked that the dude at Costco even knew what Bitcoin was. And then and then he he has the audacity to ask me, You do you have a whole coin? I said, Come on, bro, you know I can't answer that. And he goes, Yeah, you're right, you're right. Like, I'm like I'm like, I got enough to pay my groceries, that's all I'm telling you.
SPEAKER_00And then that's how you know we're there's an that's another way you know we're still early, is you were asking if you have a whole coin. Like they still don't know you don't ask people that, you know, like that's how early we are. People are going around asking if you have a whole coin. That's so funny. Nice, that's so funny. Well, um, I know uh I don't want to take too much of your time, a little bit more. Uh, but um any like final thoughts, anything you want to share uh with anyone out there?
SPEAKER_01Honestly, Bitcoin is is is wonderful. I love I love it. It's uh it's one of my um it's one of my favorite things to talk about, but at the end of the day, if you don't know Jesus Christ, then Bitcoin is useless for you. Um so I want to implore everyone, all the viewers, all the listeners, there's one thing you have to figure out in this life, and then after that, it's it kind of it's all secondary. And I tell people this all the time. I say, look, if you can't answer if you can't answer this question in the definitive, stop everything in your life till you can. Is Jesus Christ risen? Is he alive? If he's alive, go on with your life. If you don't know if he's alive, stop everything until you do. Because nothing else, nothing else will matter if you don't know the living Christ. Um, so that's what I want to leave with the with the viewers is put pause on everything until you know for certain Jesus is risen and he's risen for you. That's my message.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I love it. That's a great way to end. And we just had Easter too, so boom, bam, let's go. I love it. That's perfect. If you don't know, if Jesus is alive, stop everything and go figure it out. Uh I'm gonna tell you that he's alive though. Uh and uh he's risen.
SPEAKER_01Well, and so you can carry on, you can carry on with your life, you have the foundation to continue. But those who don't know, you have no foundation. You have to figure out Jesus Christ. Honestly, um, life is you know, the Ecclesiastes tells us that it vanity of vanity is always vanity, it's chasing after a wind. You don't know Christ, you don't know the Lord, you're just chasing after the wind. And and it's the same with Bitcoin. Like, if if you don't know the Lord and you're just chasing Bitcoin, it's just chasing the wind. Like, where are you going? What's the point? What's the point of Bitcoin? What's the point of any of this if you don't know the Lord? If you know the Lord, there's tremendous purpose, there's tremendous point to the whole thing. If you don't know the Lord, what do you what are you even doing right now? Go know the Lord and then come back and we could talk.
SPEAKER_00Yes, dude, this is so crazy, Alan. I just finished Ecclesiastics, and that was like my favorite. Like, I actually thought that was that one was my favorite. Like he always mentions in that, like you're what like everything's meaningless, right? And you're like just chasing the wind, and it's like meaningless. Everything, and then now when I walk around and I see like dumb stuff, all of them like, oh my god, meaningless. I'm like, meaningless, meaningless, like everything is just meaningless. And then I'm like, huh?
SPEAKER_01Have you ever thought about chasing the wind? Like that phrase.
SPEAKER_00It's one of the craziest it's the craziest phrase, it's the best phrase ever.
SPEAKER_01Because like what what okay? You're chasing wind, like where are you going? What do you expect? What do you expect to get? Right? Like, imagine you seeing a guy running down the street and you ask him, Hey, what are you doing, dude? And he and he goes, I'm chasing the wind. You'd be like, What?
SPEAKER_00Dude, it's the best phrase. Like, I'm like, now like those things, I'm I'm always thinking about those all the time in my life now. I don't even know if it's because I'm getting older, too. You really focus on things that matter when you get older, and you're very calculated on where you spend your time, your money, um, for me at least, you know. And so when I think about that, I'm like, dude, chasing the wind. Chasing the wind, meaningless. Like everything is meaningless. I swear. Everything that I see now, that's all I think about. And that is so funny that you brought that up because I I just finished that whole uh that whole chapter, everything about it. Like, oh my gosh, like so good. I think and chasing the wind, man. I I don't know what it is, but like people on X that we talk to, chasing the wind. They are Caspo chasing the wind, altcoins chasing the wind.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of wind chasing, a lot of wind chasing, and I I kind of find myself chasing some wind sometimes too, and having to check myself and say, hey man, what are you doing? You're chasing the wind. Stop wasting time with that stuff.
SPEAKER_00So that's so good. That and I think that even to have the the awareness of that too for yourself, like, oh man, okay, I need to get back on track. Like, that's huge too. Some people don't have have zero awareness, they'll just keep going and keep going and keep going. Um, but this has been awesome. Uh, if you don't mind sharing with people uh where they can find you on uh um yeah, so if you want to chase some wind, we can go to X.
SPEAKER_01Uh you can find me there at Pastor Coin. Uh recently, kind of getting more into YouTube, trying. I was consistent for a bit, then I got sick and missed a week, so I gotta get back on the on the on the horse with YouTube. You can find me on YouTube at Jesus Maximalist. Okay. And yeah, my website, the Bible and Bitcoin.com, is where you can find all my stuff. You can get all my books on Amazon as well. Nice, awesome. And what were the name of your books too?
SPEAKER_00Uh just in case people that are listening.
SPEAKER_01We got sorry. We got the Bible and Bitcoin, which is about the Bible and Bitcoin. Then this one here is Render to God. This is about taxes, what the Bible says about taxes. Highly recommend this one. And then Truth and Code is about monetary history and Christianity and Bitcoin all mixed into one book. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Nice. And speaking about books right now, too. Also, Alan, have you read uh Thank God uh for Bitcoin? Yes, I have read, yeah. That's a great book. That's a great uh uh that was actually one of my favorite first Bitcoin books, and that's a great book. I love it.
SPEAKER_01Nice, nice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it's good.
SPEAKER_01Jordan, who wrote that book, also did the forward for my book as well.
SPEAKER_00Oh, awesome, awesome. Yeah, I'll definitely check it out. I'm always trying to like find find new books, support people, support Bitcoiners. So I'll definitely check it out and uh post it once I get it. Uh thanks again, uh Alan. I really appreciate you carving out time and just being so flexible uh with us, just with the time, the time difference. And so thanks again.
SPEAKER_01All right, cool, thanks.
SPEAKER_00All right, thanks, Alan. I appreciate it.