Postpartum unfiltered: The parts no one tells you

In this episode of the Kind of Bold podcast, host Camille sits down with Erin Kasungu, co-founder of the Rooted Family Wellness Centre in Ottawa, birth and postpartum doula, and pre/postnatal fitness specialist. Together they explore the often overwhelming realities of postpartum life—from sleep deprivation and isolation to breastfeeding challenges and the pressure to feel joyful. This honest conversation offers clarity, compassion, and practical support for anyone navigating or supporting the postpartum period.

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Transcript

Introduction

Camille 0:01

In this episode of a Kind of Bold podcast, we're exploring the realities of postpartum life. Period that's often misunderstood, idealized, or overlooked entirely. Many women enter motherhood with expectations shaped by what they've heard about birth and early parenting. But the reality can be overwhelming. The sleep deprivation, the isolation, the constant responsibility, and the intense, often conflicting emotions of love, exhaustion, and fear. To help us unpack these experiences, I'm joined by Erin Kasungu, co-founder of the Rooted Family Wellness Centre in Ottawa, who is also a birth and postpartum doula and a pre-postnatal fitness specialist. Whether you are in the thick of postpartum, preparing for it, or supporting someone who is, this conversation is meant to offer clarity, honesty, and compassion. I'm Camille, and this is Kind of Bold. Postpartum experiences vary widely. This conversation reflects some, not all, of those realities. The focus here is on aspects that are often difficult and still unevenly supported. If you are currently pregnant or in the early postpartum period, please listen to your heart as you dive into this episode. So, Erin, it's so special to have you as a guest because you were my doula while I was pregnant. And I don't know, you might recall, but I was pretty open to different kinds of scenarios when it came to my son's birth and my postpartum experience. I was like, you know what? Whatever happens, happens. If I need to get an epidural or not, like if I need to breastfeed or not, I'm open to anything. But I didn't account for the hormones, the love, the exhaustion, all of that. And that changed everything. And essentially all plans, expectations I had went out the window. Yeah. I'm wondering if this is the sort of thing that you see a lot with the women that you support.

Erin Kasungu 2:05

Full circle moment, right? You know, now it's uh really lovely to just be on with you today and what you're doing. So I appreciate it. Yes, it is. I think a lot of women go into the birth experience, a lot of especially type A's, thinking that you know, they can kind of plan for this um journey that they're gonna have and might read all the books, might not read all the books, but have this sense that, like, well, it'll likely go this way.

Why Society Treats Birth as Trivial

Camille 2:32

It's so true. What you said about type of personalities, that is totally me. I like to be in control in my life. I'm a big planner, I have lists. I had read all the books, except I hadn't read anything about C-sections. For some reason, I thought this was not gonna happen to me. That I was somehow protected, and therefore I did not know what to expect. This came as a shock, to be honest. You know, how I was um quickly whisked away and then strapped to the aura table, and that was pretty pretty traumatic for me. And even a vagin of birth can be traumatic. Giving birth is actually one of the most intense physical and emotional experiences that a woman can go through, right? Like so I'm wondering why we still treat this as almost trivial. Like, I don't know if it's because women have done it since the beginning of time and it's like the most natural thing, but it's still a pretty major experience. So, like, why do you think society treats it as like oh it's just another birth?

Erin Kasungu 3:37

You know what I what I've heard a lot is as long as the baby's healthy, right? I've heard that many, many times. And so maybe this comes from this kind of martyr syndrome, maybe a little bit that our grandmas and grandmothers might have had along the way, right? As kind of the sacrificial piece to birth. And so, yeah, I have heard that, like, especially doctors or care providers who will say, like, well, your baby's healthy, right? Um, and it kind of excludes that this was an experience equally for the mother as well, being born. Um, so yeah, it's I think it's kind of this missing the honoring of that mother who passes through the journey as well.

Camille 4:16

Is that a gap that you're trying to fill as part of the work that you do? You know, shifting the focus away from the baby a little bit and onto the mom because she matters too. And in fact, her well-being is essential and determines how well the baby's going to be, right? Like we have to be well in order to care for a baby.

