The Corpse's of Device Brewing and How to Start a Successful Brewery in 2026

This week the lads talk about beers and the re-animated corpse's of Device Brewing. Then they give unsolicited advice for anyone opening a new brewery in the year 2026. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

It's time to talk about things. So, um you are you're now on you're on the fourth book.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

I am of uh DCC. We're approaching uh the they're going for the whatchamacallits, the three the three thingies. So he's flying into the castle right now to retrieve the stopwatch.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

He wants he wants to he wants to get the pieces to the the gate.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Gate of the pharaoh gods, the namesake of the book. Um hashtag spoilers, but yeah, I don't even know what it is yet, so not really a spoiler. But they're going for something the book's named.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Knowing that there's an object I guess is a touch of a spoiler.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

I won't even I won't even give you all the objects. So we'll we'll just leave it at that. They're going for some weird shit that's probably gonna do weird shit, and I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Yeah, but it it just keeps ramping. Like I I'm reading the epilogue of that book now, and it's just from where you're from where you're at in that same book on to the to the epilogue, it's uh Oh, I bet.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

It's it's quite wild how to still have technically only one craw one quadrant complete. I don't even want to know what happens when I get to the flooded area. Yeah. That's gonna be crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yeah, it's it's good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

And um Just also the dungeon AI is uh is wild and uh a a bit a bit of an abusive a bit of an abusive uh host.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Well, I mean it it has all the power, right? It's definitely it's definitely power drunk on it, and um you'll you'll learn more stuff about I I there's there's something.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

I'm sure because they rushed it and what was the the quote from one of the one of the people in the previous books?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

It's like what's the one.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

It's run on duct tape and like managing to survive or some shit. Like the whole world is basically uh poorly programmed.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Was thrown together duct tape out of last second type uh type thing, yeah. Which um thrown together last second and duct tape, what are we talking about? Are we talking about the beer me cast?

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Does that work as a transition? Yeah, that's the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

I would love I would love some magical duct tape that replenishes itself one foot or yard every hour.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yeah. Easily one of the cooler sounding things that you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Better than a good marital aid for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

But we are here. This is the beer and the cast. And my name is Jackson, I'm accompanied by Mark, as always. Mark. We were even talking about Denton Clark Alba. Uh other than reading books, how are you done?

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Uh I mean, you know, it's it's it's that time of year where accounting has to has to be done for the state, so we're we're getting through that. And uh we're we're gonna we're gonna move into the new fiscal year and uh good graces, hopefully, before before we get into that next chapter of State Dom.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

The next chapter also being the return to office happening next month.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Uh don't remind me. I have strong feelings, but that's the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Yeah, and that doesn't sound like fun podcasting.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

It's not fun podcasting. Unless you unless you're not a fan of Newsome, in which case I have some expletives, but uh we will we will save that for the union to continue their fight. Uh go support uh AB 1729, I believe it is.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

A AB 1729 that that that sounds fun, but what's what's even more fun is talking about beer. We got the beer of cast, then we're gonna talk today about the corpse of device. And then after the corpse of device, we're gonna talk about new breweries, when they open, what it means, how it goes, can there be a new brewery opening that then Oh my camera doesn't feel weird. Um can a brewery open up small and eventually grow big? Can you get that rags to riches story anymore? And other things to go along with that. But first, it's the beer of cast. Did I go first last time or did you go first last time? I don't recall. Um I'm pretty stuck on the beer I've got here, so I'm gonna go. Go first. I've got the Dunkelsbach by Eddie. Ooh, Dunkles Bach. Dunkles Bach. The uh below the zone. 7%er.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

What's the style?

SPEAKER_01 4:32

The the Dunkels?

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Oh, god damn it. I yeah, I I'm used to saying the name of the beer, then the style, but then it's just Dunkelsbach, and then my brain was like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

It's just below the zone, the Dunkelsbach, 7%. Um, and this was voted by the people. So they the the home b the the owner brought in homebrew, four different types of beer, and whichever beer won was gonna be the beer that they brewed for the anniversary, and the Dunkelsbach won. So we got it here, and it's delicious.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

It's dark, it's are you are you Bach in the saddle again?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Don't you dare.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Um And I had a really I had a really fun conversation with Mike, the the owner and brewer about the beer. When I say really fun, I mean we we talked for like a minute about it. Um The thing about this beer is like the first sip that you have, it's like okay, this is fine. But is it too bitter? Like, it's not bitter, it's it's just like, is there something there? But then you you want to go back for another taste and then No, it's just this slightly sweet, malty Bach. Like I don't it it it's it it is the epitome of.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Doppelbach. Yeah. Is what I'm gathering. It's a little more just malty. 7%, so a little lower ABV than your traditional Doppelbach, probably. Or maybe not traditional, but the Doppelbox you see around here, which are you know usually eight or higher sometimes from what I've seen.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah, just a tableau and and we were talking, it's like, yeah, it's it kind of grows on you and grows on you quickly.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

But the thing is too, um it's one that you just kind of want to go back to. Like he was saying, like, yeah, you know, it's not like the most adventurous beer. It's solid.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

