Unmuted
Unmasking the stories of brilliant people.
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Unmuted
What is it really like to work for the world’s most powerful families?
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In this episode of Unmuted, host Gary Robinson sits down with Peter McGinnis, a veteran of the global high-end service industry. From the prestigious Ivor Spencer School for Butlers to the sun-drenched decks of superyachts and the private suites of Hollywood royalty, Peter has seen it all.
Recording live from a park bench between Hyde Park and Kensington, Gary and Peter explore the evolution of "service," the stark differences between old and new money, and why Emotional Intelligence (EQ) is the ultimate survival tool when your boss is a billionaire.
Music: 'Spirit of Fire' - fiftysounds.com
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What's the James of Wayne? History Made. History Made.
SPEAKER_01Hello, I'm Gary Robinson and welcome to Unmuted. Now, do you watch programs like Below Deck, Downton Abbey, Made in Chelsea, or Amazing Hotels Life Beyond the Lobby? Well, my guest, Peter McGuinness, gives you and me a sneaky peek into life below and above stairs.
SPEAKER_02The lady of the house, she was a bit bored. She had enough of travelling. And she was uh she asked me on the QT. And again, this is where emotional intelligence comes in. Husband wasn't to know about this. I was asked how much would it be to get a private jet?
SPEAKER_01Head butler, hotel manager, purser on cruise lines and private yachts, lifestyle manager, Peter has done the lot.
SPEAKER_02I went to the Ivar Spencer School for Butlers, we're not name dropping, but that was very famous. Yes, very famous. It was uh back in the day, um, that was where a lot of the butlers who were placed in all the royal residences, palaces around the world, private families. And actually, that's how I got my first job.
SPEAKER_01We talk old money versus new money.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes a formal dinner situation, you know, when you with older money when all the silver comes out in the crystal. Um, and then the other family I worked for were quite happy to have McDonald's on the table and out of the paper, you know, the McDonald's wrapping.
SPEAKER_01There are some discreet stories about the rich and famous.
SPEAKER_02I uh share. She was great fun. And um, I used to sit in the end of her bed some mornings and have coffee with her. She tried to match me up with her manager, but I really should be living in Malibu now, but that didn't quite work out.
SPEAKER_01We discussed sexuality.
SPEAKER_02I've definitely got the job of living with the ones in America. I definitely got the job hands down because I was gay.
SPEAKER_01EQ and body language.
SPEAKER_02Facial expression. Uh that's another thing, not just you know what you say, your your body language. Sometimes, I mean, I'm not um good at hiding my feelings sometimes. I think it comes out.
SPEAKER_01And the highs and lows of a life in service.
SPEAKER_02Uh there's times it can be very lonely, absolutely. I've sat in many um a fabulous country, fabulous hotel, and thinking, well, this is all very great, but you're here on your own.
SPEAKER_01Peter, lovely to see you. Um as the listener can probably tell, there is an outside ambiance. Uh, we are sort of halfway between Hyde Park and Kensington Park. It's a lovely Sunday morning, uh, a little bit of wind in the background, people jogging past, people walking. It's very uh, as you would expect, very cosmopolitan.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and some nice eye candy as well, and dogs and all sorts of interesting things to look at that.
SPEAKER_01Well, just you keep concentrating on this interview, mister. Uh listen, it's lovely to see you. And um the series around unmuted, concentrate now. The series around unmuted is uh it's it's very much about having emotional intelligence at its core. And uh all the jobs that you've had, which is very loud, that guy. Uh all the jobs that you've had, I think that you've had to have a massive amount of emotional intelligence. Look at your CV in just a moment. But um just for just for the the listener, just give them a brief uh resume of your resume.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I mean I started off Calshire with my parents at a hotel, and I got really um into that from an early age, and then worked through the various departments. I got sent off to bankery once upon a time uh by my father to work in a hotel at a hotel, so I got all aspects from the kitchen to the bar to the restaurant to housekeeping, and then I went back with parents for quite a few years, but I had itchy feet. I've always been a bit of a wanderer, and um I wanted to get more hotel experience, so I went off to Edinburgh and worked in a big hotel there, and then the itchy feet kept on itching, and I went off and was a purser with Cunard Line for many years actually, and was at sea and um loved that. I was there for seven years nearly, and then also private yachts. Um, I got into that, but then the uh the time clock was ticking, I thought I have to get a real job, have to be sensible.
