Episode 1: Not One More Sister: The Frontline Fight for Our Right to Exist.

In this deeply resonant conversation, we are joined by a dedicated social worker and feminist, Busols Rafiat Ojo-Oba, to unpack the complexities of gender-based violence (GBV) and the systemic barriers to women's safety.

We move beyond the statistics to discuss the lived realities of survivors and the critical role that feminist frameworks play in providing not just a voice, but a roadmap for institutional change. From challenging deep-seated cultural norms to navigating the legal and social hurdles of advocacy, this episode explores why embracing feminism is a non-negotiable step toward a more equitable Nigeria and what we all can do to help.

This Episode was recorded in November 2025

Edited by Eniola Busari.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to her story, where we share the her story of Nigerian women and challenge the status quo. My name is Anna Onoboyu. Grab your favorite ring, settle in, and let's start the conversation. We are back on her story, and with me, I have the beautiful, the talented, the ambitious, hardworking. Busola Rafiat Ojoba. And she's from Boyo State, a social worker and a gender-based prevention specialist. Now, let me give you the floor to properly introduce yourself to her story.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Hi everyone, with some globally, because we're doing global anywhere. My name is Bussola Rafiat Ujoba. I'm a social worker with expertise in sexual gender-based balance. I one fun fact about me, I like eating cold food, very cold food from the fridge, or like dognos cold code. And um, I'm a very good dancer, but that's aside. Um for the past, in the past three, four years, I worked across African countries teaching young women and girls, empowerment, self-defense, consent, boundaries, everything, gender quality, local meeting, everything, um, gender stereotypes and self-defense skills in Nigeria, Tanzania, Zambia, Uganda, South Africa. Yeah. And currently I'm supporting the entire organization. And at the moment, I am also a gallery assistant. So just so you know, I remain at and um I am do it all. And I'm about to start my own content creation talking about those things that I know, like gender-based violence, child B, Charlie, city girl, and amphoculal practice. And what else do I do? Okay, I think we're gonna dive more into when we go.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Okay. But you mentioned your um work with mental health advocacy and gender-based issues. What inspired you to go into social work in this sense? Okay, so backstory.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

You know the same thing that you see that you have this thing, it's just in there. Like when I just want to be a doctor and like something is a nice thing. I've always called out many things I found not making sense in my family, amongst my friends, even society. Maybe there was no word for it. Nobody didn't know what feminism was. I don't know what gender quality was, but I knew it didn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Right. And growing up in a polygamous family, you see things. Green up in the very low-income communities, you see things, you hear things, then you're like, oops, oops, oops uh, it doesn't make sense. Then I went on to study history and international studies, but I was more drawn to the international studies in part of it's non-necessary history. And I was like, uh, when I go up, I like to work in post-complex areas. It sounded interesting. So for every time I'm done with school, I take back a gap here to volunteer. So I have like extensive experience across different history sectors, you know. So, and also learning other skills. For example, I know how to big kids, I mean to baccal. Anyway, I mean I'm a new teak, you know, to make or kick in this extra skills and just you know, the brain is very big. You can learn as much. Yes. So when I was my the last after my NYC, I also volunteered. So I was like, I want to do my master's, I've acquired these skills, but I knew I wanted to work with non girls. But I didn't know how or what, in what capacity. What the I like the social work myself, never ever been in job, bro. So I started like digging every night. No, my small phone being, I would check social work. What can I do with it? What could I what can I? What should I like not? I'll do it. So I did my master's on social work at the University of the Battle. And um, again, violence personal to me, both personal and and uh on the family level, gender-based violence specific. So, um God so good I got a job at that time in a gender-based violence prevention organization. And so it's like God giving me what I wanted and thought of good. And that was how it just reaffirmed my interest and my knowledge of my loan or my passion for working men and girls around children globally. Because I can say that was one of the best times of my life. Being that work just opened my eyes to the things, to the more things. I mean, about stories with balance for women and girls, it's not unique. It's universal. It is to be fair, it's not unique, it is universal. Or do very distinct, but the stories about how the culture, society, religion, men perpetuate and flow over towards women and girls. And since then, I've been on this journey of also learning more about feminism because every day you discover new and new and new things. Every day you discover how much more you don't even know, even with your world of experience, you discover how much more the world is blind or biased towards me. You discover how much long age traditions still affect me in in this age and time where we're gonna go into space and accomplish it, so many things are. I knew that by just a very tiny subset, but I believe in the power of numbers and the power of building communities. So even with this podcast or with this thing we're doing, it's something. Because some girl someday watches now or in the future and she will learn something from it. So no one should ever think that oh, what I'm doing is small. What you are doing is very big. In the world where I always want to be silent, nothing incredible. And that's what matters, even if it's one person, because I listen to that. I'm doing my I'm doing what I'm doing for the audience of one. Yeah, even if it's one person that listen to me on Instagram or YouTube or Twitter, uh, or will see my tweets or in the school, where I'm gonna just talk to these young people. I'm okay with that. Yeah, because I'm fighting other women that across the world are fighting, other young girls are doing their best, fighting the picture, and it's very hard. But again, building numbers and having communities will save women, and I've always saved them. Community, community from Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

