Two Whippin

This episode of Showpig Central explores one of the most current questions of using two whips in the ring. Josh and Carrie discuss the use of one or two whips before moving on to another key part of showmanship, the importance of the sift pen, and practicing for that key part of the show ring. The hosts share insights on training, presentation, and the evolving standards in showmanship, emphasizing the value of practice and observation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Welcome back again to the one two life test. That is not what we're doing. That is that is that is incorrect. Welcome back again to the one that's nope. Scratch, swing and a mess there. Um this thing called Showpig. Alright. Welcome back to Showpig Central. Uh another week, another episode, another stock show, another lot of things. As we uh continue on here in our new podcast platform. It's been a beautiful day, beautiful last ten minutes. If you're thinking about doing a podcast, I would encourage you to uh ask the Lord for patience, and um it will give you lots of opportunities for that. So here we are though, going after sitting here for 45 minutes to get uh technology situated. We're back.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Well part of it wasn't just technology.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

It was all technology. Technology of podcasts, technology of videos, technology of UPS and um the wonderful world of AI and computers and not being able to get help.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

It's great. It's great. If if you ever call Brockman Farms and it's a computer that says, How may I help you, just hang up and do business with somebody else instead of us, because that means that we don't I don't I don't know what it means. But here regardless, here we are live, not AI, not computer, not anything else. And um if you've read the title, I bet you tuned in even if you wasn't planning to.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Yeah, parts of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Two whipping, one whipping, two sticking, one sticking, brush weapon, um, all the above, showing on pellets, showing the sift pins, showing on shavings, showing black ones, white ones, and anything in between. But we said at the beginning of this we were gonna talk about relevant topics, and this has obviously been one that's come up lately, uh, here in 2026. So we said why not? Let's let's sit down and talk about it a little bit. So we're gonna talk about the two women thing. Real quick, and then we're gonna get to the SIF Pen. Actually, what the the tagline's just the title. Uh, we're really gonna talk about the sift pen um the most.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

But while we're here This short little um intro, I guess, is for all those kids at uh at any major show this year that have shown with two whips, and uh whether intentionally, and and I do think it was very unintentionally, um, got berated on Facebook about it. Um there was a lot of conversation during San Antonio um about kids showing with two whips. So, you know, this is for uh for for Zane Byers and Trevor Pachata and all the other kids that showed with two whips at San Antonio and then kind of got shamed about it on Facebook. Um this is our opinion and uh you know it's our podcast, so we get to to share our opinion about it.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

This is a podcast of opinions. Kind of like Livestock Showing's a podcast of opinions. So yeah, we'll we'll just start out. If you think showing with two whips is is a bad idea, that you have the right to that opinion, and I'm not gonna say that you're wrong and I'm right. Uh like Carrie said, this is just just our opinion. And uh yeah, that's that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

So um, you know, a lot of conversation these days is about trying to encourage kids to to show pigs, um, and how can we do that? And so I'm not saying that, you know, telling every kid out there to use two whips is gonna encourage more kids to show, but I have thought back um over the last week and a half about this conversation. Because I used to be a two-whip hater and I used to think that like it didn't look right in the ring and all those things. And I will say it is more camera hater. It is more acceptable, if you want to say that, now than it used to be. Um with that said, I have thought a lot about this the last week and a half, and I have thought, I wonder how many kids that we have helped maybe missed the sale at San Antonio or Houston because we were too hard-headed and prideful to say, hey, if you use two whips, his head stays up and he keeps going in the right direction. Um you know, and that man, that kind of gut punches you when you think about like someone that could that missed the sale potentially, or missed making it to the other side because they got a bad look in the sieve pin. Because honestly, I think the sieve pin's probably one of the hardest places it is the hardest place to show, but it's also one where two whips could be used the most, I think, to get the best first two or three steps.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Right. No, and I think that's the you know, I I think there's a lot of validity to the uh that's the best way, you know, it's more of a training, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And as a general rule, I I don't know how many I d I I should have looked this number up. I don't know how many kids showed at San Antonio and the Barrow Show or the Guilt Show or anywhere else for that matter. But the overwhelming percentage showed with one whip. Yep. And so you know, our our our kids showed with one whip and one show stick and one halter. Uh but no different the the thing that I kept thinking about as we kind of kept talking about this was um yes, if you asked me what is my preference, well yeah, one one whip is my pre no doubt my preference. But kind of like you said, my my number one preference is that the pig the pigs presented to the absolute you know, we just did the layover deal and you know we talked a lot about just all the little things that go into it. And so no different than anything else, some of them just they just did better that way.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