SPEAKER_01And you know the yacht job. I mean, that was before that TV programme Below Deck. Remember that series now that's out there. It makes it makes that life look very glamorous and very sexy, although it does seem like a lot of hard work. Uh you know, is the are those um descriptors similar to what you experienced on a yacht? Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Um it is hard work, it is good fun.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, working for the people that have super preparable yachts. Um yeah, you're betting for a lot of time. I mean you can go for days and days and not set food ashore, so it's not as glamorous as you sometimes think, but um, there's a lot of work involved now.
SPEAKER_01And here's the thing, here's a question for you. How do you bunk up with somebody that you work with them sort of around the clock? You don't like them.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I can tell a story about that. Now you've touched a button. Uh yeah, I had to share a cabin with the chef. And I honestly I'd never shared a room in my life before. And uh that was quite interesting. And he was quite a feisty guy, I have to say. As chefs can be. Yeah, he was feisty. Um, so I had to do a lot of work to get him on my side. Um yeah, he would throw his little tantrums every now and again. Nice with fly, not quite, but you know, it was one of those guys. And um he was French. Um, I did, I kind of won him over though.
SPEAKER_01Actually, I'm really easy. This is this is the this is the core of the interview here, or one of them, one of the many, one of the many cores. How did you do that? What can you share?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, that's quite simple. A lot of hard work, um, proving um yourself almost to the to him and to the other people through just uh I guess through grafting, being fun, see the funny side of life as well.
SPEAKER_01Um did you have to find that you had to communicate on on his level? I mean, if he was very, let's say he was very focused, very precise, asked a lot of questions, which a lot of people can be, but I tend to find possibly people who are less creative really there in their communication styles. Did you feel that you had to match his communication style in order to get on with him, manipulate the situation in a positive way?
SPEAKER_02No, I would read the I would read the mood, um, I think, and then I would know when to just stay a bit clear of the kitchen, I suppose. Um, and then yeah, I mean just working with him as a team, being a team player with them, helping him out as well. You know, I'd go off shopping around the markets with them because it was a lot of shopping, you know, to bring bags to lug back to the to the yacht. So again, just working as a team, I think. That was one of the ways I would say I I kind of want them over. Yeah. Get my hands dirty. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm really intrigued about the head butler um part of your life. And you know, we see the general public see butlers that's very Downton Abbey, once upon a time, upstairs, downstairs, or they might watch, you know, a TV documentary about a very upmarket hotel and have a picture of you know what a butler looks like. Is that true to reality? Is that you know like the Jim Carter style of uh yes mom, yes, sir, Lord, Claude, the you know, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yes and no. Um, so I went to the Ivor Spencer School for Butlers. So not name dropping, but that was very famous. Yes, a very famous thing. It was uh back in the day. Um that was where a lot of the butlers who were placed in all the royal residences, palaces around the world, private families, and actually that's how I got my first job. I did the course. Now, that course was very much, as you've just said, yes and no, sir, you know, a tailcoat. I've done that, and I can do that. I worked in a very famous hotel in London as head butler here and looked after, you know, very high-profile celebrities. Um, however, the other side of butlering um can actually be uh quite the opposite for that. I mean, the other job I had as a butler, or as I was called then lifestyle manager, um, I was very much, I was out in the States working for a very wealthy family who'd five homes. But the I was um very much khakis in t-shirts with them. Um and one of the things that the butler school does drum into you is there's a line, there's an invisible line, but you never cross that line. You're not part of the family.
SPEAKER_01Um and that are they allowed to cross the line though? But what I mean by that is well, sometimes, you know, once you build a relationship with somebody or you have a connection, have you found that they would take you into their confidence? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02I mean, um the uh the the family, I mean, I work for a couple of them in the States, but in particular, the last family, they had two kids, and the kids were from different um uh father. Yeah, yeah. It was a complicated marriage, I won't go into all that, but it was complex. And the the little five-year-old, I mean, I used to take him to his psychotherapist um um because he was challenged by the new family situation. Um yeah, and then the the lady of the house, who was lovely, she was really lovely. Um, but I knew to always just keep that a little bit back. They they would after time, once they got to know you and in their trust, um yeah, they open up and you are part of the family, but you're not, if that makes sense, um, because it can change overnight, things can change, and you need a heck of a lot of self-awareness then, um, and self-regulation.
