Ep. 9 Restoring Homes, Expanding Opportunity with Lucas McNatt

In this episode of Housing Matters, we sit down with Lucas McNatt, Development Specialist at The Housing Trust, to talk about the organization’s Rehab Program. Lucas shares what the program is designed to do, lessons learned during its first year, and how it helps improve homes and housing opportunities in Los Alamos, New Mexico. We also discuss what’s next for the program and why housing matters to him.

To Learn more: https://www.housingtrustonline.org/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is Housing Matters, the Housing Trust podcast, where we share stories and insights about affordable housing and making homeownership a reality. I am your host, Roman Tiger Abeta. Welcome to another episode of Housing Matters. In this episode, we'll talk with Lucas, a development specialist with the Housing Trust, and learn more about a new service that the Housing Trust is currently offering. Lucas, welcome to the podcast. Hey, thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. So, Lucas, you look kind of young. Do you listen to podcasts? Yeah, all the time, almost every day. Tell us what kind of podcast you listen to first, and then we'll see what kind of guests you'll be on this one.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Oh man, let's see. Kind of a mix of everything. I have like a uh I have a Christian podcast I listen to every Sunday. Uh love comedians, I love stand-up comedy. So I listen to those guys like throughout the week. The two bears, Bad Friends, and then um, I think the one on Friday. If you guys know who Shane Gillis is, man, he's hilarious. I don't know. Is he a comedian? Yeah, super popular right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Nice. Well, this isn't a comedy podcast. This is a podcast about housing. So we'll try to stick to to housing and what you do for the housing trust. How long have you been with the housing trust, Lucas? Um, 10 months. 10 months, so it's been fairly new.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. New to me. Uh I am familiar with the with the category though of housing in general because I was a real estate agent back in Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Nice. How long were you a real estate agent?

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Um that that was about a year. I was also teaching on the side as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Oh, okay, because you I remember you when you went to Capitol High. You're a Capitol High football player like myself. But uh but but yeah, you you're you're a really good football player. You played football in college, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah, I did. I played for New Mexico Military Institute. Um, that is a junior college. After that, I transferred to Western New Mexico University.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Okay, and then you graduated from there and then started teaching and then got your real estate license.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah, yeah, it was super fun. I got my associate's degree at New Mexico Military when I was at Western New Mexico. Something I'm kind of proud of myself was I was the first ever graduate to have a bachelor's degree in political science. Oh, really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

They didn't offer that degree down there before?

SPEAKER_01 2:25

No. Uh when I went, I was the only student in the class. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

That's that's awesome. So you graduated, then you moved to Oklahoma? Yes, sir. Why Oklahoma?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Um, I actually have family up there in Oklahoma. My father is originally from there, and he wanted he kind of wanted to be closer to the roots. So I went out there, you know. Uh if you don't try, then you'll never know. Yeah. So I figured, you know, new culture, new experience, figured it'd be it would benefit me.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Okay. So you go to Oklahoma and then you get your realtor's license when you're there. And then your other roots, your other half of your roots, like I said, you're a graduate from Capital, which is in Santa Fe. You came back to Santa Fe and you're working for the housing trust now. Correct, correct. And what do you do for the housing trust?

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Uh for the housing trust specifically, I run the home renewal program for Los Alamos County.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Okay. Los Alamos is north of Santa Fe. Talking about the Los Alamos where they invented the atomic bomb, right? If you've seen Oppenheimer the last couple of years, that Los Alamos. Yes, correct. Okay. And so it's a home rehabilitation program that Los Alamos offers to uh well, I'm sure a lot of these homes that were built during World War II or while they're building the H-Bomb Age now, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

The homes and then they're still around, surprisingly. Really? Yeah. Um what they did around the late 40s, early 50s is they did a lot of town homes within the area. Okay. Um, they are how could I best describe the the image of what they look like? If you picture two trailers, modular trailers stacked on top of each other and then split it down the middle. That's what about I would say 40% of the homes look like in Los Alamos.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Well, it makes sense because World War II is happening. They're trying to invent the atomic bomb. You need a quick housing for people. They built the whole town in the 40s.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, super quick housing development, um, anything to at least house the employees for the time that they were there.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Okay, and now these houses are aging, and the county of Los Alamos has a program that helps people who own these homes that need to remodel.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yes, absolutely. And it is a dire need for sure. Um, not and then not to say that all homes look like that that I'm working on, but that is a vast majority for sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

And so does Los Alamos provide the funding or where does the funding come from to rehab the homes?