I'm going to hold you for a bit and we're gonna like go back to your social work. So I wanted to ask, having like your wealth of experience in space over like across different countries, what can you say is one thing that you always kind of face in this work? And what are the ways that you think like society needs to double down and push social work like to the front lights, help your work in terms of like gender-based violence, educating people about the harm that is caused, and also like we have dedicated people, which I'm sure is some of the work that you do.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

The first question is people don't even know what gender pin spell reference is. And when I say they don't know, I'm not saying that they don't know how and full it. Even women do not look at what they're experiencing what they're going through is even more violent to appear. And if you don't know something, how do you stop it? You don't know this is a problem, how do you interest it? You don't know that this is a problem, how do you find the whole cause of it? And um, because you I live in a country that's very violent. You think that everything can be sold with crosswords, fighting, throwing face and those things. You don't see how to ask ourselves where we can do better with these things. So, for example, having worked across some countries in Africa and doing other amazing things, one thing I've come to realize again in this world is there's so much work to be done. Oh my god, across boards, there's so much work to be done. And I said not to be radical about it because life's on the line. There's so much work to be done. Like I said earlier, violence towards men and girls is universal, it's not unique. What I will tell you what I'm what I'm about to express now is what someone has to express themselves like yeah, you say yeah, Iraq, although there are levels, but the underlying pattern is the patriarchy, and again, education and finance is a tool, but it will not solve the problem in its entirety. Because if you don't solve it, the men who are educated were which have also been abused. So we need those tools to fight this education. It's very powerful tool and finance. And like I say, we need to we need the men to be economically, financially stable so we can disrupt the patriarchy, and also so we can redistribute money to the ants of women. So we can fight the bias in media, we can fight the bias in government, we can fight the stereotypes in AI and robotics, we can fight the bias in culture, in religion, in tradition, across sustaining that I'm women. We need that soft and soft change radical, insane crucial move. But how do we fight it if girls in Iraq are not going to school? How do we fight it in girls in Somalia being given out in marriage and hurries? So there's so much work to be done across what and I know it's easier to say, but sometimes I no matter how much we try to fight the picnic women, they don't do as much harm as many who are the original perpetrators are done. And because this women don't learn better, imagine I'm a 31-year-old, I'm a 31-year-old adult, and just say all my life I've been conditioned, trained towards what's overwards to believe that marriage means is the beginning and the end of my life. What if I aspire to aspire to be those things that I've been taught I'm nothing without? So I know that we want to parent them, but also need them to recognise some people in the beginning, and now their face carry card of this coving that we call us on Twitter, right? There's room for change. I know that it can be it can be very crucial, it can be violent, but trust you cannot be as insane as me. You are the ones perpetrating this violence. Okay. Again, leave the experience who always, always trump you said women with the experiences. Forever Trump, whatever it is, anyone is saying that's out. If we start talking to other old men to your body, our experiences are similar. And you think that you're experiencing insane cultural shock or traditions or amputations, go to another country, be like, ah.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

You just keep ah I never see anything.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

You never see anything. Because how I'm full and the world is moving like it's normal. Who are the biggest casualties of war? Women is one of us to experience how brutal war is. When that woman says the weather die or be burnt alive than be raped, because the body stays with you. No ways forever staying with you. If someone rolls my house so that I can move my house, I can buy no phone. I can't buy nobody. I can't buy new memory. I carry the same body that's a trauma with me all my life. So again, our experiences, although personal, it's universal. It's sad, it is painful, it is shameful. Sometimes I get so of a business. I'm like, I don't know, I've been able to, you know, this is my job. I've been able to be young on that part of me that I do my drum, I go on with the pain, the stories, I go back the next day. For me, this is this is something I'll do for a lifetime. Like I made up my mind. I enjoy it. I uh I have seen women try, I've seen men do things. My economic empowerment, to be in to live in admission, to go back to school for education. Like, it's what I want to do. I want to help women build their lives. I want to support women. I want to work with them. I want to own more and be the community of women. I want to educate people, I want to teach. I want to do ground book research and interventions to better the lives of women and girls globally. I'm returning in minority, but the work has been done. And it's personal to me on so unload. So we direct a basic place in a jail.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah. So to to like further like what you want to do, like to make a practical change. What are those like unique ways that us like as normal people of like we don't have anything, we're not in any organization. Let's say we don't even know any survivors of it till you can help. What are the ways you think that people can do their own little like efforts to like these words that three people in this space are doing like you? Because sometimes people fall into this like idea where they're like, oh, it's not even in my vicinity. How am I going to do it? Like, what's my business, basically? And I feel like those who are in the nitty-gritty, the trenches, like social workers like you, obviously, we all have the practical like tools, you're actually doing it. But what would you say to an average person, average Jane that is like, well, I'm just like in my house, I can't do anything. What would you say like they could do?

