The Truth About Bitcoin in El Salvador | Pamela Posada

 What is it really like to live in the world's first Bitcoin country?

In this episode of To The Moon with the Lunas, we sit down with Pamela Posada to discuss the reality of Bitcoin adoption in El Salvador. Pamela shares her firsthand experience growing up in El Salvador, how Bitcoin has impacted daily life, what locals think about the country's Bitcoin journey, and how the media's portrayal compares to what's happening on the ground.

We also explore the opportunities, challenges, and future of the nation that made history by adopting Bitcoin as legal tender. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If you say humble, you can find answers wherever you go because at the end you have to understand that you have to unlearn some things that you believe in your in your life. So at the end it's just a process to unlearn what you already knew and understand that sometimes it can be a little bit scary to be humble to understand you don't know sometimes you don't know everything. So yeah, in the end, I would say that just stay curious and understand that sometimes you have to unlearn what you believe.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Yeah, that's really good because everything is a lie once you understand Bitcoin. So you have to unlearn everything that you know. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah, I mean, for example, I start with Bitcoin and then I get to exercise, then I get to help, then I get to cooking. And it's just a process to understand if your government is lying to you in one thing. Why is no lying in everything, right? Like just helping to get to the point to do your own conclusions.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

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SPEAKER_01 1:22

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SPEAKER_02 1:40

Hi everybody, welcome back to To the Moon with the Lunas podcast. Today's Bitcoin price is sitting around 62,500. Today we're joined by Pamela Posada, a Salvadorian Bitcoiner, digital nomad, and a founder of Sisters of Satoshi, a community dedicated to helping bring more women into Bitcoin across Latin America. Let's go. Pamela also works behind the scenes with Bitcoin creators and media companies, helping them grow their audiences through uh better content strategies, titles, and thumbnails. Today we'll talk about her Bitcoin journey and what she's witnessed firsthand in El Salvador, her work in Bitcoin media, and where she's been, where she sees Bitcoin heading in the future. Pamela, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Uh thank you so much for having me. And I appreciate the lovely words about me, myself. To be honest, sometimes it's really nice to hear to somebody else, right? Because if you use it for yourself, it's gonna look weird. But yeah, I really appreciated the invite and it's a pleasure to meet you, but both of you.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yes, we're so excited to have you. And it's always nice to hear from a female in the Bitcoin space because um oftentimes we see a lot of men, you know, working in this space. And um, it's nice for me who kind of joined uh Bitcoin later on to kind of see how women are navigating this as well. So I'm excited for this conversation and just to learn more about you. Um, but yeah, just to go on and dive in, um, how did you first discover Bitcoin and what kind of made it click for you?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Well, the first time that I listened about Bitcoin was in 2021 when the El Salvador making legal tender. And that time, really I didn't understand Bitcoin, I didn't get to Bitcoin. I just hear that, oh, El Salvador is gonna adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender. It was like, why? I mean, what? What does this mean, right? How is it gonna affect me? At that time, I was working in my fiat job. I graduated as a fashion designer, so I was working in the industry for almost five years. And I just hear it, but it really didn't click to me. In El Salvador, we have many like opportunities or advantages in comparison with other countries that, for example, Bitcoin is prohibited. Right? In El Salvador in that time, people really tried to push to get to more Salvadorians get to Bitcoin. We have our first um wallet that it was Chivo wallet, that was just specific for Salvadorians to use it like an ATM to withdraw money. For example, we our currency is the US dollar. So you can do the exchange, for example, let's say Bitcoin, and then you can uh exchange for US dollar, and then you can withdraw in the Chivo ATM, that it was all part of the government to incentivize it. And at the beginning, every Salvadorian, just for your ID, you when you enter to this wallet, you're gonna receive $30 of Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Well, in that time it was a similar price, like right now, like a 65k, pretty much, something like that. So people are always complaining about it. Like there are a lot of it was a lot of news and the media say, oh, Salvador adopting the worst time for Bitcoin, and because those $30 in Bitcoin, it was like a $25, you know, it was always volatile. So many Salvadorians, what they do was just withdraw, withdraw that money. And you have to understand also Salvador is a poor country. So many people live for a daily day, uh daily basis. It's like those five dollars, the extra five dollars they didn't have, they use them for something. So at the end, those many of us we didn't understand about what it was Bitcoin, and many others, for example, uh, because to withdraw that money, you have to first send it to somebody because it was like kind of not allowed for the app to just withdraw if you receive it, you have to send it to somebody, that person has to withdraw it for you or send it to you back. So many people get a scam. Like they say, I have $20 in cash right now. Can you send me the Bitcoin and I'm gonna give you $20? Even if it was $30 in Bitcoin. So yeah, many people just send the money to somebody or just go to do a big line just to wait. The first week at the ATM, it was a big line, so people just withdraw the money. So yeah, at the end, it was like it was a really good idea, but really bad. It's execution at the end, you know, when you are included. Um, in this case, citizens that never understand not only Bitcoin, it's we are also one of the countries with not many people have bank accounts. So yeah, it's just get to that point to see money as digital. It's difficult for Salvadorians. Even right now, there are many Salvadorians that they only accept cash. For example, if you go to a little grocery store in your and your village, that person probably not gonna accept car. It's just gonna accept cash. So yeah, it's just uh it was a little bit misconception about it, the what it was Bitcoin. And to me, in that time, as I say, I didn't even withdraw the money, I didn't even remove the money, I just leave it in my wallet from the El Salvadorian wallet. And then a year after I was trying to improve my English. So I decided to go to a beach, like a Bitcoin beach, to start to talk to more uh gringos just to improve my language. And every many there that was Bitcoiners how that's how they get me