Episode 2: How to build your personal brand, with Petra Zink

What is your personal brand, and why do you need to prioritise it as a consultant?

In this episode of Reinventors, Mel Loy and Fady Ramzy engage in a thought-provoking conversation with Petra Zink, an expert in personal branding and consulting. Petra shares her journey from corporate marketing to helping executives and entrepreneurs systemize their knowledge into monetizable intellectual property. She emphasizes the importance of personal branding, not as a means of self-promotion, but as a way to communicate value and attract opportunities. Petra discusses the misconceptions surrounding personal branding, particularly the idea that it equates to bragging or being an influencer, and instead frames it as a strategic approach to showcasing one's expertise and the outcomes they can deliver for clients.

The discussion delves into practical steps for building a personal brand, including defining what one wants to be known for, creating a signature framework, and developing memorable language that resonates with potential clients. Petra also highlights the significance of consistency in branding and the need for consultants to adapt to the evolving landscape of work, especially in light of AI and changing client expectations. The episode wraps up with Petra sharing her insights on the importance of authenticity, the role of content creation in establishing authority, and the necessity of building trust over time in the consulting space.

Connect with Petra

Follow Petra on LinkedIn here.

Check out Petra's business, Impaccct, here.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Personal Branding
01:52 Defining Personal Brand and Its Importance
04:31 Overcoming Discomfort with Personal Branding
06:41 Steps to Build a Personal Brand
08:29 Developing Signature Frameworks
10:41 Creating Brand Assets and Consistency
15:22 Balancing AI and Authenticity in Branding
18:22 The Concept of Authenticity in Branding
19:52 The Shift from Company Branding to Personal Branding
25:37 Converting Content into Clients
28:35 Final Thoughts and Rapid Fire Questions

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• Fady Ramzy
• Mel Loy

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Transcript

0:06

Hello and welcome back to Reinventors Consulting Conversations Over Coffee. My name is Fady Ramzy, and I've been working in the intersection between the internet technology and the human behavior for the last 28 years. And specifically. Right now I'm a coach and consultant for personal landing and executive storytelling, and I'm always honored to have a great, great partner with me. Mel, welcome on board. Hi everybody. Hi Fadi. So, yes, I'm Mel Loy and I own a little agency called Cuttlefish and we are specialists in change communication and we run workshops and do consulting all over the world basically. Uh, I've written a couple of books, got my own other podcast other than this. And when I'm not doing this, I am teaching fitness classes, so cycle and yoga and HIIT and body step, and also training for my first half marathon, which may be the stupidest decision I've ever made. Wow. Wow. But here we are. It's good to have a goal, right? It's good to have a goal. Sure. That's an amazing goal to have. Now, speaking of goals, uh, that our podcast guest today, I mean, she is consulting goals Petra Zink. Uh, is an incredible leadership and strategy advisor. She's a speaker as well on trust, authority, and decision making. She's based on the Gold Coast, uh, here in Queensland where I'm same state, uh, but you'll find her all over the world, honestly. And through her trusted authority work, she helps founders and senior systemize expertise into scalable authority assets. And we do talk about that quite a bit in this episode. So listen out for that. And with those assets, you're able to transfer and create opportunity beyond your title or your roles or your visibility. Uh, Fadi, I know about you, but this chat was just so full of gold for me. What about, what did you think? Yeah, I enjoyed every, every framework she shared 'cause she's very structured and every, everything she. Puts the right things in the right place. So this episode is just like very, very clear path for any consultant who would like to start a journey of building a Christian brand and the digital footprint, this is the right place to be. A hundred percent. So without further ado, let's get into it. Here's Petra. Petra Zink, welcome to Reinventors Consulting Conversations Over Coffee. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited for this conversation. Uh, we're excited to have you here. And can I just say we do have a very international panel on this call today. Um, and speaking of which, tell us a bit about you. Uh, what do you do? How did you get there? Absolutely. Um, I'm an Austrian in Australia. I've been living here for the last 16 years, and what I do is a work with. Uh, executives, uh, I work with experts and I also work with entrepreneurs on helping them systemize and package what they know into IP that they can then monetize through multiple income streams and how I got here. By accident as usual, I started in corporate marketing for the first 10 years of my career to then moving into recruitment and in the recruitment space, I realized that there are so many people who are incredibly smart at what they do, and yet then started their promotions. They didn't get even invited to a job offer, and because I interviewed them. Thoroughly for hours, I could see that they've got everything, what it takes to actually get this promotion, get this opportunity. And yet simply because they couldn't package and sell themselves, they missed out on those opportunities. And this got me curious to see what can I do? Because in the end, as a recruiter, my job is to present my candidate in the best possible way for me to get their commission. What can I do to teach my candidates that? So they are better positioned? And this is how the whole personal branding journey started. That that's perfect. And let me underline what you said.'cause many experienced people, they are just stuck in this frame because they are not able to sell themselves, brand themselves, position themselves. And again, that's the whole essence of person branding. Where you do it like in person or online, over the internet. On LinkedIn, it's the whole package. Sometimes people mistake like personal branding with being an influencer, which is not the case, but. Having said that, Petra, as as a professional here, and this is exactly aligned with our, our podcast, how do you define the personal brand? Your personal brand is your market reputation. It's what people refer. To you for, it's what people trust you for. And also, do you come up in the right conversations? Do you have to chase work or do does work and opportunities come to you? That's a major difference when people are not able to buy you or engage you because it's easy. They will not refer you or recommend you either. So this is where. The chicken and egg situation comes in as a consultant. Our work is to 80% do the selling, the marketing, the advertising of us, and 20% doing the delivery. However, we usually got into the consulting work because we enjoy the actual work that's required for the consulting space so much, but people don't realize it's two different skill sets when you move into that world that you have to learn on top of your existing technical skillset. I, I just love what you said. I just love that a personal brand makes you attract opportunities instead of chasing them. You know, let, let me just frame that Mel back to you. Oh, no. And uh, that was sort of, I guess, leading into our next question really beautifully, which is, you know, why do you think that people feel uncomfortable about. This idea of having a personal brand, especially when you are new to consulting or freelancing, because Fadi and I both get this a lot. You know, we're talking with people who are new to freelancing, new to consulting, or interested in like, oh, I just, I don't feel comfortable selling myself and you know, I don't feel comfortable talking about myself. What's your experience with that, Petra? I would say they haven't done the groundwork yet. They haven't done the digging into what actually makes them valuable because we often still associate person branding with brain about yourself and being the influencer who does the dark face and you know, we are just sharing everything. What we are up to, and this is far from personal branding. Personal brand means what is it that you are naturally good at, what you enjoy, but also what creates value for somebody else. Simply because I'm good at something and I enjoy it, doesn't mean that anyone would pay for that. So I need to add this third layer of what outcome can I actually produce based on my experience and yet my expertise that others don't know how to do it, or it's just too much work for them to do it themselves. And this is also a differentiation. Like I could learn cutting my hair. But do I really want to do it? Of course not. I would happily pay somebody else to do it for me. And the same goes for consulting. The same goes for contracting. The same goes for advising. And coming back to why people are feeling a bit uncomfortable with is because they haven't learned the translation of what their value can actually do for others. And in a world where we. Value visibility. And with that also credibility, simply being the best. Keep kept secret doesn't help you anywhere. And you know, I would even take it a step further to say it's a little bit of arrogant ignorance these days when people think I've got 20, 30, whatever years experience, people should just come to me and give me work. Unfortunately, we are not living in this world anymore. We've got way too much options. We've got way too much choices these days, and let's not even talk about AI That can replace a lot of the basic knowledge tasks for free. I, I can't agree more. And again, you just confirmed the idea that we are discussing that social media influence and all the cat face and dancing videos. This is something and building an online personal brand, I think in my humble definition, it's always about, you know, my presence over the internet is about me. That social media influence, is it about my audience, which is like. Centric, customer centric. That's about about them. And I always invent those frameworks. So I invented the three specifics framework, which says your profile on LinkedIn, for example, should solve the specific problem for a specific target