LIVE with Trans Northland
LIVE with Trans Northland is a bi-weekly livestream show designed to introduce our community to amazing community individuals, doing amazing things! Tune in every other Wednesday at 12pm (CST) to join our conversation between our host and executive director, Sean Hayes (he/him) and our incredible guests stars.
LIVE with Trans Northland
Hilarious & Informative Transgenda Podcast Co-Hosts...Raven/Selene & Cam Kruger!
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Join us as Trans Northland welcomes Raven/Selene and Cam Kruger to the show!
Raven/Selene (she/her & fae/faer) and Cam Kruger (he/him) are the co-hosts of the amazing Transgenda Podcast – a funny, touching, and informative chronicle of Raven, a transgender woman and Cam, faers cisgender dad, as they share their experiences of growing together and hating bigots.
Show Notes:
- Follow them at @transgendapod on Facebook and Instagram
- Check out their episodes on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG61MX-t-vd8nXArWV9k--A
All right. Well, hello there, friends, viewers, community members. We are so excited to be back with you for another uh great, soon-to-be so great conversation uh today here on live with TransNorthland. Um, and my name is Sean Hayes. I'm a co-founder and the executive director here at TransNorthland. I'll pop our little, there's our website where you can learn more about us. Um, and I am super excited to be able to bring you these different conversations with amazing community members, many of whom are dear friends of mine, including today's guests, which I'll bring on here in a moment. But um, for those who may not know, Trans Northland, we're a nonprofit based in Duluth, Minnesota, and our mission is to provide support, resources, and connection to those in the trans community. And we mean that in the most expansive way, gender expansive folks, everyone who may fall under that umbrella. So we are so glad to be back here with you. And I am gonna not make you wait much longer. I'm gonna bring our guest stars to the stage here so everyone can chime in if you're viewing. Welcome, our friends, Raven and Cam. Thanks for being here, y'all. Thank you so much for having us.
SPEAKER_02The the um script has flipped. Yes, you are hosting us now.
SPEAKER_00That's true. I hadn't even thought about that. That makes my heart happy. Oh my gosh, look at this mutual interviews, combos. I love it.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, do y'all want one of my first times being interviewed for my transness? I think. So this is gonna be really interesting for me, I think.
SPEAKER_00I love that so much. Well, yeah, do y'all want to take a minute to kind of introduce yourselves, name, pronouns, a little bit about who you are, and maybe we can start with Raven, if that sounds good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh hi everyone, I'm Raven. Um, I uh oh gosh, where to even begin? It's been so long since I've done one of these. Um I am uh a local trans person of Duluth, um, a co former co-founder and former chair of Trans Northland. Um I am also the former host of the transgender co-host of the transgender podcast. Um nowadays I spend a lot of my time healing and recovering, um, but I am super excited to be here. Um I don't think I introduced my pronouns, so I use Fay Fair, Nim Nims, Dodo's, and it it's pronouns. Um, and I'm just really excited to be here.
SPEAKER_02Yay, I'm excited to be here too. Um, I'm Cam, your dad. I haven't said that in so long. No, yeah. I love this. I use he him pronouns. Um, I am a nonprofit consultant and uh co-host of the Transgenda pod um with Raven. And uh yeah, and then now I serve on the board of Trans Northland. So um we we had the funny time when Raven stepped off the board and I stepped onto the board. And so um, but it's such an important organization to our community that uh I think we we needed we needed to put our sweat equity into making sure that um Sean gets the support that he needs and that organization gets to thrive. So here we are.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I'm super excited just as friend to y'all to have you join us. And yeah, I mean, you both have had such a huge impact over the you know years um with our organization. And and you know, I know Raven, um, you were like instrumental in the whole process of helping us get our like official nonprofit status. Uh and yes, Cam like serves currently as our treasurer, and thank you so much because it's hard to find people who know how to do finance stuff, uh, who are willing to help and have that time and energy. And Cam, I know you don't have a lot of time and energy or busy, you're you're a busy guy. So yeah, we're just really, really grateful that you're here, and I'm just excited to be able to introduce y'all to people who may not already know you um and hear a little bit more about y'all's story. But before we get there, uh we have to start off with our favorite and first segment, which is our gender joy segment. So sharing moments uh where we have experienced gender joy, gender euphoria, those really good, feel-good moments that we as trans folks as well as cisgender folks experience, like on the daily, I think. Uh, if we're like noticing and really trying to pay attention to that. And um, although I have I have to admit, I struggled to find one myself. So I'm glad I'm gonna toss it to y'all first. I know, yeah, putting y'all on the spot, but uh yeah, Raven or Cam, either one of you want to uh start us off for gender joy.
SPEAKER_01Um, I can start us off sure. Um, so I uh have been struggling recently in my gender um just with like disability and finding what being a genderful person with disability means and how that can look. And like, you know, I don't have the same energy to dress up as nice as I used to and stuff. Um, but one thing that I have found a lot of joy in is my algorithm has decided that um in order to be as engaging to me as possible, show me um accessible uh items of clothing and jewelry and stuff like that that are easy and um nice for people with disabilities to use. Um, one of them being a magnetic bra that you can fasten super easily in the front with chronic pain and stuff. Um, another one being um designed uh for uh by Muslim women, uh, for Muslim women, but being used by many people are fingernail rings that go over your fingernail basically, and you can apply press-ons to the ring. Um, so you can have fake nails on your hands without actually having them applied to your nail, so that you can have like nurses or um Muslim women who wash their hands multiple times a day uh and stuff like that that need some of that um clean hands uh without having the nails attached to that. Um so just some like accessible, cool stuff that I found online that I've been really enjoying and cherishing my algorithm for.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I love that. Yes, thanks for sharing. How about you, Cam?
