Automation is "Lovely" with VP of Tech, Nick Beukema

Automation is changing freight brokerage...but not everything should be automated.

In this episode of Inside Freight, VP of Technology Nick Beukema breaks down where AI and automation can make the biggest impact in logistics, from back-office processes to document processing and operational efficiency. He also explains the areas that he believes should remain human.

We explore how freight companies can use technology to eliminate repetitive work while protecting the human relationships that power the industry. If you’re curious about AI in logistics, automation in freight brokerage, and the future of freight tech, this episode dives into what’s possible, and what may benefit from staying human.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Right now, the can't automate in the brokerage space is what do you feel like are some of the low-hanging fruit, like obvious ways that brokerages can start implementing AI to just expedite things, make operations more efficient, whatever it may be, you know, very easy things to implement. And then what are some of the things that you you think are going to be harder to automate as AI continues to progress within the brokerage space?

SPEAKER_00 0:30

The lowest hanging fruit is definitely going to be your typical like back office automation, accounting, HR, IT, all of the problems in those spaces are pretty repeatable. And I guess that's kind of a framework to kind of look at like how can something be automated?

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Is like how simple to how complex is it?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

And how similar versus varying is it? So there's kind of two dimensions that you you can kind of look at a problem and say, like the simple, very repeatable tasks should be at the very, you know, beginning of your automate list. Right. They're going to be easy, they're going to be quick wins, they're going to be able to do that. Repeatable, complex ones are actually also kind of short on the list, too. And those kind of two sets of categories are going to be a lot of your back office stuff. So that's probably the easiest stuff. Document processing and extraction, things like that. The areas that are going to be hard are going to be on that other side of the spectrum where you're looking at more of the like, hey, there isn't a whole lot of like repeatability in here. Yeah. And then anything that is like working with an actual human. The way that I like frame it in my head is um it's lovely. And I think everyone at large really loves to automate away the non-human tasks. Because like, do people really want to be doing that kind of work? Right. Like that's the that's the piece that I I tend to dislike that kind of work. Yeah. And I feel like mundane. Yes, exactly. So I I think that's the the area that we all, I would hope, want to kind of like rid that from people's plates. And and that is unfortunate if someone's entire role is in that category. Yeah. Right. Like, well, one could argue that, like, hey, like there are a ton of other very human necessary jobs that you could upskill and learn and figure out. I would wager that it's going to be more fulfilling for you at the same time, right? Yeah, versus just stamping out the thing every time.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Right, like an Excel style job where you're just living in data entry or yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

And I I call it the proverbial, um, just kind of like, you know, the line, working the line of moving data, whatever it might be. Yeah. So some examples of that area in our industry that I feel like are going to be less automatable and and less prone to kind of so I guess there's two categories, right? Again, um, big on my categories. They are the ones that we can't automate or the ones that we shouldn't automate, right? I think are you.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

That was honestly going to be my next question. So if you want to start with the things we can't automate, and then I'd love to know what we shouldn't automate.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Right now, the can't automate in the brokerage space is a little thin. Yeah. I would say there's a a lot a lot of things that haven't been fully automated or automated well. Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Or we're still waiting for certain tech to improve before it can be automated.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah. Um, because like the thing is, is like a lot of the platforms that are going in and working with brokerages to apply automation, they do have voice bots. They do have the ability to receive inbound calls or make external outbound calls.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Right. So maybe it's not what can't we automate, but what can't we automate right now?

unknown 3:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Or what can't we automate well.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

I personally don't think that we can automate voice conversations well right now.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

So slightly obvious.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've I've worked with a couple of the platforms and have piloted and tested them, and they're close. Yeah. But like they're still, you know, when you're on a conversation and like you have a bad connection or something, and there's like that lag, and you kind of like talk over each other kind of thing. Yeah. That's kind of uh the best, not the best way to describe it, but uh a way I can describe it.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Because that's what makes a conversation very obviously human.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Right. And like the so the other piece that a lot of people are working on really hard in the global AI industry is the the the way we can interrupt each other in conversation to enhance the conversation. Yeah. It just completely like falls on its face.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

