Episode 12- Tina

Tina Trumble shares her profound journey through grief after losing her two daughters, highlighting the importance of support, community, and finding purpose in healing. This episode explores how to navigate traumatic loss, create supportive spaces, and honor loved ones' memories.

Tina's book, "Everything Beautiful" will be available April 12th on Amazon.

If you're interested in checking out Tina's support group you can find it at   www.lets-be-real.org

This podcast is dedicated in loving memory of Declan Shaw ONeil and Jennifer Lynn Barry <3 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome everyone to Grief and Gratitude. We are here today with Crystal. Hey, Crystal. Hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Good to see you.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

And good to see you. And Tina Trumble. Tina is an author and also has a website called let's be real.org. We met Tina through social media and she wants to share her story with us today. Thanks, Tina, for being here.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Thank you for having me. So my story begins in 2020, on September 19th of 2020. My son went to a get together. He was a senior in high school, and the kids were all doing virtual schooling because it was COVID. I thought nothing of it. He'd been to this young man's house a thousand times. He lived a mile up the road from our house. At 4:30 in the morning, I got a knock on my door by the state police that there had been an accident, and my son was in critical condition, and there had been a fatality in the accident as well. I called his father. We're divorced and met him at upstate trauma center in Syracuse, where my son was undergoing surgery for eight hours. And I sat in a room with an investigator and my ex-husband while we waited for the charges to change. They didn't know if he was going to make it through the surgery. It's literally cowfields, cornfields. It's not, you know, we can't always get cell service. And they were struck by a drunk driver who then fled the scene. They know he was drunk because they pulled him over, you know, with the vehicle description. And uh he was three times the legal limit. My son was in the hospital and underwent surgeries in and out of the hospital for over a year. He had a lot of problems after everything, and his girlfriend was killed instantly, which is very traumatic for any young child. I felt, I mean, he was only 17 at the time. His girlfriend was only 16. I helped her mom a lot with her grief. I held her hand. I just had no idea how to comfort her and comfort my son in that time. And after we got my son out of the hospital and on the road to recovery, he graduated with his class. Very proud of him because not very many kids could do that with being in the hospital and all the surgeries that he was going through. He graduated on time with his class. And then my mom got sick. So because my son was in need of nursing, he stayed with his grandmother, his paternal grandmother. And I moved to my mom's to take care of my mom. That was in 21. In 22, my sister, who was my best friend in this whole world, and uh her and I are closest in age of all my siblings, she passed away due to drugs and alcohol addiction, and my mom's health deteriorated. Losing a child is something I could only empathize with at that point with her. But then in 2024, on August 1st, I received a phone call from my ex-mother-in-law that both of my daughters were killed in a car. Um, they were 17 and 19. They'd been living with their dad. When people are divorced, you know, they usually live with one parent. They were almost out of high school, stayed with dad. My world was rocked. All those people that I'd helped and held their hand to through that losing a child. You don't understand until it's you. And um, that was the hardest thing that I've ever had to go through. Five weeks after my girls passed away, my mom passed away. And that's when everything really hit me hard. I can say I'm not proud of it, but I really lost my marbles for a little while. I wasn't eating, I wasn't sleeping, barely just going through the motions. I mean, I went to work every day, but I wasn't there and I was getting physically ill because I wasn't taking care of myself. I decided I needed to sit with my grief and really try to get some help. I reached out to therapy. I couldn't get on a list for anybody to help me. I mean, I was on a list and it was like six to eight weeks long. And it's I tried uh grief share. It really wasn't for me. And then I started to travel. I took my daughters to places that they wanted to go. So I started my journey in Maine and all the way to Florida. Went on several different trips, obviously, because nobody can take that much time off work. But I uh I wrote about my journey, both my grief journey and my physical journey of going to all these places that they had wanted to see and doing things that they had wanted to do. And I wrote a book about that. I created the let's be real.org because I couldn't find support. It's free. I've made sure that it's free. There's no religious affiliations because I think that grief is a human, I mean it's a human experience, and it shouldn't matter what religion you are. You shouldn't feel like you can't get support because you don't have the same beliefs as other people. And I have really come a long way in the last year and a half. Yeah, I still have bad days. Everybody, you know, anybody who's ever experienced such traumatic grief will it never is going to go away. Learn how to live with it and find some good in this horrible situation. I stopped asking why, and that's when things changed for me. I'm never gonna get the why. I'm never gonna understand why this happened. I only get the answer to what's next. What do I do now? And I really truly believe in my daughter's spirit because they were so giving and so loving and so kind that they would want me to put my hand out for other people and try to help them. And that's why I created the group and why I wrote the book and why I reached out to you guys because I really think that their story is important, and I think that no one can get through this alone. People need other people to be supported. Grief needs to be witnessed, and that's something I've read about, you know, and I really didn't understand, but it really does. You really do need other people, you can't do it by yourself. That's where I'm at, and I'm not done with their journey. We're going to California next month. So I'm very excited about that. They had a lot of places and things they wanted to do with their life and they didn't get to. So I'm on a mission to make sure I can check off as many things off the list that I knew about and take them to everywhere that is beautiful because they deserve to see it.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