So Well, and I think there's a couple different reasons. Um I presented a a view on a post that um you know, younger, inexperienced showmen need two whips sometimes to keep the bear going straight or the guilt going straight.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Um I would say at our show pig camps, that's the number one thing that we run into is that kids have a hard time um when they're first starting out, being able to get those pigs driven in a straight line and their head not going back and forth, which results in everything else in their body going back and forth and not looking smooth um when they only have one whip. Part of that goes into training that pig. That's a whole nother topic of the pig getting trained to go straight with the whip on one side of their head. And we'll talk about that in the sif about the sift pin some here in a minute. Um, so that's one reason. Maybe the kid hasn't, you know, shown enough to get to that point. Secondly, are the pigs. I mean, there's just some hard-headed, you know, knot heads that we all show. Um, I wasn't in the first round with you guys when Trevor decided to show with two whips. He obviously has the experience, but undoubtedly y'all thought that bear I looked did better with two whips. I mean, maybe not kicking his face like he did in the ring.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Well, yeah. Well, there's you know, there's things you have to overcome. But yeah, no, it was that way. And and there was another way in the first round that we adjusted to that at layover, if you haven't checked out that episode, um and drove him with two whips and things just got better. That pig just danced the whole time. I mean, he had his head up and was going the right direction and all that. He just and so we added that, everything got right, and then honestly, that was still the plan. And we came off the wash rack like two hours before that pig showed, and showman just had one whip in her hand for whatever she'd forgot the other however it was, you know how showday gets hectic. And everything looked right. And I said, we we can roll like that, which they were excited about because that was their preference. Um, but so again, it's just like we talk about and everything else. I I think of the two-whip thing, personally, um as no different than if there's forty-seven types of whips for sale at Show Splits, some of them shorter, longer, so on and so forth. There's you know, we've evolved from I mean, we used to show with purple Mormon showtake pipes. Somebody showed with a whip the first time. It evolved from that. We've you know, we've shown now some kids, you know, Camlet shows with a brush. And I used to be a brush hater. A lot of kids do that. And you know, a a lot of the times the reason that is is helping the posture of the kid more than how they're actually driving the pig. So I guess when I I look at Sean with two whips or you know, uh I I don't know, the young lady had the reserve, I think reserve blue at I think it was a young lady, at Angelo, you know, the back the internet pictures, you know, she's got two pegs pipes. Apparently it worked out all right. Um I have issues with it. I'm judging. Show them how they look the best. Now, no different than show a tire or this, that, and the other. There's things that can definitely be unattractive and draw attention away. And if you're that person that thinks two whips is that way, you completely have that right to have that opinion. And I respect your opinion. I just disagree most of the time.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

Most of the time for me, for whether in the ring judging or ringside watching, it I don't notice if they have one or two whips because if it's smooth in the way a showman should be, anyways, you you don't you don't pick up on that because you're just you're no, it's much more distracting when their head is going up and down, or it's a little kid and they're having to run around both sides trying to turn them or get their head up or get them going. That's much more distracting to me than having two whips and the bear's going at the right pace with his head up.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Sure. Um, so I I just you know the things that bottom line goal is as a showman, you want to maximize your pig to look the best and really you to be it all be one flowing picture. Right. Not distracting pictures. So if if you can't do that with two whips, don't do it. If you can and you need to, do it.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Well, that's the other thing that we talked about. It's not like you just give a kid two whips and they and it looks right.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Most of the time it's locked it up.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

It it is it is a little bit of a skill set or whatever to get to the point where you can show right with two whips. Because at first, I mean, you know, they're kind of both hitting at different times and it looks awkward, and it looks like me probably trying to, you know, dribble a basketball. Um you got to practice with two whips. Um, just as much as you do with one for it to look right. Um, so you know, that's another thing. And like Josh said, no, you don't ever want it to be distracting. I mentioned that I used to, I was a brush hater, you know, 15 years ago. I didn't like it when kids showed with brushes because it was like a nervous tick, and every time they would get nervous and they would start hitting their pig typically on the hip, it would make their tail go down opposite of what we're trying to do, you know, and now Camlin makes brushes. So um things change, things evolve. I remember Kelton telling the story when he won the crosses his first year at Houston, and he showed with a brush and no whip, just a brush. And between the cheap and cross drive and the grand drive, Dirk Aaron handed him a whip.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

You know, so uh things change, things evolve. I remember the first time we went to Louisville, Kelton and I were the only two kids that showed with whips. Everybody else had canes and those sorting things. End of the story, we want kids to have a good experience. That's and we want the pigs to listen to that.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

That's the thing is that that um I I I I completely get the passion and the uh the thoughts and the opinions, and and this is an opinion-based industry, right? I mean, if everybody liked the exact same thing the exact same way, it would get pretty boring after a while. So there's there's that, and you know, the the whole point of us saying that is that uh presenting those type of things, and I can be as guilty of this as anybody, but in a positive light that that is encouraging, that is yeah, you know, moving the ball forward, um it's you know a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

So well, and I think one thing, you know, that and and Todd Byers and I talked about this because his son showed with two whips at San Antonio, got his poll and presented great. Um we have bigger hurdles when it comes to showmanship right now than two whips.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Um, you know, we have kids that need a lot more help and and and things that are probably a little bit more important than two whips. So that's what we're gonna talk about today. If you're done, are you do you have any more thoughts on the two whips before we go to the SIF pin?

SPEAKER_01 13:00

I have no more thoughts. I th if yeah, one whip, two whips. I I I did think one comment I saw was uh I thought was funny. I think it was Scott Smith that made it, but it was it was really funny that he saw an even more legitimate reason to show with two whips was that the young boy or girl, I can't remember, broke one of her whips in one of the gates and needed the second one. I thought that was pretty funny. He might have made it up out of thin air and it just been something that was that made me laugh, but I I I thought it was great.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Well, you know, the other thing, this is one last thing. Um, we sell literally hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars worth of baby pigs every fall, and almost every breeder is using two whips.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

No, and I So if we can use two whips to generate that, I mean, what is wrong with a kid using two whips to try to make the sale?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

It's good for the economy. I mean, you sell two whips at the show spot trailer, sit on one no, anyways. Yeah, that all all of those things are right. And I think the the bottom line, and then we'll move on to Sift Pen, um, is uh, like we said, like there's a lot of ways to get the right the right response, the right product, the right whatever. Um so just kind of always keep that in mind. And and again, your opinion is is well respected and r rightfully so. And if uh if you showing with two whips and whoever's judging in the first class says I really don't like that, I'd go in there with one whip. Yep. Um so you know, kind of keep all those things in mind and that, and and that's no different than any other way that we do this uh when it comes to showmanship. You you watch guys that want them to go a little faster and off their head a little more, and some guys vice versa. So all those adjustments still fit right in. And uh, like I said, my last my last two rows is I preference number one, one whip. Yeah, two whips, five and me too.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

So probably so the the part the main part of this segment that we want to um go over with you guys is the SIF pin. Um if you do not show in Texas, you might not know what I'm talking about there. And I hope that Josh can figure out how to, with all his IT skills, put a video in from the San Antonio SIF PIN.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

When when Josh is the IT person, somehow he is in this instance. That is that is a scary thought. But we're gonna give it a go. So right now, here in a minute, there should be something coming up on your screen in the edit.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

But so in Texas, since we have so many bears shown, um, we have a sift pen where you um and we have two judges now, so you're gonna go through in the video that you'll see, you'll see uh Chad Day and the first sift pen. Um this is uh Camlin's bear that she showed at San Antonio and so um she showed to Chad first, and then if you if Chad likes your bear or the first judge likes your bear, he goes to the uh to weigh to the classifying pin and then to the the um placing pins on the other side. Um if the first judge doesn't, you know, not sure about your pig, then you'll go to the second pin where Nick Hoffschulte, you'll see him standing. He looks at your pig, you either go straight to the truck or he puts you in the Dead Sea. Um so, you know, we talk a lot about getting a great first impression, and in Texas, it's pretty much do or die in the first three to five seconds. Um, your entire show season comes down to getting a really good first impression. And so we really um hit home at this at our camps. Uh we have a sift pen back here. We're we're sitting in the ring at our camp barn. Uh, we have a sift pin in the back uh behind that announcer stand, and we will spend an entire session going through just the sift pin with those kids. A couple things to think about. I think you're you're gonna set your your kids up for failure if the first time they go through the sift pen is at San Antonio or at Fort Worth or Dallas or wherever.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Right. Or you you know, there's lots of counties that still do it that way.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

Yeah, our county has a sift pen on the bigger breeds. Um, and so they need to practice that at home. Uh before Caden's first year at Dallas, Kelton set up a sift pin at his house. Uh he was going to show a bear here from for at San Anton. Uh Josh built a sift pin as close as we could make it to the sift pins at those shows, just with, you know, panels, nothing elaborate. Um, and he would take those bears through those sift pins every day. That way, when he got to the show, that was not the first time he did it.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Um I think that's one of that's one of the biggest things we we talk about at the camps, and like Carrie said we make a whole whole session over it, but is the going through it like that, whether it's your county or Fort Worth, San Antonio, Houston, wherever, that doesn't need to be the first time that happens. It needs to be automatic. So, you know, no different than than any other part we talked about last week, uh, situations and and that and the other. This is a situation that if you've been there before, uh if you haven't in this day in time, you can probably pull up the video. Like you you can you can get it down to the exact and and make your so so then again, whether it's young kids or a senior, it's not the pigs first time, it's not the kids' first time. It's it's automatic. Because like Carrie said, that is that is the first impression. That is, you know, make or break on everything, really. Uh I I'll say it's very hard to win, it's very hard to make the sale, it's very hard to get a ribbon, uh, very hard to get across if that first three steps is not perfect, it's not right. Uh, regardless of how good, bad your animal is, you just you automatically, we talk about this at the camps, uh, you you put yourself in a category. Like if I'm judging, like I'm looking for the next I'm looking for the one that wins the show. Every time the gate opens, that one comes through. Uh some guys are, you know, maybe looking for like what I need to do, where's the problems where I I'm looking for the next hammer to come through. And every time, at least at this point in my life, when he comes through, that first look is there he is. Yep. So that that's what you want to set up and that's what you want it to be. And so the only way to do that, no different than football players practice, the only way to run that play perfectly uh is to nail it out over the entire time you have a show pick. So what that looks like at your show, uh, you know, if if you don't have a sift pin, you still have that instance. You know what gate you're coming out of, where you're where you're gonna be, what the ring is, so make that your your uh your practice spot. But uh yeah, those situations that makes all the difference because then when it comes down, nerves are a little high, it's again, it's automatic. It's it's there, gates open the same way we've done it every day for the last three months.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Yeah, and I think we get um guilty of practicing different views at home or you know, judge getting in behind you at home or doing whatever. You practice that, but you don't a lot of people don't think about practicing the sift pen. And and none of that other matters if you don't get a good look in the sift pen. Um so with that said, we think it starts with practicing at home. Um when you get to the show, um, unless you're in the lightweight Berkshires at San Antonio or the lightweight hamps, unless you're in the first class of the day, you've got to watch. Yeah, the first class of the show, you've got to watch. If there's one piece of advice that I think um, and not that anybody wants advice from us, but if there's one thing I think people need to hear is you need to watch the show more. Um, and not just the the the side brother's showing, but the sift pin. Um, I try to take any of the new kids that we have um that haven't done it before, take them up there, um, you know, kind of show them how how it's ran. You need to know where the judge stands. You need to know, does he move around, you know, so that you're on the right side and and all the things. You need to know who the judge is. I mean, bless their hearts. There's kids that you can tell go in the sift pen and they don't know who they're showing to, and it's because they haven't watched. Right. Um, my kids personally, they like to um to walk through the sift pen the night before. Um, I know Caden, you know, thankfully he um he only gets to show at Houston, but still he wants he wants to go to the sift pen and he wants to walk through his plan. Um I'll never forget that night before he won San Anton. You know, Daddy, we gotta go to the sift pen. We gotta we gotta walk through it. Camlin, same way. They want to um she doesn't really as much walk through it right now as she does. She wants to go look at it and she wants to think in her head, okay, I'm gonna stop his nose here in the alleyway because she talks about that that sift pen at San Antonio is the hardest to be you have to make that curve, that turn coming out. Um, and so that that kind of gave her she was worried about. That this year for some reason, and then she handled it great. But you know, you want to hold those bears back just a little bit where their nose is not at that gate, um, to where you can have at least a step or two um to hit them on the side with your whip, get them going, grab their head, um, you know, all the things. And so that night before we went up there, she thought about it in her head, you know, I'm gonna kind of hold him back here, I'm gonna get him going here. Um, and so I hope, like we talked about, that Josh can share that um that video of her because it it's it's really awesome. Um of the things that I want you, and and I'll just kind of act like we have this video up. Um she was there's a she's the second one to come in. This is the first kid. Um but some of the things that we want to teach these kids is that uh distance is one of the most important things. Um they come in too close. And so um you'll see like Chad is up against that back rail, trying to get as much of a side view as he can because that pin's not real wide. And so um distance is one of the biggest things that we talk about. Uh distance from the judge, speed, you know, not too fast, not too slow, and not a stop and go, but a consistent, good speed. Um, and then the whip on the correct side of their head. So back to that video. Um, this first boy comes out, um, does a pretty good job. I don't know who this is, so I don't want to make a ton of comments on it, but um, you know, did a pretty did a pretty good job, could maybe could maybe go a tick faster. Um, but distance is really good. You know, he kind of starts to veer off a little bit because he's going back and forth on that bear's head. Here comes Cam. Um, I think she did a great job. You'll see her whip stays in between the pig and the judge. That keeps him um from veering off closer to where Chad was. Um, so if we replay that again real quick, um you can I want all the kids, if your kid is watching, I want them to see um that she keeps her whip in between the pig and the judge to keep him going straight to where he doesn't veer too close to Chad. At the end, this is kind of cool. She picks up on the fact that Nick is looking at Herbert, switches sides, shows to him, acknowledges him, like actually gives him eye contact. Um I thought that was pretty neat. That that's kind of a whole, you know, that that's a higher level type thing. And we didn't talk to her about that. Um she just recognized it. Um, so I thought that was cool that she did that, something to think about in this two-judge system that we have in Texas, um, where you can do that. But back to kind of the things that we were talking about, um, having a plan, uh knowing that your distance needs to be right, having your body right. A lot of kids, when they come to our camp, they either don't have their body on the right side to begin with, or they don't leave enough room for their body, and then they end up between the pig and the panel, and then they're behind the pig, and you know, that doesn't really work. Um, so getting that distance between the judge and you is really important. Um, I I thought Cam's speed was really good with that bear. That goes down to your that's pig's specific also. Uh, she showed a bear um about three years ago at San Antonio that couldn't go too fast or he looks choppy. So, and we show that video at our camp and go through that with kids. Um, but have your speed right. Uh, make sure the whip is on the correct side of their head to keep them going, you know, not towards the judge, to kind of keep them going as straight as you can. Um, and then the other mistake that a lot of kids make is they'll get to the end of that sift pin, and if the judge hasn't told them what to do yet, they'll just kind of stop and look at him.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Right. Like it's kind of frees up like what what do you want me to do?

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Yeah, what do I do now? Well, in the meantime, their bear's head is in the dirt and he doesn't look real good. So when you get to the end of that pen, if he hasn't made up his mind, get him turned around and even bear down harder.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

I was like saying, no, that that's the other thing we talk about a lot at the camps, is is that if you've gotten that far to that point whoever he she's judging is in their mind like contemplating it, uh if you flip that thing around and give one more good look, you're going across most of the time. Mo most of the time. Because if they're thinking about it that far, uh give them the give them the nod the way you present them to to go go the right way. If you hang out there like I have no idea what I'm doing, that gives another vibe and it makes it harder to crawl out of. So now, uh like Carrie said, it uh there's lots of instances you can talk about that, but uh when you were talking about Kim and she she picked up that Nick was just looking from the other side and and kind of keyed in and then showed him a little bit as Chad's already going to the next one. Uh uh you know, it just made me think about whatever year it was that Cole Phillips won Angelo. Yep. Uh and Corb was judging. I had no affiliations with any of the pig, the kid, or anything, but just sitting there watching, I don't know if we had other pigs in that class or what, but uh Cole was late, he was one of the last ones to get up to the holding pin, and the way Angelo was set up, at least then, you come across right behind the sift sift area and then go through the holding pins, all that, and come back through. And and David, whether he'd just caught him right, however, but Cole's keyed up watching uh this is back when Cole was a young, handsome young man, not the bearded older fellow that he is now. But um and and I still say it to this day, he won the pick show before he ever actually got into the ring because he's keyed up showing to the man that's about to see the pig, he sees the pig 20 pigs before it comes through, and I think David maybe even mentioned it, but he's the last pig that comes through. He's already seen him, got a great first look from the back, not even through the sift. So you always got to be keyed up uh depending on your ring setting and that. And and like again, his first impression actually was before they ever opened, before he ever actually entered the holding pen. So, but he was keyed up and ready. Uh that th those kind of things matter, and and so again, and it just affirms kid to judge of like this kid came to try to win the pick show. Yeah, those things all all fit together. It's it's one big package, kind of like we talked about in the two-whip. It's one package that you see. So Cole did win that show with one whip, best I recall.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

But uh Well, and especially like at San Anton, um, it's real easy for those guys before the class starts or whatever, those those um holding pins are on each side of them. I mean, anybody's gonna kind of look around at the pig. So if you're a a pretty experienced showman, you need to be keyed up on the fact. I know a couple years ago that happened, I think, with Polish, and Cam had hers kind of set up.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Right. And no, and it's it's it's one of those things that uh again, you sit there uh as I'm judging, I I I'm wanting to I'm you you're wanting to find the ones that you want to like and use. Like you you're looking for them at all times. It's like I say, every time the gate opens, you're looking for your grand. And when you find them, if you know what you're looking at, like you get excited about it. And so uh again, those things, like you said, can happen before the first gate ever opens. Um you you can put yourself at least in the consideration of, hey, I'm ready for that one to get on over here while I can really get a good look at it.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Yeah. So no, and I think Michael Schertz, um, I know he's a cattle guy and this is a pig podcast, but what he said, he um made a post, I don't even remember, it wasn't on his page, it's another kind of educational Facebook page, but um it was a video of him talking about a kid in the ring making a it's not just making eye contact, I'm trying to think of the word that he used. Um but like making a connection, I think is what he said, with the guy judging um by your ring posture, by how aggressive you are. Um you know, you make that connection where you look like the whole package to win. Um and that starts in the sift pen. That's not just in the big ring. Um, I thought it was pretty neat, and y'all are probably gonna get tired of hearing about Camlin, but it it's our podcast, we can brag on her just a little bit. Um another kid at San Antonio said something about her having an aura in the ring. And I thought that was a neat way to describe like ring presence.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

Um, and and like Josh said, that starts before you ever get in the sift pen. You've got to be keyed up and kind of see, you know, who's looking, um, you know, and what's around you. I always talk at our camps about there's kind of like I think in my mind of three tiers of showmen. There's the beginner that needs to get the basics of like how to hold my whip, where my body needs to be, how to turn, you know, the just the fundamentals. And we all start there. Then there's the showman that gets all the basics down. Okay, let's start talking about views, what's good about my pig, what's bad about my pig, how do I present those? You're not ever going to hide anything, um, but how do I present those to make my pig look the best? Then the the highest tier is the kid, and and this is where we've tried to get our kids. Um, and the back and the sift pin, they're going, I want to follow that one, or I don't want to follow that one. They're in the ring and evaluating the bears they're showing against and saying, okay, mine's bigger backed than this one. I'm gonna show that. Mine maybe not, you know, as good here, so I'm not I'm gonna uh get away from them in that aspect. Um, they are evaluating what they're showing with to figure out how to show their strengths against maybe another one's weakness. Um, some people might call that too aggressive. I think it's incredible and I love it. Um that that's just kind of part, you know, right part of it.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

No, and I think all that you know, you said you brag on Camlin and that, but the the the reason there's a lot of reasons that that's she's gotten to that level and that many that we could list, uh kids that we help and kids that we don't that other people help or other other kids across the state and the country. Um, but I think a lot of that ties back to what you said earlier of of watching the show more. One hundred percent. And uh I could go on around, but now we have a lot of young kids this time, and there are kids, some in our group, some in other people's groups, that when they're going to the we're gonna go sit down and like, I want you to watch this. And we're not gonna say just watch it and see. We're gonna talk about this is what she or he does this way and that way, and and uh Camlin still does that. Now she's getting old enough to where she can do it even on her own. She'll sit up and watch and pick up things from other kids that she knows um or are right there where she wants to be and then and kind of implement those type of deals. So um all of that, none of that comes from only working at the house. It's obviously a large part of it, but sitting there and watching those those uh young men and young women that just put on a clinic. Yeah. And there's a lot of them in Texas, there's a lot of them in Oklahoma, there's a lot of them in Indiana, I wouldn't, and all across the country, West Coast, East Coast. Um so if you're sitting there watching, and they're easy to find too, usually. It watch for the top five to come back out, and you usually can find them right there. Yeah. More times than not, because regardless, sometimes they'll have better pigs, and sometimes their pigs won't be as good as they hope, but they put themselves in the position to win because they again they have that package and they get the absolute most out of their animals. So I mean, no doubt that our kids and many others from watching other ones and learning from them, um, you know, that's again, we try to get some of our very best showmen to come help us at the camps again for those reasons because uh you can Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

So well, and in today's time, you know, it used to be just watching the show, which I think you know, I guess my parents just drilled that into me that like if you're not showing, you need to be in the stands watching. I mean that that that was just the rule basically with us. Um but Josh brought up such a good point earlier that you can go back and watch the shows now. Um, you know, my parents were not those kind that like I don't even know how you would have videoed when I showed. You didn't have cell phones that had cameras. Anyway, Jane was not back in a camcorder. Um but nowadays, you know, after Cam showed at San Antonio, she went back, she watched her class, she thought maybe I needed to do this a little bit different, I need to adjust this. Um, man, that's such a big advantage.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

100%.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

Um, that you could because I'm I'm not the mom that's gonna video the class right now. That that would probably not be good for any of us of us. Um, but you can go back on Taylor Ford or Walton or whatever and watch those classes.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Right. No, and like this time at at Fort Worth, young young showman and uh was doing something that's like we've we've gotta nail this out and get this little nervous twitch out of the way. So I had Camlin grab her phone real quick and video her. Yeah. And so we can sit down, not when we're coming out of the gate and say, Why'd you do this? What have you a good job at your first show, then you get home and you think, all right, now let's sit down and watch this. Now why did we do this? Usually that kids have absolutely no idea why I did that. I know you were nervous, but this is so and then that's etched in their mind of of Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. You know, I I have a a very visual memory, so like things like that come back, you know. Anyway, kids are all different. But it's after the fact. It's just like again, sports analogies, going back, watching the tape. Okay, where did we do this? Why did we do that? How do we fix that for the next time? So picture one's the same way. And like Gary said, you don't even really have to video them yourself anymore because most every show is on the internet somewhere and accessible in some way. So and in high quality.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

And one of the things that we do at our camp is um we will show a film from San Antonio, we'll go through the sift pen and we'll just talk about okay, what what needs to be different here? What did this kid do good? What could we do better? Then we go through a class, same thing, you know, what what what's good, what's bad. You can do that as a family, you know, you don't have to wait till you get to Houston to do that. Um, I think it's very beneficial to do it at the show because you can say, okay, he is standing here 90% of the time.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

So how do you need to come out of those placing pins? How do you need to, you know, show this, show that? Um it's just I can't over-emphasize enough how important it is to watch the show.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

No doubt about it.

unknown 36:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

No doubt about it.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Anything else on the sift pen that we're forgetting?

SPEAKER_01 36:44

No, I mean I think you know, uh we'll do other podcasts on on showmanship, I'm sure. But um yeah, just like I said, figure out what it's gonna look like, rough size, build it to the best of your ability, go through it multiple times to where again it's just automatic.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

That's that'd be the biggest thing I could that and then once you have the basics down, you can change things in the sift pin just like you would um in the big ring, as far as um like there's a bear I'm thinking about in particular, not one of ours, it was another kid's. Um, and that exhibitor brought that bear in closer to the judge than I would probably tell most people was ideal because that bearer didn't balance great, but he had a big back. And so it was like, okay, he comes in, he's being shown very highly, he's got a big back, he's high quality. His that judge's first impression isn't gonna be eh, he kind of runs downhill and is bigger headed and not the most attractive, you know. So um, once you get the basics down, then you can kind of start to adjust some things like that in the sift bin for sure.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

No, no, I mean uh again, your your job is a as a showman, and was a showman, the whole package, family and all, your your job is to get that thing presented to the absolute knots. I mean to the hilt. So um the more you can show strengths and minimize showing weaknesses, the the better it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

So I'll put you on the spot here. Um well I'm trying to think maybe all those Midwest State fairs, they don't have a sift pen. But is there is there something that you can think of when you're judging that first impression part when they open the gate? Is there like something you love or something you hate?

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Um absolute hate is if they come out dry. Like no water, no, you know different shows have different rules, but I've never been the one that you can't put water on them, so they can at least have that. Uh if they come out dry, that that to me as a judge is just your first instinct of what we talk about the whole package of making a connection. If they come out dry, I can I can't think of a reason that that's a good idea. So that's that's a first instinct of all right. The the baseline is that that they don't look as fresh as the rest of them, but the second is we're missing something. So it's coming out dry would be probably the first thing that comes to to mind is like I don't want to use the word turn-off, but a little bit as good a way as I could put it. Um, you know, we we even wet them down and we're looking at them in the back to get them ready because I want to see what they look like when they come into the ring. Uh the other side probably the same of just the total package. Everything is smooth. Yeah, I tell that to the kids a lot that different pigs, some come out running is better, not necessarily running, but yeah, but at a very, very good pace, some coming out at just a very comfortable pace. I mean, we we talked about that not long ago. If different pigs have different speeds where it just it looks comfortable and it looks natural, not even just how they move their feet, just their presence about some of them at a slower just that pre- I don't know. Um but you can always get that feel. Like I I don't even have to break down pig for pig. We come out smooth with that presence, again, one package aura of the pig, kid, skin and hair is on point, there's not a hair out of place, there's not a dry spot on them from the tip of their nose to the tip of their tail. They're not stained, their black's black, white's white.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

