An Eczema Story of Hope: Eli

In this powerful episode of the Skincredible Podcast, Dr. Swanson sits down with Eli and his mom, Michelle, for a deeply personal conversation about living with eczema (atopic dermatitis) and molluscum contagiosum—and how chronic skin conditions impact not just one person, but an entire family.

Eli bravely shares his journey through the physical discomfort and emotional challenges of eczema, from persistent itching and flare-ups to navigating school, confidence, and daily life. Michelle opens up about the family’s experience from a parent’s perspective, including the opinions of many people on how Eli should be medically treated, and finally the hope that came with real improvement. This episode is ultimately about resilience, support, and transformation. Together, they reveal how eczema doesn’t just affect the individual—it ripples through siblings, routines, sleep, and family dynamics. 

Whether you’re dealing with eczema flare-ups, searching for eczema treatment options, or looking for real-life stories about living with eczema, this conversation offers honesty, hope, and connection.

Topics covered include:

• Living with eczema as a child and teen
• Molluscum contagiosum (briefly)
• Emotional impact of chronic skin conditions
• Family life with eczema
• Parenting a child with eczema
• Eczema treatment journey and breakthroughs
• How skin health affects mental health

Keywords

eczema, atopic dermatitis, eczema treatment, eczema relief, eczema flare up, itchy skin, dry skin, molluscum contagiosum, pediatric eczema, eczema healing journey, skin condition support, family health, dermatologist advice, eczema before and after, real eczema stories, beetle juice, cantharadin, wet wraps

Chapters

00:00 Welcome, Intro to Eli

01:30 Purpose of Having Families on Skincredible

02:15 Eli’s Eczema History

04:30 Emotionoal & Financial Cost of Eczema 

07:00 Medication Safety Warnings

11:00 Hardest Parts of Eczema

15:00 Anxiety, Depression & Eczema

16:20 Molluscum & Beetle Juice

22:00 The Mystery of Eczema Flare Ups

24:30 Family and Other Opinions 

26:17 Moving Around the World

28:00 Best and Worst Places for Eli’s Eczema

30:00 Explanation and Breakdown of Therapies

34:00 Urticarial Reaction to Nemluvio

36:00 Weighing Shot vs. Pill Options

38:00 Starting Rinvoq (upadacitinib) Pills

42:00 Feeling “Ready” For Certain Therapies

44:00 Trickle Down Healthcare 

51:00 Eli’s Itch Free Life

52:40 Don’t Lose Hope

55:00 A Force for Good

58:45 Thank You & Goodbye

The information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for personalized medical advice. Always consult your  physician regarding your health.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Skin Credible, where we tell you what you should know about your skin and how to glow. Because your skin's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Hello, everybody, and welcome to another wonderful, glorious episode of the Skin Credible Podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Swanson, and I'm here today with some very special people. I have one of my patients, Eli, and his mom, Michelle. Thank you guys so much for coming on the podcast. Eli, how does it feel to be on a podcast?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Crazy, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Like crazy? Have any of your friends ever been on a podcast?

SPEAKER_01 0:45

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Wow. And so do you how do you feel about being here? Are you nervous? Are you excited? Are you a little bit of both?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Both, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Both. And you're also eager to have this be done with and go see the Super Mario Brothers movie? Yeah. Yeah. That does sound fun. Well, I wanted to bring you guys on the podcast because you guys have had such a journey with eczema through Eli's entire life. And I think that journey is so important to share with others because there are a lot of other people who are experiencing the same thing. They're watching their child go through the same thing. And it can feel like you're alone in that. And I want the podcast to be a place where people can come and listen and see, I'm not alone. Other kids and other families have done this. They've come out the other side. Their life is better. I can help make my life better and my child's life better. And so as we talked in the clinic, the last time I saw you guys, I was like, you know, this story I think is so powerful and worth sharing with the world. So I really appreciate you guys coming on and being open to talk about it. You guys and I first met in summer 2025. But Eli, how old are you?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

I'm 13.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

13 years old. So prior to us meeting, he had had roughly 12 years, you guys had had roughly 12 years of experience dealing with eczema. Right. Mom, tell me about that from the start. Like how old was Eli when he first started showing symptoms?

SPEAKER_04 2:19

So Eli was six months old. Six months old. When he first started showing symptoms of eczema, and it was pretty extreme. Um it was all over his face. It was mostly on his face, actually, when he was a baby. Which is a common pattern. Which is very common. Yeah. And uh we're a military family, and so we move a lot. And at that time we were in uh Washington State, and then you know, I take him to the pediatrician, and then of course they give you a cream and uh tell you about different kinds of lotions. And this was like, you know, 12 years ago. I didn't really I have I have four kids, yeah. He's the youngest. Yeah, none of my other kids have eczema. Interesting. No one in my family has eczema. Yeah, never dealt with eczema ever. Yeah. So it was just something new with Eli.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

And so we go along with the creams and the oatmeal baths and the Vaseline and you know, the humidifiers in the rooms and all the things for years and years. And at this time, we're moving every 12 to 24 months. So when I say we've seen doctors all around the world, we literally have seen doctors all around the world for eczema. Wow. And so when he was about four or five preschool, it got really bad. And we were stationed in Virginia at the time. And we went to the university there and saw a really popular dermatologist, and she introduced us to wet wrapping. I have pictures of he literally looked like a little mummy because it was all over his hands, his thighs, his feet, his head, um, everywhere. The eczema was just everywhere. Um, his armpits, all the cracks, you know, where it gets warm. And so we started wet wrapping. We learned about bleach baths, which was a little scary. I didn't really like it. Sounds harsh. It does. It's it ends up being diluted than a swimming pool. It does. It takes time to get comfortable to a bleach bath. Yeah. So we learned about the bleach baths. Yes. Um I probably purchased everything under the sun to try to control his eczema.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

I think that's something that isn't brought up a lot. Even in my dermatologist circles, the cost of echimass.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