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah, absolutely. Uh we basically act as a third party. Okay. Um, to just in case there's any conflict of interest or anything like that. Uh, we are the third party that are carrying out these contracts, and Los Alamos is paying for it, and it is up to $200,000 a year of what we are able to spend on housing. Okay. And that, you know, if you sum it up for the most part, our goal is to get 10 houses within a year.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Okay, so so 200,000 divided by 10 is 20,000. So you'll do 20,000 worth of improvements to somebody's house, or even can you go higher than 20,000?

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah. So the maximum budget is 45,000.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Okay. So, like if I have an older house in Los Alamos and I need, say, windows, or maybe even uh a water heater replaced, or I'm aging and maybe want to add a ramp to get rid of my stairs, you can do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yeah, quite honestly, everything that you listed off as an example is something I've done.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

And do you have to qualify? Do you have to make is there income limits or absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

So uh it's moderate to low income based. Okay. Um credit score as well, um, within the 640 credit range. So you don't have to have exemplary credit. Okay. You just have to show that you know you're paying your debts off. Okay. Um the average income in Los Alamos, as well as the cost of living in Los Alamos, it's pretty high right now. Right. Um, and it has been for the last few years. Uh, so you can make $100,000 a year, be a single person, and chances are you might still qualify because it's area of median income, and that's much higher in Los Alamos than it's probably the highest in the state, right? I would say the highest, and Santa Fe's right behind it.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Okay. And so an individual will call you, they say, I heard about your program, I need to do repairs to my house. Is it a loan that they give and then they have to pay back, or how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Yeah, so the loan itself is a non-amortiz that lasts between 10 to 15 years, depending on the price of the cost of the renewal. Okay. Um, so each individual they will get that loan written in a mortgage and it will be sent to the county.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Okay, and it will be filed, and there'll be a mortgage on the property.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Yeah, they'll be the holder of that loan, not us, but we will just execute it. And then with that being said, the great thing about it is the max loan interest amount is 1.5%.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

So these are low interest loans too. And right now it's like the as the date of this podcast, mortgages are like six percent, seven percent, yeah, even higher. Yeah, it's one one and a half percent.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah, and that's the max.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

There's people that could go for zero percent interest on this. So so you said there are that some are non-amortizing. Are there some that are amortizing where they actually pay monthly payments?

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Or is it not at all? This is this is a one and done deal. Uh, you don't have to pay monthly. The the only catch is if you decided to sell it before that period ran out.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Okay. Uh, the 10-year or the 15 year. And then that's what the 1.5% interest gets tacked on if you decide to do that.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Yep. If you use your house for an asset in any way, yeah, maybe you rent it out, maybe you put a business through the house, or maybe you sold the house before that time frame, then that's when we would require payment.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Okay, but that payment goes back to Los Alamos County.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Correct.

unknown 8:33

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

And and so you all, as part of this job too, you also you act like a project manager, right? You're the third party that I would imagine that you might have older clients that maybe don't know anything about how to repair their house or even how to deal with a contractor. You'll do that for them.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yes, absolutely. The only thing I need from them is the paperwork that's listed on the application, which would uh I suppose that would include you know tax forms, paycheck history, making sure that you're in good graces with paying your bills with the county of Los Alamos. Okay. Um, I only request the paperwork that's listed on the application. And uh once the client does that, I literally handle the rest.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