That's amazing. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Thank you for sharing, Tina. I think one thing you said that really struck me was when you stopped asking why, right? That's when the shift occurred for you. Because we can get stuck there, right? And our brain can even get stuck there. It's it's almost like we we think if we know it will change something, right? Yeah. And it and it doesn't, right? And so you realized that's when the shift happened for you. Was there someone or something that made you realize that? Or how'd you get there?

SPEAKER_00 7:28

I think it was mostly just the constant. I mean, you guys understand the constant dialogue in your head, you know, why, why this, why them, why now? Like, why? I'm never gonna get that answer. And when I came to that resolution in my own thoughts, like, I'm never gonna know. Everyone says, you know, God has a plan and there's a reason for everything. I don't get to know. I don't get to know what that is or what that looks like. The only thing I can control is what's next for me. What do I do now? For the first time in my life, I woke up in an empty house with no one to take care of. I don't have to take care of anyone. And that was very hard.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

And I think the why goes along with what if? What if I did this? What if I did that? And a lot of people get stuck on that too.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

I had that with my sister a lot. What if I would have, you know, been more present for her? And I think uh, you know, a lot of people who lose someone to addiction have those questions, you know, and they have that guilt. But that's just we don't get to know those answers. We only can control what's next.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

We can yeah, we can learn, you know, my sister, my twin sister passed from a drug interaction and I was with her that night and I had those moments. Like, what if, you know, what if I realized this and instead of going, you know, doing this thing with her, I did that thing or I recognized her need, and everyone's just living, right? You're live, you it's not that we miss it. It's just somehow that is their story, right? And I think to find peace within that. Can you tell us? I would love to know your daughters' names and just a little bit more about them.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah. So my oldest daughter's Haley. Um, Haley Elizabeth Trump. She was she was a free spirit. She's my little hippie child. I love that girl to the moon. She loved animals and they both volunteered at the Central New York Cat Coalition. Sorry. She had just found two kittens on the side of the road, and actually, they were supposed to pick them up that day. And one had to have surgery. Their brother adopted the kittens, so he still has both of them. Haley was she was kind to everybody. She didn't have a bad thing to say about a single person. She had, you know, her moments. We had, you know, our mother-daughter arguing about what you're gonna wear, and you can't wear that, and she liked to barely wear clothes. And, you know, sometimes that was an issue. But she was a good spirit, she was a good soul, and she was kind. And I miss her. My Shelby, Shelby was my youngest. Um, she could never sit still. That girl was a ball of energy from the moment she came into this world until the moment she left it. She was constantly making people laugh. She was a goof. She was such a goof, a much louder. She was the kind of person where when they walk in the room, everyone noticed them. The energy just shifted. She too, very kind, very inclusive, loved everyone, had a lot of friends. They both had a lot of friends. We live in a tiny, small town in Hannibal, New York. I don't know if you know where that is, but I think the graduating class of like 70 kids. It's not very big. Very small town. It really rocked everyone losing them. Their dad actually did life 360 to find out where they were because they were home and he drove to the accident. And I can't even imagine that, like seeing it. I got the call, but I didn't have to see it. And I feel for him because that's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

