Ramblestream Podcast

Power vs. Control: The Beginner Bike Debate

• Janus Motorcycles

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The fastest way to fall in love with motorcycles is also the simplest: get a bike that makes you want to ride tomorrow, not a bike that looks impressive in a garage. We start on a human note with a Wendell Berry poem read at a funeral, then shift into a surprisingly practical question riders ask every day: what is the best first motorcycle, really?

We talk through the advice you always hear about beginner motorcycles, small displacement, and “working your way up” to more horsepower. Then we challenge the hidden assumption behind it. Bigger is not automatically better, and a riding life is not a ladder from 125cc to a thousand. What matters is how often you ride, how honest you are about your self-control, and whether your bike matches your real needs. We share stories of riders who over-research, buy the wrong machine, and only discover the truth after a thousand miles of sore wrists or numb hands.

The biggest takeaway is blunt: do not buy a basket case as your first bike. A used motorcycle that “ran when parked” can quietly end your riding career before it starts. We explain why reliability is a safety feature, what to check first (tires, brakes, basic function), and how modern rider aids like ABS and traction control help, but cannot replace skill built through repetition and, ideally, time on dirt.

Subscribe wherever you listen, share this with a new rider, and leave a rating or review. What was your first motorcycle, and would you choose it again?

Welcome And Membership Pitch

SPEAKER_01

Hello everyone, welcome to the Ramble Stream Podcast. I'm Richard. And I'm Jansen. Each week we sit down for rambling conversations about motorcycles, the experience of riding, design, and whatever else catches our fancy. Bring a beverage of your choice or stories, and we'll see where this takes us.

SPEAKER_02

If you're interested in thoughtful conversations, friendly and informative banter with fellow riders, and the latest dispatches from Janus Motorcycles headquarters, you're in the right place. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_01

Figuring out what technology doesn't work. Right, exactly. That's a feature of the pre-ramble. And also some previews. We're just yeah, some previews into what's happening on the ramble stream tonight and uh what's happening at Janus as a whole.

SPEAKER_02

So if you guys would like to be a part of the Sometimes I'm unaware that it's being recorded and I say things that are totally not uh supposed to be aired.

SPEAKER_01

It's what you want, it's perfect. If you guys would like to be part of that, you can hit the join button down below for as little as two dollars a month. We're getting pretty good at this thing, Richard. Don't jinx it, Janssen. All right, Richard, you got a poem for us?

Wendell Berry Poem On Grief

SPEAKER_01

I do, I do.

SPEAKER_02

I'm I'm I'm excited about this one. It's it's not a long poem. Um not to be too uh macabre or lower the but I I went to I had a um funeral over the weekend and it was uh it was beautiful. Um it was a very sad uh uh friend of mine, actually, um younger than me. Um and uh but anyway, uh this was a poem that was read um this on Sunday after um by a good friend of mine. And um it uh really beautiful. Um this is by a poet that we have heard before here on the Ramble Stream, um, Wendell Berry. He's still alive, and uh he's a fantastic sort of traditional he bridges the gap between uh wide walks of life. People from both sides of the aisle appreciate him, I'll just say. And it's called The Wheel by Wendell Beery. At the first strokes of the fiddlebow, the dancers rise from their seats. The dance begins to shape itself in the crowd. As couples join and couples join couples, their movement together lightening their feet. They move in the ancient circle of the dance. The dance and the song call each other into being. Soon they are one, wrapped in a single rapture, so that even the night has its clarity, and time is the wheel that brings it round. In this rapture, the dead return. Sorrow is gone from them, they are light, they step into the steps of the living, and turn with them in the dance, in the sweet enclosure of the song, and timeless is the wheel that brings it round.

SPEAKER_01

I like that one. Good. I like that one.

What Makes A Great First Bike

SPEAKER_01

Uh, but now, Richard, what was your well we know about your you know what my first bike was. Your Vespa. But what was your first like four stroke?