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Uh-huh. For me, I was still volunteer. That's it. That was what brought me to this space, even though I knew what I'm going to do. But give me a bigger opportunity bigger than myself. So I'll say volunteer. And that's because this course is bigger than all of us. That's it. This course is bigger than all of us. So start with a volunteer. Even the music mentality recognization, medium music, whatever capacity, volunteer. Even the small thing, again, what you are doing. This is also an amazing platform. You can tell who watched this video or we're doing now and would take it even. You can tell if they'll use your voice in the next nearest future to discuss something that we mentioned subconsciously or consciously. So you're doing a meeting, start it. Volunteer. Education. See, I need women to start educating themselves about these things. Changing code across schools. If you are if you're a parent watching this, you're an auntie, you're an uncle, you're a sister, your cousin, your father, when go to your children's schools, your curriculum needs to be updated. You can quote anti-anti-violence and social clubs, even in university, even in PTA meetings. These are convoys we should be having. I start parenting school for there's much more bullying. Yeah. So add those platforms, parent teachers for something. Some of us will donate money and go. Good morning fringe. But you don't left on the line. Look at this opportunities to start having this conversation with them. I will train those teachers. So, for example, I have a very small initiative called Teachers Against Abuse. Okay. And what I do is um I train teachers or equip them for record better word, equip them on how to recognize the signs of abuse, or the kind of abuse that can happen to students and how to deal with it, how to handle disclosures, how to report, how to ask, how to better secure the child. It happened right under our noses. Right? So there are different arrangements. Even in your communities, your LCDs, your your you and your girls having a good time. Talk, engage, show the handful conversations. Donate your money, even if it's 1,000, even if it's 500. All the most ideas we can even the most in the world take up and take up the ocean can never finish. Cry because it's endless. 500. Every hundred, even two hundred, every match, every protest. Just do your bit. I mean I tell you at worst. Because these stories are very they are traumatizing. So I understand. Take a book, you go again. You will tweet, even to educate yourself. Sometimes we are we are some somewhat competent in these things. Educate yourself. Embrace that book. A lot of feminist books. You can go online. What is gender-based violence? Because it's too extensive. What is your partner violence? Please child abuse, child neglect. Young association, your talk, have those conversations, be that work, just show policies, dig a person. Nobody is a face of feminism. Nobody's a face of gender politics. Because women before us did it for us. That's an we can go to school, drive cars, own bank accounts, do what travel, do amazing things in our lives. So we have to do something for the women coming after, for the young girl. Because everyone's even is getting worse. But with the right of insults, yeah. And what we are saying globally because of politics, men's rights are being um underfunded, cut short and stuff. It's gonna get worse. It's going to really get worse. Because any young boy that's much as 10, 11 to raping, killing. So when they get to their 40s, 50s, what would they be doing? In time to act is now. There's no hiding place. Expose this node. Expose any enabler. Again, an abuser is an enabler. A community actually of enablers that say it's not that bad. Facts that says sorry. It is not the job of the clerics to address issues of abuse. They're not trained equipment to do that job. It's not. Even our police are not even trained enough. It's not matter. So keep using that voice, no matter how tiny it is. Use social media, use TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, write letters, sign petitions. Just keep doing. Keep doing. That's how you want to reopen or chaias case.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

I'm so happy. Like when I saw the news, I was I was so ecstatic. And it's crazy to think that time just passes on these things that we let C eyes down. You know, I that was my internet burst and when I first saw it. I was like, what do you mean that they didn't, like the case was thrown out? In my mind, I've thought they are in jail rotten somewhere. And I'm hearing reopening the case. Sometimes it's very heartbreaking, like realizing that we live in a society that just thrives on letting things die. Like they die natural deaths and we just move on and forget about all. I'm really just I'm praying, hoping that as we've like risen up and everybody shouting about it, it doesn't die again. Like we actually get justice for this girl. Because and there are millions of cases like that. I remember when we used to work for um Lagos State, um, what do they call them? The pro bono lawyers for Lagos State. And when you hear some stories, they are just and it's remaining in courts for like 10 years, and they're just still like criminal the matter. Things that are clear logic that this person deserves to go to jail, the court literally works in their favor. And I'm like, we need to do a whole law reform in Nigeria, first of all, because our justice system is shambles. It's for us. Okay, we went off topic a bit, but it's still part of what we're talking about because in girl marriage today is not child marriage, it is girl marriage. That is who I will stand by. Now, let's talk about the personal balance because you mentioned taking a break. Sometimes when, and I know our world is going crazy right now, everywhere it's on left press center. There's a fire story going in. How do you navigate like personal balance like separating your words from your question? Like, does that is that possible first of all? That's the first question answer.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