I'm sorry, but they are. No, some of them are. They really are. Um was the fear that I would get from because we saw many different pediatricians about the warnings of overusing the steroids. Right. That his skin barrier was gonna break down and it the it was just gonna get so thin, and then things were gonna change and it was gonna be really difficult for him. But honestly, to control the flare-ups, we had our two magic creams, the D cream and the T cream. Yep. And of course, we get the M cream sometimes when there's cracks and you have to control bacteria and things like that. But we those were the creams we always fell back on. Yes. And we used them excessively. Sure. And everywhere we went, you know, we would have to see an allergist. Yes. We have to take a test. Yes. Always came back negative. Yes. Always allergic to mold. Well, who isn't allergic to mold? Right? Right. Yeah. He was barely there. Yeah. He was never allergic to anything. Yeah. I put him on so many different diets. Yes. I put him on a gluten-free diet, a dairy-free diet, a sugar-free diet, an anti-inflammatory diet. I put him on every single diet because again and again, with every new state or every new country, we were being told, you know, um, you can control this with diet, uh, with topical creams. And then the internet started getting really popular, like Instagram. And so, of course, you know, Instagram might be creeping on me a little bit because all of my Instagram for you page was eczema creams. And so I literally would spend, I've probably spent thousands of dollars on honey creams and tallow creams and ocean creams and algae stuff. And I mean, I've purchased, if it's out there, I've bought it. Right. And nothing ever seemed to take the eczema away.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:34

And then doctors would say, well, it's a gut issue, so probiotics. And I purchased all the probiotics. I did everything. Yes. And it wasn't until we came here, um, and no no doctors ever, ever recommended anything orally. Yeah. Ever. Yeah. I was never given that option.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

I was told about some scary things with black box warnings, but you know, you don't really entertain those when, you know, you just feel like, well, you know, I guess we're gonna keep chugging along.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

That's that's a good point because in my clinic, of course, I'm gonna talk about safety with respect to anything I'm gonna prescribe. And some of the medicines we prescribe do have safety warnings on them from the FDA. Yeah. And I have started calling them safety warnings rather than black box warnings. That's that's less scary. To just kind of, you know, um, it's more gentle because I worry that sometimes if I say the word black box warning, that people kind of shut down.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Oh, absolutely. I did every time.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Right? Yeah. Oh yeah. Even if the next words out of my mouth are very reassuring and the warning is here, but we don't really worry about it because of this and that and the other thing. I feel like sometimes people aren't able to hear that if I've started with the phrase black box warning. 100%. Yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_04 7:55

Anytime, you know, like I said, I have four kids. Anytime a doctor would say, Yes, we could do this, but there's a black box warning. Right. You know, and not even entertain or have a conversation about the side effects. The thing that I appreciate about the way you approached any side effects with the medication was you have actually researched the studies behind what the black box warning was actually and you know, why it's there. Yeah. And that made me feel so much more comfortable knowing that my son really didn't fall into those categories. Right. So it wouldn't hurt to try something new. Um, because yes, I think it's a big disservice when physicians say, Yes, but there's a black box warning, and then that's it.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

And it's like and red flags and you're freaking out, and it's like, okay, I'm done now. You know, I think it's so important to set the context of it because some medicines have warnings simply because they're in the same family as another medicine, even though you know that medicine is a pill and the medicine I'm prescribing is a cream, right? You know, all of these things. So I think it's always really important to kind of set that.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Um, the D and the T creams for the audience. The D cream Oh, yes, yes, just to clarify in case people are like, What's what cream is? I know what is a D and T cream. Um the D cream is designite, which is a low potency topical steroid appropriate for use, like on face and body folds. And then triumpcinolone is the T one. And we use that twice a day as needed for areas on the body. And then the M cream is mupirisin, yes, which we use in case things are infected and things like that. It's a topical antibiotic. Right. And sometimes we will use these topical steroids with the wet dressings. Eli, do you remember the the time of your life that you were doing wet dressings, or did you block it all out?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

When we wet wrapped you. I don't remember it.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

You don't remember. It's been erased. Yes. Because we did have to depend on a lot of these things back in the olden days, which by olden days I mean like more than eight to ten years ago. We had limited options and we had to make those options work for us because we didn't want people just suffering with eczema their whole lives. So we used the topical steroids. They were effective, they were cheap. We could make them work a little bit better if we did the wet dressings with them. So we did all of that.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Back in the day, we certainly prescribed and used more topical steroids than I think we would do today. But it was different times, you know. We simply didn't have the choices that we did today. So we had to use the tools that we had in our toolbox back then.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Uh, and they did help to some degree, as you guys found with the wet dressings, with the D and the T, like you could kind of keep it under control. You could get temporary relief. Temporary relief. Yes. What did you see as Eli grew up was kind of the biggest burden for him? Was it, and I'm gonna ask the biggest burden for you in a moment. For Eli, was it the what was it the itch? Was it the sleepless nights? Was it the embarrassment about just having eczema and people being able to see it? What was the worst part of growing up with eczema?

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Um probably having people see it, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Having people see it. Would you wear like longer sleeves and pants just so people might not notice it as much?

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Sometimes, sure. Mom, what did you see Eli experience that broke your heart? The itching.

SPEAKER_04 11:29

The itching. The constant itching. I had figured after he turned about six or seven that he had developed like a tick, that it was just something that he was gonna do forever. Yeah. It was constant, and he didn't even know he was doing it. No, because we were constantly telling him, like, Eli, stop scratching. Because, you know, we're all told eczema starts with a scratch and it starts going and going and going and spreading. Um, and so we were really mindful, you know. We my son slept with cotton gloves on at night. Um, so I would like lather the Vaseline really thick on his hands because eczema is always really bad on your hands from washing hands. Yes. So we'd wear like the little girl Easter cotton gloves to bed every night, socks if we had to, which even in the middle of the night, he was my husband would sleep with him sometimes to keep an eye on him because we could never figure out why he was all undressed. Yeah. It's just your bodies, like we had to the would just take him off in the middle of the night and always be scratching and scratching and scratching. And that was what bothered me the most because I felt like I did a pretty good job of concealing his eczema because, you know, uh it I always felt bad that people could see it. And I didn't want yeah, you know, kids can be silly sometimes, and I didn't want him getting teased for his eczema.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Well, and sometimes people misunderstand, you know, like they see a rash, they like it the like the cootie factor, even though eczema is of course not.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

It really can get pretty nasty if you don't have it under control. So the worst part for him was his hands, but the scratching just never stopped. Yeah. It never stopped no matter what we did. Yeah. We could not get a grip on that itching, that constant urge to itch.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Do you remember all of that, Eli? Your childhood was full of itchy and itchy episodes.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah, sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Yeah. Do you feel like you slept okay back in those days?