But he finds himself always reaching to pour it. Like, yeah, if I were here and I was looking for a beer, like it's just that one.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

I mean, sometimes you get caught up with what's the new label or what's the new beer, but sometimes you just want a delicious, consistent beer that might not challenge your palate, but it it pleases the palate and it's drinkable and delicious. I mean, you don't always want, you know, some crazy adjunct, some new hop. Sometimes you just want a nice lager or a nice malty beer. And as we move into summer, I feel like we're moving, you know, into the pale ale lager uh category of drinking, especially here in Sacramento. I had um picked up some Kirkland Hells, which are phenomenal little four point five percent beers, and uh they go down like water in this heat, so um they're tasty. Yeah, be careful if you buy a twelve pack. It won't last long.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

The more it sits, like actually if it comes a little bit closer to room temp, if it's not completely cold, it almost m smooths even more. It it kind of evolves in a really fun way as you drink it, which is nice. Not I mean some beers don't do that, so yeah. Um I give it uh an eight and a half out of ten. Very nice, very nice. And it it's one where there's a few in my fridge and I I reach for I'm reaching for those before other stuff. Like it's just it's just like, yeah, I want that. Um a good no nonsense beers beer. Um and uh yeah, I think that that's it for me. What you got.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

What are you drinking? I have another downtown Sacramento staple, Urban Roots, their Karma Dog hazy IPA, which is a 7% hazy IPA. The description says juicy and smooth featuring cashmere, nectarone, and citra hops. Um, I will say cashmere is a hop I always find myself enjoying. He has that little bit of kind of soft on the palate kind of hop taste. It's i i it's honestly very aptly name. Yeah, the the cashmere hop is very aptly named. It it it's very soft on the palate. Kind of eases you into that, you know, citrusy notes. It's not hitting you super tropical um bitterness. Pretty low, low bitterness on this, but um a good hop profile. Uh overall, I mean, out of the Urban Roots IPAs I've had, I think this is in the the upper fifty percent of those. Uh I'd give it a good seven nine.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Okay. Interesting, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Yeah, Nectaron, I don't find I I've had many beers that have Nectron, and I don't know if it's just a subtlety that I'm not appreciating, but Nectarone doesn't really move the needle for me. But the the cashmere and that citra add for a nice little kind of soft, soft citrus.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

I wonder if I can put my finger on a beer I've had that has that's ever had that.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

That's my thing, is every time I see Nectaron, I'm expecting more citrus than is let on. And considering this has citra and nectar on, but the cashmere shines, that might be, you know, a Well is Nectarone supposed to be citrusy or is Nectaron because it sounds like Nectarine, which makes me think sweet, fruity. That's where I'm at, and I would most most hops are named like what they're supposed to taste like, unless you know it's like Rawaka, which I don't know what a Rewaka tastes like. Right? Tastes like licking a castle. I don't I don't know, but um like licking a castle. I'm trying to think I'm trying to think if you were naming something centennial, like Centinel is where my brain goes. No, Centennial is a good hop. I've actually had a single hop centennial beer that I rather enjoyed. Um more on the pine side, probably.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

I think Centennial was the main main hop out of the uh uh Monkey Knife fight, the original monkey knife fight, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

I mean those the big the what is it, the big three cascade centennial um Cascade Centennial Simcoe?

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Or Citra. I mean Citra's a big one, but yeah, Citra?

SPEAKER_02 10:35

I don't remember. I have to look at the big three now. Um I feel like a bad craft beer enthusiast. I'm blanking on the big three.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

It's just big me. Um but uh good pull, good pull.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

Did you give a rating to your beer? Yeah, 7-9. I mean it's a very enjoyable beer. It's not the best Sermon's IP I've had, but it is it's very drinkable and uh not super clawing. Could use a little bit more bitterness, maybe a little bit more sharpness. I do say I will say cashmere, as much as I enjoy it, does make you feel like you've there should be just a little more there.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Like it it drinks like in the bitterness respecting the hope in the aroma. In in in the flavor profile, 'cause it it kinda it kinda lingers a little bit. It's it's very approachable, it's nice, but then you're like you're waiting for some kind of kick, whether it be a bitter kick, whether it be, you know, uh something tropical, something verdy. You're waiting for something else, it feels like with Cashmere sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Where you're like, oh no, this is just not a complete hop. Yeah, and I don't know what you can do. Which is fine, like not every hop has to be complete. Like I I I feel like the um I mean I already said Simcoe, Nelson Savon, like I feel like those when they're s the solo hop, not that they can't be good, but they can be lacking.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