SPEAKER_01Because I I'm thinking if I was in your position, I'd be I'd be throwing my heart and soul into them and go, tell me, tell me more. And you know, wanting to offer advice. You know the things when you're when you're a particularly empathetic person, those boundaries blur, they certainly do for me. You find that a challenge?
SPEAKER_02Uh uh it's I wouldn't say it's a challenge, but you have to be very mindful of it. And remember at the end of the day, it's work. I think that's the thing. It is a job you're there to do, and you're there, you know, to look after the family as well. Um, and you do get attached to them, there's no doubt about that. I mean, the day I left, I mean, I had to quietly disappear. Um because the the the family, well, the kids especially were so attached to you. And it is hard, but at the end of the day, you've got to you've got to look after yourself as well. But there's a line that's as I say earlier, you just there's a failed fine line that you just don't cross.
SPEAKER_01Right. There's a chap on a unicycle there just going past. I've got to say that um, you know, this I thought this would be a great place to interview, and it is. This is a great place to people watch. However, it's not a great place to interview somebody because there is so much going on. I mean, I've just it's just been a chap. Did you see the chap run by in bare feet there? Yes, I saw that as well. So uh this is it's wonderful, wonderful for people watching a uh a bench uh in the Hyde Park Stroke Kensington Park. But uh anyway. Guy, you were the one that told me I had to focus, and I think you're the one that's great. Well, I'm a great people watcher, I've got a great as this podcast uh series uh indicates. I've got a great interest in people. Right, let's move on. Um, in terms of your uh your the the job, so you've you know you've worked on the your you've done that that you know head butler, high-end butler. My grandma used to just be she was a very damper earth lady, and she would say, It doesn't matter who it is, we've all got one bum, uh, that we do things through. Um and I suppose you know it doesn't matter who you are, which lofty position you have in life, a person's a person is a person, really, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I agree with that, but unfortunately, the world is not always equal, and um there are people who think they are better, there's no doubt about that. Um but as you say, it does all narrow down to we're here for a short time. Um but some people unfortunately don't think that way as well. They think they're superior, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And in your experience, has that been through people having you know a lot of money that's come to them, not certainly not easily, but they've done it through very much hard work. I suppose the term would be new money, or do people who have uh heritage of herited money, herited uh estates, and so on, you know, um, do you find there's a difference in those type of individuals in how they approach life and how they approach dealing with people?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um sadly I do, I think there is with the new money thing, new quick money. Um and I have worked for old school as well. I did a stint in Venice where it was very old money and very, very formal. That was very formal. That was a palazzo in Venice. Um and yes, a much more formal. I don't I didn't I don't like that environment. I much prefer working with uh the newer generation. Um I suppose some more relaxed. Um I mean I could tell like sometimes a formal dinner situation, you know, when you with older money, when all the silver comes out and the crystal. Um and then the other family I worked for were quite happy to have McDonald's on the table and out of the paper, you know, the McDonald's wrapping. So I think the newer the newer world people are more relaxed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We've just walked through a very salubrious part of London that that used to be uh I think one of your previous employers may have called it Bedsit Land, uh, because it was very much Bedsit, but now it's uh high-end apartments, it's very poor, five-star plus hotels. Um and and uh one hotel which is now sadly closed, but it's opened up as uh beautiful apartments, we've just been down there. Um you talked about people like Elton John and Princess Margaret. Um again, you know, I'm not looking for salacious stories, but have you had anything where you've been in in close contact with very, very high-end names and they've been surprisingly human to you? Oh yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Many actually. Yeah. I'm not gonna name names, but I mean there are um some of the high the higher profile people. Well, I will name a name. I uh Cher. She was great fun. And um I used to sit on the end of uh of her bed some mornings and have coffee with her. She tried to match me up with her manager, but I don't think she'd be living in Malibu now, but that didn't quite work out. Um yeah, so there are um yeah, forgotten the question.