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Um, I I did.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

You did. Yeah. Your parents probably heard you scratching all night, but at least you felt like you were well rested. That's good.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

That's what's kind of cool about kids is they when they sleep, boy. I mean, I don't know, my kids, when they sleep, they sleep. Yes. I mean, Eli can sleep through a fire alarm. He literally has before. Yeah. And it that must be so nice because when you're an adult, it doesn't work like that. Oh, you know, I always worried about him waking up in the middle of the night because of the scratching. So we would keep a close eye on him, but it never really woke him up. But it was just odd to see his body continuing to do the motions all night long. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And then to get even more frustrated because bedtime routines with eczema are exhausting. Yes. It takes a lot of work to soak your child. Yeah. And right when they get out of that bath, you have to get that cream on so fast or you have to wet wrap them so fast. Yeah. Then you have to layer them with gloves and clothes and then put them into bed. And then you walk in in the morning and you're just like, Yeah. And they're just a big rash again because all they did was spend the entire night stripping themselves down and scratching their skin. Yeah. So it was constant. It was constant.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Some of the kids I treat, they are not excited about these topical routines.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

Oh, we, it was a big fight in our house every single night. Yeah. I mean, and bless their hearts. We don't know what it feels like. Right. If you don't have eczema, you don't know what it feels like.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

It's so so true.

SPEAKER_04 14:53

It is very painful. Yeah. And I mean the tears, the crying, because the tea cream and the D cream, you know, they sting.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

And um, you know, putting these things on your child and fighting them and holding them down and trying, it was just torture. Yes. But you know you're doing what's best for them. You gotta get this stuff on because it does provide a small amount of relief and healing.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

But it all just keeps coming back. Yeah. It just it we just tortured him for years. And we tortured ourselves. Right. It was awful.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Well, and to that point, um, anxiety and depression levels in parents of kids with eczema are quite high. I believe that. In fact, in a recent study, they compared anxiety and depression levels amongst adults who have eczema to anxiety and depression levels in the parents of kids who have eczema, and they were higher in the parents of the kids. I believe that.

SPEAKER_04 15:44

I believe that 100%. Yeah. That was probably there. Yeah. I mean, I believe that a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Yeah. And we know that there is a percentage of kids that outgrow eczema.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Yeah. And that's the hard part. Right. Because you're told that at a very young at the very at the beginning. Yes. And you're always waiting to get to that point. Yeah. It's like, okay, another year is gone. Another year is gone. Another year is gone. One um journey we also walked with eczema. And I don't know statistically if this is common with kids that have eczema. When we were living in Italy, uh, Eli's eczema flared up really bad. And then molluscum came in. Oh, yes. I've never in my life. And the way they treat molluscum in Italy is with the snail serum.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Is that what or the Oh, it's probably the beetle juice from the beetle bug?

SPEAKER_04 16:35

I or the blister beetle? I didn't know much about it. Yeah. And Eli's Molluscum was all over his body.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Oh. They treated all of them? 25. Oh.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

And that poor kid, that was the do you remember how bad? Do you remember? It was so bad. I cried and cried for days because I felt like the worst mom in the world that I allowed them to treat him the way that they did. And they're just doing that, you know, they're doing what they do. It's how they treated out there. Yeah. But I didn't realize how bad it burned. Yes. And how bad it hurt.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Well, and then on top of baseline eczema, it and the molluscum was on the eczema.

SPEAKER_04 17:11

Yes. Because they feed off of one another. It was so bad. And after that, I was just like exhausted. Yeah. And I mean, molluscum just by itself is probably the worst thing ever to have to deal with.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

I'd rather deal with eczema than molluscum, honestly. Yeah. But the two of them combined like that. And then trying to apply the D cream and the tea cream. Right. On top of that. Because the eczema is angry. Yes. And it's just like a fire in his body. Yes. It was probably the worst thing we've ever been through. And I've been so thankful and that we never got molluscum again. But yeah. I it's always in the back of my mind with the eczema because I feel like they're more susceptible to it. They are. And so it's nerve-wracking.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Kids with, you know, pretty much all kids will get molluscum, but kids with eczema tend to experience them far worse.

SPEAKER_04 18:02

Oh, I've it was when I tell you it was bad, it was bad. Oh. And he had more than 25 spots. Yeah. But they only treated 25 ones. Oh my gosh. It was literally from head to toe. Oh, on his face, his hands, his bottom, everywhere. It was everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

I don't do a ton of Betelgeuse for that reason. Like, yes, it can be very effective for the molluscum, but it really blisters and it can be a very uncomfortable experience.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

Painful.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Yeah. And when I do Betelgeuse, I'll start out by just treating like four or five. Oh. You know, just to kind of try it out. How tolerable is this? You know, that sort of thing. So for the listeners out there, if you're considering Betelgeuse, which is an appropriate treatment for molluscum. Yes. If you're considering it, I would encourage just doing like four or five spots the first time, just so you know what you're getting into.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

You know, not on your sensitive parts. And not on your sensitive parts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

It pick a couple on your back, pick a couple on your arm for it.

SPEAKER_04 18:56

And it was pretty bad. Yeah. It was pretty bad. And being in a foreign country and not being able to speak the language really clearly, especially when it comes to medical terminology. Oh, of course. And just kind of trusting um a doctor somewhere else. Yeah, it was it was wild. Yeah. It was wild. But um it's just, you know, one of those things that with eczema, I just feel like there's nothing good. Right. Right. You know, from eczema at all. And then came Molluscum and it was like, oh dear, you know, do it happen again.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Do you think kind of circling back to the growing out of it? Like it's it's kind of like a tease. Like it is a tease. You know, like it's some kids do literally outgrow it. Um, do you think we should not lean into that when we're talking to families? Should we, you know, I I tend to think of it as um, you know, I I like to always give hope. You know, no matter what condition I'm treating, no matter what I'm managing, I always like to lead with hope. And because some kids do outgrow it, I feel like I do tell families that um and say, but in the meantime, we're gonna control it and all that kind of stuff. Should I not? Is that is it creating potential disappointment down the road?

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Well, for me, from my personal experience, yes. And the reason is because I feel like I was given a false hope because at first I felt like they were playing like the genetics card. Oh, so we don't have it in my family. Right. My other daughters didn't get it. Right. Um I kind of have my own feelings as to why I believe Eli got it, and you know, I'm dealing with that on my own, but I now looking back through the journey and the process we went through, but maybe because we did see so many doctors, we weren't ever with one pediatrician ever his whole life. Right. It was the same script, every doctor. Yeah. And it's exhausting and it's frustrating because he wasn't growing out of it. Right. Going to a new doctor over and over and over again, it was exhausting. Yeah because it wasn't ever happening. Right. And then I remember one doctor telling me, Oh, when he goes through puberty, it'll go away. And I was like, no, it won't. It won't. It won't. You know, I mean, and it's like the same, I just feel like it's something that doctors, I feel like, does it make you feel better to say that?

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Right. At that point. Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

And it was like, okay, he's like 11 now. I'm hearing the same thing over and over again. I just accept it as, well, that makes them feel better to say that, and I'll just smile and nod. Right. But I know the truth. Yeah. This is not ever gonna go away. Right. Because it's not. And we are doing, you know, everything under the sun. Yeah. I'm buying everything under the sun. Yeah. I'm putting new filters in my home and I'm I'm doing, I'm researching it, and it consumes your entire life. Yes. You are constantly thinking about that. You know, what could I do better in my house? Or I mean, and I didn't just spend money on creams and humidifiers. I'm talking 100% organic cotton sheets, uh, laundry detergents. I've tried every laundry detergent on the market. Yeah. Just anything you can name, I probably know it. Yeah. Organic, not organic, anything. Clothing, yeah. Um, you know, cleaning products, anything that comes in my house, I'm always thinking, yeah, would that cause my son's eczema to get bad? Right. Because you cannot pinpoint what is causing the flare-ups.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:29

You, it doesn't matter what you do, right? You cannot figure it out. It's something that is just nobody knows. And they still don't know.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Right. So you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. And, you know, when families ask me, I say, you know, some flare-ups can have an explanation, like a recent viral illness, you know, it's common, common to see a flare-up after that. Stress, it's common to see a flare-up after that. Um, you know, if you are exposed to a new irritant, you know, you travel, you're exposed to something. But a lot of them, there's no rhyme or reason to do it.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

There's not. And people tell you, you know, change your laundry detergent. Yeah. And you change your laundry detergent, and the eczema is the same. Yeah. There's no change. Change your soaps, change your cleaning products, change your underwear, change your clothes, you know, like only wear a hundred percent organic. But it's consistently the same degree of eczema. Yeah. Nothing. I will say with the viruses and the stress, those are things that you can there's a reaction, something's happening, and then you can physically see it. Yes. But with the soaps, you can't see it. I know. And God bless the people who can buy the magic creams and change their detergents and things too happen. Yeah. Bless them. That's amazing. Yeah. I didn't get so lucky.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

I do tell families that, like, when I'm reviewing sensitive skincare products, I say, you know, there are some people out there who are lucky and they just switch these things and everything is fine. I don't meet a lot of those people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

You know, it's funny too, because I I do prefer to be as holistic as possible. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why when we came here and you kind of introduced a lot of things I'd never even heard of. Yeah. I, I mean, after the first appointment, I was kind of scared. Yeah. I was like, oh gosh, you know, because we are a pretty crunchy house. You know, we eat organic and clean. Our products are, you know, we try to keep chemicals at a minimum. We try to be as healthy as we can. Yeah. Um, and medication in my children kind of freaked me out. Sure. It it just does. Sure. Um, so it was nerve-wracking for me to think about because you gave me all of the options. I did. And it was a long list of options, which blew my mind because I didn't even know they were available for us. I'm just so thankful because it took me a while to just kind of change my mindset about certain things. Yeah. And I also have a lot of people in the family that will kind of give their opinion. Yeah, oh, lots of opinions in family about, you know, what they think that I'm doing. Right. Not just even with his medication, but things I take. You know, people are very opinionated. Very opinionated. I have a daughter in uh nursing school that's studying and she's opinionated about things, which I appreciate that you know can be complicated too. So I I I know there's a burden with friends and family once they find things out because people were asking because it was so drastic. Yeah. Um, and then when we started treatment, it was like instant for Eli. Yeah, which was I like cried. I was so happy. But people were like, Oh, what are you doing? Yeah. And then you kind of freak out. Like, should I say should I tell them?

SPEAKER_03 25:28

Should I tell them what we're doing?

SPEAKER_04 25:29

I mean, I think about that too, like with people who lose weight and if they're doing something to help themselves, they're probably the same way panicking, like they probably are.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Should I say anything? No. I thought of that same analogy.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

You should be proud of what you're doing. Doing for your health and your yes, yes, yes. You know, so that's we've we've also, you know, walked that path too. But, you know, now and I still, you know, sometimes my mother will chime in, you know, like, are you still have Eli on that medication? You know, this and I'm like, No, we're good, we're good. Yeah, you know, I trust my doctor. Yes, you know, we're doing great.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

I hear, I hear all of that, like the opinions from the in-laws, the grandparents, you know, even like neighbors, um, of course, people on the internet, you know, all of these things. Yeah. Eli. How many cities do you remember living in?

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Uh like six. Six? I don't remember. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Yeah. Since Eli was born, mom, how many cities have you lived in? In thirteen years?

SPEAKER_03 26:38

Maybe thirteen.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

Just the thirteen years?

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:41

So he's on eight. Eight. Six of them. That's pretty good. Do you have a favorite? What's your absolute favorite place you lived? Come on. Like in the States.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

No, in the world. Totally.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

Where's your favorite place to live? Italy?

unknown 26:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

Italy. Where in Italy were you guys? Do you remember the town?

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Yeah. So we were stationed in Vincenza. Where's your favorite place to go in Italy? Venice.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Venice. I love Venice. What do you like about it? All the boats.

SPEAKER_04 27:13

I was saying I like the boat ride. Yeah. We had a lot of fun in Venice. Yeah. We did a lot of cool things.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Yeah. And with all those moves, you have all these different climates which can also wreak havoc on your skin. Was there a city where your skin did the best? And then a city where your skin did the worst that you remember?

SPEAKER_04 27:36

I know the worst one. Actually, there are two cities that take the cake for the worst. You know the best? Well, I'll say the worst and then you can tell me maybe one of them.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

I think it might be here.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Is the worst?