It's like no, it's a you know yeah, you can't work it on. So I come back into ride. I'm gonna keep reminding myself that I'm another solve the world's problem, but I'll do my best. So when I feel very overwhelmed, I kind of stay off social media because I can see I won't open anybody's WhatsApp or not, you know, but social media when you're scrolling through your saying you are hearing or you are saying those cases, you want to retreat, you want to comment. Yeah, you want to just so sometimes you just accept social media or don't try to avoid the timeline. I hope I thought it's to be that I don't really see so many even outside gender-based moments, very fine cases about quality, there, just my main time, and again, I'm doing, I've done, I can do. And when I sort of don't feel that way, I just would like to do better, I like to dance. So I just dance and spend time with my siblings and those who taught me uh like a degenerate. As far as I'm concerned, that's like one of the best ways to live. It's gives you sitting down, thinking about awkward, won't be the things that you want for yourself and your future. And you know what, it's possible. So again, you take breaks. You are not the opposite, you're the victim consciously or unconsciously, as a human, you're even the victim by default. Because before the end of this conversation, some you don't know who's going to say, Hey, yeah, is Ochaira today? It can be star tomorrow. If start tomorrow, it can be next tomorrow. You know, there's no exceptional reason. Not your beauty, not your education, not your money, not your connection. Because fathers are raping their children. When I walk when I ain't at the prison, I like I saw things and I was like, wow, just keep getting worse and worse and worse and worse. But that's work is important. Just keep doing it, just keep doing it, just keep doing it, just keep doing it. So again, today, find balance. Tomorrow you're angry. If you want to find balance, tomorrow works the field. Because like being a doctor, if you're not a public health, work in public health, working community, you're writing research, you're doing clinical, you'll do something, you should do something in that field, making making change. So that's what matters. Just keep doing your big matter or small and change the outcome, like they say, and don't die before death comes.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Like it.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Because how to die before death comes, just one day at a time. You can switch entirely to a new just trying to keep allocating. You know, because nobody can take the emotional um pain or labor that comes with this, not everyone can. Right? So you have to not let and go for therapy. That for me is it sick professional or sick professional mental services. It's gonna be up here. So they will become the opposite we we don't like.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

I love passy, you just said that because I had the question coming to that. So you know the current, like, I I don't even know the right word to use for this. How suddenly, like in Nigeria you know, we have those like group of people who are always like, oh, these Twitter feminists, these crazy feminists how feminism has been like turned to be something else, like to use it as a gotcha moment for people, like it's not important or it is an over exaggerated point of view that people have just latched on to and it's now like being sort of bastardized, basically, because I will never forget when someone I saw the like people like a didn't say it was like a definition of real feminist. And they said, like, if you're for Twitter, you're a feminist, you're not really feminist. And I said, Well, we just keep bringing up new things every day. You wake up, you see a new thing, or the people who are like making feminism of class, like you know, the classes feminists who are like, Oh, if you're broke, you cannot be a feminist. We just had that recent like conversation just yesterday. And I was just like, we have been going to this feminism that we are carrying gone. Like, why is everybody like play it a part? Basically rubbishing the whole, the core of it. How do we want to push back against that?

SPEAKER_00 22:32

So moment we'll experience different things from across the board. So, for example, you see the way people defend their religion or their tribe or their culture because it's important to them. That's where I'm going to defend my communication. Because my time of life and death. And nobody has ever come to say, because I'm abusing my tribe or my ways, I will change my ways. As as this country lives not bad, goes. They have a personal conviction to whatever it is the old on days. Like, love, your partner is a business ashamer. Let the world be saying they are bad. They are like a shining style in my life. So again, no one has monopolied for men. All of us are on the journey of learning and on learning, and we're also growing into it. And there's also space for no one to have conversation. And there's also the parts whereby I said respectfully. Class do meant my beer down for easy. Because some Congos are outside of their realms. Like they can't understand. But like I say, you have to understand something before you feel. That's where empathy comes in. You know. And that's like there always be some things that are both outside of reality. It does not mean that you cannot listen. We're discussing about community waiting to you have to actively listen. Talk about who have different realities, come from different backgrounds, coming from the worst cultures and just exposed, being exposed to a new, you know, like that well. You mean that I don't have to live for the male gaze. Well, you mean that I don't have to get married if I don't want to. Well, you mean that this is bad. You mean that it's new to them. And there's nobody that is a feather feminism. There's someone written a story about how Italy banned women from marrying a rapist. Wait.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

