March Beerness FINAL (Best CA Brewery crowned?)

This week the lads talk about a new Sacramento Brewery, a huge California brewery acquisition and crown the Best Brewery in California? 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

How many times how many times can can you go to a new brewery for the first time? What did you think of what'd you think of backstage brewing? It's kick it off quick. Backstage brewing. Give me a quick synopsis.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

I like the vibe. I don't think it's a go sit and have a beer brewery. I think it's a go and stand and have a beer brewery. I think it's something where the vibe is more you don't sit at the bar. The bar is a place you go to get your cup. It reminds me honestly kind of um like Stoney's. I don't know if you ever went to Stoney's in college. It's like a rock and dive bar thing where they have line dancing and stuff. And it was a very similar vibe, like enclosed, darker, uh, they had cheap beers. I think that the$3 red solo cup of craft lager is a great idea.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

That was a that was an interesting idea, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

I I would have to go and try that while enjoying some live music. And uh it sounds like they're starting with a softer lineup of like every Friday, and it sounds like their ambition is to have more. And uh it was a fun to see the the hoppy brewing logo just randomly on kegs.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

So they were that was supposed to be a new hoppy location that never came to be was fascinating. And uh but yeah, there I I thought the beer it well, yeah, you're not there for the the beer as much as you're there. Not that it was bad beer to be entertaining.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

I've had worse like shelf stable, you know, shelf IPAs. Uh they were they were solid.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

They were solid. I don't uh there's there's no like man, I really wish I had a a can from from backstage right now. But but not but not like a you know that's that not every brewery has to be the best beer you've ever had. It's certain it's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Their focus is more on space for sure, and they have a great space from what I saw. I mean it was packed when we walked in on a what random Saturday afternoon. Um they had some some sports on, a lot of just live live energy. It was uh interesting to see so many people, dogs, and a Sphinx cat, which you don't see every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yep, yep, hairless cat, and uh attached to the real pie company, which I then went back to and got a bunch of I got a chocolate cream pie and a strawberry cream pie and a chicken pot pie. I haven't had their safety pies. It's it's so good. Had it for dinner tonight, the chicken pot pie. Very nice. So good. But back to the stuff great location.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

I like uh I don't go to that part of downtown adjacent Broadway that often, but uh I think it's a great addition to the uh Sacramento space.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Somewhere worth trying out if uh if for no other reason, just to see what the vibe's about. And backstage talking about that and being done talking about it means that we're here talking beer, means that we're here at the Beer Me Cast. Thank you all for listening, jumping in to listen to us talk about craft beer in Sacramento and California and further. My name is Jackson. I am a co-host along with the other co-host, Mark Sanfundino. What's up? How goes the it today?

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Uh, today is a good day. If you saw our story, I managed to uh kick a keg before my barber appointment, which has made me subsequently more sleepy, having a nice relaxing, you know. I did the beard today, so I got a little shave on. Uh just to let you picture my my beautiful beard, since we don't do camera work here. Not yet. Uh not yet. Maybe uh more to come. See our beautiful mugs. But uh I think uh I think we're ready to start with some beers of cast. Need to need to wake up a little here.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah, I'm I'm cracking my beer cast here. Um this being for actually no you go first. I feel like I always go first. You can go first with your beer of cast.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

I I guess then I stopped by our my favorite local tab room cap tab today and uh picked up an assortment. And uh seeing that it is baseball season, I picked up a Sacramento Haze. With uh the Hayes logo in the in the Haze by Flatland Brewing. So yeah, Sacramento Haze, which uh is gonna go in my sports-related mini fridge here, although I'm running out of room. I might have to cut this down. But I have uh some some various sports-related logos from the Sacramento area from various breweries, including movement and uh and claim stakes. So yeah, this will be a nice addition to my random assortment of sports-related branding.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

It looked it looked it looked hazy. It looked very thick.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

It is hazy. Your first uh first taste is a nice like tropical melon, which is kind of what you you expect from a hazy. Um good good mouthfeel. Sits on the palate nice. Good good fruitiness up front. Um just a tad of bitterness, not not too bitter. Decent decent head retention. Overall, um eight point eight point two, eight point two beer. Very good hazy. Um, one of the better ones I've had from Flatland in recent memory. Yeah, I'm enjoying that. That's uh the nice that that melony. I love that melon flavor. Who's melon in it? I don't know if uh I don't see the hops listed on the can, so uh you know, if anyone from Flatland cues into this, I want to know the hop profile on this because I love that that melon. I wonder if it's it might could be Huel Melon, you never know. But uh yeah, good good tropical melon flavor on this one. And uh a very nice haze, no floaties, good good dense haze on it.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Very nice, very nice. I've got by field work the high and fine West Coast lager with some absolutely sick hand art.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

Um That looks like a tattoo you would get.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

It does. It I I was thinking that too, and I was like, man, well at least I can peel the sticker off, but it's not a sticker, it's Ah, you know Pep peeve on art on the can.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Guys, give us give us the stickers. Give us the peelable stickers, because there are some breweries where they peel off and they don't restick. There's some breweries that do like the embedded, and then there's breweries like Humble C who will give you a literal peel option. And I'm like, I've got like ten hazy or ten Humble C stickers around my house now because it was so easy to peel off the can. Like, just do that one little extra marketing step.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Like give people the stickers.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

You're already paying for the sticker, it's going out the door.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

So the Hein Fine artwork, because this is a uh uh audio medium, um, is a skull on like a looks like a checkerboard, um, with fire coming out of its eyes, with a sunset off in the distance, um, but done in a very like in a tattoo style is how I would say, because it's very, very thick, bold artwork. Uh it it could easily translate into like a an ice piece. Um but the beer itself, we're here for the beer. And it's a West Coast Lager, it's what is it? 4.2%. This is a light, light baby. And it is crisp, clean, nothing crazy. It says on the can lager brewed with barley, rice, hops, water, and yeast.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

Like it's so rice, so a little more macro in style, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Um, but it doesn't get that it it doesn't have that um that piss taste that you know uh American.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

I think that comes from corn.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

I think it I don't think it I think it comes from the combination of the Pilsner malt and rice, because the corn, like in a cream ale, doesn't have any of that. It just is smooth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Because I thought I thought Budweiser, for example, used corn, not rice, or am I mistaken?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Budweiser uses rice.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Okay. Maybe I'm tripping. Trying to remember something I've had with corn in it. Cream ale? It's not a cream ale.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

But it tastes fine. It's um again, it's crisp, it's clean, it is at 4.2% it's very crushable.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Yeah. Which what you want from a lager typically.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

But it's uh man. Which isn't bad. No.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

I just think that um even in relation to like their other loggers, this one doesn't really stand out as much, because they have a quite a bit of lager from my experience. I think I actually had the the Bailey. Yeah, I mean it it's uh Patrick Bailey branded one recently, and that was good.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

The thing is, it's good, you know, but it's not like great. This tastes like it would be the You know what this tastes a lot like? Let me say again. This tastes a lot like the Kirkland lager. The Costco Kirkland lager. A little bit more hot bitterness, just a little bit more. That's probably where the West Coast of it all comes into play. A little bit more hot bitterness. But it really tastes a lot like the the Kirkland Costco lager, which is made by Deschutes. Um yeah, so I mean I I would I would honestly say uh save however much money I spent on this and go get uh the Costco beer. Um seven out of ten. Not bad, but uh yeah, I I don't need uh to go and buy another one.

SPEAKER_03 10:05

Uh but now that we've talked about beer go into some uh some some topics of the week, a couple little points in note, and then move on to fire them off our bracket. So first uh first big topic in the beer world. Um I don't know if we mentioned the Twenty First Amendment acquisition last time, but talking about talking about large breweries in California that were mainstays. Um it was some East Coast, I'd have to double check. But anyway, Twenty First Amendment's brand and distribution are being taken over, and the brand will continue, the Heller High Watermelon. Um a couple of the others, I did no confirmation on the full lineup yet, but it sounds like uh the hospitality locations will close, as they already have, but it sounds like the beer itself will go on in brand and distribution. Um I'm curious to see how the quality maintains in an acquisition like this. Um although the next acquisition we're gonna talk about, I am not too worried about the quality, because you have Stonebrewing, who at one point apparently was taken over by Sapporo. 2022 I feel like we heard about, but just kind of like it felt like the Laganinus Heineken by out, right? Like they're still doing their thing. It's just under a bigger umbrella now. Which is different than how I felt about it. But uh now, it sounds like both their hospitality locations, uh, I believe their Escondido and Liberty Park, as well as the Brewing and Branding is going to be taken over by Firestone Walker and Duvel USA. So an interesting partnership. You have these these macro brands now becoming basically large distribution brands. These these famous pioneers of craft beer. I mean, Stone Brewing is is akin to Sierra Nevada, I'd say, in terms of you know, their contribution to the West Coast IPA, the hot bitter craze, like bringing craft beer's IPA identity to its full form, you know, at its circa.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Laid the groundwork for sure for for what hoppy beer turned into in California.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

They literally have a beer called Arrogant Bastard. It was they were literally unapologetic in their use of hops and their style of beer.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

And it's interesting because, yeah, the um, you know, Firestones can be brewing uh Stone's beer here on the West Coast out of their large location. Um same location that will now be brewing Trumor. Um on the East Coast, because Stone had a East Coast side brewing um that's now going to that's that's still gonna be brewing um uh I don't I I'm pretty sure that part wasn't bought out by Firestone. If I'm not mistaken, Sapporo still owns that and it's gonna be used for brewing uh Japanese beers. A la Jackrabbit brewing for uh Anobi. Or yeah, I think that's the name of the brewery here in um Sacramento, but they're not gonna be bringing stone anymore on the on these coasts. It's gonna be strictly for supporting.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Um and is the the hospitality side of things, do you know? I don't know how how many how much detail we have on that, but I'm wondering if it's the hospitality side.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I don't know if I didn't know anything about that, but I know that yeah, the the stone escondido, that's where they brewed at, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:44

Yeah, and it was um a large restaurant, brewery situation.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

The brewing operations are gonna cease there, but I know that they haven't completely done away with all the hospitality in SoCal for stone specific, but um it's still pretty early on, so we'll see exactly how that shakes up. But from what I understand, there's still gonna be a place you can go that's called stone brewing and get stone beer.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

But how will that stonewalker?