I don't so you'll go and find a contractor for them and you'll select a contractor and you'll go from you'll oversee the project from the beginning to the very end.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Correct. Yeah, and I'll try my best to get at least three contractors to look at the home, yeah, get the estimate and send me a bid. And if the client by chance, you know, has a preference of contractor, that's where they could come in and say, hey, I like this guy or the other guy rubbed me wrong a little bit. I think he stiffened me on something. In the past. Yes, in the past. But um, yeah, I I will take their input and their opinions into consideration. And um, other than that, I I really handle the rest.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Wow. So so that that must be a relief for some clients to not have to worry about again, where some people don't even know where to start when they've got to do a remodel or who to talk to, or and so you'll do all that for them.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah. Um, and then I just want to clarify on the remodel, it's it's essential need based. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Um so it's not just I want to add some cool looking tile to my kitchen.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah, I'm not gonna give you like an open concept, you know. Uh you're not gonna say here's a blank check or what do you want to what do you want to do with your house? It's gonna be, you know, solely foundational, um, structural and emergency implied.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Okay, so uh give us an example uh like of an emergency implied okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

So as you said earlier, aging if you're aging and you need ramps, or maybe you have a two-story house, you need a electric chair to get upstairs. Yeah. So we'll look at options for anything like that. Um, also other emergencies could be uh asbestos or lead paint in your oh, that's a good one because in the 40s and 50s, they use lead paint and asbestos in some cases. Yes. And we don't necessarily have to work on those if our project isn't going to tamper.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Uh okay, because yeah, and because sometimes what'll happen, it's fine as long as you don't punch a hole in the wall and then all of a sudden it gets exposed. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yes, but it is it's always, you know, uh important to note when we are working with them. Hey, you know, we are fixing your water heater, but I just want you to know this house was built in 52. Yes. So that tells me there's a 99% chance there's lead in your walls. Wow. And I could say, hey, I can fix it for you, but we might not do the water heater.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Because you're limited at 40 yeah, solely based on the budget.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah. But uh a lot of times, you know, if you if it's not activated, if we don't have to tamper with it in any way, then they're they are fine in that home.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

And so you said you you've you've been in your role for how long again with the housing trust? This is the 10th month. And it's and uh you were hired specifically to implement this program for the housing trust. That is correct. Yeah, how how many clients have you well, how many projects have you done sp in these last 10 months?

SPEAKER_01 12:14

We are on our fourth project.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Wow. So you're already uh your fourth remodel.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah, yeah. And it's uh it's pretty interesting because we're on our fourth remodel. I had mentioned where our goal was 10, and we are already at over $105,000. Really?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah, and you're at you have to you have so they're averaging more than $20,000 a remodel. Yeah, yeah. Closer to the 40 or 45 that you have the limit on.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yes, yeah. Some people have some serious needs. So um we if they are okay with that loan amount, yeah, then we we are okay with executing it.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Because that's gonna be that's gonna become a liability or a mortgage on their their title. Yeah. So that's why you have to make sure they're okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, I'm not gonna uh try to spend the max budget every time, but if they are truly okay with uh the price tag on that loan, then uh I feel comfortable executing it.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

And how how many calls do you get from people in Los Alamos? Because yeah, you have four clients, but I'm sure you've had more calls or inquiries about the program.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah, uh since we mailed out brochures, which was a great, great uh advertising uh scheme that we did, it was uh since we started actually mailing out to with attachments to the utility bill, uh it started at like at least two calls a week. I would get at least two calls a week, whether they qualified or not, or whether they just wanted to know what it was. Um yeah, so it's slowed down now since I've I have actually answered many, many calls, right? But uh I am still getting calls at least once a week.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

And so you're fairly again new in the role, but what have you what have you learned in this short period of time about this program?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Um everyone has a need. Yeah. Everyone has a need. And uh it needs to be addressed in some way or another. Um even if they don't qualify, I always tell them to come back within the next spring or so because the AMI percentage rates, the median income rates that qualify you, they they will go up yearly.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

So just because they they don't qualify now doesn't mean they might not qualify a year from now.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Correct. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Yeah. And uh also if I truly can't help them in any way, I always look for resources that can potentially do that.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

What what other resources are there out there for them?

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Um there's like winterization packages, there's um there's certain grant funding and uh you know rental payment assistance. Um I'm spacing on the exact names of them right now, but uh I have a folder of links and stuff that I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

So when they call you, you try to fit in the existing program, but if they don't, you have references and correct material you can give them. Correct. So again, you're you're new to this position. Um what are your your housing or career goals?