SPEAKER_01No, I'm I suppose I'm I'm not asking for salacious stories. I suppose I'm looking for a little bit of insight on the on the on the lives and the the worlds of the rich and famous. Um, I mean, you know, Princess Margaret is no longer with us, and the royal family are in in the news for all sorts of different reasons at the moment. But you know, in in your experience and knowing Princess Margaret, was she as uh vivacious and uh full of life as we're led to believe by the media? You're pulling a wife. I need to describe it. Just Peter's pulling a wee wife and say, I'm not gonna go there. But you know, I think I'll not go too far down that road.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, she was good fun as well. She liked a little tipple, which was quite amusing. But yeah, she could be quite normal. Yeah, it could be. But again, goes back to that thing. When you meet people at that level, you really have to kind of know your place and just hold rein it in, rein it in a little bit sometimes with people like that. And if they want to have a joke, have a laugh, that's fine. You go for it then, but you have to be just careful sort of way at that level. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Do you ask it? Do you ask a little bit old school now these days? You know, we're in we're in 20, 26. Is it you think that sort of thinking's a wee bit old school? Yes, I do now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think we've moved on. I think every the world changed a lot. I suppose after COVID. Yeah. Um, and I would say people are more relaxed now. It used to be funny enough, when I was back in the day, when I wore my tailcoat, um, it was very Americanized. Um and I lived and worked in the States for quite a few years. And I always used to think, well, could Britain can't be like this. They're more natural. The American people are much more um easier to talk to. Whereas I think us as Brits are a bit more reserved, but I think nowadays it's not. It's actually we've become more Americanized, more relaxed, comfortable in our own skin, I suppose.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. The thing that's that in in terms of dramas, if I'm thinking about Downton Abbey and Upstairs, Downstairs, if you're of a certain vintage, and those sort of, you know, those those films that have been around, Gosford Park, for instance, is one that comes to mind. It's like you had the guys upstairs who were very hoity-toity and well-to-do, but actually there was a level of snobbery downstairs as well. I think it is that true to life.
SPEAKER_02Um, I would say it used to be. Um, definitely used to be like that. But again, now it's not so much like that. There is a hierarchy, unfortunately. Um but I I do think that's changed a lot as well over the past maybe five, ten years. The people have been uh more equal. And also I think people don't take nonsense anymore at all levels. And people know their rights now, know what you can and cannot get away with, how you treat people has definitely changed for the better. Um the working hours, um, working practices. I think that's all changed for the better. What was the what was the money like? In America, I mean I went, I suppose, I went for the money, I think. Uh yeah, I did back then. But um Yeah, it's not just the money, there's also benefits. You know, you can get a nice apartment, they usually give you a car. There there are, you know, benefits that go with it. So but you do you you will never work so hard in all your life. I mean, it is um you've got no life basically, uh as a ta as a as a personal life, and I guess that's why I was single, I think, many years, because you just have to put your life to it. I mean, I can tell stories when um you've had maybe tried to make personal plans, and all of a sudden your employer has come up with something. I mean, I can come up with a good story. My mum and sister came to visit me in San Francisco when I worked there, and uh it's all arranged. We were having 12 days there with me. I was gonna take time, my employer said, yeah, come over, we'll have your family over. And then I think on day five, um, I had to upstock and go with my employers over on a shopping spree to Rome. And I never forget I'm to tell my mother and my sister that by the way, sorry, I have to leave you here on your own. So, you know, there's there's drawbacks to it as well.
SPEAKER_01How do you I mean one of the one of the core components of EQ is self-regulation? How do you manage to bite your tongue in those sort of situations? I mean, I suppose you'd lose your job if you didn't do anything else. Maybe that's the motivation to to not say anything, you know? Or do you just go, well, come on, boss, you know, fair's fair.
SPEAKER_02No, I think I wouldn't do, oh come on, boss, fair's fair. No, I wouldn't do that. You have to uh definitely learn to count to ten. Maybe count to a hundred. Sometimes. Facial expression, uh, that's another thing, not just you know what you say. Your your body language, sometimes, I mean, I'm not um good at hiding my feelings sometimes. I think it comes out not uh just in what you say, but it's how you behave, uh how you look. Yeah. You have to be some you really have to bite your tongue sometimes. But that's part of your training.