audience. You using your own specific solution. So, so that's how I define, you know, a personal brand. It's not bragging, it's solving people's problems. So having said that, Petra, what would be your top. Three tips for building a personal brand for a consultant who is just starting the journey from this perspective that we discuss. Think absolutely. Now it's everything but becoming visible. This is a misconception that people go straight into. What kind of colors should I use and what should my social media profile look like? It doesn't matter. It does not matter. The first step is knowing and clarifying what is it that you actually want to be known for, and also trusted for. What's the outcome that you can produce for a specific audience that's. Looking for that outcome. What kind of problem can you solve for them? And then the second part is how can you systemize and package your IP into an asset that you can use beyond you? And this is where signature frameworks come in. And then the last step, this is where we then make. This package visible by creating language around that's easy to remember and also easy to refer. And I'm a big fan of creating soundbites, meaning people can actually use what you say, but also words that you coin and use it in their own vocabulary. So for example, for me, I coined, uh, trusted Authority as. What a bubble or a soundbite that people can refer to, but it's also a framework. Um, a few other phrases that I often say is, new levels, new devils, meaning in the second you progress to the next level, you have not made it. You just see the next figure problem and people resonate with that. And anything that's rhyme or it's easy to say, it's also easy to refer with that people also feel a lot more. Um, feel smarter to refer you. And this is actually what creates the whole word out of mouth marketing, which is still one of the most powerful ways to get your name out there. So yeah, I would say those three steps. Firstly, what is it, what you want to be known and trusted for in terms of the problem that you can solve? Then turn your expertise in something repeatable, like a framework, and then create language around it that can be repeated by others. That's three very excellent steps. And it, uh, does lead me to the next question, which is all about frameworks. I mean, you are the framework queen, and I'm seeing a lot that a lot on your LinkedIn at the moment too. So for our listeners and viewers, go give Petra a follow and you'll see what I mean. But tell me, when do you even start with developing a framework? Like for some people, I, I think there's gonna be people out there go, I'm not a visual person, I'm not an artistic person, or, you know, I can't, I can't draw a picture, but it's. Not a picture, is it? So can you tell us where you start and how, how you develop a framework? Absolutely. I cannot paint a, a stigma for the life of me. Like if my life depends on it and I have to paint something, good luck to me. Um, a signature framework is basically a productized thinking, which makes. Your expertise livable beyond you. And where we start is knowing where our ideal client or audience is at, but also where they want to be and what steps. Three to maximum five steps I would recommend are required to get from here to there. And this is what Accenture framework is in the end. If you think about it, this is also what strategy is. We want to achieve this outcome, but we are currently here. What steps do we need to take to get there? And then we work our way backwards and the steps, then get productized into tools, into frameworks, into worksheets, into anything that can be repeatedly used. And this is what makes our consulting or advisory work actually repeatable. And with that, the outcome predictable. And this is what I would guarantee. To be a differentiator in 2026 and beyond that you actually have something that you can show to your future clients, but also show your current clients to work through and say, we are currently in phase two. We've got another three phases to go, which means in four months we're gonna be finished with this project. For example. Anything that makes your thinking your work more transparent so other people can follow along. Whether they've got the technical expertise or not, doesn't matter. Makes you a lot more trustworthy. And in a world where skepticism is at an all time high and trust is at an all time low, this is an competitive advantage that we cannot sleep on. Uh, I I love that. And also, before recording, we were having this discussion about, you know, turning your IP into, uh, a product. What would be like the ideal products that you help your, your clients with? Anything that they want to be known for. So for example, one of my clients is an executive in the manufacturing company and his brand promise is how can we scale through technology and acquisition? Now this is a broad statement and it's interesting, but. How can I actually guarantee if I would consult to another manufacturing company that I help you grow through technology and acquisition? I need to have a framework that I can run your organization through to assess where are you at in the terms of maturity and what is required first to get you to this next level. So it might be that we've got an assessment in terms of technology