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah, how will that look in a year? Will it be still just stone or will they have some Firestone in there? Um I think it's a I it's it's a move that I don't think I would have ever predicted in 2020 that Firestone Walker would take over stone, like it it or hell for sure ten years ago. Can you imagine if someone in 2016 was like, Firestone Walker's gonna buy stone, you'd be like, what are you talking about? Stone is ten times the size of Firestone Walker, what do you what do you mean? Um it's it's it's it's it's it's a wild time um in the industry right now with uh acquisitions and and closings and openings and the the way things are shaking around and landing.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

It's yeah, and for me it's it's I I I see the vision, right? All these beers are great beers, but we cannot sustain the volume anymore. So you have this consolidation where you're still brewing all these brands and whatnot, but now you're you're basically mixing production capacity and or like you said, p possibly using production capacity for other larger, you know, macro loggers to it it it's an interesting consolidation because I I saw an article recently talking about how these major distilleries and these liquor importers are sitting on lakes of hard alcohol because you know even that sector is hurting. So you you have this beer beer supply, craft beer supply, doesn't last on shelves like hard alcohol does. You can't just keep producing at a level that's not moving off of the shelf. And uh we had these breweries expand to max capacity, and now that capacity is shrinking, were you just gonna leave empty for mentors? Or like that's wasted space, that's wasted capacity.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, and if you can if you have the capital to take over a brand that's still selling enough to fill in that void of of what maybe you're not. That's a that's a huge thing. Um what I think is really fascinating, which I again I wasn't complete I don't think it really registered with me that Saporo bought out Stone in 2022.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

But I think it was because they they didn't just take it all over, right? I feel like they they purchased it, but it was still ran independently, kind of like the Lagonitas Heineken situation. Whereas Heineken is now 100% owns Lagonitas, but it's it's not Heineken producing Lagonitas, it's Lagonitas is a a branch of the company, essentially, right? But from the business I feel like that was more this more the the makeup.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

When it came to distribution of craft beer and so cow, stone was a distributor. Yeah, which is crazy. I I don't know if that ceased with Sapporo or if now it's ceasing with Firestone Walker, or if Firestone Walker just acquired an ability to distribute through whatever channels Stone was because that that's something that I haven't heard anyone talk about or seen any anything um referencing. For for breweries like Three Weavers and smaller breweries of SoCal, they were getting moved to to further distances within SoCal and into Central Cal, maybe even neighboring states a little bit, but some of these breweries wouldn't have been able to maintain without Stone distributing their beer around SoCal. And it's it's because they weren't charging as much for their distribution um as much as uh you know AMMBEV and all the all the big guys were gonna do. Um so yeah, I'm I'm really fascinated to know what happened or is happening with that. Because that that's not just gonna change Stone and Firestone, that's gonna change however many breweries are being distributed to them.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

You know, if if Sapporo, for example, owned it and wanted to push their stuff, you know, to the front of the line and didn't maybe care about things, I that's that's a great point. I don't know the level of uh of care that Firestone Walker has in that. Are they basically taking over this role as the craft beer distributor in the area, the the kind of go-to that it has been for many breweries?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

I mean when you think of Firestone Walker's location too, um central California versus so a little bit more central off the 101 with a pretty direct route over to five. Um it's a pretty good spot to be located for uh distributing. Central distribution. Um but interesting but Firestone Walker, um yeah, uh a qu an interesting move. And I really I really I obviously I've said before in the podcast I really really like Firestonewalker, so seeing them uh make moves that show that they're not about to close, you know. Yeah. Love to see it. Um we're gonna be able to drink a lot of uh Wookie Jacks in the future and uh what have you. Uh anything else you want to talk about um on the front of acquisitions in craft beer before we get into our bracket? Because I have one.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

Well, I mean for me I think it's it's interesting, right? Because with all this kind of bailing out that's happening, are are the pioneers of the industry just getting burnt out? I mean, we saw that even at the level of device, right? The owner was just kind of done with it. I mean, this is an industry that I don't believe uh offers much in the way of, say, work-life balance until you get to that level of, you know, gross ability to make money without trying or having people making the money for you. But these these owners, you're I think it was um Coach Cox, uh, I believe was the Firestone Walker founder, or one of them.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

If I'm remembering. And uh are are they just ready for retirement and kind of washing their hands of the responsibility and moving on to their next phases? Are we gonna see maybe this revolution of kind of young, hungry brewers that operate in smaller capacities, like the the brewer that's potentially taking over the old device location? Are we gonna see kind of a return to microbrewing while the larger ones have distribution and brand name recognition? I I'm curious to see what the landscape looks like in ten years.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

I think what's gonna happen is there's gonna be kind of like a separ kind of like a separation. So I feel like if you put water, oil, and um let's say uh alcohol. Something that's the lightest of the three, right? Because those have all so what what had happened is they all got thrown in, those being the microbreweries, the medium-sized craft breweries, and then the larger craft craft breweries. And they were all put into a to a vessel and shaken, and they were all kind of like congealed together and kind of bleeding together, and you could you could have a small brewery that was able to distribute far. You were able to have a a big brewery, have a really good presence in a neighborhood and feel that like Like that small place, but really they're they're actually selling to Costco. Um you're not gonna have that anymore. You're gonna have the small Microcraft Brewery, so let's say balance opens and they they they stay small. You'll have like these new openings of small neighborhood spots. Um I'll even throw addies into that because they really do cater to that neighborhood without uh distribu distribution. And then you've got the the medium steps, you've got your your new glories and um I'd argue uh you know uh Moxa uh they they they make a good amount, but they they don't distribute as crazy, but they get their beer out there. And you got your big boys like Firestone Walker Sue Nevada. I think it's gonna become more structured. You're gonna have three tiers. And I think it's gonna be it's gonna come down to the ones that the that are the smaller guys are gonna be able to find their niche fan, their niche group that they can nerd out about beer. You know, you're gonna have your your beer tenders be able to talk to the to the regulars at times about you know the type of uh hops they've used in each of the beer and the type of uh whatever just random nerdy stuff. You're gonna have the your your beer nerdy small breweries, you're gonna have some medium breweries, and then you're gonna have your some big breweries. But it's gonna I feel like it's gonna even out eventually. Until it gets there though, we're gonna have we're gonna have some weird stuff.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

We're gonna have some clothes and after some more restructuring, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Um but I'm sure we'll talk more about that in coming weeks and years as we go through it. Um I before we move on to the bracket, I want to bring up that next week actually starting this week, this Friday, is Sacramento Craft Beer Week from this Friday to next Friday. For reminding me, because we did talk about it pre uh what is my cat doing back there? He's breaking. We're talking about before the podcast, and I I just found my craft beer passport, my Sacramento passport.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

I and uh I think mine is in my center console, and I don't think I've touched it since 2018.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

So this one was um given to me. This is the June 2019 edition.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

And I don't want is Delta Born even on that one?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Uh I want to go through this with you next week.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

Oh, I will try and find mine. When we're talking about I have to have it somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

When we're talking about uh Sacramento Craft Beer Week, we need to go over these old um books because let me let me give a uh a quick little um taster of what's coming. Um glimpse into the past breweries the brewery's under construction as of June 2019 in uh Sacramento. Touchstone. Still still around? Uh fair.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Well that wow, they went that far back?

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Good construction as of 2019. We need to try that. I feel bad that I still have not touched touchdown.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

You've had a beer from them, but yeah. Because I brought I when we but yeah, we but we haven't done their justice. Um which uh brings me to another thing before we get to the bracket. Logoff was under construction.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Uh good brewery.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

I enjoy logoff because Hungry Pecker was under construction.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Yeah, they've come and gone. They've come and gone.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Um and then Uncle Uncle Charlie's in Folsom, which I don't know much about. Um and also one that has gone under the radar for me, I only realized um I maybe we've brought it up before, but I really Fountainhead Brewing just had their tenth year anniversary. They're they're still they're still around. They're still around. I've never been to a brewery.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

I went once, and this was back in college, and it kind of fits that Oak Park brewing kind of New Helvetia style of brewery where it is very local. That is a neighborhood spot, just like maybe your neighborhood tap room or your neighborhood dive bar. Like that is the vibe I got, and I feel like they have what Track 7 originally had in Curtis Park. It's just across the tracks from that, from what I understand.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

It's cl it's close, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

It's it's very like I walk my dog over to the brewery from my memory. Um would definitely be one worth revisiting.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah, I w I want to go get a beer there. Neighborhood.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah. Neighborhood spots are important. That's what craft beer not should be per se, or you know, to put it in a box, but it needs to have a section. Yeah, if you have a community that supports you and you support them, that's a great business model, and if you brew good beer along the way, that's all the better.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah. No, so I I want to go there. Um maybe I'll figure something out before next week. But next week, Sacramento Craft Beer will talk about it, go through our passports, maybe we'll have a report in Fountainhead, maybe we won't. Um, but we have our bracket to to finish, the March Madness bracket that we are in April 20th, 22nd, still talking about. Uh we've narrowed down the California breweries from 64 to 32, and today we're naming a winner. We're gonna we're gonna fucking do it. What we've got is we have Urban Roots vs. Lagonitas, Bear Bottle vs. Fieldwork, Bike Dog vs. Faction, Humble Sea vs. Burning Barrel, Sarah Nevada vs. Sudwork, Henhouse vs. Cellarmaker, Altamont vs. Geist House, Russian River vs. Ghost Town, and that was the NorCal. On the SoCal side, the brewery slash offshoot versus Gamecraft, Burgeon versus Ail Smith, Belching Beaver versus Alvarado Street, Duckfoot vs. Mission Brew Despol vs. Modern Times, Lost Abbey vs. Tioga Sequoia, Society Brewing versus Firestone, Walker, Full Circle versus Monkish. We've got some matchups here. Do you want to start SoCal or NoCal?

