Lost Our Way? The Purpose of Showpigs - Part 2

A 2 part series discussing a basic principle question - WHY? This began from a listener request, and kind of took off from there to another level. In this episode we explore the purpose of and for purpose-driven selection in the show pig industry, addressing questions about industry standards, genetic diversity, and the balance between function and appearance. Hosts Josh  and Carrie Brockman discuss industry evolution, judging criteria, and the importance of purpose in breeding and showing pigs, and what the vibrant showpig industry has become and their thoughts on it. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

So, I mean, yes, show pics are expensive. I'm not, you know, and that has been a generational debate. I remember when the first show steer brought 30,000 and people were just like, oh my goodness. Here's the deal. In life, when you're an adult, there's gonna be people that can spend whatever they want to spend on whatever they want to. Part of it is you figuring out what you can spend and making that work.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

I I I I love that part of it. I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

This episode that we've kind of started there, of uh why and what's the purpose of uh Showpicks? What uh why do they look like they look? What's the purpose of them looking that way? What's the differences? Where do you draw the lines? Um a lot of that are the questions that we answered last time in the first part of this uh this two-part little series here um of uh of why. It's kind of always coming around, it's kind of like a little kid. Well, why? Why do I need to do that? Because you need to do this. Well, why? And so you can kind of take that a long ways down, but if you haven't um if you haven't listened to the first part of this, I would I would highly encourage it. It'll make a lot more sense when you get to hear um, maybe uh if you go back and hear that first, because this is kind of a we're gonna jump in right in the middle of uh what we thought we were gonna do in one episode. So if you have you've never followed us or listened to us before, I'm Josh Brockman. This is my wife Carrie. If you're uh as always listening to this on Spotify or Apple or anywhere else, if you would rather watch the podcast uh for now, that's only on our YouTube channel. So go and uh subscribe to that, check that out, and see uh hopefully by this point uh there'll be some comments on the last last uh episode of the video.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Yeah, I told you you might regret asking for comments.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

We'll we'll know by the time this is if somebody's listening to this, they will have already been able to find out that I have no idea. So um, anyways, yeah, welcome back. It's been a few minutes for us, a couple of weeks for you, but uh we're glad to be back with you and we're glad that you found us again. Thanks as always uh for uh tuning in, checking it out. And um, like we said in the last episode, this has been a response. It's kind of expounded further than the original question was uh of a video request or episode request. Um but if there's something you'd like to uh to have us cover or that would be interesting to you, you think would make a neat episode, uh we would love for you to uh send us that in an email, showquickcentral at gmail.com, text one of us. Our phone numbers are pretty readily available on the internet or uh shoot us a Facebook message. However, if there's something you'd like, uh it makes it uh makes it fun for us to know we're we're putting stuff out that y'all um enjoy and uh hopefully it makes it where it's something you can you can pick up on and learn too. So uh where we left off last time was um kind of again in that it was talking about physical traits and and again all under the under the discussion point of why do we make chill picks.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Yeah, and we and we rambled for quite a bit, honestly. And you're just worried about us, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Yeah, I was worried about us rambling. I wasn't worried about it.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Um but basically we talked about why they need to be unique. You know, there has to be differences, it's a person's opinion. Um you have to they have to be able to set themselves apart. Um, you know, the physical traits, we talked about muscle. Uh, you talked about maturity pattern, which I thought was a really good point. It's like you don't just like freaky long-necked ones. I mean, it it kind of goes with the maturity pattern and the importance of that. Um and and we're not gonna break down every trait. Like, like I said, I mean, I thought we kind of rambled.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Start at their left front toe.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

I thought we rambled about that a little bit too much, but just to kind of uh summarize and conclude this, um, hair and bone was the last one. Like, why do they need to be big legged and why do they need to be hairy? When I showed pigs, um, they had no hair. Uh, you didn't want them to be hairy, they were actually very thin haired, and then we clipped most of it off.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Right. Well, and that that again, that there's a lot of so what where's the umbrella fall and why has that changed and where's the difference? Well, if you think about wanting them and even clipping them as short as you possibly can, it all tied because we wanted them to look hard.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

We wanted them to be as lean as possible, which tied to the yeah, and and guess what? Then we ran into issues because we got them too lean, the bellies were too lean, and we didn't have thick enough bellies to even make have bacon, that was acceptable. And we ran into PSE and and all kinds of issues. So, you know. Um and Packers started complaining to the shows, we can't get all the hair off these carcasses because it's cut so short that it doesn't work in our process. So, you know, I don't today with hairy pigs, show pigs, I don't really know how that's a haird shows. I have hairy pig shows.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

We have haired pig shows in Texas. So it's like shears to uh shear shows, haired pig shows.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Um I don't know what that looks like today for for uh processors, you know, on on pigs that do have more hair. Um hair and bone, i it's one of those things that um that's the trend. Love it or hate it, do it or get it.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Well, even even tape tape bone to an extent. So again, we're talking about uh underlying uh the question of why, right? Well, yeah, the the things that are running around, and I say things, zoo animal looking things that are running around now, that that's an extreme, but it's still from a principle of that heavy duty animals fun uh more functional than a frail one. In a sense.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

Sure, I'm sure somebody will disagree with you. I agree with you. I'm just saying I'm sure somebody's gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

I'm reaching a little bit, but bigger feet hold up better than small feet.

unknown 6:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

That's a fact. Cattle running in the feed yard, pig running on slides, pig running in the pasture. You know. Now, deer get along pretty good and they got little feet. Well, that I was gonna say, but they're not very big either. Um, but irregardless, right? You you're still building upon that principle. Yes, the extremes are the extremes, but again, back to the same thing. Like that's what makes makes at least this industry, the world go around, and we're gonna get to it now of of uh, or maybe not now, but in this episode, this second part of really where the lines can be drawn. That's kind of where we left off last time of sitting out in the ring, giving visual appraisal. If if I'm judging, I I'm giving everything in that ring, like how loose they are, what their joint angles are, so on and so forth. If their feet are flat and they're sore, if their feet are flat and they're running around, they're fine. There's all these judgment calls. And and again, the the things that I would tell you, and I see this all the time and it annoys me, but it's not it's not gonna fit my principle here, but is these young dumb kids running around and they want them to look like this and that and the other at this jackpot. And you know what? If you're listening and you've said that, just like I was, we've all were young dumb kids at one point or another.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

You're aging yourself.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

It just it just happens. I I still I'm 30. What are they saying? What do you what are you I I'm I'm Well, when you when you see again on on social media.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

That's that's not nice.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

I call myself dumb.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Dumb in the loosest sense of not as wise as an elderly person. Proverbs speaks of that scripture. Gray hair, sign of wisdom. It's biblical. What can I tell you? But I guess what I'm getting at is you you you see, or I don't see any really anymore, but on Facebook and in the comments of these young, I won't say dumb.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Uneducated. Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Well, I don't even say just say young, young, hot shot kids that are out there using these weird terms to talk about long necks and couldn't care less about this and that, and and so on and so forth. And you know what? A lot of them are gonna get uh some of them, yeah, they they don't know why that, but that's what they like and it's what they're doing, and they agree to go judge the show, and that's just a part of it. Yep. But if if you look, especially at like national shows, and there's people that that do this too, but if you get a guy that sets out there, let's just say um Shane Brenning, Ben Boble, Mark Oak, Brian Arnold, the list goes on, but those four came to mind. They're going back to Glenn Martin. We talked about him in the last episode. To what works for them. And and so let I I'll I'll I won't speak for any of those guys what they like and dislike. I think when they judge they do that well enough, but I'll I'll speak for what what happens to me. If I'm sitting out there, flat feet don't bother me that much. If they're limping, they bother me. But there's the the reason that they don't, if they're unattractive, they bother me.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

If they're a little soft-footed, and there's people that if they're a little soft-footed, they're completely hammer them.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. That goes back to the opinion thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Most of those guys, I know like I'm not going to show this pig to them because it's kind of like I'm not going to take a bad test from the David Corp, because I know he's going to double gate him before the rest of his body even gets out. And that's fine. I just the guy knows what he likes. But flat my point being, softer pastoral ones don't bother me because they work here. We've been able to make them work. If if we ran into a lot of issues due to that, like sows can't get up and down, boars, this, that, and the other. Well, naturally, that that would drive me to having a now again, is it ideal? No. But there's not an ideal one that walks through the gate in any show ring. So you're again, you're drawing lines where you have to.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Yeah, and everybody's gonna have a line of acceptability.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Everybody's gonna have a line of acceptability on every trait and on the negative side, and they're gonna have a an extreme side on the other one. It's kind of like muscle. Like there's there's a a bottom line of acceptability and another. Same thing on bone. There's too frail, and my line there is very high. Yeah. I want them to be as buried as possible. But there's also too coarse where their joints are this big, unmanageable, uh, and that's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

And I keep trying to bring up the functional part of this because I mean I I do think it's important. Um when we started making them real big legged, that's hard to get out of the sow as well. Bi big legs and and stout muscled ones, I mean, those are the two hardest things to get out. So I do think that there's a lot, and and I prefer legs to be as big as they can. Um But it it's just one thing that we do have to keep in mind. Like the bigger legged we make 'em.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Right. And that's probably again another episode when we'll get into something like that, where where people can tend to disagree on where the lines need to be drawn. Yeah. And and again, I said this in the last episode. If I can't get them, if you can't get them out, and we can't get them to the nursery, to the chip barn, to the cell ring, to the show ring, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the legs are this big if you can't get them out. Yeah. So, and I know there's there's a whole nother don't don't I'm all about the comments, but don't comment about ferrin practices and and that. I don't want to have that conversation on this episode. We'll have we'll do that one, and y'all can just blow the comments up about C City.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

Well, at the end of the day, it all goes back to what you said that you have to do what works for you, you have to do what works for you, and what your customer base wants. Yeah, you know, from that standpoint. And and we're rambling on physical traits again. So we need It's all right.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

We got we got time. That's why we made it two parts. So, um, anyways, lines of acceptability and all that, but you know I'll leave physical traits with this. Brennan Brinning said it from the mic at Expo one time, like you know, the NSR doesn't hire bad judges or whatever he said. Yeah. Um I thought was fitting and good, and like, don't throw rocks at the guy's judge. You can have disagreements with them. We all do. We've all sat on the outside of the ring and thought, man, I'd use that one. I've won what I thought I should have lost, and I've lost when I thought I should have won. And I've told other people that got third, like, man, I really I thought that one should have won. And that's fine. If if that wasn't the case, then again, if if we all left and said, Man, that's that's exactly how I would have done everything. I would have lined, you know, one through ten. You want to leave and say, Man, I I that's the pig I thought should have won the show. And and you want to leave and say, but but more times than not, you're gonna leave and say, I like that pig they used, twin. I might have used this one, but man, they did a really good job because they saw them right, they called them right, they drew their lines where they wanted to, and they were consistent.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

So well, and I think so. This is a thought that I just had, and and someone will say, Man, you're kind of reaching with this, but I keep going back to what's the purpose of a show pig, and it's to teach a kid something. So we're saying that we're not gonna have all the same opinions. How well and and with that, we need to teach kids to respect people that have different opinions in them. That is a bombshell on what's going on in our world right now of how much better off would our world be. Right now we have two, you know, maybe a lot a lot of sides. We have a lot of division because we can't respect people that have different opinions than opinions than us. I mean, you just can't it it it almost gives me chills that we can teach that with a pig. We can teach a kid that with a pig that you're not gonna agree with you're not gonna agree with somebody. Don't hate 'em. Be respectful to them, don't bash them online, don't say they're terrible and they're the reason the world is coming to an end.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

No, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 14:11

You know, and and so that teaches something that in life, they're obviously, you know, right now we it's hard for Americans to have that conversation if, you know, somebody wants to vote for Ken Paxton and somebody wants to vote for Talerico. Those two people can't talk respectfully right now on either side.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Right. No, no, that's a good point. And I think social media has a lot to do with that. Man, we were definitely going to turn here, but um because you do have the online chat type, comment type debate.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Uh a lot of people you say things you wouldn't say said face to face in an open debate. Most people wouldn't even engage in that. That's fine. That's not a skill that a lot of people have. I'm not no professional debater or anything, but um but again, yeah, and and and the way algorithms work and that you you you only see what basically what you want to see in a sense. You have to you have to diligently seek out like you know, and if we elated that to pigs, I don't know if that's that's but yeah, that's a great point that there's there's a whole nother side of of this industry that yeah, but so one thing that we haven't talked about from a physical trait standpoint, I know you said we're gonna finish on this, and that's I feel like that's all we've harped on.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

But um if I look at the uh color and condition of skin on pigs when the kids started, and the and Caden's first year to show was 2018. But if I look at like uh pigs in 17, 16, 15, and I look at pigs today, it's not just hair. We have them so much darker now. And you know, there's gonna be people that say, Well, my goodness, that definitely doesn't have anything to do with you know what a pig is supposed to be. Okay, it it depend depends on the purpose of your pig. Um, if the purpose of my uh of our bears is to teach my kids that um so if this is our goal, if this is our ideal, and and why do we want dark pigs? Okay, well, they look fresher, a hundred percent they look fresher. You hear that term a ton in the ring, this one's fresher. Um, it's just more eye-appealing than a gray pale one. It just is, you know. Okay. So my kids have to spend more time at the barn doing that. It's and it, you know, it goes back to the hair debate too. So hair and making them darker makes my kids spend more time and they have to work harder. Argue with me about that.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

And and I have had, I've had someone tell me, well, they need to be doing other things that are more important. Well, we're gonna try to be really good at one thing and one or two things, because we do show multiple species and they livestock judge. Now we're not doing 47 things. That's what we have elected to do. Um, if Caden was a hammer baseball player, then it might be different.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

And he's good when he was little and he was bigger than everybody else.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

And he was coachable. Um, but he, you know, we're not athletes, so we're gonna focus on what we're good at. Ish. Some people might say we're terrible at it.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah, that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Um, but you know, we're gonna put our efforts towards being really, really, really good at at one thing. And so um, with that said, it can go overboard and and we had approached that limit, I think. Um we were spending so much time at the show barn that it was consuming us to an extent, and that's not good either. Um, because it can take away, you know, it can't be an idol. And it was approaching that, I would say, with us taking care of we're all a little OCD, and so trying to take care of bears perfectly in steers was becoming an idol to us. And and we talked about that and tried to scale it back some last year. Uh, and I think our pigs were as white as they needed to be and as white, not wide, white, and as dark as they needed to be. Um, so anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there. That's another physical trait. You know, we get that question at a camp, like, I need to suntan my pig. What? Yes, because it's more eye-appealing. It's the trend right now. If they want to go back to grail to to gr to gray pale ones one day.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Well, and then and there's just I mean, we're getting uh we're talking about why this and why that. Like there there is again a tie on and anybody can disagree with me, but dark pigmented, denser haired, heavier duty ones, it goes together. I I see it happen every day.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah, thinner haired, frailer featured, lighter pigmented ones. It's just a fact. Um so so again, you think, well, yeah. Being dark pigmented, what does that matter? Well, there there's there's connections. And I think again, just to wrap up completely and and and move on to to feed, uh that that's another instance of well, why does that matter? Well, this is why, because it ties to this, this, and back to the way we started this whole physical trait thing in the last episode. Well, why doesn't be in longer fronted matter? Well, because there's a maturity pattern there, and you're trying to get to a well, you're trying to get in the middle, really. Depending on what you like and what your goals are. Again, you've got this maturity window. It's not like they need to be here. You've you've got both sides.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

In Texas, we have that because we have enough shows that if they wait two.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Well, and and and we'll do a podcast eventually on the argument of like, well, slower growing ones and a kid that can only afford one, and they were county shows this day, and what does that look like? And there's a there's a valid point to there.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

And again or like you used to say, if you knew the kid, you had kids, ad kids that were only gonna feed about five times a week, or five days out of the week, then you got them real stout ones.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Yeah, they well, yeah, that's a whole other podcast for sure, there too. But but but even with that, let the the argument of well, they need to be this maturity pattern so it'll work for this kid. Well, again, that comes back to the responsibility of the kid, the breeder, the kid, the person that's helping their parents of working in a plan of like, okay, there's some lines to be drawn. Let's just say on this specific, this kid's got a January case, shows he got 500 to spend. He needs a pig that doesn't live on the edge, so we're not taking unnecessary risk. This maturity pattern looks like this, so we're not taking unnecessary risk of being too big or too small. And so again, what all can be learned from that versus the the the opposite of this this family's gonna feed three and show one January, February, March. Just get us three kind of targeted for February, and we'll work them this way and the other. So there's there's lots of and business works that way, right? Like, let me put this together and we're gonna some people need this and that. So so again, there's there's the argument to be had in all that, back to your point. Let's have the discussion versus you're wrong and I'm right. Yeah, you're an idiot. You're ruining the show. You're ruining everybody's yeah, you you've lost your mind if you think pigs need to have legs this big. Well, as of recent, I've got a million reasons to think differently.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Well, you don't have it.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Well, I don't have it, yeah, but but but some but yeah, Keplinger does, and and Larry, and but again, people I thought that was the the great opening. Uh again, what what a pig that sold for that, whether you think they're they're worth it or not, doesn't matter. That's an incredible movement in an industry.

unknown 21:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

And you know how how many people are gonna say, Man, that's all that maybe maybe I could do that one, and maybe not maybe not even say that same. I'm just cool to be a part of it that that Sloan raised the boy he was out of, or that he was out of this and ties back to there, and that Kennedy, you know, had the sale, and there's just all these neat things that go into collaboration of people. And so but again.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

And if you don't want to spend what it takes to buy a semen, don't.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah, then don't. But if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you buying different. But so before we get too far back off topic here, on uh the next point of uh of the specific question that was sent into us of of maximizing things from a feed standpoint. Uh why do we do that? Well, I think we've covered in the uniqueness and the separation and all that um enough of of that side of the why. The obvious is there. But let's dig into it a little bit more of um what is uh what maybe falls in line, you think, from a from a teaching standpoint of strategy, availability, price.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Right. Well fall in the right. And I think it's you know, um we talk about the purpose of a show pig, and and later we'll talk about what the what a show pig contributes to ag, ultimately it contributes kids. Just let me finish that go into the workforce. And so I've seen this to where you find an aspect of it, like I'm trying to when we just threw feed in a self-feeders and we and and we didn't try to maximize a certain trait. I don't know if a kid learned as much about nutrition to where they really got interested in nutrition to say, I want to go work for a feed company one day to de help develop products that are gonna help kids do such, such, such with their animals, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Or even beyond that. That helps anything advanced in that. Yeah, yeah. Because but because you're saying that that thought's triggered from a I'll just use a simplistic one, adding paline and seeing a visible vis visible can't speak change in an animal, and that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Yes, like I love nutrition. I it I I was that weirdo in college that loved biochem. Like I went into meat science and I actually probably should have gone into nutrition um because I loved learning about how the body used that to make a change.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

And I think that came from seeing that with my you know, cattle and and pigs.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

I mean Right, no, that makes that makes perfect sense. So so um yeah, no, I like that and and you can see that in every phase of of life. So I gotta shrimp from literally in the nursery, off the sow, yeah in the ferry crate, even from sow nutrition and that all the way through different stages of maturity get them ready at the show, and you see all that, and it it's again it's a visible change, right? So the the the purpose, obviously, that's that's another unique take on it. The other thing that I was thinking of of just framing the question uh this is another instance where the same project can serve multiple different different goals. So I I was thinking of the backside argument to like all the supplements, all the this, all of that today. It's too expensive and too much, and you're this, that, and the other. Okay. That that that argument's grounded in the fact of this was designed for a person to um keep a record book, learn input cost, output cost, be profitable.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

And that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

And that's and and still can be, right? Like I guarantee in the well in the counties in the paint handle of Texas, you can buy a pig, you can show them at your county competitively, make the sale, and and come out on the top side. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm not saying it's every time, but it's possible.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

I think it goes back to what your family's goals are though.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

100%.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

You know, and there and there's people and people that we know that literally have tried showing and just can't because it doesn't pencil.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

And if that, you know, that's e everybody's gotta make that decision right now. Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

And again, you you you you you want to sustainability, the the way that industry works, you you want as much involvement and participation as absolutely possible. But you also you the you know baseball the same way. There's there's there's people that can't play baseball, you know, they just monetarily can't do it. And that and that's just you know, that that's what it is. I mean I can't there's things I can't do in life because it's just not you know, so there's that, but still at the end of the day if your if your goals and your purposes are I want to buy something what I would consider affordable for my kid. I want them to understand what they've got in it. I want them to feed it as economically as possible that we can we can get into the show ring, but but our our goals are economics.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Yeah. That's a that's a different thing. That's possible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

We can buy whips and brushes that that make that possible, this, that, and the other. And I mean, I I can remember when I was a kid that that uh uh Stevie Horton bought me a guilt. She was four hundred bucks. Um Denny Blue raised her, I believe. And my dad was one unhappy person that we bought this guilt for four hundred dollars. And uh I remember making the argument to him, well, we bought her, we didn't lease her, what's your old people? Anyways, but but you know, he came from it from a very that aspect of like what are we doing?

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Well, he's a grain farmer, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Yeah, no, and I and I get that. And I've had customers that have been very, or we've had customers that have been very successful that don't that they didn't show for a lot of reasons, well, because they couldn't afford it, but there's just uh a different principle. We're gonna go buy a set of heifers and and do it that way, and that's that's that's great. I I look at a lot of this now from the standpoint of you're investing in something in your kids, uh if you are, yeah, whether it's baseball or cheerleading or a lot of other things that I don't even know exist. This is another one of those that that has that aspect to it of pushing limits, going beyond, and some could say that it's it's foolish, some can say that it's invested too much, some can say, and that's their opinion, they have the right to that, and they've got some valid points of that too. I'm not arguing that at all. Um but you know, some could say like you don't need to go on vacation and do this. I mean the the lines can be drawn at everything, every aspect, I think.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

So well, and I do think, and and I don't want to get us off topic too much, but um you know, there's we have had the conversation about if we're going to get more participation in the uh junior livestock show program, should we do like I think the rodeo world does, where you have like novice divisions or you have different divisions.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yeah, if you go to a team rope and you've got 10, 9, 8, 7, 10, 10, 10.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Yeah, and so and you do not. So the the most experienced ones aren't uh competing with the least experienced ones.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

You know, I think it's a great concept. I have no idea how to implement it.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

I don't either. I think it's a I think it's something that probably needs to be talked about. Um at the same time, they kind of have that in select baseball. And um, I remember when Caden was on the team and he was on this like newly formed select team, and there was a team that was in a higher ranking that or higher division that somehow played down. My point is, and and they spanked us. My point is like it's never gonna be perfect, yeah. You know, uh uh from that regard.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Right. And again, back to what you said multiple times, nor when when a kid's an adult is is it ever that's the thing, you don't you can't level the playing field in business when you're an adult.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

So to an extent, this serves as a way to teach kids that and how to do the best that they can with what they have. So, you know, I I see both sides of it.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

And again, when a pig win a a pig that I don't know what he cost specifically, but that is under a thousand dollars, whether it was or it wasn't, and it works and they win, like win win, like win the Super Bowl of Varishows and it pays 80,000.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yes, that's that's the exception, not the rule. But there's there's differences to that, right? I mean, if if you really you calculate up a lot of things, like it's kind of like we talked about last time hotels, fuel, etc. It doesn't matter what you're doing, it's a it's it's the world that's expensive, right? So uh and and pretty much any time, but um so yeah. The the the other thing on on so so how we got to that on feeding, you know, you you've got lots of ranges and ways. So um, but it is neat to me, and many of you listening would would if you if you're listening, then you're obviously involved, how much the progression of feed, the technology, I'll use the word technology of nutrition is advanced. Yeah. Not only feed, but but supplements, and that they continue to um come out with different, whether it's joint supplements or electrolytes, etc., that you can see the visible difference. Where in the past I don't necessarily think that I'm not saying that it wasn't there, but it wasn't as good.

SPEAKER_03 32:03

Well, no, I mean when we show or when I showed, you we talked about how you wanted them to be really lean and really hard, and and you had, you know, yeah, they all got fed really high protein, low-fat feeds, you know, people use dextrose or whatever, but you didn't have um products necessarily like we do today that target certain things. You know, now we have fat-burning products, now we have milk-based fat products, the complete opposite. You know, we have all these different things. And to me, it's to help kids. So, you know, we've talked about all these different physical traits that pigs have. These products can help kids take a pig since it's not a very uniform group and and help make it more of what it needs to be.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

No, definitely. Yeah, you you have a a, especially in the pig deal, such such an advantage of of moling one in to what he needs to be. Um to, you know, let's just let's just take a litter of pigs and say you've got the the best two, the middle two and the bottom two, it's a litter of six. And uh, somebody will comment about that. They're all yeah, well, uh make it a litter of fifty. I don't care. But um and hypothetically, let's say the best two continue to progress, and they're the stout ones that kind of gotta be, again, nutrition matters, eased into things, and you've got the middle two that that kind of and then you've got the skinny greener ones that that really need to push to get there, but but the ability to to mesh those to all of their max potential and to shorten the gap from the let's just say ten thousand dollar pig to seven hundred and fifty dollar pig. Yeah, you can close the gap quite a bit on all of these things we're talking about, how you feed them, how you take care of them, so on and so forth, and that so there's a real ability to see visible change as as well as it's ever been.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

Oh no, yeah. And that was one of the comments that I saw online that just kind of made my skin craw. Is this I don't even know what exactly they said that oh, it's all these supplements now that cost all this money and don't do anything.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

And I'm like, And there are those. There there's there's there's supplements that don't that don't then again don't buy them. Then don't exactly.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

I mean, it it you know, and uh And there's there's there's not a one size fits all in anything. No, there's not. I mean it I guess at the end of the day, if you want to kick your pig out on a self-feeder of all stock pellets, hey, get after it. Get after it. Yeah, but your goals are probably gonna be different than ours. So it it it's what I think as a family right now, people need to sit down and have the conversation and say, what's our goal? Right, what's our budget?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

And but what fits in it again, if if it's if it's this is our budget, this is what we can do, let's figure out how to make that work and do the very best we can at our county fair. That's not to say that that person can't win their county fair. And like a second I mean, in the last five years, I can think of at least one, if not more, of the again toughest shows in the world that you wouldn't say were the most expensive pigs by the most expensive people, by the most veteran showing showmen, yeah, families, people helping, etc. So on and so forth. And uh yeah, so it it's neat neat to see that. And um again, back to our whole circle of industry, those things are developed because there's a need in an industry and a use, and then proven to work and then continue on. So so again, you expand those. There's a time that that wasn't there, but the industry wasn't there to to facilitate a lot of it.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

And I I will, you know, die on the deal of I I think it's fine and acceptable um that it is an industry. And I know that that some people don't agree with that, and you know, I'm sorry, we just don't have the same outlook on that, and that's fine, like we talked about earlier. We can have that conversation. I'm not gonna say you're stupid. Please don't say that I'm stupid.

unknown 36:04

Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

We just have a different opinion.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

You say there's stupid in the comments, I'm gonna take it out if I can.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Okay, let's get to what what uh show show pigs contribute to ag.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

All right, so yeah, so we've been having this conversation, and and so yeah, what what does the the show what does show livestock contribute to the ag world in itself? And I think you know, we we can piece together a lot of what we've already talked about of all of the traditional answers of hard work, responsibility, so on and so forth, but just the most recent one that Carrie brought up is nutrition and the spark from seeing a visible change in something that you've been taking care of and that carrying over to someone that then goes into a nutrition field, whether it has their direct tie might be to to feed yard cattle and maybe make an advancement in that or so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

You know, I um was growing up showing I was never interested to the ultimate, you know, goal of a uh show animal being on someone's plate. You know, Camlin really struggles with that still. Um, but then I got into college, and of all things, I loved meat science. I thought it was incredibly interesting. I loved the science behind it, especially on the fresh meat side. Um, that's what my master's thesis was on was um, you know, fat thickness levels on beef cuts at the retail stores. And so you never know what just being involved in an ag sector is gonna introduce you to when you get down the road. There were jobs when I was in college that I literally never knew existed until I got, you know, to that point. And so I think, you know, it's kind of like uh the girl that works for us, Rachel. She grew up in Pearland, showed pigs, liked pigs, went to tech, and then wanted to go work on a commercial farm. I mean, that's as full circle as you can get as to what a showing project can do, you know, it contributed to the workforce. It's funny, we talked about the commercial deal, and she will to this day say how bad the mothers were there. I've always thought that was kind of funny, the sales. But anyway, that's another topic. Um anyway, she's a perfect perfect example. She didn't, I don't even think, showed at a major show. I think she showed like at their school show. Um and that's fine. Like there's nothing wrong with that. Right. You know, and I do think that's one thing that we need to think about as an industry is um there's gonna be kids for lots of reasons that can't compete at a state and national level. And um, like we have a boy that works for us now, Aiden. He absolutely loves the show pig deal. He never had the opportunity to show at a major show because of where he lived and the school district he was in. I think he just had a a uh he was in Katie, so he just had like a Katie school pig or whatever. It's a lottery system, whole other, you know, podcast for that. But it ignited the love for part of the ag world in him. Um and you know, I I just think I think we know we don't need to overlook that sector of kids um that don't have the opportunity to show at a major show. Um, you know, I I love it that there's a place in the ag industry for them later on.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

No, definitely, and I think you see the the you see the same of of um well we're kind of getting to that point with Caden too, of the the networking and the people that you meet and the things that you see and and and even like you know where we are in life of of doing it for a living and kids showing and that, but I mean us and the kids both have seen things in in the world that that that you wouldn't wouldn't see outside of that, right? Like there would be no reason to travel to Arlington, Indiana, or Des Moines, Iowa, or there's probably other reasons, but um you know things like that and and then then the connections that you make. I mean most of my best friends are somebody I met through through this, and none of them really that that uh I grew up with other than one. Yeah. Um no for sure. And and so, you know, and and you can find that in in in every industry. Yes. But again, what does it contribute to that? I mean we we uh um yeah, and I feel like in a lot of our deal, we we get to we get to talk about uh faith, the Lord, and and and that with people that that this was the the catalyst that that he used, not we used, for that.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

So that's uh you know, that's uh and at the end of the day it is a product that's gonna end up in the food chain, and we always have to keep that in mind. Um you know, I mean the all of these livestock products go in the code.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

No, and I think we kind of we didn't we didn't finish up on on like on the on the feed part of pushing the limits, pushing the line, and and from an ethical standpoint, where where can you draw the lines? Well there's there's obvious lines to be drawn and from a food chain perspective, but and then there's there's other lines to be drawn from an animal welfare perspective and that and and can we maybe can do a podcast on that at some point because we've all you know we're all fallen man and and whatever. But um that that's another interesting talk of like, well, is is it ethical to push push things to this extreme or the other? And there's definitely lines to be drawn there of what's acceptable and what's not and and and that standpoint too. So that's another another aspect of it for another day. But so let's follow up with our last point here before we kind of then wrap up of um or talking about this of the why and the and the this and the other. What where can can criticisms be fair um of an industry? And I would say where can criticisms be fair? You could apply that to anything, like we've been talking about. And and there certainly are. And and you can look over the the show industry, you can look over the commercial industry, talked about that, and see where the limits were pushed too far, one way or the other, whether it's physical traits, um, how things have been handled, so on and so forth. But I think um a lot of those we've we've kind of discussed as we worked our way through there, where I don't think criticisms are fair in anything, is what we've kind of alluded to a few times of well, y'all can't do it this way because it's too expensive. We've we've made animals that are that are too expensive from the standpoint nobody can afford them, semen's too expensive, shavings are too expensive, feed's too expensive, so on and so forth. Because again, those are the real things that you see in life, and we see it worked out in this industry, right? It the and we keep coming back to the million-dollar board, but the thing didn't just bring a million bucks, and I thought somebody made a very good post about it of um it didn't just happen, it was the the unfolding of all of this work that were done not only by the Keplinger that raised him, but by Sloan that made the daddy and PBG that had him and the going out, and and you can trace it back to all of these people. Yeah. And whether it's that or the Grand Bear at Houston or the Grand Barrett San Antonio or OIE or the Indiana State Fair or the Grand Guild, you know, so on and so forth, um I don't think it's ever right to say that it's a criticism of we've made them too good, we've made them too high, we've made too many advancements. I I I don't see the I don't see that criticism being being fair.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Yeah. No, I mean I think there's a mindset that um not to get on a completely other controversial topic, but you know, I was told one time uh Um, well, this showing deal, it wasn't made. It was made for you to go with your hometown, with your ag teacher, with the kids from your hometown. It was made for y'all to all go show together. Show me where it says that.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Because in every other aspect of life, it's oh, if you're an FFA, go to the Washington Leadership Conference and meet kids from all across the nation and go to this camp where you meet kids from all across the state. It's like, oh, go meet and and do all this stuff. But when it comes to a show animal, no, you're supposed to do it with people from your town. Okay, make that make sense for me.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

You know, and and so um, you know, I think we just have to be level headed about it, and um I don't know, it just Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

No, I I I think it comes back to the same. Here's where that the a lot of arguments like that pivot from. It's not happening the way that I want to do it, or that I have done it and been successful, yeah, or the way that I think it should be. So we're going in the wrong direction. And that's right, that would be the same thing as if we sat here and said, You raise pigs that I don't like and are successful at it, but you're really doing it the wrong way. Well, I have no footing to stand on that other than the fact of if I was making that argument, I'm not, but if I was, the only argument that I would have that would be valid, and it wouldn't be valid, but that I would stand on is it's because I want it to look like I think it should look.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

And there's no person in this industry that's big enough to say it should look like I want it to look. Or in any any industry, because again, vast differences, vast uses from from the $300 county fair peg to the $750 County Fair to Major Show peg to the I shouldn't even put a dollar figure on that, to the showing at County Fair, showing at Jackpot's, showing at national shows, showing it state shows, um, showing breeding stock, on and on. There's just a you know, it it'd be the same as the commercial Angus Bull guys saying that you shouldn't raise feed yard cattle. Well, well, hold on. They they tie together, right?

