From a Corporate Pivot to Restaurant Owner: Dewey Hasbrouck on the Hard Question Every Leader Should Ask

In this episode of Lead The Fine Print, Dewey Hasbrouck shares a leadership journey shaped by unexpected pivots, personal challenges, and a return to the hospitality industry later in life. From navigating a career path that never quite felt like his own to starting over and building restaurants rooted in community, Dewey reflects on what it means to lead with intention rather than control. He discusses the tension between moving quickly and creating space for others, and why the most effective leaders resist the urge to always provide the answer.

The conversation explores how curiosity can become a leadership advantage, how empowering employees to contribute ideas strengthens both culture and performance, and why creating an environment where people feel safe to speak up is essential. Dewey also offers a candid perspective on the responsibility leaders carry in supporting their teams beyond day-to-day operations, including the importance of providing a living wage and treating employees as contributors rather than costs. This episode highlights a form of leadership that is grounded in trust, shared ownership, and the belief that when people are supported and valued, they will rise to meet the moment.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Lead the Fine Print, a podcast that looks at leadership with more depth, more nuance, and more honesty than what usually makes the front page. Here we talk with leaders from across industries, people shaping culture, guiding teams, and doing the kind of work that doesn't always get noticed, but always makes a difference. We're not here for surface-level bites. We are here for the fine print. The context, the choices, the quiet truths behind how leadership really happens. The big moments get headlines, but the real insights, they live in the margins. This is lead the fine print. It's fun for me really to get a chance to get to know people one-on-one and hear their stories. Like it is the best part of my day. So we're gonna kick off and hear about your story today. Really glad you're here and very much looking forward to talking with you about not only your journey career-wise, but also how you came to know more about leadership. Let me first kick off and say that you are incredibly well known in the community, not only for the restaurant businesses that you own, but also about your connection in the community and the service that you provide to the community. Your name is very well known in circles in town for the good work that you and your wife do. But I was curious if we could start first with did you start in the food industry as a teenager? How did you come to find your way?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

I always had something for food. Certainly when I went to college, I weighted tables. And I remember having conversations with one of my best friends who ultimately came up became a really good chef about food, and we could talk for hours. And so I always knew there was something there. When I graduated college, I thought that was my chance to get out of the hospitality industry. I didn't realize what it offered, and nobody really at the time talked to me about that. I ended up on a little bit of a weird journey. It was the late 90s, and the dot-com era was really cranking, and a friend of mine helped me get a job at this computer company. And so I did that for several years, certainly did not love it, but did it, and it was it was fun. There's a bunch of young people working there, and I enjoyed the being around them, but I didn't enjoy the work part of it. And at that point, I was on a track that I didn't really choose. I it just kind of chose me, and it was a little strange. And I knew that wasn't for me. One of my largest customers at the time, we sold computer software and services to large companies, and I got a job working for Mead Paper with their packaging division. They did 12-pack containers for Budweiser and Coke, and they had a huge facility in Atlanta. So I went and worked as a project manager there and kind of got out of sales. And I at that point realized that I liked project managing, but I also liked sales. I liked talking to people. I didn't like the grind of sales quotas and stuff, but I I did like being able to converse with people and be around people. Just to tell you, I got really sick. I was diagnosed with a kind of a chronic illness that was really a life changer. I was out of work for about a year and had to build myself back up into something and decided to get more into healthcare. I went back to graduate school. I went to Vanderbilt and got an MBA. Just kind of doing it. I was forging myself forward, not knowing where it was heading, and it was really strange. I got a few jobs in the medical field. I worked for a software company, sold software to hospitals, and then I switched over and worked for a device company. The last thing I did before the restaurants was working, selling medical devices to surgeons. I liked dealing with the surgeons and with the offices and the people, and I hated the corporate side of it. I didn't work for a good company. I didn't really think they were nice to work with. They didn't motivate me. And I ended up getting out of that. Over the years, I've become really good friends with these guys who started Moe's barbecue. One day I was talking to my wife, and mom had passed away. I had a little bit of money to do something with, but it wasn't enough to start a restaurant. But it was just enough to take a salary hit while I found what I wanted to do. I was about 40 at the time. And my wife had said we ought to call the Moe's guys and see if we can move to Maine and open a Moe's barbecue. At the time, they had one or two restaurants in Colorado. They were all from Alabama and weak. So we just ended up picking up our stuff and moving to Maine and completely changing industries and found the restaurant industry again after what had been about 20 years. So I got back into hospitality later in the game. And I think a lot of people do hospitality early and then they quit when they're 40 because they're burned out. I was the guy that quit everything else and then went back into it at 40 and have been doing it ever since.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