Naturally.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Naturally. Not yeah, cosmetic. Well, anyways. Kids dressed appropriately. Everything fits. Um I mean that's what like I said, when I'm judging, I'm looking for the grand to come out every time. And I'm excited when one that comes out, hey, this is kind of the direction we're wanting to go. And obviously phenotype of the pig matters the most of that, but the whole package all comes together. So that's a long way of saying just come out looking like you came to win the show.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

Yeah, yeah. And I think one thing to just add on this, and this could probably be a whole nother um episode, but um Josh mentioned comfort and the pigs being comfortable. And there are kids, I think, that make animals, they make livestock comfortable. Um, and that's just a natural thing. Um I would say, you know, if your kid is starting out, um the dreaded word jackpot show is um It's not dreaded.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

I mean maybe for some people it is, but some people it is.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

You don't like jackpot shows.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Well, I've I used to.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Yeah, yeah. Um, but my point is that to get comfortable in the ring, which in turn is gonna make your animal more comfortable, because Billy always taught me if I'm nervous, it goes through the halter to the steer, I believe it with a pig. If you're nervous, it goes through the whip to the pig. Um, the only way to get the kid more comfortable, make your livestock look better and more comfortable, is to just haul their little tails off to jackpot shows. Um, we had to do that with with Caden, probably more than Cam. Um, Caden was more natural with cattle, Cam was more natural with pigs. So uh we took Caden to a lot of jackpot shows, and it just like finally one day the light bulb came on.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I think it's that way. Uh he was definitely that way, but uh most kids I can't think of there there's some that you saw the gradual and there there's gradual through there, but it's like well, most people wouldn't know this about me, but I was high school quarterback and we did the reader, we ran read option. I mean, that was just that was our offense. And man, I was bad at it. And then just one day it's like, oh, this is how you do that. And then I'm not even saying that I was good at it, but it clicked and I understood like the process, and it's just it wasn't like uh it's like why didn't I know this yesterday? And I I think more times than not on the show and deal, it's that it's just that continuing on and on and on, and then it's like, oh, where'd where did that kid come from? Yeah, you know, so but again, how many times did it take to get to that point? And then and then you're just honing your craft from there. But yeah. And it's fun to watch it when it clicks, regardless if it's your kid or another kid that you're helping. Uh it's fun when it's like, boom, there it is. And you can see it too, like before they you know, there's some kids we've had over the years that I can tell the morning we get to the show before they've even called the first class, like I know if they're on or off before they ever got their pig out of the pen that day. And uh it's fun when you when you know like, okay, they're gonna handle it today. And it's frustrating when you think it's not it's not gonna be just perfect today for whatever reason. But they're kids, we all have those same days as adults. Some days I'm I'm on, some days I'm off.

SPEAKER_03 43:32

So You have off days?

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Yes, more than most, probably. I'll say it now for all the world to hear. Thank you very much. There'll be some mamas on here that are smiling and laughing while they listen to this. But hopefully I don't have any off days here soon.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

But Yeah, no, no, we need you a hundred percent for the next two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Regardless. We're coming up on time. Yep. Anything else?

SPEAKER_03 43:56

Yeah, if you have a question about the sift pen, um

SPEAKER_01 44:00

I mean just choose the text or our cell phones are easily accessible. Uh I almost said the one truthpodcast at gmail.com. Our email is showpigcentral at gmail.com. You can email the one truthpodcast at gmail.com. I'll I'll I'll get that one too. Uh for those of you who have emailed recently, I didn't realize that those notifications weren't showing up and that I hadn't checked that in a minute, so I'm getting back to you very quickly. Uh apologize for the delay on the questions that you did ask. I somehow missed a few emails, but uh again, off day sometimes. So uh with that, yeah, prayer requests. Again, we don't say that lightly. Uh more than we take that very seriously. And any any and all questions. So same as always, if you if you've made it this far, we would really appreciate it if you would go and follow. Subscribe to the UP YouTube channel, like etc. etc. There's gonna be some neat things coming in the future. Um, I don't know if I would say near future, but in the future uh that that we'll utilize that YouTube channel for that you want to be subscribed and notified and all that to not miss it. So um with that, thanks for tuning in. Short quick central.