Personal Branding with Nathan Chan - EP3

🔥 Quick Intro

What really happens when a founder stops hiding behind the company brand and commits to showing up every single day? In this episode, Foundr founder Nathan Chan breaks down his 90-day personal branding experiment, the mindset blocks that held him back for years, and why founder-led content is becoming non-negotiable for modern businesses.

👉 Episode in a Nutshell

Nathan Chan shares why he resisted building a personal brand for over a decade, despite running a highly successful media company. He reveals the exact moments that pushed him to finally commit, what changed after posting daily for 90 days, and how that decision unlocked new opportunities, authority, and revenue. The conversation covers storytelling, carousels vs video, using AI to scale ideas, the dark side of personal branding, and how founders can build visibility without burning out or derailing their core business.

⏰ Timestamps

00:00 - Why founders must build a personal brand in 2025
00:00 - The 90-day daily posting challenge explained
01:18 - Feeling unqualified and hiding behind the Foundr brand
01:36 - “If I had started 10 years earlier…” mindset shift
02:04 - What changed after the first 90 days of posting
05:39 - Shark Tank as the personal brand wake-up call
06:34 - The book that unlocked the blueprint (90 Day Personal Brand)
07:00 - The biggest blocker: not knowing what to post
08:28 - Making time for content as a busy founder
14:04 - Why storytelling carousels outperform video
12:23 - Turning personal content into seven-figure product sales
12:52 - Using AI and NotebookLM to extract winning stories
18:22 - Storytelling formats that drive inquiry and trust
23:12 - Vulnerability example: anaphylaxis story and massive reach
27:10 - The dopamine trap and dark side of personal branding
33:42 - Balancing a personal brand with a growing company
41:03 - Calendar systems and practical content workflows
45:07 - Where to find Nathan and what Foundr is launching next

💡 Key Takeaways

• Founder-led content builds trust and authority faster than company branding alone.
• Consistency matters more than production quality or perfection.
• Storytelling carousels can outperform video when time and resources are limited.
• Vulnerability creates connection, but vanity metrics can become dangerous.
• Personal brand and company brand should follow one clear, aligned strategy.
• Content works best when treated as a long-term commitment, not a short-term play.

🔗 Resources

• Foundr Membership - Access courses, interviews, and founder-led education - https://foundr.com/membership
• 90 Day Personal Brand by Dain Walker - Blueprint for launching a personal brand
• Mindvalley (Vishen) - Example of founder-led content at global scale
• Steven Bartlett - Personal brand combined with media and venture building
• Rory Vaden - Monetising personal brand with integrity

Transcript

If you're building a company, you have to put out content for your personal brand.

I just couldn't leave it any longer.

I made the commitment to myself that I'm gonna post one time a day for 90 days straight.

The number one thing I worked out was if I hadn't started doing this 10 years ago, dude, I'd probably be a billionaire at this stage, and there was this kind of internal conflict around not knowing what to post.

And doing it myself and it was very intimidating when it was me, that it was Nathan and Nathan Chan account.

With founder I always felt I could hide behind it.

When it's Nathan, it's just like, yeah, it's me, hello.

For other founders who's got their normal business going, and now you've got this personal brand going as well.

What's your advice for building both? I think it comes down to, Nathan Chan, back in 2019, you actually interviewed me and one of the things we talked about was personal branding.

And I noticed you've just recently run your own little experiment for 90 days where you posted a video every day for your personal brand.

How did that go? Oh dude, really good, it's been crazy, so, um, for a long time I've been the face of the company, I sort of founded about 12-13 years ago, but I never felt worthy, I never felt kind of, I guess I never felt like I had something to say, and I was really, I did.

I was just scared and nervous and just cared what other people think and it was OK if it was through Founder, but if it was just Nathan, I was like, you know, I'm not qualified to speak, which is kind of crazy in of itself, but.

This year, we're in 2025, I was like, you know what, this space is just like if you're building a company you have to, you have to put out content for your personal brand in my opinion and, and I just couldn't leave it any longer.

Like I think to myself if I had started doing this 10 years ago, dude I'd probably be a billionaire at this stage.

So uh like those 1st 90 days it was crazy man, it was absolutely crazy, um.

It was So many uh speaking opportunities come to me, so many, uh, you know, business opportunities come to through Founder, and uh I noticed a real shift in just a lot of different things throughout our business, uh, people know my stories more, they know the things I'm talking about through my personal brand content and I'm not even doing the best job at it, to be honest, like it's an OK job, so uh it was really cool to see.

Mm, I want to definitely touch on, on how you're saying you're not, you're not doing, you know, like how you might do it properly, but I definitely wanna touch on that in a second.

But first of all, you already touched on this a bit, but I wanna dig into it a little bit more because uh I think if I, if I remember right, you've always been kind of resistant to building a personal brand.

I remember even when you asked me that question in our interview back in 2019.

Uh, I think you were sort of, you know, juggling the idea of maybe doing and maybe not, but uh, I think you like the idea more of building actual brands.