SPEAKER_02

My first four stroke? Oh, it was a genus. Whoa. Was it really? Well, it depends on how you define. The first the first genus I ever had was 68. And obviously we've been making a lot of motorcycles before it never actually came into my hands. Right. Um, so it might be a KLR650.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I mean, four strokes were kind of an afterthought for me, yeah, to be honest. Yeah. Um uh two strokes were were and still are my first love. Um but uh the first bike that uh well that Vespa technically belongs to my mother. So it's not really mine. It's not yours. Um, I need to make sure that it's in tip top shape before I send it back. And it's gonna take some more testing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Some some more testing? Exactly. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02

Because I'm having a blast. Uh no. Um, the first bike I had was a Gorelli Super Sport LTD with a Polini 65cc kit and a SHA. What kind of carburetor did I have on that thing? I can't even remember what carburetor I had on it. It was a little dinky 12 or 15 millimeter carburetor. Yeah. Um yeah, it was a Delorto. Um but as to the question of what is the best beginner bike, there's a couple of ways. You know, the expected answer I think I would give is oh, you need to have a super lightweight, low displacement, well, it's handmade Janice motorcycle.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's crazy. You should halcyons and Griffin 250s, yeah. I would even say that the 450s make great first bikes.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean there's there's a a very good argument, and it's a logical one that I think a lot of people would agree with is that you should start off on a smaller displacement, lightweight bike that kind of eases you in. And you know what? It isn't wrong.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

There is I think a lot of you just know people jump on these giant bikes and they um you're jumping to something that is like well for a lot of people is is is a big jump. Um however, there's a there's an argument against that.

SPEAKER_01

I my first motorcycle, that was mine. 900? The Yamaha XSR 900. And was it terrible? It was terrifying. But did you were you okay? Yeah, it was fine. But I think exactly there was a level of uh respect that I had for the thing. Uh I've feel like I've told the story a couple times here, but uh my wife surprised me for my birthday uh after shortly after I started working here.

SPEAKER_02

Uh by the way, that's pretty cool. I mean, Danny has gotta have earned some major points for that. She's the best. That's an amazing gift. She's the best. Um especially when you have like you hear by these, and I apologize for if I'm insulting you unintentionally. These people are like, well, you know, I had my first kid, and then I put my bike away and my wife, you know, and it's like, and then I'm now getting back in and like right. It's like what?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Sorry, sorry. So she was asking me all these questions about, oh, like, I thought you should, that's just Danny. She's great. Again, she's interested in what I like. And she's just asking me questions about what motorcycle like, oh, if you had to get one, if I would, if I were to let you get one, uh, which one would you get? I'm like, oh, the XSR700.

SPEAKER_02

When you're buying a bike for the first time, most riders don't know what they want.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Right. Right. Right. Well, I I don't know if that's necessarily true. I think uh most riders don't don't don't know what they don't know. Like when you when you're first starting out, right? So the the thought is uh that hopefully you're doing some research and catching like figuring out what's good and what what you want. That's what I did. I just over-researched the crap out of like my first book.

SPEAKER_02

And in this modern day and the Amazon era, right? Over-researching is our skill set of the millennial.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. I'm technically Gen Z, but it's okay. Well, we we we we perfected it. Yeah. Um but yeah, like to your point, you don't know what you don't know. So you get on this, say you want to, you think that you like sports bike, sport bikes look cool. Um, and you you like that style of riding, whatever, and you get on it and you ride it, you buy one and you ride it for you know a thousand miles, and you're like, oh my gosh, my wrists are gonna fall off. They hurt so bad. Why did I buy this motorcycle?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think about the example is one I I heard about this guy who ended up buying a like same year it came out, KLR 650.

Expectations Versus Reality On Bikes

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, he got it for a steal, which it's a KLR, you always get them for a steal. Yeah, but the guy, the guy who who bought it had never ridden before, and his I he he wanted to ride a motorcycle across like long distance, like ADV riding is what he liked. Yeah, he like watched a bunch of YouTube videos, and the guy put probably more money in Farkel, you know what Farkel is, right? You know, all the accessories, sparkling, functional sparkle into the bike, like you know, seats and grips and uh you know, luggage and windscreens, and every you know, all the electronics. And then he rode it for like a thousand miles, and he just said that the vibration of the handlebars was like excruciating. Now, I don't know what the what this guy's talking about. It's a KLR, it's a bumper. I mean, what do you expect? Again, he didn't do his D but it's a classic example, and then he wanted it, he probably wanted an FJR or a concourse, or who knows what else what he wanted. A GS. Right. He wanted a different thing, and so he just it was a massive, in my opinion, waste of energy and resources. Yeah. To without like what he should have done is gotten like a thrashed KLR, not done anything to it, uh, and just putzed around town and figured out what it figured out what he what he wanted, what he liked, you know, and then by that point he would have fallen in love and then he wouldn't know, and his hands would have developed a resistance to vibration.