I think that they are good complementary hops like And I don't think I think my problem is nothing really hits the back of my palate. It kind of just sits there at the top. Uh nothing when you swallow, like when you're you're taking that last final bit of the sip. Phrasing. Uh nothing nothing really nothing really pops out there. Uh yeah, it just just kinda ends at the top of the palate there. That's all I have to say about that.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Feel free to talk all about your swallowing, dude. Keep going. You know, I'd much see what you're saying. High note at the end of it.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Like when you were talking about kind of like um I mean that's why All the flavors up front, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it it it feels incomplete in some sense when I drink one.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Well, for like food, it's like salt, fat, acid heat. If you don't have the acid with certain foods, it's that bright note that hit at the end, like it it can you know be too the the umami of a dish can be too too up front. So if you got a hop that's too fruity and too Oh, we got meow in the mic. He full on meowed in the microphone. He's like, I I have opinions with little little beetle like when the fruit's all up in your face of the of the hop and and the the citrus notes, I think that might be when I I personally taste it and I think of that rotten fruit type flavor. Though I I've said it before on a beer recently where I'm like, it uh what beer was that? I don't remember now. But it's just seemed almost rotten. I think it might have been because there wasn't that bright bitterness in the background. Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

But uh yeah, overall still very drinkable beer, very refreshing. And uh yeah, enjoyable. Karmadog. It's got a cool yin yang by Shiba Inu or Corgi looking thing on it. But now I mean if I was drinking this with some some Bach hot chicken, I think that would hit. Because the hot chicken will sit on the back of your palate.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

I always wonder, like, do they do they uh do they now brew for their f like food places? Do they think of that or do they just do what they're gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 14:28

At their Carnas area they have their Luna domil or whatever it's called. They're they're basically their negromodella um equivalent. So I mean they definitely brew a plethora of styles, and I do think they probably intentionally pair. I don't know if they brew particularly for one, but because they have such a broad spectrum of beer, I think they are able to keep it a little bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Okay, let's talk about the corpse to device, though. Because device and um it left behind a some locations. Let's start with the one that I feel like I said a little that a little bit like Chris Vulcan. Left back some locations, um, which was worse.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

I just pictured Donut reanimating a brewery. But uh Which one do we want to start with? Do we want to start with the uh the younger corpse or the older corpse?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Let's start with the one in the middle, which is the one that nothing's happened to really, which is the ice blocks. Like the so that location, like it's it's a really really good location.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

It's very walkable there. It's very downtown. Yeah, Kavanusome wants you to walk there.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Parking there sucks. If you're going there, it was awful for my my camera walks off the circles. Um it's awful for parking. It's just atrocious. But the location itself being next to all those other businesses and having a decent enough space to be able to do. Yeah, between sixteenth and seventeenth on R Street. Yeah. Um but now it's it's device is gone and it is I don't think it actually is anything.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

I thought it was something, but I I last time I walked by it, I didn't see anything. I had gone to Frank's in the last month or so, and I don't remember seeing anything then.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Um I think I think my confusion is I thought it was a place because I saw a sign, but now I'm thinking that sign was pointing to something different.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

So might have been pointing toward Frank's. Although I will say I don't know if it was called Frank's when I went there for this event, but one time we went and there was a SpongeBob theme. And it was entertaining. Um but if you do go to Frank's, which is across from the corpse of Device Ice Blocks, uh bring cash, because they do not do cars. But yeah, overall I I think the ice blocks might take more time because obviously in a downtown setting, you've got more more overhead, probably more hurdles to open a business. Uh probably not as small business friendly as, you know, a warehouse off of power in.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Oh, well, no, absolutely not. Um but yeah, no, it could be a good space, but it would be a good space specifically for I think it being a tap room. Like it has the setup for it. I don't like restaurant, no, it's not gonna have food.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Because they had that beautiful U-bar, which, you know, wrapped around and you could walk on either side of it, sit around the bar. I love a U-shaped bar personally. Um things that come to mind for U-shaped bars were um, you know, RIP, Black Hammer, yep. We had the same thought. Uh and then Backstage. Backstage, yeah, they did have one too. That's right. Um yeah, I'm trying to think of any others.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

But yeah, I mean Um Wasn't the torpedo room technically like a U, or was that just a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Yeah, no, they were they were flat out. They were a long one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

I felt like there was like on the sides it went to the fridge on one side and the bathroom was on the other, and you could order there too, but maybe I'm mistaken.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Yeah, there was also, I think uh Yeah. I think there was um a seafood restaurant off 16th Street that has uh since closed. Was it Echo and Ridge, it was another one.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

There was a brewery that had another one that had a U-shaped bar that was huh.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Might be it might have to be a separate segment. We'll have to look up all our favorite U-shaped bars.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

That could be an episode topic, or favorite bar shapes for for that.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Favorite bar shapes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Um but yeah, so it's it's a good little space. Um I'm sure eventually it will be something, especially with the RTO happening, more people downtown.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Oh, you know what? I think sorry, real quick, I think Old Republic did had a U-shaped bar before they rebranded and you know crashed and then it movement took over. Because movement is no longer U-shaped. But I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

I'm pretty sure Old Republic was when I went to Movement it was U-shape.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Is it? 'Cause I didn't think they had an area behind anymore.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

I thought it was.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

I remember it being U-shape when I went last.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

But you order at the front and there's seating to the right, but I don't remember there being seating behind anymore. There's seating. It might be though. Movement might be U-shaped. Well, I think Ora Public definitely was. But um movement did re reorganize the space of that warehouse, um, for for our viewers a little bit of history. Uh there was once off of Sunrise Boulevard in Sacramento a brewery called American River Brew. This was uh a brewery that opened before I was legally able to drink, I believe. And uh they closed down right around the boom happening. Uh a brewery from Nevada City called Old Republic took that space over. Um one of the first breweries to offer me a job out of college, which I had on the unfortunateness to turn down for an accounting career with the state. Probably the better move on my part considering they eventually closed down in the following years due to PG ⁇ E's fuckery and their overexpanding, but uh yeah, so I I may have at one point brewed for old Republic Brewing, but unfortunately they closed, and then a third brewery took over this warehouse that has now housed three breweries. And uh Jackson, do you know the only other space to have hosted three separate breweries in Sacramento?

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Uh well that that no, well yeah, that would be the um the the the it's currently bike dog and it was high water, and before that it was Sacktown Union slash tower. So yeah. Yep. So for technically the YOLO went from yellow to campus, but it was still the same brewery.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Yeah, but I mean different brands, but yeah, only two there. But yeah, so fun facts.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Um Yeah, facts that are fun.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

We will lead that into a new topic after we discuss the next two uh device corpses, one being the pocket pocket.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Or the pocket.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

An interesting area, because pocket isn't neighborhood within the greater Sacramento area, if you can be generous. That is literally a pocket of neighborhood that is secluded by freeway and river. It is a pocket between the I-5 and the Sacramento River, and it is an interesting little pocket neighborhood, and we used to go out there and drink on the river a lot there. Are you gonna river days? I wasn't going to, but you know, I I know you're a dungeon crawler fan, that's probably the clue about this. But Yes, I have a fun scar on my foot from kicking a boat propeller. And uh fun fact if you clean a wound that uh you you get from kicking a boat propeller with Bacardi, it doesn't get infected, but you do see your tendon.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Good. That you know, you put that puts the fun and fun fact. Um, but yeah, so this location, I did you ever go to it? I did. I wonder if you did. I had.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

I had gone, I believe, with Mike uh Mat and Waugh at one point. Okay. And uh shut up, Matt Wa and Mike. Um good friends at the pod. Uh they were a very cool location, very, very open, family friendly, lots of space.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Very weirdly shaped.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yeah, it's very strip mall, you know, read.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

The inside wasn't but the thing is it's it's like it's like a strip mall location, but the inside wasn't like a box. It was like a zigzag type thing with where like I remember first going, like, wait, is this the entrance? Is that the entrance? Because it they seemed like they both were viable and they had the the layout was was just you know trying to try to fit in with the combined space that had been you know fitted for its purpose.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Uh I think a lot of ghost town when I think of weird spaces, because ghost town, you know, is a former restaurant turnbrewery that has a front door but also has a patio you can enter through. I think CapTap, which used to have one main door, but now you enter through the patio.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

I think I don't like that. I still I I get it because they don't want people darting in and grabbing the cans and sealing them, but I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Axe better as a service entrance now, yeah. But it's we it's fun to see repurposed spaces. Um I think my favorite ever repurposed warehouse was Big Sexy Brewing. Because when you entered, you literally entered into like what would be you know a tile store or something, and you walked around all the brewing equipment to get to the bar in the back.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

It was the longest walk. Like why why are we walking all the way from and and that's where the bathrooms are too. The bathroom is in the front.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah. And so you piss when you get there and you piss when you leave. To get to the to the taps, you gotta equipment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Walk to the corner of the building, turn left, walk all the way to the other side of the of which is a a pretty sizable warehouse. That thing was pretty big. And then you turn left, and then you can get some some okay beer.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Um Yeah, block craft beer and kitchen and pocket is the former uh pocket device location, and uh it looks like similar fashion to, you know, any kind of takeover. Uh someone lost interest being the owner of the device, you know, he packed it up, moved states, and someone else, you know, saw the merit in the idea, the merit in the location, and opened a craft beer kitchen, which I'm always here for a craft beer tap room with kitchen. I mean, we have so much good beer in the state, I'm never opposed to a tap room. Yeah, in the city. Um but especially in a place like Pocket, where you know you're not a high volume, you know, producer or high volume restaurant kind of place. This really does become a neighborhood focal point.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

And do we know, do they have a bottle shop connected or no? I that I don't know. It would be a good location for a bottle shop because it would be in that parking lot is a bell air, and um I want to say there had been like a CBS or a right aid. Oh, I'm sure they got the same. Like like your like your your your whatever uh I want to say not the iHeart Teryaki one, but there's like a Hawaiian anyway, just like usually usually it's used as a normal kind of grocery development. To be able to then jump over and get some some handpicked four-packs or yeah, something local, something small business.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

I I think it's a great use of space, and uh I wish them a lot of success. I probably won't visit Pocket anytime soon just because it's not our our typical wheelhouse of locations, but if I am in the area, I would love to try it.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

I remember actually that reminds me, I remember talking to someone at Ed E's who said that he lived in the Pocket area, close to that location, and he said that it had become his like normal destination. Good.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

I just walk and it was so close to the neighborhood breweries are very important in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

And it was so close to his house that he would walk there with his dog and he'd walk barefoot.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Nice. And that's I have done a lot of barefoot things in pocket.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