They needed to create a law for that.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Is that I just write on Twitter this last occur in Italy? The way what I saw on Twitter in Italy, it was a matter of a man gave you married a rapist. And making marry the rapist. They make you married. It's compulsory. There's a name for it. So one man that was, I think she was from a good family. She was from a good family, she was raped by, I think, a mafia or those which lords, and he went to marry her. He took it to court. I said no. Because of different different factors. The you must marry, the must not, and became in then the the judge pronounced that she's able to marry you, and there was back and forth before they had to repel that law. So again, because one person did something, one person fought and look at the way we are in the world today. There's no I can't say I'm because of the warrant. Who am I? Do you want to be home? What did it do they did something? Can't say you can't say it's been a piece of podcast. All of us going to keep, we need to show up in numbers and community and solidarity. Look at me, solidarity. A man in defending a man in South Core is not before. So I need the men to come together and form that they've told that women's friendship is a lie. It's fake, is a lie. No friendship is a mean lie. Like is a lie. So I need the men to come together and say, you know what? This course will be that yeah. Are there rooms when you are saying yes? Are there for discussions? Yes, do you do mean it to listen? Yes, because you cannot start without listening. Active words, listen. But again, like I say, one results know what can go home. Do my work, go home, sleep, wake up and continue the night. There's no carrying face of me. There's nobody that is case of doing that calling. There's nobody that's so. You can start a movement, start a hashtag. But again, it's so very complex. You are in my stress above all things. You have to know that you have to sort of move yourself from it and keep pushing. Else, that thing that happens to people when they become, oh, it's not because of me. No, this is a global problem. This is a pandemic that we have to solve. We have to fight actively. So I need men to come in numbers and fight. Even like fight from last and tomorrow, it does not always figure out patriarchy is still there. Yes, you can fight. But the core of all of this, we knew that you have to what stabilize, defeat, or prove, truth, shake, or whatsoever. You patriarchy. I mean, people are watching. Young personal girls are watching. The language you use yourself, we have to be intentional about the language we use. You have to be intentional about communities we're building. We want to make something time to be a blueprint for them to follow and do it even better than we did it. No one is a face or a carrier member, or this is not PC. This is not PDP. This is not a democratic government. This is nothing or those parties around the world, the public are no. This is a this is more than like itself. This is a cost that we must fight. You are black, you are white, you are pink, you're yellow. And again, when I cry my because it's cost of my community, it's different when white woman is not communism.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

When an educated woman is talking, it's different from someone that is not educated because the factors, intersectionality, comes to play. So that something morality does not mean that it's not a man's reality. But should we not deny her the job of expressing something because nervous? No. Yeah. You can take time to educate her and you know keep because for me it's like when go to any culture and expressing like like wow, so my phone can't be ready, I don't have to worry about the camera. Yeah, that's it. This feminism is good. Like, wow. So I don't have to mean poor culture, so it's bad. So I can think that down to the chin of me. I don't want to, I can say no. I I can defend myself, right? It's cool. It's really cool, it's really cool. It's for me. Feminism today, yesterday, and tomorrow. All of you can burn to the ground.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Are you ready? Okay, we're going to go into a rounding segment, and I call this rapid fire. So I just want yes or no. You have like a space of maybe a sentence to defend why you said yes or no. Okay, are you ready? Okay. One. Can men be feminist? Ah, if let me say no. Yes or no? No. If I don't answer, no, okay. Defend. Go.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

So, to be fair, let me say like this: women and girls are victims of the patriarchy. Is it men by default by being born in many kings? Yeah. When it comes to gender rules, avoid the society and we didn't know as place to your both women. And we are like the same, like we know, good men benefit from the actions of what? Bad men. Because I've seen enough times that men want you to clap for them for being familiarist, we want you to clap for them for being allies, we want to clap for them for forgiving a chance to speak. Like it's not because we have a systemic oppression in the first place. We will not be fighting to t and you to be adult person. And at the end of the day, your your being or socialization, both cultural, religious, political, your role is up here. That ah, you are sinners, even the worst men is seen as being better than 20 best women. Do not incentives. That's why that musician said a drunk man is better than a man that's a PhD. And that's why you need that's why you can see just know that they are saying that a laundry man can toss too because what you can't remember to even the men did not sing, even men the women they can't watch again. In advance. In this moment pass not to me. Because our old existence even before we were being born has been dictated or shaped by the patriarchy. When the men are being kill girls are being killed from ethio before they were born because of their gender. And this is something that men never experience. Men never experience during marriage. Men never men never be afraid to call at night by default. But for us, I really do my fear. The woman second sleep upon the bus or on the plane, or do you wish she marriages with the stranger? Even the men that we know commit these grief sins against our bodies. So I don't think they can feminist.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Okay, second one. Can you be religious and a feminist?

