The Candy Rule That Could Get Bus Drivers Sued

A candy bag with a message. A rear door that swings open at speed. Two stories from the bus aisle reveal how fast a routine route can collide with law, policy, and real danger—and how much power drivers have to prevent the worst outcomes with clear boundaries and practiced habits.

We start with the controversial firing of a driver who handed out candy that included religious messages, unpacking what “private speech” means once you’re on the clock and engaging elementary-age kids. With help from a legal expert’s analysis, we look at the Establishment Clause, district liability, and why repeated warnings from supervisors change the equation. Our take is practical: keep kindness on the bus and belief off official time, and when leadership says “stop,” you stop. That protects students, your job, and the community’s trust.

Then we shift to a heart-stopping safety case: a child fell from the back of a moving bus after triggering the rear door release. We walk through how emergency exits are engineered to open quickly, why airflow can rip doors wide, and what the emergency buzzer gives you—and what it doesn’t. You’ll hear real-world tactics you can apply today: set strict expectations around red handles, run hands-on evacuation drills several times a year, seat high-risk students away from emergency exits, and rehearse your buzzer protocol so your response is automatic—eyes up, assess, signal, pull over.

Along the way, we explore design ideas like two-step latches, pre-alarms, and interlocks, and why changing school bus hardware requires patience with standards and procurement. Until the hardware changes, culture carries the load: clear rules, calm tone, predictable consequences, and professional boundaries that keep the ride safe for everyone.

If you drive, dispatch, train, or parent a bus rider, you’ll leave with simple actions to lower risk tomorrow morning. Listen, share with a colleague, and tell us your best drill tip or hardware wish list. Subscribe for more real stories and practical fixes, and leave a review to help other drivers find the show.

“These are our stories from the driver’s seat—our opinions only, not our  employer’s or school district’s. Student safety and privacy always come first, so no names, faces, routes, or ‘you know that kid’ details ever make it on the podcast.

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Transcript

Warm-Up, Banter, And Housekeeping

SPEAKER_02 0:23

You're listening to School Bus Banter episode six. I'm Joe.

SPEAKER_05 0:28

I'm Jerry. And today we're going to talk about two stories in the news that uh, well, one is a recap from the last one we talked about and a big update from that one. And another one, unfortunately, a kid fell out of the back of the bus, and which I've never thought about. And Joe has a story about that. So are we excited for this?

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Are we the energy in the room is top notch? Is what? I have the word for it. Spicy. Spicy. That's good. I did have a good hair day. Okay. So maybe I am spicy.

Community And Purpose Of The Show

SPEAKER_05 1:03

And she's due for a shower, and we just had a meeting for something else. So we've we've seen a lot from each other. So uh before we jump in, go to shitballs. I forgot the email.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

That's good. That's a good email.

SPEAKER_05 1:17

Sh sh I almost said shoolbusmanter at gmail.com. And then we have a Facebook link in the description. Hopefully you can um click it and join because we'd love to have you. This podcast is a is a passion project for both of us. We absolutely love talking about it uh because we live it every day and it's finally it's just an amazing way. And I know we keep talking about this and gushing about it, but it's uh such a really fun way to to have an outlet.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

It it is. You know, said it before, it's it's sharing information about um just trying to have a better behavior bus, really. But or just having fun with it, you know. I I hope that most people that do this job are in it for the right reasons, and that's you know, for the kids. So I don't know if you get something out of it.

SPEAKER_05 2:08

You're not in it for the money because I'm making freaking bank over here.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Bank, yeah.

Candy Handouts With Religious Messages

SPEAKER_05 2:13

Okay. Uh, story one. Uh, if you remember what we talked about last time, there was a driver that distributed candy. Well, here's the thing the the title says candy, but that wasn't the issue. She distributed bags of candy with different religious messages in it. Um, in regards to uh I think it was Jewish and Christian and nothing, I think. Um if you want to hear the whole our opinion on that, we're not gonna go over that now. Go back to the the last episode titled uh When Safety Checks Fail, Lessons from Two School, School Buses, School Bus Headlines. Sorry, I can't read. If you if you haven't figured that out, I can't read. So that's why I'm a bus driver. But so yeah, that basically what happened. She got fired. Uh, she filed a lawsuit saying that you know she asked the kids for permission, asked the parents. It sounded, in my opinion, was a kind of a lot of BS.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Um, I know Joe had a little bit of different opinion on it, but I was mad that they made a decision to allow her to pass the candy out, and then they reversed that decision. So that's that was what I was mad about. If she she also said that um you didn't have to take the candy, right? So if you have all of these options, what's wrong, right?

