Once Upon a Time.....

We go back to a primary school library to hear what happens when children get steady, respectful one-to-one time to read aloud with a volunteer. We learn how phonics, safeguarding, and small tools like breathing and praise help turn reluctance into confidence, and why a whole-school reading culture matters. 
• hearing Year 3 pupils read aloud and reflect on how it feels 
• meeting Miss Karen and how she becomes a volunteer school reader 
• training, enhanced DBS checks, phonics, and working safely one to one 
• building rapport through consistency, kindness, and simple rewards 
• supporting a child who resists reading through breathing, Lego, and a tick chart 
• the school view on reading leadership and rebuilding a love of reading 
• how reading fuels writing and creativity through a pupil comic club 
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Transcript

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Back To The Classroom

Derm Tanner 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Greymatter's More. I'm Derm

Roy Player 0:04

and I'm Roy and Derm this week we thought we'd come back to the classroom.

Children Read Dogman Together

Karen Piotra 0:11

Hi Eva, Ray and Robin. We're here today to do some reading. I understand you've chosen a book that you'd like to read to me. So when you're ready, how are you going to do this? Are you gonna read a page each or a chapter each?

All the Children Together 0:23

A page. What's up for our visits your old pal, George and Harold? Sup. We're fifth graders now, so we're totally mature and deep.

Meet Miss Karen The Volunteer

Karen Piotra 0:33

My name is Karen Piotra, or Miss Karen, as I'm known here at school, and I'm a volunteer school reader.

Roy Player 0:39

I think, Miss Karen, that the we've listened to the the kids, the two and stunning kids that were reading. The confidence that they have reading out loud clearly comes across because of the respect that they have for you. That must be fantastic.

Karen Piotra 0:57

It is. So I come twice a week to school, so for two and a half hours each day. I have a little book, and there are 28 children in class. I'm assigned to year three, and it's really hard to try and just pick one out. There are some children that do need extra support, so I usually give them priority. But then I go through and it's just me and them. We often sit in the library where we are today, or we have another room further down that's not attached to classroom, and it is just me and them, and it's just us together in that room, immersed in a story, immersed in a book, and I help them if I need to.

From Insurance To School Reading

Roy Player 1:38

But does that mean to say that you were a teacher before? Just tell us a little bit about how on earth you got involved with this project.

Karen Piotra 1:47

Oh, I couldn't be further away from the truth being a teacher. I worked in the insurance industry for 30 years. I was made redundant and went to work at an FE college as an administrator, so to utilize Microsoft skills, and I was only working part-time. I'd started to think about following I am a widow, so I was starting to think about retiring. What could I do? So I'm president of a local women's institute, and I saw an advertisement in one of our magazines, and it was talking about volunteer school reading. Now I always presumed you would have to be a teacher or you would have to have been in the education system, but no, just as long as you've got a good comprehension for English, you have some time that you can regularly dedicate, so they like you to commit for a year for an academic year. They give you training, there is an enhanced DBS check that you have to do. I had a lot of training from school. There's the safeguarding, there's you know keeping children safe in education and phonics. Phonics training wasn't around when I was at school. Phonics, I'm like, what the heck is phonics? Yeah, so yeah. So there we go. I had some phonics training, and that's how the children are taught these days, right from nursery and preschool, about matching sounds and letters together in a certain order.

Roy Player 3:12

Now, I, I would have thought though, the thing that I would have a fear of doing. I mean, I can tell you're very shy. I mean, I don't know about you, Derm, but I can tell Miss Karen's obviously very shy,

Derm Tanner 3:19

introverted, introvert,

Roy Player 3:21

absolutely, but it's those things of going, it's still very intimidating, I would imagine, standing in front of a class of young kids and thinking, I'm gonna do something here and with all of them, get them to join in, but you sort of say, Can we start here? and there's this silence. How do you get started? How do you get build up that confidence at the two we've seen today? How do you build up to that? get them to join in, but you sort of say, Can we start here? and there's this silence. How do you get started? How do you get build up that confidence at the two we've seen today? How do you build up to that?