And as siblings, right? Because they were together. Yes. With right, they I have two girls and the relationship between siblings, right? It's they were together. I think they were together.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

And that brings me comfort. And they were cremated together. Their ashes are together. Their dad has half, I have half, and I've spread them a lot. I take little bits of them and put them out. If there's, you know, Haley, my oldest, always wanted to go to Maine. Shelby was more of the city girl. We did, you know, Boston and Destin, Florida for her. She was daredevil. Haley liked the mountains and they always wanted to go to the ocean, made sure that they did that several places. It's hard to have an unfinished life for your child. Like I'll never, they'll never get married, they'll never have babies, they'll never I'll never be a grandma. With my son's injuries and accident that he had, that's not possible. I just won't ever have a grandchild.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

And that's well, and always being like, what I wonder what they would be like now. Yeah. Like my son, he passed when he was nine and his birthday is in January, and he would have been eleven. And it's only two years, but I am, you know, I oh I still think, what would he be like now? What would he like to do? Um, would he still like the same things or would he like something new, you know? So I think some of the same thoughts as you.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

I think with that, it's so hard to lose someone who's so important and such a huge piece of your life. You know, I know a lot of people who've lost, you know, a child. Like my mom was saying, it doesn't matter how old they are, they're still your baby. You know, when my sister passed away, it was really hard on her. And I I empathize and I understood how she felt. I thought I did, but you don't until it's something completely different. Like your whole heart is just out of your body. It's just hard.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

And your son is how old now? Twenty twenty-three. So you have he's grown. And is what is his name? Riley. Riley. Do you get to spend a good amount of time with him in school?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

I see him as much as I can. He works, he's got a job, and he works, and he's just being a young man and coming into his own. He, you know, with the loss of his sisters, he's been through a lot, you know, at a very young age, and he's lost important people, and that's hard. No, we don't see each other as often as I would like, but we we try to get together at least once a month to see each other. But when kids get to be that age, they don't really want to hang out with their mom.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Yeah, he he's he's doing his thing. But you're absolutely right for your son to have so many losses so young, right? Where people experience losses. I mean, from the girlfriend to his sisters to his aunt, his grandma, right? To experience all of that. Did you find you were able to provide him comfort when losing your daughters, or was he able, like, what did that look like since you were in such a sad place?

SPEAKER_00 14:13

I uh failed miserably in that. That was not my best moment as a mother. I tried to be there for him, and we got together the n the day after, and we just and he called me the night of like as soon as he got home, he called me, and we just kind of sat on opposite ends of the phone, just devastated. And he came out the next day and we just hugged each other and just clung to each other. And then I went to see him the next the day after that, and you know, we tried. I think he likes to be reserved. He doesn't like to have emotions in front of people. We don't really talk about the girls. We see each other, you know, he knows that if he ever wants to talk, I'm right here. But we don't talk about that. It's I worry about him, but I'm his mom and I'm gonna worry no matter what. I'm not the person he wants to talk to, I think.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