But just but I've been there now after I I have I completely had forgotten that I had this conversation with this guy, but now that I'm thinking about it, he would have had to have crossed an an an entire street, and if it's the weather that you would be comfortable enough with your feet being bare, that's gotta be a hobbit. Some of us have tough feet. That's I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

I mean, gr growing up my dad had a gravel driveway and I would just walk barefoot around said gravel driveway, which probably explains my my current feet situation. Very callous.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

I I I knew it was a weird thing for him to say that he was going there barefooted, but now that I'm actually like contemplating completely the location and everything, like that's that's very odd.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

But also barefoot life is a thing. Look at Mac Hudlands for the Bills.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

I don't want to look at him. Um so other corpses.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

He is glorious hair. Um the final corpse, the corpse that started it all.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Um and for us, in a way, some our craft beer.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Very important to yeah, our craft beer fandom. It's not fandom, it's uh fanatic personality general general interest. It's who I am. Device Brewing's integral IPA was integral into our induction to craft beer. Induction, does that work?

SPEAKER_01 27:57

I think it's the pincushion tilesner really pinned us into this this uh I don't know. There yeah, there's so many different ones to use. I mean Briton Moscow.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

I'm holding up a beer to the camera. It's the Briton Moscow. Briton Moscow.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Yeah. Cherish it always until we drink it.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

I mean this is uh the my only alright. Sidebar, we have a lot of sidebars this episode. This is a sidebar episode. Um sidebar. I love the cans of old. You you're talking your lucky loggers, you know, your your Olympia cans, the cans that are imprinted directly on the can, that artwork will last, that lay label will last. I've got some old beer cans sitting on my dartboard in my garage. The thing with printed labels is those will not hold up in, you know, just any environment as well. I mean, I found Olympia pool pull tab cans in a ceiling of a condo remodel I did back in college, uh, and they look like you could, you know, pop them open and drink them. Uh I will be sad.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Is this just a is this you being old man right now and saying very old man like they used to.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

It's I love stickers. If if you know me, you know that I literally have stickers of beer on basically anything. My mini fridge, my mirror, my entire garage cabinet set. I love stickers. But part of me is just like gonna be very sad when those stickers run out, because it's memories.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

But at the same time, y uh you're experiencing them, you're you're you're using them, everything everything is temporary, everything's fleeting. Stay with that.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

But that Olympia can in the roof of the condo bathroom.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

The Olympia can from the early 1900s will forever be around. It's probably the lead in the paint that's keeping it there. Um bring back lead. But hey, 14th Street.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

But yeah, 14th Street.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Now opening in ten days as Balance Beerworks. It's balanced beerworks.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

June 13th.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Balance Brewing is a brewery out of like Pennsylvania or something. So Balanced Beerworks is a works. I've talked about this before.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Beerworks is a phenomenal name. I like Beerworks.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

I like I like the the the differentiating name. You know, like because there's there's Mindscape Brewing. Um not Mindscape Brewing, there's Mindscape Fermentations. Yes. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Because they I mean, and also they do more than just uh beer. Um so it is fun that they they make it known.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Yeah. Um I've I've seen Aleworks brewing. Yeah. But uh but then it was still brewing, but it was ale works, so the works was in there. Like I I like when I like when it works, yeah. I like I like when it works. And there's you know, W-R-X, W R K S. There's different working titles for setups.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Are we talking about Subarues? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Uh W-O-R-X, but um, yeah, so Balanced Beer Works opening in the original device location in a small warehouse district off Power In, you know, home to former processing, you know, plastics stores, general, you know, kind of blue-collarish production style areas. I mean, I think there were dairy farms, there's railways going through that. I mean, there's a I'm sure there's a history of Sacramento podcast you could find that talks about the industry side of Sacramento. But in the modern day, we've seen a lot of these warehouse districts, and this obviously started, you know, at the beginning of craft beer, uh, being taken over for production purposes, and we're producing craft beer in a warehouse, and then also drawing people to said warehouse to drink the beer. I mean, you have the people who work in the area, you have people who travel to go there. It's it's a great way to enjoy craft beer. I think everyone should have their first craft beer in a warehouse.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Uh I don't know if that's a hundred percent, but it's a that that's a pr that's a lukewarm that that's how it should be aesthetic. And the and the people there. So the um what we have here is Bruce McAfee is gonna be the brewer and he has uh a pretty decent resume. He uh brewed at uh Deschutes brewing. So he went from Deschutes. Um I actually don't know if he was anywhere in between. It doesn't state that, but on their Instagram it posted that you know he started at Deschutes and was there what was it? 2008, so he started brewing for Deschutes.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Oh the start of the boom.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

And they they really have like uh they have like a meet the team type thing on their Instagram and uh McAfee's there's the Mickafies. That's weird. Um but it they're they seem to be like pretty family oriented. There and I think the balance portion is supposed to be work-life balance, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Work-life community.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Life, work, beer, find your balance. So an interesting name in that regard. Um also good philosophy. I'm interested in discovering how their beer presents itself, right? Because are they gonna have an identity like Geisthouse does with were loggers? Are they gonna have are they gonna be is it gonna be clear that hey, this guy came from Deschutes? Are we gonna get beers that are Deschutes S?

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Are we getting classic West Coasts? Are we getting classics? Classic West Coasts with Obsidian stout? Are we getting or are we getting he you said he had brewed at Device, if I recall correctly. I don't know if that's the one.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

They didn't put that in there.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

Maybe they want to separate themselves from the the device name. Might be some bad feelings there. Um if they come from device, I have a pledge to him. Please uh bring back the integral. It doesn't have to be the name. I just want the flavor. If if you know it, if you've got the secrets.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

And also, um Yeah, call it derivative.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

That would be fucking freaking.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Sorry, Math Joe the first post they did that showed a beer at all was a nitro cr uh cream ale. They made a post showing them organ nitro creme ale.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Definitely some organ, some organ roots. Classic craft beer roots.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

You got my attention. Yeah, bring back.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

What was it, the mild ale urban roots? 3.9. Uh I believe it's 3.9, but uh just a beautiful, light drinkable, almost like a pub ale, but you know, more carbonated, a little colder. Um yeah, I I think nitro is a good step away from cask. I mean, I don't know if I want a cask ale in the Sacramento summer. Um, maybe the Sacramento winter.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Yeah, but a dark winter, maybe, but yeah, nitro. And and and the thing is nitro is not easy to do. Like so You have to consider a lot of it. They're doing nitro before they open. Like they made a they made a choice to know how to do it, which I wonder if that passes over from his his time at Deschutes and from his time if he was at device. Uh it sounds like it would have been. Um, because Addie's has attempted Nitro a couple times, it would take a whole separate system, and they tried doing it without it, and it it just doesn't work. Um so yeah, that I I find that to be a fascinating one.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

But kind of destroying ability and the the flexibility, hopefully. Maybe some of those different styles.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Rising up from admittedly, I think device I got it had gotten a little stagnant, a little stale, um as it petered out. Um coming from that, having something that is a little different and a little bold, I think will be interesting. And that's that's the possibilities that these these these locations when they close down raise for someone which is cool to the passion, the ability, and uh but that goes to goes to the question, can you in the modern day start small and succeed, or do you need to uh invest a bunch up front and focus on volume?

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Um I I I can think of a couple examples for both through, you know, uh the history and recent, but uh what's what's your best example of a brewery that started small and gained a following?

SPEAKER_01 37:12

I mean there's there's the obvious, right? There's Geist House.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Yeah, well I I would argue I would argue Geist House took a huge investment up front. We're talking full remodel over a year to open. I mean, we're talking they they came out with, you know, the full size tap room, full lineup of loggers, which are beers that take longer to brew. I would argue Geist House is an example of a large upfront investment. And from what I understand, they actually own the location, so it wasn't even a lease situation. They are invested at a groundroots level.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

I and then the thing is too, starting small. I mean, that that that that's a very interesting thing because uh Alaro taking over for Rubicon. Rubicon, when they were around, you could find their beers in locations, right? In Alaro Good distribution, you can't really find cans in places, but they'll have it on tap at certain locations.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Um I mean I think we need to even think smaller. I mean, look at our our early Ferrand beer. Look at right-eye brewing. Look at look at the nanoscale breweries.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Baby. Well or or Delta Born. I mean Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

I'm talking Burning Old Togos. And then that's a brewery in recent memory that has started really small, but is still surviving at the very least. I don't know the level to which they're thriving, but to be in business four plus years is is no small feat.

unknown 38:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

I think they're what they just reached seven, yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Yeah, that's and there that is a brewery that started literally out of, you know, I they still had the Togo's hot plate counter, and I'm all too familiar with that counter.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

I I think the thing the and what we want to discuss here is can a brewery today start that small and get to the size of Sierra Nevada? Um because starting up Geist House, yeah, they they started with a pretty big location, pretty big investment, bought the location. You've got breweries taking over at, you know, like we just said, from device, that has a that is a big brewing location that has the capability of distributing. So we will see.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

So did they take over both suites though? Because the original device location of 14th only had the one suite. Then they expanded to an additional.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

We'll have to see if they did take all that over or not. If how much capacity that size, then that would have been them taking over this big uh player and them going f you know, going forward with it. Yeah. You've got the location off of 65th being taken over from tower uh to high water, from high water to bike dog, this big brewing location, and then on the huge, huge scale, you've got Firestone acquiring stone to brew in their own location. But can a brewery start small and then ramp it up? Because it seems uh I th I don't think it can be done anymore. I think that you uh initially you set yourself into your plan. You set yourself into what the business is gonna be. I don't think it's as viable anymore, and probably hasn't been for a good amount of time viable to start small and have this aspiration that eventually your business is going to build and grow into a namestay of not just a city, but like of a state and of a country. I think that you either go all in first and you get to that size that you want uh within a year or so, or you've pigeonholed yourself into whatever kind of clientele that you're going to uh uh attract to a location or uh maybe a small one city size distribution type type deal. I don't but I mean that that's my theory. I don't think that it I don't think we're gonna see Delta Born grow to be Sierra Nevada, not just because they're them, but I don't think we're gonna see a real bar get there. I mean, okay, well get to the size of the new glory.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

So Atis has reached what size? Or how many years rather?

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Oh, almost size. Uh seven, just other seventh years.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Seven years. So and uh it sounds like they may have expansion plans, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:45

They are always looking for a separate location that would be like a restaurant slash uh town.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Uh I think in this age you can still start small. I think expansion is now a little bit more risk adverse and it's not easily rushed into because we've seen what rushing into expansion does to an old republic, to a Rubicon, even back, you know, God's a lot of people. Those were the OGs maybe ten years.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

The original rushers, the original ones that went hard and over expansion is definitely a problem, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:22

You you look at your your fieldworks, your humble seas, who have five plus locations in California, those were done relatively strategically, right? You built a great brand, you had some distribution and you picked your spot. You picked where you were gonna go. Um I will say I think that a microbrewery, you know, the scale of um the scale of a Deltaborne or the scale of a balanced beer works has the capacity to survive whether or not they expand becomes more a risk factor. Uh when craft beer was booming, obviously you had that constant, constant demand, right? You had you you couldn't keep beer in cans, you had to keep it going.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

If you had a West Coast on tap, it was gone.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

Um But I also think that starting big is probably a more common playbook. I think one of the most successful brewery rollouts I've witnessed in my lifetime, and you were talking, you know, maybe a little more recent memory, five between five and ten years, is uh revision brewing. You took the former owner of Needy Brewing, who had industry connections, he had you know the the ability and knowledge to run a large scale brewery. He opened in Sparks, Nevada, and immediately rolled out distribution to multiple cities, very large upfront build, upfront brewing capacity. Distribution from the get-go, and it was very successful, at least in our scene. And I had recently seen um an article of their partnering with a distributor in San Francisco. So they are still expanding in a sense.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

So I think when did they first open?

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Ooh, I have to Google that. I think it was before Bella was born.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Uh revision brewing. I want to say they've been around longer than we think.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

I feel like I feel like definitely at least seven years.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Yeah, so I'm thinking post-COVID. 2015. Yeah, it's been 11 years. So goddamn. So I think they've so I'm I'm talking like what brewery since COVID has opened up and really expanded?

SPEAKER_02 44:58

In Sacramento? Geist House is one of the largest largest commitments.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

What was it?

SPEAKER_02 45:05

I said that Geist House is probably the largest commitment we've seen locally.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

But they haven't really started to distribute.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Yeah, but that's that's a hard market to get into now because you said we're not moving beer. I think honestly, you're more likely to be you know individually successful with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Which means I don't think you're gonna see that massive growth anymore, like like you can be I think post-COVID that growth aspect, I don't think it's really viable. I think that those those have to be organic. Well, of course, even even pre pre-COVID it was. But do you I remember when we were getting hyped on on craft beer back in 2014.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

We love we like we we we would brew into any cool, unique thing. I mean right-eye brewing.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

A new reopening and beer and hindsight, but they were good because of the experience.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

But uh there I I remember that feeling of this this place, like they opened up in some warehouse in some random Susan City some random neighborhood at uh Gas City, like it could they have the potential to be big players, like anyone's game right now, yeah. If you do it right, you know, the you could explode and and become become a real namesave, but I don't I just don't feel that same like a sense of optimism and hope for a new brewery opening up. I th I think of like with balance opening, I'm like, good for you, buddy. Like I I am I'm very interested in trying your beer. Um I think that you will be that size forever.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Yeah, and I don't think that's a bad thing personally. I think a neighborhood brewery has better uh ROI on a pint of beer than a distributed beer does, because as a distributed beer you're competing with thousands of other breweries as uh neighborhood beer. You can charge your, you know, in California up to nine dollars a pint if your urban roots uh urban roots come out.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Even more.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

But uh you're gonna make a better return on that that pint of beer if you're selling it from your own tap room. You're not purchasing a keg, you're producing said keg. You've you've made a better return. And I think that is more sustainable. I think it's a better floor plan, and I think distribution is a risky expansion ceiling play in the modern era of having great beer everywhere. I mean, not everywhere. There's there's there's still pockets of the US that require uh better beer tastes, but those markets aren't ready for the same beer tastes.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

I was gonna say um when we were out in uh Joshua Tree area, there just weren't craft beer choices. It was like a craft beer desert. It was it was kind of wild.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Yeah, um I've I've driven through rural Wyoming. Um There's places that uh Galaxy Allegian Galaxy Space Space Dust is the uh only craft beer, and that's because it's just you know we gotta add one tap for the weird IPA guy in town.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Uh who's drinking that? That's a risky pour right there. When's the last time that was clean? Um Yeah, no, so I I I know I I would you agree though that in 2026 if a brewery is opening up it's it there just isn't that potential anymore. That we are uh we're at a point where you you get what you started with.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Yeah, it it has to be truly special beer to to rise and even then it to to expand like that becomes such a risk that it's like if I'm succeeding at the size I am, I'm probably gonna stay here. Not gonna sell my rights, not gonna, you know. And we've seen now with the twenty first amendment uh purchase that even the larger distributed brands are now just kind of being distributed on a namestake alone. How long are these gonna you know ride the coattails of their their phone?

SPEAKER_01 49:39

So that's a that's a whole different course uh discussion right there, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Um you said this was an upfront investment in a large distribution.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

But you're you're still riding on the coattails of something else. You're not building something new. And there's talk about Anchor Steam reopening and coming back.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Yeah, I saw that Anchor, like that's that's the other one.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

We're now just kind of recycling legacy brands triplicate for the yeah. The clockwork triplicating uh formerly successful breweries now for the distribution and the shelf life. Um it's interesting. I think uh I think the neighborhood brewery is the way to go. I don't think that you're gonna reach a Sierra Nevada level of success in 2026. Granted, I would love to be pleasantly surprised.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Oh, I would love if Guy's towns got there. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Like there are large there are large breweries that are going out of business, so pockets and opportunity will come up.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

As, you know, these breweries pass the torch as the the you know owners of old retire and you know enjoy the fruits of their labors and hopefully enjoy their own big things.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

But what's interesting is new Helovisha sticking around still. I I thought they'd be dead by now, but they're still somehow kicking. It it's it's kind of like uh good for them. What's a good analogy for for New Helvetia?

SPEAKER_02 51:09

A tardigrade?

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Maybe? I don't it I get knocked down. I get up. Little chumbowumba? Little chumble yeah, uh new hellvisha is the chumbewumba brewery. Uh one at wonder with uh they they just stick around. Um I think that I think that yeah, I think we agreed on on how the the current state of craft beer is, but what do you think out there? Do you think that uh new breweries have that same potential that they felt like they did way back in the the year of 2015 or 2016, 10 years ago, when it seemed like if you open up a craft brewery, you are poised, potentially poised, to make a lot of money because everybody wants too much of it. Um we don't think that it's the same type of uh potential, but hey.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Um craft seltzeries, alright.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

Oh my goodness, that has to be something we talked about is the the 2021 craft seltzer boom that the white claw era of alcohol sales. Yeah. And like uh wine coolers and Smyrnoff ice first came out and dominated for a bit.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

Um it has to have been kind of a crazy that happens, which is a crazy thing in my brain, to think that Smiranoff ice are still consumed in 2026.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Yeah. There's gotta be something that's that's there's a reason why the US is the only country that consumes those. Like there's gotta be like a die in in Smirnoff that just can't be in Europe or something.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

There's there's a bad joke in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Yeah, somewhere. Um But I think I think we covered it. I think uh unless you have any final thoughts on what a new brewery can do to like to prove us wrong, if you're gonna tell a brewery how to open up in 2026 and then potentially become uh huge, what would you say?

SPEAKER_02 53:36

Nationally distributed. What do you need to do as a young brewery to become even regionally distributed at this point? Give me how how do you hit five states? I I would be curious what the strategy is, because you can't just be the same thing, right? It either has to be you know, maybe the the Indiana logger that was uh associated with the recent Natty run where you you you capture the the beer drinking of uh a sports team. Is it is it a viral TikTok sensation?

SPEAKER_01 54:15

I don't feel like I don't think that's the answer. I'm gonna be completely honest. I don't think a TikTok is gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Yeah, Gen Z is not drinking beer as much, so but uh I mean is it craft sodas? Or is it uh buzzballs? Or are we in our buzzball era? Um I hope not. Craft buzzballs? Craft buzz balls, Jesus Christ. Do not craft malt liquor beer in a plastic.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

We're getting to craft malt liquor as what we're doing. We keep the hops out.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Were you there when we had the one at uh CapTap? It was uh Molhort bare-aged malt liquor or something, and it was actually decent. They had orange juice in it, which was not advertised, and the orange juice made it taste good. But uh yeah, there's there's some weird shit. Um but yeah, I don't I don't know. Let us know if uh you think I I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

I I I do agree that it if you if you want to start and you want to be big or have the possibility of getting big, start distributing. But I would also add to that, like have a have a mindset that you're gonna start distributing as much as you can, but build a core base around your tap room. Have hire on that guy that will or gal or the the person um I don't want to gender so much. Uh someone that will be there with the idea of I am going to be focused on spreading this product as far and wide as I can, but then have someone else focusing on that home location that will then focus on that environment and that that culture that even in the hard times when uh maybe beer just isn't selling, you still have that mainstay, that that that crowd that comes back again.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Yeah, be it be a field work or be a be a humble seat. I think that is the model. Um you become, you know, state and then uh maybe the world.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

And then the universe. And that brings us to the end of the beer me cast here, this episode. Thank you guys for listening. Um if you'd like, you can follow us on Instagram at BeerMecast. You can also email us at beermecast at gmail.com. Uh we are going to be talking about beer coming up in a little bit, and we've talked about beer. And so that way you can uh you can you can learn more about beer or just uh you know waste some time listening to guys waffle about crazy. Send us your yeah, send us your questions.

unknown 56:51

What do you want to hear us talk about?

SPEAKER_01 56:53

You can hear us anywhere. So if you're hearing us now, you can hear us while you're hearing us, but don't forget you can hear us other places. Um just like we always wrap up an episode, thank you for listening and uh go out and try beer. Cheers.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

Cheers.