Ramblestream Podcast

Utility, Rarity, And Status In The Things We Buy

• Janus Motorcycles

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A five-franc coin that can’t buy anything anymore still feels hard to throw away, and that tiny contradiction opens the door to a much bigger question: what do we mean when we say something is “worth it”? We start with an Altoids tin full of old change and end up in the deep water of motorcycle value, where price, performance, and personal meaning rarely line up neatly. 

We break value into three big forces that show up in everything riders buy: utility, rarity, and prestige. Utility is the obvious one, but it’s also the most personal, because what you need from a helmet, a pair of boots, or a bike depends on how you actually use it. Rarity gets more interesting in a mass-produced world, where small-batch craft, visible human skill, and a real story can matter as much as specs. Then we wrestle with prestige, from luxury fashion to Rolex, and talk about when brand status is empty marketing versus when it’s supported by history, control, and real quality. 

That framework leads straight to a question we hear all the time about Janus Motorcycles: is a $13,000 bike with 14 horsepower too much? If horsepower is your only yardstick, maybe. If you ride for connection, beauty, craftsmanship, and an analog experience with minimal interference between you and the road, the answer changes fast. We make the case for motorcycles built to be felt, not just measured, and why “the best” is often the wrong target compared to “the right.” 

Subscribe wherever you listen, share this with a fellow rider, and leave a rating or review so more ramblers can find us.

From livestream #121 - 03/16/26

Welcome To The Ramble Stream

SPEAKER_01

Hello everyone, welcome to the Ramble Stream Podcast. I'm Richard. And I'm Jansen. Each week we sit down for rambling conversations about motorcycles, the experience of riding, design, and whatever else catches our fancy. Bring a beverage of your choice or stories, and we'll see where this takes us.

Meet The Hosts And The Chat

SPEAKER_02

If you're interested in thoughtful conversations, friendly and informative banter with fellow riders, and the latest dispatches from Janus Motorcycles headquarters, you're in the right place. Let's get started. Welcome to the Ramble Stream. If you're new, um we ask that you tell us a little bit about yourself. Uh type into the comments uh the format we use. Tell us where you're viewing from, what you ramble with. And by that we mean, do you ride a motorcycle? If you do, what kind of motorcycle is it? Do you drive a truck? If so, what kind of truck is it? If it's an electric truck, just don't bother. Um sorry. Um if it's a Janice, tell us what the model is and what the serial number is. Because it's special. Um and then last but not least, tell us what you're sipping on this evening. My name is Richard Worsham, co-founder and head of design here at Janice Motorcycles. I ramble with oh, I'm broadcasting from the Ramble studio in downtown Goshen, Indiana, several feet from where motorcycles are be are made and repaired and sold and all that good stuff. And I ramble with a 2009 Kaosaki KLR, which has been getting some riding down on the road lately.

SPEAKER_00

Good.

SPEAKER_02

And a 2017 Halcyon 250 number 68. And this evening I am sipping on some uh green tea. Oolong tea to be precise. Ooh long. And this is gonna be this is gonna knock my socks off because I let it steep for way too long.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, let's uh let's get a oh that's too strong. It's too much, too much, too much. My name is Jansen. I'm also coming to you live. He dumped it, he dumped it. He said, I don't want it. Uh coming to you live from the uh Ramble Stream studio here in Goshen, Indiana at Janice Motorcycle's global headquarters. Uh I ramble in a Ford Lightning, and no matter what Richard says, I'm allowed to ramble in whatever I want to ramble in, and a soon-to-be rambler on a Phoenix 450 number four. Very excited about that. I'm sipping on some Journeyman Distillery X, Janice Motorcycles, Ride or Die Rye Whiskey that we uh made in partnership with them. It is delicious, as I say every single episode. If I didn't like it, y'all, I wouldn't be drinking it still, just so you know. Oh, yeah, as Richard was saying, we've got a great show for you guys today. Um, we're gonna be talking about value. What is value? What's worth it to you may not be worth it to me, Richard. That's right. As he's stewing his tea. Um, up first, though, we have a uh we have to remind them of our phone number. Oh, yeah. Because we have have you memorized it? I haven't memorized it yet. Okay, we're gonna have to pull up the agenda. Um let's we should we should give it a try next time. Uh if you guys want to leave us a voice message that you guys can play or that we will play on the stream and answer whatever question is presented, uh, you can do that by calling 574-501-3830. That's 574-501-380-30.

SPEAKER_02

This is um a poem called A Wood by Richard Wilbur. Some would distinguish nothing here but oaks, proud heads conversant with the power and glory of heaven's rays or heaven's thunderstrokes, and adumbrators to the understory, where in their shade small trees of modest leanings contend for light, and are content with gleanings. And yet, here's dogwood, overshadowed, small, but not inclined to droop and count its losses, it cranes its way to sunlight after all, and signs the air of May with maltese crosses, and here's witches hazel that come that from underneath great vacant boughs will bloom in winter's teeth. Given a source of light so far away that nothing, short or tall, comes very near it, would it not take a proper fool to say that any tree has not the proper spirit? Air, water, earth, and fire are to be blended. But no one style, I think, is recommended.

Defining What Counts As A Thing

SPEAKER_01

I like that one. I was waiting for it. I like that one. What uh what is a thing, Richard?

SPEAKER_02

Oh what can we say?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like at some point we're gonna run out of um a thing, well we can always say it in different ways too.

SPEAKER_02

A thing tonight we're gonna be uh pushing the boundaries of what a thing is. Um we've talked about collecting and how collections are made instead of things usually. Wow. Um, but can a collection be a thing?

SPEAKER_01

Can a collection probably not. I don't think so. It feels like unless it's very small. A sum of things. Unless it can fit in an altoid.

SPEAKER_02

If that's the requirement. No, a thing is an object. I think I'm I'm pretty sure it has to be a physical object that you can hold. And we've kind of gone back and forth between whether it needs to be practical, but I think at least on some level it has to have a util a certain utility in it can't be something that is disposable.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, if it's disposable, you you don't have the the breadth of time to be able to spend with it that you can develop stories, connections. Um the kind of like it's it's almost like a thing is is it's like an object that's that's taken on a kind of soul, a kind of a personality that you connect with, and that you you're like, I'm not gonna, I'm not sure why, but I'm not gonna throw that away or treat that carelessly.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I always have a so you have a level of care for it. You you always sometimes there are moments where you're like, oh, I don't think I need you're like, I'm a hoarder.

Coins, Memory, And Personal Value

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Um so yeah, there's a thing. Um this evening, I I this is maybe again, I'm I've been stretching the limits of what a thing is, but um this is an Altoids matrix. Uh, do you want to pull up the thing camera? Um it's flipped, but still. Oh yeah, it is reversed. Um this is an Altoids box dating from the mid-90s, I believe. Um, when I was but a wee lab. Is this the thing? Yeah, this is the thing. No, is the box the thing? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_02

Um uh but in in keeping with our discussion here. Let me move my mic over a little bit. Our discussion of value, I thought, wouldn't it be funny to just actually have the it's a bunch of some small change. Um and I've got some fun ones in here because I did uh some of these you can't find anymore. Um well you can find British coins, but you can't find a five franc piece. Ooh. Because the French don't use francs anymore. Uh you can't find an Irish tuppence. Is that a is that the Guinness logo? It's a harp. Really cool. Um, I got a couple of Irish ones from when I was really young when we went over there.

SPEAKER_01

Um Mexican to me, these have to us, I would even argue, have no monetary value.

SPEAKER_02

Right. So the point is, the point being, here's a 10 centime piece from France, which is like less than a penny. Um anyway, the the the the point being that these are uh they they're they have value, right? They signify a value, but most of these are actually worthless because they've been replaced by the euro. Um but as a as a obviously that those Irish coins are pretty cool. Yeah, they're really cool. Um as an object, we can we can hold on to these things and and find some value in it. Yeah, um, I think what we're gonna do this evening is this is a really fun one here, actually. You pull that one back up again, sorry. This is from the Philippines. I got this when I was about I don't know, seven. I did I did not get to the Philippines, but somebody gave it to me. It's aluminum. It's stupid light and it feels fake. It feels like it doesn't feel like a real coin. Um what does it have on it? It has a like a fish. I don't know. What is it? Hold on. Yeah, it's a fish, like a catfish or something. Anyway, um we'll talk about this more this evening, but like the idea of how do we how do how how do we um ascribe value to things. Yeah. And this is just fine because it's a it it is a thing in the sense that I've held on to it for I don't know, 30 something years. Decades. Uh and I and and I still still still I still do add things to it. Uh-huh. If I find a really interesting coin, I'll I'll put it in.

Rambler’s Roundup Rally Announcement

SPEAKER_01

Pop it in there. So well, that's cool. It I think it also like speaks to the the the the topic of value and uh right. That's why I did it. I was like, uh money, sure. Money, money has value, but who gives it its value and why is it valuable? Uh-huh. You you tell me. It's just a construct, man. It's just a number on a screen, dude. If you guys have known Janice for any length of time, uh, you'll know that we host an annual owner's rally. Richard, do you have any news for us? I do.

SPEAKER_02

Um, we have just um put the owner's rally tickets on the website where the dates are the 17th through the 20th of September. And tickets are now available. It's we've we're going through a big um or rebranding the owner's rally. It's called the Rambler's Roundup. Rambler's Roundup. And it's sort of got a cowboy theme. And so uh some of the things that are a little different about we are trying to get more people to sh to to be able to attend. And so we have we have a tiered ticketing system. So I think that the most the get me there ticket is like 25 bucks. Yeah. And that will get you here, it'll get you to a fun number of events at the rally. Like what, Richard? Um I don't know. I don't mean I'm not sure what give me the vision. I mean we've got some rides, we've got uh a part party, we've got music. Um let's see. We've got I mean, it's it's the full uh smorgas board of all the different activities. There'll be a live ramble stream there. There will be a live ramble stream. Um party, you know, we go, yeah, we have a mutant live music party. We have an open uh fair with lots of vendors coming. Um really great stuff. On top of that, you can then add other things like meals, breakfasts, lunches, dinners, um uh uh seminars, an additional thing is that and and so that you can basically kind of like tailor the rally to your to what your what you want to do that weekend.

SPEAKER_01

There are options for everyone. Yep. Uh and of course, we've got like the VIP option. It's like give me everything. And that the the price on that is 240 bucks.

SPEAKER_02

So around the same price as what we've used to do for VIP tickets. Yeah. Um, we highly encourage you all to come to this. The owner's rally is the high point of our year, and it's where we get to see all of you all in one place. Um, and it's where you all get to come here, get tours, get to meet everyone in the shop. Um, it's it really is a great experience. And what we're our goal is is to get more Janice owners. Yeah. So that's kind of the mentality behind the tiered ticketing, right? Is to if you're if you're oh, I gotta, I gotta pay to get there and then get a hotel and all that stuff. Hey, this is a way for us to try. We still have to pay to get here, but we can't pay for that. But right, we're gonna try and make it as affordable as possible for you to attend. It's super cool. Um, super excited. I uh love the rally. All the pricing is designed for that to for your ticket to make sense.

Discovery Days Updates And Code

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but we're we're really looking forward to uh this year's roundup uh and we hope to see you there. I'm gonna see old school. That's awesome. Old school will be there. Um again, we've got uh ride or die, the uh the bourbon or the whiskey that uh we did a partnership with uh for the first ever ride or die motorcycle show. Um they have this this whiskey for sale. It is one of my favorites. Um, I don't know, it sounds like I'm just chilling, but I I I swear. I promise. Uh and then the last one. You want to talk about discovery days at all, Richard?

SPEAKER_02

I do. So we're gonna be changing up lots of formats, but one of the one things we're changing up is the Discovery Day format. And the Discovery Days we're only gonna be doing quarterly. Um, the first one is coming up here at the end of this month. It's March 28th. Um, and we do those quarterly, so for a year, uh, well, I guess it's quarterly. Maybe we're gonna try and pack them into the riding, roughly riding season. Um, and the discovery day is a time when you all can come to the shop on a Saturday morning, get breakfast, light refreshments, coffee, uh, get a full tour of the shop, um, chit-chat with a team, and then do test rides, and then we and then we'll prepare a lunch. Um yeah, but one of the things we're changing is that if you're a Janus owner and you've already been to Discovery Day, come on. You can come for come for free. Come for free. We want you to be here and help us talk to customers, and you'll get a t-shirt. Um they have to use a special code though, right? They do. Um, and like what is that code? Is Disco Day. Disco Day. So if you're a Janus owner um and you feel like you want to come down and hang out with the Janus crew and talk to some people that are thinking about being a Janus owner, please um feel free to do so. We look forward to seeing you and toss your t-shirt size when you sign up.