And I don't want to take away your feelings, or you know, if you feel like you failed, that's how you you feel. But I I imagine, right, you recognizing that he isn't one to he doesn't want to openly have those feelings. Right. By you seeing that. Yeah, by you seeing that and being available to him, um, he knows, right? I think of, I mean, my twin passed over 17 years ago, but in the beginning, you know, my mom losing her daughter and me losing my twin, it I was observing her grief at the same time. And for many years, we we couldn't quite link together to share within the grief of it all. But we knew, right? And now as time passes, we we talk about that, and and there's times we can share, and other times we just respect that we find, you know, the the gratitude apart, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Yeah, I think my son and I just have different ways of of dealing with things. And I know for a while when I was in my worst moments, it was hard for him to to see me like that. And as much as you try to show up when you're in that state, someone who knows you so well knows you're not okay. And he knew I wasn't okay, but I didn't want him to, I didn't want to burden him with my stuff. You know, that's I have to deal with this. So I think in time, probably yes, we will come together. But right now, it's just too fresh and too painful for either of us to really share.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Well, if it makes you feel any better, my son is 21 and he's the same way. He does not like to talk about it. He doesn't talk about it with me. My daughter and I will talk like happy memories and things like that. Uh, but my son doesn't. And he, when my youngest passed, he was in um, he had just gotten to Japan for a study abroad, and he stopped going to class because he was grieving his own way, and he just stayed in his dorm room practically the whole first semester, but he wouldn't talk to me about it, but that was his way of grieving. Yeah. And he's okay now. He doesn't talk about it, but he's okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

And so I think that's where we get is like if as long as they're okay, right? Like he's okay. So and he's functioning. And I hope someday that we can talk about them again. We do share memories, like we talk about like the girls, you know, stupid things that pop up throughout the day, you know, if we're together and then we see something, it's like, oh, you remember this, and da-da-da. When Shelby did that or Haley did this, and we do that. But the deep stuff, I don't think he's ready for that. And I and honestly, like to have so many losses at such a young age and to be because that's complex grief. That's that's one right after another. He he needs time to process, and I try to respect that. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Can you you had mentioned that you had started a grief group online? Can you just talk a little bit about that? Like what got you there, you know, and what is it, right? How how could someone engage in the group? Can anyone join? That's so funny. I was gonna ask the same thing. Tell us about your group.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Absolutely. It is it's called let's be real.org. And if you is there a note somewhere, well, I'll send it to you in the email. But the website is let's be real.org. We meet Sundays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays. It's online, it's Google Meet and it's free. I had to cap it at 25 people because the first couple weeks I had 50 plus people, and it was overwhelming. People were talking over one another, and you can't get anything accomplished when people are doing that. So we capped it at 25. And how it all got started was it was a Thursday afternoon. I was working from home. I was talking to my sister, who also lost her son in 2006. And we were talking about how there just really is nothing for grief. Like no groups, no nothing where people can just go. It doesn't cost anything. You don't have to get on a waiting list. I'm like, there's groups, but you know, some like grief share only meets six weeks a year in our area. They meet, they have two six weeks programs that they do. And um, there's hope for the bereaved, but it's way out in the city. It's so far for me to drive. Um, I said there needs to be something where it's accessible to anyone. I don't want it to be, I don't want it to cost money. I want it to be free, I want it to be online so people can just come as they are and stop pretending that you're fine for five minutes because you're not. So that's why I named it Let's Be Real, because she's like, if you want to do it, just make it. Just make it, see what happens. What's the worst that can happen? Nobody shows up. Okay, fine, nobody shows up. So I did it, I threw it out there, and I had a bunch of people sign up. And it was amazing. We have a great group of women and men that come and talk. Sometimes they come every session, sometimes they come once a month, sometimes they come twice a week, but it works out and I love my group. It's great. It's been very helpful. I started it f in February and I don't ever since it works out really good.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Well, it's incredible. You said, right, you have like this house to yourself and no one to care for, and then you created this thing, right? Like there's talk about and both your daughters, speaking of how kind they are. I wonder where they got that, right? To do that for others, right? To have recognized that that doesn't exist and the struggle within that, if you're looking and you can't find it and you're needing that, right? And you made that.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Sometimes it just helps people just to talk, just to tell their story, just to feel like they're heard and you know, understood. Some of the women that I have talked to in this group, I'm just floored that they have no support. And, you know, either it was, you know, I don't want to name anybody's names, but I have one woman in particular who stopped using drugs after Trump she came to my group because she was self-medicating in order to get through the day. And now she comes to group and she looks forward to the group instead of feeling like she's all by herself in this. And that made me feel wonderful. I was like, whoa, I didn't what? Like, that's crazy. But she feels supported and she feels Like she's made connections, and sometimes that's all people need is just somebody to care. So I went and got my grief coach certification and I did all that. So I had some kind of credential because I'm like, if I'm gonna have people coming to me, I'm gonna have to have something.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Well, and yeah, I think having uh a background in that in some way, but you have so much experience that that if you could have one or the other, I think it's experience over right, just someone who hasn't lived it, managing it. Um, in your group, is it something you have to facilitate or like what does it look like with 25 people?