SPEAKER_01 27:53

No, the best. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

That is true. Yeah. The worst I ever saw his eczema was Virginia.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

Especially in the summer. Yeah. Which is odd because it's very humid there.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Yes, but sometimes kids are like 75% of kids are wintertime like dry flares and then 25% are summertime sweaty flares.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

The other one was Minnesota. Oh, yeah. In the wintertime. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Because it's humid cold.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

Yeah. Those were the two where he spent the most time in and out of the clinics. Yeah. Because his skin was just the worst. Do you remember doing wet dressings?

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Not really. You remember in Virginia? He was in preschool. In preschool. Yeah. How did you feel about being a kid growing up with eczema?

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Well, I felt normal as a kid, but probably because you didn't know any different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

You know, your whole life was spent with eczema. And so you guys were traveling the world, living in all of these wonderful, beautiful places. Yes. And then you end up moving to Boise, Idaho, and meeting me. And we met in August 2025. So summer of 2025. And as you said, mom, I like to go over all the options. Yeah, you do. Because I like people to know. Like there are so many great things that we could do to control it.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

When you pulled out your little clipboard and written them all down, I was like, there's no way there can be that much.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

You know, I want people to know there's lots, like it's not one size fits all. Um, there's lots of different options that you have to feel comfortable with to pick for yourself and your family. And we've got so many choices. And also I think by presenting the list, it tells people, well, if the first thing I try doesn't work, like there are other things. And I think that's really positive.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

Well, that's what I appreciate about the way you did it is you started with topical solutions. Yeah. Then you started with injectables, and then you moved on to pills, and you had a level for each one. So it was nice to be able to say, okay, if we start topically and we start with number three cream, there's number one. Right. And then you also break it down categorically based on severity or what kids have or don't have. And so we're able to kind of make up our own mind. And that's what I appreciated the most. Yeah. Is that you didn't just push us into something right away. You said, here's where pick what you want. Yeah. And you had no problem with whatever we chose. Right. Yeah. So it was nice to be able to say, okay, my son doesn't like needles. Right. He doesn't swallow pills very well. Right. We'll start with the creams. Yep. You know, and that's what we did. Yeah. We started with a cream that unfortunately that you had said a lot of my patients have very good luck on this cream.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

And they have even referred to it as the Porsche.

SPEAKER_04 30:47

Yeah, the Porsche the Porsche.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Sometimes I use a car analogy when I'm talking about the creams. Yeah. And we chose for for listeners, we chose Opsalura. Yes, we chose. Which is a topical jack inhibitor. And typically works very well and very fast. Yeah. And I really thought it was an excellent choice. I thought, I really thought it was gonna work great. Yeah. And it didn't.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

It didn't it didn't work at all. It didn't work at all. In fact, we were still going back to the steroids. Yeah. We were mixing it up with both of them. Yeah. And so then we got to come back and then we moved into the injectables.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

We had a long conversation about injectables. It was a big decision. It was a big decision for Eli. You were able to explain the way the injectables felt when they were injected. Yes. And then how long they lasted. Yes. So we, of course, chose the injectable that was supposed to last the longest and was the least painful. Exactly. And you did do it. The the first injectable we took did not hurt at all, did it? To inject. Yeah. You were more worried about the sound, I think, scared you more than the actual needle prick.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yeah. So we we discussed the three SHOTs, um, uh, which are dupixen, ebglis, and nemluvio. Right. Uh-huh. And Nemluvio is special because it's monthly dosing from the start. Right. The other two are every two weeks. Correct. Yeah. And Nemluvio's shot does not hurt. Right. Um it is not at all. I know. Not at all. In fact, some people, it's been a problem where people are like giving it to themselves and they're like, I don't feel anything. And then they lift it up and the medicine goes spewing everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 32:33

Would you say, did you even feel I don't even think you felt that on the way home? You told me that it you didn't even feel it? Yeah. Yeah. It didn't even leave a mark. What left the mark more was the device? The device itself, not the needle. Yeah, he even said to me on the way home, he said, No, you know, mom, that wasn't that bad. You could do that. That was really easy. Yeah. So I was like, okay, good.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

And then we were like, please, please work. Well, and Mluvia works by targeting its unique because it targets a particular cytokine that's responsible for itch. It's called IL 31.

SPEAKER_04 33:05

And that is why we actually chose that one as well. Because the itching has always been the biggest symptom that was causing the most amount of stress and distraction for Eli in school. Of course. So that's why we chose that one.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

And that is an important point because Eli had what we call itch predominant eczema.

SPEAKER_04 33:22

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Eczema is always itchy.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

But there are some people where like the itch is up here and like the skin rash is down here. And um, and so we call that itch predominant eczema. And folks with that do tend to do well with namluvio. Yeah. And so we gave you the first shot, and I remember hearing a day or two after that that already you guys were noticing improvement in the itchiness.

SPEAKER_04 33:47

Oh, yes. The itchiness almost went completely away, right? That was wonderful. Wonderful. It's very fast acting. It's very fast acting. Actually, within 24 hours, I believe that he was significantly less itching. Less itching. Yeah. We were really impressed. Yeah. The eczema was still there. Right. But the itching had stopped.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Well, and when I start patients on Mluvio, I say it's very, very fast for itch. It takes, it takes long like a longer time to get the skin clear. But even though the initial impression was good and we were feeling less itchy, um, things went awry.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

They sure did. They sure did.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

And by the time I saw you guys a month later for follow-up, it was not good. Uh Eli had broken out in like a hive-like or it was articarial eruption. He looked terrible. Um, out of curiosity, I don't remember if I asked you, Eli, when when everything looked real bad that day after we had started the Nemluvio. Was it itchy?

unknown 34:50

No.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

So it was itch-free, but you were like covered in rash.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

Everywhere. It was pretty bad.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

And this is something that happens. It happened in about 5% of patients in the original trials. There have been reports of it since Nemluvio came out. Something about inhibiting just the IL-31. Sometimes you get these like compensatory rashes that can look hive-like, they can they can look eczema-like, but they're typically not itchy because the medicine is controlling the itch. And this is happening to some people. And for some people, it's a mild thing and they actually like power through and can get beyond it. But you were covered. It was covered. You were covered. And so we had another conversation about our options. We did. And in this conversation, we talked about those shots again, the Dupixen and the Ebglis, which hurts hurt a little bit more, and they're every two weeks. But then we also talked about the pills. Eli, do you remember first hearing about the pills?

SPEAKER_01 35:52

A little bit.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

A little bit. And what did you think at first when you heard about the pills?