Um, but why do you think you resisted it? You've touched a little bit on thinking you're not worthy and things like that, but were there other reasons too? Yeah, yeah, so when, when it comes to founder, I've always wanted it to be an asset-based business, um, building something bigger than myself, building a company that potentially one day could be sold, um, not that I wanna sell it anytime soon, but I'm always open to that idea and so I wanted to create something bigger than myself, something that, You know, if I got hit by a bus tomorrow, the company would still survive and thrive without me, so I've always been incredibly intentional in how I've built Founder, um, and so that was something I got quite obsessed with um for a long time, but then as the market shifted and turned and has evolved, what I've come to recognise and realise is, You can build still an asset based business, you can build a company where you are the face of it, where you are the leader of it, and you put out content and it's isolated from your company and business and more than ever it's what people are doing, right, like all these YouTubers, all of these podcasters, all of these people that create content for a living.

If they've got a big enough audience, a big enough community, they are launching products like Mr.

Beast with Feastables, Logan Paul with Prime, like the list goes on, but not even, You know, kind of your standard YouTubers, like you look at podcasters like Stephen Bartlett, like dude, I'll be honest with you man.

Stephen Bartlett, those guys got in touch with me like 5 years ago and like, like we never did anything together and like it was so stupid because like look at how massive they are compared down to Foer right and so um.

Yeah, my my mindset has definitely changed and shifted.

You look at Stephen Bartlett, how many companies he's behind, all the companies he's involved in all the companies he's he's starting as well.

Um, it's wild man.

Yeah.

So, so what was the, the final penny that dropped for you that made you jump into this, you know, 90-day challenge.

I'm assuming you're continuing with it, but, you know, I, I remember all of a sudden starting to see a bunch of your content coming through, especially on Facebook, and hey, what's happening? Nathan's doing something different.

But what was it that made you take that plunge? Yeah, so There's a couple of things.

One, About a year, now now maybe closer to 18 months ago, um, there was a new season of Shark Tank and, A couple of my peers or or people that I knew or friends with um were sharks.

And people were reaching out to me and they're like why aren't you on there and I'm like what the hell, why would I be on there and they're like wow it's crazy.

So um, the people that they chose, a lot of the sharks had really strong personal brands, um, and and and they'd been producing content for quite some time, that's here in Australia, so that was.

That was the first thing that was like a penny drop moment for me, but I, I wasn't in a position with founder to make it a focus, and I said to myself in 2025 I'm gonna go for it.

So, um, I went away with my now fiance to the Maldives.

And I wrote, I read this incredible book by a guy called Dain Walker called 90 Day Personal Brand, and he basically gives you the whole blueprint on everything you need to do to launch your personal brand and, and basically build a full-time career around it in 90 days and and get your first client, and it was fantastic.

I just followed that blueprint, so I read that book in literally like 2 days when I was in the Maldives and I was just sold.

It was incredible, so, um, pretty much, uh, yeah, those were the two penny drop moments for me.

I'd say the last one would be a biggest barrier that I always had is I didn't know what to post.

And like any business thing, you know, like sometimes you, you gotta make a party strategy but you need resources and I didn't want to spend the money and I just wanted to test it out, but then there was this kind of internal conflict around not knowing what to post and doing it myself and, Me being the my own like the guinea pig of it and so he really unblocked that from me, um, just really kind of working out what to post, how to post, how to do it, it's not that it's not that I haven't done it before, but it was, it was very different, it was very scary, it was very intimidating when it was me, um, that it was Nathan and Nathan Chan account, so I, you know, was founder I always felt I could hide behind it, but when it's Nathan, it's just like yeah it's me, hello, yeah.

That's, that's interesting cause that's actually my next question.

Like, you know, what, what your biggest struggles were for, you know, before you got into it, but then also after you got into it, because there's, there's a lot of mental work you gotta do um to get yourself to actually do it.

And then once you're in it, it's like, OK, now I've gotta do it every day, and I gotta keep going.

So you've mentioned the issue with uh in, in different brands.

I wanna, I wanna dig into that a bit more if there's time today, but also just coming up with ideas.

So, um, I think that's a perfect segue for the next thing I wanna talk about.

So, because You're a busy founder.

You know, you've, you've, you've found it, founder, and uh it's not like you're sitting on your hands all day and, and, you know, watching social media.

You're busy with an existing business already.

You just got engaged, uh, you've got a life, etc.

And now you've got this personal brand going as well.

If, if I'm a busy founder, and, and watching this now, if someone's listening or watching this, and they're thinking that exact same thought, they're thinking, I am busy.

I don't have time for this.

What's, where should they start? What, what would you recommend the first thing is that they do? Yeah, so you have to look like anything, there's, you have seasons and stages in your business and it's situational.

If you, if you don't have the time, then you need to make it a priority, otherwise you're not going to do it.

But for me, I found myself in a position where when it comes to, The marketing, product, delivery side, a lot of that, uh, I'm in a position where I have an incredible team that are really focused on those areas of the business.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still driving things, but I have owners in the company that are focused on fulfilment, product and delivery, um, in all forms that that I, I can make this a focus.