SPEAKER_00 22:47

So how our sessions start is usually we just open it up. We if there's new people, they introduce themselves and tell us who they lost and what's going on, you know, like if they're having a serious struggle, if they're, you know, I'll reach out to them online afterwards and give them local mental health places that maybe they can reach out to. I've only had to do that one time where there was someone who I was seriously very concerned about. So but she had just lost her son seven days before. So I mean, seven days is she's very new. But it looks like us talking about different things. Like what are some of the worst things people can say when they're trying to support you? You know, we we try to have a at least a topic. The last session we talked about birthdays at the time before that, we talked about um the legalities. We actually someone was in the group and had questions about placing a tombstone. And we, my sister and I are very experienced with all this. So we were like, okay, first of all, you need to contact the cemetery. You have to have the deed to the plot. We know you've got to fill out this form, this form, this form. And, you know, and these there are women from all over the the country. So it's not just people like in my area. There's actually no one in my area, but it's all like people I've met online. And um, but the rules pretty much for cemeteries and the guidelines are pretty much the same no matter where you are. But yeah, the uh the legalities sometimes we talk about just getting through those days. I've had, you know, a lot of times when I tell my mountain story, and this is there were so many days when I couldn't get out of bed. I just couldn't. And I have to, right? Like you have to get out of bed. You can't just lay in bed. So I picture myself back on Klingman's Dome. I don't know if you know where that is in Tennessee. It's on the Appalachian Trail, which the Appalachian Trail was a big part. Like my daughter always wanted to do that. Haley, she was like Z and she wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail. So I've done like a lot of the peaks, and um, Klingman's Dome kicked my butt. So I always say when I'm laying in bed and I can't get out, I think of myself back on that mountain where I gotta get to the top because I'm doing it for her, and I have to stop, I have to rest, I have to catch my breath, I gotta rest my legs, but I'm getting to the top. I'm not gonna quit. And when I'm in bed and I can't get out, I'm like, okay, it's okay to rest, it's okay to pause, but you can't quit because that's not acceptable. So I give myself the three, two, one, get your butt out of bed. And uh I do that too.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

And it really works. Yeah. And yes, the hardest moments because you don't think about it. It's three, two, one and up. You don't let yourself go go deep in the thinking. And I think it yeah, it works really well. But if you do the three, two, one and think, right, I would end up staying.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

So what I do is I stop myself when you're because when you wake up and you're already sad, right? And I have my boss is so understanding. They will pretty much let me work from home whenever I want, because I think half of it is this they don't want me in the office crying my eyes out. So they just whenever you need to work from home, you just work from home. But if I did that, I literally would never go. So I had to like, okay, it's okay to pause when you get up and I'm I don't want to do it. It's okay to pause, but you can't quit. All right, now three, two, one, we're getting out of bed. And that's that's it. And don't think you just you do the things, you go to the bathroom, you wash your face, you brush your teeth, you get dressed, you go, and you do. You don't, you can't, it's okay to be sad because you're gonna I'm sad every day. Like it hits me every day, different parts of my day. Some there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about my girls. Not one day. I mean, whether that's you gotta go to Walmart. We used to go to Walmart together, right? And get groceries and play Marco Polo in the store. And I I hate going to Walmart because I see other moms with their kids and they're shopping, and it's just like, bam, there it is. I avoid Walmart as much as possible. That's terrible to say, but it's true. But it's everything, it's not just that, it's it's everything. I work at a college, you know. Would my girls be going to college? Would they is that, you know, something that they would have chosen to do at, you know, Haley didn't want to at first, but maybe she would have changed her mind by now, and maybe she would have wanted to. It's hard. And I'm constantly around kids that are the same age as them. And that is hard. And uh Well, I think you're doing amazing. Well, thank you. It's it's I think you're doing amazing too. Thank you. We're all just trying to do what we can. Yeah. And I think it's like grief is something that nobody really talks about. Everybody lives with it, nobody talks about it. It affects every single human being on this planet. Everybody loves someone, and everybody, unfortunately, is gonna lose someone. The one thing that I will say about that is that it needs to be talked about more. The average bereavement time in the United States is three days. Three to five days. Could you have gone back to work in three to five days after losing your son?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