maturity. It might be that we've got a financial assessment, there are different tools, how we can actually. Create an outcome that then is one step closer to the big picture promise that we want to be known for. Thank you. That's a, oh my gosh, there's just so much gold in that. But I wanna talk about that next step that you talk about as you, you develop the framework, you've got these assets, you've got, um, this very clear idea of who you are, what you do, how that's special. You know, I call it the secret sauce. It's kind of that Venn diagram and the bit in the middle is your secret sauce. But then the next part is actually talking about it on whether it's social media or websites or books or you know, a combination of all of the above. What can that look like in terms of getting that brand and that framework and those ideas out there? Well, firstly, it comes down to being consistent. Like there are so many best practice branding advice that is no longer relevant over the last few years. However, consistency is still something. That we can't sleep on just because people have got short attention spans and anything that constantly changes and moves when you are not known for the one thing yet becomes confusing and it's just adding noise to this already very noisy world. In terms of how we can get it out there is firstly are your touch points that people will get in, in contact with you consistent. So when I come onto your LinkedIn profile for the first time, and I see what you're all about, does your headline. Connect with your banner, for example, and your banner. If you think about it, it's such a valuable real estate where you can actually market what you stand for, what you do, what you want to be known for through images. And as we know, images are 60,000 times faster process than text along. So it's an amazing opportunity to showcase you speaking or to show your book or to show your framework. Um, then the next step may be your website. Does the message translate from your LinkedIn profile to the website? Another step would be if I'm now getting more public and I build my visibility through other people's channels like we do it now, is the bio that you send consistent with the bio that somebody else would introduce you? Or do they speak about your background from five years ago and you actually don't want to be not about that anymore, but simply because they couldn't find anything on the internet other than. You know, what somebody wrote five years ago to just copy and paste it. So it's being very much in control of your reputation and how other people talk about you by giving them the assets. So when I said before, focused as a second step on building assets that don't only mean your signature framework, which is the foundation of being able to make money, but it's also creating all the marketing assets around it from a speaker kit, a media one pager, um, FAQs. If you've got a book, you know, anything that can be repeated and. With that, you are consist, you are in control of your name. I, I just confirmed what Mel said. This is, this is really good because I could just try to visualize it while you're speaking Petrol, like the main framework or asset, and then there is an ecosystem. Of multiple assets, like helping each other. It's, it's just like semi autopilot framework that, that over the internet can, can be working simultaneously and and seamlessly. So here, you, you mentioned something very important about AI and there's an ongoing debate between like AI as an automation tool and helping versus authenticity and. Real content, real expertise. You know, there's what we call the AI fluff, Hey charge BT Generator Framework for personal branding or LinkedIn copy paste. Done. So how do you advise your clients, or how do you see the right balance between authenticity and real value expertise journey versus using. I love AI and I've been a fan since day one, but it comes down to how to use it. So for me it's a thinking partner. Constantly spitball ideas. I give, uh, feedback to say, I like this direction, but this sounds very fake. Or, you know, make it more conversational or what would, um, research refer to that? Like I use it to, to find information a lot quicker, but because I've got a brand style guide with literally saying what. Are words that I avoid, like sweetie or honey or darling, not my vocabulary. I would never say that. Um, same with emojis. I would never use the high heel emoji or the lipstick emoji, you know, for, for one or many reasons. And people often have done the groundwork that they don't even know what their tone and voice actually is. So they cannot feed their AI with. Those assets. So, you know, when we talk about assets, it's literally a, a can of worms because there are so many moving pieces. That is basically everything that you do and say and how you behave documented in a form that others can also use. And I only actually got into developing all those assets when I started billing my team. And I'm not using my company LinkedIn page anymore, but it used to be managed by my, uh, virtual assistants. And because they had my brain style guide, they could actually write in my own tone and voice. They knew exactly what kind of topic. We we're covering and also what my point of view on this topic is and what we are