SPEAKER_01And and that training and those jobs, I mean, are jobs like that still available these days, or are they available in in a different guise? Uh no, they're very much available.
SPEAKER_02Um a lot of headhunters, actually, um, and agencies um also word of mouth, but these jobs are very much available still. And quite well paid. I mean, the Middle East was um creative. Lot of people went um for these lifestyle manager, butler, household managers. Middle East was a big attraction. Um yeah, I never went there. I tended to be more Europe or America.
SPEAKER_01You talked about going on a shopping trip to Rome, Italy, I think, a few moments ago. What's the most one of the most extravagant things PT have ever seen?
SPEAKER_02Well, that's I can straight away, and I'm laughing now. Uh I was asked once um by my American employers, and I'll never forget this. I was in Denver, Colorado, with friends having a little bit of um escape for a day or so. And um, it was the day's pre-mobile phone. Um, I was attached to your pager. And uh my pager went off because I literally had a pager of 24-7, and it was a voicemail, so I you had to go and dial, you know, 1-800, pick up the voice message. And I was basically asked if I could go and buy the latest, newest, sexiest black Mercedes-Benz S500, black leather interior. And I had one of these um black American Express cards where basically it was money was no object. So again, it was pre-internet, so I'm sure my age now, but I remember going through the yellow pages uh uh and finding all the dealerships, and I eventually managed to track one down, um, and it was over on the east coast of the States. So I had to arrange for that to be transported over from the East Coast over to California. I think that was one of my more bizarre.
SPEAKER_01And was that that's that sounds like it was uh something that was just asked for on a whim? Absolutely it was.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean a lot of the the other one was I was um traveling once on a long, a long trip. We were away for a couple of months, and um the lady of the house, she was a bit bored, she'd had enough of travelling. But then she was uh she asked me on the QT, and again, this is where emotional intelligence comes in. The husband wasn't to know about this, but um, I was asked how much would it be to get a private jet to get back home because she was missing home and the family at home. Um, so again, I had to it with fax, no mobile, no mobile phones, no internet um from the middle of the Pacific to find out how much it would be to get this private jet. But when she found out the cost, she said it was funny what she said to me. And I was well, remember this. She said, I think I've found something I cannot justify. That's what she said.
SPEAKER_01It was an astronomical cut. I did probably eye watering. Eye watering. Um what a life from you know, from the the from the with the we town in in Scotland, doing some training in bankery, which is also in Scotland, to live the life sitting on Cher's bed, not hooking up with her manager, dear oh dear. I mean, these are wonderful stories. Um here's an interesting one, uh, and you know, I hope you don't mind me asking it. But there's a lot of there's a lot of um a lot of gay guys, uh gay people um who are attracted to this world. And I'm thinking of things like, you know, from the royal family, you heard of uh the the Queen Mom, uh was it was it Backstairs, is it Backstairs Billy? Backstairs Billy, yeah. And some, you know, you you hear some some some party stories and come back to the palace and all that sort of stuff. Why, why do you think, and I could be completely wrong here, right? So tell me if I am, if I'm way out of line, but why do um people like you and I, why, why are we attracted to jobs like this, do you think? Well, this good question.
SPEAKER_02Um, it doesn't make me it's making me laugh. Um I think I've definitely got the job of living with the ones in America, I definitely got the job hands down because I was gay. And the particular job um uh with my California employers was absolutely the lady um she loved all the gay guys and the gay girls. And um again, I was San Francisco, so what more can I say? However, um I think going back to I think um the gay guys, attention to detail. Um, again, I said I was single most of my life doing this particular these these jobs. Um, because you you do have to give up a lot of your personal time. Um it's not a nine to five, it's not, you know, honey, I'll be home at six o'clock tonight and take the kids out. You have to devote your time because the life, their lifestyle goes so fast that you have to go along with it. And I think again, attention to detail that the gay guys have, you know, we've got a good eye, um, a good sense of humor, I would say, you know, mischievous, good fun. Um, but also again, I think a lot of empathy with them. You know, they can read the room, read situations more. Um, I think that's why. Also, there's the attraction of travel. I mean, absolutely, I've literally went around the world with my job. Um, stayed in nice hotels with my job, stayed in, you know, lined and dined in great places, um, worked on private yachts, and I think there's an attraction. I think the gay guys like they like the glam. They like the Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, I can I can see that. I can I can see that. And it's a question that I really, you know, wanted to ask. It's one of those difficult questions in in the environment. Probably 10 years ago, 20 years ago, I wouldn't have had a problem really thinking too much about that question. But you've just got to be uh you've got to be sensitive to where we are in the world these days. Um in terms of in terms of the life that you've had, and it has been, you know, you've you've been very independent, you've, you know, with the work that you've had, you've not always had the opportunity to share your personal life with somebody in the way that you've you've you've mentioned. Have you ever regretted any of that? Has there been ever any regrets of not having Mr. Wright, Mr. Husband?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no regrets. No, I've had a good life, good time. Uh there's times it can be very lonely. Absolutely. I've sat in many um a fabulous country, fabulous hotel, and thinking, well, this is all very great, but you're here in your own. Um but again, my my personality, my character, yeah. And uh the other side of it is I've met some great people all over and still friendly. You know, I've got contacts in a lot of parts of the globe. But if I didn't do that job, I wouldn't, you know, be able to do. So no, I don't regret it.