orange pills, like, oh yes, this thing about Bitcoin would come for a sabbler because it's a Bitcoin legal tender, it's like and what is Bitcoin, right? What is Bitcoin so important or what is the technology behind, right? So uh the what they really catch me about Bitcoin was this freedom technology that it must give you to you the power of sovereignty and not just some financial sovereignty that also it's just the idea to you can control your time with it because right now if our money money is really devaluated, it's just in time, you're everything that you're trying to build is nothing. You cannot purchase the same things that you can do it like five years ago. The things are just increasing. So to me, the idea that have a really limited amount of Bitcoin, and at the end is if we have some something like infinity money, at the end, yes, one of the people that really uh suffer about those consequences are us, the people that really live in the daily basis. So yeah, at the end it was like just a little small thing that really catched me, and it was like, I really want to get involved with this, but how? How can I get Bitcoin? Because I was poor, so I was like, how can well buy Bitcoin? So I decided to start to offer services to Air Bitcoin. So they started offering services to Bitcoiners that visit in El Salvador. Many of them it was just content creation. I didn't have any idea about what is uh video editing, for example, because it was just different to my career, but I didn't really want to get more Bitcoin and get air about air in Bitcoin. So yeah, at the end it was like just uh really interesting process because I was a newbie. I didn't have any idea what is Bitcoin, what is 21 million or volatile, what all the all the things that you hear about behind the technology is like how what about what is mining, right? So at the end, when I have to edit things that didn't understand, what that was that was my university in that in that regard, because I have to learn as a new bit what that means, and then to try to make that look clear for somebody who doesn't understand Bitcoin because that's another thing about content creation. Many of the content right now is really focused for people that are really into Bitcoin already. So yeah, that's helped me a lot to understand the beginning for what is Bitcoin and get me to the point to start working with Bitcoiners and content creation.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Yeah, well, that's amazing, Pam. I think like the fact that you were curious um to like, hey, let me go to the Bitcoin beach, hey, let me figure this out. Hey, what is it going on? Especially when your country just flipped everything upside down on you, right? You're like legal tender, long lines, like everyone's like, what is this? What's going on? But instead of like fighting against it, like, okay, well, let me let me adopt it, let me let me figure this out, let me see what it's all about. Um, and I think that's what's very hard for people, like that change. Change is so hard. And so being able to be open-minded and curious, I think being curious is will is such a game changer in today's uh life because um, you know, it'll open doors for you. And so I think that's amazing that you did that. And going to like learning it, right? Editing it, you know, and you're like, whoa, you're like, wait, what is this? And then you like go and look it up, right? And so, which is really cool because you're seeing it and then you're learning it, and then you're like deep diving, and it's almost like it reminds me of like when I read a book and I see a big word that I don't know, I'm like, uh, let me go and like look it up, right? And then now you know, you're like, oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Um, so real quick, so in 2021 they did this, and now we're fast forward to 2026. Are things coming, are things getting more progressive, uh like better? Like, are people adopting it, or is it still uh still like a resistance against this?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Well, it's 50-50, I would say, because for example, it's a kind of progress in the regard that most people are now pointing El Salvador in a map. They know where it's in El Salvador now. Five, ten years ago, nobody knows where it was in El Salvador, or even if they know, they only know for something bad news. And for Salvadorians, also in for example, more tourism also increases more uh more money coming into El Salvador, helps to grow more communities, helps to increase uh the money, right? So it really helps a lot. But at the same time, the ones are really getting an advantage about, for example, Bitcoin, at the end they're not the Salvadorians. They really don't get to Salvadorians, they get more to the Bitcoiners who really are visiting El Salvador that at the end they can spend Bitcoin. That's really one of the uh once you're left in El Salvador, it's like, oh, I would like to spend Bitcoin and it's really really difficult to find a place in your city or in your country to spend Bitcoin. I was in Albania just two weeks ago, and it's one of the places I believe they need Bitcoin, but it's still the same idea, right? They don't understand what is Bitcoin, or yeah, the end is like it's difficult to find places that you can spend Bitcoin. So it's uh I would say it's a 50-50. There are some Salvadorians because I have a few Salvadorians that are my friends that right now they're my friends that also get to Bitcoin for similar times than me, like three years ago. And also, for example, my family, my family is fully orange pill. Maybe they're not like fully Bitcoiners like me that are really into this, but they're at least they're trying to save in Bitcoin because they see what it means means about the money supply, they understand what is the problem with money, and some subadarians don't understand the problem. Well, many of us we don't understand what is the problem around, but yes, Bitcoin at the end is just get to the person in the way that can understand. And that's what that's I would say is like a 50-50 about it.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Yeah. I was I I think it's awesome though, because you you forget about the people who are just learning, right? Who are just trying to understand it. And when you're in a um in a I guess a survival state of mind, it's hard to learn something new. We've always talked about this because we're trying to earn money, we're trying to go, go, go, go, go. And when you you just are so tired, you can't learn something new, right? And and you know, you can, but it's often challenging. And so it took someone like you to kind of show, like, hey, I had to learn this, I had to, you know, put myself out there, I had to go and become in like immerse myself so that I could understand it better. I think that's really eye-opening, especially for other Salvadorians who are watching you, you know, and going, Oh, if she could do it, maybe I can do it too. And I think that's really helpful to see and in your space as well.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Yeah, well, people are like, I gotta eat. And you're talking about like, no, you gotta like save in this new money, and they're like, What? Like, no, I gotta eat. Um, and yeah, they're perfect pricey.