going to avoid. So the approval process were for was for me so quick because I could point out we are not using this word or I would never say that, but that was about it. You know, the three small changes and we could move on. Whereas others who think they can just outsource all their content creation and get amazing results, they're kidding themselves. It's not, it's not happening unfortunately. Yeah. And you mentioned something really important there is brand assets is so much more than, as you said, like a logo or a photo. You know, your brand assets should also be your tone of voice, your messaging, your thought leadership framework. You know, to your point, what would you comment on? What wouldn't you comment on? It's, it's so much more. I always think of a brand like the logo and the colors are the icing on the cake. But there's all these layers of delicious sponge underneath the icing that are holding the whole thing up. And if it's, if those layers of cake aren't cooked well. Then the whole thing's gonna fall apart. You're just gonna have a mess. Um, your explanation is so much more elegant. I always say un sexy work that nobody wants to do. It's, we're making the cake. I love it. I go with that. Let's go with the cake. Um, I do, there's another question I wanna ask you here. And you used the word authenticity and you know, that was such a buzzword a few years ago in terms of leadership at work, particularly like being an authentic leader. Mm-hmm. What does that word mean to you from a brand point of view? You know, is it, is it a buzzword or does it, what does it actually look like? I honestly never liked the word and even the concept authenticity, because people don't necessarily, like when I'm authentic, when I'm hungry and tired, don't come close to me. I'm not very friendly, but this would be authentic. You want consistency. You want people delivering on their promise consistently and repeatedly, whether it's at three o'clock in the morning or three o'clock in the afternoon. It should be the same experience because I am consistent. And this is when we talk about the professional context, this is what people. Are trusting that they get, when I go to McDonald's, I expect a fast, cheap, and nasty meal for hopefully under $20. I'm not expecting to sit down, have a five course meal and pay 200 bucks for it. It's a different expectation, and this is what a brand in the end is all about. You want to be consistent in delivering an experience, which is your personality and your characteristics and your expertise that you have. Words that people can repeat, that you've got phrases that are easy to remember, that you've got a consistent narrative about what you do, how you help, and also how people can get in touch with you. Patrick, you mentioned something like quickly, few minutes ago, but I would like to rewind back 'cause this is little, a little bit critical. You said that you stopped focusing on the company page on LinkedIn, and you are focusing more on your profile. And personal brand on, on LinkedIn. Why question mark here? Because it's all started in early 2024 that I saw that engagement even from my personal page, which is basically my second home for the last 10 years. And I've invested a lot of time and um, resources into it has gone down. And then when we talk about company page, it has literally had 1, 2, 3 likes maybe. And then I thought, do I engage with a company brand? No, because who's the company anyway? Are they even responding? Is it, uh, an AI bot that comes back to me? I'm not gonna waste time on that, which is why I've made the decision to only focus on my personal brand. And this is also what I advise my clients to use the personal brand as the, the spotlight to direct it into wherever the spotlight needs to shine. It may be an offer, it may be the team, it may be a course that you want to support rather than. Hiding behind a company brand, especially when trust is already low anyway, and people have got short attention spans. They connect with people who are similar to them or who they aspire to, or who they can relate to in one or another way. So I'm going all in with my personal brand. And this is also what Mel said before this year actually started a different challenge. So last year I did my 10 unassisted pull-ups in 12 months challenge. I did not think that anyone would be interested because the beginning, I was literally just hanging there doing not much. And you know, in the end I could do 12 pull-ups. Um, and I thought, I need to do something different. And this is what brain in the end is all about a repetitive topic that you talk about and share the, the progress. Take people behind the scenes, give updates also when you didn't necessarily make progress. And this year I've shifted to framework Fridays. It is, there's a rhythm to it. It's a repeatable and. A predictable day and outcome that people can actually join or they can opt in to say, I can't be bothered with frameworks. And that's great because a brand attracts people and also repels the others that were not the audience in the first place. Anyway, love that framework. Fridays ff sounds good. It's, it's, it's, it's trying and I agree 500% that. Trust is accumulated and it's like on the personal brand, on the company page.'cause humans relate to humans. Even