Trust Stickers And One To One Time

Karen Piotra 3:45

So I have to give credit to the teachers. The teachers here at Russell Hall primary are excellent. There's a whole curriculum set out right from nursery right through to year six before they go to high school. So I suppose my job was a bit easier. I was asked to support various children in year three that had a bit of difficulty in reading, and we took them out of the classroom and came and sat in the library or in a separate room, and they would just have their book out on the table and read it out loud to me. If they weren't sure of certain words, we would break it down, we would cover it up with our fingers, you know, to get the phonics that they know by now in year three, and it just went from there. So the rapport that I'm building, the characters, they've all got their own characters, which is quite amazing. But at first, it's like I'm coming into this having no education degree, no education background, a teaching assistant and a teacher are already well established, and I had to have the confidence to think if I notice an issue, can I raise that confidently with the teacher? So, you know, it's always at the back of your mind about safeguarding when you're in a one-to-one situation with these children. But quite quickly, yeah, you know, I became part of the team, and it's all could you just have a read with this child this week, Miss Karen? and they might need a little bit extra, they struggled last week, and it sort of went from there.

Derm Tanner 5:10

So if it was reasonably quick that the staff took to you, what about the kids? Because day one, first day, you're in here, they're in there, you know, you're meeting them for the first time. How quickly did you realise that this was for you?

Karen Piotra 5:25

I think it's seeing the smiles on their faces, the eagerness when they come back in after lunch. I've got a new book, Miss Karen. Can I be on your list? Am I first? and very quickly, I'm a very friendly person. So I think they took to me really easily. I do have some stickers, they seem very motivated by these stickers.

Derm Tanner 5:44

You can't beat a sticker, can't you?

Karen Piotra 5:46

You can't beat a sticker, it's all about smelly stickers these days.

Derm Tanner 5:49

Oh wow,

Karen Piotra 5:50

it's a whole different ball game, smelly stickers. Yeah. I will tell you a story then. So, quite quickly, after after being at school one day, I was in the local supermarket and I saw one of the children that had been to read to me that day. He said hello to me, so I said hello back, and he turned around and he said, I love to read with Miss Karen, and my head nearly exploded in in the supermarket, thinking, Wow, that impact that I've had already on that child. So I had a sticker made that says, a gold sticker, I love to read with Miss Karen.

Roy Player 6:22

No, I, I, I know, and I, I don't want you to sort of feel that you're bigging yourself up here, but there must have been a tremendous sense of satisfaction that the kids did come up to you and feel that confidence, and now, as a volunteer and as a retired volunteer, even though I know we've said early retirement, but that must have felt absolutely fantastic that the kids do respond to you in that way.

Karen Piotra 6:47

Yeah, so again, we have some children in year three that are on special educational needs, so they need a bit extra coaching, and they have one-to-one sessions with a specific teaching assistant in class, and the confidence for them to trust me took a while, and I would keep asking, Do you want to come and read to me this week? and they'd shake the head. But then one of them came up to me a few months afterwards, after we'd started back in September and said, I'd like to read to you today. And I was quite thrilled and quite amazed that this child then had the confidence and trust in me to want to come and do that. He's an amazing child. What he doesn't know about animals and insects? It's just a Minecraft, it's just amazing, you know, and he's so articulate now and he, he reads exceptionally well. So that's quite an achievement to think that he trusted me to want to come do that. He has his own teaching assistant that he does everything with, and that makes me proud to think he trusted me and he came to read to me.

Derm Tanner 7:50

And as we speak, we're coming to the end of the summer term, we're only a few days away. I know you're a busy woman. I mean, you're already the president of the local WI and you do a million other things. You must miss it in the summer holidays, don't you?

Karen Piotra 8:04

I do. I'm like, oh my gosh, I've only got two days left. What am I gonna do for the summer holidays? But I do have great nieces, so I can at least practice on them and share my love of reading with them. Yeah, even though she's only two.

Roy Player 8:20

You want to do better.

Karen Piotra 8:21

Keep going.

Roy Player 8:22

I would imagine then actually we're picking that's picking up on what Derm. said there, it's the end of the summer term, which means some of the kids must actually leave the school. So that must be quite an you must have an emotional attachment to them, but also a great sense of pride that they're taking the next step, and you've been a major factor in making that happen.

Karen Piotra 8:38

Yeah. So I've been here for 18 months, so I started part way through year three, and they're now in year four. So this current year three I've had for the whole of the academic year, and it will be really sad. A few of them have said to me in the last few weeks, Oh, well, I still get to read to you next year, and I'm like, No, I'm really sorry, I'm staying in year three, but I'll see you around school.