SPEAKER_04 14:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

And even with like even in America, like if we even go by America, like everybody is like, you talk about Bitcoin and they're like, look at you like you're speaking Chinese or like you're in a pyramid scheme or it's a scam. I would probably even say, uh, but El Salvador, they're 50-50. We're like 1090, like no one knows what it feels like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yeah, like well, the adoption of Salvador is still very low. It's the adoption in percent of the population is like 10%. So it's also very low and compared with other countries. We're still it's possible to have a Bitcoin standard living in El Salvador. But yeah, for example, for in San Salvador, maybe it's more easier to some Salvadorians understand this bubble because they have, for example, access to bank accounts, they understand what is the internet, they have laptops, they uh uh learn. I mean, they are just a different we have in El Salvador different others uh gaps in technology. Some people they don't even have access to a phone, for example, or even if they have access to the phone, they really don't know how to use it. They're just watching social media. So it's like at the end, I also believe it's about you creating your own opportunities. Because at the end, as you say, it's open, it's also about the open mind of to learn something even if you don't have the time, even if you're gonna sacrifice maybe hours of sleep just to do go to a point that you feel like no return.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Mm-hmm. For sure, for sure. I think that's super uh just helpful for people to hear because yeah, we can we can talk ourselves into something and we could tuck ourselves out of something really fast. I've noticed that too. Um, but yeah, I I'm curious too. What's something you've personally witnessed that most people maybe outside of El Salvador um you know would never see uh like on the headlines in El Salvador?

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Well, for example, one thing that every people that when I'm upside with El Salvador, they always say, Oh yeah, you can do a leaving with Bitcoin. It's like yes and no, because there are some restrictions, because at the end right now, Bitcoin is not anymore anymore like legal tender. It's meaning that it's not prohibited, but of course it's like a few places are places that you can spend Bitcoin. Maybe, for example, Starbucks, yes, you can go to Starbucks and pay with Bitcoin, but maybe if you want to go to a different coffee shop, it's probably yes or probably not. It's like people really believe that you every store uh that you see in El Salvador is possible to spend Bitcoin. That's pretty much not true. And then it's a few spots we have a lot of Bitcoin communities around El Salvador, but yes, even in El Center, there are some uh stores that really don't accept Bitcoin or they really don't accept a car. So yes, at the end, it's like you can well, you can check the maps because at the end it's a Bitcoin uh map to say the merchants that accept Bitcoin, but yeah, it's not like completely true that you're gonna do a life with Bitcoin and everyone accept Bitcoin because that's not true.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Yeah, yeah, that's really good because I get the perception living out in the US, like, oh El Salvador, Bitcoin country. They're like really adopting it's you know, like you said, now we're going into year five, right? And so you get this perception where like everyone everyone's using Bitcoin and there's a Bitcoin beach, and you know, like they're they're they're presidents pro Bitcoin. So you do get this like misconception, it sounds like, because your boots on the ground. So I'm so glad I get to hear from you who like is in the streets right there. Um so yeah, no, I really appreciate this feedback because it's really interesting. A lot of people got that uh perspective of hey, El Salvador is like Bitcoin country, like, and we all need to kind of like look over there. Uh so that's really interesting. That's that's I I like that you shared that with us. And so, really quick, what inspired you creating Sisters of Satoshi? Please break this down for us.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Okay, that's a funny story because I was not looking forward to a community. So I get back last year in November, like we have uh in November and El Salvador pretty much like conference time before the conference, and there we have many Bitcoin meetups in El Salvador. Uh so that's one of the things that maybe you can also experience, uh, met another people that are really in your same interest. So I went to a Bitcoin meetup and I was just me and other two women in the Bitcoin meetup was like, oh, we start talking to each other, and it was like, oh yeah, we should catch up, do some things together. Because one it was uh uh German woman, another one was another Salvadorian that now is one of my friends, and the other was me. It was like, oh yeah, we should do something together, like you like a friend, right? Because yeah, they're it's like same interest. Maybe we can get to like a woman, we can get catch up now to each other very well. So we started to do we did a group chat on WhatsApp to catch up with the three of us because it's like just separate uh chats is just too difficult. So we did a group chat together, and then we start to go to different other meetups, and it was like, Oh yeah, you're gonna come to this meetup, you're gonna go to this meetup, we should do something upside up uh next week. And then we start to met another uh women, female Bitcoiners that they're also like kind of um lonely. So we decided, well, we can do something together as a f as a woman, right? So they're start to increase the the group uh in the in our group chat, and then we saw that it was uh a really interesting opportunity to get to more Salvadorians because um as I say, it's like even if there are a few Salvadorians into Bitcoin, it's less female Salvadorians. So it was like of course it's it's just a time to help them to understand, and at the end it's like it's better if you are another local to me to try to connect with this person because you know as as for example, if you live in the US, I never live in the US, so for so I don't know, I don't know how to connect for with another American, but I know really how to connect with Salvadorians, Latin America, because at the end it's like we have some similarities, yeah. And that's how we start with Sister of Satoshi. We try to get to more Salvadorians into Bitcoin and also help to the international community that go to El Salvador to help to inspire them. Because as you say, it's like it's very important uh get to another women's perspective because at the end it's like the role models. For example, a man, if I asked to somebody, uh, what is your role model? He's gonna mention another man. And it's just normal for them. It's it's really weird that somebody's gonna mention a woman. So it's the same for women, they really need to get to another example that can be another woman to understand. So that's how we get to sister of Satoshi to help the to help the international community to join to the Salvadorian community community. It's a really good uh time to just connect, to understand perspectives, to learn from each other. And that's how we get to uh sister of Satoshi, and then we decide to create content in Spanish to get to more Salvadorians because sometimes when we start to do the meetups, it was a problem that oh women in Bitcoin. It's like but what does it mean women in Bitcoin?

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

What I want what I wanna see there's gonna try to sell me something it's so it for Salvadorans can be some scary to say women in Bitcoin if they don't understand Bitcoin. So we start to create uh start to create content educational content about Bitcoin really focus in Spanish speaking and Spanish content to help them to understand not just Bitcoin it's about finances it's about money it's about uh what we think it's about savings oh things that we really uh get to the point and then you they can discover Bitcoin how Bitcoin can be an answer to these problems.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

So that's how we start to get more women not only in El Salvador but also in Latin America then it's a gap that we can cover because yes exist exists right now exists a lot of Spanish content and the same English content but sometimes it's too technical and for a woman who for example technology is not our best friend not many women like technology and then we have to talk about money so there are two things that most um some some women really don't like so it's just a process to get to more women yeah so good that's really good Pam because those are two big hurdles right internet and money like already people don't want to talk about money whatever place you're at in the world like it's a very sensitive topic right yeah yeah taboo yeah and but we it's something that we want to normalize to people like you have to talk about money like that's the that's the layer that's broken and why we're all where we're at and we're all in this little wheel um and I just want to uh backpedal real quick and unpack some stuff that you shared so that's cool that so you went to this big home meeting this Bitcoin meetup and then there was two other girls like so when you went to this um how many people total like were were there I know because you said there was two girls so how many people total were at this meetup?

SPEAKER_00 23:51

For example when it's a small meetup it's around like 20 people so it's pretty yes it's pretty big and sometimes when we have more uh other events they can be hundred Bitcoiners there's sometimes we have really big uh meetups with more than 100 person and then we have conference that really it's a really big community in El Salvador about Bitcoiners and I only experienced that also in Paraguay which also surprised me outside of El Salvador Paraguay they really have a really big Bitcoin community there that is just Bitcoin only. It's one of the places we really not you're not gonna care about somebody with crypto or some other uh shitcoin around but yes it's in that time I was we went to a meetup that was another 20 people one of them it was my brother because as I said my brother and my family is fully orange people and my other my little brother is fully bitcoiner as as me so we always want to meetups together. So yeah we I met uh the two women in that time and right now we have in the group chat we have around 20 sorry we have around 120 women in the group chat that really that's amazing oh my gosh incredible yes for we women in Bitcoin it's a really big problem of course sometimes our meetups are not like a hundred people but yes it's just to get to that point that more women understand this point they can be they can help to the community they can sometimes talk about whatever is necessary in the group chat so yeah that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah I think you kind of you know I gosh it's such a it's so awesome that you're creating this space for women. And I love that you're creating content in Spanish because I feel like not only in you know Latin America but even here in America we have obviously Mexico's close to our border and we have a lot of people who speak Spanish you know and so it's intimidating um when you don't know the language and you don't know um these big words that are happening and then when you can relate to someone in their own language it's like a whole barrier is dropped off you know I really feel like it changes everything. Even here when you speak to someone in Spanish and you know that they speak Spanish it it makes them feel at peace and like you know oh I feel comfortable now you know so um yeah we we I definitely have seen that in in person and and it does it definitely helps a lot.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

