Biggins on Influencers, Babs, Queens, Princess Di and Great Aunty Vi

Six decades in showbusiness. A king of the jungle. A dame of legendary status. And still, somehow, the most genuine man in the room. 

Despite all of these extraordinary accolades, Christopher Biggins offers a masterclass in how to be self-aware without being self-important when he met with Gary Robinson for the latest episode of Unmuted.

Biggins reveals that there was no grand ambition, his career simply unfolded, perhaps in part due to his open-mindedness and lack of ego.

It may be surprising to learn that Biggins cites winning I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! as the single most important thing he's ever done. 

"What is the most important job I've ever done? Winning I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here. Because I won it through the public voting for me." 

An openly gay man who has never hidden his sexuality, He speaks movingly about those who never came out, and the personal cost of living a hidden life. He shares very frank views on influencers, cancel culture and the worrying debt-burden young people face from higher education pressures.

A frank, endearing and revealing interview with one of the UK’s most enduring and entertaining characters. 

Music: 'Spirit of Fire' - fiftysounds.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

People say to me, what is the best job you've ever done? Now, we've talked about all the different things I've done, and I've had an amazing career. Really amazing. What is the most important job I've ever done? Is the fact that I won. I'm a celebrity, get me out of here.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

From playing lukewarm in Porridge, Nero in I Claudius, becoming a cult figure in Rent a Ghost, co-hosting Surprise Surprise with Scylla, King of the Jungle, or Eating Canopies, as a Transylvanian in the Rocky Horror Picture Show, Christopher Biggins is certainly versatile as he is talented.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Barbara Windsor, you know, who was a great, great friend of mine, she in a way taught me how important the public are.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

His friendships with the royal family.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

And uh Diana was sitting on the stairs, rather forlorn. So I went over and I said, chatted, and I said, uh, would you like to dance? I'd love to dance. So I danced with Diana in the hallway of his house.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

We discuss modern life.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Do you know a word I loathe? A new word I loathe beyond measure. It's called influencers.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

We chant about the irony of acting.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

A lot of actors hide themselves away because they're terrified of the public. They're terrified of making. And I think then they become it becomes a real issue, and it becomes difficult for them to live their lives fully.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

And we have a blather about his relationship with the lovely Neil.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

I mean, Neil loves a party. I mean, we go out to opening nights and things, and he wants to party on. I I now want to go home.

unknown 2:02

History major.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Welcome to the Unmuted Podcast. I'm Gary Robinson. Biggins has been a massive part of the British entertainment scene for over 60 years. His natural ability to connect with an audience, his legendary friendships, his joie de vie and talent as a storyteller is as evident today as it ever has been. From Shakespeare to Snow White, he's done the lot. We recently caught up in London, and I make no apologies whatsoever for keeping in my sycophantic bit at the beginning of the interview. I'm a fan after all. This is a warm, insightful interview. And to be honest, if Biggins hadn't been zooming off to the beeb to take part in a radio photo programme, I'd still be there with him now. Drinking tea and soaking in those stories. Enjoy. Christopher, my my quest uh has brought me to London in the search of people with what I believe as to be massive amounts of emotional intelligence. We've we've known each other on and off for a wee while and uh I thought I'd give you a call, and here we are. Yes. Which is wonderful. So thank you for your time. Really appreciate it. Um you you've you've had a from my perspective, a phenomenal career. I I please don't take this the wrong way, but I grew up with you on the telly when you were in things like Porridge. I think I saw you in uh Whatever Happened to the Lightly Lads the other day. Um and you know, I keep seeing you in all sorts of different what I believe to be classic comedies. You're my hero in um, you know, the Rocky Horror Picture Show, The List Goes Up. I'm really keen to find out what's motivated you over the years from from being being a youngster to to where you are now. I mean, was there always that that motivation to tread forward, be in the limelight when you were younger? It's a very interesting uh question that you're answering.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

