Hops and Folsom VS Auburn

This week the lads talk hops and discuss the craft beer differences between Folsom CA and Auburn CA. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Audience. The butt. The butt. The butt. The butt. The butt. A butt. A butt. I'm gonna I I ran out of shit, so I'm gonna have Jackson edit out this whole pause. Jackson, you can edit this edit the pause. I randomly to talk about it. Yeah, so I mean I I I just find it interesting that like you have such a such a large amount of beer drinking in the state, and one of the more affluent parts just lacks.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Yeah. Just lacks. Well, you're putting the the cart before the horse. We're gonna talk about that later. Let's talk about the um uh what Nofu?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

I do wanna it's Nofo Bruco. And I need to know why a Georgia brewery has their uh logo on front of shirt for Walsall.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah, and Walsall, what what what league are they? Are they League One? Are they championship? Are they league two?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

It's if it was a friendly versus Astonville, and I don't quite have the football knowledge to know how friendlies cross leagues.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

I mean it could be full league one or league, it could be a bunch, especially for for for friendlies, like I think Walsall is Walsall Premier. No, they're not Premier. Unless they just got promoted, I'm just like not.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Wallsaw C Premier League. No, they're EFL League 2. Okay. No wonder they got the shit beat out of another friendly. 5-0.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah, well, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

And one of the guys who scored twice is a 17-year-old who looks like he is in his mid-20s and peak condition. That dude is huge.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

You see that randomly. Um, you see, like, for instance, I mean, I guess Max Dowman doesn't look so old, but you get these players and you're like, yeah, they're like young. It's like, oh, look at the lad out there, he's 15 years old playing in the Premier League. It's like what? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Oh, oh, you mean you mean you you don't think he looks 15?

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Like he looks like he's totally exactly and then it's like, oh, he's been in the league for a couple years, and you're looking at him like, yeah, he looks kind of, you know. I can see that. It's like, and he just turned 17. It's like, whoa, what? That's a that's a man.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yeah, I was looking at the uh the recent loan slash option for full-time contract for Garnacho, and dude's 22, and he's already had like a meteoric rise and fall at 22. I'm like, Jesus Christ. I've been playing professionally since he's like 11. That's that's that's dedication.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Can happen just like that. Um, but um, I I I just took a sip of my uh my beer of cast, and I can't wait any longer. And because of that, I'm gonna let you know that you're here listening to the beer me cast. That's right. That's what we talk about. Beer It's Cardinate Conversation. My name's Jackson, I'm a confidence as always and as ever by Mark Zanferdino. How I I think we're both a little fried today, but how are you doing? How's it going?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Uh you know, just just uh just you know with the the establishment and uh you know the man trying to enjoy enjoy enjoy beer to to forget about the man trying to keep us down. As all beer should be enjoyed. All beer should be enjoyed with a slight just irritation toward uh a man of some sort.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Turn my camera for just a second here. Uh so we're gonna talk about beer of cast, and then we're gonna talk about um some fun stuff like Auburn versus Wholsom. We kind of hinted at that, and then hops. We'll hop into hops, hey but you hop to hops. Um, but beer of cast, um I am drinking a beer from a bottle that I've poured into a cut into a glass, as you can see. This is what it looks like.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

It's a uh little amber in coloration.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Amber lager with Assam black tea. It's called toast tea, it's the name of the beer. And I believe it's by a brewery called Ugly Half. And it was brewed in Taiwan on Wangsan Road, Wugu District, New Taipei City, Taiwan, 248. Imported into LA. Um and it smells like a Budweiser. It tastes like a this is a beer, man. Like this is like this is like it tastes just like a uh American beer, like you rank like you wrangle Clydesdale's. Yeah, like it's just like in your face, but like the bottle art so cutesy. Yeah, it looks like someone drew it on a napkin. Yeah, and like and then it like you can see every like the logo for the brewery is this little circle thing and a lot of writing in Taiwanese or whatever. Um and it says Wait. In English. Is it Thai is it is it Chinese and Taiwan? Or I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Taiwan is Taiwanese, Thailand would be Thai? Oh my god, we we sound real white right now.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah, this is bad. Let's just keep going. Um so the the the bottle says, where do all the crusts go? Question mark. We asked our local breakfast shop and ended up with this. Toasty is a multi a sam-infused lager brewed with the missing edge of your sandwich. Breakfast has come full circle to hit you to hit your evening spot too. So they're using the crusts of bread, and then you when you look at the logos, two women walking with bread.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

I mean it sounds resourceful. Um do you get any tea is my question? You said it tastes like a beer.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Uh surgeon. No. Well, hmm. No, wait, wait. That was a big step. Give me give me have another uh this is great for for an audio audience. Um this is gonna be a big step, and uh I'm just gonna hold on to it for a second.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Let it let it steep. Let it steep in there.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Okay. Um part of the aftertaste is like b bitter black tea.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Okay, so instead of a hot having a tea bitter.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

If you ever had like uh Earl Grey without anything in it, and had it soak for a really long time, sucked the bag of Earl Grey tea. It's there's a very bitter tart bitter, not tart, bitter pucker mouth mouth puckering, dry flavor. And there's just a little bit of that, but then there's so many bittering hops to it. Interesting. Well, it's a very carbonated. Um it's so bitter from hops in the back, but like that's blending in with a malt bill, and it's a bitter malt bill. Kind of like a really sharp pilsner, like a really in-your-face pilsner. Um it doesn't taste roasty after saying all that. Like it's an am it's an amber, but it's it's like I I wouldn't believe that's an amber if I was doing this blindfolded.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Um yeah, you always wonder about like the brewing style and you know abilities when you take a beer from international, because a lot of times with an international beer, it's not what you expect from American beer. I mean, even if you just go south of the border to Mexico, they're they're a little lower carbonated lower carbonation. Um you know, they they're brewed in a warmer climate. So something rude with what sounds like uh leftover tea and bread scraps to to come out tasting a uh from what you described like a American lager is an interesting an interesting jump.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah, and it's 5.2%.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

I would assume being that it's from an Asian country, rice might be within the grain bill as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

I can believe that. I can ta like you you know when you when you drink a Budweiser. If if I don't remember last time I did, but that this must be that that flavor. The rice the rice mixed with the Pilsner malts to create this type of the bread crusts. I wish I tasted them more. I mean I need to look into this a little bit more. Ugly half. Um honestly I didn't read anything about it. I just thought it was a lager and uh it was I was at uh 99 cent or 99 ranch and um I got I just want to get a beer in a bottle that was a little different, definitely not from the US, not even brewed by a US brewery, like imported. Um just uh try something a little different. And I have and I do have two beers of cast, but I I will I'll get to that one after you do your beer of cast, but it's uh it's in the same vein. Um it's more traditional if you know this beer.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yep. Yeah. One of my favorite to uh actually have with um Thai food typically. I believe I served it at the worst time I went to in Berkeley. I think it's the last time I had it was in Berkeley, actually, um regarding your beer. But for my beer of cast, I uh I was being a bad craft beer enthusiast. I had a fridge that contained only four bottles slash cans of beer, and all those were ones I was saving. Um we we try to come back once in a while, and if it's in the fridge, I'm gonna want to drink it. So an empty fridge is uh a good deterrent. Anyway, I went to uh the least craft beer place you should buy craft beer, and that is Bevmo.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yeah, no hundred percent. And why is that, Mark?