SPEAKER_03 28:24

I mean, I feel like we can start SoCal. I think it's a bit little quicker based just kind of on our, you know, not super in depth knowledge. Um I mean, just off rip.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

The brewery slash offshoot versus gamecraft is not a competition, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

No. Uh I love Gamecraft. They're a very cool location, but the sheer variety and quality that the brewery slash offshoot has had over the years. Uh talk about like pioneers and subscription-based beer services. It's gotta be the brewery.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Yeah. Yeah, the brewery offshoot. Um one of my uh I I just got moved to a new team at work. Um, and I was talking to one of my team members about uh craft beer, and he was like, Oh man, my favorite brewery is the brewery. I was like, oh cool, do you like offshoot as well? He was like, What's that? I'm like, hey, to be fair, not everyone's nerdy. I realize that now. Um anyway. Uh next we've got Birgeon versus Ail Smith.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

But I see you I don't know what Yeah, you know, we got uh we got a lot of bracket to get through.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah, I think I might grab one too.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Do you mind talking about whatever you're picking and then I'll so I have uh a little bit uh leftover from the 420 series of you know beer, beer uh advertising here. We have Altamont's gnarly buds IPA. We have Walk the Dank Double Dry Hopped West Coast IPA from Humble Sea, and then uh a little bit of a offshoot here with the Rewaka Double Dry Hopped Lager from Moonlight Brewing, just kind of a random grab. Moonlight does some fun loggers, and uh always worth a little pickup. But since I'm on a bit of a haze kick, I think I'm gonna go with the collaboration between Altamont and Shred Beerco. Shred Beerco having opened after uh one of the owners from Slice, I believe, split off. So, uh yeah, Slice and Shred. But uh, I mean, you you in my in my eyes, you can't go wrong with an Ultimate collab, especially when it's with the brewery of the quality of Shred. So uh we're gonna go with the Gnarly Buds.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Gnarly Buds, alright.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Yeah, a little 420 branding, which is always fun in the beer world here.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

This one was walking back in with my my beer. Um uh for those uh that want to know the sausage gets made a little bit, there's um we we we communicate over Discord with our our cameras on, and uh that way we can have like a reaction and see our our our beer and stuff. Anyway. Facial expressions are important. I looked in and I saw an empty chair and I was like, this motherfucker really left like while I said, hey, hold it down really quick while I grab a beer. And then I realized it was my own chair.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

Um so uh different rooms, different different different lighting, different hues. Uh person are similar in color.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Yeah, yeah. Um so I don't know. I'm just anyway. Uh but uh I'll let you talk about your beer, but let me say what I got first and then we'll go. Frosted Whiskers by New Glory. Mm, good beer. And has Charlie the Cat. Good beer better go. Um it's uh it's a West Coast double IPA, though when I got it they said it was like when I had when I had it on tap, and I talked about already, they call it a cold. West Coast Cold IPA. I guess they took it off on the I don't know. Um R works, yeah. Next level. Charlie's great. Met the cat. Uh but how's your beer?

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Oh man, the um gnarly buds does it justice. This is a dank, like sticky the way that a good uh good weed smells is how this tastes. It's got Simcoe, Nelson, Idaho 7 cryo, and Columbus cryo, which I don't think I've seen before. But um, damn, yeah, this is a this is a dank beer. I don't you know you don't you that word gets thrown around a lot, but this is a dank dank beer.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

What's your rating?

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Oh god, that's that's gotta be up at like the nine, nine point one range. That is one of the better like terpene kind of tasting beers I've had. And I think it's probably due to the double cryo edition there with the Idaho 7 and the Columbus. Well that this is a good beer. God damn, I'm gonna have to get more of this. So yeah, Shred Brewing and Altamont Collab. Uh you guys knocked it out of the park with this one.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Frosted whiskers. Bitter. Like it this is hot bitterness. This is like bitter with a with a B. Like a it hits.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Like we're talking the stone brewing bitter, like classic.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

It's West West Coast traditional bitter. Nice. Um it it took me by surprise at at first, like how just it hits. Um it has uh Rawaka, Amarillo, and Nelson or Amarillo, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Um I say amarillo, but that's because we're in California.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Yeah. Uh but it's um I I you know, I just might not be in the mood for this itter.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

You're also drinking it out of a Pilsner glass. You're you're you're doing some craft beer faux pawing right now, alright.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Hey, this is the this is the Addies Um Oktoberfest glass from Lager. A year ago? Lager glass from a year ago.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

It's too skinny, man. It's basically a tulip. What are we doing here with the IPA?

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Look at it, though. It's so nice.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

But we went to drink beer better.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

You gotta drink the beer better. If I were gonna do a if I were gonna do a drink beer better class, this is no shade to my boy. Um, but the best class to drink your beer out of is the one you got.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

That is fair. Look at that look at it is a pretty glass.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Some nice head. Some nice head. Anyway, all right.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

I'm definitely in a hazy IPA mood. So uh that being said.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Burgeon versus L Smith. I think L Smith takes this.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

A hundred percent. Uh Burgeon, great hazy IPAs. Uh brewery I would love to visit in person. I've had many of their beers, have not had the pleasure of visiting their locale.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

That's probably something we talk about. Breweries that we want to visit the most that we haven't, but we've had a lot of good beer from.

SPEAKER_03 35:21

True. Good segment. Pin that. Um but yeah, Burgeon's good. AilSmith, I mean, Ail Smith just they're old they're old stock ales, they're they're various barrel-aged stouts with I mean the Vietnamese speedway. Uh, you talk about your 394 Big Pod race supporting Great Pale Ale.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

They said big pod race supporter, I was like, what?

SPEAKER_03 35:47

No, well, no, so they they are San Diego Brewery they they're big pod race supporters, and they have a uh Pale.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

I know you're saying Podrays, I thought you said pod race, like pod racing from Star Wars. Being pod race supporter, I'm like, I do believe they host Star Wars nights, actually.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

I think I've seen advertisements for that. Uh as an aside. Also, in their brewery, they have a speakeasy room which has a password tied to, you know, them your you following their feeds or whatnot. Uh fun fact. So check out the socials if you're interested in and you're in San Diego. Um Gale Smith, phenomenal location.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Uh just um, I think I think they go forward. Um this next one. Um Belching Beaver vs. Alvarado Street, and for me, this this this sucks. This sucks have to decide one.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

I'm gonna let you have your internal dilemma, because for me they're both pretty similar, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

They that's the thing. They are free s they they they are fairly similar. So Belching Beaver, they always have like every beer I've had by Belching Beaver for the most part's just been been good, which is which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

I've been to peanut butter stouts iconic, if you like.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Great food, but of course, they don't want beer, but their beer is nice and creep. Um Alvarado Street. I've had I've been to their brewery so many times in in Monterey, and one of my favorite stouts of all time, uh I I I have next to me at all times, next to me on my desk, is the chop and scrape. It's just such a good imperial stout, age stout. Um with vanilla vanilla beans and cocoa nibs, and it's just so so incredible. It's the best version of that type of beer I've ever had. And so it makes me think, along with all the great IPAs they have, the Alvarado Alvarado Street has the uh I can't even remember the name of it, but they have these IP this IPA series that has these uh flamingos as the logo. And they have a single, double, and triple, and depending on which one you get, it's a different colored can. I can't believe I can't think of the name of it right now. Um so I I I immediately think Alvarado Street ekes it out because I can think of so many different styles that I like from them. But then Belching Beaver has the collabs with Deftones, one of my favorite bands of all time. And Phantom Bride is a good beer.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Might Thai.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

The Mai Thai, uh, yeah, that's the Alvarado Street IPAs. Yep. Phenomenal IPAs. So good. Um I think I have to give to Alvarado Street, but Belching Beaver, the Phantom Bride, is is great. They're the which I think I drink on the no, I didn't drink on the cast, but the Imperial Phantom Bride is trash, hot garbage. So because I can think of a bad beer from Belching Beaver, I gotta say Alvarado Street. Um I hate to knock one down, but uh because I think Belching Beaver has better hazes overall from Alvarado Street, but overall Alvarado's better.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

Alright, Alvarado takes it. We are going to use that there, and now uh these are two breweries I am very familiar with in Duckfoot and Mission.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

You do what I did with the last two.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Yeah. Duckfoot Brewing, uh, just just one of those logo concepts that you're like, yes, this works. I have uh not one, but two Duckfoot brewing shirts where it's just a Godzilla-sized duck stomping on buildings. And it's a kaiju duck. Yeah, at the end of the day, what's more fun than a giant duck? Also, their beer is very good. Uh they've got a good puther of beer on tap any given day you go. Uh Mission Brewery, I will say, one of the cooler tap rooms you can go to. I forget the former tenants, but there are large like silo-shaped holes into the ceiling. It's a very cool location. They're very great at supporting their local home brewers, but when we're talking about beer preferences, I gotta go with the duckfoot. But uh definitely visit both um two great San Diego breweries.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Works for me. Uh by the way, uh Moonrager just hit their 10-year anniversary.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

Wow. Ten years of Yojo? Yeah. Ten years of YoJo. Yo. I mean, Yojo is uh is just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Uh but but anyway, not to get sidetracked. Dust Bowl versus Modern Times. I have to say modern times.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Yes, I do enjoy Dust Bowl. They do a lot of fun things. They've got some good big heavy beers, um, but modern times does uh beer and then some. I mean their coffee is also awesome. Have you had those beer?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Well, just say if we're just doing beer. Even then, but modern times is better.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