And um why do you think that there's still so many women that you know there's not as many women in Bitcoin in general whether it's in Latin America or just in that adoption of women what do you feel that is well it's it's interesting because for example if you go to a conference for example right now it was one in Las Vegas I guess you're gonna see women during the conference maybe a lot of women but the problem is that they're really just for example uh the girlfriend or the wife of somebody it's not like really they're interested about it. And sometimes one time I get to one woman that she told me like oh I really don't have Bitcoin but my husband has Bitcoin it's like yeah I mean this is not your Bitcoin at the end if you don't have your kids it's not your Bitcoin right so it's like yes they understand maybe what is Bitcoin but they don't want to have the responsibility of what is Bitcoin. So I will say it's the reason there are not many women in Bitcoin is because uh sometimes it's a lot of misconceptions. There are a lot of for example content or things that are close related of catch the men's eyes that no women really interested because at the end we have to speak with women and the way that she understands. But if for example even Natalie Brunel she's a big podcaster but even in her audience it's not uh the majority of her audience is not female. At the end the majority people are watching content in Bitcoin the majority are men so maybe it's about what they're we are what we are trying to sell to the women I mean at the end is if I want to talk to a woman about mining maybe it's not something that is our interest at the end maybe we have to get to more in the point to be more realistic to something that really catches her attention. And right now maybe that's I what I see like in the gap right now. There are a few women that are really into the maybe the middle like oh yeah my husband my uh my boyfriend has Bitcoin but I really don't care because it's my uh in internet money some other is like uh this is too complicated at the end it's like we make Bitcoin look so complicated and that's another problem with men trying to orange pin women and that's why they're getting started it's like if you try to speak with a woman and say oh yes they're just 21 million look at the hash rate it's like yes in the end we have to do more digestible with the content for women or some that's why I try to say that maybe with another woman it's easier to connect because women are also more emotional. Women are the ones that make a decision with based off their feelings. So if we get to Bitcoin the point that says okay what are your savings uh how is your bank account going do you feel it's growing because not many women are even save money because they're consuming. There are a lot of consuming in the modern society just for women for example you have to get to another point maybe another perspective not something to technology because at the end it's like they don't want to feel that for example if you're a man you you don't have to get too superior with their topics when there's someone like new they're trying to learn about it. And a specific women can feel scary. So yeah at the end it's like just more about how we really talk to them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

If you're enjoying this episode make sure to like and subscribe it helps us reach more people and continue bringing you great guests. Now let's get back to the show.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Absolutely and it's funny because um I was actually that woman that you're talking about who was like what are you talking like he brought this to me you know he was he was really navigating investing and all of that right it could it was it within the whole digital currency space. And we had just had like two kids in a row. So I was like I don't know what you're talking about right now. So he would talk to me and you know I'm I'm glad he included me because that also helps right when you're a partner and you just want to know what's going on. But yeah I was definitely the person who was trying to figure out what are you talking about? You know like this these words that you're using are just like beyond my uh capacity of understanding because some of these words that are used in Bitcoin you're like I need a dictionary for this word you know I need to be able to see what you're talking about because there's so many acronyms and you know things that aren't in our normal vocabulary. And so yeah I definitely really understand why you kind of have seen that perspective because I was that person. And then once we things settled down in our lives I was like okay I really want to understand what you're doing because we're a team we're gonna be doing this together. And we obviously I know you're growing you're trying to grow our family and put us in a great position. So I need to understand this. And so when we were having these conversations that's kind of why we wanted to have you know other conversations with other Bitcoiners so that way we could I could learn even more. So it's been really eye-opening um to see different perspectives and I love that you've created a space that feels safe for women a space that allows women to feel like oh this isn't that hard you know like this isn't really challenging. It's just a re um wiring of our brains a little bit about the the system that we grew up in, you know? So I love that you're you're doing that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Yeah for example it's sorry it's very important what you say that create uh a space that women can feel uh free to ask questions because at the end it's of course nobody wants to feel like ignorant but that's what you make you humble. I mean you have to ask the obvious questions sometimes and that's important to make them feel comfortable to to just get to the point that maybe I'm not gonna tell you ah just you should buy Bitcoin tomorrow but it's like just to get to the point at the end you have to learn in your own mind. It's not like a process that you have to I cannot force the women to learn at the way that I learn but I also believe that for example right now just the finance literacy it's very low in comparison with men. And it's also because for example a men when they're in the 20s there really this emotion to get to invest in is excited for women it's not that way for women can get a little bit more stressed and we are living already in a society that women are more stressed just for a daily basis. So yeah it's just get an extra stress to them.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