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Um I well, I went to pick up a claimstake, and I did date check before I bought it, and it's not terrible, but a local brewery having an April 2nd canning date. Not the greatest. I got their one spot, Sacramento style IPA, and while it's a great beer, you can tell it's kind of been on a shelf, even though it was cold stored when I bought it. That doesn't mean it was cold stored for the majority of its time in Bevmo. And then I got some Alligash White as well, which is never a bad if you're gonna if you're gonna go to a Bevmo, just just don't grab an IPA is my advice. I mean, grab grab a lager. Grab some something that's you know gonna taste fine with some age. Alligash white, never a bad beer to go to.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Um something aged in barrels with you know too many additives.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

I mean that being said, the one spot Sacramento style IPA, which I like that they put that. I I appreciate Claimstake for their their Sacramento homage. Um it's it's just a good beer. Their one spots, you know, one of their flagships, and good good show 5PA. I mean, I'd give it a solid because of the the backdating and because of Bevmo's handling, it probably knocks it down to like a 6.5, but normally this beer's an easy 7.5.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

And I didn't rate mine, but I don't know if I can.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Um was it enjoyable? I saw your face at the end of the bottle there.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, it's the last sip was uh some sediment. So it was uh it was just bitter, it was really dry.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Well, maybe you got the tea, uh the tea droppings that sell to the bottom.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

The tea leaves.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Um would buy again or would not buy again. Give me give me a pass or fail.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Would I buy it again? I mean I would buy it again. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

It's it's drinkable. It's it's it's it's a beer that you would drink.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean I I finished it. Like I there wasn't there was not there was not a uh thought that I wasn't going to finish it.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Not to drain pour, which is always, you know, at the bare minimum beer should be.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Yeah. That's fine to do if you need to. Um yeah, it's 6.9. Nice. Um and I've moved on to the Sing Tao.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah, Sing Tao, I I honestly, to be fair, if we're talking Asian loggers versus Mexican loggers, it's a hard conversation to have. And I think maybe we have time on this podcast to have that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Oh, dude, this is good. This is just good. And and I think after coming from uh something that was a little more in my face, this doesn't have like an off-putting macro beer flavor, you know. Like I think even though this wasn't this the the the the first one wasn't the toast tea by ugly half brewing, in no way is that a macro beer, but it tasted of macro influence. And sing tao, like this is just it's just crisp, you know, 4.7, not doing anything crazy. It it's it's supposed to compliment a meal.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Yeah, no, that's for our viewers of of this for ten bucks, like yeah, for for our viewers, uh Sacramento has been in the 90s or above lately. And uh there's nothing more refreshing than it and the the time I will advocate for having a freezer cold glass is for drinking an Asian lager, be it a sahi, be it Sapporo, Kieran, Sing Tao, uh you name it. If you put it in a cold glass and you drink it, I mean I I would argue there aren't very many lagers better than an Asian style lager. Um matter where you come from.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

That crisp refreshing type flavor that I I search for with a good cream ale. Yeah. Um not quite the same because these are these are definitely more uh crisp and they are lacking a little bit in mouthfeel.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Um, and that's kind of what's perfect about it. They're crisp, they they're refreshing, and then they pretty much go away for the most part.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah, no, it doesn't linger. Um doesn't linger like uh like uh what's her face? Um the Lance Morset, right? Or is that yeah, Lance More.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

I thought you were gonna say it's Trump at the uh World Cup stage.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Oh god, no, no, we don't have to talk.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

We don't have to talk about talking about lingering. Just Photoshop them out.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

And good on Spain, though. Good on Spain for winning.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Um yes, congrats, Spain. Uh, we haven't talked a lot of World Cup now that it's wrapped up.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Uh I had the ide I would I okay peel back the curtain here. My big idea that I want to do for this episode had to do with the World Cup final having just occurred, and I I got 70% of the way to having this come to fruition, but I had a mystery beer for you, which doesn't have to do with the World Cup, but I wanted you to have a interesting, like random kind of th task to do in the podcast that we haven't done in a little bit. And I wasn't gonna have a I I was not gonna have a beer. I was gonna have the drink of Messi. And I didn't get the last I didn't get the last thing for it. So the next episode, I'm gonna have what Messi drinks when he when he has alcohol. And um pretty stoked for it. And uh I think he probably had quite a bit of it post-game.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

You mean it's you mean it's not a Mi Clib Ultra like the commercials would have instead?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

It's not, he doesn't drink Mi Club Ultra. You know, I don't think he drinks beer, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

I mean, honestly, with the the amount of uh athleticism you have to achieve, especially as you're aging in a sport, uh alcohol is not conducive to being a top flight athlete. Uh depending on the sport. Maybe if you do arm wrestling or you know, slap if you do uh thumb wars professionally.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

But um no, it's bad for the joints. And and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

It's uh I haven't been drinking this week in my tendons shot, so you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna stick to the beer.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah, just just just man might as well. I was gonna say I I watched an interview with uh Bam Margera. Oh god uh was an alcoholic for so long and went back to skateboarding and because of his opportunity. Good for him because he was you know, looking like he was gonna just in the 30s. Um now he's back to skateboarding, but his doctor's like, yeah, because of all that drinking, your your like tendons are just like dried up, like dried rubber bands. You've gotta like stretch and like really do some stuff.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Um whoever designed humans just just just really messed up with the whole tendon thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Freaking freaking gad, you fucking sick.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Uh if we're made in his image, that man must be bed bedbound by now because the tendons have to be gone. Yeah, made in his image. Sorry, Lord. That's a money blessed.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

That's a messed up. That's a messed up dude. Um how dare he? Or she or they.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Um it's our suffering, it's our penance. You have to live with tendons.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Oh man. Uh but hey, you know, um let's talk about let's talk about beer in depth. Let's like let's really peel back the curtain on beer. Let's let's talk about what separates the beer from just being a a another alcohol, you know, being malt liquor, being there's something that you add in that changes everything, and that is the the love. No, it's it's the hops. I mean you put the hops in there and it and it changes. It becomes something else.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Uh you know, the Ryan Heitz combine, like hops were even above yeast because they didn't know what the hell yeast was. I mean, it was water, malt, yeast. Water barley yeast. I mean at one point I think wheat wasn't even involved in it because it was more of a food, you know, agricultural kind of law than it was, you know, beer. But to this day, Reinheitskebot still persists. And, you know, obviously when they discovered what was making the beer beer, yeast got included. But yeah, hops was one of the big three water, barley, hop. Uh, you know, and hops from the time of Reinheitskebot from the early, early days of brewing have I would say exponentially increased in uh any way. Uh the amount that's added to beer, the amount of which they're bred, the amount of which they're grown. Um I I don't know. The Reinheitsgebot. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Can you speak for for those that I know?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah, or for those that don't know the Purity the German purity law. And I know when you hear German purity law, people's people's bubbles clench. This is way before that. Way before that, and you just start quoting the late 1400s, early 1500s, they recently celebrated a 500-year anniversary, so you know, this predates other German purity policies. Uh but it was a policy um, you know, back when agriculture and yeah, there weren't FDA, there were no food laws. There this was this was the law of how do we brew this and have some sort of control. I mean, this is one of the earliest forms of control in the in an industry where you're required to use these these three ingredients. The only these three.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

And then whatever magic thing that came down from the heavens and made turn alcoholics because it is it is funny to think about like who would be the people that would take this and make it into like in like rules and very strict that we take it and you not you don't do you don't don't go willy-nilly and do whatever you want. You must do exactly how I say. Like they they took something that was probably just like goofy fun and Hey and let's let's make this beverage and get drunk. Like we must make sure this is scientific.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Like make like why not throw why not throw an orange? Nine. Nine orange. I don't know if oranges were there in the 1500s. I mean honestly, the a historian would be better at this than us, obviously. Look at your history. There's plenty of uh literature on this. But yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

I know I know earlier than that, like I I know like how the first beer, like quote unquote beer came about, but um the rent of course the Germans had to make it as serious as a you know as a as a as a gunshot wound.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Yeah, and something that has persisted for longer than our country has existed. Is is is beer has these ingredients, and that is how important a hop is to beer.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

It's one of the main ghost, if you will. If we'll go back to the religion thing, you know, um, you've got uh the the the grain, that's the that's that's g that's gut. Water, that's uh Jesus, and then what is the third third one? The hops of the Holy Spirit. You know what I'm trying to say here. I I'm not religious by any means. I do apologize to those that are.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

I I uh uh apologies I I don't fucks with it, but um but also I think the whole trilogy thing is more of a Catholic thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Um but hey, beer is uh religious.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

So so hops predate America. Uh that's how important they are to beer. Um I mean that isn't America Well, America as we know it, you know, 1776, Eagles, shotguns.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Um the Philadelphia Eagles go birds. Is it Eagles? Are we is this the podcast in Philadelphia? It's just like hey, 1776, and then the next thing that happens after that date that's important, the Eagles. Jalen Hurts, go Burks. Oh big dick nick, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Um did beat Tom Brady, nothing more American than beaten Tom Brady. Uh I I will say that uh in regards to hops, seeing how historic they are, I felt that I feel they probably just didn't really they they remain pretty standard, I'd imagine, for uh centuries.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

That's a good question, because like the woo there's so many different varieties, you know, to go with which we'll get into a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah, if you look at historically, you have such a rigid brewing rules, brewing cultures, you imagine these hops were not crossbred, they were they were brewed to be a consistent addition to the body.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

But did they know about you know if they didn't know about yeast, did they know about the the you shouldn't crossbreed? You've got to use specific type soil to keep the same like I would imagine that they probably keep the same agricultural techniques down that kind of bred the same soil. Purposely cross-pollinating or purposely breeding hops at that day and age, I'd imagine there has to be these these intangible different variables that they weren't able to even think of because they didn't have the understanding that must have meant there were varying to some extent flavors coming out of these hops, and like I would I just would guess, I wonder what they thought of that, you know, like hey, uh the the we did the same thing we've been doing, but the the beer is now it's like it's more floral or like it's more this. Was there that like subtle change that that they were noticing?

SPEAKER_00 25:56

And and again, I I think I think the answer would probably be nine, because uh the hops weren't used in a a dry hopping fashion for beer. It was it was thrown in the boil as a preservative, you know. It wasn't it wasn't necessarily this flavor addition when Brie started it was hey, we find we put this in here, you know, it doesn't grow molder, you know, doesn't get funky everywhere. Granted, I'm sure in history there's been some weird shit that's happened with beer.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Is that actually true? I never really looked into that too deep. Do the I thought that that was like almost an old wives' tale that like hops don't necessarily they're not the reason for the preservation of beer in like travel, but it's just the alcohol content.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

The fact that there's alcohol that it doesn't alcohol, yes, the alcohol initially I think um it came later with uh shipping East India Trading Company. Uh the the whole IPA origin was when hops were found to have preservative effects. But you're right, back when it was just brewing, I don't know who decided maybe it was a flavor thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

I'll say even then I would like to know because I was saying even then when when it was transferred in the East India Tree, I I think that they they hopped the beers even more because they knew that well, at least they thought that well we we only add in the hops anyway because it preserves it longer, keeps it from from spoiling. Um we're gonna ship this way further. We gotta put way more hops in there in order to preserve but I don't think that's necessarily really the case. I think it is just the nature of it being alcohol that it will keep better than just standard water. But I I don't know if that's completely true. Like that that's the thing I I mean I'd I don't I'd want to dive deeper into to confirm, but I remember hearing it's an old wives tale that the hops don't actually do that.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

But um what I what I would posit would be the adding these hops, I mean, if you look at history, we have a history of steeping, you know, herbs, flowers into you know teas, tinctures, remedies. I would honestly posit that when it came to brewing beer, the hops were added probably primarily for flavor, but the way brewing is done, I don't believe people would have bread hops for the flavors, as least in the way we know to use hops for flavor today. I don't think we would have used hop buds for you know the loopulin for the for that dry hopping. It would have been more so for more of a tea, I would imagine more of a tea kind of situation where they're like, hey, if we steep this plant while we boil this barley and then we let it sit for a while, it creates this. Like I would honestly because you can create a beer without hops at all. I mean that yeah it's sacral, but yeah. Yeah, but it's it's very possible to create a fermentable beer. Yeah, with zero. So so when when beer became labeled as hey, this is a thing we can repeat as humankind, I imagine hops were part of the process because it added some sort of addition, be it that bitterness that we know about.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

So, okay, so I looked that up. I don't actually know that the sources okay, the sources here hopalliance.com, Eureka Brewery, and Brow Brewer, which is um, so source those sources say that hops are a natural preservative as they contain alpha and beta acids that have antibacterial properties. So that the acids have that.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

And then get brewed.com states that it became a uh it was known to be used in the brewing process primarily to keep the beers clean from bacteria, but also British brewers in the 18th century started heavily hopping their October ale to preserve it for long trips on the voyage to India, which is why it's the IPA. Um, so there are qualities to it. I just I just wonder like but that came about in the eighteen hundreds.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

So we're talking fifteen, sixteen, seventeen hundreds. Why did they throw hops in? It it was in again, this is hypothesis. It had to have been for either flavor or for you know some perceived notion of what it did for a beer. Be it be it a observation that the beer seemed to go bad less quickly. It's possible that was observed back then, or it could have been simply for you know, this you know, we soak leaves for tea, this is what we put in when we do beer. But but something was valid enough for them to codify that in, you know, Renheitskabot. So some something about hops has always been important to beer.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

And let's fast forward to I was gonna say before we fast forward too far, you just poured a beer.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

I did. It's another one spot. Oh, okay. I was gonna say um this is the number two spot.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

So if you want to talk about that, I'm gonna be right back. Sure thing. You can carry on. Speaking of hops.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Um But yeah, I I think I think that uh hops have served a very standard purpose for beer for a very long time. But I do want to say what are we using hops for now? Uh as of the twentieth century. Because, you know, we we've lived long enough to exist in multiple multiple centuries now. We're pretty we're pretty ancient. They call us millennials for a reason.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah, and uh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um but yeah, so we talk about modern just just the use for for I mean, okay, so yeah, like quick history.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Modern modern craft beer, 80s. You know, we start adding hops to shit, beer starts tasting different than your standard macro lager. People are like, we want to try something that really hurts us.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

You know, I mean it's not like spice, right? And it was like if you have something spicy, right? It's not inherently a good experience for the bottom like humans are masochistic.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Capsasin is is something that when it's ingested, the body's supposed to go, no, no, no, don't want that. But we're sadistic little bitches. And we we love that shit, and we say, more please, daddy. And that is why we keep it.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

I swear to god, timeout. I swear to god, that is something that Tom Segura has said like verbatim, what you just said. Oh, really? And I need to find the clip. I will clip this and send it to you if I find it. But I swear to god, you just you just activated a memory of watching a Tom Segura clip.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Uh I I I I take that as a compliment. I've never watched a stand-up, but I I I think that's probably good. Um but we we we are we're gross little little fucks, and and it's not just you know spice, it also comes into uh play when it comes to uh sour.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

You know, we're bitter spicy.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

We love we love that we love that sour. You know, we want to get get more of that, we want to get that flavor profile, but we talk about the bitter when we talk about beer, and and for so long we've just tried to go crazy, you know, like in craft beer, yes, arrogant bass. Double, double bastard, and then going above that to ascend beyond that plane of existence and bitterness. We've got dogfish head coming out with beers that are like not even drinkable because of how bitter they are just breaking the record. Uh I forgot about that for a minute. Is the IBU is just to measure this this craze. So it's it is inherently supposed to not be something that humans want to consume. When something's bitter, it's supposed to be a warning of poison and do not do this, do not ingest this.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

The plant doesn't want you to be the evolutionary, yeah, the evolutionary deterrent.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

We're little freaky little little guys, you know. We're a little we'll we're a little like a little harder, you know, like just just a little bit harder. Um, I know safe word with that shit, and we just keep piling it in. And that's that isn't in a nutshell how crap beer got got to where uh it eventually did with the the IPA.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

I mean, so the the proliferation of the West Coast IPA was the movement that took hops, realized they were bitter, and said, give me more. You had, you know, uh obviously Sierra Nevada with with their paleo, which was more bitter than anything that was on the market at the time, that came to become a staple. And then you had Torpedo, and then, you know, uh fucking Bigfoot. Bigfoot is even to me still not my most still not my favorite barley wine. Uh I prefer more of an English style. I like the more malt base versus the the hop slap in your face. But then you also had things like Green Flash and uh Green Flash Burring had this is an early beer memory. And I think there's a picture of it on my Instagram somewhere. They had a Road Warrior rye IPA, and that dryness of the rye mixed with that West Coast hop was one of the first times I drank a bitter IPA and said this shit, this shit right here.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

This shit slaps.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

I like this shit. That's your code. A road Road Warrior IPA, named after a post-apocalyptic movie from Mad Max? Yeah, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Mad Max Road Warrior.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Yeah, I thought you were leading me on like a beer, a beer literally named after what I assume, assuming they named it after a Mad Max movie because it was such an assault on your palate. It was it was rye, it was hot bitterness, it was alcohol, ABV, you know, probably in seven or so at the time, which was probably high for the time.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Not that we had desensitized to that and drink, you know, 12% beers now, but yeah, I was gonna say, like, um yeah, uh before we we got on the castle saying that I was talking with old assistant brewer baddies, Joe Borrow, and current assistant brewer baddies, Cooper, uh oh my god, Valencia? Yeah. Um all of us three been have been assistant brewers, and me and Joe just reminiscing about the the day we brewed without the master brewer, Mike Conrad, and it was the Nighthawk, the double black rye IPA.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Yes, good beer.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Um that beer can get it any day of the week. And um it was because it had that that it was a little bit higher in ABB, but it had that rye, dry bitterness along with uh Centennial hops and citra.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

And you said black IPA, so I assume black malt, not roast because you don't want the sweetness.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

There's some yeah, it was it was black, it was it was dark malts. Um I can't I can't remember the I can't remember the number of things.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Alright, we gotta find that rye bill.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

I can easily find it. I could just talk to Mike and find the recipe, uh save it, and we'll do a homebrew of it. Uh because everything's kept in a in a little as it should be.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Uh documentation and history are important in beer, as as we well know, on the beering cast. We we like historical beer stuff.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

I'll say um brewing half of it was recording all the little details of each brew on how it was a little different than like the last one. Um but we're talking about hops though.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

So we went from we went from Sierra Nevada to Greenflash. Greenflash might have been a bit a step ahead, but that was just because I had a good memory of that pop up in my brain. Uh you had Sierra Nevada, and then obviously the the proliferators of bitter West Coast IPAs, Stonebrewing.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Speakeasy. Oh yeah, Stone Brewing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Uh just just just literal arrogance in a bottle.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

I mean it was it was it it took what Syria Nevada was doing, and I don't know if that was their influence per se, but assume, you know, beer kind of crosses through geography and and California.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

I mean also like because they did that, but they also they they didn't just make it some weak ass small thing. You know, like they they they made it have some some character to it.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

They took what Sierra Nevada was doing, and they're like, nah, I want this bigger and bitter and hoppier. And I mean, thus the West Coast IPA was born. Uh and through much of that period, up through the boom in the 2000s, 2010s, West Coast IPA slowly, slowly started fading into hey, hops can be used to make shit taste really good. It could taste fruity, it could taste citrusy. You get influences from the Northeast, from Vermont, from you know, uh Heady Topper, um Treehouse Burring, I believe. I'm blinking right now. But but you had these influences kind of start to cross the country where these palettes were different, but the hops were available, and then people realized, oh yo, hey, this is this little hop thing. There's a huge market and a huge ability to use this for more than just preserving a beer or for more than just making it bitter. Granted, there were plenty of breeds that were done specifically to brew up just just to pump the alpha acids out of a hop bud. What did I use once? I think it was called Warrior. It was like 20% alpha acid I did in the homebrew. And like, you know, a little bit goes a long way. Yeah, a little bit of those those alpha acid heavy hop varieties that were grown specifically for bitterness were used, but people also realized oh, this hop, this this cascade, this centennial, they have some kind of pine. Can we get other flavor compounds through crossbreeding through through different things? And one of the early successes Citra was born.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Yep, yep. Which and aside from that, um I had a beer that had spicy nettle tips.

unknown 41:50

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Like pine tips.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

I've heard of rose hips. And it's Pennsylvania Texedo?

SPEAKER_01 41:58

No.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Who does the Pennsylvania Textedo? Is that Founders or is that I can find the name of it though.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

It was it was a Taverfish Head. Taver delivery.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Okay. Um I'm pretty sure Dogfish Head has a Pennsylvania tuxedo, if I'm not mistaken. It's gonna you Google that, I'm gonna Google this for our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Stinging Okay, there were stinging nettles.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Um is that to achieve the bitterness?

SPEAKER_01 42:20

It was herbed or sperbed beer by Machine House Brewery in Seattle, and it was to achieve what what I can only explain to be not spice, even though it says herbal and spiced, because it it's not not herbed, it's not not spice, but it's also not. Um it was the flavor of habanero. So we've had a beer from uh Ried Eye Bury that was an actual amber ale with habaneros, but you got the spice from it. This was stinging nettles, and it just imparted the flavor of habanero. And it's just weird shit like that. Just remind me of when we're you know we're bringing up pops and trying to impart different flavors, but like to get flavors, but man, have we come a long way with hops? When we got that citra going, and you start to think, is there orange in here, but there's not. When you got the the centennial, and you think, did I put a pine tree in here? It's like, nope, I did not. Um man, the funky flavors we get from hops now.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Yeah. And uh I'm just gonna dive in to to my single flavor hop. Enigma. You're an enigma guy. And and I'll tell you why. Every time I've had a beer with Enigma. It's it's been enjoyable. It's a complexity that's hard to pinpoint down. Obviously, oftentimes they're mixed with other hops. So I don't know if I've ever I think I've had one single hop Enigma beer. I believe it was from New Glory. I'm gonna have to go back in the archives for that one.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Sounds sounds like something they do.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Yeah, but but just the the complexity of flavors that come out of that. Um it's such a fun hop, and it's a it's a hop that uh Fieldwork Brewing I have found uses more than most of the other breweries in our area.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Interesting, I don't know. Yeah, I I I could have I could have pinged that. I think if I'm thinking of my favorite hop. Man, should I be basic?

SPEAKER_00 44:54

No, do what you love, man. If if you see a hop on a beer can, what hop makes you go, I'm buying that?

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Okay. I got three answers. My basic answer. If I had to pick one hop that I would be like, yeah, I can use that for I want that to be in the majority of my beers. If I had to pick a hop that had to have a I'd pick mosaic.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Yeah, I mean it's a phenomenal hop. It's it's a it's a it's a stalwart in in the craft beer industry.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

But if I'm talking about like this hop makes me think I gotta get that one over another hop hop bill that doesn't have this one in it, Nelson Savon will usually sway me to get that beer over another. But the one that I'll get Motoeka. I love a good motue hop hop beer. It is it's just it's just so good. Like every beer I've had in Motueka is well rounded. It can be it can be by itself, it can be in a hop bill, it's it's a it's a New Zealand uh type hop, which is the same as Nelson Savon. Those are New Zealand hops. Um they're just it's just a damn good hop. It's not a hop that I can even place whether or not it I it's it's more dank than it is citrusy. That's more too.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

The way it's used dictates how it tastes, right? Is it is it a whirlpool, is it a dry hop, is it in the boil? Like a citra in the boil is not a beer I necessarily want to enjoy.

unknown 46:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

But a citra for dry hoping.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

You can put it in any any part of the brewing process and it's gonna do something dope. Um Nelson Savon, I would argue about the same. Mosaic, I I do prefer it as a uh as an aromatic hop, but it it it will it will it doesn't usually have as many as that much of a high alpha acid content, but you can put it into the into the boil, of course. Whirlpool hop, it's a great whirlpool whirlpool hop. Um but yeah, most quick can you put that that bitch anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

I put that shit on everything.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Yeah. That's like the it's the whatever whatever. The Frank's red hop of hops. I was gonna say, I'm like, what was what's the hot sauce? Because it used to be a tapatia but it sold out. Um anyway, yeah. No, uh it's it's just good shit. And then but that that's the thing, because you then you get weird combinations of hops, and I think if you put mosaic, motue, nilson, savant in one beer, I might die. I think I might die if that's if that there's gotta be beer like that. Um what is the weirdest flavor you've got from a hop before? Where it was like you know that the hops created this weird and not an off-flavor, because then we want to.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

No, yeah. Um this is an easy one for me. So back in uh uh college, we we started a little little homebrew club. Um my buddy Carl was the generative club, and uh he he had uh entered some beer in a homebrew competition. You know, I don't think it went anywhere, but part of the I think the participation prize or a prize for for joining it was a HBC five something or other. It was an experimental hop at the time, but we we brewed the hop, and we had we actually had had a brew that was done with the hop, and it was coconut. It imparted coconut and and not like this kind of reminds me of coconut. No, like like like like drinking coconut, and it was like did someone throw coconut in this one I was appointed?

SPEAKER_01 48:50

I I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

And and it was uh again at the time experimental hop because oftentimes, you know, it has to be financially viable. This is something we're gonna do. It comes into homebrew competitions, it circulates breweries. I I love experimental hops because one, I find when you're drinking an experimental hop beer, it's it's fresh, it's on tap. It's not something that's sad, it's not something that so you're you're getting the the intent of that hop pretty readily. But yeah, this this hop was it was it was it was woody, it was coconut, and it was such an interesting flavor to get out of a beer. Because like you said, we're used to to tropical, to grassy, to citrusy, to melon, even berry flavors. I mean all these that are kind of standard, but the hop it gave coconut. Yeah. And it was it was a fun it was a fun hop. And uh I I don't know if it ever came to commercial success. But I I think we need more and I think this is honestly what the the craft beer scene is lacking is just the the need for experimentation, need for ten gallon or one barrel batches of of something creative. Uh we've we've we've lost creative in the search of being financially sustainable, which is hard to do as a small brewery, as we well know. And the the early boom of craft beer let people do weird shit because people would buy it. It didn't have to be good. It didn't have to be something you ever want to try again, but people wanted to try it for just do something the artist. Yeah, it was it was a great, great time in beer to just have breweries put weird shit out to throw tea or peppercorns or whatever the hell you wanted in a beer, which we do have some adjunct some an adjunct episode.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Um mine, and I I I don't even know if the brewery knows how it happened because it was a part of the Alpha Society.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Oh, that wasn't from Hops, I don't think. I thought it was they thought it was from what you're thinking. You tell me, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

Is it is it the one that had the the um the flavor that they're like we don't know how this tastes like um absinthe?

SPEAKER_00 51:23

Yeah, so it was it it it it tastes like absinthe and they weren't it they said it was a I believe if I remember correctly, they thought it was a brandy barrel, but it came out with this the gin barrel aged beer in absinthe. It it had this herbal flavor, and I don't think even the brewers know, but I don't believe that was a hop edition. I think that was from the barrel aging, and they think they got a barrel that had aged something else that was not what they had expected, if I rec recall correctly. So I think that was a barrel edition.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

But one of the brewers I think thought absinthe, which makes a lot of sense, but then when it comes to the hop that imparts the most random flavor that I wasn't expecting. I'm gonna have to I thought Wow Fontina's talking. Um There was a beer from Texas. I don't remember if it was Augnews or if it was a different brewery there, but it's I mean we've all had beers with citral hops. But it honestly tasted like there had been a bunch of like orange pith added into the beer. It wasn't necessarily the best flavor ever, but it was just like, oh, they they must have like put a shit ton of oranges in this because I get this orange super bitter, like but like notably this is this has to have come from the fruit.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Um and it was just 100% Citra IPA, super, super bitter, super just like but it was just citr it was just citra. Like I even asked, I'm like, are you sure? Like I had that one, like yeah, that's just it.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

So I think that might be a case of citrus use in the boil, which is not a common, yeah. But that's the you're right.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

It's it's interesting to so that this like just imitated pith. Again, not like not like oh I think this is coconut. Like, uh I think this is like I was like, yeah, there's they added orange at like the wrong time to impart too much of the pith flavor of it. This is weird. I'm not a fan.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Sounds like when I add Serrano to a beer and it just tastes like green pepper.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Yeah, you gotta I think you gotta go for a a pepper that's not vegetab vegetal. Vegetal? Yeah. Vegetable. Vegetables. Um, but hey, hops, they make up beer, man. They they make up a lot of beer.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

And uh they do funky stuff, and maybe drop your favorite hop or drop a hop you think I've never heard of. I would love uh a hop trivia because honestly, I've fallen off of the hop train a bit, but I want to know the weird hops that are out there. I know there are some newer ones in the scene like Crush and uh uh Picherine. Uh there's there's some hops that float around now that I'm not as familiar with. Um I remember when guys. Yeah, send send us your hops and send us the beer that made you fall in love with that hop. I want to try all the hops.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

But now we want to talk real quick before I let you on out. Um in Sacramento, we're we're close to nature. You you can you can do a uh less than a mile, less than a mile, less than an hour drive out of the city center, and you can get to some fantastic hiking areas and the mountains and the foothills, but you're just actually really breathtaking mountains pretty pretty darn close.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

The foothills, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Yeah, you're you're probably gonna go to one of two different cities, or at least near them, because the two freeways, the the 80 and the 50, taking those directions, it's either gonna be Folsom or Auburn.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

And one thing either go up 50 or up 80, as you said.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

One thing that we want to discuss is that one of these two is a craft room mecha a big scene. Number of really great breweries, and the other one seems to be like where they expand and put their like tap rooms in. And we want to kind of like navigate that. Why is that just do a little bit of uh spitballing around here as to why Auburn owns Folsom in craft beer brewery? What what it what it what is up with that? Because I it doesn't seem like it should be that way. I I you know there is an old Auburn plug drive around. That's a good pour, he just poured a nice point. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Yeah, I'm showing Jackson my my my Stein of uh one spot and is a perfect two-finger head right to the rim.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Um beautiful two finger head right to the rim sounds like a euphemism. Um basketball I like I feel like Folsom has like a better old town type place than Auburn, but Auburn it doesn't that's not what matters, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Timeout, actually. So good good point of comparison. Uh Auburn and Folsom, both historical gold rushy type towns. Uh both have old downtowns as well as you know the surrounding suburb expansion, warehouse, etc. Uh, do we want to start Folsom first or do I start Auburn first? Should we uh put the the horse before the cart or talk about the empty cart?

SPEAKER_01 57:07

Let's talk about Folsom first.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Let's talk about That's kind of where I wanted to start. So Folsom is an area that uh the affluent flee up the hill so they can look down on the peasants. Uh that's an oversimplification. Anyway, Folsom has typically a decent amount they do. Folsom City Blues, uh Jenny Cash, shut up. Um Folsom is interesting. They they have a lot of affluence, a lot of neurodevelopment, a lot of, you know, charm from the foothills, but it's also a place where you know they allowed development to happen as the region grew and grew and grew, and people went up 50 to live in bigger houses with views of, well, now more fruit and more housing. Uh, but also a lot of businesses, a lot of great businesses. Uh shout out Redwood Barber Shop. It's uh one of the barbershops that my brother worked at before he moved to San Francisco and opened his own shop. And they just they have a lot of industry and people and you know, relative affluence.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

So it stems from the the gold rush establishing a good base of logging, creating the Folsom powerhouse that transmitted power down to the valley. Um it has its roots dug in, which is why it has the ability to do it.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Historical roots and modern modern expansion. A lot of a lot of crossover.

unknown 58:39

True.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

But but the the point is they're they have a large population base and a lot of businesses in all for all intents and purposes. I can name two what I would call grassroots breweries in all of Folsom. And that is Boring Rose, which is a very interesting uh brewery tap room. Very well done, but also kind of in the middle of a Folsom strip mall kind of situation, uh, which is not my favorite, I guess, the vibe for the kids. But when I went in there, it felt welcoming, it it felt honest, and the beer was really good. And then you have Redbus, which stems from homebrewing, from I believe it's not it's not Brewmeister, it's uh linking. Or is that the original Brewmeister?

SPEAKER_01 59:38

I think it is.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

Might be the original, might be the original Brewmeister. You're probably right, because I'm used to the the Westsack Brewmeister that closed down a while back. That's where I used to go. But yeah, so Red Bust Brewing, the Boring Rose, which is more recent of a brewery, but uh as far as population density and craft beer goes in California, Folsom is is is lacking in this innovation in this startup.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Oh, and uh I don't want to to bring the vibes down.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

But Brewmeister is permanently closed. The one that's across from from uh from Red Bus.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

I honestly I think I had heard a bit of a snippet about that. And I think that also kind of goes to you know the state of craft beer is is when craft beer started, everyone wanted to brew. And, you know, you had people who started from being home brewers who opened successful businesses to people who then started going to you know UC Davis and learning brewing sciences and opening businesses with you know a little bit more of that um expertise, so to say. And now opening a brewery not as viable a path, but you know, there are those who still persist see balance brewing. Uh I'm I'm hoping for their success. And yeah, Geist House for sure. Um it it is interesting to see, you know, where grassroots and the ability to make mistakes kind of allowed breweries like Bike Dog to take off, whereas you know, Geist House was more of a a large investment that uh you know, and I'm assuming a little more expertise. I don't know the full backstory on the owners of Geist House, but they have to have had some expertise because god damn those loggers are good.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

They just they uh they they slap. Yeah, so so why does Swolsom lack it's why why does Swolsom lack this grassroots, this this build your you know this entrepreneurship even? And then like Auburn in and it's not to go too quick, but like in the old old town, that's not where its breweries are, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

Like it's got one Auburn Alehouse down there, but like Which we could talk about because I I have opinions on Auburn Alehouse that I feel are contrary to a lot of modern opinions on Auburn Alehouse.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

But there's just as much random places in Folsom to have to have breweries, um just as much random warehouses. Because you go to Auburn and you've got just so many more in warehouses. They're not beautiful areas. In no way is the brewery Crooked Lane a gorgeous location.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

It's actually I would I would argue the opposite. I love Cricket Lane, but I'll we'll get into that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

It's an old car sales, you know, facility, but it's just in this lane of of of auto stuff. I I just it's not I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:55

It's it's it's so random to be there, but um we gave the spiel on Folsom. Let's give the Spiel an Auburn on Auburn.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

Yeah, so Crooked, Moonraker, uh Knee Deep. Yeah. Do we need to Argums on there? Auburn Alehouse. Um that's for they're all they're they're just these Titans, and they just kind of popped up in in warehouses and random places, and except for Auburn House, which is an old old Auburn. But yeah, I mean obviously.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:33

So so to kind of focus on Auburn more, we we have Auburnale House, which is you know the pioneer craft beer location in old Auburn, and then you had NeDeep, who is the one that kind of put Auburn on the map, uh two two phenomenal partners with Brewing. One you know, when when their relationship you know soured or reached an impasse, one of the owners opened up Revision Brewing, which should have been a WestAck. Uh Wessack dropped the ball on that one. Open in Sparks, Nevada. And Revision Brewing still going strong, recently expanded into the Bay Area for distribution. Um, so you have this this brewing pedigree that is Need Deep Brewing, who has been around 20 plus years. I mean early 2000s. This is you know, a little bit ahead of the curve, or curve rather, and uh yeah, but but a brewery that again kind of epitomized West Coast IPAs. Needleep is a very their their breaking bud is uh a phenomenal, phenomenal IPA. Uh multiple time award-winning IPA uh for West Coast style.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

And they you have Moonraker coming in with the Yojo nailing nailing off with the the the haze craze.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:58

Yeah, and I that was a great move by Moonraker because you set up literally if you go to Auburn, you can walk from knee deep to Moonraker. They're basically across the street. So you went from Prime West Coast to Yojo, which kicked off the whole haze craze in California, I would argue. I'm sure there's someone somewhere who says, no, we made a hazy IPA. No. Yojo was the the hazy IPA turning point for California.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Hype hazy the first.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:26

Yeah. The yeah. And so you you have these two powerhouses in all aspects of IPA, and also some other phenomenal stylings. Uh I had a like black licorice style beer moonraker once that was phenomenal. This this weird sour. Jackson just got assaulted by uh Beatle, his his his beautiful tuxedo cat with a half mustache that I found in a car in the house. It's that time of night, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

It's it's it it's it's it's time for his uh his snack.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

But so in short, Auburn, you know, they they started with Auburnel House, which is a brewery pub, kind of a classic styling, and then you had Nee Deep come along, then Moonraker, and then Crooked Lane, who does a lot of great beers, including a lot of kind of Germanic styles, uh Doom's That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

I don't know if you meant to do it or stumbled across, but Auburnel House and Knee Deep showed it could be done. They they showed up a long time ago, they established themselves, they showed that there is a market for craft beer, especially not just craft beer, but in general, but like in that area. So Moonraker down the street, went in crooked lane close enough by that there was that it can be done, we can do it. There's the blueprint you know put out for us. And then in Folsom, I mean, uh Boring Rose is newer-ish, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:06

It's it's there within the last six years, I'd say. Yeah, because I went there since my daughter was born.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:14

And then Redbus isn't quite your picturesque vision of the successful brewery that's just making moves and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

They're very grassroots, not not intent on expansion, very like, hey, we we're we're here because we care about craft beer, which I appreciate.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

So I think that could that could be the answer. I think that maybe you know, that's one of the parts of why you're not seeing so many in full. Maybe even if there was the demand for it and the the market for it, they just there just weren't breweries in that county that were doing it or that soon. You know, like and Auburn was just like, hey, you know, we're we we have these two breweries that are established now. We're we're ready for more. And then Because even then when you when you go back up the freeway towards towards Sacramento, you get to Rockland, like we're like we were saying, got you got Moxa, um you've got um Mindscape Fermentations, you've got uh the the brewery.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:16

Originally out of uh out of bounds, and uh their old location is now Shred Brewing, which stemmed from uh a brewer from Lincoln from Slice. It's a whole long complicated history, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:28

And then you got that other brew th that other brewery w we had a beer at at the uh the the beer fest in um are you moving Loomis's wildcard?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:37

Yeah, Loomis, yeah. I mean, but still like that. Loomis Basin Brewing was a cool location. I had been there in college.

unknown 1:08:44

Fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:45

When you go up the other free, when you go up the when you go down the 50 towards Sacramento, I mean you'll you'll eventually get into the Bureau District.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

But Placerville. Placerville's a fun one to talk about. But maybe not so much now. That's the thing. We could talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

Not as successful. Yeah. So I it's something about the 80. It's the 80, and it's once there's been proven abilities to have success, maybe that breeds business.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

So and I'm gonna pause another another thought is that Folsom, uh as affluent as it is, has a higher barrier to entry for a grassroots or for a younger operation. You you talk about and this is just kind of like a sometimes the you know the argument is less why from a you know taste standpoint as it is just an economic standpoint. When you look at the foothills, usually that's a little bit more business friendly, it's a little bit more blue-collar, so to speak, but when you look at Folsom, you kind of see a a commuter class people who come in to buy larger houses that they might not stay in most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

I can see that. I mean, there are there's definitely communities up near Auburn that share that, but I guess Folsom does meet that deal a little bit more in the notes. Folsom's expensive.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:17

I mean, I I'm not gonna look up the median home price in Folsom versus Auburn, but I can tell you right now, I can afford a home in Auburn more than I can afford a home in Folsom. Uh that's if I sold my home in Sacramento. But uh regardless, I I think the barrier to entry from a business standpoint is greater in Folsom, which is why you see uh a more established knee deep come in. You see a more established, at least at the time they opened out-of-bounds brewing, come in, uh, even though they dropped their original brewing location, which is now Shred Brewing, Shad to Shred for again being opportunistic and taking up a position for a brewery who may have overextended themselves. The course uh as we've seen movement do to Old Republic, which had done it to American River in the Barrel District. Which is still uh uh near and dear to my heart location because it was a Yeah, like we talked about recently, I mean movement really good stuff there. They they do good stuff, and and again, I think some of these, you know, kind of auxiliary towns that are outside the city center and a little bit more small business and developer friendly do produce these brewing businesses that are really good. And uh it not not to not to sound too too far away here. Uh it's it's nice to be small nice to be friendly to small business. If you if you limit the upfront cost to a small business, it's it's more likely to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:02

It's that first uh three months that makes or break restaurants, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:06

And even the first two years breaks breweries like because no one's making profit on a business.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

It could take like five years.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

Yeah. At ease. How long did it take at ease to get profitable in midtown?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:21

Also, I mean, I think I think it was like six years, but also they opened up during COVID. Like not during they opened up like six months.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:33

That I think that speaks to the community they're able to establish. And that's another important factor. Shout out, Mike, because he has put a great community location together. And I think that's another thing that we're gonna see craft beer kind of revert to now that it's not as hey, I'm buying this beer from across the country. It's more who's showing up on Saturday, right? Who who's showing up on lunchtime on a Wednesday? It's it's your margins as a brewery are no longer coming from distribution, they're not coming from these big deals from putting your beer out everywhere. It's community first, and I think that Auburn is a community that is willing to go out and drink a beer. Whereas in Folsom, maybe they're driving to Tahoe or they're driving to the Bay Area.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

You know, the got their fancy turtlenecks on, just just being just being fancy fancies, not wanting that that bitter burn, not wanting that that capsaicin of the night that speaks to how beer is a poor man's drink, because sometimes you just need a beer to deal with the bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:53

They're over there driving their Teslas to the winery.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:56

Yeah, they're causing the bullshit. Yeah, yeah, Folsom is more of like uh not to dive too deep, because I think we've got to be a little bit more than a lot of Shenandoah. They're a lot they're a lot more wine country than than Auburn is. So maybe that has something to do with it too.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

Yeah, but but shout out for Auburn for capitalizing on the people who do want to drink beer by opening Neep's Tap Room in Auburn, as well as the out-of-bounds brewing tap room and kitchen, which is a cool location. Uh there's still there's still niches to be found. And again, part of the experience is where do you fit in? And I think that uh the Boring Rose has done a very good job. I look forward to the next time in Folsom going out to the Borg Rose. We should plan it outing because I I feel like even though they're kind of in the strip mall, they maintain this this identity and this purpose that just produces very nice beer and a place you want to go sit at a bar at, or even sit on a patio at the end.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:57

What more could be asked than that? Like that's what we want. We just want to be able to sit down, enjoy it, not be too over encumbered by whatever the world might throw, but just have a comfortable place to sit, relax, drink beer.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:12

100% chill.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:13

And yeah, uh for whatever reason, Auburn has done it. We've we've given you our ideas. What do you think? Why is Auburn the best place for beer compared to Folsom? Why has it done its share to be that in comparison, Mecca? Um I'm also curious if you live in a different part of the country, different part of the world, do you have your own Auburn versus Folsom? Do you have these two communities that seem on the surface to be similar, but one just dominates in your area? What's that all about? Well let us know. Because I don't know. Are are we weird? I mean, I know we're weird, but are we different? Anyway, uh also, why the fuck is a Georgia brewery, a Georgia brewery, putting its logo on a League 2 team in in England? Get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:05

Alright. Or maybe you just support your local club, which we support you supporting your local. Oh yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:27

That's true. If if that is your local club, then yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:30

But if you're like living in the case, or if you live in Georgia, if you live in Georgia, why did the brewery like support uh league two soccer clubs? I'm I'm so confused, and this is something we want to research the next episode of Beer Me Cast.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:44

But that has been this has been an episode of the ReCast. You could listen to any other podcast, you listen to our podcast. Thank you for listening. You can reach us at beermecast at gmail.com or at beer mecast on Instagram and tell us all the stuff you want to tell us because uh we're we're here for it. Um but before I let you go, I just want to ask you one thing. I want you to do one thing, one homework item, and that is to just go out and try that beer. All right, cheers. Cheers.