That is a very uh diverse way to get about things, and I really appreciate hearing that because I often think people have this idea that in order to get from where you want to go, you it's sort of A to B, or the very direct line. And this story tells us that is not the case.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

But I implot it, I but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:59

And I don't know. Or myself. I have the grass with me because otherwise. I I God thing I get out.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah. There are many restaurant franchisees out there. What was it about Mo specifically that drew you in?

SPEAKER_05 7:12

Oh Colorado scheme. Well just really got no great.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

There's three guys.

SPEAKER_05 7:48

Yeah, well, Rod Skeet again. Of course. Skeet. I ended up the art thing at back to Nashville and I saw. And I always love it. So also really. Another one was the middle of the road operational, and then the other called bark. They were in peace together. It wasn't very what building like I like that. Excuse me. It's allowed. Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

How many shops do they have open? Wow.

SPEAKER_05 10:53

Enjoy that. I should probably figure it out. I still can't step out. Basket realize about how they're down to that. All of that. I just don't know it's that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

There's something to be said about that. In particular, in a world where everything is an instant gratification, an instant solution, I can ask AI a question and it solves a problem for me. In my opinion, that's a skill set to be able to have grit and find the answer and figure out a solution. In a world in which everything is so rapid and changing so quickly, how do you build your team to have that similar mindset? In if you don't know the answer, we're going to figure it out. And it may be the hard way, and we may learn some lessons along the way, but how do you build your team?

SPEAKER_05 12:37

Well, there's a couple of things.

SPEAKER_04 13:14

Fifteen years ago.

SPEAKER_05 13:16

Yeah. Now I lay out all the office that I have. Really understand. Really looking at looking at I what like a certain look. That kind of staff also thing I tried to stop five here. But um message about it's just a sea. Or the time is right now. I struggle. Wow. Worry that they'll mess up. Always serve worry. I think it's very rust like it's very okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

I applaud you for recognizing that allowing the space for that creativity. Because I think when leaders do say, This is, you know, I've done this, it didn't work, we're gonna do it this way just because I know that this is the right way to do it. It completely demolishes that creativity and also the spirit of people that want to learn and grow because they see how you run the business, they see that things are successful. So they do want to do that. And in order to be part of that, they have to learn some of those things along the way. So I applaud you for creating an environment where making mistakes and learning and growing and offering ideas is welcome. And that's not an easy thing to do.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

No certainly that it's just great.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Isolated well.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I really like that. I'm not sure who said it, but I am going to write that down. There's great value in not immediately saying no. But again, we're just talking about create that space where people have the ability to have a say and to generate ideas. They are the ones that they're the boots on the ground, they're the front of the restaurant, they're the ones that are seeing what's happening and operationally have a better understanding, sometimes, not always, of how things might work better or an idea to fix it. And so being able to create that culture is not easy, and it does take work and commitment and recognizing that the faster way is to just say, we're gonna do it this way.

SPEAKER_05 19:48

It's kind of interesting. His whole life's leather on rest. Yeah, how uh answered all these questions. An hour and twenty minutes. I certainly am not on the line and the rest of it. So I think it's powerful.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

You are correct about that. Money is key, but the research shows that employees value those other components as well, whether it's the ability to lead and manage, be able to come up with ideas in that recognition of that and applauding those that come up with it, invaluable.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

The trick you can experiment because one of my better.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Seriously. Either for whatever reason just wouldn't listen. And so you go quiet. So how do you create that forum and space for your team to know that they can come forward and say, I think we could do this better.