online on LinkedIn, people would relate to you and you build like credibility and then a bit of trust and with consistency, as you said, you keep building that, which doesn't happen over a company page where there is, I'm talking to a logo or I'm not talking, I don't know who is the person. So I confirm that a hundred percent and I confirm my love to that FF framework that you came up with. Well, anything that, that rhymes like, uh, sorry to jump in, but even, yeah. Yeah. I tried, um, planning and Prosecco with Petra, so three Ps and people love the concept. I'm just like, how can you make something? Remember that boring and it's coming back in February. I running actually. But it's, it's a small change that makes all the difference. And that also is. Um, the reason why people buy you or a standard planning workshop, like I'm not reinventing how we plan for the year ahead, but I've got the personality and also this, you know, uh, cheeky prosecco element to it. I love that. I love that it's coming back. Um, there was something, couple things there, and one Fadi. I really liked how you phrased that as like, trust is accumulated. You know, you don't just. Flick on a switch one day and hey, trust. Um, it's a, it's that building over time, you know, like how sand builds up on a beach. It's, that's kind of how it works, I think. But then it can all be taken away in a tidal storm very quickly. Um, but Petra, you've also touched on something that Fadi and I talk a bit about is how do you get into the rhythm of actually just creating content and putting it out there because. For some people that also does feel just like a lot of work. Like yes, they've got stuff to say, they're comfortable to say it, but it's the time to put into content. Now we have our own systems, but I'm keen to hear what yours is. Well, I would say it starts with a mindset in a second. You go into consulting, you need to share your ideas and you know, one of the concepts that I always say, when you want to become an authority, you need to author something or some, somehow your ideas. Um, and. Yes, short form content is great, but people are. Longing for long form in depth content where they actually can get to know you. And everyone's got different strengths. For some it's writing and substack, or you know, even LinkedIn newsletter articles are still very much growing and people are looking for more in depth. Content and even pay for that. Or if your strength is speaking, then have a podcast. Um, we can have YouTube videos. There are so many different ways how we create content. And in the second you've got one long form content, you can then repurpose it into multiple short form content that that turns or connect back to the long form article or video or podcast, whatever it may be. And at the same time, establishing a new rhythm that has content creation included. In it, if it's a Sunday for a couple of hours and this is what you do for the first six months to just learn the skill, so be it. You know, we, I always talk about skill stacking your technical skills that got you into the, the consulting area in the first place. It's only the foundation, so many others can do exactly the same thing. Marketing, branding, advertising, selling, packaging, ip, creating content. Getting in front of audiences, building your own community. These are all skills that you stick on top of it. They're not replacing your technical expertise, but they become more and more important as you move into the consulting and the freelancing world. That that's, that's very interesting. And having said that, one of the topics that me and Mel also always talk about, we, we have that framework also, as you brought up the three Ps. We have the three Cs. Here, so, so C number one is the character, which is your profile. For example, on LinkedIn, C number two, which is challenging as as you answered, Mel. It's the content, your frameworks, your consistency. But then comes the most challenging C for all consultants here, which is the conversion. How do you advise, um, a consultant who is active on LinkedIn? Okay. We have a decent profile that solves a specific problem. I'm creating content. I'm into that mood. And then what, how can I turn this into clients because I'm creating content And full stop. I'm, I'm, I'm stuck here. How can we move to the third seat? Uh, I love this question because I often get this, oh, content doesn't do anything for me. It's like, but how do you leverage content? Like if you are saying, come on, buy me or book me, or, you know, it doesn't work. Like sales messages, they're saying straight away nobody wants to be sold to, but. People still want to buy on their own terms. And this is where the backend channels come in. So you build content or create content to build your profile, to build trust, to build awareness that you're even available, but also to share your ideas, to share your point of view on a certain topic, and also how you solve it with your signature framework and then through direct messages, um, and backend conversations may be through email or may be through invite only events. This is where you convert. Uh, it's a lot easier once you've built already those touch points. And as we know, we have to get in touch with people more often now to actually recognize them, let alone to