So yes it's a lot of things are really even if not in just in crypto for example crypto holders that just 7% are women and yeah we are talking about the uh finances not many women are into finance and not in the perspective that you have to be an economist but you have to understand where is your money going when you're spending or how you're save money yeah absolutely yeah because um you know like you said like we have to ask the basic questions right like what is money like that is such a great question like you know and people don't want to feel stupid and they don't want to be like oh it's this right like you know because that's all how that's how we grew up. Yeah but like we all need to take a step back. It doesn't matter even if you're like a financial advisor or if you're like an economist or even a president like you have to be like what is money? Yeah uh because a lot of people do not know what money is and um that's like question number one. And then also when it comes to you know when you mention that there's a bunch of uh like there's some girls that go to women that go to these Bitcoin conferences oh I'm just a girlfriend and you know he's like I I think that's like you they need to step up because what if something happens to your husband or your uh if you're you know significant other and you guys have been together for a while and the guy has Bitcoin you guys been saving together like no we need you guys need to have like a a little plan B like a backup if something were to happen. So I think that's very important. And then even when it goes to what you were chatting about with Natalie Brunel I do think you're right a lot of her uh audience is men but I do think like she's doing a great job paving a way for women as well yeah um you know with her book that came out Bitcoin is for everyone and women were gonna gravitate more to another woman Bitcoiner than they would a man but um no all of these are great points and going to your content that you put out on Twitter with Sisters of Satoshi in Spanish I love it because this is where where I wanted to have this uh interview you because I'll be scrolling and then you're like in Spanish you're like like with passion you're just I'm like I'm like she is yelling at me and I love it like she's like I know she's saying some great Bitcoin content I don't understand but I don't understand this and I I like man I love it I need we need to get her on here I need her to yell at me in in English of what she's saying in Spanish I I I love the passion that you have Pam and I was like and I'm an energy person like I love like people have great energy like she is it's so much great energy but I don't know what she's saying right now it's a good learning that's what I'm I need to learn it I need to learn this I need to figure it out oh my gosh so good well you've talked about a little bit about like the digital nomad life and and Bitcoin's future um how has Bitcoin enabled you to have that digital nomad lifestyle well that was interesting because uh when I left the first time in Salvador I went to Colombia and really I didn't have like I was a start to get earning Bitcoin so my bank account was really useless uh it was a Salvadoran bank account it was really useless and I received payments in Bitcoin and at the beginning it was really difficult to for example convert that Bitcoin in in and fiat but at the end works for me and right now just for real Salvadorians there are really different tools already available just for Salvadorians we have for example um these Bitcoin cards that they're like debit cards that at the end is like another uh wallet you can just exchange put your money there and convert your Bitcoin and then you can spend in like a normal Pisa Mastercard so yeah that's how I start to travel because I have the possibility to receive money on Bitcoin and when I was trying for example it was not my first time to try to be a freelancer but for example PayPal doesn't work in El Salvador.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

It's it's really useless to use PayPal I don't know if it's still available for in El Salvador because first it's a lot of fees to to just withdraw that put that money in the somehow in an account that you can withdraw or you can use in a car it's really difficult and at the end it's a lot of fees that you have to pay a metal to get pay for whatever country that I am it's just Bitcoin. It's just possible with Bitcoin right now many of the people that work right now they pay me in Bitcoin and it's too easy for me to receive it. For Salvadoran if I want to get pay for someone in America using my Salvadoran bank account it's uh it's a very difficult process. Even the Salvadoran technology in the bank it's just too complicated. So there's really difficult to make to be for example digital normal with your normal account. So yeah Bitcoin gave me to be that in interesting tool that gave me the power to use Bitcoin at the same time I've had to well sell it somehow because yes I have to live somehow right so at the end it's like yes it's just that uh that's how I get to digital normal because it was able it was impossible for me to travel at the same time I can withdraw the money and be converted in fiat that in Salvadoran and just to be a Salvadoran is kind of difficult. Of course in the U have hundreds of ways to just receive money in some way but to receive the money in Latin America it's it's right now there are a few other tools that are starting but uh just five years uh three years ago it was really difficult. Five years ago I started to use PayPal and it was really a mess. It was impossible to withdraw in El Salvador. So I only can spend and I only can spend in online uh websites so it was like I my idea was to save money but if I can have to respond then it's like difficult.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

So yeah and then it's uh how Bitcoin gets to really important in my life yeah that's great um and sh just to add on to that so it's you I know you share it's still difficult for you know people in Latin America in El Salvador to receive Bitcoin and but El Salvador is really like you know Bitcoin you know they what we hear Bitcoin country Bitcoin country legal tender like it's the future so how does how does El Salvador make things a little bit easier for them to start accepting it a little bit more if it's still difficult?