SPEAKER_02I love that too. I we just saw each other last weekend and I didn't know these things. Yeah. We were too busy catching up on everything else going on in our worlds. Um, so yeah, you know, I I was I always have a hard time with this one, right? Because, you know, as we talked about literally for three years of podcasts, like being a cis man and talking about, you know, gender experience has been a growth experience for me, but I do it more now than I ever have in my life. I think about my gender more. And um, so what I thought of was I got the best vintage old man sweater the other day. Um, there's a great little vintage shop that just popped up um in the neighborhood that I I work in. And uh I walked in not really having anything in mind, and then um just found this amazing little sweater, and it was so cheap because it had a hole in it, so I was able to take it home and sew it up. Uh, and then yeah, it's just it really is this nice, comfy wool, warm with the most old man pattern, and it just really it fits me. It's my smoking jacket, but I don't smoke.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, I love this for you so much, Cam. And I feel like can we go old man sweater shopping? Because I'm about to enter that era in my time. I think I feel like I will be your Sherpa.
SPEAKER_01I feel like it's important that I also bring up my partner who is an old man at heart, and I think would also enjoy um partners, I should say, uh, who in who enjoy old old men shopping and and sweaters and stuff. So um perhaps I can sit this one out and let all of you go together, enjoy old man sweater shopping. Um, and then I will enjoy the fashion show that I get when you all come back.
SPEAKER_00There we go. We must do a fashion show too. Yes. Oh my gosh. Well, thanks for sharing that, y'all. I know I'm gonna I I did think of a gender joy thing for myself, um, which is brief uh because I'm excited to like get into the rest of our conversation. But um, there's been a thing that I have noticed in the last couple of months um with my facial hair. And I'm usually like when I think about my facial hair, I'm usually like, man, why doesn't it grow here? I'm like bummed that I don't have kind of like what I want it to be. So grateful for what I have, so so grateful. Um, but lately my like new gender joy euphoria moment is like this little section here. This is a really difficult area for me, and apparently a lot of trans mask folks, other folks who are like trying to grow and like this connecting thing, right? Um, and it feels weird and like tickly. Um, but I love how it looks so that's my little mini gender joy moment, uh, is connecting goatee. I I don't know, I guess that's kind of what it is, I guess. Yeah, it looks great, it does look great, it looks amazing, yeah. Thank you, thank you so much. Uh yeah, the joy is real and so needed these days. And I think the affirmation too, um, and just yeah, like I saw someone had popped up and was like, fingernail rings, what? Like just sharing about things we may have never heard of, and now this viewer has learned uh that they can check something out thanks to us sharing. So thanks, y'all. Um, before we dive into our convo, I'm gonna go through there's a lot of things coming up events-wise, y'all, um, which is really exciting. I'm gonna pop that up there so you can see. So if you don't know, we have an events calendar um that's sort of like a community, queer, trans-friendly events calendar that all of our stuff is on, but then we are also are kind of constantly looking for other groups and organizations, events, concerts, you name it. Um, and we like to throw those on there when we know that they're trans affirming uh spaces and safe spaces. So um we're gonna highlight a couple events that we've got coming up for trans Northland. Um, just starting off with we just had the most wholesome kind event. If you weren't there this last Saturday, um we got to partner with our dear friends with the Free Mom Hugs Group, uh, and we met up for kindness, crafts, and connections. Um, there's a lot of k sounds there, so I had to like read that. Um, but it was so, so, so lovely. And I just wanted to share that and share thanks to all of the folks who helped us. And um, we sort of had a last-minute venue change that our volunteers like we quick made that happen, and our good friends right next door to the imaginarium uh at Svalia Whole Being or Svalia Yoga, um, were gracious enough to be like, yes, come in and use our studio. Um, so it was a really cool um way to see community come together and like shift and pivot when we needed to. And then we had like 40 plus people from toddlers up to older folks who came through, and there were like multiple craft options, and yeah, it was really sweet and good for my heart. And hopefully everyone there kind of felt that kindness that we were going for. But coming up, y'all, um, we want you to make sure you know about our anti-freeze benefit community event and drag show, which is coming up real fast. Uh, it's the first Friday in March, March 6th. Um, and if you haven't seen about that, you can check our socials for more details. But that event is going to be benefiting the Immigration Defense Network and Mishkiki Studios, um, which is based down in the Twin Cities. Um, so we're hoping to raise a lot of funds to be able to send to our neighbors and community down that way. Um, after you know, if they're continuing to experience um ice attacks and raids and all of that. So we want to help our friends out down there. Uh, and then uh so it's gonna be 20 bucks a ticket to get in, or if cash is tight, because it is tight, um, if you can't afford that ticket, we are also asking folks to bring a donation of an adult size winter jacket, hat, and mittens, um, which those items are all gonna be donated to our friends at Lifehouse for the youth. But note, they want adult sizes, that's very specific. I was told that multiple times. So please bring that um and help our youth out. Uh, also coming up, we uh are gonna be sharing more info about this soon, but our next show-up squad event is planned for March. Uh, we're gonna be hanging out with our friends at Crow and Co. to go. Uh, they have their LGBTQIA plus coffee talk meetup at Dovetail. So we'll be there hanging out in the afternoon, March 14th. And then lastly, not a ton of details yet about this, but Trans Day of Visibility is coming up at the end of March. And you know it, we're already planning our community event, which will be at the depot again. Um, shout out to them and Katie. We love that space. God, what a good partner in a good space. They're so great to work with. So, yeah, we'll be there on Sunday, March 29th from 1 to 4 p.m. And yeah, there's gonna be vendors, entertainment, and more. So stay tuned. Um, and then lastly, we love to lift up a couple of community events that are coming up because it's not all about us, it's about everybody. So uh this coming weekend, there's a couple things. Um, Transforming Families has their Duluth meetup this coming Sunday uh afternoon. Uh, that's at Peace Church. Check the calendar, find all the info. Uh, and then our friends over at the Minnesota Transgender Alliance, they also have uh their uh, I think they do bi-weekly virtual meetings uh on Monday night. So if that's something you're looking for, that's a cool group. And they usually have different topics they talk about every time. So find all the details on the events calendar. And now, woo! That was so much talking, and I'm ready to talk to y'all um because I'm really pumped to just get into this. So, our first question for y'all, and you can take it, you know, whoever wants to take this. But I would love for you to share the story of transgenda, like how that came to be, um, what y'all did with that, and yeah, maybe like what's going on now and what folks could potentially look forward to.