actually purchase from them. So if we post four times and think nobody's running our door in, then I would say, that's okay. This is part of the journey. You know, give it another a hundred times and then maybe people will actually pay attention. But it comes down to committing to the long game and not expecting things. In the second we go into, um, the week or the ation. So this post needs to convert and needs so many clients. It won't do anything for you. It will repel people more so than anything else. So you build also a backend channel maybe through your email list, which is still the highest converting asset that you can have. Uh, it could also be direct messages and outreach and having backend conversations of the platform. With more specific, um, conversations and personalized conversations. And I also truly believe that proximity is power in 2026, meaning smaller events and more round tables. Or I also launched what we call the executive table, which is a group of 12 female leaders and their handpicked hand selected, and this is where you can actually take conversations to the next level that then potentially converts in any opportunities. Mm-hmm. I am sure there's a bit of Prosecco at those two Petra, potentially. We're not, we're not saying anything, but we're not, not saying that's right. If you know you're not. Yeah. Well, Petra, we have three questions that we ask every guest on the podcast. Are you ready for those? Ready? Let's do it. Okay. So question number one. If you could wave your magic wand and change anything about freelancing and consulting, what would it be? The misconception that X amount of years of experience make you a good consultant straight away, and that people will run the door in when you say, I'm open for business, not the case, this concept. And we want to get rid of that once and for all. Okay. Second question here, Petra. Who is the freelancer or consultant that you truly and deeply admire and why? I was pondering about this question because there's not one person, there's many people that I. Get inspired by for different reasons. Um, Seth Golden calls himself a freelancer, even though he works with a big team, which is very interesting. Um, but he constantly challenges his own beliefs. He puts frameworks together. He creates language that we can refer to and use. So he's certainly somebody who constantly sets the bar. And I don't know how many bestselling books he has got, 21 or something like. Incredible. Um, Ellen Wise is a category by itself because he established a consulting bible or the million dollar consulting idea, which again, it's something that people can use, not a one resonates with him, and that's fine too. Um, and then others have more moved into the entrepreneurial space. Like Daniel Priestley. I think he's incredible in how he articulates his ideas and, um, his thinking that others can use also. So, yeah, there's. Not one person, but different people for different reasons. Love it. And it, you know, that's a common answer to that question, isn't it? Fadi, that we all, um, that when we speak to others on this podcast, and as our listeners will hear in the coming weeks, everybody has this kind of, you know, get little, get little things from other pe from different people and put it all together as a. A bit of a puzzle. Okay, last question. So this is consulting conversations over coffee, although right now for me it's electrolytes because it's very hot. What is your coffee, tea, or hot beverage of choice? It is a macadamia milk latte with a splash of like toast, free light milk. I know very specific, but once you have had it, you cannot unhave it. Mel, Mel, would you agree that this is the most specific drink? This is the most specific, but like very specific. I love that, but I'm also not surprised. You know, I'm surprised I'm struggling. Like this is first world problem here. I'm struggling to go to a coffee shop and just get a normal something coffee because. I just have my own special, special blend, and it's hard to compete with that. That's, that's remarkable. I love that. Actually, can I throw a bonus kind of question in? I'm ready for this. Okay. It is a conversation we've had before, I feel, but for our listeners, you and I have both talked about that some people are just not made for the corporate world. We're not, we're just built differently. Does that, do you reckon that is a thing? Because for me, it definitely felt like I was never going to thrive in that environment once I was outside of that environment. Oh, I've blossomed like a flower. But for others, you know, they, it's the, it's just, they're quite comfortable in that environment with, you know, much more structure, you know. Is that something you see with the clients that you work with? Absolutely, but it's, I think also a false sense of security. And when people place a lot of, um, value in predictability and safety, then employment is often the default answer higher. We've seen the last 24 months or so that there's a lot of restructures, there's a lot of redundancies, so it's not as safe as it used to be anymore. Yes, you may have more resources and you don't necessarily constantly have to chase your own work. However, I truly believe that. Bringing more entrepreneurial thinking into every organization is required to stay