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Oh, I thought I wasn't gonna do them at all.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Sure. Because you were like, I don't think I can swallow the pills. Never swallowed pills. Never swallowed pills before. And we talked it over. And mom, what do you remember from that conversation? Kind of weighing these these two other shots versus these pills.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

I knew immediately that I didn't want to do the two other shots based on our conversations. You were really good about explaining how they work and how they feel. I just knew it wouldn't be a good fit for Eli. Yeah. Plus, I was just exhausted from the first experience with that. Yeah. Um, when we talked about the pills, I just appreciate the way I was really leery because you know I knew there was a black because you gave me the list at the very beginning. Yeah. And I went through all of them. And when we were talking about the pills, that pill was like a no on my list because I was like, there's no way that I'm gonna let my son do this pill. Right. Um, but again, you explained the trials and the age brackets of those trials. Yes. And it was a different medicine entirely. It was a completely different medicine and it worked a different way. And I was nervous about it because, you know, I felt like it was getting a it does get a lot of hype on TV. Yeah, you know, yeah. So I worry about that a little bit too. It was nerve-wracking for me. The pill was a little bit larger on the larger side for someone who's never swallowed pills before. Sure. But you gave us really good tips, which she still does today, and we've had no problems with it. Yay.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

So yeah. And so for the audience, we ended up choosing Rinvoke, which is a pill jack inhibitor. Um, like you said, mom, there are a lot of commercials on television for River.

SPEAKER_04 37:38

Yes. Not necessarily for eczema, though. No, it has it has a bunch of other indications. Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

You should advertise this to children with eczema. Yes, yes. Well, and and I think that's coming. Like right now, Rinvog is approved age 12 and up. And so they do get cautious, and I think appropriately so in trying to mark it too much to a younger demographic. Yeah. But Rinvog uh is in trials for the younger age space. And so I'm very much looking forward to that. I have heard their liquid taste awful though.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

Work on that. Just for us, you know, like you said, we started the Rinvog, and I have to say when he took the pill, it was almost within like three days. I've never seen my son without eczema. Yeah. I can't recall a time that I haven't seen eczema on my son. And his eczema literally disappeared. Wow. Literally disappeared. I mean, I shocked. Yeah. I mean, I told my husband, there this has got to be too good to be true. Right. I mean, there's no, this isn't gonna last. There's no way this is gonna work. You're waiting for the other shoe to drop. Waiting for the shoe to drop because it always did. Yeah. Just like with the move, what was it? The Luvio? Yes, because the itching had stopped. And I was like, oh, praise God stopped. Right. Um, but I was just waiting for that shoe to drop, and the shoe didn't drop. Yeah. Every single day, I was just like, wow, the sun looks amazing. Yeah. Not to have to lather him up all the time anymore. Yeah. Not to have to like constantly yell at him. Just I mean, it didn't just clear up his eczema, he's not scratching anymore. He just looks good. Yeah. He's just normal. Yeah. It's just weird. Yeah. It was so bizarre to me. And then a little bit of guilt starts setting in because you're feeling as a mom, you know, gosh, maybe I should have pushed a little bit harder, or maybe I should have been a little bit more accepting of this. Or you just kind of have like you play everything back in your mind. Yeah. And the journey that I walked for 12 years was so exhausting and painful. And not just for us, but terrible for him. Yeah. You know, and you don't want to see your kids suffer. I just am so thankful that you were so diligent in explaining. Yeah. Also, you monitor his blood work so closely. Yeah. He's constantly getting his labs drawn. I mean, more than most people because we have a weird schedule with our move and stuff. But um, when I get a call from the lab or from your office saying, Oh, his labs are good, it just makes me feel so much joy. Yeah. That he's so healthy. Yeah. And we're doing the right thing. And, you know, you did tell me with this medication that it's as fast as it works, yeah, it will stop. Yes. Just as it gets out of the street, wrap it on, wrap it off. Yeah. And I will say with this medication, I have noticed you do need to take it at the same time every single day.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

To get the most kind of consistent.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

Because there, if there is a longer than 24-hour gap, you'll start seeing the eczema coming back pretty quick. Yeah. And that's when I thought the shoe was dropping because we went like a 36. I mean, you forget. Yeah. Right. It's not. Especially when things are going well. Right. Right. You just get so comfortable. Yes. And you're not, you've never been in a routine to constantly take medication every day. Yeah. Um, when the eczema flared up, I really started freaking out.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:00

But then, you know, I called the office and she's like, okay, make sure you're taking it at the same time and we'll see you in a week or so. I had an appointment coming up. So I thought, okay, we're gonna get back on track.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

And so every morning when the kids are getting ready for school and I make them breakfast, I'd make sure I have that pill sitting right there for him on his breakfast plate.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:18

Um, and then it went away. Yeah. And everything is just super consistent now. Yeah. And as a mom, I also appreciate that too. I appreciate that the reassurance that the medication leaves so quick. Right. It is nice. If something bad happens, it's out very quickly. Yeah. I do like that. Yeah. That made me feel really good too. And it made it less because I'm not going to say that I don't get nervous thinking about the side effects because it's always back in my brain, you know. But watching what I watched with, you know, how fast it started moving out and how the expo is coming back, I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

All right. I think you said something just a little bit earlier about how the guilt of like, should I have been open to this earlier? And I think a lot of parents deal with that. And I think that's normal and totally reasonable. But I also think I I don't think people should feel guilty about that because I feel like you need to be at a point where you're ready. I feel like as I'm talking to patients, I can tell who's ready for something like a pill or a shot. And I can tell who isn't. And that's okay with me because I know if a little time passes, that seed that I've planted, talking about all of those options, will continue to grow.

