Cultural Luxury and Global Vision: Clint Nagata on Building BLINK Design Group

In this episode of the OLISE Podcast, Annie White sits down with Clint Nagata, Founder and Creative Partner of BLINK Design Group, for an in depth conversation about global hospitality design, cultural luxury, and building an international studio without ego.

From leading iconic projects for One&Only, Six Senses, and Banyan Tree Dubai, to growing BLINK into a 120 person practice across Bangkok, Singapore, Dubai, and London, Clint shares what it really takes to scale a creative business while protecting its culture.

Born in Hawaii and now based in Bangkok for over 20 years, Clint reflects on how travel shaped his worldview, why he believes luxury is no longer singular, and how cultural luxury designing through the lens of place has become central to Blink’s philosophy.

He speaks candidly about walking away from projects when visions do not align, why losses can be more valuable than wins, and how humility, transparency, and friendship underpin his leadership style.

Clint also shares the story behind A Wish to Remember, Blink’s internal travel award created in memory of a beloved team member, and explains why exposure to the world is essential if designers are to create meaningful hospitality experiences.

This is a conversation about resilience, perspective, mentorship, and what it means to design for the next generation of global luxury travellers.

In this episode
• Growing BLINK organically into a global hospitality studio
• Why cultural luxury is redefining high end design
• Designing through interpretation, not imitation
• Leadership without ego and building an egoless firm
• Moving from creative to business leader
• Why losses can be more valuable than wins
• Transparency, open studios, and global team culture
• Mentorship and shaping the next generation of designers
• The story behind A Wish to Remember
• Why Morocco is next on Clint’s design horizon

Headline Sponsor

This episode is supported by Calibre Climate, specialists in bespoke climate control for high end homes. Their goal is not just temperature control, it is creating environments that feel effortless, balanced, and considered. Calibre Climate works closely with architects and interior designers to deliver quiet, beautifully integrated air conditioning solutions.
https://www.calibreclimate.com/

Perfect for

Interior designers, architects, hospitality professionals, studio founders, creative directors, and anyone interested in global design leadership, cultural storytelling, and building a values led business.

Listen and Watch

Full video available on YouTube
Audio on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major platforms

Guest Link:
BLINK Design Group
https://www.blinkdg.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Blink's been going for 20 years. You're a creative. Where did that journey start from being a creative and then turning into like a big global business and taking it to that next level of business leadership? Talk me through that and how you kind of cope with that transition.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

When I left uh university and I worked for WTG, I had the fortune of um working under Don Goo, the G in WTG, and he was an amazing businessman. And from there I was inspired to read books about businesses, and I realized that to be successful, you it wasn't just about being a good architect. It was more so about understanding the business of architecture, the business of design. He would always force me to try and see the big picture, but then focus on the little details. It's an ego-less firm. We try to be quite humble and stay humble. We don't have private offices. You know, we have five studios. No one has a private office. Every one of us early on wants to be a conceptual genius, right? But that's unfortunately not the case, right? There's pressure from the designers, from the owners, from the brands to outdo what you did yesterday.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

With all the projects that you've had, is there one where you just thought this is just going so wrong? I need to get out of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Yeah, last week.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

What happened last week? At OLED, we are proud to partner with brands that don't just talk about change, but are actually shaping it. And that's why we're delighted to be sponsored by Caliber Climate, who create this book, Climate Solutions for High-end interiors. They work closely with architects and designers to create quiet, beautifully integrated air conditioning solutions. Thank you so much for supporting Olyse. Welcome so much to the OLED podcast. It's such a pleasure to have you here, Clint. We're really excited to talk to you and discover more about Blink and your very successful interior design firm. So thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

It's an honor to be here. And uh yeah, looking forward to a very fun podcast.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

Yeah, let's let's make it fun. So you've you've arrived from Bangkok, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

And uh, how long are you in London?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I'm here for a week. We've got a bunch of meetings. Um, you know, I want to also meet with our team here. So Matt and William. Um, just really spend time with making this office uh you know, starting it off right. So, you know, we're we've got a lot of interest in Blink at the moment. So we're just trying to keep the momentum going.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

Okay. And so just to give a bit of an intro to Blink for people that don't know it, you've done some amazing hospitality projects, a lot in Asia, but all around the world, from one and only Six Census to Banyantry, Dubai, right? So some fantastic, amazing luxury projects. And you've been going for 20 years?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Is that 20 years, yeah, it seems like yesterday, but it's it's been a while. It's been a while. It's it's been a great journey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

And you now you've out opened a London office, and this is kind of why you're here to kind of help that set up and momentum.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yeah, right. So we've opened London. Um, London is an important base for us. Uh, we not only believe in in the UK market, but also this serves as a base for our projects in Europe. Uh, we have currently four projects, uh, two in Italy, two in France. And the London student will also serve our projects from India westward, so including uh Africa and including um Middle East, Dubai.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Wow. And how how for me to understand the size of the scale of Blink, like how many people are working for Blink at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 3:31

We've grown to about 120 and we're still growing. I mean, we've got some great people, um, made some key hires here as well. So you know it's things. Exciting times. Uh very exciting and nervous at the same time, right?

SPEAKER_04 3:45

That nervous energy kind of keeps us going.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

It it's it's what feeds us, right? It it's um it's that drive to wake up every morning and say, Oh, today's a different challenge, and yeah, and how do you get through it?

SPEAKER_04 3:55

Yeah. Okay. And um if I so if I just kind of rewind a little bit to your beginning. So you were born in Hawaii, is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah, in the little state of Hawaii.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Wow. Okay. So tell me how how has that experience influenced your work and who you are today?

SPEAKER_01 4:12

I I think it really fueled who I am today. Um, you know, Hawaii is the most isolated islands in the world, inhabited islands in the world, and and I always felt out of place. I always felt lost. Like I really wanted to travel and see the world. And so when I got my first job, you know, it offered me the opportunity to travel, and I began to travel, um, see places, meet people that I've never had the opportunity to before that. And it it just, you know, made me really see the world from a different perspective.

SPEAKER_04 4:45

So but did you like Hawaii?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

I I I love Hawaii, it's still home to me. Um my father would probably kill me for saying this, but but I would never move back. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

To live.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Um, it's a beautiful place. You know, the people's amaz are amazing, the weather's amazing, but I just feel like the world has so much more to offer. And I get really energized by you know traveling to great places and meeting some amazing people along the way.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

And now you're based in Bangkok.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Based in Bangkok, 20 years. Okay. I can't speak a word of Thai. Um, or I secretly tell it to my staff so they can carry on in Thai and I can spend.

SPEAKER_04 5:23

And you really you really well now it's out there, like public knowledge, he that he knows what you're saying. But you could just get by speaking English out there.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Uh uh perfectly, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

I mean, I'm I'm unfortunately very linguistically challenged. So I speak English, I don't speak any Japanese. Um when I go to Japan, it's it's hilarious because my surname's Japanese.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

And so they all assume.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

They all assume I can speak Japanese, but I can't, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

When in your career, like when did you know that design was not a hobby for you, but it was a it was gonna be your life? Like where in your career or your journey did that kind of moment happen?

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Quite quite an early age. I I remember uh growing up and waiting for my mom outside her office, and I was bored. So, you know, back then there was no iPhones, there was no, you know, uh not all this fun stuff we have now. So I drew. I I would sketch and I would sketch the you know, the birds and the trees and that sort of thing. And I realized, oh, this is quite interesting. Um and I remember my guidance council in high school um when I took a test. Um it was either maybe you could be a graphic artist or you could be an architect. And I realized graphic artists are actually poorer than architects, so I'll be an architect. Um, and that one thing led to another.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

So you studied architecture?

SPEAKER_01 6:49

I studied architecture at the University of Hawaii. Um took me a bit longer. I I was, you know, I enjoyed the first few years in college and um got out of my system, then I became more of a serious student. Um yeah, and I got my only job previous to this uh at uh WTEG.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

Wow, okay. And you so architecture is a seven-year degree?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Uh for me it was it was supposed to be five. For me, it was six and a half. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Yeah. So it's an investment.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

It was, yeah, it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

Okay. And would you say because obviously within your project you lead all the creative for Blink, right? And so that covers architecture, interior architecture, interior design. It's quite a vast array of different uh tasks. And is there is there one area now that you you like more than you did before? Is like how's that journey in design across all that different spectrum been for you?

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Well, starting out as an architect, I, you know, initially um felt quite passionate about that part of the business. And it wasn't to the later half of my career that I started doing interiors. Um, and I actually like both almost as equally. I think they can both be challenging in different different ways. Architecture is much more technical in that regard. Um, interiors, you know, you end up dealing with the most minute details. So the ability to work on a project from a very macro scale to a micro scale, I find quite intriguing. But I think what fascinates me more is a journey of you know, the creation of something and to have valuable partnerships with clients, we we call them partners, um, that you take along this journey with you. I think for me, that's the most intriguing part of what I do.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Okay. Is there something that people assume about you as a designer that's just completely wrong?

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I I think people, you know, assume recently that we the firm has a style, and the style would be, I would describe as being more minimalist or simpler, um, you know, sort of uh quiet luxury. Um, but we have been evolving, you know, our designs I've always felt need to respond to people in place. And and a lot of the place that we now work in um do not desire and quiet luxury in that sense. So, you know, they want color, they want patterns, and um, so we've been sort of evolving in that direction, which to some of our old clients I find interesting that the firm firm's uh visual identity has evolved throughout the years.