Roy Player 9:02

At the end of that year, though, what is the most important thing for you? Do you think that the children have got out of the experience with you?

Karen Piotra 9:12

If I can hope and wish that they have the same passion for reading as I do, and that will carry them through the rest of their lives, to think that I've had a tiny part in helping them with their confidence, with the way that they've improved the reading, the books that they're reading, the topics that they're reading about, that's all I can ask for. That I've helped them in some way improve for the rest of their life.

Derm Tanner 9:42

Well, we had a little listen to some wonderful reading from Eva Ray and Robbie, and they are the sort of cream of the crop, I'm sure, in many respects. But I'm sure there must have been challenges for you, because there are always challenges in everything.

Helping A Reluctant Reader Focus

Karen Piotra 9:56

Yes, there was one little boy, Daniel, and his attitude to come and read to me was, do I have to? His body language, I'm tired, can I just read one page? and it is quite upsetting thinking that some of these children, particularly Daniel, had said, I don't read at home. And that's quite sad to think. So I was quite concerned because again, I'm not a teacher, so I spoke to the teacher and asked her for some guidance and advice, and I said to her, I'm thinking of perhaps some mindfulness breathing with him, would that help him focus? She thought that was an excellent idea. She gave me the idea of a fiddle, so a piece of Lego or something that he could fiddle with to get his attention, and then I said, Well, would he be motivated perhaps by a little praise or a chart, a tick chart? and again, we came up with this idea. So the week after he came in, I had a few pieces of Lego on the table, and he was like, I thought, Oh, you can play with those if you like, but what we're going to do first, we're gonna do some breathing, and he sat there and he breathed, we breathed in and out, and then we got into the story, and immediately in that first week, I could see his focus had shifted. He was no longer, do I have to like that? and he I mean, there were a few words he struggled with, so he did exceptionally well that first week. I gave him a tick. Week on week, he came to me every week, and then suddenly last week, I'm gonna get quite emotional when I recall this. Last week was the last time I'll probably have him now, and he read that book perfect, no fiddling, gosh, I can't feel the no fiddling, no nothing, and I was like, Daniel, that is amazing, and that journey over those months is just immense. I can't even begin to tell you it. It makes me really proud and really emotional to think I've helped him, and he struggled really bad at the start, and that is what this means to me and if somebody else can take on this role as a volunteer school reader and get that satisfaction and that help that they've given that child, how amazing!

The School’s Reading Culture Shift

Emma Smith 12:13

Hi, I'm Emma Smith. I'm the deputy head at Russell Hall Primary School and the reading leader across school.

Roy Player 12:19

And I think that's the first thing I'm gonna have to ask you, actually, is this reader leader is that something that is very common in schools currently, or is that something that you've managed to do here at this great school you've got?

Emma Smith 12:33

So it's something that's sort of been developed over the last few years. There's been a bigger sort of emphasis in the curriculum on the importance of reading. A lot of the recent statistics have shown there's been a massive decline in the children's love of reading. I think this year has been the first year there's been an improvement of that, and this year is actually known as the year of reading. So 2026 is the year of reading nationally. So it's something we've really looked to develop as a school based on our children, the children's needs, and just trying to make reading lovely for everybody.

Roy Player 13:03

And I noticed that on the website in particular, you look at sort of volunteering, is very much what Karen has involved in, which is reading out loud with the kids. So was that something that an idea that the school came up with, or how did you in sort of introduce this whole concept into the school?

Emma Smith 13:22

Yeah, so school life is very, very busy, and what we wanted to do was enhance the offer that we've already got. So we actually signed up to a scheme, and it's almost like a dating site you put on the profile for your school, and then you get matched with a volunteer in the local area, and so it was about two years ago. Yeah, I think Karen was our match, and what a great match it's been, and then we made contacts, so we did some training and things with Karen. Got Karen came and got to know the school, worked with myself, and then now she's just start a part of Russell Hall, and it's really lovely that she's here to help support our children.

Roy Player 13:58

And I was gonna say, just I mean, that sort of thing of we we're chatting to Karen and and sort of learning about how the volunteering has helped her out as being sort of a retired individual. What about from your perspective as a school, having someone like Miss Karen in helping out with the kids? What does it mean to the school, do you think?