SPEAKER_04 42:39

And that's where I think you differ from a lot of other physicians. Yeah. Because those seeds were never planted. Right. We were never given those options. Yeah. Had I have known those options existed years ago, I probably wouldn't have tortured my son this long.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

And another thing that really worries me going forward, and I'm thankful because you've already caught us, is that we are going to be moving soon. Right. And we're moving somewhere a little bit more rural. And I got really nervous. I was excited when you said, Oh, I know somebody there. Yeah, one of my best friends. That's amazing. So that was great. But then you said, because not everybody prescribes this medication for treatment. And that got me thinking and a getting a little bit frustrated. Yeah. Because that's not fair. Right. It's not fair. Yeah. And that's why I, when you mentioned this podcast and stuff, I was like, you know, at first I was kind of like, oh, I don't know if I can, you know, yeah. But then I I thought about it not after our last appointment, when you had said to me, not a lot of physicians like to prescribe this medication. And I was like, oh, I need to go do her podcast then. Because it's not right. I know. You know, there is a medication out there that can help a family. You're yes, you're helping, you're helping a patient. Yeah. You are when you are treating eczema, especially in children, yeah. When you are prescribing something that is successfully been working for other patients, yeah. Are you helping an entire family? Right. It's not just the child because the parents struggle.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

It's it's so funny. I'm laughing over here because I say the same thing when I'm giving talks about and the importance of treating eczema. I say treating eczema is an example of trickle-down health care. You help that one child feel better, live better, do better. You're helping the whole family unit to do the same. And there are a lot of dermatologists and dermatology clinicians that are nervous about the jack inhibitors, and even some that are nervous about the biologics, like DuPixent and Ebglis and Emelluvia, which are exceedingly safe. And when I'm talking at conferences, I encourage people to get comfortable with the safety warning. I think it's the safety warning on the jacks that makes a lot of people nervous.

SPEAKER_04 44:48

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

And I think A, it makes them nervous. I think B, I think they're worried honestly about being able to discuss it in clinic in an efficient but thorough manner. Because you want to tell patients about the safety warning. You want them to be aware of the pros and the cons of any treatment. And you also don't want to present the information in a way that's going to scare somebody away from a treatment that could truly change their life. And a lot of times when I'm speaking, I tell people that the safety warning on the jack inhibitors, especially now that we have longer-term data in our eczema patients with our eczema jack inhibitors. The more I think that this warning is kind of like a big Bernie doodle, like a big 150-pound Bernie Doodle that you see from a distance and it's jumping and barking and pulling on its owner's leash, and it's kind of scary. And then you get up close to the Bernie Doodle and you pet the Bernie Doodle and you cuddle the Bernie Doodle and you kiss the Bernie Doodle and you realize this isn't scary. It just looks scary from far away.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

Well, and that's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. And you know, even for me, you know, my son had a very scary health um episode last March. And I was extremely nervous to start this medication because I worried about his immune system. We talked about all of, you know, the things that could go wrong with the Jack inhibitors and how it kind of suppresses the immune system. And Eli wasn't completely out of the woods until the one-year mark from this medical uh episode that pertained to seizures and norovirus. So I really had to think about it because I was really nervous about it. Yeah. And, you know, you sent us home with a trial. My husband and I talked about it. I would just say go for it. Go for it. Eli has been thriving on Renvogue. He has actually not gotten sick again. His immune system is perfectly fine. Like I said, we we eat pretty clean. We he he's nourished. In fact, his sisters have been more sick than he has. And so I, it's really scary from someone who dealt with, and it wasn't just mild eczema. We dealt with extreme eczema with the itching. Had this been available or the option given to us maybe five years ago, I wish I would have known about it. Now I still worry. I'm not gonna not admit, you know, Eli is a young kid, a young teenager. Yeah, I don't think it's something that's sustainable for the rest of his life. I'm not sure. We're walking the journey. We'll have to see how it goes. I have been contacted by um Rinvog. And, you know, because they they're pretty good about, you know, speaking with I believe that the um pharmacy that you use to prescribe it reports our information. So I've been called by them a few times. Yeah. Um, because they like to keep track and see how kids are doing. Yeah. You know, and there have been some conversations about, you know, older men on Rinvoge, which I'm a little bit nervous about, you know.

SPEAKER_03 47:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:49

We don't have to deal with that right now. Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see how Rinvog sports him as he continues to grow. Yeah. And, you know, become a young man and maybe he'll grow out of it. I don't know. Or maybe something else will come along that will be able to help him. I'm just not sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

And I think we're learning, especially with like DuPegs and which is approved down to the age of six months old, often the early introduction of that, you can actually encourage kids to outgrow it. Maybe we'll notice the same with the jack inhibitors. We just simply don't know yet.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Well, right, right. Yeah, exactly. And that's that's something that, you know, we just haven't had any negative side effects from this. And I feel like Eli, because he was premature, nothing ever worked for us. Right. And we always experienced side effects from everything that we tried. Yes. You know, and I'm kind of the same way too. And when I take medication, I have to be really careful because I always fall in that wonky category. Me too. And, you know, it's it's it's can be extremely frustrating when everyone else is out here living their best life, a medication or, you know, a cream, yeah, and you're over here suffering because you just can't find one that works for you. Yeah. And for us personally, Rinvoke seemed scary. Yeah. But, you know, we gave it a go and we have had nothing but amazing results on it.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

Eli, how do you feel about Rinvoke?

SPEAKER_01 49:14

I think it's good and it's helped a lot. Oh, good. It's been really helpful and good.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

What's your favorite part about it, about being on Rinvoke?

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Um, it making me not like itch and have red spots all over my arms.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

Like Yeah. Is there anything that you do now that you wouldn't do before when you had more eczema?

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Probably wearing more like short shirts and swimming more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Yeah, even his arms were the worst, always in the crack of the elbows here was always a big and we used to get the cover-ups when he'd go swimming and stuff. Yeah. And now I don't think we need to even worry about that. And you know, you were really good too because we did excessively use the steroid creams. We bleached out his skin or dyed his skin, however. And you were pretty reassuring about oh, that everything's gonna go back to normal. And it did. Yeah, it really did. And I don't know, to me, I don't know, Eli, for you, if you just feel free now. What do you think about our nighttime routines now? Like you're free. I feel like you have freedom now. Yeah, you you're free to do your own thing now, right? Yeah, yeah, it was really strange because we've been on Renvoke, what, three months now? Yeah, we started it in January.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Or no, we started it in December. It was your Christmas present. We did it.

SPEAKER_04 50:29

That's right. So four months.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:34

It doesn't even feel like that long, but I remember like after the first 30 days or something, everything was going so good. Yeah, we just went in the bathroom. We have so much more space under our cabinets. Yeah. Like we threw away everything, every lotion, every uh b. I mean, it it felt it was a little painful because I'm sure that was a lot of money in the trash can. But I mean, we just threw everything away.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

It feels freeing. It is. And even in his I I wrote down what you said to me when I saw you back a month after starting Revoke. Do you remember? I wrote down and said, How are you doing, Eli? And you said, I haven't itched for a month. Isn't that pretty cool?

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Yeah. How did you learn to take the pills?