SPEAKER_01You're always better at telling the history, Cam.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was gonna say, let me tell the history and then you talk about kind of where we're at now. Um, yeah, so um, well, it always starts with Raven and I have always been just extremely close. Um, I was very young when when Raven was born, and um, so when Raven came out to me the second time, um, you know, it was very much this this huge learning uh opportunity for me as cisgender dad who knew nothing about um the trans experience. And um over the course of a few years of of learning and you know, both of us becoming more comfortable around these conversations, um, we also were huge podcast listeners. Um, and we just loved the McElroy brothers who have somehow remained still unproblematic. And I'm so glad that I can talk about them with enthusiasm that they haven't like done anything uh that I know of. Um, but they're just really wholesome people and and have been a really great um sort of uh something to look up to as far as podcasting goes. And so we flew out to California um on a on a vacation, and it was we had been talking about before that, but um, we just kind of decided, hey, let's test this out and and see what happens. So while on vacation, we got all our stuff out and tried tried it out, um, and uh plotted through, and then um yeah, it kind of just went from there. Um, we used that as an opportunity to have Raven and our guests that we had on the show talk about their trans experience and um use that as an education for for me. I mean, largely that's kind of how we frame this as a reason for us to keep in touch and talk, but also to continue, you know, that sort of cis education. But it was really fun to use that format to then share it with the world and um and and with the world we did. Um, we had some some real high moments in that. Um, we had uh this amazing um friend of ours, Sean Hayes, on the podcast as a guest at one point. Um, but I always say, like, it's a little braggadocious, but the thing that really put us on the map was um Aiden Dowling um, you know, had just had just been on the cover of Men's Health magazine. And it was just his people reached out to us and I was like, what is this? How are you know? Um, and had that interview and it was amazing. And we stayed in touch for a solid year afterwards, supporting um the work that he's been doing. And so I think that really got our exposure out. Um and at our height, we had a hundred thousand listeners on on episodes, and um, you know, really, really felt like a meaningful experience to to the people that we were we were um uh chatting to every couple of weeks. So um, yeah, so that kind of brings us to um a year ago almost.
SPEAKER_01A year and a month? Yeah, a year and a month. Um, yeah. Um so uh this is a lot to talk about uh for the last like year or so. Um I know that a lot of you have probably been wondering where's Raven been at? Um we've not heard from Raven, and um there's a lot of good reasons for that. Um, but kind of picking up where Cam left off about a year ago, we had our final live stream. Um it's been our tradition for many years, uh Christmas Day, to play uh video games together and hang out. And for the last couple of years, we had been um doing that all together with a live stream and sharing our experiences and stuff. Um and then this last year, uh we not last month, but the year before, uh, we did a um case test of um Taco Bell versus Taco Johns. We decided to get extremely sick, is what it was oh my god, it was crazy. Um and during that we made the announcement that the transgender was going to be going on hiatus for a little while. It kind of had already been on hiatus for a little while. Um, and that kind of brings us to now, a year later, where uh there's not been a new episode, and I am really sorry about that to everybody who's really been hoping for it. Um, but there's been a lot of life happening. Um, I mean, as many of you know, uh things have not been entirely the safest for trans people in the last year. Um, and for me in particular, uh, I have been having a lot of health issues, um, things that have made it difficult to work, to live, to function, to hang out with the people who I love. Um, and so as much as I love my audience and everything, I've been trying to save the time that I have and the energy that I have for my family. Um, and you know, I'm I'm doing well, um, as well as I can be now. Um, but it's definitely been a struggle every day to, you know, show up. Um and so that's kind of where we're at now, is is the transgenders kind of on hiatus um for a while. Um definitely not opposed to bringing it back, uh, especially if I feel better in the future. Let's let's all hope for that. Um, but for right now, just it is too much of an energy commitment for me to do. Um, and I know that Cam is busy with so many things.
SPEAKER_02Um I always have time for you, though.
SPEAKER_01Always have time for me, of course. Um but yeah, like it's it's just life be lifing. And um, you know, the the podcast is a wonderful thing that I am so proud of that we did. And at this current moment, the repository is what my legacy is for that. Um, and hopefully we will be able to add to it in the future. But that's where I'm at.
SPEAKER_02It's still all out there for people to listen to anytime. And you know, I truly, I mean, I don't think that there's an end to the amount of content, but we hit all the main points, I think, through the three years that we, you know, so coming up with new things. Here's what I want to say is I think there might be a perception that podcasting is just showing up with a mic and recording yourself and like ta, it's that easy, and really there's a lot more that goes. Goes into this, and especially because we really wanted a polished product and something that you know is very listenable, which means we ended up hiring an editor. Um, who I just uh popped onto their stream. Um, they got to their 50,000 viewer stream um the other day. Um, and they also got picked up by a very prominent YouTuber. So the timing was really good for this. That all happened right as we were making the decision to put the podcast on hiatus. Um, our editor Frey was like ready to launch into their own YouTube career. Um, and so it was it just felt like a good time for everybody to to put this on pause. But this is we I Sean, I admire that you were so excited to start up this live with uh Trans Northland Podcast because I know the effort that goes into making this happen um as often as you do it. And uh it's not just press and record to make it happen.
SPEAKER_00It definitely isn't. I've got multiple things happening back here. Uh hopefully we're gonna have some volunteers in here soon to help with some of that behind the scenes stuff. Um, but yeah, you're right. There is a lot that goes into it. Um, and it is, you know, a really, I think, beautiful thing that y'all created. And I was gonna say, yeah, we're we're gonna make sure we have like a link in our show notes for this archive where you can find all of the previous episodes. Um, and I just have to say, like, I was a regular big fan, you know, listener. And every time I listened, it was like I was laughing, like I could connect with what y'all were sharing, and like I was learning things um at the same time, like as a trans person. You know, it's like all trans people, we don't know all the things about all the other trans people and experiences out there. And um, and I think especially it was, you know, really beautiful the way that y'all shared like the parental sort of relationship, right? Because like, you know, we know like it's a transition for those of us who are trans, but oftentimes, you know, we don't really think about all the people in our lives who are also going through their own transition. And y'all uh oh, it's making me a little emotional. Y'all do yeah, y'all shared in such a really like vulnerable, you know, beautiful way about like the challenges y'all faced and like hurts that were felt between, you know, in the time um of transition, and you know, we're always in times of transition, but um, I think that that was just really meaningful to me to be able to listen to as someone who's also, you know, had challenges with my family and folks around me early in my transition too. So um, yeah, I'm grateful y'all shared about that. And it also made me think, you know, kind of on under, you know, with the podcast, y'all were also doing a lot of training. Um, and I'm wondering if you'd share a little bit about that, because a lot of that I think was based around working with healthcare providers, and it's an interesting time now that we're in um when we think about gender-affirming care and the future of that.
SPEAKER_01And so y'all want to share anything about what y'all used to do, or I mean, yeah, again, I think this might be a really good time where um if you want to talk about what we used to do, and then I can maybe talk about some of the experiences that I've had now, especially as a intersectionally disabled and trans person. Um, because I think that that's really important too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I mean, I would say we're still available for certain projects if you are looking for trainers in in this space. Um, I think the magic behind our presentation and the podcast truly was just um, you know, the the the cis guy parent who doesn't really know anything, you know, um, being able to share alongside somebody with the lived experience of being a trans person creates this really interesting. I mean, I I think so. And the feedback that has been given to us as trainers has has led to this, that it does give this very interesting dynamic for people who are learning the very basics about gender and how to support somebody who um is is gender. I mean, really, because that's how we frame all this. Like gender means is this really, really big thing. Um, and so yeah, so I would say, you know, the other reason I think we have kind of put a pause to has been the political climate that's out there. When we had our contracts with some, um, you know, we had a contract with the local health system for almost a year, um, where we were providing um, you know, fairly regular um trainings to nurses and health professionals, um, which is again an amazing opportunity. I'm so glad we were in those rooms. I don't think that would happen today, given the climate that we're in. Um, I and so, you know, those kinds of opportunities have just dried up. Um, I think that there's just not as much willingness for organizations to be as public about their support for um the LGBT community in general right now. And so um, so yeah, so I I I think it's okay that there's not a million people bursting down our door with training opportunities because um Raven needs to heal, and um there's a lot of other places that we can put our time and attention right now. Um but yeah, yeah, I'd love to throw the ball to you, Raven, on that depressing note because it only gets more depressing, probably.
SPEAKER_01It it does, it does get more depressing, but I think that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, which is um, you know, like I have now experienced a lot of healthcare. Uh I see a doctor pretty much every month, if not more frequently than that. Um, and so I am in healthcare constantly. Um, and and something I've really noticed is that people do not go out of their way. Um, in the past, I used to have people who would go out of their way to say, I want to make you comfortable, I want to like know your pronouns, I want to, and nobody really does that anymore. Um, I had one nurse who was really, really sweet. Uh I was in the Twin Cities at Fairview for a um a procedure, and I had a nurse uh who came into my room, saw that my pronouns were just she, her on my whiteboard and not what was in my chart, which were my actual pronouns. And she goes, Raven, I want to know your pronouns. And I was like, Oh, well, you know, like she, her works, it's fine. Like, you know, that it's easier for everybody. It that's fine. And she's like, No, no, no, no, no. I want to know your pronouns. And she didn't like fully understand them, she didn't like, you know, really, I think, process how to use them, but the effort was there. And like that, even just that amount of effort, I see so rarely anymore. Um, and so like I I agree with you, Cam, absolutely that the political climate is just, you know, screw trans people right now. Um and I think like the positive side of that is I have also seen a lot of healthcare providers come out and say, I am in support of trans people. I will continue to provide gender-affirming care. I will be out here supporting trans people. And so there's less people overall who are taking interest in like trans people and care and stuff like that. But the people who are really showing up are really showing up and they are saying, I'm putting my license on the line, I'm putting my life and job and existence on the line to help people who need the help that they deserve, you know, need to get. Um so I think that's one thing that I've been finding a lot of help and support in is like the people who I have been interacting with who do care about my gender transition and who I am as a person are really showing up and caring about that.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh, and we need them, and we're grateful for them because there are there are a lot of providers uh who believe in this care and believe science that this care is helpful and um not hurtful to trans people. Um, and so yeah, I think you're absolutely right that, you know, things feel dire. Um and like we can't forget that we aren't alone. Um, there are a lot of providers in this region as well as down in the Twin Cities, you know, where we're um still able to get that care. And um, we'll probably be talking a lot more about this in future episodes, conversations, honestly, because this is a really developing uh landscape when it comes to gender-affirming care in our state of Minnesota that is a trans refuge state. Just saying that slowly for all of those who may be watching who helped pass that. And now we need you to keep it that way. Um, and we know that uh a lot of our legislators are working hard at that, folks at Outfront Minnesota, also gender justice. There's a lot of us, y'all. Um, so yeah, we want to leave that on a hopeful note, and and we'll keep you posted as we learn more about healthcare things related more to our area here in the Northland. Um, but Raven, um, while I'm thinking about it, and I meant to ask you this before we even went live, but I did notice you have new pronouns since I last you. And I was gonna say, I don't know what some of these are. Um I know about Faye and I know it, and I think NIM and Do are new to me and probably new to some folks who may be watching. And so I'm wondering if you could share a little bit about that. I'm calling you out, putting you on the spot.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, so um nim, do, fe, it to a certain amount are all neo-pronouns. Uh, I I don't I don't want to assume that anybody here knows anything about trans experiences. So we're gonna start just from the very beginning. Uh, I use neo-pronouns. Those are pronouns that are not he, him, she, her, and often they them. They them is often excluded from neo-pronouns. Um, but it's basically any pronoun that doesn't fit into those categories. Uh, fay fair uh is for me very much associated with the fe, the fairies who exist causing mischief, uh exist like bringing um joy and merriment and a lot of weird things to humanity. Uh, that's my vibe with that.
SPEAKER_02You bring a lot of weird things to humanity. I do.
SPEAKER_01That is my that is my goal. Um love it. Nim Nims, uh, that is in relation to the nymph, uh um relating to specifically dryads. Um, I I feel connection to nature in a way of like a tree person, a dryad, someone who is very connected to the nature and the natural world. Um doe does, that is related to deer, um, specifically a femme deer, you know, someone who uh, you know, has that fond heart kind of ideal. And then it's is um just I don't know, it fits it's like I don't feel entirely human all the time, and so it's like it's almost reclaiming that like inhumanity of um of how it has been used in the trans community for the trans community by people who mean to do us harm, I should say. Um, and I think it's being reclaimed now.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. I remember you sharing that with me a couple years ago when we were at one of those trainings. I think I was like pinch hitting for Cam or something one day, and uh, and I remember you sharing about it, it's in particular, and how you know that was oftentimes used in bullying and harassing mean ways to folks, and to you know, there's a lot of those words in the queer community, I think that people have taken back. And and I love that. There you go, case in point, point in case, yes. Um, yeah, so well, thank you for that. Because I know you know it's like I think about you know, for myself, it's like learning a new thing. It's like, ooh, I don't know. For me, I'm very curious, and I'm like always excited about learning new things like that, but also it can make me feel nervous because it's like, oh no, this is a new thing that I'm gonna have to sort of learn and practice because I wanna like respect your full humanity as my friend and as a human being, and in all the different ways that you feel uh and show up in the world, and so um, yeah, I just feel like it's important to name that that like it's new things are hard, and like we can do hard things. We're doing hard things every day, y'all.
SPEAKER_01If I may, I do have a sled announcement. Um, I have adopted another name for myself um in honor of my spirituality and connection to the moon. I've adopted the name Celine as an additional name for myself. Um, Raven still works, Celine works, whatever. Um, but I just I I think this is the first time that you're hearing about this as well, Cam. Yeah. Um but yeah, I I just it's another name that feels very connected for me. Oh my gosh, I love that.
SPEAKER_00Yay, yay, yay.
SPEAKER_02Oh I mean, what fun it has been in the journey to be alongside Raven Celine in the journey of self-discovery. Like that, this is proud dad moment, right? Of like, it is challenging to get a handle on what our purpose in this world is or like who we are as people. And I think everyone experiences that in some way. Like, you really have to have your head deep in the sand if you're not thinking about like how you fit into the universe. And so I think the coolest part about the journey and the biggest learning for me in being your dad has always been like watching your self-discovery, and that helps me with my own self-discovery too. Like, I mean, you and I have talked this is every aspect of our lives, right? Like our ability and our mental health, we've talked about a lot, and our you know, and our gender and our our space in society. Um, and it can, I think it's always should be evolving for people. Um, I and I I I hate it that there are people out there that don't self-reflect and are stagnant with themselves, and I can't imagine that's a very happy place to be.
SPEAKER_01No, I this is like something that I've thought a lot about as well, is is like I am a person who's ever evolving, right? And I think that we all are in some aspects. And you know, like when I was originally playing around with another name, I was like, do I really want to go through the process of like adding a name or changing my name again and like all of that stuff. I uh people know me as Raven now, and I just did that, you know, and like and so like it there's a lot of like going back and forth, but really what it came down to is like Raven is who I am, you know, like that that's who we are, that's a part of us, and ultimately I think that that's all going to be us for a long time, forever, probably. But Celine is definitely also a part of us in like this spiritual way of like you know, who we are as a being in this universe and stuff like that, and like how we've been exploring our spirituality and all of that. And I think that like gender, spirituality, ability, like everything is all so interconnected, and they just we need to be more open and accepting of people and their identities, um, and be willing to to change and flow with people as they flow and change as well.
SPEAKER_00So well said. Oh my gosh, I could not agree more. Uh, and I think, yeah, as we learn, that allows us to expand and like, yeah, hopefully get to experience more of parts of us that we maybe just haven't gotten to know yet, right? Um, so yeah, I'm just I'm grateful for where this conversation has shifted. I love it. Um, I'm gonna move us to our next question, and maybe Raven, we can start off with you. But um I know you both, you know, have been very involved in the community in the past and um and do work now. You know, Raven, I was just thinking about um, you know, we have worked with you and and met with you in the past to talk about accessibility at our events and like how we can work to make all of our events spaces um and the vibes and like what we have there available for folks, right? Like really as accessible as we can. Um, and so I don't know if you want to start us off there and just share. I I know that that is a has been a passion of yours to talk about disability justice, just in sharing your experience, as you said, with healthcare. Um, so I'm curious how that may have shifted or changed or evolved.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yeah, I um I'd say that the community work that I do every day now is just getting out of bed, existing, waking up every day. Um, you know, like something that has been very difficult for me as I am a person who was raised and still has a lot of um internalized like motivation, capitalistic, ableistic, you know, like internalized things and no fault of Cam or or anybody's, you know, like that's just the society that we live in, right? Um, and so I've been working to undo that. And one way that I've been doing that is the radical acceptance of every day that I exist, that I wake up, that I am here today, is a day where I am radically obliterating the patriarchy, obliterating the ableistic systems, obliterating capitalism, um, just by existing, because I do not conform. And so um, that's one way that I have really been trying to like find my community work. Um, if you were to ask me to do something out in the community that I really wanted to do and I had all the energy, I would tell you that I would be out there literally saving people's lives. I love helping people, I love working with people. Um, and so whatever that may look like, you know, I specialized in mental health crisis, um, and now I feel like I am constantly helping people with through their own everyday crisis. Um, you know, the people around me, the the community that I live in, and with everything that um has been going on, I think that it's really important that we have people who are able to be, um, as my therapist calls me, a community healer, somebody who can really like be present and able to help people in a way that is not directly healthcare. Um and that's kind of the vibe that I try and fill and am passionate about.
SPEAKER_00Yes, community care. I mean, it's like what it's all boiling down to at this point. We can't rely on systems or institutions because someone's pulling their pocketbook uh pocketbook strings, um, unfortunately. And so it has always been about that community care and the mutual aid, right? That we're seeing pop up and folks just taking care of their neighbors and their their chosen fam. So that is important work, and just like, yeah, surviving. There's so many people, like, literally, that's what we need you to do. We need you to keep doing that, don't take on extra, don't do the extra thing, say no. Because we need all of us to to keep building this community that we're a part of. So, how about you, Cam? I oh, sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01If I may, also just reminding myself to drink water. Uh, it is a tradition on our podcast to remind people to drink water. I do feel it's important to just hydration reminder, everyone, drink some water.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, the basics are like critical right now. I don't know how many times my mentors, I'm like wanting to talk to them about how do I do this or what about this or what about this idea. And they're like, When was the last time you ate some food? When was the last time you drank some water? And I'm like, shit, uh, but I don't want to do those things, I can't stop. There's so much, but we have to take care of ourselves, we have to yeah. How about you, Cam? What do you want to share?