Emma Smith 14:18

It means such a lot, it really does. It it reading is everywhere in school here. We've done a lot of work around that, and what we've looked to do by having reading volunteers, we have Miss Karen, we have some other parent volunteers and things as well, is just to enhance the offer we've already got in place and just to give those children opportunities. We have daily reading in school, but like the children said in their interview, it's not always out loud, and what you do find is in that quality one-to-one time, you know, you can target children that aren't as confident, it brings them alive, and you see their confidence growing and the smiles on their faces when it knows they know it's their time to read, is just really lovely to see.

Derm Tanner 14:57

Because reading out loud can be quite daunting. We all remember doing it in school. I remember, yeah, and we've all had that, you know, you you get the first word wrong, and the other kids laugh at you, and and it stays with you and I've, I've done as part of my sort of broadcasting career, I've taught a lot of people how to broadcast read, and that's always the first thing we we talk about. So, how how have you got past that? Because it's a massive thing to get past, isn't it?

Emma Smith 15:26

It's a huge thing, and I think that's something we've installed as a culture here is that it it's okay to make mistakes, and we've taken away that fear and done a lot of work with children around perseverance, resilience, but self-belief and supporting their peers and that kind of relationship that they have together, and I think that as a result of that, our children are becoming more and more confident, but there isn't always the time every day for the children to do that. You know, parents are busy, life is busy, and by having volunteers like Miss Karen, we know we've got that dedicated slot, but also that one-to-one work. So if there is a child that we might not ask to read aloud in in class, we're not kind of just brushing that under the carpet, we're supporting them by giving them the opportunities to read with others.

Derm Tanner 16:11

And when you start to read, when a person starts to read and they get into it, there's a light bulb moment for them, isn't it? When they realise actually their imagination is far better than anything that they can ever see themselves. You and, and that's why, in my view, radio is always better than television. But they but I would say that because that ,was that's where I came from. But do you see that as well from the children?

Emma Smith 16:33

Absolutely, and I know the children mentioned it inspired them to go and work on their comic books, but also what we've noticed is we've seen it in the children's writing as well. If they've got that love of reading, it inspires them as writers, and reader good readers become good writers, and it all kind of correlates together. It's lovely.

Roy Player 16:52

Now, ,I I don't want to sort of sort of embarrass Miss Karen too much because Miss Karen looks in her forties, but I do know that she has retired. Early retirement. I just wondering what a it must be lovely for the kids as well to have someone who's a little bit older coming in and doing this because I, I have to say it's kind of having that sort of slightly older figure around, almost enhances the confidence, perhaps. Is that something you think that Miss Karen has been able to bring to this as well, being a slightly older person?

Emma Smith 17:23

Yeah, absolutely. It gives children experience of working with people of all ages, which I think is really important. We're looking to develop children to be, you know, in the modern Britain and you know acceptable of everybody. So it's nice that they get that experience. We also have younger volunteers as well that come in, so we work with both ends of the scale, which is really nice. But I think it just gives them that nurturing approach, you know, that little you know calm environment and friendly face that they know they've got every week, which is really nice to see. And I'd just like to say that as a school, we are so grateful for Miss Karen and our reading volunteers, and that you know, life is busy. Miss Karen's a very busy lady, but you know, she dedicates a lot of time to our school, so thank you, Miss Karen. We're very grateful.

Pupils On Reading And Comic Club

All the Children Together 18:08

But first, a recap of our story thus far. Was unleashed who away for Dogman. Dogman has three awesome alien allies Sarah, very smart, Sousa, very brave, chef, very chef.

Derm Tanner 18:31

Oh, sorry to roll. I just want to interrupt a little bit. I just wanted to say, A, fantastic reading, and B, I want just wanted to ask you a couple of questions. What's it like reading out loud? What's it like with Karen?

All the Children Together 18:48

I find it fun and kind of find it silly to read like this.

Derm Tanner 18:56

Silly? In what way?

All the Children Together 18:58

a weird way.

Derm Tanner 19:00

Cause I'm here.

All the Children Together 19:01

No, it's not that, it's just because it's , it's weird. It's because I don't normally read out loud, I normally read in my head because I'm not supposed to read in my head. So most of the time when I still do a book at home, I read in my head and my mum's saying like, I can't hear ya

Derm Tanner 19:21

It sounds so different when you actually read it out loud and when you start to do the voices as well.

All the Children Together 19:26

Yeah, it's it sounds a bit like American sometimes when you do it.

Derm Tanner 19:30

So you, you have sometimes you have a bit of American accent going, do you? Are you okay?