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Well what would you say would like yeah how like helped adopt that and make things a little bit more streamlined for example guys uh right now that the El Salvador is uh more like Bitcoin friendly there are a lot of companies that just Bitcoin companies that get to El Salvador to make their businesses they receive a few benefits like for big technology they don't have to pay they have like zero they don't have to pay like zero taxes and the few a number I don't remember if the first year. But yeah they give those uh those solutions for different other companies to get to El Salvador and then if there are Bitcoin companies they're uh pretty much they can uh make a product and make able to El Salvador for example this uh car that I started using right now it's a few other cars in El Salvador that you can asset Bitcoin and of course I understand El Salvador is really basic you have to uh for example you have to sell sometimes it's a really inter it's a really easy way to do it. You don't have to go to the bank to do those things. It's just available in your phone. Other thing that it's really important to get to more Salvadorians is for example we are a country that we I think the 40% of our um the money coming in is from the remittances from the US so we have a a million Salvadorians living in the US that they send money for for example Western union to El Salvador but it's too expensive at the end you don't receive the money that you have to pay that you really pay for that and sometimes you pay to send it and you pay to withdraw it. So it's not really really it's not really an advantage anymore. And I understand like with this uh from at the beginning of the year something about the tariff I understand that it was affecting the remittances right uh piece but at the end it's like if you can use Bitcoin and you already have Bitcoin ETMs to withdraw that money it's just easier and simple to use it. But yeah it's like how you can connect with the Salvadorians is just two tools or things that you can really do in the daily basis and what they can do in daily basis is like save money and also spend money because at the end it's like yes they we are a population that really uh for example our minimum salary is like four hundred dollars so yeah if you can save five dollars or you can spend five dollars that it was from Bitcoin it's just a way also uh we have a different communities Bitcoin circular economies that you cannot even you don't have to withdraw in US dollars you can just spend them in something that maybe you need at the end is to me what I see I see money right now in a different perspective of uh value for value. So to me if Bitcoin is too valuable now I really care about what I'm spending or how the money is going and that's also really good for me when I start to be digital normal because I start to understand that as a woman I don't need like hundred dresses. I mean I only have one thing and at the end if I travel around 100 dresses to me is useless. It's too much weight in my so it's like to that way to get less materialistic and more women are more materialistic for example I know women there is have like 40 pairs of shoes I don't know if I can have 40 pairs of shoes but even right now that I can stay in a place for more than I don't know for six months or a year I don't really get to the point to spend that money things that are really not valuable for me because in the end I have to sell Bitcoin for those things are really important or I really prefer to save that money right right that's really good.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

No that's really good um sounds like you understand what money is um going back to with El Salvador right so I still think and let me I would love to hear your perspective I still think the fact that you guys made it legal tender it's still you know in a it sounds like in the adoption phase like there's still a lot of hurdles to overcome in El Salvador. I still think you guys are still leading and paving the way the fact that um you guys even talk about it and people even just they connect yeah El Salvador and Bitcoin together. How far ahead do you think well okay well like people will start coming around to this and maybe it'll be a lot more fluid and things will be a lot more streamlined. When it comes to El Salvador and Bitcoin, or do you still think that kinda ways away?

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Well, I will say that the adoption is growing in El Salvador and compared like just two uh four years ago that it was really not adoptive for many Salvadorians. But I will I really expect that how the things are going because even El Salvador is still in the in the eyes of many. At the same way, I think that many Salvadorians can understand what is the advantage about it. I mean you can do uh really advantages in your in your country, that maybe 10 years ago you many Salvadorans decide to leave El Salvador because it was impossible to live, it was impossible to have an opportunity to grow in your in your in your own land in your homeland country. But I would say that uh in ten years I just expect that more Salvadorans understand what is Bitcoin, not just in the perspective that um for uh for tourists it's also in the perspective of what it you're saving. If we know that their money is really devaluated because that's some another thing, uh maybe because we are with the uh US dollar, we don't see the devaluation of money and the same that other countries like they have pesos or other um pesos or guaranese or uh quetzales, there are different other currencies that really they have really bad um against inflation. But I think that the Salvadorians can have a really opportunity to make this uh for longer for last for a few more years, or at least whatever people want, because the society right now is increasing in the in the way that Salvador is not just in Bitcoin, it's also in technology, it's also in the AI. Right now we have many other uh for the government they're trying to push more about what is money to understand for kids in the school. Uh when I was in the school, I didn't receive that kind of classes and I would like it. So at the end, it's like there are many others, not just for the government, that's also another organization that gets the eyes into El Salvador that try to make them just a different country. I mean, um I don't say that we are gonna be maybe like a first-world country, but maybe we are in the path to get better in comparison with other Latin American countries as uh right now we are doing in compared with Central America. And the begin uh 10 years ago, people really preferred to go to Costa Rica because it was safe. But it's the same as El Salvador, it's really similar. Right now, as El Salvador, I don't need to go to Costa Rica to find opportunities. When El Salvador right now is safe, it's easier to access. There are a lot of uh information about it, there are a lot of people trying to get to El Salvador, do do things for Salvadorians to increase the economy. At the end, it's like, yes, if you want to see an open window, you can have one. I don't know if that answered your question. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that was really good. Yeah, that's great. And it's great to see um the optimism, right? I feel like that's what Bitcoin creates. It does create optimism more than that, you know, and it's intimidating, but there's a lot more hope in that in Bitcoin, right? There's a lot more opportunity and there's a lot more safety. And I loved kind of hearing how you travel and you can easily use that money. And I think that's sometimes really helpful for people to hear because um, yeah, it's really hard to like, you know, change your, you know, exchange your money and all of that when you're traveling. But when you have Bitcoin, it's keeping its value and you can then use it wherever you are, right? And it's you know, it's just it's just really cool to um to see it being utilized and I it's it's exciting. I'm I'm curious now what kind of excites you? You kind of you know mentioned about over the next 10 years in in El Salvador, but in general, what excites you about Bitcoin over the next you know decade in your life?