SPEAKER_04 9:29

Okay. So you would say that you don't really have one aesthetic, you've got flexibility in your design journey.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yeah, I I think we are more about you know adapting to different uh restraints, whether a restraint is you know given by a client or by a brand, um, and that really shapes our vision. But everything sort of goes through a um a modern lens and it's quite refined. Uh there's a lot of editing that goes through our design process.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

And that design process, because you you know you work in so many different countries and you've got all these different influences of culture. Like, do you ever, as as part of that design process, does the external environment really come to play? Because obviously you do a lot of different hotel brands and groups. And is there a uniform approach to it or do you adapt to each culture and geography?

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Uh the process is the same. You know, we treat each project as a one-off.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Um, really, you know, starting off by trying to understand, listen. Listening is is important to us. Um, but after you listen, it's important to then, you know, push the client in a way that you then try to create something that's different. Um, because if you just listen, you end up just sort of regurgitating what he or she is trying to do. But in fairness, they're not trained as designers in most cases. So for them to articulate that they want this or that is quite different, difficult. So we spend a lot of time listening and trying to understand, you know, although they said X, maybe it really means Y, right? And so it takes a lot of experience to get to that point. And I think um, you know, we've got some great examples of that of what we've done in the past, too.

SPEAKER_04 11:14

And have there been moments when you've had real disagreements with the clients? And if so, like how how do you get them to a place where you either are both comfortable or you feel like you've won and you've taken them to the direction you want? Like how how do you handle that with the client?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

We we disagree all the time, actually. And and it's it's not a it's never been about uh imposing an idea over a client. It it's really been about trying to understand wow, why do they want this and not that? Um as opposed to saying, well, sorry, but I disagree with you, and uh, you know, you end up fighting and it ruins the relationship. So it's been about bridging that gap and understanding where they're coming from. I I could just try and think in my head where, you know, just recently, great example of a project where the owner um initially thought they wanted something very different. Um, but in the end it ended up being similar to what they currently have, but with a twist. Um, but you you don't design is such a grave process that you don't, you know, there's no set formula to get to a decision point. You have to sort of uh market, you have to go through that um, you know, sort of the checks and um you end up going left and right, but eventually you get to where you want to be.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

Yeah, it's a journey, right? It's a journey. And you can't know it all from the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

No.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

It's a discovery.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

But that emotional storytelling is a really key part of your design, and you can see that in a lot of your spaces. How do you bring that to life? How do you bring the emotion of a space to life?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

I always try to imagine, you know, what it would be like as a guest going through there, um, knowing that most guests are not design trained again, right? So for them, whether the you know, the wall is white or green, they don't really care as long as it feels um like a wonderful moment. So it's really about setting the stage for the experience, yeah, um, which makes memories, which creates memories for guests, and this hopefully gets them to return time and time again.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

And travel, you know, it's a big part of your life. Like you said, you know, being in Hawaii, a bit insular, and you wanted to see the world. And you've been to many different places. Is there a is there a country or a place that really you felt deeply and kind of changed you or really had that, you know, point of difference for you?

SPEAKER_01 13:39

I would say it would be Thailand, right? Bangkok. This is where I've I've chosen to to live the last 20 years. And um, I was first inspired by the very creative nature of Thais and the culture. Um, and there's just the warmth there. So I would say that's sort of where my heart resides and goes back and feels very comfortable.

SPEAKER_04 14:01

But creative, like for people that have not been to Thailand, what do you mean by that creative nature? Like describe that what that means to you.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Uh they're very artistic. Um, you know, they're very good with their hands. Uh I I think it's um amazing that most of my staff they can draw like the Dickens. I mean, they amazing artists. Um and if you just give them a little guidance and and help them see the world, um, they've become just the most, you know, creative people that we've could ever imagine. Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

So kind of that heritage of craftsmanship, you feel like that's very much in the culture of the people and bringing that out is is something that you enjoy?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

More so the ability to see things that haven't hasn't been seen before. Okay. Um, you know, a good example, we're doing a six senses in Loire Valley. Uh most of the team have never been to France before. But for them to imagine what France could look like, um, so we're, you know, we're not we're not doing uh, you know, a copy version of something that already exists in France. It's more of an interpretation of what we think France could be like. Uh it's amazing. You know, you you can't, and I've shown this to the client who is French. Um, you know, they are amazed because they themselves can't imagine that a firm that you know does not have a presence in France could imagine something so French, right?

SPEAKER_04 15:29

Wow. But I guess it's it's French through a different lens as well, which is what was very probably very intriguing about.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Which is very much a characteristic of our work, whether it's in India. Uh I was just in India last week in a place called Corella, um, way down south.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah, a lot of backwaters and my first time there. Um, but one thing the clients said was they like the way that we reinterpreted um what made what makes Corolla special. And that's really says a lot about the firm and and how people view us, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:03

And what does make Corella special?