SPEAKER_04 24:07

Well, well dishwasher.

SPEAKER_05 24:26

Don't really get over it. And then just kind of through how that's in there. That works really well. And then by that we've said probability. Yeah. That we set up all even just a bunch of questions. All these questions. And then you go and compile all the information. You see that there's a lot of similarity, certain topics, and that and the most important one starting right. An issue was when we the last ball. And I went in and told the guy spot the spot on that Google. He brought it up. A lot of ways there's another kind of level topic, which is I think it's we also really mastered. Read some of the books. Well, yeah. That's something. Better at others. We love to gather your staff out. Drilling down the process. What? That bridge. Blue this whole thing out. Everything back. Those types. And keep some kind of gather all that information. When I was I was applying a little bit of stuff that went out into the restaurant business. Into the restaurant. We're all good. Payroll, marketing. You know it's using things daring business wise. Every other victim of the system. I've got a few hours. Trying to understand their own process. How official? Yeah. I've always been amazed, even after 15 years, somebody will suggest something. That doing it the other way since we started, and somebody will suggest something. And there'll be such a good it's just the way you've always been always possible. Think basic.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Goes back to the professor writing on the board that you don't know shit. In a sense, we do. We have an idea about processes and we understand people's side of things, but recognizing we need to constantly be learning as leaders is a mark that a lot of leaders miss. So reminding ourselves regularly that the employees have an idea, and sometimes it really is how did we miss that or not think about it that way? And the grind of every day, to your point. The business opens at a certain time and there are certain things that have to be done, and our day is full. And so, how do we remind ourselves the importance of that?

SPEAKER_05 30:12

Not everybody is like so let's change this.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Great point.

SPEAKER_05 30:32

I come down and I say I have an idea. It's not saying you're trying to pull something, you're just going oftentimes I've met with can't be about that. I just pushed through that for that right. It's an extra step, but it's a change process. Like oops, you're right, let's do this, and it's gonna save us time on the back. We all know that much time brought in so we've always found that's part of delivering staff that certainly have a bastard.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Thank you for calling it out while welcoming change is necessary. There is some resistance, humans, right? I myself say that I want to make change, but if anybody changes what I'm doing, why would you change what I'm doing? There is an extreme resistance to that. And your point about bringing in, bringing the staff along with you in that decision-making process and not just always saying, This is what we're doing, let's go do it, is part of fostering that environment where they feel like they're part of the team and they're not just getting things passed down to them that are required to do, that there is a say in it, the why behind it is so important. And um so I appreciate you talking about the balance because it is a balance. I I feel like I watched a video on Jeff Bezos where uh one of his advisors said to him, You have enough ideas to run Amazon into the ground. And that really resonated with me as someone who likes to generate ideas and how do we do things better and how do we how how can we do this next step and to really pause and say where is the balance in bringing in new ideas and creativity and all of those things and not changing too much too fast?

SPEAKER_05 33:25

The way we were talking about which I tendency change it is who are also very that's their focus as it should that I'm trying to change. I know that, so I think value explaining that then why.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

So you open a store locally and then branch out, open another one in the southern part of the state. Talk to me a little bit about how did you know that was in evaluating decisions, how did you how did that come about to scale to open another store?

SPEAKER_05 34:24

We opened up more well really well, yes. So telling all that opening up on broad was another lesson I realized yeah thirty thousand dollars. Yeah. I thought it was hitting bread. Uh we were just so busy right now drop about something. I get all sound like a lot now. Around here at the uh sure and I'm not saying drop down well still a bit uh pretty separate. Oh no business. Another class really interesting. So actually thought these thought, wow, the bows bar itself. I look back on it now, that was one of the one of my worst life looking around in the right spot was helpful. That's got darker. Close this though, I'll show you that store honestly a lot of thought and that's really got me set up start. I'm just saying based on my instant got watching it. And just off best I got both that was not really challenging. Well, that five bottom. I clicked by it now. Realized and I signed all the note that all I don't hear I really risked at all, but one really understanding that a value normally I'd be posting. So I realized very early on the same yes, that's that's just every business I brought bar that build up to offset button. So the restaurant we were able to kind of augment. We were able I was saying earlier my joke that's uh restaurant. Restaurant, okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

It was a lot what I learned was everything I learned to toss out the courts of borrowing other plans.

SPEAKER_05 40:07

So before you got it, I don't trade it, it's hard to say some of the hardest things in my life. Um true that and this is probably one of the pre-shaped we are now much better. Well it's some guy lock them hold it off. So that's um last uh great one that happened down there, and now we've got the book pick.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

I really respect the not wanting to go back and change it or wouldn't do it differently given the lessons that were in it. And I think some of the best leaders understand the the lessons in the challenging decisions, the challenging times, and not wanting to change that because that lands you where you are today. And so, congratulations on the shift in the news store to franchise, Mo's locations, and then Woodman's, which is very different. Walk us through how that came into your, as you said, opportunity comes about. How did that come in to your world?

SPEAKER_05 41:34

Really challenged question, well means until Jackson We were certainly exit. Super strapped. And now that a customer knew that. Really super scary. Remember uh board we robbed the patient look down South Western thing that always said that a lady was owner. She's talking to her boy part of it. Mention this book don't work it. But it was this book where he talked uh how to decision. I mean everybody said a lot of business, and this was like a lot of box. It was a real good story. She said you ought to read this book. Which was this, but also like what called a good job stride by an author. Yeah. She's a business woman. But she learned about how deep down it. How many also she what I feel like is Really dive on a bus that's other ones or structure and Costco or my Sam's Club paying double bucks an hour. And it was just about helping it. I read the book really exactly. I emailed Celtic Jobs Foundation. Somebody started helping us. I remember before that, I read the book. I sent it. I think so amazingly, we just raised everybody's wave on things we a living weight. I think it was pretty much$10,000 back then. I looked on my book in the gear. He was somebody$38,000. And I we always pay the better than I rest. And I thought, oh, we're doing the right. So I felt that one. But when I looked at his two, I thought live on my house. And I was like, let's just walk right. So and the book detailed four areas. The first one that was we have everybody or rays. That looked like projections sheared. And and then too much of shake that work. I got sick. I got out of COVID. Right on that bark. I really said mostly on work four or five months. So in the meantime, I give it a look like we're gonna lose a thousand dollars. This miraculous thing also uh really I really turned to my I was down. But what happened was he still in the same step. So it was like look at this way. It all of a sudden felt like at that point guilty hot day. We just don't then raise the bar for when it we expected the players all the B and C players kind of work themselves out more to it's smart, can't we bear that? It's fine. We hired more than any other break were not shy about getting that amazingly that wall pay break here cut with buttons. We weren't spending money on training for it. So really pay off. In the meantime, the workshops jumped, so we worked operationally on how structuring that held, and then there's other how you schedule most of the laid out the ships.

SPEAKER_04 49:49

All of the little things just so they speak around.

SPEAKER_05 49:57

So look the mind that ship is certainly have one of everybody run, but sometimes some of our tenure is better money than you know pretty close to the same mic that's just one point was it's now medicine. It was pretty amazing, really and it was part of the process. I've gone down and I asked about she wrote a set book. Well, she wrote most of the point investment. Pretty much calling the expense out anyway, but I should look at is used to cost I used to that but that that when you invest in that number, jump is something I'm not worried about buying my child now. So looking a lot more at the top line, but uh it's always what share dump labor numbers at the top, super smart when they're staffed down and all of this dumb. But they do the job of having the ships accept a place doing all these things to make that's not what we're trying to find those now that pay well trying to take care of carry it. But smart but also looks smart about it.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

That's not my work on Yeah, it is a tremendous resource, and uh it's controversial on how people are using it. We talk about this at higher education level daily, but it really does afford businesses a unique opportunity to spend time and energy on other things, and for me that's what where the value add is. Thank you for sharing that about changing the mindset and shifting things. And and I would hope not from a competitive standpoint, but I would hope that other businesses hear this and read the book and consider adopting that mentality because so if you do, in the sense where employees feel like they're just going to work and they're just a number and it's a paycheck and they go home. So, again, congratulations on finding ways to make your team feel like a team and part of the business and not a cost. I really appreciated that analogy. We're here at Woodmans. Talk to me about Woodmans and how does that play in? That's okay.