But um I I do like that Dust Bowl, uh Dust Bowl and Turlock is a phenomenal just break if you're going from SoCal to NorCal and you're you need a late lunch or just a regular lunch, depending on what time you leave SoCal. Uh definite, definite stop off the 99. That's my favorite location. It's not their downtown, but they're a slightly newer big barn location, which you can see from the freeway. Stop there, get beer, get food. Um, but that being said, the from a beer standpoint, I mean modern times, just so many good beers over the years.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Delicious stuff. And I've been to one of their locations, can't remember where, but uh uh yeah, I went to one in Oregon, um, but it's very, very good, very good brewery. Um Lost Abbey versus Tyoga Sequoia.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Um both very interesting breweries. Um I will say Tioga Sequoia is underrated. Um Fresno has actually a very solid craft beer scene. The last I I had visited, some some fun beer there. Um that being said, uh Lost Abbey between the Belgians and the other styles they have, uh a better selection and also I'd say a better quality control. Just a little bit more memorable beer, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

You have to agree. I I really like Tayo Sequoia, but yeah. Alright, we got Society vs. Firestone Walker. I am 1,000% at Firestone Walker, but that's my I'm gonna make my case for Society, where Society is one of those rare breweries that appreciates craft beer in such a way that they make two boards.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

One for more American stylings, and then one for more traditional Belgian stylings. I mean, their their Belgians are on par with the likes of you know your your Russian River, um the Belgians Abbey themselves. Yeah. Um just phenomenal beers. I will say uh the one part that has fallen short, just in my knowledge, would be the Barrel program, which is where I think First and Walker surpasses them. In a in a Belgian contest, I'm taking society, but this is all of their beer. And uh 805.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

I know it's not an exciting beer, but it is a solid beer that is brewed the same way over and over and over and over again, which is difficult to do. And it's delicious, but they also do that with so many beers. Yeah, I mean, but Budweiser, I mean, they they fucking use robots and shit.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

Um society I would take for Belgians any day of the week, however, Firestone Walker has Parabola, Sukuba, just just phenomenal barrel aging. And in my mind, if you can have a successful repeatable barrel program, yeah. I will take that that Tsukuba is is the thing that I would say probably solidified my love. of bear ledge beers. I think it was the 2015 specifically.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

Not to be nerdy. 11 years ago. Firestone Walker goes forward. Full circle versus monkish. I I I would say monkish, but again. Monkish.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Full circle, super cool Fresno location. Go there. Monkish. Better beers overall.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Well we did it. We did the the SoCal down to uh their final eight. We've got the brewery slash off shoot versus Ail Smith, Alvarado Street versus Duckfoot. Modern Times versus Lost Ivy. Firestone Walker versus Monkish but we gotta go to NorCal. We gotta we we gotta figure out if Urban Roots is going forward or if Loganitas is going forward.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

I know that you're biased I mean I had a love of Loganitas long before Urban Roots. I mean their their espresso stout 22 ounce bombers were a go-to total one grab for me for a very long time. Their Waldos a phenomenal strong IPA release uh undercover shutdown investigation ale little something something I mean I can go on and on with Loganitas did you get married at Loganitas?

SPEAKER_00 45:23

I did not. See and the thing is Herbert he did. But no I mean I I I agree Loganitas has a lot of good peers but I think Herbernutes also does and I've I've recently been there well in the last month it's might be it's the second most visited brewery for me.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

I've been there like four the the kind of straw for me is that with all those things I mentioned for Lagonitas you just don't see on shelves anymore. I don't know if it's a lack of the them brewing those things since Heineken took over if it's more just a consolidation or if they keep there. I know every time I go in person they've got phenomenal smaller batch things on tap but uh they've become less accessible for me and a little bit more you know distribution let's keep it simple. I mean a little something good and you can still find it I still get a little something from a little I get I get a little something. But uh yeah Urban Roots I mean they're they're kind of that epitome of you know local variety quality they c they kind of hit all the marks every time you go in. And uh if I'm thinking downtown Sacramento breweries I there's not another one that I kind of default to more than Urban Roots. They're just that damn good they are and they offer such a great variety and quality and then their food is so good.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Their food is just dude it's it's you don't have to tell me I ate brisket my entire honeymoon the tri-tip's better than their brisket I think unfortunately I'd have to taste both but their brisket is unmatched for me. I had their their brisket last and the time before that I got the tri-tip and the brisket was maybe I'm not a brisket man it was too dry I I've never had a dry brisket from them.

SPEAKER_03 47:24

Maybe you got a maybe you got an end of the day batch or something D R Y dry.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Um still delicious but like too dry. Um next we got bear bottle versus fieldwork ah this is tough because these are a kind of similar mana brewery you have multiple locations throughout Northern California Central California you have you know really good IPAs um however I think the slight edge has to go to fieldwork because of their approach to variety and barrel aging I mean field work I I don't even have to tell you how good the Vikings Lament is um it is it is it is fan fantabulous it is good and then so the Vikings Lament comes out at like around the same time as the other what's the other one that they do as well it's not the it's a good conduct. Good conduct so those two are like the one two punch I I don't like the good conduct as much but it's still a little too much maple for me but it's a still phenomenal beer.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

A beer that I think is underrated from field work is the Eliza the New Orleans style coffee stout they do is such a phenomenal beer.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Eliza kiss um field work being Berkeley versus bear bottle San Francisco it's an interesting Bay Area matchup but I I gotta agree field work I think fix it.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

I think that bear bottle does one of my favorite things in all of craft beer in that they put the five gallon recipe on every can. I mean I I have some save that one day I plan to recreate because literally all you gotta do is rip the sticker off and you've got a fucking brew recipe. I mean obviously not down to the specifics and the conditions but like they're not talking about the pH the essence I actually pH might be on there. Really? I'd have to check I'd have to check that is wild if so that it is it is a relatively detailed listing. I mean the the percent of hops everything it it's it is impressive because you have to print that label you have to write down that recipe you have to do all those steps and then they serve it to you and it's delicious. And they're at my local Whole Foods all the time that being said field work does get the edge because they have a larger variety um and just just phenomenal quality.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Now as we've said before any brewery that we kick off at this point or even at you know in the last episode um this is our short list of best breweries in California. You won't go wrong for the most part unless we specifically say you're gonna go wrong going here which I don't think we I don't think we've said that. So like both of these are great it's just we gotta we gotta let the cream rise.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

Next bike dog versus faction I would have been I might have might have said faction last week they do a lot of cool things um I'd say beer quality they're probably pretty similar um although I think bike dog has the edge in the fact that their their basic day-to-day beers are just so well done. I mean when it comes to bike dog I I quality's never an issue um I think a faction for me I I don't picture a single beer that I've m remembered more than the phenomenal view from their uh Alameda location that oversees the San Francisco skyline it is beautiful um it it's a beautiful location to have beer that being said for me the location is a little bit more memorable than the beer and with Bike Dog that's not the case. Bike dog the beers are very memorable.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

The biggest craft brewery in Sacramento with three locations three taproom locations and we were we were just there if you if you follow uh beer me cast on Instagram which you should it's at beer me cast um you would know that we're there but or if you follow me on Instagram I guess the milk stout it's it's still hits so good it's you you you can't go wrong when you order the milk stout from Bike Dog. It's so good. And I mean even even though maybe they don't get up to the most creative things anymore or ever um the Bavaris is long gone. Uh yeah they're just they're just a good solid brewery and uh I I'm gonna be very interested to see how far they go. Next Humble C vs Burning Barrel I know my answer This is hard to I think I think you know my answer, right?

SPEAKER_03 52:24

Um actually I I don't know do we want to do uh I'm I'm gonna do some internal rumblings real quick but um my my short answer I think I have because for me these are two extremely similar breweries but there is one I I will find that I have a uh affinity for shall we one two three yeah it's three two one and not one two three three two two one humble one I will see okay yeah yeah it's it's close um for me they both do a phenomenal IPA uh you know uh burning barrel if we wanted to talk about you know adjunct smoothie sours they'd probably take the cake however and this is might be personal bias playing a role we're not big smoothie sour drinkers oh no there's nothing I hate more than these new Instagram reels of people pouring out the latest smoothie sours that are so thick that they just look like melted ice cream dude it's I will say though I will say burning barrels smoothing sours outside of a select few that I've had which are real fucking thick uh do a good job with flavor profiling. I think Burning Barrel has a phenomenal profile these modes no but the balance I mean you look at their combinations I will say that Burning Barrel does very creative combinations. They also do things such as like a Belizean chili beer which is super cool.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

However I I I will yuck I won't yuck anyone's yum and you're gonna yuck my yum here. But Burning Barrel did make one of the best beers I've ever had which was a uh brown sour with pickle juice added and I just don't like pickle juice so that's that's just this brown sour with pickle juice it was the pickleback beer it was so good dude I got like three crowlers of it all you know we're I think we're talking ourselves in the burning barrel. It was a barrel age sour brown with with uh with pickle juice added it was so good you know you know I barrel sweetness saltiness of and vinegariness of the the pickle salt the sourness just to round it all together because it was a sour I think recency bias is uh has might have might have played a role in my humble seabring I I you know I think burning barrel just hit a buzzer beater because you talk about their barrel aged program phenomenal barrel aged stout you you talk about the fact that they have these crazy combinations and yes they might miss on occasion but they throw up these shots and sometimes it is just a beautiful basket. I mean we're talking yeah we gotta we gotta put burning barrel through we we thought they were out but uh yeah zero's on the clock actually I just I I was blinded by the smoothie sour and then I was like wait blinded by the smoothie sour. But then you said IPA and I was like oh that's right they do get good ideas. And then I thought what why did I ever like them? Oh they put a phenomenal a phenomenal logger okay burning barrel beer wow I can't believe I can't what other buzzer beater what other conver biased like quick one do we do that should have been the other anyway uh burning barrel yeah I gotta go damn I gotta go honestly I work like five minutes from it.