There are some people who have good approaches and it's it's just hard to emulate it. But I I I would say the counterargument to it is I think if you take the approach that you're the people who are talking on these phone calls know and are told that they're talking to an AI, I think people will start to build an understanding of how to do it. Yeah. Because there is a way, you know, when you're talking to Xfinity on the phone, sorry, Xfinity, but you know, it's like, what can we help you with today? Like, oh, I I have a problem with uh my router isn't working. Like, yeah. Oh, okay. You know, you you know what you have to say to get it to go down the path that you assume that's it.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Versus the people who are trying to implement, you know, bots that are talking to you and they're trying to sort of convince you it's not a bot. And then if you realize it is, that starts to get very frustrating from the human experience.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Very frustrating. And I am gonna take a guess and say that it will be illegal at some point.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

I think like the disclosure that you're an AI is going to, I don't know when it'll happen, probably in the next like two years.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Probably within a year.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Because like, yeah, you'd be like, It's like when you say this call may be recorded.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Like it's gonna be the same sort of disclosure.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Wait, frankly, like depending on the system you're using, they are inherently recorded. Right. Right. So like there it there's that disclosure, but then yeah, because like it's probably being built out to a transcript somewhere or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Exactly, and fed to an actual human or later after the fact.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

So yeah, not only that disclosure, but then also like, yeah, the the fact that we would need to to make sure that yeah, that that it's a bot being spoken with, I think will be uh be a thing. But the other areas are are going to be like document processing is getting pretty good. That's probably not in that category, but like some handwritten stuff might be a little difficult still. The the whole nature of all of this though is like the goal is to get as much of the bottom as you can, and then just raising up the you know five, 10, 15% of things it can't do to the human that can then go and help with it.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Right. And frankly, gives them more time to improve upon whatever those pieces are that they can now focus on. Um, if you want to touch in now on sort of what you think shouldn't be automated in the brokerage space or just uh in the business space in general, and then I mean, maybe a little sub-question to that, um, what you think shouldn't be automated here at Fifth Wheel, um, in order for us to maintain who we are in our DNA. We we have very talented people in these walls, and I'm sure we could automate a lot of things if we wanted to, but it's a question of whether we should to maintain the reputation we have with customers, carriers, employees, all of that.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

I think across the board, whenever there's a human conversation happening, yeah, I think that it's important that we maintain that. And I think all of us leadership at Fifth will agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Partially for our mental health.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Yeah, I'm kidding. I mean, we all we all want connection. We all we are I I think we're built for it. There's a a quote that I've seen kind of go around online that's like, I always thought AI was going to take away the things I didn't want to do. Not not replacing the art and the music and the conversation and the areas that I actually love. Yeah. And that you could argue are like the most human, right? I think that it's important that we draw a line and and call that like human connection one of the gold standards of area that we don't remove.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

And right, not entirely at least.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Right, right. So there are, I would say, some caveats on some human connection can be very trivial and transactional. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Like calling Xfinity and saying my router's broken. Yeah, yeah. I don't need to talk to it.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

I want to talk to it.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Well, yes, sometimes I do.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah, like and and I think it's gotta be taken case by case because like depending on the scenario, I am alright working with a bot. If it can do what I need it to do, yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

I think like most people probably would. They may not like know that experience because they may have not had it, right? Or there's a been a there's been a scenario where it actually worked.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

So yeah, when I'm chatting with a bot and it's like not understanding my question and not connecting me with a real person, that's where it's like, okay, if it can answer my question, give me the right help article, whatever, wonderful. I don't need to talk to a human.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Yep. So I'll kind of like stream through a couple of scenarios that I don't see us ever automating. Any sort of recruitment or any sort of like conversations with uh potential people who will work here, yeah, I think should always be done with a person. Yeah. I think that they should be faced. Uh the very first impression should be a human voice, should have that ability to kind of go back and forth and do well to kind of impress upon them like who we are, right? And being that human focus that we have.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

It's a good first impression versus sending them to some sort of automated system. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

There are a couple of areas in the carrier conversation that I believe both parties would like to start to automate away. I think there's a there's a good chance that some check calls that end up being like very transactional, very trivial can be honestly under 10 seconds. Right. Can be like, hey, you good? You know? Yep. Like, and the idea being, you know, if we can catch any sort of issues or anything like that, okay, escalate that to a human. Because if they're having a problem, you don't want the bot like doing it.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Trying to solve the problem.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

It's really no different than like transitioning from calling people to texting people. It's just like, how can we automate it even better?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yes, yep. Another area that I think is is really important not to automate is sales outreach. Cold calls, outbound solicitation, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

But the tools are there to do it. It's just it's gonna get so annoying. Like think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