Erin Kasungu 4:37

That's right. And uh exactly, if the mom is unwell, everything, everything goes awry, right? And so that's exactly it. And it's funny, we run a baby cafe free drop-in every Thursday. And I've made it a habit now because one mom mentioned this to me a while ago. I asked her her name first, and she made a call like before I asked her a baby's name. She's like, that's the first time anyone's asked me my name at a drop. Oh my god. And she's like, You see me, right? And so I was like, Oh, like I didn't even think about it, right? And then, like, usually, right? Our instinct is like, Oh, how is your baby? How it's his name, and how are you, right?

Camille 5:14

And how like, does the baby sleep through the night? And does the baby feed well? How are you? How are you feeling or like no new phase of your life?

Erin Kasungu 5:24

Right. So, yeah, that's and that is it, right? The focus is often on the baby. We come, we have our family comes over and it is wonderful. We're welcome, this new little being, and oh my gosh, they're so cute. I don't know if you had this experience, but you almost sit in the background of all that, like I I'm leaking everywhere, I'm in pain, I just want to go lie down, right? And I'm supposed to be joyful and happy, but at the same time, I'm also I'm trying to recover. It's a challenging role to take on, and we don't have quite the community supports that are necessary to do the job correctly and roll and heal in the way that we should be.

Camille 6:03

And you said the expectation is that we should feel joyful and happy, that it should be the most amazing moment of your life. And if it's not, for whatever reason, there's just guilt or this feeling like what's wrong with me? I have terrible health anxiety, so anything to do with my child's health is always on my mind. And of course, there's so little when they're born, and there's also family history. I was just worried, and sometimes I still feel sad about it eight years later. But honestly, the day he was born, I wouldn't say I felt joyful and happy. I was just worried, I was anxious to get confirmation that he was well. I was, I don't know if other moms have shared that with you that maybe that day wasn't the best day of their life, however much they love their child.

Erin Kasungu 6:53

I feel like that moment we build it up so much, and you have this kind of expectation of gratitude, right? That you have the healthy baby. So shouldn't I be grateful? It's often overwhelmed, right? And it's a mix and it switches. I can go from very high, you know, the highest of the high, you're looking at your baby's eyes, and then that complete anxiety, like you talked about, like, oh my god, are they breathing? Sometimes it's like, where's the joint again? Because I'm anxious, I'm overwhelmed, I'm healing. And so that, like kind of finding that moment, and maybe it comes later for a lot of people, right?

Emotional Challenges in Early Postpartum

Camille 7:28

Two things can be true, right? You can discover this love that you have for your child, so it can be this beautiful feeling, and at the same time, you can feel uncomfortable feelings such as anxiety, perhaps grief as well, right? Because it feels very real that you're leaving behind a chapter of your life and moving on to a new one. I remember when we brought my son home, he was so tiny in his car seat, and we put the car seat on on the floor and we just looked at him. And I just remember in this moment, I could not believe how much I loved him. I had known him for two days, and I was just looking at him, and I could not believe the love I was feeling. It's like nothing I had ever felt before. And sorry for my partner if he listens to this. I love him very much, but it was just so, so special. And at the same time, we had one of the hardest nights. He was crying, crying, and of course, I was exhausted from my C-section. So I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit to some of the emotional challenges that moms feel in the first few days, or some of the key things that women might experience in their very early postpartum phase.

Erin Kasungu 8:42

Yeah, I mean, there's hormonal shifts happening in those first three to five days, right? It's dramatic. So you're at a very high progester and estrogen levels in pregnancy. When that placenta comes out, those levels drop within the first 24 hours, right? And so that can lead to the the crying for no reason, the irritability or the confusion, that anxiety also. So not only are you kind of dealing with this physical trauma as well as kind of these this emotional trauma, but these hormones that you were relying on in pregnancy are gone until they kind of come back to normal levels. But yeah, you get this kind of crash. So I think that can, for those who have had anxiety before pregnancy, um, that might trigger some things, like, oh my goodness, that maybe this is happening again. You know, doubts of being a good mom, um, anxiety levels rise because I don't know about you, but I also would like to look over and make sure they were breathing. I put my hand on my kids and be like, okay, they're okay, right? So you kind of become hyper aware of keeping that human alive, as well as your mind can have intrusive thoughts too. A lot of that happens, can be very normal to just feel like maybe this baby won't live, right? So I think the kind of mental talk along with now the sleep deprivation. So yeah, just this kind of disruption and those early days can kind of make you feel like what did what what happened and what what did I do?

Camille 10:08

And we don't really get told about those hormonal shifts. I do not recall anyone, you know, my OBGYN or family doctor telling me that I should anticipate hormonal shifts and what that might look like. And a lot of what you're describing is normal, and yet if it happens to you, it doesn't feel that way, right? It feels abnormal. Like, what is wrong with me? I've never felt this way before. That is not the picture perfect image of postmodern that everyone told me about. So I wonder if you could speak to like why this lack of awareness and education, and also what do you advise the women that you support when they go through this?

Erin Kasungu 10:50

So I guess I do feel like a lot of it's focused on the birth, right? I I mean, for especially an OB experience, it is like to testing your levels and making sure you're healthy in your pregnancy, um, which is great. We love that. That's important. But like you said, I like once that baby's out, it's like, you know, that's it. The job is done. The story's done, off you go. And you're just everywhere. We see that OB or we see that midwife weekly, and then all of a sudden, baby's born. It's like, see ya, come back in six weeks, or you know, whatever, figure it out. I think that's a big part of it. It's just this the continuation of care. Whereas I'll use in surgery, for example, a lot of people go in for surgery. You go in, and then that post-surgery care is fantastic, right? You get all the exercises, you get the right, you get your plan for recovery, and then you go see a physiotherapist. So there seems to be this shift that needs to happen. That like the birth isn't just the end point, it's mostly the beginning point, right? And so, how do we flip that to the conversations about your pregnancies?

Camille 11:58

Yeah, I remember when I met with my OB after the birth, the only thing she asked me, and she was great, don't get me wrong. Like, she the care that she gave me throughout pregnancy was great, but the only thing she asked me is if I wanted to be on the pill. Like that's literally all it was about. And so, do you have any special advice or how do you reassure women or what is it that you say in these situations?

Sleep Deprivation and Its Impact

Erin Kasungu 12:22

I focusing on them, looking at them and addressing them first and making sure, like we said, are you okay? Right. And um, letting them voice some things. Did I make the right decision? Did this get forced on me? It's just kind of honoring and listening to the birth story or what they're feeling about the experience that happened. I think that's a big part in it. And then just reassuring, like, this is hard.

Camille 12:45

And one thing that is not talked about enough, in my opinion, is how brutal not sleeping feels like. And and of course, everyone knows, everyone expects that sleep is going to be disrupted in the first few weeks, but no one really tells you how terrible it can be. And your postpartum experience can really vary depending on whether you are lucky to have a baby who sleeps or not, from the get-go, right? We can do anything if we feel rested. And feeling tired is very different from being sleep deprived. We know from research that chronic sleep deprivation can impact memory, reduce emotional regulation, increase stress hormones like cortisol, and even affect the immune function. How does sleep loss impact new mothers in terms of what you have experienced?

Erin Kasungu 13:41

Well, it is a torture. Sleep deprivation has been used as a torture technique. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So if if you think about it that way, it can literally feel like torture. It can feel like I couldn't get my bearings. Like I just every day seemed to fall into the next, and I just felt like I couldn't quite get a grip on the day or myself. Then eating goes down the tube, right? Like when we're not sleeping well, we're like grabbing sugary things because we're tired or more caffeine. So it has that ripple effect onto every aspect of our life. Our eating, our anxiety levels, our irritability, our ability to think positively or find solutions. It's deeply impacting a person's anxiety. Could fix the sleep piece, you might actually like refined that lightness to life again. I think it's one of those things we can tell people that you're you might feel sleep deprived and baby's not gonna be sleeping much in the first few weeks. But I feel like everyone has that, like, I'll be fine, right? Kind of a little optimism.

The Importance of Community and Planning

Camille 14:46

How bad can it be? Right? How bad can it be? I did go out late in the past, and you know, I was fine for and I wonder here, though, because obviously we don't want to scare expecting moms and new moms, but at the same time, we want them to have the tools that they need to be as prepared as possible. So it would be great if this could be talked about so that they can put a plan in place. Do you have anyone to delegate the feedings to? Are you guys going to take turns? Uh, do you have any like just as a conversation starter to make sure that they have the village that they need? Because I don't have any family in Canada. I severely underestimated how hard it was going to be because I'm a very independent person. Generally, I was like, ah, you know, I've done so many things in my life, I can do this, but this is one of those things that's very hard to do alone.

Erin Kasungu 15:34

100%. Yes. A lot of people do their birth plan. So they think about all the things that you want. We know birth plans are, I would say, more of a wish. The birth wishes. So how your breath's gonna go. And then learning how to cope with what actually unfolds. And then the same thing, like a postpartum plan, right? And sometimes if you don't know, you don't know. That's what I tell a lot of people. So if you didn't know that maybe you needed to plan for when you were gonna sleep, my partner will take the baby and I'll sleep. Well, it's not that easy, right? Maybe both of you are up in the night, or your baby's only breastfeeding, so you will have to be up every three hours. So kind of talking through game plans, and that's as a postpartum duela. That's what we would do. Okay, I'd arrive and it's like, who hasn't slept yet? Okay, he hasn't slept. He was okay. Dad was up all night. All right, he goes to sleep, mom. Let's chat, and then maybe you want to have a shower. I feel like it's three adults to one baby, to be honest, in those first couple of weeks. It really is, right? Oh, interesting. And I think that's what's so surprising to people. They don't think like, okay, we're tag teaming, but the tag teaming is actually well, one is tired, is up all night, or didn't sleep very well, so they're gonna go to bed. But the other one, okay, well, now they need to shower and there's no food, and the garbage needs to go out, and the dog needs to be walked, and that's right. So that whole list of things that used to happen easily to like taking off the garbage when you have no baby is is a you don't even think about it, right? But it's so much effort to think back.

Isolation and Loneliness

Camille 17:04

And a lot of people don't have a village, right? Oh, yeah, or they moved across the country, or they have friends, like we had friends, but I mean they worked during the day, right? Like I was on my leave, but also it was winter. My son was born in November. We we only had one car that my partner needed to take to go to work, so it just felt really lonely, and that's something that caught me off guard of how lonely I felt. Like you would think that having another person with you would mean that you have company, but I felt the loneliest in my life when my son was little, for sure.

Erin Kasungu 17:42

Yeah, so ice isolation. So even with a partner, even if you have a partner with you, um, there is this deep sense of isolation. I think there's a lot of like repetitiveness to having you can you remember that? Just like, okay, get up, feed, change the diver, go to bed. Like, like, right? It's just it's boring, endless boring cycle. And they're like, they do not, they're not very exciting, and they're not, right? They're on in a cycle and it's very repetitive and they can be lonely. And so community and forcing yourself to go out and seek it is so important to have somewhere to go where they can just get a break from the repetition and get out of the house and just kind of land somewhere there where people understand kind of what they're going through.

Camille 18:28

Speaking of going out, I remember for me it was very daunting. Just the amount of preparation it required as much as I wanted to get out of the house, just the thought of having to go and potentially missing something or the baby being hungry and not being in a space where I could breastfeed or give a bottle, that created so much anxiety. I had to really force myself out, even though I'm someone who is usually pretty you know sociable. That was one thing I didn't expect at all. Right? Oh my goodness, especially because he was born in November.

Erin Kasungu 19:04

So you had the like the whole cycle, yeah, you had the whole cycle of winter with a newborn of like trying to get out of the house. Like mine were born in May and June, so a little easier time I pulled them the stroller off we go. But leaving the house in the winter, it's like a whole other land. So having to plan your exit around their schedule. It takes almost a whole hour just to get yourself and the baby ready, feed, change, pack the bag, figure out where you're going, get them out in the car seat. It can take almost a whole hour just to get yourself out the door. So that can feel very intimidating and anxiety-inducing to just even leave. And like, is it worth it to even step out of the house, especially in the winter time? So, yeah. So I just like I always say, I'm so grateful. I know how hard it was for you to leave the house. I honor that, and I'm so glad you're here. It took so much for you just to leave the house. So just even like honoring that in people and reminding them like just showing up is hard.

Camille 20:00

I think we need to help mom feel like that's just temporary too, right? Like it feels like it's perfect. It seems like it's forever, right? It feels like it's forever, but it's temporary, but the days are really, really long. So it's hard to project ourselves and hope for better days when you're in the thick of it.

Erin Kasungu 20:17

100%. So like what we talked about, that repetitive cycle. You eventually just like, is this my life? Is this exactly? Did I sign up for this? Is this my life? Totally. It's a season that did eventually pass. I did sleep a little more, and they do adjust, and life gets a little bit easier and you start to find that rhythm again. But it does take that little unsteadiness. And everything is new, right?

Camille 20:40

Even if you've read all the books and spoke to people, you're doing everything for the first time. So if you take this out of context, let's say you were to do any job for the first time, you wouldn't be expected to excel at it right away. But for some reason, when it comes to mothers, especially, there's this idea that we should intuitively know exactly what to do and how to do it well. And I find that puts an enormous amount of pressure on women.

The Comparison Trap and Baby Personalities

Erin Kasungu 21:07

Absolutely, right? There is that kind of messaging that even breastfeeding is natural. If it's natural, then it'll just happen. It's like, no, breastfeeding is like a job, right? I there's positions and there's the baby's anatomy and your anatomy, and it's clunky, and you've never done it before. Parenting is you learn on the job, unfortunately, right? How to put them to sleep or notice their cues that are unique to your family unit, too. Every baby, and this is the one thing I've learned, is every baby is different. There's there's no baby the same. And so that's where it comes very tricky to not compare yourself to others as well. So, why isn't my baby feeding? Why why can't I get my baby to latch? Right? Why they can, or why is that baby sleeping through the night and my baby's not? Um, and I've my boys couldn't have been more different in their personalities. Right from birth, and knowing that these little creatures are also in of themselves all unique and will have different needs and different anatomies and different personalities right from the get-go.

Camille 22:13

Yeah, I think this is so important to mention because if you have a baby who doesn't sleep through the night, who doesn't feed well, it's like a reflection on your ability to parent it. Yes. And I think that is so unfair because, like you said, they have their own little personalities. My son was never really a fantastic sleeper. I think there is definitely worse, but he was definitely not a good feeder. We tried introducing solids at six months and then he refused it. We tried it every two weeks after that. It's only until when he was a bit about eight to nine months that he started to be interested in having solids, and he's been picky ever since. I mean, is it anything that I did? I don't think so. But did it feel like I was failing at it? Making all those purees and spending time making food? I always remember that one time. He must have been about 10 months old. I just lost it. You know those plastic containers where you freeze baby food? I have so many of those in the freezer. I took the entire tray and I threw it into the stick. I was like, I'm done. Because everything would end up in the garbage, anyways. And I just felt like, why cannot, for the love of God, feed my child like everyone does? Like, why do women feel so guilty of every step of the way when things don't go the way that society expects when we know that it's down to the baby's personality?

Information Overload and Trusting Your Gut

Erin Kasungu 23:44

Right, right. Comparison is a thief of joy, is a quote I love because it really is. There's this little judgments that come along from parents, then our peers, and then there's social media through that on top of everything. Am I a good mom? Am I doing the right things? I remember that for my first. He would not sleep and we would bounce and we would bounce. He just needed constant contact and he was very, very attached. So we'd spend hours and hours. And I remember just like all the other moments, oh, he's sleeping through the night. And I did take it very personally. Like I wasn't doing enough and I was doing something wrong. So he scrambled, he tried lots of different things. And then when my second came, he was very more relaxed. He was just like, sure, I'll sleep forever. And I was just like, Oh, it wasn't me. It was me. I remember that finally feeling like, oh, he's a completely different baby. This is what the other moms were talking about. So I get it now, right? You're gonna you're gonna look outward and find your values. What are you as a family valuing? What when and how are you getting sleep? And if that's not happening, how can we change that and make that a priority? Or do you want to co-sleep? Like, do you want the baby in your bed with you? Then let's figure out strategies to make that happen. If you really are uncomfortable or that's not working for you, then let's try something else.

Camille 25:06

There's too much information out there, it's overwhelming. Like you mentioned, co-sleeping versus you know, the baby sleeping in its own crib. But it's with everything, like every breath they take, there's an opinion out there as to how they should take it, right? We don't even listen to our guts anymore. We Google everything. And I don't know if you see that with mothers. And do you advise them to take a step back and think? Because like we have access to so much information these days and so much conflicting information. It's like, how do you make decisions?

Erin Kasungu 25:40

Yeah, and you get lost, and like you said, you kind of lose your own ability to trust or to know or to develop your own values around things. So, an example is like starting solids, and there's a conversation about you shouldn't be giving them mushed up food, or you shouldn't start with cereal, or you should start with baby-led waiting, or you shouldn't, because they might choke. And so you'll find advice on both ends of the spectrum. Sometimes it's like put the phone down, take a breath, enjoy your baby. Let's see if you can just be present with them, watching them, yeah, being in the present moment.

Camille 26:18

It's very difficult. I'm thinking of padding or no padding around the crib, and you know, stuffies or no stuffies in the crib, or apparently you can't even leave your baby in the car seat on the floor. It's just well, at least I didn't have Chat GPT. Didn't exist when I had my son, but that would have been another layer. Another layer, another layer, yes. Yeah, it might actually be a little bit better in some situations than Google, because like Google that all it checks is you ending up on a forum where this one mom had this one catastrophic experience doing XYZ, and all of a sudden this is gonna happen to you. Right.

Erin Kasungu 26:57

Yeah, the anxiety swirls, yeah. Yeah, Chat GPT is a bit more direct, but it's also pulling from the confusion of information aspects.

Feeling Touched Out and Self-Care

Camille 27:05

You mentioned breastfeeding earlier because that also was challenging for me. I had low supply. I mean, I'm convinced I did, even though I went to see several uh breastfeeding, what do you call them again? A lactation consultant. Thank you. Yeah, I went to see, I think we went to see two lactation consultants, and both times they said, Oh, everything's fine. And so I felt like my experience, my feelings were dismissed completely because I was like, Do you think I would have come here if I thought everything was fine? I mean, yes, I have a lot of time on my hands, but still, you know, I felt like every time I would put him on the rest, he was crying and he just didn't seem satisfied, right? But they saw him feel of course, it's kind of like when you've got something going on and you go to the doctors, and of course, the doctor, it's gone, right? But it's like, come on, just believe me. If I come here, it's because I do have a concern. Also, I felt like it was again a very lonely experience. I felt chained to the couch, and at the end of the day, I felt completely touched out. I actually came across this term recently, feeling touched out. I wish I had back then, because that's exactly how I felt. Like my partner would come home after work and I would say, just get this baby off me. Make him like just get it off me because he had been on me all day, and I felt bad about that. I was like, you know, I'm his mom. I love him more than anything. Why can't this moment?

Erin Kasungu 28:36

Yeah, yeah. It was very common. I remember we lived in an apartment at the time. I would like stand by the window at like 5 p.m. and just like wait and wait for my partner to come back. There was just this anxiety and that feeling of just being a bit trapped with this human that needs you so much, and that you just like, okay, I like my cup is empty. I need a moment to refill somewhere. So yeah, yeah.

Camille 28:59

So knowing and a shower is not enough, right? A shower can be a moment of self-care. Sure. But it it's only a few minutes. And that's like you said, it's not gonna refill your cup. You need more arms around you that can take the baby.

Erin Kasungu 29:12

You do, and knowing what fills your cup, right? Like to really understanding what that is. Is it going for a walk? Is it getting a bit of sunshine? Is it reading a book? Like, what is that? Like, find something that's gonna make it feel like you did refill your cup.

Camille 29:28

It's really important. You're so focused on the baby that I almost lost sight of my own needs and what I wanted. Like, I know that if anyone with the best of intentions had come to me, what do you need to fill your cup? But not been able to say it. I don't know. I don't know. All I can think about is his well-being, what he needs, and what I should be doing to keep him alive.

Erin Kasungu 29:57

And sometimes the things you used to do don't give you the same pleasure, pleasure, I guess, right? Very true. Yeah, so like it is almost having someone else just tell you what to do too. It's also go for a walk. Okay, thanks. Someone almost recognizing that your cup is empty would go a long way. That's seeing the mom kind of back to the top of our conversation. That's like someone being able to say, Are you okay? And some you and being able to respond honestly, which is

Camille 30:22

But being able to respond, that's the thing. I keep saying, Yeah, we need to ask moms how they are, we need to provide support. But I think you're in that headspace where you're not ready to accept that help. And going back to breastfeeding, what is your general approach when women come to you with breastfeeding issues? Or what trends are you seeing in terms of moms breastfeeding versus choosing to bottle feed?

Erin Kasungu 30:48

My goodness. I'm very good.

Camille 30:50

That's a loaded question. That's a lot of this could be an episode on the in the health.

Erin Kasungu 30:55

It's true. So sleep and feeding that baby are the two postpartum challenges that land at the top of someone's journey and how well it's gonna go, right? So if you're sleep deprived, we know we talked about that. And if feeding isn't going well, that can derail, foo, it derails the whole thing. And so if the expectation, again, choosing to bottle feed, that's fantastic. And if you're gonna try breastfeeding, yes, that can lead to some of the most stressful times in the postpartum. And this is saying breast is best, so now it's fed is best, and now I'm like, sanity is actually best. I'm like, I love go back to like if the mom is not doing well, nobody's doing well. And so this feeding piece, I feel like brings in all of these things we've talked about. The anxiety, the I'm not doing good enough, the shame. All of these pieces get wrapped into that feeding journey. And so when it's not going well or if it's bumpy, and a lot of it is bumpy at the beginning, it's clunky, like you, right? Sometimes milk's not coming in, sometimes your nipples are on fire, sometimes, right? Babies got a tongue and lip tie, not letting them open their mouths up. So they've got issues going on. Sometimes they're really gassy. We're seeing mastitis and engorgement too. So a lot of issues that probably could be resolved with a little bit of help. So if I could wave my magic wand um and I could only choose one thing that we had more support for would be that feeding journey. Because I feel like that transforms everything. There's pressure on the baby to gain weight in those first 10 days. And if they're not gaining weight, right? There's the pumping, there's the triple feeding, and then introducing formula. So there's a lot of emotion with all of that and feelings of failure. So that piece for me, I would I felt all of this. Yeah, you felt for me. If I were to do one thing, this is would be the one thing. If we could have one-on-one feeding support in the early days, at least the first two or three weeks where there was someone you could go to for free, like to have this as part of your postpartum, your surgery plan, like your knee recovery. Oh, may the world hear you through this podcaster. And our team is there, and we have a team of two lactation consultants, and they're very busy and it's phenomenal, but it's out of pocket. We understand that for the most part, right? So people who can't afford this are now either struggling or trying to go to some drop-ins and really trying to map their own journey. So, all the anxiety around just getting the right support for feeding, I think, could curb a lot of anxiety, a lot of postpartum mental health issues.

Camille 33:33

This is the biggest thing I regret. I felt so invested in feeding my child and feeding him the way that I had intended on feeding him with my low supply. I was just crying non-stop. Like, why can't I feed my child? Yeah, this is the part where if I could talk to younger Camille eight years ago, I would say just think of your sanity. Like you said, sanity is best. Start bottle feeding, it had such a major impact on my mental health, and it made everything else harder. Yep. And I'm not saying this as if you encounter any challenges, don't try to seek help and fix it. But we had tried, and it wasn't at least what we had tried wasn't working, and I kept pushing it at the expense of my own sanity and mental health. And that's one part I regret for sure.

Erin Kasungu 34:27

Yeah, we're putting the onus on that sleep-deprived, over-anxious, overwhelmed parent to find the resources to support them. So it's backwards. Like, why isn't that proactively being done? Okay, when baby's born, you're not getting that kind of continuous support or in-home support unless you have a midwife. So that's where again the midwifery care is important. And they come to the house. So I remember that I got checked at home and they were looking at latch and helping me there. And it was so much more relaxing than I think having to have left the house and get there, and then you're trying to see, like you said, in front of someone, then it goes well, and they're like good to go. And you're on right, you're like, no, it's not. So there's just a lot of rushness to that system as well.

Camille 35:07

Now, Erin, if you were to give a final word for our listeners on how to navigate the postpartum period, you know, how to find that balance between love and overwhelm. What will be one takeaway?

Erin Kasungu 35:21

I think give yourself some grace and forgive yourself. There's a lot of that shame. You and I, we have perspective now. We look back and we say, I mean, I would tell myself X, Y, Z. So I do feel like removing some of that guilt and shame and some of those expectations, I guess, on what you thought it would be. So recognizing maybe where are you putting an expectation versus kind of what's unfolding, and then kind of having some grace for yourself because it's not easy, it's not supposed to be, and then you will get through it. So just having that hope, you'll get through it. It's a season, and then just you know, come out the other side and we'll be changed, and then you'll have your lessons and you'll be able to pass those on to other people, and that's the hope, right? We go through hard things sometimes, and part of that is we do then need to make sure we pass that along to other people. Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. Yeah, and reduce our own judgment. I think I became a much better parent unless I had kids. You know, they say like you're a perfect parent until you have kids, right? So I think as much as things are hard, sometimes we go through things so that we can support other people who are probably having a hard time as well.

Camille 36:32

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it or found it helpful, you can follow wherever you get your podcast or share it with someone who might need to hear it to. Until next time, be bold, be kind, and don't apologize for holding both. I'm Camille, and this was Kind of Bold.