Um, however, I'm still pretty time poor.

I'm still running a podcast, I'm still the CEO of the company, uh, we still have many things going on.

Uh, that we're working on to drive founder Ford, so, um, I didn't hire somebody, and I, I will in the new year.

I said to myself I'm gonna give this a good hard crack, just kind of playing around and, uh, I made the commitment to myself that I'm gonna post one time a day for 90 days straight, and I would spend anywhere between half an hour to 1 hour, um, working on the content, working it out kind of every single day, so, So that was, you know, the time that I allocated and dedicated, but a lot of it was playing around.

Once you, once you get your momentum, it's actually not that hard, um, to, to create the content and you, if you, if you section out the time, like I like to section out on a Thursday, like 2 to 3 hours to plan my content for the week, and then you can just preload a lot of it, create it, preload it, you know, I'm always doing interviews, I'm always snipping, we're getting cuts, all sorts of things and, You know, get the team's help a little bit here and there, um, it does become easier, but, for those of you that don't have the time, first of all you have to make the time, secondly, you have to, it has to become a priority, it has to be something that you make a commitment, you go, you know what, I can see the power in this, you want more clients, you want more sales, you want more customers, it's a really, really powerful medium to put yourself out there, uh, to start to build your personal brand, to start to create content, so, The first thing that I did was I looked at who are the top 5, 1020 people that were thought leaders in my market and I studied and looked at the content that was outliers, like outlier content, what we call and found a unicorn, unicorn posts.

And then I drawed experience and I drawed kind of I guess, you know, the Austin Cleon approach, good artists copy, great artists steal, so I stole inspiration of the kind of content, so as an example you go to my Nathan Chan Instagram page, I only really focus on one channel then I replicate it across the others.

But if you go to the Nathan Chan Instagram, I focus on mainly carousels, storytelling carousels.

I do clips, they don't do as well, but storytelling carousels, they, they tend to be the thing that really drives things for me and I've grown, I'd say we've grown probably, I've probably doubled my following, so it was closer to like close to 20,000 by the end of this year we'll be closer to 40,000.

In terms of sales and numbers, you could say that we've generated.

I'd say at least uh yeah it would be over 7 figures in in in product sales, um, just me kind of playing around doing bits and pieces, so it's been a pretty powerful channel um in the past year and and we haven't really like fully gone all in.

I think when we do I think it can be a a really really really big channel for us over time, uh but it it takes time, you know, one thing that we added as well is kind of we we look at, How can you spin the content and get leverage for the content? So a good tip that I'm doing now is I'm, I'm constantly doing podcast interviews like this interview show that you're interviewing me on.

Once you publish that Gideon on YouTube, I will take that interview and put it into Notebook LM and I've got a list of interviews from Notebook LM, like, you know, 30+ of my top interviews that I really like that I've done where I've shared good stories in the past couple of years, and I put that into Notebook LM.

Then I asked Chat GBT or Claude what prompt I should write to extract the best stories to create the highest performing carousels, and I've shown it all the data that it's learnt from for the carousels that work and get the most views.

And then I ask it what prompt and then I prompt Notebook LM and it's got the repository of my last 30 interviews that I've fed it and then it gets the stories and then I take that answer, put it in a chat GBT or Claude and I start to build out the carousel and then you take it from there, right? So so that's how I kind of do it and you know that's one of the formats.

But then and I try and post one a day.

I like I try, like I don't always, but yeah I'm posting at least 5 times a day, 5 times a week.

So it sounds like it's not, not just video content, in fact, it's, it's more the carousels that you're seeing a lot more of your success with.

So, so what, so is it, give me a bit of a ratio here, uh, like in terms of, is it, um, you know, 80% carousels and then 20% video, or is it a bit 50/50? What, what's the mix there? Yeah, it's 80% carousels, and the reason that is, is because I find them really easy to create, um.

Myself and I'm not distracting my team, like you know like I might get a a video edit here or there from my team but yeah next year we'll we'll have a dedicated resource purely just clipping, uh, clipping content to just just pull from constantly, but uh as you know, um it's, it's, it's a, it's a job in of itself, right, you know, you had a company around this just doing clipping all the time, right, so.

Um, yeah, over time we will make it more of a priority in putting out, you know, two pieces of content, then eventually 3, but you've gotta start with a rhythm and a habit and focus on one channel and get really, really strong, and then you've gotta use that, you know, build, measure, learn.

So it's not just putting it out, I'm looking at what content is working, I'm feeding it to chat I'm feeding it to chat GPT to work out what is working.

Um, what is driving more engagement, what is driving more message replies, so the algorithms and the, the, the social tools, they're getting better, so they can tell you how many conversations you can drive from certain pieces of content, which is amazing, right? You can see you've got things like mini chat now where you can automate the sales process or some, some of it, right, so there's, there's all sorts of things that you can do to build relationship and to draw people in and, Tell certain stories and then use, you know, AI to work out what content is performing, what content is not, and then doubling down on that piece and then finding, trying to find new pieces of angles or content that work, but yeah, a lot of it's carousels because I find that's the easiest.