SPEAKER_01 15:13

My particular uh housing goals is that's that's a great question. As far as the housing company goes, I'd love to just oversee this project to its best potential. Um, obviously being new to this job, it's also new to the housing trust. Right, the program's new to the housing trust. So we're working out so many kinks and trying to figure out uh a project that was ran by the same person for almost 20 years. Right. And that the the previous people, they were so smart and so they had their new system down and they knew because they've done it for 20 years. They had their system and some of it is you know paper-based and has aged, yeah. Yeah, and it's all aged out. And so I yeah, I just want to see this thing being ran the smoothest way possible, and I'll feel pretty good about myself if it does that.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

And you've got a good working relationship with Los Alamos County, obviously, right? Because they're again, it's a Los Alamos County program, they provide the funding. And yeah, so it's it's all you're gonna sense not only have to answer to your higher-ups at the housing trust, but you also have Los Alamos County that you have to answer to also.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Yes, there's definitely a hierarchy that that goes on, but uh they they are awesome and they put their trust in us to do this. So um they uh they have been tremendous and very helpful in doing so.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

And what about again, you're you're young. Um, what kind of goals, career goals in general do you have?

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Um, I want to establish a form of independence for myself. Um that could be a broad category, but when you nail it down, it's just if I have the option to choose what I want to do in this business, then that's that's what I would so do you eventually want to go out on your own?

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Is that what you mean? Uh and have your own company where you work in the housing field, like maybe as a contractor, or again, you have your realtor's license or Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah, I think independently real estate would definitely be a a big goal. But uh if I could just oversee a similar company like this, maybe one that's starting up, you know, years down the road, I would like to oversee that as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

So you're gonna have to learn a little bit about management people and how to how to do that. Absolutely. Because that's uh I think that's an overlooked skill that people think you know are it's something that maybe you're born with or that you just do over time, but there's there's a lot that goes into managing people and managing a company. The thing I've learned over the years is it's not just what the company produces, it's the business systems that like the accounting piece, the HR piece. And sometimes it's just as big or bigger than the product itself or the service you're providing. And I think that's where a lot of times entrepreneurs or people that want to move into leadership or management or own their own company will fail because they want to just focus on the product or the service and not have to deal with all these other things. And that's okay if you're willing to pay someone and find someone good that can handle those other things so you can focus on you know the service or the product. But right, uh but so I think that's something as you pursue that career goal, keep an eye out for opportunities to learn about managing and leading and again accounting and HR and those things. Because even if you do hire someone, you want to know who to hire and make sure that you're still keeping an eye on them and they go what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

You hit the nail on the head with accounting and HR, because those are two fields I do not ever wish to be a part of. Well, you don't have to you have to at least have basically.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Yeah, because if not, you know, it's good to trust. But I think it was Ronald Reagan that said trust but verify. Yes, like you can delegate, but you also have to know a little bit about what you're delegating. Right. Uh so Lucas, this is this podcast again is called Housing Matters. We're gonna wrap up here. This has been a great discussion with you about uh your Los Alamos program. But uh tell us why does housing matter to you?

SPEAKER_01 19:30

For starters, I have a family. Okay, so that's um giving them the space that they need to succeed in the best way possible is absolutely important to me. Um, secondly, my father, he was actually a contractor for 30 years. Wow. So uh it's always just always been something that's been around me part of my life. Yeah, yeah. And then the sense of feeling when you do something on your own, when you could see the result, like a house being built or a house being removed.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Because again, you see it from the beginning, and now you've had a project that's ended and you see the before and after.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yes, the sense of pride and something like that is it's unmatched in most cases, especially now that you know me and you are too old to play football and put on the cleats again. Right. You know, this this is my new victory is seeing stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

That's awesome, Lucas. Well, uh thank you for being on the show. This was a great episode. Uh, that's all for this episode, but thank you for listening to Housing Matters, the Housing Trust Podcast. Thanks, guys. Thank you for listening to Housing Matters, the Housing Trust Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review. To learn more about our work and the latest at the Housing Trust, visit housingtrustonline.org. If you are interested in partnering with us or supporting our mission, we'd love to hear from you. You can find our contact information on our website.