SPEAKER_01 51:20

This the spoon with the pill on it, and then applesauce over it.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

Applesauce.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

It is a pretty big pill for little kids.

SPEAKER_04 51:27

But I mean he he did really well. I loved it. Really well. What's the worst part about being on Rinvoge? Because there is a part you don't like.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Oh, oh. Getting your blood drawn.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

Yeah. Yeah. How do you get through that?

SPEAKER_04 51:46

Lots of surprises. Lots of bribery.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

I think that's okay. A little bribery, get your blood drawn.

SPEAKER_04 51:55

And honestly, you know, I think it's the best part about being on Rinvoke is getting those labs done and then getting a call that everything's a rock star and everything's great. Yeah. Because your body's responding to it appropriately. Yeah. And it's not causing any issues internally. Yeah. And you're externally you're thriving. Yeah. You know? And so I actually appreciate the blood jaws. Yeah. I think they're important. Yeah. And they're extremely reassuring to me.

SPEAKER_03 52:23

100%.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:24

And I think it's great that that the protocol for being on the medication is such because it it provides a lot of relief and it makes it less scary. Yes. Like things are being monitored. Things are being closely monitored.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

He's being watched over. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Eli, in our closing moments, what would you tell another 13-year-old out there that's been struggling with eczema their whole life?

SPEAKER_01 52:50

Um probably just like don't lose hope or something. Or like. Don't do what?

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Don't lose hope or oh, I love that. I love that. Um, and mom, what would you tell parents?

SPEAKER_04 53:04

Honestly, I just got so lucky that our paths crossed because I have seen several allergists and dermatologists, pediatric, all pediatric, and I was never given these options. Just keep advocating for your kid and for yourself. Yeah. For your own sanity. Yeah. Because if your journey is anything like what our journey was, or even if it's not as extreme, it's still exhausting.

SPEAKER_03 53:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:28

There are medications that can help. And, you know, I understand the barriers that you you create inside of yourself as a mom. Medicine can be scary. You know, you don't want to spend your life on a medication. You just want to do what's best for you. But medicine is also necessary sometimes. Yeah. You know, and um it changed our lives. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm extremely grateful to the fact that you introduced all of this to us and your patience with us through it. Yeah. Because like I said, we went from the bottom all the way up. And I wouldn't say like Renvoke is the top. No. It was just the top for us. Yeah, of course. But you allowed us to kind of walk the journey the way we wanted to walk it, which I appreciate. And you're extremely flexible with our concerns.

SPEAKER_03 54:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:17

And that is seriously lacking. Yeah. Especially with pediatrics. Yeah. You have to be able to be open-minded so that kids can thrive. Yes. Eli was distracted in school. I mean, his teachers were noticing the itching.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:34

And it wasn't doing him any service. Yeah. And I'm just sad that it took this long for someone to kind of like start introducing something that wasn't topical. Yeah. Yeah. Um, because clearly this wasn't a topical issue for Eli. Right. We needed to get inside. Yes. Treat something with the jack inhibitors. Yes. I'm nervous like going forward now because we're we're moving. Thankfully we're settling. Yeah. You've already kindly, you know, you know, you'll be well taken care of. Introduced us to someone. But I also appreciate um the warning that you gave me. Yeah. Because that will help me going forward. If we do have to move again, I can fight and advocate for Eli. Yeah. Because we're on this journey. Yeah. And we're not going to stop this because it works for Eli.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

And I think that's a big reason why I started the podcast. I wanted to be a force for good in a world of disinformation. And I wanted their families to be educated about the choices that exist so that they can go into appointments. And if some of these things aren't offered, they can bring it up and advocate for themselves, advocate for their family and be knowledgeable, go into the visit knowledgeable about the options and things that are out there. And I love having these episodes with my patients because I think each patient is an example of a success story on one of these medicines. And hopefully that's reassuring to folks who are a little bit nervous, which is rightly so. Of course. But I'm hoping that people go into their appointments feeling like they know someone that took this medicine and is thriving as a result. Especially when you've tried everything. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

When you have tried everything, there's always something out there. Yes. And like I said, you start to lose hope. Yes. And for, I mean, and that's why Eli said, don't lose hope. Don't lose hope. Because he we found hope. But it it needs to be talked about more, I think. Yeah. Eczema is a big deal. It's a big deal. A lot of kids are getting it. It wasn't a big deal when I was a kid. I don't know what the issue is. I don't know what the problem is, but it needs to be studied. But the medications that are working right now need to be made available and they need to be talked about so that people can make a choice. And I just really appreciate the fact that I didn't feel like you were trying to sell me something because some drug rep brought you a big supply of medication. No. You you really take the time to understand the studies. And I think from my perspective, that's what made me feel more comfortable. Because you didn't just talk about a group of 50-year-old men that took this pill or women or, you know, humans that took this medication and here was what happened. Yeah. You were really able to break it down by age and the success at every age. The conversations are always really good and reassuring, you know. Yeah. So I just really, really appreciate that because again, it's not super common. Right. So I do appreciate you taking the time to do that. And you know, I think that this podcast um is a great tool. Yeah. And I would hope that your colleagues and other physicians, you know, not just dermatologists, but there are so many areas that, you know, we need to start being more open. Yes. About, you know, having appropriate conversations when it comes to medications and the trial studies. Yeah. And really focusing in on that and leaning in on that so that parents can, you know, make the decision that's best for them. And I'm just really thankful because you just made it so easy for us to lean into that. Yeah. Made it a little bit less scary. Yeah. And then the follow-up that and the due diligence that you do in your office does with making sure that Eli is getting his labs drawn before we see you so we can have appropriate conversations. Yeah. It's just been so it's it's been an easy journey to walk. I love it. With Ren Boak. And so we're very thankful. I am very thankful. My son looks amazing.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

So thanks, guys. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:38

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

Thank you so much for taking the time to be here today. Is there anything else you guys want to say in the closing moments?

unknown 58:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

No, that doesn't surprise me, anyway. I know. You're like, I'm I need to get to my movie.

SPEAKER_04 58:52

Yeah, I don't know. It's funny with kids, but yeah. No.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

Um, well, to our audience, just remember advocate for yourself and your family. Go into the appointment knowledgeable. Listen to Skin Credible. It's a good place to get some some credible information and don't lose hope. Thank you guys for listening. Please tune in to future episodes of Skin Credible. Thank you.