SPEAKER_03 56:14

I've been I've been defended by the recent humble sea the recent humble sea love I had because their anniversary beers were just so fire and I pick up a burn uh humble sea beer every time I go. However Burning Barrel Burning Barrel is probably the brewery I visit top three in Sacramento for personal just visitation purposes. Uh surprisingly yeah every time you know I'm on a solo run to Costco on Rancho and I got some time to stop for a beer or we my wife and I drop our daughter off at grandma's house. I guess that is the best Costco for you to go to huh oh dude it's well not the best one but their lines for gas best in the best in the area. Yeah that only time I waited in line for gas at that Costco was Easter. I go to that Costco for lunch every once in a while good Costco good Costco um great beer honestly I think we got distracted by the smoothie sours and the IPAs and forgot how much great beer they actually produce.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

They're not a one trick pony they are a there's a lot of tricks in that bag that that pony not its first rodeo by the way not not my first rodeo like you're supposed to know exactly how shit goes by the second row I I got I I would have to go to at least three four rodeos I don't know uh Sierra Nevada versus Sudwork sorry Sudwork um I love Sudwork cool location great end to one of the bigger beer trips we've ever taken in our lives oh that was that was the probably the only brewery that could have capped off that that beer trip of put seven breweries in one day something along that line can can it I remember it was seven because we uh what was the first brewery of the day did we start we we headed straight to Russian River then we did Fog Belt what was the random one up Loganitas then we did um this one that's probably gone now but it was it was in like the random like area did a couple of those we did a couple random North Bay like small mom and pop places and um then we did the dock store then we did heretic on we did heretic on the way back um still technically exists they're under a different brand but then we were like should we go home and I was kind of thinking I'm okay with not going anywhere else and then we went to Sudwork and I remember um the service was the service there was so great screen the couches dude I honestly probably the reason why I ever wrote an article on couches um all that to say Sir Novella is going forward.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

Hen House versus Cellarmaker this one is the one that we were gonna fight about so yeah this is it's just a tough one man. It's not when you think about it huh I mean I've just had some for me Hen House and Humble Sea are of the same vein where it's if I see that can I reaching for it I know it's gonna be good. However they tend to be IPA heavy even though Hen House does have a good little barrel aging program. They do some fun sour stuff some awesome heavy beers. Rare barrel makers the fact they had that acquisition and brought in that talent it's we need to be puttermakerslash rare barrel on our list because we did that for the brewery offshoot.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

I think it's only fair. Are they still branding under rare barrel? Yeah no 100% and they're they're they are brooming as rare barrel and and and all that like it's it's separate but uh honored I guess is what you could call it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

Yeah I mean Humble Sea and and Hen House are two of my just go to breweries and I'm sad they both got surpassed here but i unfortunately these breweries are um let's let's run it Altamont versus Geist House I mean Geist House phenomenal brewery for every brewery the cast but they the brewery that made me want to restart the podcast they're too specialized unfortunately in Altamont I mean just just such great varieties I mean IPA heavy for sure but a a brewery that can do so many things well I mean their scarcity is one of the best beers on on the market every given any given you know springtime uh also I mean two two breweries that do collaborations very well I would love to see an Ultimate guy size collaboration personally.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Yeah no that'd be nice I'd I'd I'd drink the shit out that oh yeah and also the Ultimate location cool little location if you're uh driving through that part of the state nice little nice little taproom Livermore area I believe I think you're right yeah yeah but yeah Ultimate does go forward but uh if you're going through the Rosemont area of Sacramento traffic is terrible you know what's fascinating if you're driving from the the coast you know San Francisco to Sacramento and you're headed to the barrel district to to find yourself either a pruning barrel movement log off or cellar maker not cellar maker um claim stake just if you get off of a few steps uh stops before you got yourself Geist house and you've got the best out of all of them for loggers a hundred percent yeah that's that's that's fair get a nice five percenter and then then head on over to Burning Barrel. Uh but next Russian River vs ghost town I am so torn on this one because it's tough but I had a uh I had a uh West Coast Pilsner by Ghost Town recently and it scratched that part of me that loves the scumbag cream ale by ghost town. They do these light crisp lager-ish and lager style beers so well but they also do IPAs and hazy so well that being said Russian Russian River does so much so good if if you're gonna take a flight of twenty two beers from each brewery which Russian River could definitely do ghost town uh probably have twenty two but those twenty two you're getting from Russian River are just dialed in they do what they do well more variety more yeah it's uh just unfortunately it's that's a legacy team that's gonna be hard to beat. Same thing I mean so Ghost Town Geist House both ghosties both locations um if ghost town merged with Geist House and they had the logger game from Geist House somehow with the IPA game of Ghost Town they would probably make my favorite brewery of all time that doesn't age bears uh but yeah yeah uh Russian River so we we got our final sixteen Urban Roots Fieldwork Bike Dog Burning Barrel Search Nevada Cellar Maker Altmont Russian River the Brewery slash offshoot AleSmith Alvarado Duckfoot Modern Times Lost Abbey Farston Walker and Monkish I think we got we got we gotta we gotta just we gotta roll we gotta roll with this and it's gonna be hard. You think we think we're completing this alright so do we want to go through the south and uh do do the each call it's yeah let's let's run those let's let's let's run through the south three two onening uh so for the first one the brewery offshoot versus ailsmith three two one the brewery offshoot ailsmith um for me uh the brewery offshoot I I have not seen a single one of their beers available in the last few years whereas AleSmith has continued to produce and distribute um I'm not willing to fight it so Aylesmith does I would love I would love to say the brewery offshoot but I mean I honestly just they're they're a little too a little too scarce and at this point I'm wondering if that scarcity is just due to the fact they've downsized or don't distribute.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:20

I mean I haven't even seen an advertisement I used to get brewery advertisements all the time but I have not had one of their beers in in too long to put them above Ailsmith who I still have their beers very frequently Ailsmith goes on.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

Next we have Alvarado Street vs Duckfoot Brewing we're gonna do a three, two one Alvarado Street Duckfoot See this one I think Alvarado Street just does so many things well they age well they do IPAs well they do sours like I I just uh since you said aging I will concede I don't think I've ever had an

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

Aged beer from Duckfoot, not saying they don't, but for me, Duckfoot does the base lineup extremely well. So if you have the base lineup plus, then uh I will I will concede here the chapter.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

Bourbon barrel aged. Imperial stout with vanilla. It is 14.5%. This isn't your standard bourbon barrel aged stat with vanilla added. This Imperial stout was aged in a single vanilla extract bourbon barrel for 40 months and further conditioned on Mexican vanilla beans at a rate of one and a half pounds per 10 gallons. That's over three vanilla vanilla beans per bottle. The bottle itself, that isn't just how dark it is, that's a black bottle because they don't want any light getting in this mouth flavor. Anyway. It's gonna be hard for me to ever let them lose.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:59

I think we can agree modern times on this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

Modern times versus Lost Abbey, yeah, modern times.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:04

Yeah, Lost Abbey, very good beer, but um I think there's just a little more variety with the modern times, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

Firestone Walker versus Monkish. Do you want a three-tool on it?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

I mean, I would love to argue monkish, but for me, uh, unless we're doing a hazy IPA battle, Firestone Walker just has the the variety and the depth.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

Firestone Walker goes on. Final four of SoCal. Ailsmith, Alvarado Street, Modern Times, and Firestone.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:31

Shall we go back to the should we narrow both fields?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:35

Let's do NorCal. Let's do the three, two, one. Okay, Urban Roots versus Fieldwork. Three, two, one, urban roots.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:44

Fieldwork. So we keep coming back to this as a bit of a tiebreaker. They're barrel aging. I I love Urban Roots. They have the Demons Run, but they don't have the Eliza, the good conduct, and the Vikings Lament. Um Fieldwork has a little just like they they're both very similar breweries. But unfortunately for me, I think Fieldwork has a little bit more of that experience. They have a little bit more of the uh just uh the time they've been around, the beers they've done, um they're just slightly edged out. And that being said, I think that urban roots can surpass them.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:35

However, Fieldwork has the established the established Urban Roots.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

Night will fall. Uh then we have a Demon's Run variant. Please don't forget they do variants. There's another um knight will fall variant. And we have uh so demon's run. So I have the knight will fall, which is the Burn Barrel Aged, Imperial Stout, um, brewed with honey. The other knight will fall is I gotta say I hated the thing they did a few years ago of just everyone brewing everything in black on black. And then they have the the knights will fall without honey. Demons run here. Um, oh my god, vanilla and coconut, and then we also have the one with honey, so the demons run. And they they would have had a third one that had no adjuncts. These I have so the 2023 and a 2019, and then we have here a 2020 and a yeah, another 2020. Um I've held on to these, so you can tell that I have a a horse in this race. But you you seem like you're unimpressed by that. So what are you what are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:01

I'm gonna I'm gonna say something. I'm gonna ask you which beer out of the ones that we are holding, would you most likely buy it auction?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

Buy at auction?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:14

And this this is the uh Vikings Lament, barrelage Russian Imperial Porter, uh Afogato, brewed with, treacle, sweet orange peel, espresso, vanilla beans, aged in rye whiskey barrels. So is this one that you would be sad if I opened without you versus the ones in your stock?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

Fuck you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:50

Field work, and this is again a testament to both breweries. They are phenomenal, and I as much as it pains me to go against the brewery I got married at.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:58

But field work has done it a little better, a little longer. That's the that was the Vikings Lament version.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:05

One of their Vikings Laments. You listed multiple variations of the same beer. Their variations of their same beer, I would say, are just at that hair more dialed and caliber.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:16

They do kinda kind of go hard, don't they?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:18

It's it's just I I think a a product of the fact that Field Rook has been around uh half a decade longer. Uh again.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:27

I can't believe we have a 2019 night will fall, by the way. This beer 2019. This beer is seven seven years old.

unknown 1:11:38

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:39

What? This is insane.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

It hurts to think that how like that had to be like their first year in operation.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:49

Batch one permanence is celebrated what?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:52

Batch one, twenty nineteen. This I can I could get some money from this. From a nerd. Night will fall, a vintage dated Imperial Stout. Burned twenty in twenty eighteen. First aged 13 months in bourbon barrels, then bottled and aged another 12 months in our cellar.

unknown 1:12:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

This process yields enhanced fruit, mells the intensity of the roast character for a smoother, more lavish finish. 12, 28%.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:20