SPEAKER_02There's so many things, and you're yeah, I mean, I'm involved in a couple of things, right? Um, well, the first thing I will say is like I I think I was doing the same amount of stuff throughout most of my career, but I was also working like 60-hour work weeks on top of that, and so that's the thing that's shifted the most for me is like um I was burning myself too into the ground. And it was really Raven who did teach me that like self-care is okay and rest is part of this, and like, you know, like you you need to have those things or else you are going to be unable to. And there was a point where I sort of reached that, like, I have now run out of any steam left, and I'm no good to anybody here. So I need to take a step back, like, reorient, and then figure out where I can put my time and energy in a way that's a little more um successful. So, you know, honestly, what ended up happening was I left the job I'd been at for 10 years where I was putting in those 60-hour weeks and really running myself into the ground, and then kind of just stopped doing everything for a little while and just hit the reset button. And then unfortunately, what happened was I started coming back and then people started asking me to do things, and I am very much not somebody to say no to things. Um, and so now I'm very much back into um there's a lot of pieces of my world. As a nonprofit consultant, I interface with a lot of nonprofits, so I get asked to serve on boards a lot. Um, and so right now I serve on the Trans Northern board um as the treasurer, and then I also serve um with Transforming Families as well, which just really felt like a good fit. Like I was like, oh, I can kind of put myself in as a conduit between our two organizations doing, you know, very complimentary work. Um at that time, they weren't specifically serving Duluth or we didn't have peer groups up here. And so um the fact that that now is something that's in our community was kind of my first mission joining that organization. And so um, so I'm glad. And I still feel very odd being a cis man in these spaces, and you know, um, but I think I am so glad that I can put my energy into something that I I truly believe is helping our community. And that's supporting these two organizations. And then um, and then there are a few other boards that I don't feel quite as passionate about that I serve on that um that I also though, you know, I know that the things that I've learned over the years doing this work is is um helpful and you know that I can contribute those things to those organizations, but um truly where I see my passion lie right now is in um, you know, how do we, in this moment, especially in the world, how do I, as this person that doesn't have a trans-lived experience, put my time and energy into making sure that people can have a trans-lived experience and live through all of this. And I just that's where I want a lot of my energy to be. Um and the rest of my time is really passionate about um how nonprofits support our communities. And again, especially in this time, um, you know, I'm really believing a lot in microcommunities and I'm very passionate about, you know, not big systems work or giant multi-million dollar organizations. Um, like Sean said earlier. That I just the level of trust that I have in that is is lessened in this time. And so it really has been about how do I just connect with people who have similar passions about um, you know, supporting everybody where they're at in the world right now. And um, yeah. Word salad a little bit at the end there, but no, it's also life salad, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yes, life salad for sure. Oh my gosh, that might be a part of our title. I don't know. Um catching up on the life salads. Um yeah, I well, and I do want to, you know, say too, I mean, because of all of your experience in that nonprofit sector, right? In that that world of how those work, right? Um, I mean, you've been instrumental, you know, in helping us develop policies um and procedures and helping us figure out bank stuff. And just, you know, as a newer nonprofit, uh, you know, we've just now started kind of looking at grant writing and you know, there's just a lot of ways that I think your experience and the way that you have shared it with us, like Trans Northland wouldn't be where we're at without your help, Cam, and and yours as well, uh, Raven, because again, like you were pivotal in that moment getting that stamp from whoever, you know, the state, whatever. Um, but yeah, it's it's pivotal. And so, like the fact that you, as you know, I I hear you, it's weird to like be in spaces where you don't like fit that identity, but as an ally, as an accomplice, and like I feel like you model what we need as allies. What we need as accomplices in this moment is people who have these skills that I do not have, that our other board members and volunteers don't have. We need funds, we need like all the ways that allies can show up right now because literally on every level, uh, healthcare, housing, all of it, you know, our folks are really struggling. Um, and there's only so much we can do with the very tiny nonprofit budget we have currently. Um, so yeah, I just want to say thanks again to y'all because you've gotten us to this point, and and we're just gonna keep growing and expanding uh because there's a need for us. And so we're gonna keep being here, and I'm glad y'all are both a part of it, a part of the community. Um, so as we begin to wrap up, um, I know we always like to talk to our guests about how they are taking care of themselves, and maybe this can be a reflective moment about maybe there are some things, you know, not just the three of us here, right? But those watching, maybe there's a couple things that we could say, actually, I don't have the spoons for that. Or, hey, friend group, like, can we get together once a month and have dinner? You know, whatever it is. So I think we need those uh examples and and to share how we're taking care of ourselves because yeah, we need all of us. We gotta keep going in the fight. Um, so yeah, either one of you want to start about some self-care practices y'all use.
SPEAKER_01So many. Um I feel like a lot of my life recently has been self-care, uh, necessarily, I should say. Um but I think one way that I've been really trying to take care of myself recently, um that you know what? We were just talking about it. I went to my first PT appointment in years the other day. That's how I'm taking care of myself right now. Taking medication, going to PT, following my doctor's orders. Like, I am doing everything that I am supposed to be doing medically, and that's how I'm taking care of myself right now.
SPEAKER_00Yes, so good, so good.
SPEAKER_01Yes, doing my exercises, taking my meds, you know, like as everybody should who needs to should be doing. If you haven't taken your meds today, do that too. Water and meds, those are the two things.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Um, agreed. Uh, and I don't know, you know, the biggest thing that I've added to my life is just like I my brain doesn't function for eight hours or ten hours straight, but I used to force myself to sort of just like power through it. And so now it's like, and again, I designed my life so that I have this ability, but like I can jump on my bed and close my eyes for five minutes and reset. Um, and that's been huge for me. And I realize that is a huge privilege, you know, that I've gotten to in my life, that I can sort of build that into my day. But I also, you know, I just I want everybody to have that opportunity in whatever small way you have. I think that's the the same idea of, you know, if you're at a workplace and you can go lock yourself in the supply closet for a couple minutes and just like decompress and breathe and you know, bring your water with you. And um, you know, in whatever way you can, I think it is really important for our sanity and and how our brains function, that we take those breaks. I I Pompadoro timers, they were like really trendy for a little while there. And then um, I don't know if you've heard of that, but it's like 20 minutes of work and then five minutes of break and then 20 minutes of work and then five, and there literally are all these like timers out there that you can set for yourself in order to do that. I actually think I I that one doesn't work for me because if I'm in like a flow state, I don't want to be interrupted from that. Like, let me crank through something for two hours, get it done, and then I can breathe at that point. But I want to make sure that I'm building those things in and I want that for other people too.