I took three almost four months off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

So there's just that's for an immediate family member, is three to five days. Yeah, I I can't imagine. And some people have to do it. Right. And that's what I'm like in my group, I'm dealing with a lot of people who are all over the country and they have to. They have to go back to work. Maybe they're a single parent, maybe whatever the case is, they have to go back to work. And they're not given any time to grieve. You can't even plan a funeral in three to five days. That's it's impossible. How can you expect a parent to go back to work after losing their child like that? I was lucky because I've been with the university for almost 10 years, and I had vacation time and sick time, and I took a month off, and then I took another two weeks off because my mom's health got worse, and I ended up out for eight weeks. But again, you know, the bills don't stop and people people don't understand. So you have to not until it happens to them. They don't. They they don't understand until it happens to them. You're absolutely right. But I do think it's a conversation that people really need to start having. And grief is something that affects everyone, and they just need people need to not shy away from it. I don't know about you, but I feel like people don't want to talk to me because they think I'm contagious or something. I feel like a lot of times. I feel like people did there was a lot at first, but then everybody disappears.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

And I think Crystal and I had this conversation before how when people ask you, like they don't want to be uncomfortable. And so you don't want to make them uncomfortable either. You shrink down to make everybody else comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

That's why at let's be real, when people are crying, they start to apologize. I'm like, don't. You don't have to apologize here. Everyone here has those moments. We don't, we're not judging. That's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

And when we don't, right, we don't release or talk about it. It's held within us. It is. It stays with us and it's repressed within us. And it then affects our ability to work, our ability to hold healthy relationships, our ability, right, to get through our day. Um, and also a lot of people are uncomfortable if you truly speak to your grief, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:22

And I that's why absolutely I think that people, when people will see me at the store, like I said, I live in a small town. So people see me at the grocery store. A lot of the kids' parents, you know, kids' friends' parents and people that I know from town, they beeline away from me. Or I have the opposite effect where they come up to me and then people are just shaking and crying and holding me, and I'm consoling someone in the middle of the grocery store. None of us need that. That's hard. Like you go to the grocery store because you have to, not because you want to see people and socialize. The thing with me is I think people they don't ask you how you are. They just avoid me. Nobody talk, nobody wants to talk to me. Everyone just avoids me like I have the plague. They see me, they make a beeline away. But when I went back to work, I dealt with this a lot where people would walk past my office and they would peek in, but they wouldn't, they wouldn't make eye contact, right? Nobody wanted, nobody wanted to ask me how I was because that's how do you ask somebody how they are when they're dealing with that? You can't, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:25

And there's work, there's uncertainty of right where someone may ask, ask me, and at that time the asking me helps. Another time someone might ask me, and it's it's not the right time, right? So people I think are tiptoeing around being perfect, and that's why I've always said to all friends, family, whatever it may be, don't take it personal. Don't take it personal in how I react. Grief and gratitude, it's moving constantly, right? And I I believe if you can ask or show you're available, right? That's a starting point. We need to normalize grief. It's not, it's it's not an anomaly, right? It's not a once every, you know, it's happening and it has happened to so many people in so many ways. How do we normalize that conversation, regardless if you had this the same grief, right? Or the same loss.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Right. It's not the same loss is loss. And that's what I try to explain at grief when I'm at my, I call them my grief groups that let's be real when we have those groups. When we have those, people will come and whether it's been 20 years or seven days, you know, their loss is their loss. And if it's heavy and they feel like they need support, then that's what that's there for. And I couldn't, I was floored. When I put it out to several of the grief online, like the Facebook groups that I belong to for grief, I put it out there. I had over a hundred email addresses in three hours. I'm not even kidding. Over a hundred in three hours. So how can anyone say that there isn't a need for something like that? And it needs to be these the other part of it is there are groups that you can do online. None of them are free. And when you're struggling with your grief and you're not going to work, because that happens to people where people can't show up for work or they do, and then they're not performing because they're dealing with their grief and they aren't doing their job and then they lose their job. So now we've got a whole nother set of issues, and people are just surviving to get through the day. You don't want to put a big bill for, you know, grief therapy on top of that. People need just to be supported, they just need help. And it, like you said, it is not an anomaly. It's not anything new, it's not rare, it's out there, it's every single day. And people hide it and they don't, they shouldn't have to.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Well, I think you might have to start a few more groups after it's gonna be seven days a week, Tina.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

There is no this this three days a week thing, not enough. People hear this, they're gonna be like, All right, let me get to that group. Because people should not go to a grief group and have to be considering the bill, right? Like, oh, I can only go once this week because I only can pay for one time. I can only go to counseling every other week because of the cost, right? You should not have to be calculating a financial cost to share.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Like you should be, you should be able to, as a human being, and maybe you can't to your family. Maybe it's too raw to share how you're feeling with your family. That's okay. I feel that with my son. It's a little too raw for me to share with him how I'm feeling, and he probably feels the same way with me. It's a lot easier to talk to people outside who maybe have the same experiences and can be like, okay, you're not crazy. You're not alone. You know, this is normal. This is I felt like that too. That's how people want to know. They want to know that they're not alone, they want to feel seen, they want to feel heard, and they want to feel supported. And if I could do it seven days a week, I would. I love it, and I feel like when I'm done, I can sleep. I don't know if it's energetic like transfer. I don't know. I'm a little woo-woo on that, but maybe it's some kind of like I open up, they open up, and it's an exchange. It's an exchange of energy. And when I'm done with with group, I'm tired. And I w I sleep and I wasn't sleeping. So to me, I enjoy a group. I hate the fact that we have to have it because I wish that, you know, people weren't hurting. But I love making the connections, love feeling like they understand how I feel and that I understand them, not feeling alone.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

I I I do feel have you have you found um in the group there's ever times where it's gotten uncomfortable or someone's, you know, it didn't end up working for them, or the support that was being provided fell flat, or the group is pretty.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

We've had people who will log on and not feel like it's the right space for them, and they just don't say anything and they just exit the group and don't come back, which is fine. I invite people and they sig can sign up online through, but if I have like spaces, I'll invite, you know, people to come. I think that for the most part, people who come to the group enjoy it. I think that sometimes people aren't ready to share and they just want to be an observer, and that's fine. And they'll do that maybe for one or two times and then they'll share, which is fine too. I let everybody know that I'm just here. So you can either share or you can just listen, whatever you're comfortable with. The one thing we don't do in that group is we don't do fake. It's everybody's just real. You don't have to hide how you're feeling. If you're mad, be mad. If you're having a bad day and you're sad, that's okay too. If you're happy about something, we do a lot of celebrations. Like we had an anniversary of a birthday of the one woman whose son had passed away, and we celebrated her. We made that night about her. It was all about her. She could talk about how she celebrated his birthday and the things that she did. And then I opened it up for anybody else. Does anybody else have a birthday that they want to share? Most for the most part, I've only had like one or two people pop on, stay for a little bit, and leave. I've only had a couple. Sometimes things get, I don't want to say it, not heated, but people get talking and maybe talk over each other. And I'll have to kind of interject and be like, okay, you know, this is this is, you know, Crystal's turn. And Mandy, if you have something to share, you can share in a minute, but right now it's Crystal's turn. So, you know, we have that. But not I don't think that anybody has uh said that they felt like it was fell, you know, fell short. And if they do, that's on me, right? Like I've I'll own it. Tell me how I can support you better.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

