Ron Tanner Reveals the Secrets Behind Successful Brands

What separates thriving businesses from those that struggle to survive?

Often, it's not the product. It's the preparation.

In this episode of 10 Keys to Thrive in Business and Life, Jim Krigbaum sits down with food industry veteran Ron Tanner, who brings more than three decades of experience helping brands navigate growth, distribution, trade shows, customer acquisition, and market expansion.

Together, they explore the critical role of market research, understanding your customer, evaluating risk, and building a strategy before investing time and money into growth. From the complexities of the U.S. food industry to lessons that apply across every business sector, Ron shares practical insights on trade shows, distribution channels, customer targeting, product positioning, and why so many businesses fail because they don't fully understand the market they're entering.

Whether you're launching a new product, entering a new market, attending trade shows, or scaling an existing business, this episode provides a roadmap for making smarter decisions and avoiding costly mistakes.

Because success doesn't happen by accident.

It happens when preparation meets opportunity.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome back to 10 Keys to Thrive in Business and Life. I'm your mentor and host, Jim Krigbaum. Today we're going to have a special guest, Ron Tanner, who's been a pillar in the food industry and the specialty food industry for over three decades. His experience shows us how the application of the charm dance principles moves from theory and from what I have to teach you to what people do and actually execute. We'll talk about market research and understanding the systems. We're going to use the food industry as an example. Stay tuned and learn how to apply the principles to your industry.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