Helmet Prices And Value Questions

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Again, that code is disco day, D-I-S-C-O day. No spaces, all caps. Just like our giveaways. Which we're not doing. Well, which we're not doing. Eventually, we might do. I can't even speak to it. I don't know. Uh, we may do a giveaway for some rally tickets again uh in the future, but that's not going to happen today. So what makes what's the difference between a the value of uh say you have a$500 helmet? I'm trying to segue us, Richard.

SPEAKER_02

I gotcha. Um that's how I was taking my watch.

SPEAKER_01

Um I'm trying to segue us into our topic. You've got a$500 helmet, and if another rider steals it, that's a$500 helmet. I mean, provided it's in like good shape. And if a pedestrian who doesn't ride motorcycles steals your helmet, what is it worth it? What is it worth to them? Is it still valuable?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, it depends on how you look at it. Like if you're just looking at it, it's like, oh, I just saw I was on uh Revzul yesterday. I don't ride a motorcycle, but I saw this one with 600 bucks. I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna take it. And then I guess if you try and sell it on, you know, eBay, maybe it is. There's some value. There's some value there. Um but yeah, I think I get the point you're trying to make, which is that it's really only valuable. If you're buying the thing because you want the function, the the the value is in what it can do for you, right? Then if you can't, if you don't ride a motorcycle, a helmet wouldn't be valuable to you. Right. Um if only the world was so simple.

SPEAKER_01

If only so we like to when we're talking about big ideas like this, we've come up with a uh oh my gosh, I almost said framework, Richard. That makes me want to yak. Why we've come up, we've come up with a framework to really describe what we're talking about. That feels so yakky. Uh we like and yet you talk about intentionality. I know, man. I know, I know. So we've we've come up with this system, I guess, where it's like we want to talk about what it is and then how it fits in with Janice. I love it. I love that. Um framing. So what is what is value? How do we ascribe value, Richard?

SPEAKER_02

Um well, in a rational sort of world, a thing an object which yields some sort of like return to you, whether that's in um function. So I'll notice it on how that's actually a really good example. It's like it's a thing that protects your head, it's a thing that makes a statement, yeah, it's a thing that um there's a lot of different different ranges of features and cost. Uh it's a pretty good example of a of a something that's fairly practical, though. Yeah. I mean, there are examples, however, so like built well, I don't have my built well, but a built well is when we sell built wells, they're like I don't know how much they cost? 200 bucks now? They used to be like 125 bucks, but like 200 bucks gets you a very good looking, simple, it's kind of like a Janus, like a simple helmet, um, but they're made in, you know, wherever, um, mass-produced. Old school said$5 helmet for$50. Yeah. That's like well, that's that's an old, an old argument, which is I mean, how much do you value it? Uh, but then there are brand like brands like um they're used to it. There was a brand called uh um Ruby. They were made in Paris. Okay, and they were like twelve hundred dollars. But it was basically a built well with like some nicer material. It was skinned, it was skinned and and it was pretending to be something. And now there's a company, um Um Heedon, which we also sell, which are like$900 helmets. Um and they're really more I mean, they do some really cool stuff. I so we have a couple here. We do.

SPEAKER_01

Unfortunately, they're too small for my head. I've been able to wear some. Did you like it? I love them.

SPEAKER_02

Really?

SPEAKER_01

They're light, they're really light. The breathability, so I the one that we have, we've got two, the full face that we have. I I think it's leather or some kind of leather on the interior. It's not very breathable. Yeah, so it's like a built well. So right, it's breathable, or it's uh it's like a built well, but with leather. Um, so that's my only gripe, but they're really light and they look really good. They look really good.

SPEAKER_02

But then, so that's one, that's like maybe even more like a halcyon. Yeah, it's like really nice materials made in smaller batches, hand painted. Oftentimes you can get them like custom gold leafed. Yeah. Um uh, but very limited, featureless. And then you have like an awry, which is now like the best advertisement for a Rye is the Isle of Man TT.

unknown

Yeah.

Utility And The Boots Example

SPEAKER_02

Look at what everybody's I mean, they're they're not, it's not a hundred percent awry, uh-huh, but it's like really close. If you if you can even like slow it down for to read the little helmet they're with no, I mean seriously, like a RIs are renowned for the amount of technology they put into their helmets to be the safest helmets they they won't do um um internal mechanisms for the visor because they believe that it reduces the safety of the helmet. So they always have these external um visor mechanisms. Interesting. Anyway, I don't want to get too much on helmets with this value concept, but it's a good example. Yep. And then, of course, that makes sense, right? Right. We we're getting different kinds of value. And then there's always the job of the marketers, which on some level we are. Right. Right. I mean, even though the Ramble stream is mostly about us just shooting the breeze, right? We are working at Janus Motorcycles. Right. Um, but so we have to kind of keep that in mind. But marketing is has been described sort of at least over the last hundred years, as it presenting the the the um illusion that something is a rare or right that it is desirable, or that it's gonna make you it will change you once once it's improves if you just get this thing for twenty nine like like our little ad, right? Which is like, you know, twenty nine ninety nine or whatever it's twenty five bucks and You won't you won't get rid of Helmut Goblins. Um so when we were thinking about this, like the first half of the what is it? And then what is how does it fit? Like what what is value? There's that utility idea. Like does it deliver the does it do the things that I want it to do, right? That I'm paying money for, like a pair of boots, right? Like another great example. Do the will they hold up? Do they do the thing I want them to do? Okay, I'll pay you$200.

SPEAKER_01

And there are like different tiers to this thing, right? So like if for for me, who I'll I'll I'll I need boots like steel toed work boots, my maybe like five, six times a year. Um, and I don't even need them, need them. I'm gonna go to shoot Walmart and I'm gonna buy like a the medium priced pair of boots at Walmart so that I can get by four or five times a year wearing these boots. But if you're like working in construction on a regular basis and uh you wear these boots every single day, you were gonna go to a Red Wing store and you're going to buy the most expensive boots you have, they have because they have the most comfort, the most technology, the most protection. Right? Like there are different layers to utility as well that I think is very curious. Um, that makes a lot of sense, though, right? It's based on usability. I think everyone's utility is different.

SPEAKER_02

Well, there's yeah, yeah, absolutely. That reminds me of the boots theory of economics. Have you ever heard of that? The boots theory of economics is that it's actually cheaper. Like there's an advantage to having more money, which I mean a lot of people would agree with. The advantage being that you can afford a good pair of boots so that you don't have to keep buying more. Interesting. Yeah. And so that there's an advantage.

SPEAKER_01

Richard, I think I've got a I can pierce through the veil on that one if we want to squirrel it just for a second. Yeah, we got it. I bought a pair of work boots at Walmart back in 2015 for$35. I just retired them last year. That's great. And they probably to me, you're like, you just don't use them a lot. So I bought these because I worked at uh a soccer field doing all of their field maintenance, and I was sick and tired of dropping five-gallon buckets on my toes full of uh like paint and water. So I bought these to use them, actually use them, and I used the crap out of them. They last me so long. Yeah, well, there you go. There's there are some there's some um pearls at Walmart. You just got look for them.

Rarity, Craft, And The Story

SPEAKER_02

So we have the basic utility. Yeah. Then we have what was the what else do we have? Rarity. Then you have rarity. Yeah. And I think that there, yeah, like maybe the reason that some of these coins are kind of cool is that they're not made anymore. Um the the the reason that a certain postage stamp is worth an exorbitant amount of money to the collector is that it was made in a very limited amount. Apply that to any kind of a race car that they're only made three of, right? A motorcycle that only so many were whatever, you know, like the uh rarity uh breeds desire.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And and um I I think that um I'm curious to hear your thoughts on like what it what makes something rare. Like I know the definition of rare is like it's it's scarce, right? There's not a lot of it, but I think there are things that are uncommon and then there are things that are like rare. And I think it goes beyond like actual quantity. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Well, in today's world, and I don't I'm not sure this is true uh 300 years ago, 200 years ago, 150 years ago, but at least in today's world, rarity puts something in a different category, and that category is not mass-produced. So basically everything that we encounter and engage with in the modern world, like 20th century and on world, is mass-produced. Yeah. Think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Almost almost everything. And so it's very um, it's very rare that we encounter something that's made in very limited quantity, whether it's a piece of crockery, a vase, uh, some kind of handmade potteries, goods, a work of art, um handmade motorcycle. Yeah. Uh or any the reason that these things are valuable is that or that we place value in them, is that it's more than just the fact that there are only five of them, which certainly has its appeal, right? But it's that there's some sort of story around it. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's more than the number. Yeah, there's like a skill involved in the the craft of that thing. Um, so like we've talked about potters, we've talked about um artists, we've talked about um custom motorcycles or limited production vehicles.

SPEAKER_01

You you had a uh a good example uh of the blacksmith from Toledo. Yep. Oh yeah, sword maker.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Who's making you a sword just for you? You know, and and yeah, that was a good example because he's like it could because you you go to this guy to have your sword made to kill the man with six fingers because his he is the son of the son of the son of a bladesmith. Right.

SPEAKER_01

And he makes one and it's perfect. Uh so you're getting not only the amount of craftsmanship from the person who is making your sword, but you're getting uh his grandfather's knowledge and skill. And then that guy's dad, right, and that guy's dad, and that guy's dad.

SPEAKER_02

And typically, when an individual with that much skill is working, they're not mass producing things. They're making they're they've reached a point where they're saying, I'd rather um just make one and put my effort into it and then try and charge for it. And so there, there you go. There's the value is like, okay, if you want my services, you can either have Billy Bob, who's you know, got a press down there, he's just putting out swords, stamping them out, or you can have me. And obviously that the idea would be that the skills that he's learned over you know generations would produce a uh superior far superior weapon.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, you're getting like it's gonna take longer. Right. You'd wait a year, there's gonna be more decisions, yep. You're gonna have to pay more. Yep.

SPEAKER_02

But look at the quality of the item. But also the the the fact that it's probably gonna have some sort of like things that identify you with it. Like when we you have an architect design a building, typically the design of that is not gonna be like just any old building. It's gonna have it's gonna talk, it's gonna speak to what you want in a building, right? Or what you need in a building. Um same thing with everything else. Um so we've talked about the kind of utility of of value. You talked about the rare how rarity comes into it.

Prestige, Brands, And Rolex Talk

SPEAKER_01

And then of course, there's the perception, right? Prestige, the perception of prestige, but the prestige. Or the status. Status that that that that thing can give you, so then it has value, like a Gucci belt. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. It's a great example, is is fashion. Yeah. Um, fashion sort of takes it you know, you if you were to make a gradient, I don't know, I don't know if I want to do this, but like pure utility is like in the world of the rational, you know, engineer's mind. Uh let's just say it has these these characteristics, these specifications, and this, this, this, that's what describes the value. Analytically, it makes sense. Exactly. And and and I think we would all we all understand the desire for that to make sense. Right. Um, however, it doesn't it if only it was that simple. You're telling me my Gucci belt isn't improving my life greatly. Well, not only that, I'm saying that likely most of these, you know, status symbol things are actually junk, made out of junk, and oftentimes mass-produced. Yeah. Um so, but yes, let's take let's let's take the argument seriously and give it the benefit of the doubt and say that there are um like a um uh Louis Vuitton luggage set.

SPEAKER_01

Listen, I want a Louis Vuitton duffel one day. Okay, you do?

SPEAKER_02

I want to, I want to, the coolest chopper I ever saw. Not the coolest chopper, but the coolest chopper seat I ever saw was a king and queen seat. And they made it out of the Louis Vuitton bag. I'm like, I can't I can't do that now because somebody else told it. But I would never have had the idea.

SPEAKER_01

That was really cool. That's awesome. Um anyway. Yeah, but I but I think there's like with Louis Vuitton, there's there's lineage, right?

SPEAKER_02

It speaks to the originally there's a reason why they were that is because multiple reasons, but one was that they were a family that knew how to make luggage, right? And they had this story that started in the 19th century, and and then they by positioning themselves well, have just this like all it has to do is say Louis Vuitton, and you can charge you know 50 times more than it's worth in reality. Right. Um, and so you that's kind of like that that that status prestige level. But I don't want to totally write off the prestige of certain things. Well, uh because I think there's a certain value.

SPEAKER_01

Well, tell tell me about what do you think about Rolex? I I just I I think they do it, they do they make a watch really well. They do make a watch. I've I've never held a Rolex, I've never even uh I maybe have seen a couple Rolexes in person. Yeah. Um probably more than you know, probably. Uh, but I know Rolex and I know who wears a Rolex. Right. Right. So there's that desire of a of an outcome. That's a really good example to talk about this. That I hope like I want to be able, it's not even about the watch at that point.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like I think it goes a little bit beyond the watch as far as like the prestige part of this, it goes beyond the item. The value goes beyond the actual thing. Why? Because it shows people apparently prestige, right? It shows people around you. It's like I've made it, I've done it, I've done the thing.