I think that's what that's what you're doing right, right? And let's be real, you're real, right? So you want you're human, you're you're doing your best, you're bringing everyone together, and you're attempting to connect and to support. You're not holding back, you're not right, you're not tiptoeing around it. And people sense that, right? I people can sense when you are not, when you're uncomfortable or you're not being real, right? And you've you literally created this space.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Yeah. And that's all I wanted was a space where we didn't have to shrink how we're feeling, where we can just, if you're having a bad day, and the one thing I will say is that I will literally reach out to people who come to group. That's either, you know, via email or some of them I have like on Messenger. If they like my Facebook page for the group, I'll have them there and I'll reach out and be like, hey, I haven't seen you in a week or two. Are you all right? Like, what's going on? And we'll talk, you know, and that's the other thing. It's not something where you have to come all the time. But if you don't, I notice and I'll reach out and be like, Hey, you you good? Like, as long as you're good. If you don't want to talk to me, it's fine. Just give me a thumbs up that you're good. And then I won't worry about you.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

That's about it. Well, I love everything that you've said today. I'm so happy that we were able to connect. I love the traveling and so cool.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

What yeah, what a beautiful idea to do for them, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:48

My friend Seth, I went to high school with him, and he came when I moved to a Swiggle, because I moved, I moved to this city where I live now, but last January, he literally would come and sit in my living room and I would just sit there in the dark and just not do anything. That's what I did. We wouldn't watch TV or nothing. He'd just sit there. And he's like, Tell me about the girls. What did they like? What did they want to do? And I'm like, Well, they wanted to go here, here, here, and here. He's like, Let's go. And I'm like, Okay. So he literally drives me. And I just we go and we have so much fun. It's been awesome. Um, taking them to places that they wanted to go. I'm glad I can do that for them.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah, I love that. It's amazing. And then the group.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

That's wonderful too. I think you're you're doing some amazing things. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

You guys are too. I mean, this is this is cool. I've listened to some of your shows and I think this is great. Get ready for it to get big. I got a lot of followers. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Well, it it tells you how much of a need there really is. Like when you went to do the group, like a hundred people in three hours. It's there is such a need for it. There is. And might as well try, right? Might as well be there because not every outlet is gonna work for everyone. So I I do hope the podcast um is a place for people to come just like your group is.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Yeah. I think it's great to listen to other people's stories and to feel even if you're not interacting, you're listening, and you're like, hey, I feel like that. And you know, maybe I'm not, I don't know how many times you guys feel like you're losing your mind, but sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind. Yeah. I'm a little under two years. It'll be two years in August for me, and it'll be two years in September for me. Yeah, it's hard. But I'm excited about California. I never in my mind thought that I would ever go to California, ever. Because I mean, I was a single mom with three kids. Like, I'm not where am I going? I'm gonna go to Pennsylvania and see my sister. That's about it. Like, I'm not going anywhere. Um, I'm excited because Haley and Shelby were so tiny. I you've seen the pictures, they're absolutely beautiful girls, and Haley was just a little thing and she loved the woods, and I can't wait to go to the Sequoyas and just hug a tree for her. I can't.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

It's amazing. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

When are you going? We're leaving May 23rd. It's 12 national parks in 34 states. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. So it'll be fun.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Well, we will put all your info in the show notes for anyone listening. Okay. Like I said, be ready for some group.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

I'm ready. I'll send you how to spell out the let's be real.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

We'll also put your books there too. And thank you so much for sharing.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Thanks for having me. You'll have to give me a call or I'll give you a message when I get back from California. Maybe we can talk again.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

I'd love to see those pictures too. Well, that's one good thing about the book is there's a ton of pictures. A ton of pictures.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Great.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Well, I hope you have the best time and we will look forward to hearing about it when you get back.