And it's a difficult and a complicated question to answer. But I can tell you that the reason I am an actor or stroke now personality, or um, you know, one of those terms that they give to people who've been around for a long time. The reason that I am one of those is that I have to thank my great-auntie Vine, because I was born in Oldham, Southside Manchester, and my mother, my father was from there, and my mother um hated it. She was from uh from down south, she was from Southampton, and so she I was uh born at Christmas time, I uh was uh had pneumonia and I nearly died, apparently. So she moved me out in the back of a Pickford's lorry, um, and um we went and wrapped me in cotton wool, and I still have an aversion to cotton wool to this day. And we came down to Salisbury, and uh my mother and all her family, and they all talked like that. They had a West Country accent, and my father had a northern accent, also he had a cockney accent as well, because he was in London for a time, and then he had a bit of so his was all over the place. And my aunt's great auntie Vi, my mother's auntie Vi, she was a real snob, and she couldn't bear the fact that we all talked with this accent, so she insisted that I have elocution lessons. And I went, uh, when I was at school, I had a wonderful woman who my parents worked hard and paid extra for me to have these lessons, and she taught me how to speak Queen's English, and she must have seen something in me and encouraged me to do theatre, and I had a music teacher as well who encouraged me, and we used to, so I was always in the school productions and what have you, talking now really well and nicely. And then Salisbury had a theatre called the Salisbury Playhouse. So when I got to 16 and a half years old, I thought, what shall I do? I didn't want to go to university. I'm very anti-universities, and even to this day, because I think people should go out and and and do something. I I I was lucky to be able to go to Salisbury rep and on two pounds a week, heavily sponsored by my parents. Um, and I went and saw Reggie Selva, who ran the theatre, and he said you can come for two weeks. And I stayed two years. And that's when I got the bug of being an actor. I had no thoughts. I think if I did have any thoughts when I was at school, there were three things I wanted to be. One was an actor, one was a chef, and one was a vicar. And I've played many, many vicars in my time, including the sex grace vicar in Poldo. And then I love cooking. I used to do all the cooking, and I don't know. Neil, my partner does all the cooking, and I love food, and um I love acting. And I've, you know, I've been I've never really thought about making there was never a time when I thought my career is going to be active. It just happened, you know, by things falling into place. So there was no ambition to be an actor. And I think that's probably the secret of my success. Because when I look back at my CV, which is now 61 years old, I cannot believe the things that I've done and the variety of things. I mean, what other actor can say that they did Porridge, which was a classic series? I did a series called Grant of Ghost for Children, which is still being shown. Uh and I go to, to give you an example, I went to Mansion House in the Lord Mayor's uh house in the city here in London, and it was a white tie do, and it was very grand. And all these grand people who were ex-Lord Mayors of London and possibly new Lord Mayors of London and really judges and what have you, they nearly all who go up and say, Oh, we loved you in Rent Agoast. Well, of course, Rentaghost was the maddest thing ever I've done. And for children, it was 50 years old this year. So that was that wasn't done. That was really like it. Then I've done things like iClaudius, done things like Cold Up, I've done wonderful acting jobs, and then I became a personality. And I got the opportunity to work with Scylla Black on Surprise Surprise. Um, I did I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here. I was watching a little clip of that the other day. What surprise, surprise? Surprise, surprise, views. That was just wonderful. And also we did uh when we we did two series, and the first series we did six live episodes. Well, to do live episodes in those days, and we got 20 million viewers, was extraordinary. I mean, the power that you have. Doing a live show, and things used to go wrong. I remember one day uh Tower of London was supposed to go up and then a boat through, and it it wouldn't open. So we had Scylla went to sing the final song. The producer came to me, Alan Boyd, and said, We're under by nine minutes on a live show. So you've got to go and you've got to bring Scylla back to the sofa and talk to her for nine minutes. So I went over to Scylla at the end of the show, and she looked at me in a aghast because she didn't know we were under. And there she was, thinking it was the end of the show, and I said, No, come on, let's have a chat for nine minutes. And we did, and it was fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

See, the th those stories like that, you are full of. We I remember many quite a few years ago now, we we had a private lunch with a number of other people, and you were a brilliant raconteur. Lots of stories. Your connection with your contemporaries and people in the same business seems to be seems to be somewhat unique to me when I'm looking from the outside in, because you've got you've got people in your life who are appear to be true, true friends. So John Collins comes to mind, Scylla, God bless her, when she was around. You make you make some very strong connections with people.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

But I put I put I've that's a very good thing to say, and I agree with you. And I put that down to my mother and father. My mother and father were very gregarious. They loved people. My mother had a great sense of humour, so did my father. And I think that's what I learned from my parents. I didn't learn anything else other than being a good person. And I think that's what has enabled me to have the most incredible range of friends. And I I I really think I'm lucky and I have that thing to be able to adapt to, to adapt to people. I mean, some people I don't like at all. Don't get me wrong. I mean, I'm not I'm not a, you know, but like everybody. I mean, it but it was an extraordinary experience for the whole of my career. I mean, you know, who else can say they had dinner with Frank Sinatra, for instance, or, you know, uh Beth Midler, and you know, all sorts of extraordinary people, and Ian McKellen comes to mind. Uh, you know, and we like we're going out with um Camilla, she's the editor of the Evening Stand, of the Daily Telegraph, going up, but you know, I met her at a wedding in the south of France. You know, we I I you travel and you meet people and they become friends. And I'm very lucky that I have that group of friends behind me. And I think that's something which is quite special. But I've never ever had the ambition to be other than Christopher Biggins, to be a an actor or a star, whatever you like to call it. It's never occurred to me.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

The other thing about uh emotional intelligence is about self-regulation, of course. And how do you, if you're in the public eye, how do you deliver the same big ins day after day after day, if that makes sense, yeah, in the eyes of the public, whether you're on the radio, TV, film, how do you, and you because we all have bad days, yeah. You're human like the rest of us. How do you self-regulate? How do you how do you deliver the same big ins that the public is ex that expects to see?

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Well, that is today, that is called professionism. And you know, for instance, I uh um we were talking about my agent at one of my agents over there about going on a cruise. Now, people come to me for advice about going on a cruise, and when I'm going on to talk, uh, and I love doing it and I love meeting. Now, people come to me for advice, should they do it? And I say, Do you like people? And they say, no. And I say, What's the point of going? Because you can't stay in your cabin for 24 hours. I mean, it's pointless. You have to get out there, and of course, the moment you go out of your cabin, the best one you meet people. And people nowadays want a selfie, they want you to sign something. But I I just in and Barbara Windsor, you know, who was a great, great friend of mine, she in a way taught how important the public are. And it it they are because they put like uh people say to me, What is the best job you've ever done? Now, we talked about all the different things I've done, and I've had an amazing career, really amazing. Raw Shakespeare company working with Judy Dench double silly. It goes on and on and on. So and things I've forgotten that I've done. But the important thing, what is it, what is the most important job I've ever done? And I may surprise you, and I know I've surprised other people about what it is, and it is the fact that I won, I'm a celebrity, get me out of here. Now, A, I loved doing that pro. I adored every single moment of it. But when you win that, you're winning by the people at home watching you voting for you. Now, that is one of the most important things you could ever, ever do.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

And it opens up a new audience, I think.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Absolutely. But I mean, you know, it's it that rates way above anything else I'd ever done in my career. I mean, there are other things I've done which I've been fantastic, but that to me is the most important job I've ever done. Because at the end of the day, I won it through people voting for me, the public.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Let's go back to the comment, the really interesting comment you made about universities. And do you think the the this reliance on universities, and I don't have a problem with them, do you think we're missing out on a lot of talent because youngsters who are immensely talented, immensely creative, don't have the the uh, let's say the the the qualifications or the or the background to go to universities?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