I, I've tried a few AI editing tools and it's just not.

It's just not as good as I, my, my level that I'd like.

OK, so, so let's, let's zoom in a little bit onto the carousel, it's not something I know much about, I'm not, I'm more the video guy, you know, and I wanna just ask questions about videos all the time, uh, but let's zoom in a bit onto the carousel.

So if I look at your Instagram channel here, um, I just had a quick look at one of your more recent posts here.

So, so this is a carousel, right? Um, so take us through this.

So you're saying you're creating this basically yourself because it's easy and nice and quick and it allows you to, uh, you know, get stuff out there.

And, and there's like, let's see, 123456, so 66 different sort of ideas in there with the background.

Uh, what do you use like Canva or something, or what, how do you make this process easy and quick for you? You can use Canva to make that really easily, um, and the contents just come from chat GPT.

Now that, that one's a new format.

That's a new format I'm testing, just, just so you know, that's a new format.

That's a format where it's not so much about Nathan, but that's, you know, that's a pinned post.

Where I'm telling my story, so I've got a pinned post where I'm telling my story which you saw where you pulled up before, um, and you can move through that carousel, that's that's that's a start here type post where people can connect with my story and that organically drives enquiry.

Into working with us further, so I've got that in carousel storytelling form, but then I've also got a pinned video in storytelling form telling my story as well on the far left, yes, so that one, yeah, so, so that, so that's that all it is is storytelling.

So whether it's through a carousel or a video, if you know if you go down Gideon, there's a few photos with me, um, that you'll find a little further down.

Yeah, yeah, well any of those with my, yeah, with my face with a caption, yeah, go to that's a video, that's a video, yeah.

Yeah.

uh, this one here.

Nope, nope, that's uh that that's that's not the style, that's a podcast carousel.

Yeah, here we go, here we go, so this is this is this is pulled a story that I'm telling with a lesson.

So the storytelling carousel, so it's the same thing, right, you just take different B-roll images and then put the text, you can knock up one of those in about 10 minutes, and certain ones, they really do exceptionally well, man, that can drive a lot of inquiry, and it's all about enquiry.

This is interesting, have you tested using that same idea on, Uh, short form video like portrait, you know, reels basically on, on Instagram, like taking the, the story, telling structure, maybe it's even the same B-rolls, maybe it's even just you with a voiceover over that and comparing or seeing how that goes.

Have you tested that at all? So yeah, no, to be honest I haven't.

I haven't because in my mind, man, it takes me longer to do that and then edit it, then bang out one of those, but yeah, I should, I should, I should cos reels where it's at.

Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm wondering if, I mean even if you don't do B-rolls, even if you just sort of maybe.

Well, well, maybe here's something you can try and maybe I could ask you later how it goes, but maybe what you could do is take one of these ones that, that's doing really well.

Let's say, let's, I don't know if this is a, a good one, but let's say we take this one for example.

So you, you've got the carousel.

I've got, I can't see, I can't see that far from there cos cos I've got the long camera.

What does the text say? Oh, OK, so this one says, uh, I only did audio interviews so they wouldn't see my bedroom.

Yeah, that's a good one, that one did well, that one did well, well.

OK.

So let, let, let's take, let, let's take this one for as an example.

So let's say you notice that this one just totally smashes it, and it's, it's a, it's a carousel, uh, carousel, right, and but then you take that same content idea, and you just stand in front of the camera and, you know, hit record.

And maybe you just use those, each of those like slides.

To, to create a video, and the video can just be you on camera, you don't need any B-rolls or anything, it's just you basically going through that story, just telling it to the camera.

Kind of like, kind of like how you're doing your solo, uh, podcast at the moment, like I really like those, I listened to a couple this morning, it's like, wow, they're so cool, and they're nice and short.

I wonder if you could, Test, I don't know, if, if you wanted to test just taking those carousels that are doing really well, turning it into a little quick video of you just, you know, Nathan to camera, that's it, no editing, you don't even need captions necessarily, you can add captions if you want to.

And when I say captions, I mean the burning the text of what you're speaking into the video, that sort of thing.

It's, it's pretty quick.

Yeah, you got it these days, right? Yeah, it's non-negotiable, you need captions, you need a juicy cover with a hook, like it's everything, man.

OK.

Well, OK, so that's, that's my challenge to you, to you to, cause I, I, I'd be really interested in seeing how that goes, especially with the, the growth that you're getting and also knowing what I know about how important video is for Instagram, you know, at the moment, but also not just Instagram, and repurposing that into other platforms too.

I think there's potentially a big A big leverage for you to be had, yeah.

Yeah, I think that's a fantastic idea, man, and what I'll do is I'll give that content to Claude or Chat GBT leaning more towards Claude these days, and then I will, Get it to write a script and then I'll just use the teleprompter app and straight in, yeah.