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Uh it's got a great history. Um, and what I didn't realize um about this part of Kerala Um is that it's it's basically surrounded by nature. You know, there's birds and um there's things in the water that might bite you, but um to bring that part of Kerala, which doesn't exist traditionally in design, um, and then to reinterpret the traditional architecture, there's some wonderful resort we visited, there's some wonderful um metalwork on doors and knobs and that sort of thing, and and references references to um you know the religion, and so it's about reinterpreting all of that to create something that's just very different.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

And is it a hotel project that you're working on?

SPEAKER_01 16:53

It's a resort, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

And when's that going to be done?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Uh I think in two years. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 17:00

Yeah, because these these projects do take some time.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

They do take a while, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:03

So Blink's been going for 20 years. You're a creative. Where did that journey kind of start from being a creative and then turning into like a big global business and taking it to that next level of business leadership? Like talk talk me through that and and how you kind of cope with that transition.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

I think it started way back when, when I first began, when I when I left uh university and I worked for WTG. I had the fortune of um working under Don Goo, the G in WTG. And he was an amazing businessman. Um and from there I was inspired to read books about businesses. And um, I realized that to be successful, you it wasn't just about being a good architect. It was more so about understanding the business of architecture, the business of design. So I, you know, made sure I was a sponge and I learned everything at my old company. Um and I think that's really where the credit should be given.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

And what what for you, what made Dawn a good leader and a businessman?

SPEAKER_01 18:11

He would always force me to try and see the big picture, um, but then focus on the little details. Uh kind of zoom out, zoom in. Yeah. You know, he had a wonderful ability to see things that weren't even envisioned, you know, things that were years ahead. Um, or to question why things are the way they are today, um, in order to reframe your mind to do things different, right? Um, and from him I I just learned and respected so much about how he shaped that company's business and it inspired me to really, you know, to branch out on my own.

SPEAKER_04 18:52

So you always had this big vision of it being a really big company?

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Because No, not at all.

SPEAKER_04 18:56

No. Okay. So what was your vision?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Uh I would live happily in Bangkok and have a firm of maybe 10 people, 12 people. Um I I didn't imagine that you know the company would be the size it is today or or be able to do projects that we we're doing currently.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

Okay. That's amazing then. Because sometimes sometimes people are very, very focused that they want it big and everything, and then like you've grown very organically.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

And I guess in that journey, there must have been a moment where you you you you grew it globally. So can you talk me through that? And and those challenges of going from smaller to larger and and how that how you coped with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Uh it's it happened organically. I I always feel that we meet people in life for a certain reason. And I've been fortunate to meet uh, you know, other business people that that have really helped to shape my my career. Um, you know, the latest person would be Renji, who manages a company. So he's been with us now for almost 10 years. So very good, um solid um fair business man. Um so he does all the unfun stuff. Um and he lets me do all the fun things. So, but you know, we we get along like big brothers. We, you know, we squabble if we have to, but we we love hanging out and we're like best of friends, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Yeah. Because I think I think, you know, a lot of like the business side of design is a huge part of the success of a business, right? Of course. And I I think that a lot of the designers that we talk to, you know, they they're the creatives, they they enjoy, like you said, the fun stuff, the creative stuff, and and the business side can really drag them down either because they don't have the skill sets or they don't understand it or they're not trained on it. So you feel like partnering with somebody that has perhaps those other skill sets and maybe they think that's the fun stuff and you're doing the boring stuff, like it's a different perspective. Do you think that's what's helped you be successful, having that balance of skills?

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, Rengi also um, well the firm in general, I mean, we we don't it's an ego-less firm, you know. We we try to be quite humble and stay humble. Um, and success is, you know, a group thing, and and a win is a group thing and a loss is a group thing, right? We don't we don't like um hierarchy and hierarchy. We we don't like um I I remember uh working at Disney where um Marty Scolar, who was my big, big boss at the time, he was he scolded someone um because they kept saying the word I. Um and he said, You never use that word around here. You use it again and you're fired. Um and we for the most part practice that we don't I I hardly ever say I, it's mostly we, um, even though it's just from my perspective, it it's just you know how we position the company that we it's about a group of like minded individuals like love working together, right?

SPEAKER_04 21:58

But that is the culture you've created. Yeah right that you know simple things like language, I think they have a big impact in the way people think and behave. And now you have this global business. How how do you keep the culture of what may blink blink and how do you keep that true to its nature on a global scale?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

By trying to be as open about myself and um to be accessible. You know, I I we in all the the offices, we don't have private offices. You know, we have five studios, no one has a private office.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Okay. So it's all open.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

It's all open. Yeah. Um, you know, for as a business, uh, we run it very open. Um, you know, nothing is hidden, everything is, you know, for almost anything anyone can see. Um, and I think that brings a sense of uh calm with the staff and with the leaders as well.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

So the transparency is important for you.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Very transparent.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

You've got a lot of people in the company with young designers coming through graduation. What do you see in them that's perhaps different from what you experience and what do you like about it? And where do you see the challenges are with the next generation of designers coming up?