What annoys me about universities, uh, and I I I take your point, what you just said, but what not really annoys me is that people go and and spend nowadays you had to spend a lot of money to go to university, they spend all that money, and at the end of it, there's no job. So why don't you, if you're interested in plumbing or interested in carpentry, or interested in electricity, why don't you go and learn a trade, you know, which will pay you so much more money than what you might be doing at university. I mean, the number of people who go to university and come out with a 40 or 60,000 pound debt, which somehow they've got to pay off, which I find that is alarming. Really alarming. I mean, of course, when I was at drama school for three two years at Bristolovic Theatre School, I paid nothing. I was on the grant from my local council. Well, those days are gone. And you know, people have to earn a living. Yeah. And you know, it's no good going and getting a fantastic number one or number two degree in a university and then come out and have no work, or get a poorly paid job, or have to go abroad to work. You know, why not? I mean, you know, we've just had a a new uh wet room put in because it leaked, and it took three months because we had a terrible builder. Now, if we had a good builder, they could all it in a week or a month or something, and it would have been, you know, they would have had a lot of money. Yeah. And it annoys me that, you know, there's this, there's this thing. I think Tony Blair really started it, you know, by encouraging everyone to go to university, which is a lovely thought. I mean, it's it's a lovely thought to have gap years, for instance. But very few people can do that, can afford to do that. You know, you have to have rich parents to send you on a gap year for, you know, it could cost money. I mean, I'm all that's why any educational thing is fantastic from the point of view. I mean, I'm all for nobody going straight, having to leave school and going straight into a job. Because I think what they should be able to do is have a period of time off to find themselves and to find the world. And that is what's great about you know certain things in this country. But nowadays it's become impossible to do that.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

You talked about audience and the the lesson that Barbara Windsor you felt that Barbara had given you about the importance of the audience. Do you think that new artists, personalities, whether they're singers, actors, this world of personality that we now live in, do you think that the the new youngsters that are coming through appreciate the audience in the way that you do or your contemporaries did?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Do you know a word I loathe, a new word I loathe beyond measure? It's called influencers. They are to me are rubbish, and they earn huge amounts of money for going around. Like the other day, we on GB News, which I read the newspapers um once a week, once a fortnight. What what happens in in this particular instant in the this what this moment happened was that someone went, it was an influencer, and they influenced to the amount of a huge amount of money. But what they did, they went to a restaurant and they took in a suitcase with them, and they went in and used the restaurant, which people paid a lot of money to go and eat, to change and comment on the foods. Now, that's not a job. And I can understand why the restaurant wants them to go in and say nothing, but they don't want people to go in and change four or five times in a in a in a two hours. If they want to do that, they should go in nine o'clock in the morning when no one's there, or in the afternoon. They're getting paid and getting a free meal. I'm having to pay, and I've got someone flashing a camera next to me. I mean, I've influences I cannot abide. I mean, I think it's it's a whole new way of young people trying to get into the business. People come to me for advice on being an actor. I say, first thing I say, don't do it. And I say the reason I say that is I know so many actors who are brilliant and never get the opportunity to feature, to start, become, really, to really earn a good living. Because acting is down to being at the right place at the right time. Nothing to do with talent. Talent comes secondary. If you're if you're in here in this club, and someone sees you, and they see the look you you're portraying, and they'll think, you know, or you're very handsome or something, they you they think to themselves, that's the person I want in my film. And they could they can teach someone to act in a film nowadays. Stage is different, but you don't have to have the talent, it's just being at the right place at the right time.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

So we're living in a in a very different age now, and you have appeared uh in front of audiences in in over the over the decades, and again I say this with very respect, but if you think about what we what we what we enjoyed in terms of entertainment in the 70s to what we enjoy now, does does this new atmosphere of the I suppose they call it cancel culture now, don't they? Does that concern you at all? I don't think you're ever going to get cancelled, but does that sort of atmosphere in terms of free speech and entertainment and drama and arts, does that concern you?