You know I love Mesa Bourbon Roots. I just think fieldwork has done it slightly longer and was slightly more dialed in.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:28

It's not about how long then.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:29

Um it's it's it's that close, but for me it comes down to what is your best beer you can produce. I think that fieldwork produces a slightly better best beer.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:45

We'll have to drink that to find out for sure. But we will.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:49

We'll have to do it side by side. Because I'm thinking the barley, the urban rized beers.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

The Urban Earth's barley wine I had recently was so good. And then they had the the barrel-aged um Mexican uh the milks the milk stash Mexican barrel-aged stash was really good. And then they had the the dry hop Saison, which is really fantastic from Urban Roots. I I I will allow field work to move on, but I think bar I think bar for bar, Urban Roots wins, but because I want to drink that beer that you have, I will let field work go forward.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:32

I mean, I I would love to put Urban Roots through, but that would be personal bias and not the fact that I have waited in literal lines for fieldwork beers.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:48

I've never waited in line for fieldwork beers. It's close.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:50

So so maybe I've literally waited in line. I've literally waited in line for the Vikings Lament. Oh, I guess I did say it's close. It's close. It's so close.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:04

Both both before scarcity of a beer, I don't think a better brewery makes, so I think that's a that's a that's a bad argument.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:12

I will I again say scarcity though, because they they were offering limits before the demand. Uh the demand drove the scarcity, not vice versa. Because they were offering one year, I remember they were offering, you know, four to six cans per person, but the line was so long they ended up having to cut those limits down because the demand outpaced what they expected. And granted, this was again hype craft beer, but I I in my life, I don't think there is a beer that I've loved more upon drinking than Vikings Lament. And that is a hard bar. There are uh select a few Sierra Nevada beers I could name. But as far as top beers of all time for me, that that Vikings Lament.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:04

The field work Vikings Lament is is is writing it hard. I like the beer, but if if if regardless what's going on, so let's go to Bike Dog versus Burning Barrel. Uh three, two, one, bike dog.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:24

Burning barrel. Damn it. We cannot agree on things today. Um we had just sung their praises and talked about their variation. We have talked about how bike dog doesn't really hit the mark on barrel aging. They do not compare in their experimental beers. But for the last burning barrel for me is going on a run.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

Bike dog is continued to deliver.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:47

Yeah, but I mean you look at the game now and these legacy programs, you know, once the transfer portal opens. Yeah, Bavaris. Top beer of all time. I have my tattoo because the artist. Yeah, I'm gonna play me on that. But we just talked about the hits about Burning Barrel.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:07

Babares is one of those beers when to to link off of uh Michael's lament, that first sip was just like, oh it is special. And then the fact that they do just keep hitting with with uh their their solid lineup, it's I can't name two beers from Burning Burrow, but I can name more than two from from Bike Dog. You know what I mean? Like, is that an age thing, or is that just because they they stay behind the the milk stout, the like riding a bike, the baris? They show that they can when they want to do stuff that is that is uh intense and and complex and and delicious. They can also deliver for uh uh over a decade. Who gets excited about a milk stout? Honestly. But that milk stout, that first sip, again, this last Saturday at Bike Dog, having that sip, it was it just reminded me, oh yeah. Uh this isn't just a milk stout, this is like this is a this is special.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:16

Um So we're going with consistency, because we we did say burning barrel, they they throw up a lot of shots, and the shots don't always land. Are we going with the the efficient score here?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:28

I normally wouldn't pick the efficient one, and I'd go with the one that's uh like interesting, but too many times their interesting is a multiple fruited sour. And uh I don't I I think I if if bike if if if you went to the store and they said okay, or to the brewery, taproom. There is a new barrel aged bike dog, and then there's a new barrel-aged burning barrel, pick one. I would definitely pick the barrel-aged bike dog. It's not even close.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:02

Fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:03

Uh so anyway, Cellarmaker versus Sierra Nevada. I mean It has to be Sierra Nevada.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:14

I don't think we need to be able to do that. Anything you can do, I can do better. I mean, you talk about Sierra Nevada, they they have done every style, even styles that don't literally exist. I mean, a bearage pentuple with chilies is not a real beer, but that is is something that was was brewed and was phenomenal by Sierra Nevada.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

And uh even though they're they're so big now and bloated and a little bit more boring these days with their their um distribution. Their their cracks and stuff. Uh it it it still comes down to that they they do a lot of things good. Maybe not sours overall.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:55

And they do have now the uh friends and family. I recently had a Weisenbach that was just phenomenal. You talk about taking something that's you know, something that's not popular and just showing how good beer can be when done well. Yeah. Uh yeah, Sierra Nevada. Um, that being said, rare barrel. Some of the best sours I've ever had.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:17

And Cellarmaker, if you're in San Francisco, or you're visiting San Francisco and you want good beer and really good food, go to their location off Mission. The Detroit Cellar Pizza there is the best I've ever had. We just had Detroit Cell Pizza at Fieldwork recently. It is one-tenth as good as the Cellar Maker Pizza. It is so amazing. And then you can also get Cellar Maker and Rare Barrel beer there. So I mean just excellent place. Uh Altamont versus Russian River Brewing. Do you want to do a 3-2-1? Sure. Three, two, two, one, Russian River.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:57

Russian River.

unknown 1:19:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:59

Uh I love Altamont. They do phenomenal things, but again, they're kind of more on that hazy dominated field uh for me. Yeah. Uh it could be different if you visit the brewery frequently. Um, however, Russian River again. Just done it well. Done it for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:17

Final eight. NorCal, field work versus bike dob. Sierra Nevada.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:23

We are hitting the hour twenty mark.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:26

Ail Smith resolver auto street mark. I I want to finish it out. I still got beer, man. Which the more this warms up, the better it's good for my people more drunk I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:37

Um I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this off to you to do the modern times Firestone, because that is one I don't really have the race on, so I'm gonna let you argue that. I can argue versus my.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:48

Okay. Um Modern Times versus Firestone Walker. Um Modern Times out of San Diego, Firestone out of uh why why am I Paso Rubbles. I was gonna say I better not space on that. Um Modern Times beer they do so many things really well. They do IPAs very well, not just your West Coast, but they do your hazy's extremely well. But then they do stouts extremely well. Barrel age stouts, regular dark beers. I know that they they have a lager here or there, maybe. I can't remember at this moment in time if I've ever had a sour for modern times. That would be interesting. Um sour beer. Um I think we have some fruit. I'm not sure if sour. So the fruitlands. Fruit lands. Uh that's the fruit lands, that's right. Uh like, but at the same time, I don't think about them in that capacity. Now we go to Farstone Walker, and they've got I think you can go you can go beat for beat when it comes to the IPAs, and Farstone Walker comes out on top, but then they've got they have, again, the Wookie Jack. I love black IPAs. They do one. Like I they but then they have the DVA, and then they uh there's so many beers that I just remember from them, and it's hard to to beat that, and then they got their aging program. I've had too many exceedingly good Firestone Walker brewing beers. And there was a time there when modern times beer was our friend Tim's favorite brewery, I don't know if it still is, but he loved the dessert stouts from Modern Times Beer, and they were very good. But it doesn't rival that of the sours, the barrel age beers, everything that Firestone Walker has going for it. And on top of that, they have a massive heavy hitter of a beer I don't really drink that much unless it's the only thing available, but it's that widespread that it sometimes is the uh alternative to like macro in 805. Which is now basically a personality, like it's a brand in and of itself.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:22

And that was just started it's a it's a bumper sticker for God's sake.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:26

It was just started when craft uh when when pizzeria's in the the slow area, the 805 area coat area, needed a simple beer, and they had leftover malt grain and hops they decided to put together into an easy drinking beer. That's literally how it started. They didn't have a name for it. They just said, hey, here's here's a beer that you guys want, because we can't keep up with you know sending you uh like the whatever IPAs. You want something a little bit less hoppy? Here you go. Easy drinking alternative to macro. Uh became extremely popular. They were like, well, we want that beer, what's it called? They had to come up with a name, they just called it 805. Like it it started so humble. And now I have sunglasses that have a ball opener on them that are 805 branded. It's not to say that allow that that is a thing that makes it win, but it has that, but then it has the soul of the barrel age program it has, the sour program it has. It's one of those ones, and now that they've taken over stone, shit. Like I not not to say that it's like you know, the same way that uh Cellar Maker and Bro Barrel is, but damn, it it's it's hard to beat Forest and Walker for me. It and and it's near and dear to my heart, it's near uh where my my grandparents live in Morrow Bay. I would visit on the way and and it it has that kind of like tight-knit thing for me as well, so that's also gonna be a reason why I'm gonna hold on tightly to it. But uh man. It's it's a it's a brewery too. You gotta it's it's its campus is Loganitas-esque. But it has a over one of the bar areas, um, a little conveyor belt of cans that just go around and around, and it's just so cool. Ah, man. I could talk about them all day. Farsen Walker beats modern times, Ailesmith vs. Alvarado Street.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:27

Um, I mean, for me it's gotta be the Ail Smith. We talk about breadth, we talk about quality of barrel aging, we talk about uh evening. Do they do a bunch of barrelings? Oh yeah. I mean the the AleSmith lineup alone is huge. Um they also have their old stock ale, which is like a is it an English strong? It's um forgetting the exact style, but they do, yeah, they do their old stock, they do their speedway stouts, um, and I'm sure I'm missing way too many others as well. They also have a very standard uh Belgian style, um, a plethora of IPAs, they're 394, 395, Pale Ale. I mean it's it's a lot of things they do well on the thing is Holvar Austria has a lot of barrel-aged beer too that they do so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:29

And they and they have so many IPAs that they do so good, like it's it's it's for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:36

Do they have I mean do they have Belgian?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:42

I'm sure they do. Let me look.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:45

Um but it it's one of those Aleosmith has a grand crew, they're horny devil, Belgian style blonde with coriander. I mean uh Ale Smith does.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:54

They have a variety of Belgian and sparred alees, yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:58

I mean for the biggest.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:59

Westfall, Westfall's one specific one that's a Belgian blonde ale. Um I I it it's for me, like I I I will st stick by my Alvarado Street. I like Ale Smith, but I've got way more Alvarado Street.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:18

Um Yeah, I mean for me it's uh they have a the Barrelage Grand Cru, which is a style you don't see a bunch of for Ailsmith. You've got the Barrelage Speedway Stouts, the the old stock Ale's, um I mean their barley wines, for me it's just uh they're a brand that I feel like, again, I've had a lot of, but it's also one I would seek out. Um right now, like in a crowded San Diego market.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:44

I I I seek out Alvarado versus anything if I can. They have a Vienna Cell locker right now. They've got the Motor Oil Barrel barrel aged stout, which is a is uh they're on their number twenty. Um they have another barrel aged um. Milk stout, Imperial Milk Stout right now. They have a fruited sour. Oh, their sours are so good. They do very similar to Rare Barrel in the way they do their souring. Um, because it's not all kettle sour. Um they have a fruited imperial sour ale with terpenes.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:19

It's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:20

I would I would only feel comfortable uh I don't want to concede this. I would I would have to flip a coin.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:27

I I think we're gonna have to go coin flip then.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:30

Okay, um do you wanna do you wanna call it?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:33

I'll call for call for ale smith.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:35

Alright, three, two, one. Heads. It's tails, boyo.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:43

Oh, it's upset. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:49

Wait, is this the second Alvarado Street win? Have they won multiple overtimes? They beat Stone on a coin flip. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:01

They beat two juggernauts in the south. That's guys. They've tried, but uh I I think they're gonna finally run up against your your match here. But let's go back to the north.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:16

Um we have a little bit of new school.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:20

New school and old school. Um for me, I have my two clear winners.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:27

It's field work. Fieldwork versus bike dog fieldwork things.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:30

Yep, and for me, uh Sierra Nevada, while legacy-wise, I think you could argue Russian River, they have continued to innovate and produce phenomenal, interesting things, whereas I think Russian River's kind of sat back on its heels and its lineups for for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:52

I think Sierra's Nevada's lineup hasn't gotten interesting. They have the random friends and the family and friends thing that does interesting stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:00

But what I mean there are trips in the woods. That that's been widely abandoned.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:06

Is that still happening? That came out like twenty.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:09

Yeah. They they're still doing different Trip in the Woods series. They're they still do I mean it I can't name more than a couple Russian River beers that I don't recognize the name of. Maybe their their Tourow series. I I mean for me, Russian River hasn't produced they they produced the same lineup so well for so long. But when it comes to growth, experimentation, new flavors, I I couldn't name you for beers from them that I could not find ten years ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:51

Which is that a reason to have them lose to Sierra Nevada?

SPEAKER_03 1:30:55

Again, again, there's nothing wrong with being consistent and phenomenal. However, we see all the time in sports the teams that don't adapt and change are the ones that don't make it to the championship game. I'll take I mean it's your g if you're if your game hasn't changed.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:13

When you're when you're talking semantics between Sierra Nevada and Russian River, like I I would I would Yeah, I it I I I don't want to say I don't care because regardless someone I like is gonna lose here.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:27

Like but that's that's the hard part of this exercise, but Russian River, phenomenal lineup. Um but if I go get that fly the twenty-two, I'd say eighty percent is gonna be the same thing we drank on that road trip.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:44

But I again I don't think that's a reason to knock them, but maybe I don't think it is either.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:49

But I I think that I've had I've had multiple phenomenal offerings in that time frame between that road trip and now from Sierra Nevada that have just blown me away. I mean yes, we can argue that it's exclusive, but at the end of the day, experimentation and quality are king, and Sierra Nevada still does that. Even to this day, when we've talked about brands consolidating, we've talked about going back to simpler lineups, they they still do it. They still do the damn thing. I like I said, I had that Weisenbach, which was available outside the families and friends club, that was available in their tap rooms, that is such a simple beer that's just done so well that it reminds you how good beer can be. And that's not anything fancy, special. It's it's a Weisenbach. Yeah. It's not age, it's not anything. They still do phenomenal, interesting beer.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:52

Yeah, I mean I'll I'll take it. I'll let him I'll let him go on this time. But Russian River is hard phenomenal. Because yeah, they've been doing the same thing for a long time, but damn, do they do it well and it keeps the the lights on and and that pizza. It's hard for me to say like I I I I would today pick to go to Russian River versus here Nevada, their brewery location because I think on tap at the brewery, generally speaking, there's a more variety at Russian River that I want to drink. Um also I just prefer that part of California more. But yeah, no, Sierra Nevada takes it. Now we're down. Fieldwork versus here Nevada, Alvarado Street versus Firestone Walker. Um I feel like NorCal is your fight, and SoCal's my fight.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:49

I mean, it g I I I care deeply about both these SoCal breweries, and I not that I don't for the NorCal, but I think that you are gonna have more of an internal struggle with NorCal than I will. Uh I could pick one quickly.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:05

Okay, I could pick one quickly on SoCal.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:09

So let me talk about SoCal real quick. Over Auto Street versus Firestone Walker. Over Auto Street, they have the underrated lineup. They have so much going on. But Firestone Walker. Man, they they they they have too much going for them. That's good. And what really bums me out is I feel like regardless, like Firestone Walker might be one of my favorite, if not my favorite brewery of all time. So I gotta pick Firestone Walker, and it's gonna go up against I think Sierra Nevada. I think you're gonna put Seer Nevada through, and I I don't know how I'm gonna argue against it. But I would I I will say Firestone Walker moves on versus Alvarado, what do you say?

SPEAKER_03 1:35:06

I mean, I'd say yeah. Uh Alvarado does this interesting stuff, but I mean I don't think you can just I just don't think you can put them in a tier that is Firestone Walker. I mean at the end of the day, in in college sports in life, the the powerhouses are powerhouses for a reason. And uh this is in an age where people are drinking less and voting with their dollar, uh Firestone Walker is expanding. Sierra Nevada is still going strong and independent. I mean, these are these are two breweries that belong in the top two.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:41

You're you're saying Sierra Nevada over field work then?

SPEAKER_03 1:35:45

I mean, yeah, it's the same argument I made for field work over Urban Roots, uh, who longtime listeners of this podcast know that Urban Roots in Sierra Nevada are uh uh two breweries I would choose to uh survive the apocalypse, so to speak. Uh the same argument holds true for Sierra Nevada over fieldwork. They've they've done similar phenomenal things for longer, for more refined, and they have a beer that um I'm sad will never ever be replicated. It's a it's a bottle I still have on my shelf. Uh and uh I can bring that up when we we argue this uh this next one. I mean I feel like it might come down.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:31

I love Syranvada, dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:34

It's it's phenomenal. I mean, alright, so do we just pit our our superstars against each other? What what is your Firestone Walker superstar? I know mine. I mean, it's it's specifically, I believe, the 2015 vintage of Zukuba. That's for me, that's my my Firestone Walker all-star, my favorite beer of theirs of all time. I mean, the English barley wine, the barrel aging. It's it was such a phenomenal beer. What is your Firestone Walker favorite beer of all time?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:09

The Sukuba is fantastic. The sukuba is fantastic. Um and to pick the my favorite Firestone Walker beer to have it represent my love for the brewery. I would I you know I would I would start to think about the age beers I've had from them in the past, this the fruited sour beers I've had. But another I've said it already tonight, and I'll I'll you know I'll keep saying it is the Wookie Jack. It's a black rye IPA. Is it anything crazy different? Is anything just changing the game? No. But damn, that beer over and over again is good. And how many other breweries can you think of that recreate and keep producing a black rye IPA? I can't think of another one, you know what I mean? I mean, that keeps brewing it. Um it's so good. And you can say that about so many of their core lineup beers, the DBA, uh the the the Pelican.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:32

The beer is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:35

The it it it's it's uh do you remember when Pivot was hard to find and when when we did, it was just like oh, this is amazing. Um I think lineup wise it's it's hard to for me to not I I I I would say lineup wise, I would pick Farris and Walker with a lineup of Sierra Nevada. But if you're talking about like the best beer ever that you know anyone's ever created, I I would pick Sierra Nevada with a beer that I'll never have again. And I think the fact that I can pick a beer from Sierra Nevada multiples that I know I'll never have again, I I don't think I'm gonna have that experience ever again from Sierra Nevada that I know I can keep getting from Firestone Walker. They're gonna make Sukuba again, and they're gonna age it the way I like it, and they're gonna do the thing. Sierra Nevada is never gonna make the um the the stout, aged in oak barrels and red wine barrels that I had back in 2015. That was amazing. They will keep making cool stuff, but they're never going to they're never gonna capture lightning in the bottle again. So short answer, Wiki Jack with Sukubo on its heels. Long answer, you got it. I I I I I vote for our small walker. And I do want to say too, because I know your I know your argument's gonna be great. We don't have to come to an agreement or to an understanding on this podcast if we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:12

But I will I actually I actually have one more one more argument that I think kind of encapsulates our our love for craft beer, what brought us into this. And back in God was it twenty twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, Sierra Nevada did something that I think is unique in both America, both in craft beer. They did something called beer camp across America where they released a a 12-pack of beers with various breweries throughout the country that was widely available that just showcased what I love about beer. It was it was creativity, it was style differences, it was twelve unique drinkable beers. And you're right, when you have Firestone Walker, you're gonna get something that you can find again. But with Sierra Nevada, there are these these moments of just creative collision that are meant to be enjoyed in that moment and never captured. Um kind of like you go to a concert, you see something, your phone's in your pocket, that is Sierra Nevada to me. And I don't know if you remember any of these beers. But Tater Ridge was You're talking about beers from other breweries, homie. No, these are well, I are we arguing that collaborations are beer from Yes. I would disagree. Sierra Nevada. I would disagree.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:07

Sierra Nevada didn't brew these beers.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:11

They brewed them in collaboration. In collaboration. Their brewers still brewed, but this is okay, it's it's Picasso meets someone else, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:22

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We've talked about how this works. We've talked about how collaborations work. It's all marketing. Yes, it's all marketing. Whenever I uh not that I am against collaboration, I love things can come together, but when you have two breweries come to collaborate, there is one brewery that brings all of it, and the other brewery that is there for the name to make the collab. That's generally how it goes, unless they're two big names. And even then, one brewery has come up with the the the recipe and brews it at their location. This beer camp was Sierra Nevada going, yo, yo, little dog, uh let's let's brew you brew a really good beer, let's do a collab on a different version. I'm gonna showcase it, which is cool. Love that. That's not them brewing beer. That's not Sierra Nevada. The lightning and a ball thing argument, fantastic. Love it. But the the beer collab, no, beer collabs are just not what we want them to be. They just aren't. I I I've asked multiple brewers, multiple breweries this. It comes in the market.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:37

In the modern era or in that prime era of weird weird things. You look at the wait time out, you look at the dogfish head, where he literally was brewing on a Pico brew in a limo with someone with their ideas, collaborating. And I I agree. Modern collaborations are did you drink that beer that he brewed on that that that on that no, but my my point is I think that collaborations started back in the early 2010s as an actual exchange of ideas before it became a marketing ploy.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:14

I want to believe it, I don't. I don't think it was. I think it was always a marketing ploy. And I think it was the big dog helping the small dog. And I love that Syria Nevada showcased breweries from across the country.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:27

But it was But for me, that what what solidifies and to to flip your point though, one brewery does the work. That that Tater Ridge was available within the torpedo room, a place that served Sierra Nevada brews. So who was the brewer and who was the collaborator?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:48

Probably the Probably Pro the I mean, just because it was in the the torpedo room doesn't mean that it was brewed by Syracuse Nevada. It just means that they got the that was from that's where they did their their pilot brewing.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:00

They had a small brew system at Torpedo. So that's where they were pi piloting beers.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:06

I don't think you can argue collaborations as the reason why brewery should win it. I don't like that argument for you. Okay, fair.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:14

Um in that case, we talked about consistency, we talked about narwhal, we talk about Bigfoot, we talk about Trip in the Woods, we talk about those paleo, other things. Summerfest. Yeah, I mean well that was a given. But I mean you mentioned Summerfest, you mentioned Ruthless Rye, a beer that people clamored over once they took it away, like you mentioned your Wookie Jack, you talk about a rye-based beer. Uh it at the end, I think you can argue both have the consistent lineups that have stood the test of time. So if we have two breweries that have lineups that stand the test of time, I think that that unique experience that lightning in a bottle is what you need to win Hearts Minds Championships.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:02

But at the same time, you have so many good Firestone beers that are that. You have those random fruit of sours they come out with, and I'm sorry, I don't know the names of them. They have the barrel age program of all these different barrel-aged beers that they have, because they don't have just the the barley wine, but they have the stouts and they have all the different adjuncts, and the every year they have the limited release series that comes seasonally of different stuff. Um just because we don't know as much about their interesting seasonal releases, I think that they they still capture that. They still do these limited runs. We're just so far north we can't see them. But I know they're there because every time I go there, there's something different. I'm like, oh my god. And at the same time, they they have um one thing that I haven't even mentioned, which I think is on par. Let's see here. Um what is their um I mean Mind Haze. The Mind Haze series is insane.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:07

To go up against that's just Hazy Little Thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:10

But to go up against Hazy Little Thing. Um But they've got the what is their their oh oh the the the Cali the Cali Squeeze is again going up against the Syria Nevada big hazy thing as well. But they've got two. Um the 805 going against the the pale ale. I think they match up so well is the problem here.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:36

They do. I don't I That's why they both survive for so long.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:40

The Firestar Octoberfest beers are good. Okay, so like this random American Wild Red Ale by Firestar Walker that I I found here. Um it's a Again, American wild red ale. And they'll make cases of it. Barrel aged, 80% French oak, 20% American oak. Um and it gives the the the masturation time, 12 to 15 months. It gives the acidity, the microf microflora tells you exactly the bacteria that's been used for souring, like and they just have they'll have multiple of these a year that just are fantastic. And if you want to talk about collaborations, the the amount of Firestone collaborations are amazing. I feel so bad to I don't want to leave this up to a uh Succoin. And I don't, and I'm not gonna admit I'm not gonna say Syria Nevada because I honestly think Firestone Walker Brewing overall is a better brewery. I mean suggest that we're attacked here because I'm not budging on this. And we we come back on the next episode and we and we we we duke it out. Firestone Walker versus Syria Nevada.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:02

I mean I love how part of me wants to end the series. We we kind of got a coin flip it then. Alright. Because I I don't think either of us is gonna budge. I mean, we can even talk wheat beers. I can't name a single Forest and Walker wheat beer. Um I really Weisenbach Kellerweiss.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:28

Am I am I calling it or you calling it?

SPEAKER_03 1:49:31

I mean, uh I think that we've we've had the you flip and the me call.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:38

Do you want to flip it on your computer and I'll call?

SPEAKER_03 1:49:41

Uh I don't have a flipping up. Alright, I'll call it. Fuck it.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:44

Alright. So three, two, one.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:47

Heads.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:55

Talk about your wheat beers this year in Nevada.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:04

This is this is a hard fun thing. I mean, uh at the Beer Me Cast, we are we are passionate about craft beer. Um based on Jack's reaction, I don't know uh if if I won or not. But at at the end of the day, we argue so passionately for these beers because these are things that shaped our our college experiences, our our day-to-day enjoyment, and just the communities that we've built haven't built around sharing drinks with friends, sharing drinks with you listeners, how how few it might be and just enjoying this mixture of grain, water, hop, uh various fruits, yeasts, bacteria, all these things we enjoy. We uh we like to talk about and uh it's not it wasn't a victory lap. It was it was more of a more of a speech about why we enjoy beer. Why are we passionate about this? Why why do we argue this? And it's at the end of the day, just because we we enjoy it. This is something we enjoy. It's something we love, it's something we are willing to argue and fight over, but at the end of the day, when this camera goes off, but this microphone goes off. And uh when you're listening and you end your day, we hope you enjoy a beer. And uh be it Wookie Jack, be it Paleo, be it Sukaba, be it be it Bearleach Narwhal, be it anything that you want to enjoy. Beer will always be something that is best enjoyed in the moment. And uh after that you can talk about the memories, and we have had phenomenal memories of of all of these beers.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:16

Yeah, and uh man it's it's interesting because here in Nevada they have such thing power even with the great losses they've had, you know? Torpedo room closing. I call that a huge loss. Um their seemingly embracement of just smacking you in the face with so many different variations of hazy little thing. So the point where there's hazy big thing, there's hazy this but the hazy thing being What was the luponic distortion series that uh Firestone Walker did where it was like a different luponic distortion every month? Well, there's there's there's they do the distribution game. I'll say the mind haze has about luponic distortion, not as much.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:19

But that was an interesting one. But again, uh I feel like craft beer is best enjoyed in the moment. Unfortunately, we live in a society that you need to move units to make money. And, you know, Sierra Nevada and Firestone Walker, I think, both do a phenomenal job of balancing what's the average person gonna buy off a shelf and what's the dude talking about beer for an hour and a half or two hours gonna buy. They both are great at quality, they're both great at innovation, and I think that they're both great at community. I mean, you look at the campfire in Paradise, you look at the Butte Strong, you look at these the fundraising efforts I'm sure Fire Stonewalker also is a part of. Um Breweries and Craft Beer has always been about community, about quality beer, and it's something that I hope doesn't get corporatized out at the end of the day. I I hope it's about that collaboration, about doing a beer camp, about brewing Firestone Walker is a phenomenal festival every year where they have a bunch of breweries out. Uh I'm hoping that uh that's what craft beer continues to be going forward as we age and refine our fine beer tastes.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:43

And I can't wait to discuss the best breweries in the United States next year for the March beer nest because can you imagine throwing Deschutes and Dogfish head into this, you know, and uh What about Surly Brewing?

SPEAKER_03 1:55:04

You know, uh underrated for us part of the world is the Midwest.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:12

The Michigans, the uh the first time I vis like I visited Surly Brewing in Minnesota, it was the same size as visiting Stone, and yet I had never heard of them on the West Coast. And this is true about beer around the world. Beer is community, be it, you know, uh a full city of Chico, it's here Nevada, of Pasaroblace, the Greater California area. There there are these breweries that we ha know nothing about on the rest of our own country, let alone breweries across the world. Uh, we would love to hear the brewery you feel best embodies quality, community, and just awesome beer that you would pay money for if you were Bill Gates to acquire. When I grabbed out these if money was no object.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:07

When I grabbed out these aged uh Urban Roots beers from my my closet back there, um next to them was a couple Goose Island barrel aged stouts.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:21

Like, you know, they're there are hopefully they're not the soy sauce ones.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:25

No. Soy sauce ones? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:56:30

Uh after the takeover by A B and Bev, they had some runs that had a a very soy sauce.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:35

So these are these are they've been aging for like four years.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:38

OG.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:38

One of them is uh one of them is a bread. Anyway. But yeah, I know. What what what what brewery out there floats your boat more than others and why? Let us know. You can email us at bearmekast at gmail.com. You can follow us on Instagram at BeerMecast. Um and uh with that being said, yeah, just uh comment on our Instagram post if you have a shout out or or anything. Uh next week we're coming at you with the Sakamarrowcraft beer week. We're gonna be talking about what's happening, what happened. So if you want to be part of that action, it starts this Friday. Uh events. Have some fun, drink some beer, let us know what you think. But as always, you could be listening to any type of uh shit out there. There's so much stuff on the internet. You could be listening to Joe Rogan or some some bullshit, or you could be listening to something that actually, you know, like enlightens you and betters your your brain, but you listen to us harp on for two hours about California craft beer. We very much appreciate it. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next time. Go try beer. Cheers.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:55

Cheers.