employed beyond 2026. Everyone is cutting the budgets, everyone squeezing out more for less. So we have to rethink how do we actually create value and this what I'm doing still relevant for what's ahead or what else do I need to learn and be proactive with in order to stay relevant for where the company wants to go. Not only where they are now, but where they want to go in next year or five. Hmm. That's a really interesting trend and um, definitely seeing the same sort of thing here. So thank you for that. And thank you for allowing me to throw that last one in. Well, Petra, if people want to find out more about you and connect with you, what is the best way for them to do that? I still live on LinkedIn, um, twice a week nowadays, instead of six times a week. Um, so LinkedIn is definitely the first point of contact. And also, um, my website. It gives a lot of resources that we can get started with. So impact with three, three Cs, just to make it complicated, dot com. Wonderful. Petra, as always, love chatting with you and uh, I'm sure our listeners have just gotten so much gold out of that. Fadi, any thoughts from you? No, Petra, that was really good. Like, you know, squeezed in, in those few 30 minutes or a little bit. A lot. So thank you so much for. Paving the way and, and the journey for consultants were, um, starting their journey. It was really insightful and I love the coffee specific specificity. Oh, well thank you so much for having me and building a platform for this conversation because we see the trend that more and more, um, employees and executives are transitioning into consulting, contracting, and advisory work, and there is still a lot of education that needs to be done for the space to actually properly work. Yeah, we got that. Petra Zink. It's been a pleasure having you on Reinventors. Thank you so much for having me. It was such a lovely conversation. Thank you, Petra. Thanks a million. So we've just heard our chat with Petra, and as we said at the top of the episode, there was so much to take out of this. So if you're listening or watching from home, I hope you took a lot of notes or that you grab a hold of the transcript and do that. But as always, on this podcast, Fadi and I have our three key takeaways from our chats with our guests. And so the first one for me was where? Uh, Petro mentioned the term arrogant experience and so basically we can't expect that people will just come knocking on our doors when we start consulting. Even if you've got 20, 30 years of ex expertise and you are an amazing leader at your previous company, it doesn't mean people will come knocking on your door if you don't work on your personal brand and put yourself out there and make sure that people know that you exist and can see what value you can add. So that was the first key takeaway for me far. Second one and the most significant for me, she mentioned turning your IP into an ecosystem of digital products. Starting from your signature framework, like the main valuable asset, your unique value asset, and then building an ecosystem of, it can be an asset, uh, the loadable something, um, ecosystem of digital products around it so that you as a consultant, you detach income from. Up time, you have digital products ecosystem that works for you, which is an amazing and very critical concept for, for consultants who are starting. Yes, absolutely agree. And uh, like we said in the episode, if you go follow Petra over on LinkedIn, you'll see her framework Fridays, and, uh, it'll give you a really like, you know, real time example of what that can look like. Uh, the third key takeaway for me was that. Personal branding isn't about the colors, the fonts, the logos, the pictures. It's about building a trusted reputation, and that comes through consistency. So showing up to add value to your audience, no matter the platform, and doing it consistently. So it's much more than just being a social media influencer. The duck face. Person on Instagram, as RA said, it really is about, well, what value do you add to your audience? And, uh, we had an interesting chat about the authenticity piece behind that as well. So, uh, that's probably the three big ones. Is there any others you wanna add to that? Fadi? I, I think the main theme here with Petra, if you just conclude all the three, is having additional footprint that builds and accumulates trust through consistency. So the main keyword and theme here. It's trust building, and when you have that as a consultant, your business goes through the roof a hundred percent. Well, that's another episode of Reinventors Consulting Conversations Over Coffee Done and Dusted. Thanks for joining us next week. We have another guest, Monique Nik, who joined us all the way from Germany for this conversation, and it's all about building an audience, but she also shares some insights into. Some of the reasons why people go into consulting and some of the reasons why they exit consulting. So you absolutely want to stay tuned for that. But in the meantime, you can follow both of us over on LinkedIn, Fadi, where else can they find out about you? So for sure, a hundred percent. First of all, LinkedIn, and then my website, which is fadi ramsey.com. Wonderful. All right. We'll see you all again. Same bat time, same bat channel next week. Stay tuned.