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Absolutely it concerns me. And I'm thrilled that I'm at the end of my life, as opposed to starting my career again. Because there are so many things you cannot do or cannot say, and it's so confusing. Like I would loathe to be a comedian. And I think it's interesting because I think comedians now they do do television programs and they do you know tours, but but they're not as much. And they have to be very careful what they say. That's why podcasts are so big, because they can say anything they want on a podcast. And that is the way forward. I mean, I it's difficult to make money on a podcast unless you're, you know, the public sees something, and you and like there's two boys on television, but they're not really actors, they're just presenters, and they they're popular, and they can fill the O2 two or three nights, you know, which is a huge amount of people. And because they they like them and they want to hear what they can say, and they can say virtually anything. But on television, you've got to be so careful what you say. I mean, you know, I've had the criticism already. I mean, I did a Doctor at C playing an outrageous homosexual, and I played it with a buffon long wig and very, very camp. And a lot of people said, How dare you? There's no one. People aren't like that. Well, that they're obviously stupid because there are so many queens like that. You know, I mean, now, I mean, for instance, there was a point in it being gay was a problem in television. Uh, because, you know, you you you it was it was something that you really people didn't want to know. Then we gays became more popular, then we had AIDS, and then you were considered to be a murderer, you know, because people were dying. I mean, I lost so many friends during that period, and then it's been reversed, and now really, if you're not gay, you can't get on. I mean, you know, gay is is the because the drag queen situation, which I find uh extraordinary, is huge now. I mean, you know, that's another way of getting on, is to be a drag queen. I mean, it's it it's very interesting how things change, you know, things become popular and unpopular. Um, but you know, it I suppose that's good. It's not what I want to do, though. It's not what I want. I mean, I don't like drag queens playing dames because I think a dame is a man, you know, in a dress. And he's like your my dame has always been, you know, your favorite aunt or your favorite sister or mother. You know, it's she's she's not something wholesome. Something wholesome, not, you know, something highly painted. And you know, listen, I mean, there there are a lot of people at Trag Queens who are very, very funny, but it's it's it's unbelievable talk they talk, you know, and it it's outrageous, and but people like that. I mean, I don't know where it's going to go to. I mean, I I I fear I fear for us all, I think politically, I think that artistically, we're in a worrying time. And certainly if you look at the royal family lab, well, I'm a great royalist, and I I think the Queen Elizabeth I, second, Elizabeth was a great monarch. And I don't know what she thinks now about what's happening. I mean, the the monarchy is under threat. I think that William, I've I've I've always been a bit skeptical about William. But I recently did the Royal Variety Show at the Albert Hall, and we did a pantomime sketch, which was really good, and it went down really well. And afterwards we met them, and uh William came up and said, Well done. And I said, Well, thank you. I said, It's marvelous being back at the Albert Hall because years ago I took your mother to see Liza Minelli, and she was absolutely wonderful, your mother, and an inspiration to everyone. He said, Oh, thank you so much. Quite touched by it. And then we talked about the pantomimes and what have you, and he moved on to the next group. And his wife, Catherine, who I think is the savior of the royal family, I think she is the one that will it could bring it all together, and I think she will. And so she said, Well done. I said, Well, do you take your children to see pantomimes? She said, Well, we've got a theatre where we live, Windsor Castle, the Windsor Theatre there. And she said, I take my children there, and they love it. And then we talked about other things, and then she moved on, and then she came back and she said, As a girl, I played principal boy in a pantomime. So I said, Really? What pantomime was it? She said, Dick Whitdy didn't I said, I've heard about your dick. And she pointed a finger at me, said if you tell anybody that story, I'll kill you. With a laugh. I mean, it was, you know, I thought, yes, she is the same. And I was very impressed with him, funny enough. I mean, I was I adored his mother, uh, who I met several times, um, and I got several letters from her. I mean, she was wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

I mean, I mean, a woman who could connect. Unbelievably. Do you think that if she hadn't elevated to the position that she did, that she would still have that natural connection? And what I mean by that is, you know, if she'd have been married a plumber?