SPEAKER_05 3:35

But here's the only thing I think you and I both missed last time, and and no one's wrong in that. That was her affidavit in the lawsuit. So that wasn't she was saying that was factual, but that hadn't been proven.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:49

So, like the the fire or the no fire and then the fire. So we're gonna listen to the news and a legal expert talk about kind of what I talked about in last episode, the church and state. They don't actually use those terms. And then I will tell you what the district said went on, and I think you'll be surprised.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

That driver was fired after giving out candy bags to students that at times had Christian messaging.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

News 8's Josh Sanchez has a breakdown after looking through this case with a law professor.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

Sarah Robinson claims that her freedom to exercise her religion was violated by Madawan Consolidated Schools. However, the district says she was acting in her capacity as a public school employee. Among Robinson's ten charges against the district and superintendent, three are on religious discrimination and free exercise of religion. Part of the school's response says that giving out candy to students with Christian messaging while also performing her official duties as a bus driver exposed the district to liability under the establishment clause.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

I think they actually have a pretty good argument there.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

Frank S. Ravich is a professor at Michigan State University and has expertise with the Establishment Clause, a provision protecting the freedom of religion in the Constitution. Kennedy v. Bremerton School District has shaken the landscape for the Establishment Clause. Yet some of the cases cited weren't clearly overturned and has provided some tests that can back up the district's argument, like the history and tradition approach.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

To the extent that there is a history or tradition of you know um related to school employees doing religious things vis-a-vis elementary school students, the history shows that it's been unconstitutional since the first time it was considered.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

The district response says there's a quote constitutional obligation to avoid violating the establishment clause. While Robinson said in her lawsuit that students had a choice to pick a bag that had a religious message or one that didn't, Robert says there's still an issue.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

This isn't her private speech by herself. That would be protected. She's giving it to the children, and there's always going to be pressure. And this recent Supreme Court decision, it was a free exercise case, but in that decision, they talk about how impressionable elementary school age children are.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

I reached out to Robinson, who told me via text that right now she's been advised not to make a comment. According to online court records, she has a month to respond to the district. In Kalamazoo, Josh Sanchez, you say it.

District Response And Prior Warnings

SPEAKER_05 6:29

Okay. Did you take all that in? I know it was a lot of legal, legal jar. Big words. Big words, yeah. Um, but basically what it says, it's it's considered you can't do that, right? It's unconstitutional. They've never been able to really prove it. Um, that that someone can do that. It's not we're not they're not violating the free speech, um, because she's acting as a public school employee.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

And the article that I was reading on it, it sounded like she did this before.

SPEAKER_05 6:59

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

And they talked to her about it.

SPEAKER_05 7:01

So do you want to jump into that part?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

I was Yeah, let's just just dive in.

SPEAKER_05 7:05

Okay. Um, so yes, the let me see. I highlighted things. Document says she met with transportation director following the incident during her afternoon elementary route in October. She was questioned by the director and found to have distributed unapproved religious material to students. That was followed by a directive, uh, followed by a directive to not distribute the material while she's working or on school property or in a bus. Again on Friday, December 20. You distributed more religious material on your bus to students, specifically specifically exclude a child based on their beliefs, causing discomfort to the excluded child and family, the letter said. And then January, uh, she did it again.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

So yeah, she's done it three times.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

The tables have turned.

SPEAKER_05 7:54

Yes. So that is so what we're reading there is what the district's response to her lawsuit. So I I feel like we kind of got in the weeds with like they're not the um the news wasn't reporting what they found, they were reporting what the lawsuit stated what she's suing about. And then this is the counter from the district of like, no, you we told you three times not to do it. You don't have any space. You I mean, she's not gonna win.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

This we wouldn't even be talking about this article had she just not attached anything to the candy, just pass out the candy, yeah, right? Right. It was the real candy's fine, it was the messages that she put with it, and that's a hard pill to swallow because I mean we talked about both you and I our religious, you know, beliefs last episode, but um, as far as they told her don't do it, they told her don't do it, and she still did it. So now I have a problem with that. So not only did I'm just gonna take that reverse of the decision away, and it was like three strikes, you're out. I mean, if you're told not to do something, you tell your kids on the bus, right? Sit down, sit down, sit down, right up, stop screaming, stop screaming, stop screaming, right up.

SPEAKER_05 9:14

Well, that's the thing too. She said that in the lawsuit, she never mentioned any of that. That's the funny part. Like, she didn't mention that they told her no. Like, what did she think? Like, I'm surprised a lawyer took this, unless, well, they only took it based on what she said. You know what I mean? They're thought, oh, I have a case, but now that the district responded, my guess is it gets dropped because you know also.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Um it sounds like when they told her no, you know, stop doing that in the beginning, they pulled video footage, and then this third time when she was fired, they did not use video footage. I think it was reverse.

SPEAKER_05 9:55

I think it was reversed the last time they did have video, but it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

I I thought either way. Video came in, video was a part of it.

Policy, Free Speech, And Employment Rules

SPEAKER_05 10:04

Yeah, at some point, but but again, in her in her uh, I don't know what you call her lawsuit, it didn't say it said there there was no video. So she's she's all she's basically lying. Um, and I I I don't know, I smelled, you know, I had said too, I don't yeah, I actually again I wouldn't rat that employee out for doing it because I'm not so passionate about the church and state that I'm really gonna rile my you know department up over this, but I would be annoyed by it.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

You know, I'm not gonna like I don't especially if they told her stop doing it.

SPEAKER_05 10:38

Yeah, I feel like it's not I have no problem snitching on somebody, but I actually don't even feel that snitchable. I'd be like, whatever. If they're gonna be snitchable, snitchable. Is that a word? Did I just make up a word?

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Yep, I think so. Good job.

SPEAKER_05 10:53

I just I wouldn't I wouldn't rat them out. Well, I shouldn't say rat now. I tell my kids on the playground not to say that. They'll say, Nope, snitches get stitches. I'm like, no, you need to report stuff, you know. But here I am saying I'm not gonna snitch. But I just don't think it's worth the the fight or the the issue that it it would cause personally, but yeah, I mean just take the messages off and give out candy.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_05 11:20

Well, now she's giving her gonna give now she can give her message at trick or treat time because she's not gonna be driving a bus for that kind of oh nothing would be worth that.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

I mean, this job, if they told me to stop, I'd be devastated. Or like I would say, like, you know, why I wish I could, but I would do it because I'm not gonna pursue anything that you know.

SPEAKER_05 11:40

Yeah, you don't want to get fired. I mean, you you you have a obligation to follow the I mean, it's just like any, even though it's a public school, you have to follow the rules. Like if you worked in a factory or if you worked at McDonald's, like if they said, Hey, please don't do that anymore, you continue to do it, you're gonna get written up, and eventually you're gonna get fired.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Yeah, that's well, I think we're still gonna hear more from this.

SPEAKER_05 12:01

Yeah, my guess is she was a pain in the ass, anyways, and they're probably glad to get rid of her.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Oh no, you don't know that.

SPEAKER_05 12:09

Yes, stamp it. Stamp it. Well, yeah, well, let's follow, let's try to keep our eyes and ears open for um the response.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

If anybody listening too has, you know, something to say about this or can find us out more information.

Listener Input And Next Steps

SPEAKER_05 12:26

Yeah, that'd be great. Find us join the Facebook group, or if you're not on Facebook, which is I totally get, um, send us an email. What do you what do you guys think? So all right. The second article was uh a person, a person, huh? A child uh had been hospitalized. I think this was in New York. He was rushed to the hospital, falling out the rear door of a moving school bus. They got a call that the report of an unconscious pedestrian near the street. Basically, they determined the cops that the child had unintentionally activated the rear door release while riding in the moving school bus, causing the child to fall from the bus on the roadway. Uh the car behind it, unfortunately, or fortunately, was able to stop and not hit the kid because that would have been that I mean, that kid would have been done. Um not that I like this article, but I never even thought about this. And it brings up such a good point. There's no security on those back. I mean, it's a lever, and and that's it. Like, there's no lock.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

My lever, I don't know about your door, but my lever is easy. Mine pulls up easy because I open it every day, but it's easy. Love, and when you go, that door swings open so fast it's weighted. It like just it wants to open.

Child Falls From Rear Bus Door

SPEAKER_05 13:40

Well, especially if the if the bus is moving down the road, the the wind's gonna catch that and slam it open. So god, I just never even thought about that. But I've never that goes with let's go ahead. No, I was gonna say I've never had any child any anything attempt to open it. Have you had that happen at all?

SPEAKER_02 13:59

I did, but I'm gonna um go back a second and just say you state your expectations, and the kids are only touching that stuff during your evac.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Right.