SPEAKER_01No, not at all. That's brilliant. Because you're still traveling now, and you know, you're even, you know, you've just been away at the start of the year, you're heading out and so on. But you're still you're still working. I mean, you're still open for work. The the phone still rings, doesn't it? But what's what sort of jobs come through for you?
SPEAKER_02So I'm at that time in my life now. I don't want um necessarily the responsibility, the worry of the full management jobs of hotels or you know, the lifestyle house, the house manager roles. Um I like to um fill in in um troubleshoot roles. Um I'm I'm good at particular, I would say, project managing. Um, and if something did come along through my connections, I would do it, but only for short term, three months, six months. I would like to know the get out clause. Um my other side of life, which is completely different, and we haven't really talked about this, is I actually did some care in the community. Um, so my mum had um, she was very bad with dementia for quite a lot of years. And um, I've kind of well, I've slowed down in the work life, but I have done a bit of care in the community support work, and I enjoy that. It's completely different from the lifestyle that I've had, but it's very humbling to see how um and I've I've missed a lot of that chapters of my life because of the high-profile situations I've been in, the magnificent houses and residences and hotels that I've worked in, and I'm now at the other end of the spectrum where I'm going into other people's houses, supporting them, keeping them company, making sure they're eating, taking the medications, taking them out. So I've done a whole different um aspect of people looking after people and emotional intelligence big time comes into that.
SPEAKER_01Doesn't it just that's I'm so grateful that you brought that up because I'm similar in the sense I left the corporate world and went into this world of world of care. What surprised you, if anything, about that transition from the world you were in to the world of people who have who are traumatized, who have struggled all their life, people who may not have been shown any kindness or love. I mean, it is as simple as that, although it's a very complicated area. What was there anything that that shocked you or surprised you about that transition and about what you subsequently found out?
SPEAKER_02Yes, um some of the conditions that people have to live in and they struggle um with either physical and you know our mental issues, but I think the hardships that they've had to go through, financial hardships, you know, physical hardships. Um it was quite eye-opening for me to see um that's that and a big change for me. But it was really it's good for me, it's really good, it's great, it grounds me, keeps me, keeps my feet on the ground.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What what transferable skills did you say with you? Uh one number one people skills, absolutely. Top of the list, people skills. You know, you can teach people's um uh a lot of the technical skills of looking after, you know, looking after the medicines and you know things like that. However, the people skills, I mean, people are aren't maybe having the best days, so you've got to learn, I don't know, well, know how to deal with them if they're having a bad day, or and I think that's the big thing, the the the skills, the people skill transition.