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yes. Do you think she would have had the same? I don't think you can lose that that what she had, which was a natural disposition to the public and to life and enjoying herself. I wrote one of the times I met her many, many times. One of the times I met her was at her brother's uh 30th birthday at his house in the country. It was a I don't know how I got an invitation, but I was there. And uh afterwards there was a band in the hallway of his stately home, and uh Diana was sitting on the stairs, rather forlorn. So I went over and I said, chatted, and I said, uh, would you like to dance? I'd love to dance. So I danced with Diana in the hallway of his house, and we danced for about five minutes, I suppose. And then someone came and tapped me on the shoulder and they said, Can I have a dance? And she danced two other dances, and then she went to bed. And you know, and that I think she would have she would have loved to have stayed up. She I suppose she felt that, you know, what what is I mean, she was so troubled. I mean, I think the one Diana made many, many mistakes in her life, but I think the biggest mistake she made was falling in love with her husband. No one told her that it was a job, that she was there to produce children, heirs to the throne, which she did brilliantly. I mean, I'm a great fan of Harry's. I mean, I I think, you know, things have happened but shouldn't have happened. But, you know, she's produced two great boys who are wonderful. And I think I changed my mind now about William. I think William will make a great king, and I think he's been instrumental in the whole of his uncle's downfall. Not that, you know, I think he's trying to protect the royal family because they're on the verge of, you know, you read in the press nowadays, or television programs, they're, you know, it's a 60-40% for and against, you know, not that the public, of course, but I mean, they can be very strong in their opinions and they can try and get rid of people. And I think it would be a great shame to get rid of them. So I think that's one of the great things this country has is the royal family. They bring in a lot of money and uh they cost a lot of money, I know. But I mean, you know, it it's something which I think is is wonderful to this the spectacle of a band of soldiers marching, all of that is fantastic, and we do it so well here.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

I to be fair as well, Biggs. I mean, you're uh you're uh your your your brand, the Biggins brand, if I may be so bald, you you very much epitomize Britain. Do you not think?

SPEAKER_01 30:07

I haven't really thought about it, but I suppose that's very nice of you to say. I mean, I you know it I never I I do know I've I was never bullied at school. And I've never had anything derogatory said to my face in the whole of my 78 years of living. And that's quite something, I suppose. You know, I mean, I suppose it's been the odd thing in a newspaper someone has written something, uh, which I I I never read reviews of of shows that I've done or anything like that. There could be, you know, people, but I think that's down to jealousy. I think people, you know, are jealousy, you know. I like to think that I am nice to everybody. I mean, you know, taxi drivers, nice to talk to a taxi driver and find their opinions and they they ask things, and you know, it I've been very, very lucky in being able to communicate with people, and I enjoy it. I don't, I don't like, I mean, a lot of actors hide themselves away because they're terrified of the public. They're terrified of making and I think then they become, it becomes a real issue, and it becomes difficult for them to live their lives fully. I mean, I've always, I've never hidden being gay. You know, because I think, and there's a lot of people out there who have hidden the fact that they're gay because they don't want to disappoint their fans. Ice sports fans, acting fans, you know, but there's a have you seen this marvelous um five-part television series about the ice hockey? Oh, everyone's in love with it. Heated heated rivalry. It's fantastic. And it's I cried, you know, it was just and that is everywhere. The fact that those four boys that we grew to love and just to have a joyous time with couldn't come out as they wanted to. And when that when the really butch one who falls in love with the the uh the coffee man, yeah, uh, and then he calls him onto the ice to kiss him. I mean, that was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

You in terms of your uh honesty about your life and living it in the in the in the in the spotlight, do you think that being that honest has has really helped you, has done you a fave? I mean it's certainly not hindered you, is it?