SPEAKER_05 53:55

Talk about what's the why on it. So work, what is Bible?

SPEAKER_04 54:08

The first night of the conference about what was your what are you gonna twenty years? I had thought the first time in this conference about that's twenty years.

SPEAKER_05 54:48

So I really did a lot of things uh really call jobs. And one old owners of or no E stopped by my house bringing up back one by so I felt really called by check out and love. But we decided to just get all that stuff out. Here I did another referring to the question. It wasn't necessarily make we looked at the numbers, underestimated stuff areas we are tallest down by Woodland borrowed on the just come out of where barbers is that back just there was some error here that I think but all results that thought it but not on the solar stall. What is running third restaurant really done those types of things. So really challenge a couple of years down restaurant. We are trying to threat in charge. But they weren't necessarily worrying about it. We weren't necessarily bossing back right very well. This way, it was first time I've done something like this. It was just why apartment my wife, Jessica. She and I both just felt restaurant. So that's what drove Rob really challenging or all of your numbers on now, balance sheet. That is a massive emotional, but not financially, but it's a massive feels good. We have lives and basically more spot. Great spot for us to check out how to do that. Challenge fun about two and a half like now how to AI, yeah. The one about AI about it, it massively helped still uh we'll kind of get out. Uploading a bunch of different US that I also have to know what I'm doing. I probably will get five of them. That doesn't mean 145. The advantage. I know it's a lot of that problem. That's uh hold on. There are about the processing.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

We've talked so much about leadership in ways that I'm not even sure we would define as leadership and the things that you've been talking about. The podcast is about quiet leadership and essentially not having the titles or things that don't necessarily get recognized. I would imagine on a daily basis, you see quiet leadership. But is there an instance or a story that comes to mind for you of something that you've witnessed?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:35

What I really like is we're in the hot valley villain people slide. And when they have fluent or bad or bad.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:03

So I think relative is our stuff really cares about first of uh we I always felt like I can't all talk uh about processing and that power voice you're like several years ago to Mount Bag and know about until we wrote a lot and well just that was right and surprised whatever he got. As it turns out, Dogger had he has gone through it over the barn basically took his order and went up to He wrote this letter just another He said no some issues important to this when he said he locked out called me to say I just want to tell you I certainly don't really consider myself leader, but I I always play a ball and I know the things that working on and I lock that but what I feel like I have done well and this is really as small credits would be something up, and there's probably an element of higher probably an element. I see when I go to my I really not me going in there telling. And so I certainly build the structure, I think. Just around Hulah, what you're hold off now. I I start it. And so I think I'm a leader. Hold on. What we're asking. When it's not everybody's hypercensive just to me that's what long type of place. One type of place out. By their luck. If somebody somebody's in the hospital. Your job is done. That's a good job. While also allowing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

Well, this leads me to sort of our our final question, which you know you mentioned earlier in the HR seminar that you did in that would you want to work for you as a leader? I already know what your response is, but I am willing to wager that the people that work for you absolutely would say yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:15

I think a lot would now also feel like the funny part is I don't know. I've always wanted to ever I don't know if I want seriously, yeah, but would want one. Now I think we try myself knowing how I try to run that. I think that myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:22

And then for me, the whole package is hearing those quiet leadership moments. You can't teach that. I mean, I suppose you could write it in a book and you could make suggestions to employees to do that, but that that really comes from a sense of safety in a workplace to know that that is the right decision to make, whether it's been from watching you do it yourself and creating that safe space where they know that they they too want what's best for the business and their customers. And so I'm really grateful for your time today. I hope we can sit down and do this again in the future because I really enjoyed it. Awesome. Thank you. Not every chapter of leadership is bolded, but the fine print, the choices no one sees, often defines a story. Thanks for listening to Lead the Fine Print.