They're also like, in my opinion, not very great. I mean, the amount of times I get called by a name, an email that doesn't even work in this building, it's not like they just mistaked me for the, you know, a different person. Be like, hi, Bill, and we don't even have a bill in the building.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yep, yep. Because the reality is, is you know, I've been pitched tools that we can tee up hundreds of calls in a click. Right. And have them all kind of like you can just see them skimming through, right? And making these conversations. And like you can even do that. Parallel dialers are a thing too, where you can like tee up 20 calls, and whoever answers you just kind of get in line and answer them. That's a little weird too, but I think that these tools and these these capabilities are going to really kill any sort of ability to do any outreach in general, like this, because people are just gonna have their phones off at a certain point, or there's probably something, you know, it's it's hard to say exactly, but I do think the the area of outbound calls should not be um outbound sales calls.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Another one that I think is gonna be really important to to kind of keep in the human world, and I say this for both the brokerages and the carriers, is rate negotiation. Yeah. Some players in the space have um done some work at this, yeah, and it's always going to benefit the broker. It's always gonna benefit the broker. I don't think it's good for the ecosystem. I think that the carrier should be able to hold their their own in that conference. Because what the what they end up doing is they make it an iron wall on rate negotiation.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

There's a there's a cap at some point that the bot is aware of.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Right. Right. So, like, hey, it's for$1,100. All right, you can get, you know,$1,125, and that's all you get. The piece that I think we need to maintain is understanding who that carrier is and keeping in context their history, yeah, the the rapport that has been built, and like making sure that that is all baked into the rate negotiation. At the end of the day, these bots aren't going to be programmed in a carrier-centric or a carrier-positive way. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

They don't know that this guy ran a last minute load for us last week and really did us a favor and did it at a great rate and was incredibly kind to our staff and incredibly grateful for the opportunity. And so, you know what, we're gonna give them a little bit more on this load. Um, versus had someone else called in, we might not have given them that much. You know, so that's so much nuance. And maybe in the future, that's something that bots can understand and that we can program into them, but not now.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yeah, the tools that I've seen um that try to accomplish rate negotiation, they don't. And that's I think the piece. Yeah, we might we might need to build a proprietary way to do it if we're going to ever think about approaching it. But in such a human exchange of negotiation, I think it's like something so like visceral inside of us, like and it's also the paycheck.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

It's the carrier's paycheck, it's how they're feeding their family and putting dinner on the table. And yeah, so I mean it's yeah, it is, it does feel a bit like insensitive almost to like just fully automate that.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Yep. I think we have a competitive advantage by treating carriers and drivers as humans. Yeah, and I think they'll be drawn to us because of that. I think I think that's on the should. Um, there's a large number of them. Most of them are going to be around that human connection, though. Don't don't automate your HR, you know. Yeah. Don't, you know, taking care of people internally. There might be some like area of like, oh, you know, I want to learn about my 401k plan or something like that. That like is like I'm in, you know, commonly asked. Yep. But like when there are actual problems that people are having, like human let's make sure that that always stays around, right? It's kind of how I would answer the the should be.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Yeah. Is there anything that you feel like brokerages generally speaking could have and should have automated a long time ago? And it like took the space a while to catch up, like anything that comes to mind there.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

The first thing that comes to mind is um getting tendered loads and having customer conversations about loads over email. That is something that you'll you'll talk to any brokerage out there and it happens, right? It happens everywhere. There are like a million ways to have, you know, you obviously still want to have the conversation with a customer, whether that's over email or text or or phone or or in person or or whatever. But there are a lot of companies who still hinder all of their freight over email. And those end up being manual emails that people are going and asking that rate negotiation each time and what have you. And it just feels like something that the industry has held on to for a long time. And I I really do think um it comes down to like the yeah, lowest common denominator. I've heard I've heard Jesse Buckingham mention that from Vuma. He's he's known to say, yeah, it's the lowest common denominator is email, and it's those conversations. So when we're applying automation, we at times need to meet at that lowest common denominator. So I think about that often. I would say that's probably one of the more common ones. Another one is just document processing in general. It's so easy to OCR and document detection and that deal. So sending documents via email and manually, you know, processing them and doing that thing. That's um something that I think is just starts to become archaic very quickly. Yes. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Thanks for listening to Inside Freight by Fifth Wheel Freight, where we break down the logistics topics that matter to brokers, shippers, and carriers. FWF is a third party logistics provider headquartered in Grand Rapids, Michigan, specializing in truckload, LTL, drayage, rail, overdimensional, and expedited freight across the US and Canada. To learn more, visit FWF.com or follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube.