The Clinician Transition

How To Get a Recruiter's Attention in 6 Seconds

• The Clinician Transition • Season 1 • Episode 6

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We asked Katie Martocchio, Head of Talent at Prompt Health, our listener-submitted job application and interview questions.

Be ready to leave knowing:

• What an ATS vs. what a human looks at
• Cover letters vs. Pre-screen questions
• How to write outreach that earns replies
• Six-month plan to become an obvious hire
• Applying to multiple roles with intent
• Signals of a healthy recruiting process
• Her favorite questions to ask on an interview

If you like this, please consider sharing or giving us your version of a little internet love so we can keep making this for you.

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Welcome & Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00

Good evening and welcome back to the Clinician Transition. This is Emma Brady, and I could not be happier to have a very special guest, our first non-therapist guest on the show. Her name is Katie Martaccio, and it's an episode that we have wanted to record for a long time. We're going to have an episode chock full of resources all about applying for jobs and going through the job application process. And Katie is really well positioned to speak to this because she is head of talent at prompt. So there's if you've ever applied to prompt, there's a chance her or someone on her team has read your resume, or maybe you've even spoken to her, and she can speak to her experiences and then just on behalf of other talent acquisition and what recruiters and people in that industry are looking for. Katie, thank you so much for being on here. It's gonna be a great show.

Bedside To Boardroom Game

SPEAKER_02

Hello, hello. Yeah, very excited. Um, and and just here to be a resource any way I can. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00

Thought we would get you introduced with a little game called From the Bedside to the Boardroom, which when I thought this up, it's it's meant to be an innocent, fun game. There's no other connotation with it.

SPEAKER_01

I love it.

SPEAKER_00

And so essentially it's just gonna be bedside meaning clinical. We're gonna give you a common clinical situation. And we were hoping you could tell us how someone would put their resume to make a professional. Because that is it's meant to be silly, but also highlight the real task that a therapist would do when thinking about transitioning roles and how do we translate what you do in a clinical setting onto your resume. Yeah, I love it. So scenario A patient throws a bedpan at me. How would you put that on a resume? Okay. Um, I would say we're gonna focus on conflict resolution.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, this is so funny. So it's not funny, but it's funny hearing it. I apologize. But I would say conflict resolution, right? It's not so much about maybe the object being thrown at you, but how you maintained your cool, how you maybe de-escalated the situation. And kind of that I think is a good way to kind of segue the clinical side of it to see I could handle a disgruntled customer or some kind of pain point, you know, in that sense.

SPEAKER_00

That's okay, that's awesome. Okay. How about I survived a 12-hour shift without a bathroom break?

SPEAKER_02

First of all, no, good for you, but no, you're better than me, stronger than me. Operational resilience, you know, I think that's a good one, especially like if you're looking to get into health tech. There's a lot of crunch time, go live days. You're really working to the last minute some days. And so I think kind of transitioning it that way could be good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Oh, endurance and time management sounds like.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

How about explained how to use crutches to the same patient 12 times in a single session?

SPEAKER_02

Hmm. How long's that session? No, I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

I would say adaptation. You're adaptable, you're, you have strong communication skills, you really know how to meet the person where they are based on their level of understanding.

What Is An ATS Really

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. Well, thank you. I hope that helps everyone just get in the mood for job applications because it's sometimes can feel tedious or really overwhelming. But if we can have just a little sense of humor about it and take a step back, it becomes a bit more manageable. So the other really fun thing about this episode is we had some listeners send their questions in. So thank you to everyone who participated. So let's just start there. Let's start right at the beginning. What is an ATS? And a big reason this comes up is we hear, okay, your resume is going to go through an ATS, which is an applicant tracking system. And say you're applying for, we'll do a call back to our last episode, customer success. If I'm applying to customer success and I tailor my resume to put in words from that job application into my resume, is there some magical thing on the back end that's saying, oh, this person's a 98% match to this job because I tweaked my resume specifically to that job?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, but we don't solely rely on that. Um, you know, and so in a in a quick, we need to fill this tomorrow. We have 2,000 applications. We do have tools in place where we can kind of look at and submit into the system the non-negotiables. So if we're talking client success, do they have a clinical background? Have they transitioned out? If they haven't transitioned out, do they have leadership, you know, experience? They don't have leadership experience. What outside of their current role have they done to prep? Is there, you know, some courses or anything along those lines? So it's not so much just cookie cutter where have they transitioned? Are they in SaaS? Are they, you know, out of that clinical setting? So that's why it's like a yes and no um kind of answer there.

SPEAKER_00

And then, and it's okay if you know the answer to this, but let's say I'm applying to engineering. If I apply to one company with an engineering resume, and then I apply to another company with an engineering resume, do I need to tweak my resume between those two companies for the same job? Will that help stand out and get noticed? It sounds like it might be, yes.

Tailoring Resumes Across Companies

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I is it's a lot of work and I know that. And job hunting in general is stressful and a lot of work, but it helps to put that work in, um, you know, and kind of tailor it while still telling the truth and matching your background, but tailoring it to the company's mission, what the actual job description entails, right? Because I could be hiring an engineer right now with specific tech stack, specific background. The company down the road could be hiring an engineer that's slightly different in the job responsibilities, again, background, anything along those lines. So I do think creating some sort of variation. And I'm not saying you have to start from scratch either, right? It's maybe just changing how you describe what you've been doing, or if there is a gap in your background to what the role entails or what we're looking for, finding a way to kind of showcase what you've done to prove, look, I might not have done what we're looking for yet. But with this experience, I think this is a good bridge to show I can get to that if I had the experience or opportunity.

SPEAKER_00

So what I'm hearing is the ATS is real. Yes. It is real and it is worth your time to tail your resume for the company and the job.

SPEAKER_02

And there's humans behind it. We have AI tools to help, but I can tell you confidently, my team, a human being, will look at every single resume at some point or another.

Cover Letters Vs Application Questions

SPEAKER_00

That's great. So hopefully that's encouraging too all. It's yes, it's a little bit worth the effort, but you're, and we've said this before too, very similar to the LinkedIn episode with sending the messages, you're gonna be better off doing less work that's higher quality than just a spray and pray approach and hope at some point someone reaches out to you. So it's not time wasted. Okay. So you kind of said this too. You led me into my next question. You said something about 2,000 applicants for a single role. So, what's the best way to stand out? Do you actually read cover letters? Yeah, great question.

SPEAKER_02

Think, and maybe this is a hot take. I I do think cover letters are a thing of the past. Um, you know, as recruiters, you have to think about it as a first impression thing, right? We have maybe six seconds to review an application, really get an idea. Is there a fit? If there's not a direct fit, are what are the gaps? Is it something that's, you know, we we can still work with? I think the only time a cover letter could be beneficial is if, let's say you're a clinician wanting to get into project management. You don't have exact, yes, you have skills that it can transfer over, but maybe you don't have direct project management skills. That's where I think a cover letter could be beneficial, where you're explaining that gap in motivation to kind of get into that. But general cover letters, I hate to say it, but we often don't spend a lot of time on them. It's more the resume, the pre-screen application questions. That's another thing, actually, going back to the ATS, I want to add too. Take your time when applying. You know, kind of similar to what you were saying with LinkedIn messages. Make it personal. I mean, we can tell instantly if you're using Chat GPT, whether you've wrote you've written it for 12 different jobs and you haven't tailored the question or the answer to the question or anything like that. I think that is one thing that's another way to stand out is drop the cover letter and spend more time intentionally filling out those questions, you know, in that sense. Some of them are yes and no, but we also have open-ended ones. So we can learn a little bit more about you and your background and how you could be a good fit. So it's another selling point for yourself.

SPEAKER_00

So it's sort of like the modern application is less of a self-directed cover letter. And a lot of these roles have questions that the recruiter or the team cares about. So spend your time answering those and skip a generic cover letter for the most part. Sounds like the takeaway there.

SPEAKER_02

100%.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And maybe use chat GPT to get you going. But I agree, it's becoming very it's getting easier and easier to spot when it's AI and people are looking for authentic applications. So make sure that you're putting your personal touch on it.

SPEAKER_02

We're spending the time looking at it. We want people that I'm not saying you need to eat, breathe, sleep, client success, but I want to see someone that's excited and put the effort in. If you were just, you know, I've even seen it where people leave it blank. I hate to say it, but that's almost an automatic rejection, and you could be the best candidate for the role. Because it really comes down to effort and wanting it.

Messaging Recruiters That Get Replies

SPEAKER_00

So that's so there you go, guys. Just even putting in more than the bare minimum effort will make you stand out. Cause most people, especially the ones who are going for a more volume-based approach, probably aren't standing out. Whether they are in person or not, their application itself isn't highlighting that. Okay. So that's that's encouraging. If everyone just gives a little bit more effort, they're more likely to get spotted. And then are there any sort of we already had a LinkedIn episode, but for specifically for a recruiter, because our last one is a lot about networking. What stands out to you and what's going to make you respond to a message and what's maybe going to make you less likely to respond or know that it's not the quality you're looking for.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I think kind of going back to the theme of AI, and again, I'm not anti-AI. I think there's so many benefits and it can really help in your job search. The amount of times, even in just one day, I could get, you know, 50 messages. Obviously, ebbs and flows, not every day. 40 out of those 50 are the exact same cookie cut cookie cutter response where you want to set up a time, you know, I'm interested in prompt. No real detail, but somehow still very long and doesn't give much, right? And it's very similar to resumes where it's almost like a six-second scroll, right? What are the okay, what are they looking for? What's the position they're interested in? What's their background? Right. We're looking for quick things that we can kind of point out and be like, oh, that'd be a good fit for client success or engineering, like you said, right? So I'd say number one is just making it personal, but to the point, right? You you don't want and another thing too that I see a lot of is hey, can I steal 15 minutes of your time? Like I'd love to kind of talk through why I'm a good fit for this role. I I love the ambition, so I don't want that to ever come across like I don't by any means. But you have to be realistic, right? Like we, as recruiters, we don't have the time for exploratory calls. I I wish I could take 15 minutes for every single person that reached out to me because I've been on the other side and the job search is hard, right? And I want to make it easier for you. But at the same time, there's such a time management battle of we're spending our full days in interviews back to back, trying to find the best talent when we're not in interviews. We're running through LinkedIn, those messages, we're running through the applicant tracking system, we're doing the admin tasks. We are doing so many different things all at once that we need that quick message that could stand out. Whether it's, hey, you know, I'm trying to think of an example, something quick and witty to catch your attention. It's almost like sales to a degree, right? How are you gonna get someone and draw them in instead of just, I'm interested in client success because I am a PT of 12 years. Thanks so much. Yeah, I love that. Thank you. I'm gonna now remember your name and I'm gonna go look at your application, but it it's not standout wait. Like, wow, you stopped me in my tracks. I'm interested in you.

SPEAKER_00

Can you think of one recently that stopped you in your tracks? Doesn't have to be a therapist, just anyone.

SPEAKER_02

I think one was, and it's just I think human nature, where someone kind of took the time to read my bio or something like that within LinkedIn and was like, I love this. Like, this is exactly what you know I'm all about. Again, granted, it was to hire another recruiter. So I think that also helps. Um, but just I think taking the time to understand what you want, what role you're interested in, and how you're going to set yourself apart from every other person that's sending a message. So I that didn't really give you a real example, so I apologize.

SPEAKER_00

That's okay. I mean, it's I'm just happy that it's similar advice to what we gave on our LinkedIn episode where it's just message the person like you give a shit. Excuse my language. Literally, absolutely act like you care, act like you spent time, Katie or and we're using Katie impromptu a lot as an example, but she's speaking on behalf of other companies, other recruiters in this similar situation. They want, they're real people on the other side. So imagine if you're this person, what is just a little something extra you can do to stand out? Okay, I saw this article you wrote. I saw that I really liked um the marketing that prompt or who whatever company did at the conference. I noticed that you did this fundraiser, whatever it is. It doesn't have to be about the recruiter themselves, but just something about the company that shows, hey, I'm really interested in this company. Here's what resonates with me, and you're making it about them, not about you and your experience.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Show that you're not sending this to 12 different recruiters, right? Show me that you took the time to write that. It's similar to applications. Show me, like you said, you give me, you you give a shit.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Uh Sam McKenna says, Show me you know me. She got she ended up getting that. She ended up getting that trademarked. Show me you know me.

Six-Month Plan To Become An Obvious Hire

SPEAKER_01

I like that. And I might be uh using that one.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so definitely give her a follow on LinkedIn. She's like one of the queens of outreach, and even people who seem like there's not a lot of stuff on them in the internet, you can usually find something. So definitely follow her content if you're interested in that. All right, so shifting gears a little bit. If I'm a clinician transitioning into tech, what should I do in the next six months to become an obvious hire? I love that question already because it's growth mindset.

SPEAKER_02

It's not, I want it now, how can I get it? Right. It's okay, this is my end goal. What do I need to do to get there in the most successful way? So I think you're already on the right track just with that thought of wanting to build your skills out before you just jump in. The million dollar question, how do we build skills out when we don't have the experience and the job requires it, right? I think there's a few things. Number one is, and it sounds silly, but sit with yourself. What do you want out of this transition? What are your goals? What's your favorite thing about your current job? What's your least favorite thing that you never want to see again? Um, sit with that. You know, I think it's beneficial, even it sounds silly, but create a pros and cons list of current situation. What do you like? What do you not like? What are you looking for? What are your goals? I'm just getting that on paper solidifies all the thoughts, you know, internally and it kind of leads you to what that right position is. So I think that's step one. Step two, once you figure it out and we can kind of go off of your last, you know, episode on client success. And I also think that's a pretty common or popular route for those transitions from clinical settings. So you figured out you want client success because you love educating, you love personal relationships, watching people succeed and grow and heal, you know, whatever it might be. So now we're gonna start doing some research. What does the day-to-day entail? Is this exactly what I envisioned? Every company is different. I think a good thing to do is kind of look at a few different job descriptions, whether it's you really want to stay in health tech or you just want to get into SaaS or B2B, whatever it is. Look at a few different industries, get a feel for the standard what does client success mean? You know, because it's different to every company to a degree. Get a general understanding. And then I think the next step there could be a course in maybe aspireship or some other group. But there's so many times, especially like on the client success side or even business development team, people take these aspireship courses. It sets you up for success because you now know the nitty-gritty what success needs to look like generally, right? Every company is a little different. But then you also get a deeper understanding of, yeah, this is the right thing. This is what I want. Because the last thing, you know, again, going back to just job hunting in general is stressful. How do we make it as seamless as we can, right? And that's just going in confident, prepared. Another thing, which I'm sure Emma, you've said multiple times, especially with like the networking side, reach out to other client success managers. Again, using that, you could do say any position. Talk to them on LinkedIn. Hey, what do you love? What was hard with your transition from clinical care to now, you know, working from home or anything it might be in that sense. And just lean on your community. That's, you know, that's why we have it. And, you know, it they help and every experience is a little different, but at least gets you to the right thought process of this is the right fit for me, and here's how and how I can do this. So I was long-winded, but I think there's a few steps essentially to really get to that. And I think six months is a great timeline.

Applying To Multiple Roles Strategically

SPEAKER_00

So it sounds like just making sure that what you're working towards is what you want, not just, oh, this seems like something I could do. Like be really intentional with the role you're looking for and then focus on that. And that that's another question we had of sometimes I hear from people, oh, I've applied to these three different roles at your company and they're super different. What do you think about that approach? Is there, have you seen that be successful, or is it better to really focus on what you just said? Hey, I know this is what I want, here's why.

SPEAKER_02

I think there's a split answer here. I think sometimes, yes, that's that's a good thing, if they're realistically close in nature. So, two jobs that come to mind, again, just based off what I'm currently hiring for. It's like, you know, client success manager or client or clinical tech support or or something along those lines where it's kind of in the same family and there's similar responsibilities and those growth paths either way. So, like for that, if I'm seeing you apply to client success and clinical tech support, that is not a yellow flag. I'm not concerned by that. And it makes sense to me. If I see you applying, again, let's say you're you're a clinician, applying to billing, engineering, court engineer, sales, science, success, really anything that's posted, I get wanting to get your foot in the door, right? And just get notice. It's just not the way. Because to me, a quick glance, again, not knowing the person, they just want to be here and they don't care how. And I get that. But there needs to be intentionality because that's where you are successful. You want to enjoy what you're doing. You want to be passionate about it because that's where, again, like that success really just brews. And if you're just kind of, I just want to get in the, I just want my foot in the door. We don't see the most success there, unfortunately. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So it's okay if you don't know. Job applications and interviews aren't the place to find out. Yes, figure that out before you're applying, focus on one avenue. If you want to go to engineering, go all in, figure that out, do like what Katie's saying, do informational interviews with people, reach out in the TCT Slack, we have a bunch of engineers in there, things like that. And then when you're applying, you are confident and you that comes through on your resume and your application.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And you can always pivot too, right? Like you might think you really want client success after conversations. Maybe it's it's not as exciting as you thought, or it's not the right fit. It's okay to pivot. I'm talking more when you apply to seven jobs within a week. But if it's you applied to client success six months ago and then you applied to, you're really interested in billing, you apply to billing today, that's very different, which I also wanted to clarify.

unknown

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then that talk about maybe a reason for a cover letter. If I've done some exploration, I've taken these courses, I know I want billing. And here's the reason I'd be really good at it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And even that is a LinkedIn message too, right? Like that's personal. It describes the gap and why you want to do something. And yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And also a lot of this is the long game to our listeners. It's not, okay, I ping, I reposted this on the TCT LinkedIn page today of someone sharing their story. If they applied to prompt, I think two or three times, and then they got the role and they just got a promotion. So make sure that you're not giving up on the first application. It's it's gonna take a second sometimes, especially for those roles that are really popular.

Judge Companies By Their Recruiting Process

SPEAKER_02

And one thing on that, too, that is truly, truly one of my favorite aspects of my job. And something that we do, I know here at Prompt, I know some of my other colleagues that work in other industries, they do the same thing. In that applicant tracking system, right? Let's say, Emma, you go through an interview process for client success. You make it to second rounds or even third rounds, we don't move forward. Guess what? That's not the end all be all either. And I just want to encourage you too, with that long game comment, keep trying. You know, I can tell you right now, multiple times in the last three years that I've been with this company. I've had people that have interviewed here once, twice. They're here now. And there's nothing more empowering than being able to give that offer call and being like, look, we did it. Like we I sound silly, but I'm like, we did it together. Like, no, we we tag candidates essentially, where we'll put you as runner up or could be a good fit, you know, whatever it might be. There's so many different ways that we stay organized and remember you. And and I just want to, again, say it for the second time, but encourage you to just keep applying because it's a no right now, it's not a no forever.

SPEAKER_00

And so, similar to the last episode where we talked about questions you can ask in an interview process to see if it's a good in the this example, customer success organization, your experience with the talent acquisition team when you're applying will be a direct reflection of that company. So if you're getting like I know Katie said she's really busy, her team's really busy. Typically, talent acquisition people are, but if they're not getting back to you, they're not even giving you an answer, you're just getting weird vibes from them. They're act, they're acting like it's a huge burden to be talking to you if you're on a phone screen, that sort of thing. That's generally a Reflection of the company, one way or another. So a good recruiter is someone where maybe you click with them and for whatever reason it didn't work out and you organically keep in touch here and there and then saying, Hey, I was thinking about you. I think this role will be good for you. That's a really good sign for a company. And that's one you want to put some effort in sticking around with and staying on top of them.

Interview Prep: What Recruiters Ask First

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. The best way I could describe that from my experience is those those recruiters are the employee first kind of recruiters that they come from companies that focus on employee experience before they even look external. So yeah, I think that's a telltale sign too is pay attention to how your interview process is and are the recruiters or even hiring managers getting back to you in a timely manner. That can vary every company, right? But I'd say timely manner, my definition of that is within a week after your interview. You know, you're not the one following up, checking in a week later. Hey, any update? And don't get me wrong, does that happen sometimes? I know firsthand I'm not perfect. There are times where I'm out of office, or you know, there's this crazy deadline and I get kind of hyper-focused on one thing, and maybe I go five to six days without contacting a candidate. It happens, but I try my best. And especially just from my team, my rule of thumb is three to four days max.

SPEAKER_00

And that's that's not always everyone's experience. So that's a big kudos to you because I know that's not effortless. So speaking of interviews, I got the interview. Now what? What are things you kind of wish? I'm gonna leave this somewhat open-ended for you. What are things you wish people with a focus on those career transitioners wish they maybe did more of or maybe held back from doing during an interview or any tips and tricks around this topic? Yeah, so from the beginning, my first test question, we can call it.

SPEAKER_02

What do you know about prompt? It sounds silly. Again, it kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier, Emma, of the effort. What do you know? I don't expect you to know absolutely everything, you know, down to the beginning to where we are now, all of that. But just show me you know we're more than just an EMR system. Again, speaking specific to my company. Show me that, you know, you followed the social media, or if you don't have social media on LinkedIn, you noticed, you know, there's a lot of tenure or anything. Just give me something that isn't something that you'd get from just asking Chat GPT or Googling what my company is. So that's number one. And again, it does you don't have to go too far into giving me a 15-minute spiel. Just stand out, be unique there. Show me that you made an effort. I say is number one. From there, another question I like to ask is kind of just talk me through what do you think the day-to-day of this role is? And that's not a test question, right? Because like I said before, every company has their own definition of each role. Generally, they're they're relevant and and you know, similar in nature, but they're a little different. What I why I ask that is I want to hear that you are thought out in this transition. You really know this is what you want. And when I say that's probably not the best way to put it because you don't know, right, until you you're in it or you know, things like that. I just want to know that you sat with this decision and it's not just I'm burnt out, I just need to get out. I'm I'm burnt out, and yes, that's okay. But I really sat with it. I'm trying to figure out again what I love about my job, what I'll never miss. And when I started kind of going through that list, I noticed client success checks off all the boxes I love and it doesn't hit any of the ones that, you know, I lose sleep over. And that's what drew me, right? So again, it kind of going back to that intentionality aspect. And then from there, another thing that I've noticed, and again, it's not like an instant disqualifier, but kind of like what I said earlier is someone that just wants to get their foot in the door. Yes, I I think that's okay to say, but add more as to why you want the foot in the door. Again, it's not just, well, it's a great company and it looks good. Yeah, let's do it. It's more, I want that excitement and I want that. This is I I'm excited. You know, one thing I also like to ask that my co-founder Mike actually, you know, gave me for an example is ask the candidate about something that they're passionate about. See the way their face lights up. Are they is their face lighting up to a degree? The same when they're talking about this new career opportunity or anything like that, I think is another thing. Facial expressions, body language, and just being present. And I know interviews can be nerve-wracking. It's funny enough, I I interview for a living when I'm on the other side. I I get nervous. So I'm right there with all of you. Take a second before the interview, just sit with yourself, take a few breaths, do whatever you need to do to kind of just calm down, recenter, and and you know, you're you're in the right spot for a reason. So just go in with that confidence that you are in the right spot.

Translating Clinical Stories To SaaS

SPEAKER_00

So I don't want to cut off your train of thought, but there's so many. No, no. So we said, what tell me about what do you know about the company? What's the day-to-day for the job? What was the third one?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, my God, Emma.

SPEAKER_00

What's what is the company? What is the what do you know about the role?

SPEAKER_02

I think the day-to-day is. Yeah. What do you know about the role and the intentionality behind that? The question I like to ask too is like ask I ask them about something that they're passionate about to see are they lighting up that same way?

SPEAKER_00

So I wasn't trying to quiz you on your own questions. The reason I wanted to back up on them is everything you said has nothing to do with your career experience. Anyone can answer those questions, whether you've been a therapist for one day or a hundred days, you've done all the courses, you've done none of the courses. Okay. I think that's really important to highlight because I think people get really in their heads, really nervous, I don't have the experience. It's not as much about that. It's the I care about the company, I care about the job, and I know what I'm getting into. And I'm confident about my ability to do this and why I'm doing this. I am running towards something, not away from something. Okay. Because Katie and her team, they do a really good job. It's genuine, they make you feel comfortable. They aren't your friends. This is a professional conversation that you're having. This is not the time to vent to someone about things that are bothering you at the clinic, like being burnt out or not having the schedule that you want, or not having the vacation time that you want. This is not the person you're having that conversation with. That might be true, and you're allowed to have those thoughts, but back to what we're talking about with the boardroom, the bedside to the boardroom game. We are going to translate that a little bit. We're not lying. We're just what you also said this earlier, we're selling ourselves. No one wants, oh, I'm super burnt out. I hate PT. I want to get out of it. That is the antithesis of what we're doing, like using our company as an example. That's the opposite of what we're trying to do. We're super jazzed about the industry. We love it. We like what we're doing. That's not the energy we're trying to bring to the company. And I'm guessing there's, I can't think of a company that would want that.

SPEAKER_02

And I can talk from just being a recruiter to other companies. It's the exact same thing. That's just the blueprint of interviewing or even interview 101, right?

Keep Answers Tight And Impactful

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And so that's one of the reasons why the TCT code of conduct, you're not allowed to say burnout. It's not that we're minimizing it or that we aren't acknowledging it. It's that a lot of the stuff in that group is public. And so I'm that's me and Emily doing you a favor that you're presenting yourself in a professional way and we're we're focused on being productive, positive, not focusing on the negativity.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. So and then I'm guessing you probably at some point, do you ask about the role and and where if someone didn't have any traditional experience, how would someone highlight or what would they need to focus on, or how can they be successful in that aspect of the screen?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So two parts to that. One thing that I like to do to ease that stress, because you know, I'm talking to clinicians very often, is I like to ask, well, what have you done in your current role to help you transition out of that clinical setting? So you might not have the exact background where you've onboarded customers. Again, kind of tying back to client success theme we've been talking tonight. Okay, well, how have you kept a patient on board and going through the, you know, treatment plans and again, things along those lines is transferable. So I think the key thing to take away here is how can what you are doing right now transfer into the day-to-day? Show me even like a lot of times I'll ask behavioral questions. Give me a time win. Give me an example of uh one, for an example, is give me a time when you turned an unhappy customer into a happy one. Use a patient experience story, right? Because it's very similar to a degree. Um, you know, you're you're selling your treatment plan to a person that maybe is not bought in. Um, you know, that's transferable to client success. Maybe that it was the business decision, but the clinician didn't want to switch EMRs or whatever it might be. Your job, again, on client success is to get them bought in and utilizing that tool to the best of their ability. So show me you can do that through a patient experience.

Smart Questions Candidates Should Ask

SPEAKER_00

And one other thing to call out too is Katie and comp and our company, we're used to hiring therapists from non-traditional roles. So the question she just gave, she teed you up for that. She knows the drill. We've done this a, we know we've talked to a lot of you. If you're applying for a company that maybe doesn't have that volume or sometimes even specifically looking, just make sure that you're going out of your way to point that out. Don't wait for them to ask you that question. So always come prepare, join an interview with something you did really well that you're proud of, an area of opportunity feedback that you implemented, something you want to get better at, and something that you're actively already did get better at. If you have those four stories, you probably can handle pretty much most of the interview. And then making sure that you come prepared with really good questions to ask them. And then those sometimes those questions can help you highlight yourself if you need to, if they haven't asked you what you were hoping for. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

And I, you know, my experience is, you know, as a recruiter, we want to hear questions from you, right? Like you're we have 30 minutes, 45 minutes, whatever it is. You are learning just about just as much about us as we are learning about you. We both want to make sure it's a good match. So definitely come prepared with questions, you know, kind of know, know what you don't know, right? And then kind of embrace it and kind of tying back to what you said, Emma, and I think is super valuable. Again, I'm used to kind of working with clinicians, so it's a little different in my scenario. But if it's a different company that isn't owning that, look, I I don't have that direct experience, but I think given this scenario that I've dealt with or what I've learned from this, I think this is how I would handle it. Hypothetical answers are okay, you know, in that sense as well, if you don't have the exact experience or whatever it is that they're asking.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. That's a good call. Here's how I would imagine I would handle that, and I would be open to coaching. And then when we're talking about giving examples and answering these, try to keep your answers two to three sentences max. And the way you do that is having these stories pre-prepared. Have, hey, I have my notes right here. Let me just look at my notes. If you start rambling, you're gonna lose people. Try really hard to be succinct. It'll also show that you're prepared. And that's gonna most companies are looking for that.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And then at, you know, on the flip side, if an interview ends early, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing, just means you're efficient and maybe they just like, yep, this is good. I don't need to spend any more time. So don't feel like you have to fill the full full time. Yeah. And don't overthink the timing thing. So then I wanna speaking of your time, I want to wrap this up. And I know it's gonna be role specific and everything like that. Do you have some sort of go-to questions to ask that are generally well received, or maybe some ones to avoid? Like from candidates or ones that I ask from candidates.

SPEAKER_02

From candidates. Oh, that's a good question. I think the one that, and I and I get why it's asked, but the one where it's well, how'd I do? Uh, you know, I don't love that one and I get the ambition, right? So it's a kind of double-edged sword, and I'll own that maybe it's just a Katie doesn't like that. It just puts the recruiter in a weird spot where, you know, we don't know. To give you background, it's not just a Katie decision, right? It's a team decision where I will go and meet with the team after I meet with you. And hey, here's the key takeaways, areas I think that they'd excel, areas that I think would need coaching or whatever it might be. So it's hard for me to answer point blank and be like, you know, yeah, you you killed it. We're gonna hire you because I don't have that power. Questions I love, questions that I think are good and intentional. And I feel like intentional is the theme of our conversation tonight. Culture. You know, you're gonna spend a lot of time at work. You wanna know who you're working with, and you'll learn as you meet with people, like Emma said, right? You'll get a lot out of what you see from communication, you know, conversations, anything along those lines. But understanding and being interested in the culture, I think is really good. It's a lot outside of the actual day-to-day. Other things that I've asked or I've been asked, and today actually I was asked one where someone was transitioning and they asked, knowing what you know about that team and maybe a recent hire that has a similar background to me, what set them apart to be as successful as they are from an onboarding perspective? Is there anything I can do right now to help set myself up so that when the time, if if I get to hired and I can start, I'm already ahead of the curve, right? So just kind of again showing that initiative, the excitement of I want more. I'm hungry. What else can I do? Um, I think is is those are the standouts. And maybe that I'm saying those too because they they happen today. But yeah, I'd say anything that's intentional and just stay curious because you you want, you know, like I said, you only have a certain amount of time to learn about these companies and meet with people. You want to make sure you're making that right decision.