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Ah come so come sir. This one is the queen of all questions because this is a lot. To be fair, I won't say yes, I won't say no. On this one, I'm sorry because it I didn't say my own. Every religion in the world, every Brahma conjunction in the world, even non-brahic religion, whatever religion it is, the way it is, it is designed. Designed that men are here, men are here. I mean I protect us, they are this guy that. And what religion have you read is a text or the books diagnosing some very funny, uncomfortable, misogynistic, misogynistic that has not supported the hierarchy or remain being told that their place is not here. And I also hold the space for men who believe who are religious because they think it's personal. And in a world where you have to defend and fight against the patriarchy, you want to hold on to something. So people were born into and from families, so you can't it's like finding yourself again and remaining to yourself with life over and over again. You keep evolving, and social space for them, yes, because it's personal, like I said, and people experience people have experienced God in different ways, and some people don't want to leave the community beat about the news. There's an ad in your streets, you might be feminine, still in your class, your family, but you need for family, you need for friendship, but your friends are not they're not giving you what you want to do, and because it's not this black and white, it's just that uh denounce, denounce, denounce. Again, men are fighting so many words across the board, across front, in your family, first daughter, even girls are fighting more amongst a class, classmates, amongst a friendship group, even in religious settings and dress spaces. But again, we also need those who help us to penetrate that's the closest thing. Like it's saying tech. Imagine a feminist women in church, and they can they can say, okay, let's go out circumstances, let's go out common sense, let's go out, let's form a coalition. How do our women access um and um GBV resources? How do we support this women when they are feeling abusive marriages? You know, you need them to be from the inside out, we need to do the numbers. Some people don't I can tell feminists, but they're feminist values, right? So the reason I said that because they're retired feminists, you denounce them. Okay, women's experiences are not giving across the board. Very similar. And I want to say that it is very personal for them. Yeah, but that's when they find comfort, that they find solace, that they they find that's what brings enjoy. Yeah, is it add? Yes, because it's not is is you should not some men doesn't gender equality say men and men are the same. Religion A, religion C and blue together after God, if the man, then you marry two years. And some regional go, your major even has more up and here. So do you reconcile trying to your son is a protector? When it's kind of emotional, you can never do juxtape. How do you reconsider that part? But you should hold on to something. Honestly, I don't blame them to be fair. And it's okay. Not even this Nigeria. They're fighting world across both. So illegal landlord that you're talking about or traffic or or price of goods and services or road vendors, or the government said that's not working. It's easier said than done to be fair. And it's a CO2 John Cano and Ekologia. If they're not said, not fully fair, don't go and fight. This man are even struggling to even have money to survive day-to-day Nigeria. He said they should simple find commuting churches in what's amongst their friends. So again, this this one on this one is not documents. I think that it can it's a family, don't go the same. But can we give women for thank you?

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Last one, as a prevention specialist, have you found that young Nigerian women are generally more open to feminist ideas than women of older generations? Yes or no?

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Come again.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

As a prevention specialist, have you found out that younger Nigerian women are more open to feminist ideas than older Nigerian women? Oh yes. Okay. And how the actually depends.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Yes. I think I don't think so. So again, I engage women. Like I said, um, I've been a bigger, I read other women talk. I've worked in a new tech shop, I've had other women's talk. It's not black and white, it's very normal. But with what is gonna across both social media, with education, with feminism, the things that we're seeing right now, with exposure, I think we we can do more with young government. We can do a lot more because you want to convince an Gandhi and German mother directly your abusive husband and convince her. I don't know, I don't doubt.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Okay, this brings in another like topic completely. So, how do we now like how do we learn from in quotes the elders if they are not willing to like renew their perspectives and like become aligned with newer teachings or like ideals?

SPEAKER_00 35:06

To be fair, you have to leave some people behind. These are the LGD goals that lose no one behind. On this particular matter, we must do something because they're not really with the mobile. No sense to them. We cannot wait for them to get everywhere. But when we can look at those that are coming and say you can jump politics, you can represent them, you can fight, you can disrupt, you can go to school, you can participate in aquaculture. When we can do that, again, not all Nigeria women or anti elderly ones are very anti-feminist. You'll be surprised that a lot of them they have those ideas, just past pressure, past any ideas, those values, those beliefs. But because they are scale, just one in the family that will say they're like, ah, we go in you. When you sit down with them and talk to them, they also have regret they have things they have done better, that you could they could have, they should have. You know, and you're gonna be surprised that so I'm the one on their parents. We should have some idea. It doesn't really time. Soever wants to renew their minds, yeah, we'll get to renew. So I wants to, yeah, I don't think for the community now. But I think with what I'm saying with younger women, younger girls, I think we have a good chance, just tend to penetrate across board. Universities to schools, to you know, even our policies, more young men in government, young feminist women in government, many believe in the course. You know that you now go there and say, again, when you have one man in the midst of hundreds, the drama voice. So we need more money across board. It's hard. I saw that that is even the other job. It's very hard. I can pick a button and keep on, but the other job is for me to just cast and pick it. I say just start, just start. Once we start, everything falls in place, but it's hard because when you grow, when you maybe probably have you marry, you have kids, and your life takes shape, you know, struggle into feed, health, health crisis, the life itself will just come at you. You know, but like you went to buy first. When you're sovereign, they'll pick up other things. So it's just uh this is a thought everybody I believe I really shape all on, to be fair. I genuinely pay for, I mean one myself I understand that it's hard. I'm not gonna worry. It's really hard.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Okay, this is a thought that just came up for what you said. So in some situations that we've had a bit of conversations about this cards, when women marry, they can package their feminism in order to like conform into like the new sort of role they're entering. What do you have to say to that? And is it possible to still maintain like your feminist beliefs who are also like deciding to, in this case, partner with a man for the rest of your life? I'm not married.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Do you have marriage department? Oh yes, but I'm fair. One of the biggest enablers of patriarchy is what? Marriage.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

So are you saying that people should not get married? That's not what I said.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that marriage is very much cultural and religious. And we say actively the religion, the two Muslim religions, it says that a man is the head of the earth. Culturally, it says the same. So let's assume that your partner is a progressive man. In means of all this, a progressive man is only a man. A progressive man can tell to go for a man and say that I want to go out, I don't believe in your progression. Yeah, progressiveness. I want to go back to life 94. Yeah, I was born. I'm gonna go back to life and four. I want to go back to 1981. At that point, when gun meets maybe your mother, for example, which I've seen with many times. You never know that you marrow you can live. She thinks that go talk about Solomon, say, ah, Lamashi, but let's pray about it because normal African mother advers. You can't meet your best friend or you want your auntie that you look, say, ah, oh girl, eh? Doctor can come as she buy me the more again. Your values, it's as much as my values are very, you know. And I end up with a man who suddenly just wakes up and just believe that oh, it can't cook again because it's been the thing. It can't do choice. And globally, women check up, women do half all, if not more, if not all also choice. Even in the most equal household, it means it may still do more. We take on the mental load and the child care part of the family because it makes the thing that it's been one. But I rejoice that you didn't tell me to help you. I'm sure they already help me. But if you need house together, you are saying that we use blue band madre or blue band butter, whatever, and you use iPod without the register type for you for good and fight. So again, you have a constantly revisit your values every time and no longer aligned with that of your partner. You see your intention to come down. I mean, again, mind maybe you should sit there and say, What am I doing here? And if you want to leave, it gets peace for you because again, there are no spots on that for you to live, which is even sad. And the backlash is lonely. Divorces are called reject, and only you'll be down to your be across board your church, your multiple friends, you know. So, can a woman have a marriage, like you said, and still you have to you have to intention about it. They're a partner. So you have to constantly, constantly, constantly, and you need the wood check in it and it's hard, yeah. It's kind of what we consume it in our media, or to the language they use to address other things, or to women's right being taken away by government globally, and those things. Men will resolve that this right is important to me. If you're fighting for if you're doing what you're supposed to do, and you want to look at most years, and your partner can't defend you, because ah, you want to come four times to you, so four times you're you're gonna go to be a baby. When mommy now goes, you go say you must say you are either they are either in or out. And for men, for men who say they would wear an appearance. So the hardest job is work of self. So constantly obviously what makes you an individual. The values you don't believe system, your core, who you are as a person. Because you have friends that like, you know, so buy your gunner. Ah, women play for one year. So that's a constant thing to surround yourself with men who also believe in the same thing as you do and have conversations, you know, missing, missing, check yourself everything. Raise children who got the children will see by dreams. Every idea, you know, you man be generally caught in. But when you wash plates or swept down, you never go to the market, or the environment will go to sleep. They never give you a baby bottle. You tell me that we're by 2 a.m. to feed your baby or taking your taking your child to school or do child drums. Your child is saying what you are doing. Like, ah, what other type of time for things? It's not, it's not, it's not you all your gym. Other men around you, your friends will mirror it. Whatever you want to be a leader or to be a class captain, whatever in your in your office, in your family, whatever. They are mirroring that behavior too. So for men, it's not child's war. The progressive man is still a still man. Because the train, condition, indoctrinated criminal stand into that message, into that picture, into that as a man, you're better off. Even a four-year-old boy will be a couple more responsible than you against one year old man. Because after sure, he's a boy, nails entitlement to make time, labor, bodies, intellectual, and what sort of it. So again, the book of sale, and you read this work. And so I don't mind marrying and even by door. I don't believe in church feminism. I don't believe in it. So again, something was given. Do you want to stand your reserve and say, I'm not going to shake this and my core values? It's all that believing. These are this is these are things that I die by. Or everybody at the end of the day knows what is in the art, what they want to do. But again, it is hard, but it's doable. But it's marriage, your marriage is designed by culture and religion.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Okay, before we go, I had one other rapid question that I was kind of like, I just left it back because it would have been too problematic. But I'm going to go ahead and say it. Okay, are you ready? Do you think there's redemption for abusive men? No explanation needed. Let's keep moving.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

I'm not going to explain because some things I can't I personally can't pass something. It's like saying you're not to rap, you want to give redemption to someone that committed murder, someone that committed um a terrorist. Uh and I'm global. Action have consequences. You abuse someone in several time in jail. Do you crime? And because again, even though you eat someone today, I'm playing inside to forgive you, like personal and say to forgive this person for what it did. You don't take a pain. But you thought that what you can do talking to someone, like example mumbo, was eat someone, or to do what's several. Abuse abuse is very complex. And the ammo to do to me, no duty.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

So now, what would you say now? Why are you an abuser? What would you say is religious people who are like, Oh, you know, God can change touch him.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

You know, it's not only wood. It's not a jump that they say. Yeah, yeah, the good idea. Yeah, but in the same world, I push next. But by the same world, and we also have to you have to pick your voice and stand by it. I have I can't forgive dead beauty. I feel I'm concerned. Dead bitism is also for more goddess towards the person that has the belief for you and the children or the child you have. Intentionally, hurting your child by being absent, I can't I can't be past it. No, I don't mean this there's no world where you want to redeem an abuser. There's no world where you want to realize. I'm sorry. I'm not even sorry. There's no world where abusers should have a place in our society. If you have a bigger terrorist out of society, motorized and robust, or many people, um I think what that crime do you have in the world that is very insane?

SPEAKER_01 44:48

It's only murder I can think of really.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Okay, whatever crime we can think of that is terrible. I don't think ambusers should have a place in society and should do time for it. Um you have to see abuse as a crime, not a wonderful ah, I'm sorry. No, you know that it's pure. It's a crime. You such it and be abusers which murderers literally commit as one, just commit treasure.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Yeah. And I want to address something you mentioned, like in pasting. You said this is not a holy wordful. Let's dive into that. A lot of our our arts, our kids in Nigeria are very, very, very for lack of a better word, insane. When you think about it, like from a feminist length. I was just which one was I watching? Because I'm a YouTube movie addict. And I said, God I beg. I hope nobody is watching this and thinking that this is real life, so this is supposed to it's how it's supposed to be. But again, that's just the me the naive. I know there are people who actually, in some parts of their brain, they believe that this is possible. Like, so what would you say to like people, creators of art, about the dangers of what your art can like imply?

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Sometimes I ask myself who she learns to think of this group. Again, it's been so normalized that you have the most increased into your movie. I think that because when you watch movies, when you go on Twitter, it's a very subscribed Nigerian, by the way. I look at you read their thoughts and be like, ah. For example, um, the lady who said a lunchman was asking out. And then came with a coin, saying that in the future, what it becomes a billionaire, a millionaire, that even if it was a CEO at work, it'd be she will you will think peace even education. Jesus came on that trend and become a new sense. Not it would you write or the right brain. As long as you see a man cleansing woman, in the end, you they'll tell you want to begin something, marry her a little every afternoon in what world is that accepted? In what world is that justifying? What should I even exist? That again, when you're writing on this, you need to be intentional to what you're writing, and it's watching. Because media, we cannot erase what media has played, but written or whatever kind of media you can think of in gender-based models. Yeah, words like oh bass. No, oh, fick in my implying conscience. No, because no means no letting a victim marry their reason, not a word, or ask for forgiveness, or making them segment or others because it loves you type shit. When you're writing scripts, sit down with actual, like writing a movie that will involve um medics and stuff. You sit down with actual doctors and ask up with a third person to work with me. Sit down who who have done it and know how it should be addressed. Not the one you're writing. I'm tired of those movies. I'm genuinely tired of those movies. And there's it's now some history. You together when they're watching, watching, watching, watching, watching. I want to watch what you consume, what you think of. Nothing I what was now? Oh god, so card. So call the dig this pizza, Jesus. Who dig this pits must further sit? Even those that you now expect to even know better. You see the empower to know, if you like. You know, the remote sake, we were an email.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Now to round this up, Gusola. So the title of this podcast is her story for a very specific reason because we are redefining history to include her stories, our lived experiences, our opinions. So in let me set my timer. In a minute, I want you to give me Vosola's her story, like what you would want to be in the footprint of your history.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

My history? Yeah. One minute. In your okay, what's are you ready? I'm ready. Go. Um, I would like to become a college professor, and I want to be a college professor with a difference. I want students to work into my class and live with hope, live with joy, live with you, and I want to redefine what education and learning looks like. I want to design interventions that lead me. I want to design interventions women and giving children globally to this course of fighting power. I want to work in post-company areas. I might end up being to medical school or not in school, or just doing something, you know, for women girls. But most importantly, I want to live a very interesting and amazing life. Doing this work, cracking this course, within community, dishopping the patriarchy, fighting. I'm living to see another day. And most importantly, just leave in joy for me. This work is tough, it is hard, it is challenging. I want to experience joy. I want to travel. I want to see women travel. I want to see men empowered. I want to see men become better versions of themselves. I want to see men leave a bit of knowledge and leave again. I want to see young girls go to school. I want to see women make money. I want to see men doing across board and politics to, you know, everything I think of. I want to women first, women, second, men to women across board. So for me is women today, men tomorrow, makeover. And um, yeah, just living amazingly beautifully and just end every day disrupting the picture.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Thank you so much for your time, Bisova. I really, really they have come to the end of our session around this. That's all the time we have for this episode of Her Story. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite platforms. It truly helps other people find the show. You can find us on IG at her storypodcast ng and X at Her Story Pod Ng. Join me next time as we tell her story.