SPEAKER_02

I can spend$8,000 on this watch.

SPEAKER_01

I am successful. Whatever that's another thing that you get into, right?

SPEAKER_02

But well, the interesting thing about Rolex is that I think that they kind of back it up. I mean, they aren't a tiny brand. It's a very they make a lot of watches, yeah, but they are very unique. Um, they control every aspect of the way that they make them, right? Down to they're not sourcing anything. That's cool. They're they're quite secretive about how the organization is that's really organized. Um it's kind of neat, but they do have they, especially in recent years, they have taken on a sort of prestige status symbol that I think actually detracts from the brand a little bit. Do you think you have to be careful with that? Yeah, because people are all just like a Rolex, how predictable. Right. You know, like you're just like, oh, I'm gonna reflect my Rolex room. Don't worry, guys. And it does kind of like you have to, for me, I appreciate the the watch enough and what a Rolex is that I that wouldn't bother me if I had the money to buy a Rolex. I would still I could find an interesting one and and and and get into that. But it does sort of take a little bit of a jump, like, do I really want to be that guy? Right. Uh right. Um, whereas I'm like, oh no, an Omega. Right. It's Omega's nice. Um yes, yeah. So but but again, you're talking brand names, right? Talking brand names. But these are things, these are brands that one would hope, and and then I I believe, based on the what I understand about researching Rolex or or different brands, is that you're kind of getting what you're paying for. It's a pretty, pretty neat. There's a lot of history and there's a lot of reason behind why this is done the way that it's done. Whereas if you go to um some little micro brand like Laurier, I'm not wearing my Laurier, you you you I think it's a wonderful watch, but but there isn't it doesn't have that long history like the Toledo sword maker, right? Where it's like, oh, it's a beautiful watch and they've got they've nailed a whole bunch of different things, but they don't have that history. So I think in a perfect world, that prestige is when it has the lineage. And then there's a certain level of rarity because only so many people can afford to have a sword made by Diego, you know, whatever.

What Janus Value Really Is

SPEAKER_01

You killed my father, prepared to yeah. Okay, so that's what value is. So there are three ways that you can attribute it. But how does it relate? There might be more. Three three big umbrellas. These are the ones we kind of have talked about. Right. I I feel like we we've we've gathered it. Well, so how does it fit? I mean, is if you deck out a Halcyon 250, is it is 14 horsepower, is$13,000 too much for 14 horsepower?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I mean, what what was your answer?

SPEAKER_01

My answer is I feel like we should charge more.

SPEAKER_02

I think what your answer was is like, well, it just depends on what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Well, well, I know what I'm looking for. So my my whole my whole argument was like, well, it's it's it's to the eye of the beholder. Um meaning like it's very specific to uh what someone's intention is with a motorcycle.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but I mean, I mean this is how I would answer it. Yeah, is typically when we start questioning the value of something, it's when the value is like taken in this one extreme way, like this postage stamp that was worth you know five cents in 1922 and now is worth five million dollars because of something, whatever, whatever. I'm gonna give you an extreme example. Right. We're like, well, it's really not. It's like you're you're looking at one aspect of reality when you say that. To bring this home, a JS250 for 13, like so you just decked it out, right? Or or or you didn't. And and some people would say, Oh, is you know,$8,000 is way too much for something with 14 horsepower. My answer is go right back at them and say, you're valuing this thing on one level. It's literally one thing, horsepower. Yeah, horsepower is what you is defining everything. And I think what what where we can why there's so many people that enjoy their GNS is and and and Royal Infields and other bikes that are very, very low horsepower, old cars, Miattas, Miattas, MGs, um, is that it does it's actually answering a much larger question. And if you so if you're the kind of person who wants to pass everyone and be the fastest thing on the road and go through corners at you know 40 degree angles, right, then you should get a jacotti, a janitus, or or or some sort of like really high performance sport bike. A Janice is not what you want, right? Right?

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

But if you're like I would say many riders, if not most riders, there is a time, there is most of the time in place, is we want to just enjoy riding. Right. And and where do you do that? And where do I as we always say you're you want to find twisty roads and you want to enjoy yourself, enjoy that experience with a machine that has the minimum of interference between you and the riding experience. We ride motorcycles to ride, right? Not to have someone else ride for us. Right. There's nobody who's like, you know, yeah, that doesn't work. So I guess what the point I'm making is that the value that we're trying to find is a beautiful first it's you know beautiful. Obviously, it has a long tradition of craftsmanship, and there's a person that you can you know who did the paint, who did the machining, who did the assembly.