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah, I mean I the older I get, I I can see the gaps between between me and the youngest person. But what's interesting nowadays is that, you know, this generation, um, they are used to having things change quickly. So, you know, in the old days, you would look at a CV, and if the person had more than three job changes in their career, you would scratch your head and say, no, this person's uh not stable. Um but nowadays that's not true, right? It's kind of the opposite. It's the opposite.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

Why would you stay there for so long? Like, what's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Right. Um, so we've adapted to that. You know, we make it a point to have bi-yearly reviews, um, which then comes with promotions, particularly with the junior staff, the younger levels, where they need that, you know, validation that they're they're on the right track and yeah, encouragement. Encouragement. Um, we give them tips and you know, um suggestions on how to get better, but it's about sort of fast tracking their early growth in their careers so they can see where they're headed. What we started to do recently is to change um to understand our differences in a career path in a designer, um, a path that's more design conceptually driven, and a path that's more design manager driven.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Um, because I think everyone of us early on wants to be a conceptual, conceptual genius, right? Um, but that's unfortunately not the case, right? But it doesn't mean that even though you're not a conceptual guru, that you don't have value in a company. So we try to separate that and give them guidance and help those in both paths grow.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

And that's what's working for you.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

It's working, yeah. Otherwise, in in the past, when someone realized that they weren't good at a you know creating a concept, they would leave because they want to find that happiness elsewhere. But if you sit down with them and say, Well, we do think you've got an amazing career with us, but this is the different path, they're normally okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

So it's kind of like redirecting them aligned with skill sets and career paths and having those regular conversations.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 25:35

That really helps.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 25:37

What does luxury mean for you today? And how would you define it?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah. I think luxury to me is is about personalization.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Um, in the sense that what I might find luxurious, someone else may not. Um, and I think with so many choices that we have today, it's it's sort of evolved to this point where a definition of luxury is not singular. I think it's um means different things to different people, and and we all have you know what we want and um what we'd like to have, and it's just about getting access to it.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

And do you do you think it's changed over the years, or do you kind of still hold that true to, you know, if you look back at yourself 10 years ago, would you have thought the same thing?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

No, I I I think luxury is constantly changing, or the definition of luxury is constantly changing. Um, we like to think we're more about cultural luxury.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Okay, and what is that?

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Cultural luxury is about understanding what makes a culture or a place special, um, and then using that differences to create something unique as opposed to quite luxury, which says everything needs to be understated. So cultural luxury adapts to the place that it exists in.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

Bringing in those influences to make it unique.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Which what makes it special, right? Okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Do you find clients are braver now or more restrained? Like how how do you view them?

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Very brave.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Okay, brave clients.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

To the point where it it's it can be quite uh daunting, right? Because everyone wants to do something better than what's been done. Yeah. I I'm staying at the Dishin, um, and I remember staying there I I guess about eight years ago, 10 years ago. Um, and I thought it was amazing. Um, and I thought the firm that did it is also amazing. And but going back there and staying there on this trip, I realized, wow, it's really interesting how this firm and the brand, um, the addition brand, the design firm that did it, they've come so far since then. So it shows me that every firm, every client wants to get better, do better than what they did yesterday.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

Yeah. And then there's pressure in order to achieve that, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:59

There's pressure from you know, from the designers, from the owners, from the brands to outdo what you did yesterday, right?

SPEAKER_04 28:07

But it's a good challenge, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

It's a good challenge. I mean, it makes every project um quite um unique in that regard because you always have to come up with something that's better than what you did yesterday, right? It's it's uh, but then that's life as a designer, right? You you're sort of at least You're never done, right? You're never done. And if someone asks me what's my favorite project, I always say the next one.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

Um whatever that might be.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Whatever it might be, because it's always about the next journey and and learning from what you did before, right? And how to make it better.

SPEAKER_04 28:40

With all the projects that you've had, is there one where you've just thought this is just going so wrong, I need to get out of it, or have you managed to always come to some kind of path where you see the light? Like it has has have you ever had an experience like that?

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Yeah, last week.

unknown 28:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

What happened last week?

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Uh yeah, last week I, you know, we we we've worked on a project for uh for a while. Um, you know, you there's certain projects where the stars just don't align, you know, whether it's the brand or the architect in this case, um, the owner. If everyone doesn't share the same vision, it's just a nightmare to get to a point where everyone feels happy. Um and yeah, I'm you know, it it's frustrating. And it's it's more frustrating for young designers who really have passion out of winning clients over, right, through through design. So it it's been a tough journey on that project. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

And do you see the light? Or is it darkness for you right?

SPEAKER_01 29:46

No, the light came. Um so we're no longer in the project. Um but it's a good thing. Yeah, it's it's it's fine.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

And how do you deal with like building a business like you've done and and working on such a global scale? How do you cope with those challenges? Because in in them in those moments, I think it, and especially when it's the first time you're having it, you see, you feel like you know the ceilings caving in on you. Like, how do you deal with it? How do you cope with it emotionally, physically, mentally? Like, how do you get over these things?

SPEAKER_01 30:15

My best friend, uh, his name is Negroni.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

No. Um, it's it's uh uh I I guess it's a tri it's a good thing that I uh can easily shrug off um bad moments and move on. So it's it's really about trying to understand what went wrong and not really put the pressure back on yourself to say, I really screwed up. Um, you know, that's really a bad thing. But try to understand, all right, next time I'll do this. Just learning from those mistakes.

SPEAKER_04 30:48

And maybe not taking it so to heart and personally.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Um I I don't I I do. Uh I I think if I said I didn't, that would not be right. But I do, but I quickly try to move on and and learn from what went wrong.

SPEAKER_04 31:03

But like but how do you move on? Because I think people get really stuck here sometimes, like when they've made a mistake or they feel bad about it, or they've got this regret. And and like you said, it's very hard just to not feel that because we're human and and we take responsibility, right? But then it's that moving on that's the magic because that takes you forward. So, what advice do you give people? Like, how can you say, okay, messed up, got to get over it, got to move forward? Like, how do you get to that step quickly? Because you said you do it fast.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

It's it's always been about winning the next best project, right? And winning that next client over and taking that client on that journey. And, you know, to for the firm to get to where it is today, we've made a lot of mistakes, right? And but it's always been about learning from those mistakes. So, you know, the wins we are grateful for, but we're probably more thankful for the losses, right? And and losing a project that was so valuable. And and how do you then reposition or rethink what you did before in a different way? So it's always about looking for that next opportunity to do something amazing.

SPEAKER_04 32:09

And that shared experience of okay, you're saying we have to learn from our mistakes. How do you share it across the company? Like you you said you guys are very transparent. Is is there a process in place for you to do that, or is it just naturally done? Like, how how do you share it?

SPEAKER_01 32:23

I don't shout. You know, I I my my leadership style is more um like a whisperer. Um so I'll plant a seed um with few people and that sort of starts the the ball in motion. But it's it's not about me standing on a soapbox and you know yelling at people, it's more about um quiet encouragement, yeah, I would say, and and using that method of of swaying people to you know see things the way that I think they should be seen.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

Okay. And what frustrates you about the industry today?

SPEAKER_01 33:01

I think what frustrates me is that um oftentimes designers view each other as the competition. And I think there lacks a there is a lack of camaraderie that we can all it's okay for all of us to succeed, right? So my view has always been we suc. I'm I'm happy to help my my so-called enemy out, right? And for me, there are no enemies, um, except the client that doesn't pay the bill, probably. But it's about you know trying to build this camaraderie across all companies that you know, we are all in together and let's have fun and let's make great projects and support each other. Support each other, you know, and not you know, steal a crow a client or a project or staff, but just try to work for something better for the entire industry.

SPEAKER_04 33:54

Yeah. I feel like a lot of people have said that and also said that in some areas it's improving. So I think like there's a from what I can see, especially in the community in London, I feel like this industry is now, like you said, realizing there's space for everybody we can win together. Would you is that how you feel about the industry globally, or is that in Asia, or is that in the is that your experience in London? Like, or is that just a general feeling you have?

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Um general feeling across the different areas that we work in, but you know, it starts with small steps, and I can only, you know, we can only do so much from from our perspective. So, you know, I always reach out to people that I admire their work um and just try to be friends, right? And and you know, very surprisingly, it they've always replied very positively. So it's not like you know, naturally designers are, you know, hate each other. But um, I think it's there's this hesitation to say, yeah, let's be friends. Oh, I love your work, by the way. Oh, great. You know, and you go to go to their studio, go to their country, and you hang out, right? You understand what they're doing and um trade secrets, so to speak, and you get along and you have a good time.

SPEAKER_04 35:07

Tell me about a wish to remember. Tell me how that happened, where that came from, and and what it means to you.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Um A Wish to Remember was is a program that we created after Kate McMillan, uh, who was British. Um, worked in a studio in in Singapore. Amazing human being. Um she she didn't know how good she was. Um and she, you know, she was as beautiful inside as she was outside. I think it's a good way to summarize her. Um, and she just had this real passion for travel.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Um, and this really kid-like expression on her face. I can picture it in my mind now, where she would just, you know, enjoy the littlest of traveling. Um, I remember being in Turkey with her, and she loved Turkish food and and just the simplest dishes from Turkey. Um, and it was things like that that um you know really stuck with me. So she passed away at a young age. Um, I'm sorry. Yeah, it was quite a big loss, but we decided to to remember her um through this award. Um, so we give it out at least twice a year. Um we've changed the format on how we give it out, but it essentially awards someone within the firm. Um, anyone can apply from um direct below director level. So you can apply for the travel award, um, and you get to go where you think you'd want to go. Um, the latest recipient, he's going to Bali um on a yoga retreat.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

Okay. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Um, yeah, tough, tough for him. Um, he's staying at you know, the Alila of Uluwatu, the um banyan tree in Ubud, and um and a yoga camp. And it's really about you know changing, try to change people's perspectives and travel. It's hard to design something that you've never experienced before, right? So to ask our staff to design a luxury hotel, um, they've never stayed in, it's just mind-boggling, right? Um the last recipient, uh, she went to Japan. Um, it's quite cute. She took her father with her. Uh, she's quite young, but her father went with her. They stayed at the Six Census. Um, they both loved it. Um, and it's always been about giving back, right? About creating opportunities for people, um, opportunities that they may have not had had otherwise. So it's a great thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

So there's award within the company twice a year, and to kind of honor Kate in her memory of how she loved to travel. And it's giving access and rewarding your your employees so they can pick where they go and experience that, you know, amazing trip that perhaps they wouldn't have necessarily had.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Yeah, it's it's part of it. And it's part of what, you know, how much investment that we do with our staff. Um, we often encourage our directors to take the younger staff with them on on trips. So sometimes you may see the director with a junior staff and um that the client's not paying for, but we are. But it's it's about giving them access to, you know, to do a better job and to experience different things.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

That's really beautiful though. I don't I haven't heard of many companies that do something like that.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Yeah, it and it's paid back in in you know no time, right? I mean, they they one, it just boosts morale, you know, they they just really try hard and to do um things that are beyond their job description, right? Or what we ask, where they just understand that, well, maybe I'll get to go here, maybe not, but um at least I really go to try to make a difference.

SPEAKER_04 39:10

Yeah. And the culture you've created, and you've kind of given some tips of how you've done that. I mean, but when you're managing or guess leading so many people across the world, like do you is are there moments where you bring everyone together? Like, do you do this or like do you have any kind of activations like that?

SPEAKER_01 39:28

We we do. Um at a management level, we have a manner management retreat. Um, we call it Tomorrowland. Um Tomorrowland. Yeah. Um it's about you know thinking about what the firm can be like in the future.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Um, so we bring our leaders together once a year. Um, but as a company, there's always a you know, a few times a year that everyone sort of gathers, and whether it's in in um Bangkok or Singapore, we fly the other people down from Dubai, across from Dubai or from London. Um, because the company is really about its people, and at the core of it is culture, and our culture is extremely important to us. So it's about taking care of people, right? And I always feel like it's about treating people like you'd want to be treated. Um, and that's the way I I think um a firm should be run.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

Fantastic. A lot of the projects that you do, we discussed this a little bit before, but it's about designing for for the next generation. Yeah. So talk to me about that. Like, is that is that because you're doing residential projects or is that because families are running these hotels? Or tell me tell me what that means to you.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

A lot of our clients um are high net worth families um where they've made money in one business sector, normally not hotels, um, then they decide they want to get into hotels. So it's that generation that's traveled overseas, um, studied overseas, uh, you know, lived or, you know, love, you know, these luxury hotels that they stay in, and now they want to build something for themselves. So it's about embracing those um owners. You know, they're they're often now they're younger than me, um, and trying to understand what they really want and trying to make that a reality.

SPEAKER_04 41:27

Okay. And is it challenging?

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Uh it all the time. Um, because there's no there's no set um rule for it.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

There's no rule.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

You know, you have to take them on this journey, right? And it's understanding it is trying to get out of them what they really want. Um as I said before, it's you know, it's it's very difficult for them to describe in words what they're thinking about what they're thinking. Um, it's more about an emotion that they're trying to get, right?

SPEAKER_04 41:56

So understanding people and having those relationships is a key factor in being a successful designer.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

That's like a part-time job, right? I mean, it it's uh you end up being a psychiatrist, you you end up listening to them a lot of therapy sessions. Um, I mean, uh you sort of learn about this um what a client really wants just through conversations, not in a meeting. Um like in in my on my trip to Kerala, um, it was as we were walking to the car where I learned um what his chairman's vision was for the project, right? And how important it was. But it didn't come up in a meeting, it was just a casual, um, oh, by the way, I would like you to know the most important nugget of truth. And I had to tell my director, oh, this is what is going on. But it it took a while for that person to share that information. It only got to that point after a day of being together, right? So you have to build that relationship in order to get information that you wouldn't other otherwise would have gotten as soon as you did at that point.

SPEAKER_04 43:04

Yeah. A lot of designers have got different approaches to this. And it's it's this the blurring of boundaries, right? Because, like you said, you have to build the trust, the relationship. It takes time. And then you get the truth, and then you get the um, you know, the ability to really find out what those desires are. But how do you kind of keep it professional and not blur those boundaries where you feel like it's become personal, or does it become personal, and then you've got great friends out of these relationships? Yeah. So how how what's your approach to it?

SPEAKER_01 43:37

For me, it's always been harder to keep things very professional. Um, because you don't really get to understand the person. Um, and I think for me, once I understand that person, um, I'm able to we're able to guess more what they want, right? Yeah. Um, in terms of their project. Um You know, like tomorrow night I have dinner with a former client. Um, we last worked on a project together, I think 10 years ago, but we're still friends. And he just happened to be move moving to London, so that's why I'm having dinner with him. But um I have no boundaries in that regard. It's it's for me, the more personal the better. I I just feel at times unfortunate that I don't have that much time to give to all the clients.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

Um because if you did have more time, you'd definitely be giving it to build that relationship.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

I would, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:34

And do you but when you cross that boundary into friendship, because that's what what happens, then if you have to discuss money or something goes wrong, does how do you cope with that? Like is it difficult?

SPEAKER_01 44:46

That's Renji's job.

SPEAKER_04 44:47

No, uh you call him help, Ren, get on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Uh no, it's it becomes easier. Yeah, does it okay? Because you you know how to say it to him. Um and he doesn't or she doesn't take it personal. When you don't have the relationship, it becomes more tricky to ask for money payment um as opposed to a friend relationship where you know they automatically are more understanding, right? They they understand, okay, my Clint's my friend, I I need to make sure he gets paid as an example. Um, as opposed to a very business relationship.

SPEAKER_04 45:29

Okay, so you see it that way.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:32

And have there have there been moments when you've lost a friendship because of a fallout with money over a project, and how has that ever happened?

SPEAKER_01 45:39

No, no, no, okay. Yeah, and I I but I maybe that's just me. I I I feel it's very um much a waste of energy to hate people um and to not be friends. So eventually, I mean, I'll try to make up with somebody somehow. Um, because it's just quite tiring to hold any negative emotion, just like let it go. It's quite draining. It is draining, it is.

SPEAKER_04 46:08

And I think the ego can get in the way so much of actually finding that peace.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:14

You know. So you've never felt like because you've become friendly with someone, they've taken advantage of that. And I think another designer I was talking to, she was like, if you don't have boundaries, they keep asking for things extras and you feel obliged. Whereas if there's a process in place, it's clear. Whereas I see you're coming at it from quite a different point of view.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

I I I mean, definitely I've, you know, I I I know I've been asked to do things that um probably were not um shouldn't have been possible if we weren't friends, but I I I guess for me it's I have I feel I have quite quite a high amount of empathy. So I will I don't necessarily draw the line. Um I may push it off, but I won't necessarily say no.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

Okay. And you feel like that served you well.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Yeah. Because again, it it's how I, you know, I like treating people the way I would want to be treated. So um, yeah, I, you know, I don't normally ask for favors, and if I do, it means it really I really need a favor. Um and I try to treat people that same way, right? So um if someone wants help also, I'll I'll help them. Um, you know, whether we are competitors or not, or clients, it just um, yeah, yeah. I mean, I I have a friend, I think we're still friends. Um he owes us some money, but um, he was doing something in in the US and he asked for some help. And um I I didn't want to burden my I mean our team, so I I did it myself and he was happy for it, and you know, I still keep in touch with him.

SPEAKER_04 48:02

Yeah. And what does the future look like for Blink?

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Uh what do you hope to achieve?

SPEAKER_04 48:08

I mean, you've achieved so much already, but what is your vision?

SPEAKER_01 48:11

I think the the vision now is to stay where we are, and if if not to go higher in terms of projects, and um but it's always been about discovering new places. Um that's very much in our brand DNA. Um so from this part of the world, I I you know I'm very bullish about um exploring um and working in other parts of Europe, um uh Africa. Africa really interests us, um, North Africa, um, you know, Tanzania, that those sort of areas. So it's it's just this, you know, to continue to be on journeys with um some amazing clients and brands.

SPEAKER_04 48:54

So if you could pick a country where you've never worked and you really want to work, what would that country be?

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Morocco.

SPEAKER_04 48:59

Okay. That's on the bucket list for project.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

Putting it out there.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Putting it out there, any clients.

unknown 49:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Um, I I find it fascinating, sort of this uh crossroads of of um, you know, the sort of the French aspect of it, but also the the Middle Eastern aspect of it. And um, and it's just uh I think it has such a rich culture and history, yeah, and history that that it um be an amazing place to to be able to learn more about.

SPEAKER_04 49:29

Yeah, it's fascinating and the geography is beautiful as well.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:33

Okay, well, good luck with that.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Let's see.

SPEAKER_04 49:35

On our next podcast, maybe we'll be talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Morocco, yes.

SPEAKER_04 49:39

Morocco. All right, thank you, Clint, for being here.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Uh thank you.

SPEAKER_04 49:42

We really appreciate your time, and it's been amazing talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

My pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

Thank you.