Well I, you know I, I haven't tried this uh this strategy, but, but to me it sounds like, A really solid idea because what's happening here is you're essentially testing the good ideas with a very quick and easy way to, you know, with the, the slides and the text on, on the, on the screen, uh, you know, with these uh carousels.

And then, you know, they're pretty, you're saying it's 10 minutes to, to pop those.

Out, uh, over time you're gonna get winners, and then what you do is you just pick the winners and turn them into videos, and then see how they go, how well they get shared.

That'll be, I mean, I, I mean, I'm keen to try that myself.

Yeah, yeah, I, I think that's a fantastic idea, but yeah, what I find is, It's gotta be a strong hook with an emotional or emotive story and telling that story with a lesson, right, and the more vulnerability you can share the better.

Like, I didn't really wanna do this and I have to give a shout out to my fiance Miriam because she uh.

She's um she's a neurologist but believe it or not she really enjoys the content creation side of what I do with my personal brand so she she helps me here and there, I must admit she does help me and I've gotta give her a shout out um, so you know uh I'll tell you I'll give you an example and the reason I tell this is really important so.

I have food allergies and I.

I'm allergic to dairy, egg, nuts, sesame, peanut, coconut, all these different things and, uh recently I had like a really bad anaphylaxis where I was in ICU for a couple of days and, She took a photo of me in the ICU bed and.

She, off her own bat, cos she knows and she's like invested and it's really fun for her sometimes you know just helping me create content that, She created this carousel talking about my anaphylaxis and my story.

And you might be able to find that post, I think I posted it either like in June or May.

Yeah oh there you go, you found it already.

There you go.

You're not looking good here Nathan.

I, I was worried when I saw this.

Yeah dude if you click on yeah if you go to that one that one so this is actually this is actually a a carousel isn't it, but it's OK this is on Facebook now but it's, it's in a sort of carousel.

Yeah yeah yeah so I post it on Instagram, anything I post on Instagram it gets repurposed, right? And so that one crashed.

Now I wasn't gonna post it.

I really wasn't cos I thought it was a bit much.

I did think it was a bit much.

But it did really really well and it showed a side of me that a lot of people wouldn't know.

Right, it showed a side of me that I a lot of people wouldn't know that I have food allergies and I have these.

You know, I guess challenges with my health, um, so the more what I've found is the more vulnerable I can be, the more I can tell certain personal stories and tie it into business lessons, people really appreciate that, and yeah, that one crashed, man, like really that one did exceptionally well.

I think that got at least.

300,000 views, maybe? Maybe half a million, maybe half a million views, dude.

Wow.

I thought you said crashed, but you mean crushed, like it actually crushed, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it did really well.

Awesome.

Yeah.

OK, so, so that's a really very interesting example of where you, you actually shared something that you weren't sure about sharing like beforehand, tell me about, cause I've had this before as well.

I wanna hear.

What you felt like just before sharing it and, and then you know once you got the views, how that, the journey that you went on from a feeling perspective.

So I was really nervous.

I was kinda had that feeling of like what do people think this guy's milking his anaphylaxis, like what a sellout.

He you know he almost died and he's using it to tell a story, to sell product and I didn't try to sell, there's no CTA in that one.

Um, from memory.

You, you look at this, I don't, I don't see, I don't see one here, so the last slide of the CTA.

What's the last slide? I, I think this is the last, I'm grateful to still be here and even more focused on what matters, so I didn't see a CTA here, yeah, so no CTA yeah.

So yeah, um, there's no CTA, but you know, I was just like, oh, you know, what do people think of me, you know, milking this thing, right, like almost died, and so I, I felt embarrassed, nervous.

Um, Anxious and obviously after I posted there was a lot of people that reached out to me that some people I haven't spoken to in a long time asking if I'm OK.

And of course I let them know I'm OK.

A lot of people come out of the woodwork and it was, it was really, it was really amazing in fact like there was a somebody that you know shared like thank you for sharing this, another successful founder and you know she shared that her son has allergies and it you know it gave that person hope that, uh, you know you can their their son can live a normal life cos they see how I'm living my life and it was it was really special man so.

Um, it was amazing, and but, but then also, you know, I wanna caution that there is a dopamine hit that comes, man, where you get hooked to and it's like, oh how do I get another 0.5 million views, you know, you know what I mean, like, and it, it, it's, there is an unhealthy obsession with this kind of stuff, right, not only just from a business outcome but just from a, a vanity metric of like, you know, you're chasing that next big post, and I, I'm always trying to be conscious of that as well, right, cos it is a dopamine hit.

And uh yeah, it is something that you, you should be self-aware of, right? Tell, tell, tell me a, a little bit more about that uh side of things as well, because there is, there is a dark side of personal branding that I think A lot of people don't talk about because it, you know, when you come across it the first time, just, just the, the nature of it, even the name, personal branding sounds, you know, it really appeals to the ego, right? Cause you go, oh, I can, I can, I can build a, a name for myself.

I can build a presence for myself.

That sounds really exciting.

Where do I sign up? But, but there is a darker side to it as well, like this vanity metrics stuff and, and kind of getting Getting swept away by that.

Um, what else, what, what other things, I, I've got something in my mind in particular, but I wonder if you've got the same thing in your mind.

What other Things are sitting there on the darker side of personal branding that people need to be aware of at least when, as they get into it.

Yeah, so a couple of things, right? As you start to get traction with your content, it can stroke your ego, um, and you, you know, you have people writing to you every day telling you how amazing you are, and you can start to believe that, and believe it to the point that it can be, yeah, dangerous if you're not careful, um, and, You know, one thing I can tell you, Gideon, is.

Having a personal brand is the new cool from my experience, right, being a content creator is the new cool, you're not an influencer anymore.

Influencer had a bit of a dirty connotation and word to it now, we're we're all content creators, man.

So, so when I look at subculture.

I think it is from a social perspective, it is a cool thing now to be a content creator.

And I think that that is, you know, there's been studies done, um, surveys done, kids now they all wanna be YouTubers, man.

Like that's that's the number one career, right? So, so from a subculture perspective it is the new cool.

I think entrepreneurship was the new cool and now it's moving more into kind of this idea of yes entrepreneurship is still the new cool but then even a step further is being a content creator and I saw it amongst podcasting now like dude.

We were doing podcasting a decade ago and I thought I was late to the game.

Now look, everyone has a podcast, it's insane man.

So like, that's once again, it's kind of the new cool, everyone has a podcast, it's cool to have a show.

So.

The dark side of it is it can stroke your ego, the more and more content you create, you find yourself in this hamster wheel, where it can become a grind and, It's all about the next piece, the next video, all these different stuff, and it can be, it can become demotivating and bad for your mental health if you don't hit the numbers that you're used to hitting.

Um, and it's, you just gotta be conscious of it cos oftentimes we are not in conscious control of our thoughts, our feelings, and what we're doing.

So the more you can be conscious of it, the less you can let it affect you.

OK, so, so I wanna dig into that a little bit more cause I've, I've been through it myself a little bit on a, probably a more a mini scale, but I, I felt it enough to realise that there is a dark side to, to personal branding.

And I, I don't want to talk personal branding down at all.

I think it's, it's an incredible vehicle.

In fact, I'm, you know, I wanna get back into it myself again, but if you remember from my interview from 2019, I've, you know, I told you I'm, I've, I've been going in circles, you know, back and forth.

So, um, but it's because I experienced, you know, both, both sides.

Um, but for someone getting into it and keen to build it, and maybe they're already on their journey, maybe they're already starting to feel the darker side of personal branding, what's, what's your advice for dealing with it? You, you, you mentioned just, you know, being aware of it, but are there some Some specific things you think you can do to sort of um guard yourself against, uh, you know, the darker side, the, the, the dangers of, of personal branding, so to speak.

And I, you know, it just, I just wanna mention this.

I didn't plan to go down this path, but I think it's a very interesting and very important part of the, the, the conversation.

Yeah, look.

Hard to say, like I'll always speak from a place of experience.

Man, I don't have a big enough personal brand to probably comment I think.

um, all I can share is, it's something to be aware of and it can be a bit of a grind, like it's it's it's really powerful, don't get me wrong and I can see why a lot of people want to do it, but at the same time, You don't have to do it to build your business.

I really wanna caution that, you don't have to, but if you do and you do it right, it can be incredibly powerful.

And you know when I did it after the 1st 90 days, you know what the number one thing I worked out was, I should have been doing this years ago.

And I jokingly say I would've been a billionaire.

Like I'm being facetious, the, the point I'm making is like it would've been so powerful if I was building my brand.

Like I, and I was, but not intentionally, um, and I was producing content for the past 10 years through Nathan Chan and building a filing for Nathan Chan.

Um, look, I, I, no doubt about it, dude, like found it would be bigger than it is, no doubt about it.

So I think I'm not in a position where I think I can comment on the true depths of the darkness and the dark side of it, but what I can say from my own experience and personal experience is one, it can stroke your ego if you let it, and two.

Uh, it can be a serious grind and you can get very demotivated and that's what causes this up and down and then you lose traction and then you beat yourself up when you stop.

So you've gotta, you've gotta find a way from my experience to share the accountability and then also not make it so growth and Vanity Metric focused and focused on impact and storytelling and not having, you know, not, not putting so much pressure on, you have to be, you have to do better than your last post.

That's a nice segue, uh, I think, uh, Nathan, because, or, or, or at least it, it's pointing towards a segue for me, which is, you know, you've, you've got this personal brand that you're building, uh, it is hard work, you know, it takes time and effort, but you're also still building the founder brand as well.

So you, you're running both, uh, at the same time.

So, what's your, what's your best tip at the moment for, for other founders, uh, who's got like their normal business going? Whether it's uh a media business like yours or a product business, uh, like an e-commerce business, or whether it's a software business like, like mine, cause I'm, I'm going through the same tensions at the moment.

What's your advice for building both? Cause you've got two brands going and they, they complement each other, but it's, it seems like it's almost like two, they're two separate brands, definitely, but almost like two separate companies almost, also.

So, what's your best advice for doing both effectively without burning out? Yeah, I think, look.

I think it comes down to you can only do one thing at a time and you've got to get your business from my perspective in a place where you can do it, but then at the same time you lean into your strengths too, um, so if you naturally are watching this and you naturally, Like talking, you naturally enjoy creating content and it's fun for you, and that's something that you can integrate into your company right now.

So as an example, uh, I'm in the circle uh, I'm an investor in an angel listed investor in a very successful company.

I'm not gonna share the name cos of the but he sends out updates and I read an investor update where he sends it to every single investor every every month.

And I read an update just around how he's building his company and he's just recently launched a media arm of the business.

Um, so it's a software company, you know, traditionally not, you know, a company that that does much media or whatever, and now he's launched a media arm of the business and it's doing exceptionally well.

And what I'm finding in terms of trends in the marketplace, whether you label it personal branding or or founder led content, whatever you label it as.

The companies that are growing really fast and are on the cutting edge, um, one tool or vehicle that they're using is this idea of content led marketing, you know, like turning their company or an arm of their company into a media, media property or or component of their business.

So like I've interviewed founders now, and you know they're building a marketing team and they're mainly hiring content people because that's what it is.

So, My advice to founders wherever you're at is try and find a way to have, have, it's just still that single straight line.

It's not two separate things, it's just a straight line that is just fully integrated and that you can you can kind of interweave your, you know, you and building your personal brand, tying it to your company goals and interweaving the, the content and the things that you're putting out there that leads back to your company, so it's actually one in the same.

Uh, but you have to feel ready to do it and you have to be part of your strategy.

If, if you just go, you know what, I've watched this or I've been thinking about it, I'm just gonna start, you're probably gonna stop.

And that's, that's the key.

The moment you stop is the moment you lose cos once you get on this train, if you wanna actually build momentum, you can't get off the train.

Like otherwise it's just a waste of time, personally.

But once you start.

You know, you have to keep going, and that's a scary thought to many.

For me, I actually am comfortable with the fact that I'm gonna be posting content for a very, very, very long time in my life now.

I actually don't care, like it's actually part of now who I am, what I do, right, and it's, you know, there's certain people right now that that they share that for free and they make no money from it, right, like you know what I mean, like that's what social media's about, you're posting stuff for for people that don't have a business, that's what they're doing, right, so.

Um, that's how you gotta think about it, like, and you know, if it feels uncomfortable, that's OK.

Uh, it, it, if it feels uncomfortable, you probably should do it.

Uh, so you know that, but you wanna lean into your strengths.

I can't stress that enough.

So if it's not a strength, it's not something that comes naturally to you, then you look at it and go, OK, well, is it part of my strategy? Yes, well, OK, then what can I do from a resourcing perspective to hold me accountable.

Um, you know, that, that, that's the next step.

If, if it doesn't come naturally to you and it's not something that you, you feel like it's a strength of yours or you naturally lean into in your own personal life or posting content, posting stories, all that kind of stuff, then it's like, well, what can I do from a resource allocation perspective and how can I, if I start, I never stop.

Mm.

So, I love what you've mentioned.

There are a couple of things to help you sort of stay on the path if you're a founder, but you wanna build a personal brand alongside your company, uh, brand as well.

The straight line idea, you know, having kind of both work towards the same path.

That's how I interpreted that from what you said.

Uh, but then also recognising your strengths and making sure that, you know, if this is not 100% your strength, that you build a team or resources around you.

Uh, one quick more question on this, uh, Nathan, and we've got to start wrapping things up.

I know you're a busy man, but, um, what, what practical things do you personally do to help you get both done? Cause I mean, it, it's, it's like, you've mentioned you spend like an hour or something a day.

On, on the personal content, but do you have, uh, like a team around you, like, just before this interview, you had someone there set up all the cameras and stuff for you.

So it sounds like you don't even have to worry about that.

Like, give us a bit of an insight on, on your, your personal setup that you have there for.

Doing both the uh the the content for your personal brand, but also the like the, the interview series that you do for Founder, cause that's like the, the, the, the video podcast, cause that would be a significant time commitment as well.

What are some practical things that you do that others can learn from as well? Yeah, so if you think about the straight line approach, I've always kind of like founder is a media company or in the business of content and I'm always looking to kind of, Look at the content that we're producing, how can we spin it and get more leverage from it, um, so.

I have a, I, I, you know, I, I am a rare rare case in that standpoint of like, uh, you know, we've been doing this for a while, but, um, so I have a team, uh, that, that are, you know, we, we've got a show and we're constantly putting our content through founder for that show, but now more than ever, I'm taking pieces of that and then putting it through Nathan Chan and all of that good stuff, but I think to answer your question for anybody that isn't, you know, running a media business, this is truly kind of just new to you and you've got a SAS business or a service-based business or you know digital product business and your education business and you're looking or physical product business and you're looking to start creating founder led content, that's what you know, that's how you need to think about it.

