Unmuted
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How a Hairy-Assed Farmer Became a Scottish Success Story
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He thought he was indestructible, but when illness brought him to his knees it also served him with lessons of personal growth he never expected.
Mike Forbes is former fly-fishing champion, in his own words a ‘hairy-assed farmer’ from Angus, and a man who looked a 10% survival rate in the eye and told it to sod off.
This episode of the Unmuted podcast shares the bare faced resilience but also the unswerving humility of Mike’s spirit.
Mike started life as a second generation farmer who sees opportunities in challenges. When the pig farming business was in decline, he transformed a run down boathouse into a coveted luxury country resort.
His real transformation occurred during his recovery from a rare leukemia. Faced with a 10% survival rate, Mike found faith through a series of events that have shaped him into a man who now expresses empathy, humility and transparency.
For those of you who have visited Forbes of Kingennie Country Resort, the history of the location and man who made this place will likely astound you. For anyone who has faced a dark journey of their own, this podcast might serve as a beacon of light.
An incredible story of an incredible man whose outlook on life is from a life well lived.
#forbespfkingennie #mikeforbes #faithlikepotatoes #inspiringstories #scottishheroes
Music: 'Spirit of Fire' - fiftysounds.com
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In this episode of A Muted, Mike Forbes, we discussed faith.
SPEAKER_01It seems funny and and I'm no Bible thumper. I'm still a robust, pretty hairy-ass farmer myself, but there it's changed my dynamics of life and the way I look at things. And and um I'm far more appreciative of people and and things that that mean an awful lot to me. And I find it quite hard to say it because I'm so emotional about that whole series period in my life. But I you know I did I you know I told you in the beginning, I wear my heart my sleeve, and I'm just saying it the way I feel it, Gary.
SPEAKER_00We discuss leukemia.
SPEAKER_01The leukemia wasn't just straightforward in the sense that I did manage to get clear of the first uh uh leukemia uh disease that hit me. But very shortly after, within a year, I was actually diagnosed a second time with the most aggressive type of leukemia you can get, which is acute lymphoblastic leukemia, Philadelphia positive. The most aggressive you can get, and it kills an awful lot of people.
SPEAKER_00And we discussed his love of Scotland.
SPEAKER_01People say to me, you know, why are you so passionate? And and and I I virtually feel like saying, Listen, I've got a heather in my veins, I don't have blood, I've got bloody heather, it's the same colour, I can't can't help myself.
SPEAKER_00Hello, I'm Gary Robinson. Mike Forbes is many things. He's a Scottish national fly fishing champion, one-time captain of the Scottish fly fishing team, he's an entrepreneur, he's lived with leukemia more than once, he's a hospitality expert, a passionate Scott. But if you ask Mike what he really is, he'll tell you that he's a simple pig farmer from Angus in Scotland. Now, if you're looking for a story of resilience, diversification, faith, and no nonsense talking, well, you've come to the right place. Here's a man who's looked death in the face and told it uncategorically to f sod off. More of that shortly. We started the interview with uh an example of Mike's most typical self-effacing style.
SPEAKER_01Well, firstly, thanks uh for having me along, Gary. It's very kind of you. Consider someone um who I class as being relatively small in the magnitude of all the other people you've had. Um so but uh with regards to my childhood and background, um contrary to belief, uh I was actually born in Epping in England. My parents um uh who were married um in Scotland decided to farm in England on one of my grandfather's farms, and during that time that's when they had me. Um dad didn't enjoy farming in England um at all, um, and we decided, or they decided that they wanted to move at the when I was at the ripe old age of two to come to Omaki in Dundee. So when I was two, that's when we moved up. I was born in Epping and uh went straight into New Bigging primary school um and um had a great time there, met a lot of old kids, and uh then moved to Dundee High, had a short while in Dundee High before I went to Gornston. All my dad's uh brothers and dad were in Gornston. Uh I was in Gornston and all my sisters went to Gornston. So, how how many generations had been in farming prior to you? Um prior to your dad being in England. Well, my granddad actually wasn't a farmer at all. He he started his life wrapping parcels in the bottle in the bottom of a uh uh uh high street store in London, and then decided to come up uh to Slain's Park at Kineff and uh had uh four boys after marrying um Elizabeth uh Milne, um my granny, and um from there he managed to successfully uh get a farm for each one of his sons. And in doing that, you know, he he was not a typical farmer, he didn't think like a typical farmer. Uh he was a very lateral thinker and um uh was I think um inspirational to the boys um in a lot of the things he did, and that I think has probably had a knock-on effect to myself.