SPEAKER_01Me too, there. Just thinking as that chap was going by with the ghetto blaster on his on his bike that he won't sell many ice creams going at that speed. I'm sorry, so we try to think of that Morgan and Wise joke very badly. Um this has been a you know a wonderful and enlightening conversation and really epitomizes everything that that I'm a fan of in terms of emotional intelligence. You said you said something really interesting to me as we were walking here to this bench in this lovely park. Um and I'm paraphrasing, you felt that EQ, you either had it or you don't.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm a little bit of a believer of that, I'll be honest. Um, I think it's something in you to be empathetic, a good listener. Not everyone has that. Unfortunately, not everyone has that. Um you learn it, definitely you learn it through what life throws at you. You learn, um, I think to be a better listener. But um so many people I have worked with who have the brain, the technical skill, the computer skills, but they can just go into a meeting room, drop a bombshell, and I'm thinking, oh, that really wasn't good timing, or you didn't really think before you said that. Uh yeah, so you I do believe it's kind of a new emotional intelligence. You know, some people have the gift of playing a piano, playing an instrument, speaking a language. It's a gift. I think emotional intelligence also is a bit of a gift. I think that's what I mean. You either have it or you haven't. You can learn that.
SPEAKER_01Did you find the creative people that you've worked with or come across, like the shares of this world, or maybe an artist, or whoever, you know, Elton John, whoever they may be, you know, there's big names coming out there, but you've met lots and lots of people. Do they have a different type of EQ than let's say, you know, somebody who's made money through being a top-level scientist or uh an architect or an accountant or somebody who is financially astute? Have you found that there is there are different levels of EQ for creativity and those who aren't particularly creative but are very good with numbers and their mind and so on?
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, I think I think a lot of the high-profile people are used to being around people and lots of different people. So I would say they probably are more or have more level of emotional intelligence. Whereas I think someone um with what I would call technical skills maybe isn't quite as good as that, I'll be honest. I think if you sit behind a keyboard all day in an office or I mean, I think the other thing that bothers me is that all the working from home. I think that's I I I think that's a big problem. And people are not out um and engaging uh so much. And I I'm very mindful of that.
SPEAKER_01Do you think that the rise of um social media, particularly for our next generation coming through, is that gonna be an issue, do you think? Because it's I suppose with the EQ, like any muscle, you either use it or lose it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, a keyboard warrior, they worry me. Yeah, big time. So many people now just sit behind the guys of uh the keyboards and their phones that can have rants and you know go off, go off in one. Um I mean, in the workplace too, and especially in management. I mean, the number of times I've seen people send in an email and thinking, really, why didn't you just go next door and talk to them? Um so I think this this whole workplace has changed a lot. And I I always say to people, draft it, sleep on it. I always if you're gonna have to send an email with a you know a strong one or changing procedures or strategies, you know, draft it, maybe get someone to read over it again, uh check it, sleep on it, because it's so easy to just bash off an email. And it's a bit of a cop-out, I think, from having a proper conversation, sit down, having a good conversation with someone.
SPEAKER_01So as we wrap up, we've got for me, um there are five five aspects to really good EQ. So that's self-awareness, self-regulation, uh, motivation, uh, empathy, and great social skills. I think everybody's different in terms of how on what level they're at. But which which was your key player? Which is which is the one that you go, yeah, that's that's my strength out of those five, would you say?
SPEAKER_02I would say uh my strength is definitely getting people to talk. Um we used to do, and it's quite funny, in one of the hotels, companies I worked for, the staff staff meetings. And they were the old, you know, they could they used to be called staff committee meetings. But um we branded them big mouth meetings, and we used to get um like a representative from each department, and and we used to literally sit around the table and thrash it out, basically. So where there were problems, and we always wanted the biggest, the gobbiest, the mouthiest people because they would know they would tell us the truth. Um so I think to your question, I think one of my strength is definitely getting people to talk. Um, because I think that's one of the that is the most important thing to me.
SPEAKER_01So I think definitely, I think you need a mixture of those. I think I think there's there's a level of there's definitely a level of empathy there. Um and um and I suppose uh social skills come into in fact the the whole the whole five, and I'm and and there's people in the world that believe there's more than the the five, and I'm absolutely sure they are, but for the sake of these conversations, I always go with those five. Peter, it's been wonderful. Um the morning has turned into a lovely afternoon. The sun's out now. Yeah, the sun's out here in uh central London, and you missed Madonna jogging past there a minute ago. Really? No, it's been wonderful. I'm kidding. Oh, that's a whole new podcast. It's lovely to see you, and thank you for being so open and sharing your insights into emotional intelligence, and all the best with your uh future travels, whether they're uh professional or personal. It's been wonderful to see you. Good to see you too. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00This is a podcast curated and produced by Unmuted.