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Well, I think what excited me about uh Bitcoin in the next decade, in my perspective, and uh well nobody gave me the mission or they give me the job, but really trying to get more women in Bitcoin because they really believe that if we get more with women in Bitcoin can increase adoption drastically. Why? Because I think women are the ones that are really empathic, women are the ones that create communities, women are the ones that keep the houses together, keep the house together. So really women can connect in a different perspective than men really maybe cannot. It's just it's just different uh characteristics, the characteristic that we have as uh uh men and women. But yeah, I feel that if we can increase the adoption with women, it just can increase the adoption with everyone else because women women are the reason why they're best sellers. Because they're gonna sell better than men. So I think that maybe that's why right now our adoption is a little bit lower. Can be that reason, but I feel that if we can increase the amount of women in the space can help a lot to increase Bitcoin communities, do circle economies, do a small thing in your own town. You don't have to be an unsabler to start to create your uh Bitcoin uh meetup or whatever. It's just just an amount of perspective of how women can really empathize with others, not just with women, but yes, women are the end, they're the ones that really warn to others. So yeah, I would say that in 10 years, if we can get to more women, I really I believe that in 10 years we can have a better adoption worldwide.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

Yeah, I love that. That was really good, Pam. I really like that. Um, to wrap things up here, I'd always like to end with this question. Any advice that you would give to somebody who's first entering and getting their feet wet into the Bitcoin space. Um what what do you have for them?

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Well, I think that if you stay humble, you can find answers wherever you go. Because at the end you have to understand that you have to unlearn some things that you believe in your in your life. So at the end it's just a process to unlearn what you already knew. Yeah. And understand that sometimes that can be a little bit scary to be humble to understand you don't know sometimes you don't know everything. So yeah, in the end, it's I would say that just stay curious and understand that sometimes you have to unlearn what you believe.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Yeah, that's really good because uh everything is a lie once you understand Bitcoin. So you have to unlearn everything that you know. That was good, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Yeah, for example, I start with Bitcoin and then I get to exercise, then I get to health, then I get to cooking. And it's just a process to just to understand if your government is lying to you in one thing. Why is not lying in everything, right? It's like just as hard to get to the point to you're your uh do your own com um you're the you do your own conclusions.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Yes, yeah, think, think for yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

Critically think, think for yourself and unlearn and be willing, be willing to know that it's okay that things that we were taught in the past maybe aren't what we thought it was. And that was eye-opening for me too when we when I was navigating this as well. And just having conversations with people like you and just going, wow, I really was, I continuously am like always like holy cow, like we were totally lied to, you know, for so long. And yeah, and I love that it kind of reaches to different parts of your life too, not just the not just currency, but it goes into your health and your your just all aspects of your life, your relationships, all of that. It's just super important. So yeah, gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

One second, you just wanted me too, fam, like uh like unlearn and think right for yourself. Uh so one of my friends, uh Andrew, he has this, he just said this to me the other day. It was so good. He's in he's he recently um immigrated into America, and he was like, Why does everybody in America they use their hands to work? Uh God gave them hands to work, and God gave us a brain and no one uses it here in America. He's like, No one uses this. And I'm like, I know, I know, I don't get it. I don't get it, Andrew. I don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

Yeah, it's it's it's interesting to see in a different perspective, right? When you're living your own time for I don't know for how long, but even in El Salvador, when I got to different countries, it's just an unlearning process how the people are in different cultures. It's like, yes, I have to understand, I have to adapt, and it's part of the process. Adapting is pretty important.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Pam, for joining us today. I love your perspective, and I feel like you have such a great presence on the ex community. Where can people connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Well, you can find me on X and well on my other platforms like Pamela, who double e Pamela Posada, or you can find Sister of Satoshi. We are we are in every single uh social media. Sister of Satoshi is a women's community, but at the end is open to learn for everyone that speaks Spanish. So if you want to learn a little bit of Spanish, it's also great to see you there. But yeah, that's where you can find me. Also on Nostor. I'm also like Pamela Posada. So yeah, I'm really happy to meet you guys. I really appreciate the time that you spent with me tomate today as well.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

Oh, awesome! Well, thank you so much, and um, thank you everyone else for tuning in to To the Moon with the Lunas, and we'll see you all on the moon.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

Bye.