SPEAKER_00And your mom's American?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, mum's American. Um quite a romantic story there. Um uh many years ago, um my um aunt invited mother, who was at finishing school in Switzerland, to come over for a long weekend. And one of the stipulations to my mother at the time was that she was not to fall in love with a Graeme Forbes, and as you can imagine, that was the very first thing she did. She fell in love with Graeme Forbes, um, and um the romance started from there. Uh, dad did not have enough money to go to America to ask her to marry him, so he worked his way across in a cattle boat. He borrowed um money from uh my mum's mum, granny, uh, to buy an engagement ring. He bought an engagement ring, asked mum to marry her, and then he left mum in America to come back because he could not afford to take mum with him. He then worked at home to get enough money, money to bring mum ho home, uh as it were. So um it quite a romantic story, and that's what started, I suppose, the uh Forbes family here.
SPEAKER_00Your father seems to be a very, very focused man. Very focused, very determined. Do you get that? Is that do you are you chip off the old block?
SPEAKER_01He is incredibly focused, but you know, he has the ability in business and to roll with the punches, and and you know, he is a very diverse businessman um in his own right. Um uh, but he has an incredible ability to pull people together, to make them feel at one end during negotiation, and then be really tough in it. And I suppose one of the things, the core things, values he said to me um over the years is listen, Mike, it's imperative that you do the hardest bargaining deal you possibly can do. And once you've done that deal, you stand by that deal. And I think that's a pretty sound business ethic um uh to to base all all decision making on our business propositions.
SPEAKER_00And unfortunately, not all businesses operate or run like that, or indeed have an ethos.
SPEAKER_01No, no, they don't. Um, but I've been pretty rigorous in everything I've done, having a formula um of uh the way I would like things run, and I also believe in that staff need to feel uh part of the business, and to do that they need to be properly informed, and it forms part of the leadership uh um I take and and the role I play in driving my businesses forward.
SPEAKER_00So you've you've you still have the farm, of course, and it's grown and grown, and and you're famous for your for your pigs and your berries and your peas. Um how long have you had the farm? And then how did the Forbes of Kingeny Estate come out of that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's an interesting question. We've we've had the the farm now for 50 years. My dad was the first generation farmer on that Forbes farm or on the Omaki farm, and I'm the second generation. When we when we I took over, I was 21, the farm was around 700 acres in size and um had quite small components of what I have at the moment because I expanded that. But on the farm there was a overgrown and very run-down um boathouse with a uh small lochen on the side of it, and it was just used by all the kids and and and all the locals as a bit of a den of iniquity.
SPEAKER_00Just for those who who may be listening to this abroad or even south of the border, a Lochen?
SPEAKER_01A Lochen is a small loch, and the name Omaki, and you'll probably hear it in in this interview used several times in Gaelic is Land of the Up and Downs. Um and going back to the boathouse, you know, that was part of the farm, and uh I had a uh a sport called fishing, which I thoroughly enjoyed, and as a kid grew up with that, and uh from from fishing the little burns in the glens with worms, I moved to fly fishing, and from fly fishing I moved to competition fly fishing, and from there um I became national fly fishing champion for Scotland in the early 90s, and then Captain Scotland, and then won the Phoenix Salvar in Ireland, which is the best Scottish Rod and International, and that was I suppose a key to the decision making uh in re-resurrecting what was the old boat house and a very silted up overgrown pond. Um and uh I it's not everything to to why I went to to diversify into that. Um I suppose the key driver in in me making a decision that I needed to diversify was that the pig business uh was going through some horrendous times. In the UK we were we were killing, when I started pigs, around 300,000 bacon pigs a week. Today we kill only 150,000. And during that that series of events which saw the pig industry collapse, I became very nervous that all my eggs were in one at one basket and look to diversify. And knowing a lot about fishing um and um wanting to to promote that, I thought, well, people in fact will want to come and see what a national champion has created, and that in fact was wrong. They didn't want to come and see a national champion what he'd created. You know, they they what they wanted to have was a a place, a fishery built by a fisherman that for fishermen. So I understood what they wanted and the things that drove them to go fishing. It wasn't because I was some fantastic fisherman or some incredible guy that played very little um part in in the end result, to be honest with you. And was that a little bit of a blow to your ego? Yeah, you know, I'm not I'm not an egotistic guy. I'm hugely competitive, but I'm not an egotistic guy. Um, but uh I'm a proud individual, and I think getting egos and proudness mixed are two very important things that you shouldn't do. Um, and and I think some people who don't know me would think I'm very egotistic, but really the matter of fact is that I'm a very proud individual. I'm proud of the things I've created, I'm proud of the people who work for me, I'm proud of my children and all my family and my family's family, and that is a huge difference from being an egotistic someone driven by um awards and and and lapels. Now I've got awards and I've got cups and I've got medals, gold medals, but that's because I'm hugely competitive. It's not because I'm some wizard who's wanting to be some you know looked up at by everybody. I'm just a Joe Bloggs at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_00So we went from the uh from the boathouse, the Leann and Boathouse, to to what you have today, which is a sprawling estate with beautiful lodges, with a restaurant, with a fantastic facility for for weddings, which the business has grown year on year, double-digit growth uh in in certain instances. How did you get there and what were the major challenges?
SPEAKER_01It w there was a huge challenge, and and for a farmer to do enter into the public domain was the learning curve was massive. And I made a lot of mistakes along the way, I don't mind admitting that. But what I never did was I never buried my head in the sand and and just expected mistakes to disappear. I learned from mistakes and moved on. One of the big decisions, in fact, probably the biggest decision for going the route I went down was that I thought fishermen would want to come and utilize a nice place, restaurant, lodges, call it what you want, um, and they would share in that in that bigger experience. And I was wrong. What they wanted to do was they still I couldn't get them to break away from bringing a sarney and a soup along for a day's fishing in the outdoors. And I had to make one big decision. Do I just stick with this pretty backward way of of doing which is which is romantic and fishing, and that's what part part of it is getting away from all this, or do I say, right, I'm actually going to become a destination. I'm actually going to be something special in the east of Scotland, and I'm going to put my flag in the ground, and I'm going to stand by that, and I'm going to bring things to that that makes people want to come to me, and that's what I decided to do.
SPEAKER_00A question we're asking all our guests, and there is a there is a format, Mike, to these uh podcasts, is we're asking uh individuals to reveal something that's taken them to a to a dark place and and how they then battled it and came through the other side.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I knew you were going to ask that, and I've debated it, and and I and I've decided just to be uh my normal self and blunt and open. I did I've been in a very dark place. I mean very dark place, close to dying. Um and it it's quite tricky to discuss, but um, if you bear with me, I will I will tell you about it. Um several years ago I was diagnosed with leukemia, and um uh mm the leukemia wasn't just straightforward in the sense that I did manage to get clear of the first uh uh leukemia of uh disease that hit me. But very shortly after, within a year, I was actually diagnosed a second time with the most aggressive type of leukemia you can get, which is acute lymphoblastic leukemia, Philadelphia positive. The most aggressive you can get, and it kills an awful lot of people. And the darkest moment was when the doctor said to me I had that, and he said that he couldn't give me all the preparation I needed to accept a transplant because I'd had so much from my previous leukemia, and that is like falling off the edge of a cliff and staring death in the face. And it makes me quite emotional thinking about it, so you'll just have to bear with me. But uh what happened was that um he I think gave me a 10% chance of survival. I was very fortunate and I had a um uh donor match, a sibling donor match, and my sister Carol, and uh due to that it it set me um probably better chance of surviving it than than most. But the the bottom line was he couldn't get me in a position to accept the donor transplant, and that position is you have to have no s no no um uh body immunity at all, so he has to kill all the cells in your body, and if he did that, he would have killed me. And he said to me categorically, I'm going to take you as close to killing you as I can, Mike, because that's the only way I'm going to give this a chance of survival. And he did, and he he he he lo and behold um managed to to get me as close to it. I still had 10% of my own body cells in that, and if you can imagine putting someone else's in there, they still have the ability to fight that. And that's his concern was that my 10% left inside of me would have fought my sister Carol's um bone marrow, and uh that would kill it and then in fact make it useless to me. But that didn't happen. I managed to survive that the bone marrow embedded it in myself in my bone, Carol's bone marrow embedded itself in my bone, and it then started to ignite and um grow in in the way that she had produced it. So I uh managed to avoid that. So um that was the was the closest, uh, you know, darkest area of my my whole life, and uh complicated and and made a little worse by the fact that I'd had a son, Cameron, who did 15 years of leukemia and three relapses. So I felt I was dragging my family through some horrendous thing, and funnily enough, I never at any stage worried about myself and the feelings of potentially dying. I was more worried about the hell I was going to take my whole family through again after seeing 15 years of of their brother, um my son, um going through horrendous periods.
SPEAKER_00And that drove you to to you know mentally, I I can't even begin to imagine how you cope with anything like that mentally. But is was that the driving factor that that kept you going?
SPEAKER_01There was quite a few parts that kept me going. Um and uh I I found a faith along the way uh in in an incredible set of circumstances, which because I would have been an atheist prior to leukemia, and um found a faith along the way. I and and I when I sat down and discussed it with my father, he said, Listen, son, it needed more than a faith, and it needed more than a doctor to tell you that you do it, you needed to have a positive mental attitude, and I think that was a massive part in me getting through everything that I got through.
SPEAKER_00On the flip side of that really tough question, and I I thank you for that really honest answer, Mike. Um share with us a highlight, a professional or a personal highlight that that really really stands out for you.
SPEAKER_01You know, being national champion uh of your country in your chosen sport can't get any higher, and being captain of your country at international level can't be higher. But to to push that aside, things which stand out for me, uh you know, I was I was recently voted UK uh runner-up UK Arable Farmer of the Year. I was recently voted uh Angus uh County Ambassador of the Year. Um I have a small building development that was voted um luxury small development in the UK of the year. These are things which have meant a lot to me. And I I don't I don't hang my hat on any of them. You know, I'm just built that way. You know, you if you get Mike Forbes, you get 110%.
SPEAKER_00And let's go let's go back to leadership, which you touched on earlier. Um here's a here's one for you. Have you changed your leadership style since going through that incredible illness?
SPEAKER_01Have you changed your approach? I do, yeah. There's there's no question I would change my approach. I've changed it in life as well as leadership, and uh I still have have a pretty hard approach to doing business deals, but when it comes to leadership, I have mellowed enormously. Um and to the some some to the extent some people might say I'm soft, um to my staff I hope they would say that that I'm more at one with them. And uh I I think it's very important.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, I'm just dying to ask, and you'll tell me to sort off if you don't like it, and no, you will. But so were you a bit of an ogre before?
SPEAKER_01I think you know prior to and it's this if you go back to prior to leukemia, and I think this is one of the reasons and God's intervention took place. I firmly believe that I thought I was indestructible. I thought that nobody should stand in my way. I deserved the right to drive forward at my pace and have nobody intervene, and I was so wrong. I was wrong on many fronts, and I do believe it was a good Lord's way of saying, Son, I'm in charge of your destiny. You will do what I say when I'm ready to do it. And that has brought humility to me.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Okay. Sorry to interrupt, but I thought I must ask that question before I lose it. Um what what are the what are the attributes that you look for in in leaders? Because you know, you you're you uh are probably I would l like to imagine going to put your feet up at some point and relax and enjoy life, but it's a family business. So what are you expecting from from the next generation of Forbes in terms of leadership? What attributes should they be showing?
SPEAKER_01I I think if you go back a little prior to that again, for me, um I want my children to um you know it's not all about the exams. It never has been for me. It's understanding, having a common sense and a value for a pound. And if they understand the value of a pound and have common sense, they can go further in life than any exam will ever take them. And that to me is really, really important. Um but when it comes to leadership, you know, and you touch on that, and and and I and I'm a I'm loving having my daughter Libby working for me at the moment, um, and and working with her and and trying to teaching her some of the things I've learned. Um but and I think it is so important that you can do everything that your staff can do, and that your your people, your family, the peoples who are coming on behind you can see that you don't mind getting dirty at any stage and that you don't mind sticking it in when this things get tough and really getting your your sleeves rolled up. It's absolutely imperative. But I think it's important that they understand your vision and they see the steps in which you plan to take to get there. Okay, steps are never always followed, it's it there's always wobbles along each way. But it's how you deal with those wobbles that are important. It's not how they obstruct you. And and I'm not maybe explaining it that well, but I have a very clear definition of where I want to go and I have clarity better than most. But it's it's taking people alongside you and letting them understand that. And I think prior to leukemia, I wasn't very good at that. And I think to take people on side, whether it's your family, whether it's the people you you, you know, I have 250 people work for me, whether those people understand what you want, I think is imperative to a successful business. If they understand what you want and they're getting job satisfaction through that, I think that you will have a better workforce and a better team than anyone else could compete with.
SPEAKER_00I just want to touch on technology. This is a question that we're asking all the guests as well. And we've had varying answers. But technology, as we know, has changed dramatically over the past 30 years. So, you know, from me nipping down the road to m from my mates from the phone box and putting 5P in to now having iPads and all that sort of stuff. Technology has changed dramatically for all of us. Does that worry you or does that excite you for the future?
SPEAKER_01It wholly excites me. Um, and I was one of the first guys to um use a computerized system to record all my pigs um series of events on the farm. And uh that was the basis for me picking up computers and working with them in a very early age. I I I think it's incredible where we've gone, and you've got two options either you embrace that as a businessman or person, or you push it to some side and I know to to one side, and I know some people who have done that, and I would encourage everybody in business to embrace it because it makes you more efficient. You there is there is things you can tap into to allow access to all over the world, and and that obviously includes the World Wide Web that we're now faced with today. But I would include that technology in in allowing you to become a better business person and to allowing you to to utilize the tools of of what we've we've now been given through that. And I think that's just hugely important.
SPEAKER_00And uh I take it from what you're saying that your life has been made easier from when you were a 21-year-old farmer to where you are now through technology.
SPEAKER_01Oh, massively so. Um but it farming's different because you've got the vagas of weather to deal with, and that always throws um huge issues at you which can't be conquered by technology. I think my grandfather has typically said, and and just I use this as a small um caveat, that if you're buying a combine to do a hundred acres um that has the capacity to do it, he always said you should make sure the combine has the capacity to do that and another half again, so 150 acres. So if things are tight and the weather's against you, you can you have a combine that can go basically double the speed of a combine that you would have bought just to do your acreage. And that allows you to deal with s some of the the the improbabilities that weather throws at you.
SPEAKER_00Can you suggest a book that may and I'm trying to avoid saying that's changed your life because I want it to change somebody else's life who's listening to this. Can you suggest something?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I can, and um this book changed my life and enormously, and it will change others. There's no question about that in my mind, none whatsoever. And it's a book called Faith Like Potatoes, and it's written by a chap called Angus Buccan, who's an evangelist, who's a Scotsman that um uh started his life in the northeast of Scotland and then went across to um South Africa and uh set up a a um a farm that was called Shalom, um which is Zulu for Peace. And the farm takes in uh kids that have got AIDS and all sorts of other things. But when I say faith like potatoes, it stems from uh it be him being a farmer and and he was a rough um and I use the terminology uh you may want to dock it, but here he asked, farmer, he loved rugby and drink, and he was just typical of a farmer. And something the good lord had told him to grow a field of potatoes in a uh middle of South Africa during one of the um toughest periods uh to grow a potatoes. Um and he grew the potatoes against all the advice of his neighbors and people um uh in the area, and he grew the potatoes. And when those potatoes needed rain, which is a tuber initiation, when they start to grow and bulk up, he got rain. When they needed rain to bulk up and become a crop, he got rain. When he needed no rain because blight might have set in, he got dry weather, and he reared the most fantastic crop of potatoes in a in El Nino year, which is the toughest year in anyone's life, but also in the middle of a desert, basically in the middle of South Africa. And he managed to grow that crop of potatoes, and that gave him a huge sum of money, and he put that sum of money to good use. And uh the book goes into great detail. The book actually um Angus Buckin uh does conferences, uh not conferences, that's the wrong word, he does um uh mighty men conferences, they're called, actually by the real name, um, where he brings and he believes he was put on this earth now to change men on their beliefs in the good lord. And because men are the hardest people to complain to to convert to the good lord, he believed. And uh typically farmers and and their robust lifestyle um that was the hardest, and that's why he believes he was chosen to get it across to men. And he now holds mighty men conferences. The first one he held was on his own farm in Shalom. There were 6,000 people who came to it. The second next year there was 12,000 people. In the third year, he needed to take the biggest marquee that was made in this world and put it on his farm, and he had to hire the local farms to put the uh people who came to that mighty men conference. And today he has to use rugby stadiums to hold these conferences. And that book was massive. And I I, as I said earlier in this programme, was an atheist, um, as good as. Um, and when I first had leukemia, my best friend from South Africa champ called Ian Walmsley said to me, Will you please read this book, Faith Like Potatoes? And I said, No, I'm gonna deal with this leukemia myself. I'm sorry, I'm not I don't need to read your book, and I don't have time for that. Um typical of of the the the character I was, the second time I got leukemia and I was actually in Beatson in Glasgow, and um I was uh very close to the edge. I I had been given all the chemo, I was close, I suppose, to dying, and I received a fax in isolation in the beatson. And that's never been done before. They just don't get faxes in in isolation, you don't get any form of and I got this nurse coming through to me with this paper. She handed it to me, I can remember as clear as it was yesterday. She gave me this paper and she said, We've had the most obscure facts, Mr. Forbes, uh, but it is to you, and I think you should read it. And it was directly from Angus Bucking. And he said to me Mike, your good friend Ian Walmsley has come to speak to me on your behalf. And he says he realizes you are in a difficult place. And he wants me to say a prayer for you. And I'm just letting you know I'm saying a prayer for you, I'm thinking about you. And that was a turning point in me thinking, you know, there's more to this whole picture. And um I then read the book, uh at the end of the book, um, I found myself at the end of my own bed in isolation, praying to the good Lord and saying the sinner's prayer, which is at the end of the book. I would encourage people to read it. I mean, Angus Buchan hasn't ha hasn't had a straightforward life. I mean, he ran on ran over one of his own children with a tractor, and and it tested him his resolve to the end, and he's actually collapsed and f and died at the Big Men Mighty Men's conference. The air ambulance took him away. Everyone thought he was dy he had died on stage. He they all prayed for him, and he returned the next day. The doctor had said, We can see no reason why he's had a heart attack or what's gone wrong, but it's a miracle that he's still here, and he puts it down to the fact that so many men praying for him on that one occasion. It seems funny, and and I'm no Bible thumper, I'm I'm you know, I'm still a robust, pretty hairy ass farmer myself, but there it has changed my dynamics of life and the way I look at things, and and um I'm far more appreciative of people and and things that that mean an awful lot to me. And I find it quite hard to to say it because I'm so emotional about that whole series period in my life. But I you know I you know I told you in the beginning, I wear my heart in my sleeve, and I'm just saying it the way I I feel it, Gary.
SPEAKER_00What do you love about this country of ours and its people? Oh, where do you want me to start, Gary?
SPEAKER_01I I've travelled around the world, I've been all over Mum's America, and I've all the family in America, I worked my way around the world, been all over it. And I can't tell you there is no better place in Scotland, anywhere in the world, and there's no better county than Angus. And I believe that from the bottom of my heart. And I go to the most furthest or most wildest places that Scotland provides. I've just come back from Gary Hine in Outer Hebrides. That was incredible. It's beauty, its remoteness, outer Hebrides. I've been to Shetland, Orkney, Scotland itself. It doesn't matter whether it's the glens, the hills, the rivers, the people, the people, the warmth. I could go on endlessly about this. And I I and I and I and I'm just so happy that that you asked me that question because it means so much to me. I, you know, people say to me, you know, why are you so passionate? And and and I I virtually feel like saying, Listen, I've got heather in my veins, I don't have blood, I've got bloody heather, it's the same color, I can't can't help myself, and and I love it.
SPEAKER_02You've been listening to a podcast curated and produced by Unmuted.