It's not about personal branding.

I've gotta do this thing.

It's just like founder led content.

So, so you've got to first and foremost I live and die by my calendar.

So I have a, a block of time where I'm looking at content, I'm planning content and I'm preparing content.

So you have to be able to find ideally 3 to 5 hours in your day per week, right? 3 to 5 hours per week, that's how like that that level of allocation I think will serve you and if you can.

Create the content then, but you should always um know who the thought leaders are and draw that inspiration.

Drawing that inspiration and then using AI and all of those tools to help you, that's where it's at.

And you can take it a little deeper, which I haven't got to yet, Gideon, where you can use tools like NAN you can automate a lot of these things.

I haven't got there yet but I will, where you can automate and have agents going out and researching and finding the content, and creating the scripts and then you actually shooting it and then it going to be edited by like, you know, somebody else, but I haven't got there yet, but you can, you can automate a lot of the project management, you can automate a lot of the discovery, but the biggest thing I want people to takeaway is one, it has to be in your calendar.

And 2 The best way to give yourself a chance of knowing what to create is knowing your market, the who's who in the zoo, the thought leaders, and then finding their outlier content and then drawing inspiration and creating variations of that.

It's the number one way, number one way.

If you want to create a viral reel, you have to find another viral reel, look at the packaging of it, slightly tweak the packaging to make it sit and fit with your narrative, but use that exact packaging.

It's the only way, everyone does it, man.

People, people.

Get made fun of for doing it, but it's what everyone does.

Mm.

Talking of which, I, I, I know you love modelling from other successes, you're really, really good at that.

Um, who are some people that we could follow or go and check out to learn about personal branding from your point of view, but also maybe founder-led content? Who's doing it really well that you're noticing? You've mentioned some people in your previous podcasts, but who's at the top of your mind right now? Yeah, so I think um.

Vision from Mind Valley, you know, we, I, I love what that guy's built, um, it's, it's an incredible education company, much bigger than founder, and, uh, look, he's done a fantastic job with his personal brand, but how he integrates authors and his lifestyle and all sorts of things.

Um, so Mind Valley in particular Vision, he's doing a fantastic job.

I look at Stephen Bartlett, what he's done with his podcast, and then building his personal brand and then integrating it into a whole media arm and venture arm of his business, which is really impressive.

Uh, Dan Martel, I think he's doing a fantastic job with his personal brand, and then, um, you know, driving enquiry for his coaching programmes and all sorts of things there.

So, so those are a few that I think are doing an exceptional job.

And I think you've already mentioned uh Dain Walker as well, so another person to check out as well on personal branding.

In fact, that's one of the things you're used for doing the, the 90 day challenge, right, so for your personal brand, awesome.

Yep, yep, 100%.

Another one I like as well, he's an instructor of ours, he did an incredible.

programme in the Founder Plus platform, his name's Rory Vyden, and he's the guy behind like Ed Mylette, Lewis Howes, all these super massive, uh, thought leaders in all sorts of different spaces and uh yeah, he taught a programme on this, like it's, it's amazing.

I'm actually just on this page right here right now on your founder website, so you've got a a course with uh Rory, uh in there that people can get access to, so that is really awesome.

Nathan, uh, we've gotta wrap things up, uh, I know you've gotta go on to your next interview.

This was just really, really amazing.

Where could people go to find out more about you and what you're doing with your interviews and with your personal brand? Uh, we've just, uh, shown Rory here, which is on the Founder website, but where shall we send people to go to find out more about you and Founder? Yeah, you can go to founder.com/membership where you can get a $1 trial of our membership.

It's uh $99 a month.

We're just about to launch a new version of our platform.

It's gonna be crazy, Gideon, um, we'll have an AI agent, uh, we're gonna call it co-founder, where it's an AI coach or a co-pilot which is trained on all of our unique proprietary content.

Um, we're gonna have, uh, you know, more than ever, more live events content that we're putting out to really, really help you start and grow your e-commerce brand.

So if you're in the e-commerce space, you wanna start or grow a physical product brand, that's us, and, uh, yeah, really excited for this new platform, we're gonna have a, a really customised mobile app so you can take your learning from desktop, to, uh, your mobile phone.

We've got the AI coach coming as well which is gonna be, Just incredible that we've got an AI pairing service, so wherever you're at, you know, like we'll be able to pair you with local members in the community at similar stages to you, uh it's it's gonna be crazy man.

Awesome.

So if you're listening to this, that's founder.com/membership and that founder is spelled without the E, of course, it's FOUNDR.com/membership.

Make sure you go and check that out.

Nathan, thank you so much, man.

That was just so much fun chatting to you and thank you for all the insights and the depth of knowledge and experience.

And I just must say, I've always just admired your work ethic and the The ups and downs that you've been through, it's not always just ups and you know, you've just kept on going, so thank you so much for all your advice and for just being an awesome inspiration.

Thank you so much.

Oh, you're welcome, thanks so much for having me, Gideon, pleasure.

Thanks for tuning in.

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