All the Children Together 19:36

I wasn't born up here, I was born down south, like at London, so to I'm gonna stuff.

Derm Tanner 19:45

That's southern as stick together. I knew I liked you.

Roy Player 19:52

What's it like reading out loud then with Miss Karen? Has Miss Karen been any help to you, or is she, you know, going, Oh, have you got that right? Have you got that right?

All the Children Together 20:02

She sometimes helps me when I get stuck on a word, but most of the time I already know the word.

Derm Tanner 20:10

And how about you? What what is it about this that you enjoy? Because clearly you do enjoy it and you read with a huge amount of energy, and it's really exciting and wonderful to hear you read. What is it you like about it?

All the Children Together 20:24

I really like reading because like it's fun and it helps me imagine stuff for my own stories. Because me and Robbie have a comic club together. Yeah, we're

Derm Tanner 20:36

Oh tell me about this.

All the Children Together 20:38

So it's called the Kibble crew, and we make comics about this superhero dog who really really enjoys food.

Derm Tanner 20:48

Because what dog doesn't it really, really enjoy food? And what's the dog called?

All the Children Together 20:54

Captain Kibble.

Derm Tanner 20:55

Okay. Captain Kibble. Captain Kibble likes a nibble. Yeah, okay, and what do you do in this then, Robert?

All the Children Together 21:02

What what I do the pictures and then she does the writing.

Derm Tanner 21:06

So you're the illustrator. Okay, and and you come up with all the stories, and do you work on the stories together?

All the Children Together 21:13

Yeah.

Derm Tanner 21:14

So what are you working on at the moment? What's the story that's going so we can get ahead of the game and you know, but before publication, yeah.

All the Children Together 21:21

We're supposed to be carrying on number two, but we're on number three at the moment. Yeah, we're doing it like at the same time at the same time, yeah. So the second one is Captain Kibble two. No one in it. No, it's two. It's two, yeah. Yeah. Dawn of the Squirrels.

Derm Tanner 21:40

Then Captain Kibble for Dawn of the Squirrels, I can see it now in coming to a movie house near you.

All the Children Together 21:47

And the third one, I think, is tennis b Captain Kibble tennis bar mayhem.

Derm Tanner 21:55

Does that have something to do with Wimbledon? So Wimbledon's been you got the idea of tennis, would that have something to know? No? No, you're looking at me and say, what a stupid man. Stupid question. Do you know I've made a career of asking stupid questions?

All the Children Together 22:08

You know what, you know when we were down at London? Well I used to live near Wembley. And my grandma my grandma still lives in London and she lives right like right next to Nip near it. Like so she's here. You could you know when it's like bunker by night? You can see the fireworks coming up in Wembley's.

Derm Tanner 22:26

There's a lot of gesticulation going on with the table here because there is a on the head, yeah. I'm never it's all it's it's all in my head.

Roy Player 22:34

How often then do you read out out loud in in class then?

All the Children Together 22:38

Not much really. It's every Wednesday and Thursday, but I normally read with Miss Karen on Thursday, but I'm not sure about Robbie. Yeah, mine is Thursday.

Derm Tanner 22:54

Well, we're gonna let you get on because you've got a lot to do. You've got to you've got you know, Captain Kibble's got this you know, he's not gonna wait for everybody, isn't he? Yes, we definitely need that, and I'd love to see the comic when it comes out, and we would love to have some pictures of that. It'd be fantastic to see that. Thank you very much for reading for us, and thank you for chatting to us as well.

Final Reflections And Subscribe

Derm Tanner 23:18

Well, I don't know about you, Roy, but I wish my school had been like that.

Roy Player 23:21

It's fantastic, isn't it? I mean, the the enjoyment those kids were having as well, and the respect that they had for that lovely lady and for the teachers. What a place to go to. Brilliant, Emma.

Derm Tanner 23:32

Yeah, thank you so much to Emma Smith, Deputy Head of Russell Hall Primary School in Queensbury and Bradford.

Roy Player 23:38

And if you've kind of been interested in this podcast, you may be interested in well, we're going to turn back the clock, and Derm and I are gonna dress up in our togas and go back to Roman times.

Derm Tanner 23:49

You've been listening to Grey Matters More, produced and presented by Roy Player and Derm Tanner. Please don't forget to like, follow, or subscribe. That way you'll never miss an episode.