SPEAKER_01

Ryan has been here for how many years? Ryan and Kelly. Kelly does the pinstriping. Ryan is is uh, I don't know what his head of uh assembly was started out as like an assembly tech. Yeah, actually pinstriping building thousands has built has assembled thousands of motorcycles. Like Kelly has pinstriped thousands of motorcycles. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like that's that's they do each one one after the next very carefully. Um so we we have that level of like craftsmanship, sort of the Toledo sword making story. We have the limited you know, production. They're relatively rare. We can only build so many motorcycles. And in terms of the utility, that we we we strive to make a motorcycle that you can get the most out of in your everyday riding. And compare that price point with uh Harley Davidson. Compare that price point with many, many other bikes. Um that that's where I think we need to define the balance. Of course, you can find cheaper ones. You can find bikes that are just, but then you're you're you're comparing it with mass production. Right. And unfortunately, what comes along with mass production is a lot is a loss of the soul of the vehicle, the sort of like spirit that animates it and that you can find connection with. Right. Um, which you know, you can talk about it and like, oh, it's got its little quirks, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_01

But that's just an accident of this larger picture of the story and this experience that you're gonna find, I think, with with with any, it's not just a genus, but anything that's that that anything that feels value analog, anything that you can get like a like a direct, like talking about motorcycles and and cars in particular, anything that you can get a direct response from nowadays is like is is valued because everything else has been washed out. Like that feeling is rare.

unknown

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

The the direct feeling uh between you and the machine is is rare. Yep.

SPEAKER_02

Uh even on and being able to like there's no guardrails. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know? Right.

SPEAKER_02

Which is like that's dangerous, Richard. Right. But that but that but but that that is the direction that everything is sort of going, is sort of like, yeah, you can ride a motorcycle, but here's traction control and wheelie control.

SPEAKER_01

You got six different power modes, and yeah. And yeah. And so where what if we had to sum this up, we're a little after, but if you had to sum this up, where I'm putting you on the spot. Where what is Janice's true value? Janice's true value.

SPEAKER_02

Oh goodness. Um, I mean, at the risk of repeating myself, I think it's exactly what we've been talking about. It's it's it's finding a motorcycle that motorcycles better.

SPEAKER_01

We will see you next week, everybody. No, I think that sums it up well. Um it it's it's distilling the experience down. And we can talk about this until we're blue in the face because we truly believe it, you know.

SPEAKER_02

But I avoid that idea that beauty is in the eye of the beholder or well, I just like it because it's me. You know, like no, I think we can actually make rational arguments, rational decisions on what is good. Right. And unfortunately, most of the people making motorcycles and the people that talk about them are not being rational.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. The priority is not the end experience. The priority is not the user experience, oftentimes.

SPEAKER_02

We've gotten lost. Right. Yeah.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

That was a great, great show.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Jansen.

SPEAKER_01

Uh thank you, Richard. Wow, we've never thanked each other on on the show before. Uh, that has been today's episode. Thank you all so much for tuning in. Uh, if you guys would like to follow us outside of YouTube, Facebook, wherever you're watching this, we have uh uh rebroadcasting, if you will.

SPEAKER_02

Uh it kind of like makes it a little more condensed and a little bit more juicy. Yeah. Um find it wherever you can find your podcasts. It's called RambleStream Pod, right? Ramble Stream Podcast at RambleStream. Uh I'm sure if you just look up RambleStream on Spotify Apple Music, um find it. And we have a new set new phone number. If you want to call 574-501-3830 anytime, anytime during the week.

SPEAKER_01

Actually, night or day, because I won't answer it. Um, thank you all so much for watching. We'll see you next week for episode 122. That wraps up this episode of the Ramblestream Podcast.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the show, subscribe wherever you listen, share it with a fellow rambler, and please consider leaving a rating. And join us live every Monday at 7 p.m. on YouTube for our weekly Ramble Stream. You can also find us at ramblestreampod.com and on social at ramblestream. We'll be back next week with more conversations, more stories, and of course, more rambling. And remember, many of those who ramble may very well be lost, but that's probably the point.