If you're not getting the results you want in your business, your team, or your life, it's rarely a lack of effort. It's a gap in how you think, decide, and lead. So welcome to Ten Keys to Thrive, where practical wisdom meets real-world results. Each episode gives you simple, proven tools to improve your decisions, strengthen relationships, and drive better outcomes right away. Drawing on decades of global leadership experience, Jim brings practical insights shaped by real-world challenges and results. Here's your host, Jim Krigman.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Ron Tanner brings 33 years working with the Specialt Food Association, best known for putting on the Fancy Food Show. They have two shows, one in New York City and one in San Francisco each year. Those shows are attended by thousands of people looking to sell their product and thousands of people looking to buy. The challenge is how to maximize your return on investment, how to make sure that your customer acquisition costs are low. We'll talk about trade show planning in another session, but today we're going to talk about the food industry and teach you how the research you do on your industry will make sure that you have a road that you're traveling that you know where you're going. Because again, if you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there. Let's build the road. The US food industry, for example, there's 22 to 23,000 organizations, companies that are involved in the food industry. 26 to 28 million people are employed directly to the food industry. Huge industry. One of the things we find in the industry is that there are thousands of players, but a lot of them are consolidated. A lot of the smaller companies are owned by larger companies. So if you take a look at the brands that you go to the grocery store and you pick up a brand and you start to do the research, you'll find that it's owned by somebody else in a lot of cases. Especially food show, we see a lot of times where people come in and show their products. They have a big, beautiful booth. And in that booth, they're promoting it. They've developed all their materials. And two years later, they're not there. Why are they not there? Well, a lot of times they're either bankrupt because they did too big of a burst and weren't planning to the business properly. They didn't explore their risk. They didn't analyze their customer acquisition cost, or they're purchased. A lot of times the big companies will come in and will purchase brands either to integrate them into their business, or in some cases to put them out of business to take away the competition. We've seen that in many cases. We saw how a coffee brand was developed up in Bellingham, Washington. They had great retail sales. They were selling whole beans. That company was purchased by Procter Gamble. That brand no longer exists. Procter Gamble took them out of business. We saw how a local soup company called Stockpot Soup was developed by entrepreneurs who started selling product out of the back of their van. They did it manually. They did it by hand. They developed a soup that competed with Campbell Soup. Campbell's bottom. Can you find stockpot soup on the market now? Nope. They got rid of them. They took their assets and they integrated them into their organization and did away with the brand. So we'll see a lot of brands in the industry, but if you boil it down, you need to do the time to do your research. U.S. food industry is complicated in the distribution system. We have many players. And Ron has experienced with those players and understands how they work. In the US industry, food produced at the farms. The farmers can sell directly to the market. Farm to fork is a growing trend. Farmer markets are growing trends. They're out there. Consumers want to know where the product came from. That's where developing a niche. When I go to a farmer's market, I can identify where that product came from. When I go to the grocery store, I can't identify where it came from. I can look at the label and try and figure it out, and I can say, oh, this is from California or this is from Mexico or wherever. But I can't identify specifically where the product came from. Farmer's market, I can talk to the farmer. I have eye-to-eye contact with them. So there's an advantage there. The farmers have an option to sell into the market, which is a very small percentage of the actual sales, or they sell to a food processor or food packer or food manufacturer that will take their product and homogenize it, put it up into a packaged product and sell it into a grocery store or into a food service chain. Food service chains are the buyers at the food service chain has an interest in making sure that the value per serving is there. They look at the cost per serving. They don't care what the brand is. They care what the quality image of the brand is. They care about consistent and appropriate quality, but they're not specifically focused on what is the brand recognition, what is the brand image with my consumers. When I eat something at a restaurant, I have no idea what brand it is. I know whether the quality is good or not. I know whether the restaurant's reputation is for good quality, and that's where their buyers have to make sure that they have the right product. So there's a food service industry, and food service, I always try and encourage people to look at that to get into it because it's a little bit easier to sell a chef or a corporate chef who's looking at a product from a quality standpoint, from a price standpoint, than it is from a consumer who I have to advertise and convince individual consumers spend a lot of money advertising to hit the market to hit individual consumers. So it's a benefit to go to the food service industry. Same thing in manufacturing, for example. If I'm producing a wood product out of Brazil or Argentina or Paraguay, I can try and go to the end consumer, but I've got to pay for distribution, I've got to pay for marketing and advertising. Or I can take that same part, that same component, and sell a component. For example, I can produce the arm to a chair. I don't produce the whole chair, but I can make a lot of money, can have a consistent business producing the ingredients or the components to go into something else. That's something you need to look at is what am I if I am a brand company or I'm a manufacturer or am I a combination of the two? That's where we see private label kick in. A lot of times private label is a company that has a production capacity that is surplus to their brand. So how do they get more products into the market if they do it under other people's brands? From a manufacturing standpoint, I can say, I produce left-handed widgets. Where can that left-handed widget be sold? I don't care if it goes on the shelf with my name on it. I just need to sell product. The flip side of that is I want to build brand. And building brand is where you build consistent relationships and consistent business and brand equity. The more you put into your brand, the better the brand equity is, the better return on investment, the better potential you have to sell your business down the road because that brand has value. A factory can be built. Anybody can come in and build a factory, but the brand image stays with the company. In a U.S. grocery store, for example, an average grocery store, there's 50 to 60,000 SKUs, 50 to 60,000 stockkeeping units. How do I get the grocery store to sell my product? If I'm selling a pasta sauce, they've already got pasta sauces. They'll have five, six, seven, eight, nine different types of pasta sauce in the grocery store. How do I get them to sell mine? It has to be different. They have to make more money selling my product than they make selling something else. You have to remember at the end of the day, businesses are in business for one purpose to make money. So to make the money, they need to make sure they turn that shelf. They turn the linear footage on the shelf, they turn it as frequently as possible, or they have a high enough margin that it compensates for the number of turns. You'll see, for example, in a U.S. grocery store, we don't sell a lot of rose water here in the United States. There is a demand for it. There's this very specific population that focuses on that product, that needs that product for their recipes. It'll be in a lot of stores that normally wouldn't have it. And it'll be at the store, but it's going to be at the bottom shelf. It's not an item that I'm going to buy because I see it. Oh, I need rose water. It's going to be an item that I'm going to go to the clerk in the store and say, hey, I need rose water. Where is it? They'll say it's on aisle 32 at the bottom of the shelf. That particular item, it's not going to sell a lot of it. So I need to make more money per unit than I do a product that's going to sell consistently. I'm going to sell a lot. As a manufacturer, as a brand owner, I want my importer, I want my distributor, I want my retail, I want my broker, I want everybody in that demand chain to make the highest profit they can possibly make. The more profit they make, the more they're going to sell because it's going to motivate them to sell more. There's the 80-20 rule, which means that 20% of your products produce 80% of your revenue. You need to make sure that you move your product into the 20% that's getting people buying it, that's getting people motivated to sell it. Our discussions with Ron will talk about customer acquisition and trade shows and how trade shows work and how the different niches and identify them. We'll learn about the importance of market research and how it is applicable to business. We'll learn about how companies assess their risks. We'll see how in everything we do in business, there is a risk. We need to analyze that risk. If I'm going to a trade show, I need to analyze the risk. What is the cost? What is my risk? What is my exposure there? We need to analyze that. And we need to understand that before we go. Ron and I have both seen situations where companies go to trade shows and they're not prepared. They're not prepared because they don't have the right standards. Government standards, safety standards, sanitation standards, they're not there. They go to a trade show, that's a waste of money. They're spending money to try and market a product into a market that they're not ready for. We've also seen companies where they go to a trade show and they're not ready to export the product because they don't have the capacity. People will come into the United States and say, oh, I want to sell to a Walmart or a Costco or Whole Foods or Trader Joe's. But they don't realize that in most cases they don't import directly to themselves. They utilize importers, distributors, and brokers. They are retailers. They are there to sell the product to the end consumer. So they work with warehouses that work with importers that have brokers that go out and promote the product. Understand that demand chain. The demand chain for food products is totally different than the demand chain for cosmetics or textiles or automobiles. You need to understand your industry and figure out how it applies. You need to target your customer. So you're not just going and hoping you can find a customer. You know who should be buying your product. That's one thing that Ron talks about in his interview here. So I'm excited about having Ron's comments on some of the things we talk about. And hopefully you can understand how he applies those principles. One of the key factors of the Charm Dance framework is markets, the M and charm. And understanding the markets is something we talk about. And when you go into a trade show, when you go marketing your product, in any extent, you need to be able to identify who your customer is. We've talked about having to profile your customer, knowing who they are. So, Ron, one of the challenges that we have, the United States is such a big market. How do I narrow down the market? Once I've identified who my customer is, how do I go about attacking that market to make sure that my product gets in front of the right buyers?

SPEAKER_02 11:18

If you have a product that would feel the Hispanic market, you might want to be selling in Houston or Los Angeles. But you need to divide the country up. And actually, when you're working with brokers, that makes it a lot easier to do because there still are some pretty successful regional brokers. Um there's a really good one in Florida that we worked with. There's a good one which works primarily in like the Maryland, D.C., Virginia area. You know, so don't think you're gonna sell across the United States. We've so many people that come and say, Oh yeah, I'm gonna be successful in the U.S., I'm gonna sell to Walmart and Whole Foods. You know, and you know, they don't even know there's other retailers out there. And that's just not a good way to get business started.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Well, a lot of times, too, they don't have the capacity to sell to a Walmart Whole Foods or Trader Joe's, and you know, Trader Joe's is a good example. We tried with all of the countries that we dealt with to get people from Trader Joe's to take a look at the products we had. And Trader Joe's is like, if we're interested, we'll come to you. Um go on to uh Range Me or some other service that will put your product in front of us. If we're interested, it will take it the next steps. You know, one of the things that we talk about in all doing your research and doing the uh due diligence is to say, I know that I have the capacity to meet the demand for these customers. I can't supply 10,000 stores. I can supply a chain that has a hundred stores or 10 stores to get started and really focus on here's who I should be. And that's one of the things we'd like to do. If you do go to a trade show, know who you're looking for, know what type of customer that you're gonna be able to fit into uh and that you'll be able to service because you know I've seen situations and I've been in situations where I've oversold the ability to produce. Um, you know, and that's terrible because the salesman's like, I had this great big sale. We had a sale to craft on some product, and the company couldn't support it. They did a great press release and it made a big appeal and a big splash of that we were servicing craft, but at the end of the day, the contract fell through because we couldn't supply it. So being honest with yourself and understanding what your capabilities are and your strengths and weaknesses, your competitive advantage are all things that you really need to take a look at as you as you look at the U.S. market or any market. And we're talking food here, but this these concepts apply to everything. Not all systems of distribution are the same. You know, we had this problem with we were working with Morocco, and Ra was involved in this, and the person we were dealing with in Morocco was used to dealing with the textile industry. Well, textile imports and distribution and and manufacturing are completely different than the food industry. And you need to understand that. You can't take a square peg and put it into a round hole. You have to understand this is a section or this is the industry that I'm going into, and this is how they work. And you have to do the due diligence to understand that.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

Yeah, very important.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

I look back in my career, and that work that we did with Morocco was one of the most frustrating. We ended up eating a lot of money we didn't get paid because the person we were dealing with didn't understand what we're doing. We had spent a lot of time trying to educate them. Um, but you know, you need to make sure that your client or your customer or whoever it is that you're working with that really understands the market. And, you know, we tried to educate them is this is how the U.S. food distribution market works. And there's a lot of reports out there, a lot of data out there, um, but you really don't understand it till you get your feet on the ground, until you start networking, till you start talking to people that are into industry. Um, and that takes some time. There's very few products that hit the market and are a boom uh in a short period of time. It's interesting that I've seen, and I don't know if you've seen it where you're at, Ron, but uh Dubai chocolates have gone everywhere this year. The green Dubai chocolates, and they're there, a lot of them are manufactured in Turkey and a lot of other places, but all of a sudden this hit the market. I don't know what their stories of success has been. It'll be interesting to see if I can find that out. But very few products have that success right away. It takes some time to build it up.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah, I was out, I was out with somebody um a couple weeks ago that said, dude, buy chocolate is now in Walmart, so they're you know on the downward trend.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

Yeah. Well, that's the thing too, is you need to understand where do you want, where does your product fit in. Um, you know, you your Whole Foods and a Trader Joe's and a Costco and a Walmart all have different profiles of their customers. Um, they can identify here's their income level, here's their education level, here's what they drive, here's how frequently they shop. And those are all different. And you're not going to be able to sell the same product into Walmart that you're selling into Trader Joe's or Whole Foods because it's a different consumer, but it's also that the buyers don't want to sell the same thing everybody else sells. Because they didn't want to compete with others. They wanted to have something that that was specifically targeted for them, and they wanted to actually have that ingrained into the system uh so that it was a uh regulation that was just built and fit for their uh their execution. You have to offer them something that that gives them a competitive uh advantage. If you're offering the same thing to everybody at the same price, you're probably not going to get very far.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

And Jim, we would we would always recommend to people to look at the regional supermarkets, you know, just not the national chains. So if you can sell to Roach Brothers in Boston, which is 20 stores, or yeah, a big, very successful regional supermarket is Wegman's, which has 129 stores. You know, you can do really well selling into those outlets. Um, ShopRite in New Jersey, I don't know how many stores they have. They have a lot. And you can probably do more business selling through ShopRite in New Jersey than you can selling through Whole Foods, you know, across the entire country. So always look at these regional players because they're move a lot of product. And once you get your product into those stores, the you know, the more national companies will take a look at them as well.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Talking about national companies taking a look at stuff, uh, was probably six years ago when we went to the uh specialty food show, and everybody'd say, Well, how are you doing on Amazon? What are you doing on Amazon? At the same time, I was telling people I'd never buy pickles on Amazon, just didn't make sense. Well, COVID hit, which also forced me into buying stuff from Amazon and food products. But uh, if I want a pickle from Lebanon, for example, I'm not gonna get it at local my local QRC or Albertson Albertson store. I'm gonna get it from Amazon. And so how does the the e-commerce channel change the distribution in the U.S. and kind of change the way for companies to enter the market?

SPEAKER_02 17:52

I mean, it has changed because people can come in and they can get their, you know, store, whatever it's called on Amazon, and can start selling the products here. And actually some of the buyers will look at that data to see what's moving. So it's a it's a way to get started, but I was just doing some research earlier this week for a presentation I'm doing at Rutgers next week. And online sales are growing, but they're still just 15% of food sales in the US. So they were 7% six years ago, so they've doubled. Um but they're still just 15%. And what that means is there's 85% of sales are going through brick and mortar. And you need really need to get into those stores to be successful.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

Yeah, and that's the thing. I think they've got a lot of attention. A lot of people are kind of focused on let's get it onto Amazon. And it is a 15%. There's the 85% out there that's there. And the food service section that uh from an import product, I've always said it's easier to sell a product to a food service industry than it is to a retailer, because at the retail, you have to appeal to individual consumers. In the food service industry, I have to appeal to the chefs, and the chef's gonna look at it from quality and price standpoint. He doesn't care what your brand is, he a lot of times doesn't care what the packaging is as long as the quality is maintained by the packaging. He wants to know how much does it cost and is the quality going to be going to be consistent? Um, and it's a little bit more concentrated. There's uh there's fewer distribution channels um uh and fewer outlets than in than households. It's a challenge. Now, does the specially food show do you guys address the food service industry as well, or do they?

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Well, yeah, about 30% of the buyers came from food service. So it was a very significant part of what was coming to the show. They, you know, they bought a lot of products. You know, and it wasn't always the executive chefs, it was sometimes, you know, the food and beverage managers, you know, um one of our members, this is kind of a strange story, but they were exhibiting with us at Anuga in Cologne, Germany. And guess who came by the booth? The buyer for Olive Garden in the United States. So that company ended up selling their sauce to Olive Garden. You know, what Olive Garden wants, Jim, and you just mentioned it, they want consistency. Whether you go to an Olive Garden in Portland, Maine, or one in Portland, Oregon, they want that product to taste the same. So, you know, they look for companies and give that consistency, and then they can be really big sales for companies. I mean, you still have to go through that multiple distribution system and deal with the supply chain. Um, so it's not easy.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

And it's gonna take time. And that's one thing I think that companies don't realize. They think they're gonna go to a trade show and walk home with purchase orders. And I've always felt the objective of a trade show is to walk home with business cards, walk home with leads and people that you can follow up on. And unfortunately, one of the things that we see with the people that we teach, and I met them at a trade show or I met them at an event or whatever, and it took three years to get them to actually start purchasing product for us. And there was a number of questions along the way, there was a number of samples, and as you say, they were interested in consistency. They wanted to make sure on any buyer, they don't want to have your product on the shelf today and then not be able to get it next week. And that's one of the things that's happening kind of in the fruit industry, the specialty fruit industry, the fresh fruit industry. A product like a blueberry now, you can get the same brand of blueberry 12 months out of the year at this at a grocery store. It's being grown in different hemispheres in different countries, but you're able to get the same variety of blueberry, the same packaging, the same brand on a global basis. So they have a reliable supply that they can count on year-round. A retailer or a manufacturer or anybody doesn't have a situation. They develop a relationship with you, and six months later, six weeks later, they can't get the product, or your price goes through the roof, or you decide to sell to another market. You know, we saw that on the the Georgian wine where we built a market for in the US because the Russian market disappeared for them. As soon as Russia was back, they all flocked back to to Russia because it was easier, it was a market they knew, and they lost their market that they gained in the US. So, uh the the retailers then are like, we need to make sure that we have consistent supply. If we're going to invest our time and invest our shelf space. Uh and they always calculate how much shelf space it is and how much how frequently they're going to turn it and how much money they're going to make on each each line item that's there.

unknown 22:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

It's a complicated business, obviously. You know, to in order to be successful, you need to really do a lot of your homework.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

I guess, you know, we talked about the charm dance framework and you know communications is obviously critical in being able to communicate with your customer on what you have, but it's also understanding and listening to the customer. You know, at a trade show, a lot of times the the people want to talk and sometimes you're better off to listen to what your buyers have to say, listen to what their uh their challenges are and how you can meet those challenges. Again, whether it's food or technology or whatever, you need to figure out what the market actually wants.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

You need to think um in a way that you are fulfilling a need for the buyer. You're not selling them something. And that need might be something that turns quickly. It might be something that makes profit. It might be something which you know they don't have on their shelf and be a whole different experience for their customers. But you need to determine what that need is and then once you determine what that need is you can figure out how you would approach selling it to them.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Yeah and that's the research the understanding the market you know the red quinoa for example we there was no market for red quinoa when we started with it but we understood what the consumer demanded. And we've seen that with a lot of products where there may not be a market at the time that you can say 10,000 cases of this product move annually but if you know what the consumer has and what their trends are and what packaging style and and consumption habits that they have, how frequently do they need it? How frequently do they shop? And one of the challenges we had on dog food into Japan is the U.S. manufacturers wanted to sell a 40 pound bag of dog food to Japan. And the Japanese consumers are getting off the train and carrying their dog food home. So they're not going to carry a 40 pound bag. Nope.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