SPEAKER_03 46:17

Well, it's kind of like, you know, so Expo is this next week. Um 20 years ago, Expo was all um open show. There wasn't even a junior show.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

It wasn't a junior show at all.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

Wasn't a junior show. I mean, can you imagine that? Like now it's a 2,500 head, 3,000 heads.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Oh, yeah, that's a great point. Imagine take that show itself and think of the difference in in 20 years. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

Because people thought outside the box and and did things differently. Um, so I, you know, I just have a hard time, a hard time thinking that we're in a bad spot, or we're in a challenging spot. It's not easy. It's as hard to win right now as it ever has been. I don't think that's a bad thing. I I just don't. It makes you better. You know, it's like here in our county, all we hear all the time is how do we increase participation? You know, it's these three or four families and they've just killed the numbers because these three or four people or groups or whatever always win. Well, it's raised the bar. It has. Any anybody that comes to a county fair that's good, it raises the bar for everybody else. It doesn't matter if you're talking about a county fair pig show or a business. You know, I mean, if you pour concrete and then you get some competition, you've got to get better to beat the to beat that other guy. Once again, a life lesson that's taught with a show picture. Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

No, and you see that in uh I mean again back to that you see that within the industry of of pushing one another makes makes you b uh it keeps you from being complacent. It keeps you from sitting there saying things are good enough. You're always and people that are successful, I think, are always at that. What can I do better? What can I do to make it better? And like you said, I think we can all fall on humanity, take that to a to an extent that's that's unhealthy and sinful and and unrealistic and wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Um of of focusing on on what can I well and I think like you said, you use the term successful, and I will go back again and say each family has to determine what that means on their own. Right. If you can only afford a five hundred dollar pig and you can't afford every hair growth supplement that there is, that is a million percent okay. You have to have realistic expectations.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

And and your goal, you know, is gonna be different maybe than than somebody else. And I don't I I think that's maybe where we're getting it wrong, is you know, we think that that's bad. It's not bad, it's just different.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Right, and that and that's and I know um I'm gonna I'm gonna clarify what you meant because I know what you meant. Um It's kind of like an RC sprule. Let me let me tell you what MacArthur meant to say. Um you didn't say that to say if you have a five hundred dollar pig and can only you know this and that you can't the sky's the limit. Yeah. But what you did say is yes, that's gonna be no different than if if you can if you can if you feed outside under the oak tree versus the hundred thousand dollar barn, doesn't mean you can't accomplish the same thing, but what you do is gonna look different in a lot of ways, and the amount of effort you're gonna put in is gonna be substantially different. Yeah. And yes, your realistic ex realistic expectations time after time after time are are probably gonna be different. That's just a fact. If I have ten sales, it's gonna be harder for me to win it than if I have a hundred cells.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

Yeah. Now that's just a fact.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

So there's plenty of guys that have less than 30 cells that win a lot more than plenty of guys that have a hundred cells. So it's it's the same concept, it's very doable, but it is different. But I like how uh again clarifying what you meant fully. It's okay to have different goals and expectations.

SPEAKER_03 50:32

Yes, there's nothing wrong with that. That's literally what makes the world go round, is that we all, you know, I mean, like I said earlier, we don't play baseball or any, we're not athletics, so we don't do any kind of sports. If we did, we would have to have realistic expectations.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 50:47

You know, um, so anyway, uh it's a lot to chew on, a lot to think about. Um again, it just pains me when people say everything's terrible, we don't we have it all upside down and the show pig deal's terrible. Well, no, it's not. And I will argue with you until I'm blue in the face.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

And I think like the the clearest I haven't even thought about that, but the the exposition that's happening when you listen to this, it'll be a few weeks in the past, but that that's a perfect example of like can you really look at that and say the junior livestock show pig industry is is going the wrong direction because where it was and where it is, you could take that with the with the whole industry, but we've we've done that enough. So um, yeah. Concluding up, I think that's that's uh that's been fun. Yeah, I liked it. It was it was a lot to think about, and uh hope y'all enjoyed it. Uh again, let us know what you think in the comments on our YouTube channel, subscribe to that if you haven't. Um follow us wherever you're listening to the podcast. We thank you. And uh didn't say this in the last episode, but yeah, if there's anything that we can do for you, if we can pray for you, yeah. Um thank you to those guys that have have have taken us up on that. That's something we take lightly and appreciate that too. So uh yeah, we hope you've enjoyed it. We had a good time sitting here, and uh thanks as always.