SPEAKER_01Um one thing that that made me think of that I do want to share with all of you is um uh premise from uh MECFS uh chronic fatigue syndrome, um, which is a condition that um I I believe I have um because I am fatigued pretty much constantly. And so something that I've been trying to really adopt that I think everybody should really look at into is something called pacing, which is where you check in with yourself, see how much energy you have, and then see what activities match that energy. So say, like, I have the energy to make myself one egg, and that's it. And so I'll go and I'll make myself one egg, and then I'll go lay down for however long I need to until the next thing, you know, and say, like, I need to go fill my water. So then it's like, okay, let's gather the energy, take the time that I need to rest, recover before the activity, and then go and do the activity, and then build in time afterward to rest and recover as well. And now for people who like are not having chronic fatigue syndrome, maybe you don't need an hour of bedtime for cooking one egg. But, you know, like same principles make sure that you're saving energy before an activity and then resting and recovering after an activity, even if it is locking yourself in a supply closet for five minutes in the middle of your work day.
SPEAKER_02It's cheesy, but I it made me think of that saying, you know, we are human beings, not human doings. And you alluded to this earlier that we are just so wired to like we have to be productive every darn minute of our lives. And it's really unfortunate, right? That it takes like a mental health issue or a physical ailment to actually force ourselves to, you know, the our two examples of this is you know, like we we had to. I mean, I just I we we wouldn't be here if we had not taken the time to actually take care of ourselves. But I know that there are people listening right now that are just like, I this is my lunch break, and I'm listening to this podcast, and I'm probably still working on something else for my personal life. And like, that's just what we're trained to do. And then after this podcast is done, you're gonna start running back to the next thing and do that until you flop to bed and are exhausted and wake up and do it the next day. And I just I don't like that for humanity that that's how we are driven. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I think everybody should learn from the disabled community and take breaks, take time to rest, recover. And, you know, like I think that there's this perception that, and maybe I'll go on my soapbox for a second here. There's this perception that I feel and that I know a lot of people other uh have and and and feel towards disabled people that I used to have, which is disabled people, uh, they don't want to work, they you know, just are lazy or whatever, and you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. And of course that's awful, and like don't believe that. Um, but I think to a certain extent, like that is ingrained in us all uh as a capitalistic ableistic society. And one thing that I have really been trying to do um to kind of break that down is say, okay, I am a person and I deserve to be here, and I'm going to make myself the time to recover and rest and be in this world. Um and I I I hope that when people recognize that and move away from the idea of disabled people not wanting to work or whatever, they recognize also that it's I want to work, I want to be doing community work, I want to be out there and doing this, and this recovery time is so that I can do that again. Um and my recovery time just looks like a different amount of recovery than you do. You get eight hours of sleep and are functional the next day. I get 16 of hours of hours of sleep and I'm not. Um so you know, like that's just where we're at. And um I stepping off my soapbox, I just hope everybody knows that like people want to do stuff. We want to be out there working on stuff, we want to be doing community, and it's not for lack of trying and effort, it is for our bodies and our minds.
SPEAKER_00Yep, I could not agree more. I think this rest thing keeps coming up uh for myself as well, and you know, I'm a chronic person who keeps going and going and going and giving um usually more than what I've got. Um, and it is hard to, I think, you know, I think about a lot of the people who I know, right, in our community who are givers and we are helpers, and who is helping the helpers? It's a question I kind of keep asking, and it's like, oh, I think we have to be the reminders to each other, and we, you know, so if you have a friend group, check in every day and be like, who drank their eight ounces, at least eight ounces of water, y'all. Um, you know, you took your meds, exactly. Did you sleep enough? Exactly. Yeah, so this rest thing, it's so hard when it feels like every day we wake up and there's a new crisis, there's a new terrible thing happening in the world, and yet the earth keeps spinning if I take a day off. The earth keeps spinning if you step into your supply closet for five minutes and take a couple deep breaths, because there's a lot happening. There's a lot, a lot going on that we are all holding, like as individual humans and also collectively, as so many of our communities are literally under attack. Um, and so if you're an ally watching this, um, we need you. We need you to join the fight if you've been thinking about it, if you're wondering about what it might look like to volunteer or to get more involved in your community, whether it's with us at Trans Northland, or we could probably point you to another place. If you're like into working with youth, we got connections at Life House. We'll get you over there. But we need your help, we need everyone to show up in at least one way, right? One thing that you can do if you have that energy, we need your help. Um, and for all of the queer and trans and gender expansive folks out there on this call, um, keep taking care of yourselves because it is really hard right now. Um it's it's really tough for myself, for each of you I know. Um, and what's keeping us going is our people, people and community. So reach out, uh, reach out to us if you need support and some care. We've always got some event or support group coming up where we'd love to see your faces, whether it's a virtual thing or you're joining us in person. Um, but yeah, I just want to say thanks again to Raven, Celine, and Cam for taking the time to join me today and all of our viewers. Um, and yeah, we just really appreciate hearing your story. And I think so many of us, like you've touched so many of our lives. Oh man, I'm really gonna cry now. Um, but okay, so we got to wrap it up. But I just want to say thank you because yeah, y'all have had a huge impact in our community, and and we are grateful and we love y'all lots.
SPEAKER_02So thanks. We love you right now. And we love y'all. Yes. Yeah, except say the things the bigots.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say we have to sign off that way. The classic. If you haven't heard the transgenda, I know I'm like gonna put you on the spot because we will. I will sign off like that, uh, because it's classic. And so, yeah, will y'all do the official sign off?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I've been Raven, and I've been Cam. And this has been Live with Trans Northland featuring us. Love you all, yeah, featuring us. Love you all, except the bigots.