SPEAKER_01

Do you think that he went into it for this example? Do you think that he went into it with too high of expectations for what riding it would be like?

SPEAKER_02

I think he went into it with expectations that just didn't reflect reality. That's more like it. I mean, and maybe and so I would like to say that we transform this idea that a big bike, because this is like common parlance. Everybody will say everybody should start on a small bike. Yeah. And I agree. Let's get that out of the way. I agree. A small bike is a great way to start. But maybe even beyond that is to say to admit that is to assume that a high power bike is like that our trajectory of riding is just getting, oh, I'm gonna start with a 125, I'm gonna start with 50cc. And then by the time I end, it's gonna be 5,000 million CC. And I'm gonna be like, you know, those like memes where you like reach um it's the bell curve. No, but you know those memes where it's like oh you reach like mega the guy's brain's like exploding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. God's data.

SPEAKER_01

I'm riding a that's just totally ridiculous. Right. Like that shouldn't be the trajectory.

SPEAKER_02

That shouldn't be the goal to like the trajectory should be what do you ride more? That's like what fits you. And I I I always do this.

Sailboats And Riding What You Own

SPEAKER_02

I hate to bring you back into this, but like I let's bring it to let's talk about sailboats. Of course, sailboats perfectly illustrate this. So many people go out and they buy what they're uh they have this vision. Maybe they watch too many YouTube videos or they read too many books about you know long voyages or something like this, and then they're like, this is gonna be amazing. I'm gonna get the perfect boat. Or I've done all the research. I need this feature. It needs to have all these features, and it's gonna have blah blah blah. And they do all their research, they buy all the stuff, and then they realize that the the there are more resources that are required to make long voyages than money.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You can't just throw money at it and hope it works. There's time, which is probably the most what we all know is the most precious thing, and you don't have time to do this in the preparation and like it's just massive. What and then what you often end up, especially with boats, is realizing that the boat that you sail the most is the most valuable. Because you get the most enjoyment out of it. You get the most enjoyment, and then you you learn the most. You like I will still I will probably claim to my dying day that the best sailboat is a sunfish. What's a sunfish? Is like a little like flat scowl kind of boat that has a mast without any stays. You can sail, anybody can sail one. Uh-huh. They're kind of like the beginner sailboat. Okay. That you can buy them like really, really cheap on Facebook marketplace. Uh-huh. I've had more fun on a sunfish probably than any other time, like any other boat. Yeah. Like they're just amazing. And the best thing is like if it gets blown over, which they do often, you just like hop out and hang on the dagger board and it flips back over again.

SPEAKER_01

And that's a fun experience.

SPEAKER_02

And it's a fun experience, but you like you, I don't know. Yeah. It's really, really cool. So, anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that you want to get a motorcycle that you're going to ride

Why First Bikes Must Be Reliable

SPEAKER_02

a lot. And the other big red flag, and this is one that I will stick to, is that a lot of people say, I'm going to get a cheap basket case or a Facebook deal. Man, I can fix it. It doesn't run. Oh, ran when parked. Uh-huh. Carbs just need cleaned up. It's easy fix. I just don't have time to do it. Right. And so that is a problem.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Waiting for a new motorcycle rider.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And that's probably one of their main, I would bet you the main reason that somebody who takes their motorcycle endorsement class invests the money that it takes, gets the gear, doesn't get into motorcycling. Is that thing sits in their garage, doesn't get fixed, and they never go back to it.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And it and then they sell it to the next person.

SPEAKER_02

They sell it to the next person. And I if you're a motorcyclist and you know what you're doing and you buy a basket case, great. Fantastic. But don't buy a basket case as your first bike. What you want to buy for your first bike is a bike that you will ride and a bike that runs. That won't break. Well, well. Don't get one that doesn't ride well. Don't get one that has a problem. Don't get one that's not safe. I mean, seriously, like this is your first, this is the first time you're riding. Get one that has functional brakes, good tire. Don't, oh, it has the tires are bald. You might not know what you're doing or be invested enough to replace the tire. Right. Get a bike that's like ready to go. There are plenty of deals on Facebook Marketplace or wherever. Get a bike that's ready to roll. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And that's reliable and that won't break down on you. I think that's probably the best thing, even more so than power.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like, I hate to say this, but like just about anybody who's not a complete idiot can ride a thousandcc motorcycle. It might be a little bit counter counterintuitive or against what you'd expect me to say, but you'll you'll get used to it. You gotta be careful. Right. I mean, especially if it has a hundred horsepower or something like that. Like be very, very careful, but you will get used to it. It's probably just as dangerous to hop on a 125 if you've never ridden before as to hop on a thousandcc bike. There's some maybe some caveats there, but you can get in a lot of trouble on a 125 if you don't know how to ride a motorcycle. If you know how to ride a motorcycle, you can ride just about any motorcycle. Right. Really, I mean that. Like I've ridden a H2, like the one in that picture. Uh-huh. And it was actually really, really fun to ride and easy to ride. It did not like deliver power like uncontrollably. I've ridden some bikes that do that too. Well, the first and that's scary.