SPEAKER_01 32:37

I think it I think I think the public can see who's honest and who's truthful. And I think that is a really great thing to have, to be able to be like that. And I feel really sorry because I know a lot of people who never come out, and they it it's terrible because they they're living a money, and they I don't think they can then portray. I mean, like for instance, you know, everybody says you have to be gay to play a gay man. Absolute rubbish, you have to just be an actor. What's all let's not forget acting is acting. So people can be anything, but if you are afraid of something, of you know, of showing the public what you really are, then I think that becomes a problem.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

May I ask you a personal question? Yes. You can tell me where to go. Yeah. But um you talk about Neil a lot, yeah, which is great. How does Neil fit into this? He's obviously a very private man, he's not really seen in public with you. I don't see him all that much in public, but he must be, I imagine, a tremendous support for you.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Oh, he's unbelievable. I'm so lucky. I mean, you know, he is, especially now, you know, when I I've had a new vowel put into my heart, I've had a brand new knee put into my knee, I've had a melanoma on this arm. So, you know, I'm as a 78-year-old man, I'm I've had a lot of things happen recently. And to have the support of Neil is fantastic. I mean, Neil loves a party. I mean, we go out to opening nights and things, and he wants to party on. I I now want to go home. I want to, you know, a bit so watch heated rivalry. Yeah, yeah, it's exact exactly, exactly. Much rather do that. But it's it's it's he is wonderful and he is amazing. That and when I first met him, which is 34 years ago, and to be in a relationship with someone for 34 years in a gay relationship is extraordinary. Because nowadays you're lucky if you 34 days, you know, you can have a relationship with another man or a woman with a woman. I mean, it's it's it's fascinating. But uh when I first met him, when we go to a party, I used to leave him. And I would go and meet people, he would then meet people, and he would go home and he'd say, Do you know? I met a duchess tonight who's asked me to go and have lunch with her. And that I thought this is one, he's a nice boy now from Glasgow, from Creanoch. And there he is mixing with these people, and he's you know, he obviously it was very tentative, and he, you know, found it difficult to communicate sometimes. But now, after 34 years, he can talk to anybody, and it's it's it's a bit like I suppose having your own child, you know, you're very proud. I'm very proud of him, and he's he's such fun, and everyone adores him.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

I've loved this conversation, I really have, and uh, I've got to say I very much appreciate your time. I'm trying I've tried not to be too sycophantic throughout the interview because I adore you. And uh for many things, one when we first met in person, I was like, oh, okay, but you are as lovely as you are on screen and very genuine. Just finally, you know, probably every journalist on the sun will ask you about you any plans to retire, what's next, what's going on, or are you just gonna are you gonna be like the Jurisol Bunny and just keep going?

SPEAKER_01 36:13

I don't think any actor retires. I mean, um, I have no fear of death. I'm a Christian, I believe that there is an afterlife. I honestly want to go to bed one night and never wake up. That's my ideal. I don't want to be in pain. I fully sympathize with, you know, going to Switzerland and um uh and what's it called that that Esther Branson is very for what you know um dying. Or is it the dignitas? Yeah, dignitas. I'm very pro-digitas because I don't think anybody in this life should suffer. And I know that thousands, hundreds of thousands of people suffer, and I think it's wrong. I think that, you know, when you when if if you're terminally ill and you're in pain and agony, why would you not if you put a dog down? Why wouldn't you put a human being down? I mean, it's not fair. So I hope that I don't suffer in that way. Uh, I hope I don't die in an accident. Uh, my brother is an ambulance man and he, you know, he goes and picks up young people who have been in a car crash and in a terrible state and die. And you, you know, that's all terrible. I mean, I I I I would have to be a conscientious objector if we went, if we're we were at war and I was liable to go. Or I'd go and entertain the troops, whatever. But I I just don't approve of people who have dying. I can't believe in this day and age that we're at war in so many countries. I mean, it doesn't seem possible. Why can't people talk? You know, and it it it it it it worries me. And I I think we could be on the verge of the end of the world in a way. I think it'd be a good idea if it was the end of the world, because I think there are a lot of people out there not suffering pain for mental things, but suffering, you know, purely not being able to afford things. I mean, how can we have poverty? How can we have to have food banks? How come all these things, you know, just don't seem right?

SPEAKER_00 38:23

You do know that on the on the evening of, God forbid, on the evening of your demise, because it will come to us all, on the BBC News, you do know you will be described as a national treasure, don't you? Christopher Biggins, I love you so much. Thank you so much for talking about.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Oh, thank you very much. I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

You've been listening to a podcast curated and produced by Unmuted.