And they're not going to get a 16 ounce jar of pasta sauce because they don't have it coverage there. They want a six ounce so you need to determine all those different types of things.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Yeah so what what works in one market doesn't work in another you have to understand that. I guess uh as a as a takeaway for a company that's looking to enter the U.S. market, if you could give us kind of three ideas that uh things they need to consider and kind of uh some tricks that they can do to to get past the uh gatekeepers and try and get their product into the market.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Well number one is is target who you want to sell to. You know determine whether you want to sell to food service or to retail or you know how you want to go into the market. And to you know figure that out before you come in. Number two would be actually to identify who would be the proper person and to actually and this is hard to do but try to get an idea of how they like to be communicated with you know do they like an email do they like a phone call do they like a sample? Everybody's different and determine exactly how they want to be communicated with. And I do think a trade show is a good opportunity to show your products. If you are in a country that does trade missions those are better opportunities. So um I know the US does a lot of trade missions. There's one coming up to Mexico in August and um and other countries do that as well. I know a German trade mission just took place in California a month ago. But if you they do trade missions you can come in you can show your product to a small number of buyers you can get good feedback from the buyers and that can really help you position yourself for something which would be bigger that you would do.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

Yeah we've done a number of trade missions coming to the U.S. tied to trade shows so we'll bring people in uh you know we did an Egyptian tour for example we did a tour of some retailers and distributors in the Chicago area some packing operations up in in Michigan and then Washington DC from a import regulation standpoint and then we ended up at the fancy food show and it was a great ability for them to really kind of understand the the full market uh you know to just walk into the trade show I always encourage people before you pay money for the booth at the trade show go to the trade show and you don't physically have to go to it you can go to it online you know you at least have to do your research and your due diligence. And a lot of the trade shows now if you register as a visitor you have access to a database you can identify who the other exhibitors are and that's one thing to think about too is a lot of times the other exhibitors are your customers. So you need to kind of look at who else is there and determine you know how do I get in front of them. And you you mentioned the the importance of targeting and knowing who your customers which again comes back to honestly evaluating yourself, doing your SWOT analysis, understanding what you're competitive at comparative advantage and answering the question why in the world would they buy from me? And it can't be emotion. They should buy me from me because it's the best you'd have to fulfill a need for them is what you need to do. Yeah it's the the Adam Smith philosophy of when I buy something I'm giving up less than I'm receiving. And when I sell something I'm receiving than I'm giving up. And that's what you got to kind of think about is what what is it and what are their alternatives? What else could they buy with that money? The other thing that that we touch on it too is a lot of times your product can be an ingredient going into something else. It can be a component and we talk about food but even on on wood and everything else it you don't have to sell the chair if you can sell the armrest, you know? And you may not be able to put your name on the armrest and so you can't you know beat your chest and say our chairs are in the White House or wherever you're at uh but you can get them there. And sometimes you you got to swallow your pride and say what are what is our business? Are we in the brand building business or are we in the manufacturing business? And some companies look at them both ways. And that's where the private label efforts come in a lot of times is that a factory wants to run at 100% capacity and they can't move it all with their brand. So they can use some of that capacity to produce other people's product. So lots of different opportunities out there. Yeah appreciate your time today and uh wish you luck in your continued efforts and hopefully uh some of our clients too can can reach out to you uh and then maybe you can give them some assistance in entering the the U.S. market and understanding the the efforts there. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Happy to do that Jim and thank you very much. Thank you for all you've done for me over the last four years.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

It's been fun yeah you've you've been one of the uh people that I enjoy working with because I don't have to teach you. Yeah well I've learned a lot from you anyway even though you weren't teaching me. Okay well and I've learned a lot from you and I guess that's what makes a situation work is what we both gain from it. So um thanks a lot and uh have a nice evening. Okay great thank you very much. Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Bye so that's it for today's episode of Ten Keys to Thrive. Head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and subscribe to the show. Be sure to head on over to tenkeystotrive.com to pick up a free copy of Jim's gift and join us on the next episode.