SPEAKER_01

The first XSR700 and 900s had like some crazy throttle issues.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and that's sketchy, but like I really mean that. Like you can get a big bike, that's fine, but get one that's reliable and get a bike that isn't a beast to get out of your garage, that you don't have to put a bunch of gear on. Like, don't go get a fit fast Ukati as your first bike. Like, just that's probably a bad idea. If you're an experienced rider, absolutely go for it. That's great. Um, so yeah, that's kind of my thoughts on it. I'd say, is there are there any comments in here? Chris Smith says, no.

SPEAKER_01

Uh a 125 is safer than a bigger bike.

SPEAKER_02

I well, I mean, there are there are absolute, I mean, I'm kind of playing devil's advocate when I say that. Right. Obviously, a smaller bike is safer.

SPEAKER_01

I think the capacity to get in more trouble, uh you you have the capacity to get in bigger trouble on a thousand cc motorcycle.

SPEAKER_02

Especially if you're 20 years old. Right.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And you think you're going to be able to get it. You're going to, you're going to have some big issues. You're going to, you're going to, that twist of the wrist that we talk about is going to get you in trouble. And on a two on a 125 or a 50cc, you can be, you can have a lack of control, self-control, and you're still not going to try it. Absolutely. I'm kind of playing a little bit of devil's advocate about it. Because I don't, I don't want to just say, go small.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Because that what I'm so torn because while I do think that, yes, if you're a mature rider, you can get like a fast bike.

SPEAKER_02

Um maybe I'm I'm I'm speaking to intelligent riders when I say that. Yeah. Intelligent people. Yeah. I think intelligent. But I probably wasn't intelligent when I was 20.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I I'm thinking about like I definitely wasn't. I you're gotten in a lot of trouble with that. Your prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed yet. Of course you shouldn't hop on a something with six to eight years at that point. 200 horsepower that's that weighs 300 pounds.

SPEAKER_02

Chris, Chris, I agree with you. I'm I'm I'm kind of I'm kind of on the next level here where it's like I I I I do think it's more important though. This qu because if you as soon as you start saying your first bike should be a little like a little wimpy bike, and then you know, you can graduate to the like chick bike, and then you then you've accepted the premise right that bigger, faster is better. Right. That's what I that's what I'm trying to reject by this. I I because I because it it's it's been illustrated to me time after time after time that older, more mature, more experienced riders with more bikes in their garage turn to DNS motorcycles for their next bike because they they that's that's the level up. Right. And some of it may be the the cost. Because these aren't they aren't the cheapest bikes for well, they are if if you're gauging it without that like small to big category, then they're very affordable compared to any most other things. Um so that's that's why I'm saying that. And but but I think probably like my my like secret unlock though, like that just is undeniable, is don't get a basket case, right? Don't get a an old motorcycle that's gonna take a lot of maintenance for your first bike. Absolutely get and become the custodian of that amazing thing when you're ready. Yeah. But those things take love and and and experience and and some knowledge and some wherewithal to maintain. Yeah. And I would hate to see a 1970s, you know, whatever CB750. Yeah, go to somebody who just is just getting interested in bikes and isn't really sure yet. Right. And then it just goes and it languishes. Right. Um, both for the rider, because they're not going to advance into ride motorcycling, and for the bike, because it's probably gonna get, you know, who knows? Yeah, left outside.

SPEAKER_01

So what I'm hearing from you, Richard, is that there are two requirements for your first motorcycle. Thanks for distilling this. The first thing is buy the motorcycle that you'll ride. Yes. The second thing is don't buy a basket. Yes. Those are those are the only two requirements. And I agree. I think those are like the two the two requirements that are necessary for your first bike.

SPEAKER_02

And then when you're looking as a new rider, let's say you don't trust your um level of self-control. Yeah. Don't go to big fast bike. Don't get a don't get a whole lot of horsepower.

SPEAKER_01

I would say that's true. I would say that if you know that you can't trust your self-control, you could probably get a faster motorcycle.

SPEAKER_02

If you actually know it. You actually know. Yeah, if you think you're gonna be perfectly safe on a big faster bike, don't stop.

SPEAKER_01

Don't do it. Don't buy it.

SPEAKER_02

But I but I think that that covers the basis for sure. And the other thing is like if you're someone who likes to tinker and you've never never been into bikes, go ahead and get that basket case.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but you yeah, you have to know what you have to know what you're signing up for, for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Know what you're signing up for. For sure. I like I like uh uh isn't racing the sunset unless it's an old BMW airhead. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah, those are those are sharply. We thought we were intelligent when we were 20. Yeah, everybody does. Everybody, and that's the best thing about it because you you overestimate your capabilities and then you put yourself in wild situations, or let's just say extravagant situations. And then you rise to then you either rise or don't to the occasion. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Um, let's go go back up. Let me see some of those comments. I was about to say I'm curious to see what other comments say. Um, so older riders need to get on vintage bikes, Richard. Where's yours? I'm not older. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01

I would say your KLR is vintage.

SPEAKER_02

Not the new one. It's oh nine isn't vintage yet. It's close. My old one was, but it was the same bike.

SPEAKER_01

It's uh copy paste. Uh Tech subtrable Tracy says, I'm a big believer in starting small and working your way up.

Rider Aids Dirt Skills And Power

SPEAKER_01

But with all the traction control, launch control, ABS, and riding modes on the rolling computers being sold today, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02

Unfortunately, it does. That's kind of true. And what what you do though is you skip the process. Yeah. Skip. And that's the bit, that is the beauty of starting on a small bike. And that's one thing is like if your trajectory is I know with the wisdom of the ages that my perfect motorcycle has 1200cc and delivers 120 horsepower. Then why would you skip the joy of stepping up from a 250 to a 450 to a 650 to a 900, whatever to that and and all those motorcycles and enjoying that. I think it is a process and jumping to it, especially like like if you want to if you want a bike with ABS and all these things, it's like I think the best riders that I've ever met are people that ride dirt. And they grew up riding dirt. I did not and I I I wish I did because riding on dirt teaches you everything about traction.

SPEAKER_01

And it's a little bit more kind. Well yeah just a little bit more kind than asphalt.

SPEAKER_02

Well and there are no cars and stuff like that. So but yeah like it just illustrates the fact that like you learn actual throttle control breaking right all the body English that goes into riding a motorcycle without those rider aids. The rider aids are are great but a lot of times I believe that they the that rider aids are they have been created to answer a need that is self-created. Whether it's the other riders car cars on the road and the speeds that we're going or the massive horsepower. I mean uh Bill took out a um over the the weekend he took out a new Pan America I think he told me the horsepower on that is 168 horsepower that's more than a Honda Civic that's more than my Volkswagen Jetta which is not a high horsepower machine. It's got a lot of torque but um like that's that's crazy. I took out a um the it's the first time I've rode a GS 1200 and I think that has 120 something horsepower and it scared scared me a little bit well what the reason it scared me is I treated I was stupid and I treated it like I ripped on the throttling gravel around a corner totally lost the rear end and had a blast. And then the front wheel was like while you're skirting on gravel your front wheel's coming up you know you're in bad it to me it took me a minute but then once you got that that's why I say once you get the hang of it it's like oh that's what this thing does. Right. And you get you'll get used to it. And they're beautiful well engineered machines um but it has a lot of rider aids as as you would expect right no I I I I I don't care what people get for their first motorcycle as long as they ride it.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's what it comes down to for me.

SPEAKER_02

I think so whatever keeps you and what keeps you riding right whether because you didn't have a crash or because you're still passionate about it. Right.

Closing And Ways To Join

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you all so much for watching episode number one hundred and twenty six of the Ramble Stream. We will see you all next week for episode one twenty seven.

SPEAKER_02

Bye-bye have a good week y'all that wraps up this episode of the Ramblestream podcast. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the show subscribe wherever you listen share it with a fellow rambler and please consider leaving a rating. And join us live every Monday at 7 p.m on YouTube for our weekly ramble stream. You can also find us at ramblestreampod dot com and on social at ramblestream. We'll be back next week with more conversations, more stories and of course more rambling. And remember many of those who ramble may very well be lost but that's probably the point