Thank You Notes That Stand Out

SPEAKER_00

Never say, oh, you already answered all my questions. I don't have any. Just don't do it, you guys. Just have a list of so many that can't possibly happen or ask it in a different way. Culture is a great one to ask about because you're interviewing them too, by the way. If they're giving a bad answer about culture, that's a red flag. Just because you get the job doesn't mean you want to take it. So think about that kind of question. I agree with Katie. I my least favorite question is um, you know, what's what do you have any concerns about my candidacy on why you wouldn't hire me? That just puts us in such a weird spot. I would never answer that truthfully. So it's just a waste of a question. Even if I have a list of things, I'm never gonna actually tell you that. And then, you know, asking for feedback on the interview, same thing, kind of just puts us in a weird position. Questions that are good. And then anything about what's what it what did the the top person in this role do to get there? And then maybe who someone who has an area of opportunity, what could they be working on? And what sort of feedback have they been given? Asking about the onboarding, all of that just shows that you're really interested in the company. And then just as we're wrapping up other things that sometimes the thank you notes, those actually matter. And that's another thing that the majority of people aren't doing, and it takes two seconds to write. But that's another thing though. If it comes two seconds after the interview, maybe just let it sit for an hour. Hey, I've been thinking about our conversation. And it's also a time I just had someone the other day uh for an internal thing. Like, what it what should I do about this? And I said, Oh, just put in your thank you note. And they said, Oh, I already emailed them back. Just think about it. If there's something that you hadn't said yet, that's a really good place. Hey, I was thinking about my answer for this, and I just want to add on this one thing. And it shows that you're at least that's for me, I think, is really impressive versus hey, thanks for the time. Let me know the next steps. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I agree there, Emma. I I think I always tell people that ask for advice that give it 12 hours. It's a 12-hour rule, right? Sit in it. It's almost like, you know, you're in an argument. 12-hour rule. Sit in it before you reply, you know, because I know firsthand there's times like I hang up on a call and I'm like, oh, I should have said that or I should have asked that. You know, it comes later. And so I think sending it that next day, there's nothing wrong with that. And, you know, I even say this to my hiring managers because it's a two-way street. If you're reaching out saying thank you, hiring managers should at least try to respond or acknowledge your message. Things happen. So we're not perfect, right? But at the same time, if you're taking the time, you want to see that hiring manager give you that same time back. One thing I also want to note here is some companies do keep their hiring managers' emails private. So if you don't have their email, you can do two things. You can ask the recruiter or your point of contact, whether it's a source or whoever you're working with, right? Hey, can I can you share my thanks with them? And then enter, enter, put your thank you note. And typically I know firsthand, I will forward that message over to the hiring managers. Or I've had times where you don't have them, okay, reach out to Katie or the recruiter. Hey, is there any way I could get their emails? I just want to send a quick follow-up and thank them. Most of the time, within reason, we're okay to give it. And the other thing too is it's not rocket science sometimes to figure out company emails. Usually it's first name dot last name at the company. But again, there's ways around it. Um, and if there is, you're at that dead end, you have that point of contact. Reach out to them, lean on them, and we can get you that message to the team.

SPEAKER_00

Well, speaking of thank yous, thank you, Katie, for joining us. Like I mean this when I say it, that you've opened the door for hundreds and hundreds of therapists to get non-traditional roles, you and your team, and it means more than we can say, truly, that you give us a chance, give us the experience that you have. So thank you for that. You do so much for us. Is there anything we can do for you to make your life easier?

Closing Gratitude & Final CTA

SPEAKER_02

Keep applying. You don't give up. And it sounds so the, you know, so uh cliche, but seriously, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. Sometimes it just takes a little bit of work and just be patient. And that's one thing I'll say too, is especially on the recruit the LinkedIn side, bear with me. I promise I will get back to you. It might take a little bit, but I will get back to you when I have that downtime, is is the only other thing I'd leave you with.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you so much. Thank you all for listening. If you like this, please consider sharing it, commenting, posting, just giving us a little internet love so we can keep making this for you. Good night, and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you.