Emergency Exits, Buzzers, And Drills

SPEAKER_02 14:09

What it what do you call those? Those practice evacs that we do, evacuations? Evacuation drills. Um yeah, my all my kids love those days. We if we get to school early, and like, okay, who's sitting by a red-handled window? Let's make sure everybody knows how to open these up, and all my kids can do it. Um, all my K through four we practice, and five through twelve we practice um, you know, four or five, six times a year. And um I have a midday run that I do, it's just a shuttle. I bring kids from an elementary school to another school, and um there's our special needs kids, so I have not practiced a lot of evac or anything with them, it's just mainly highs and Pokemon. They love that. So I find something to relate to them, but they do like to sit by these windows with the red handle, and we were going down a road, and when that emergency buzzer goes off, the my heart just like it was on the floor, right? So it's like, what's going on with the bus? I've got these kids on here, and you know, three adults, I think, and we're all looking around, and sure enough, just one of them just started opening up random windows, and one of them had that red handle that was the emergency buzzer, and I think it scared that student too, but not enough to not do it again a couple minutes later. Oh boy, because we go running and you know, going down the road and it happens again. And this time when I looked back, um, the students just looking at me and doing it at the same time. So now I know I'm like, okay, now the student's just thinking he's got me, you know, seeing if it's funny or not. But um, I had one of the one of the teachers put him in a seat that does not have a red handle, but he sure as heck would have done it three, four, five more times given the opportunity. It scared me a lot. Like I was yeah, though, because those red hand, those pop. If you go down a road and it bumps so much that some of mine will just pop right up, too.

SPEAKER_05 16:18

Yeah, I mean, you know, your bus is a little bit older than mine. Um, but I did drive a bus where very regularly the kids had to close it. And I'm telling you, that buzzer, that is loud. It is like you don't miss that, you know, if it's a window or a rear door. I think I had it one time like last month, somebody like their backpack caught on a window one, and I'm like, okay, who touched it? And they're all like, not me. That was my older kids, and I'm like, not me. I'm like, okay, that's fine, but somebody just close the handles. Everyone grab a handle and close it, and then it went off. But it is terrifying. I never had thanks for this story. I'm now terrified of one of my kids doing it, but I also want to commend you on I've learned so much about the way you do things, and I feel inadequate inadequate uh with the amount of like talking I do. I mean, I'm just I'm a different person than you, and so I've never said, you know, you said my expectations, we don't touch these, and I've never lit, I've literally never said that.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Well, my evac has grown my evac speech has grown over the years. Again, when you're in year four, so year four, I was just reading off the piece of paper that we get from you know the office that says here's what you gotta do. But I have added to that based on experiences that have happened to me. So if I want to scare the kids a little bit by saying, you know, you open that back door, you're falling out, then I'm gonna say it, go with the worst and hope for the best.

SPEAKER_05 17:56

No, I just appreciate, you know, again, we're we're we're gushing about the podcast, but I appreciate having these conversations, and that's what we hope to like someone else that listens to, and it's like, God dang, I need to freaking mention that because who as much as it's annoying, who wants to have a kid fall out and get run over by a car? I mean, or a bus behind the the other one, but that brings brings up a good question. Should that be able to be locked? Right. So I drive old people around, and our buses actually just have a little lever that's a lock and unlock, and then you grab the handle. So it it's not a key, it's it's not, but it gives the security a little bit like if you are somewhere and you park the bus, you can actually lock that. But ours can't.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

No, and that would just be like a two-step process instead of a one-step process, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:52

And it's you know, literally, I can do it like this click handle. Like it's not, it's not like you're like it's not hard at all. And I'm not sure why they don't have now the kid could do that as well, but at least it's two steps, you know. Maybe put a buzzer on that lock. So they hit buzzer on the lock. So as soon as that hits that, you're like, what the hell's going on? You're looking up, you're pulling over, you know what I mean. I guess it's one more step before they open the back door.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

It goes, I guess, with seat belts on the bus, and you know, whenever we're talking about safety equipment and everything, but it would have to be tested, and more kids may have to fall out the back door before we get a lock in there, right? I mean, it's we're not proactive in this country, so we wouldn't do it before. Right. Let's do it after something bad happens, right?

SPEAKER_05 19:43

Yeah, no, I I think I I bet other professionals and even people that engineer buses, I bet they've talked about it, but I think the problem is, especially since it's in the public sector, to change something like that is you gotta like write a bill. Like, I feel like it's not like if you owned own business your own business, like like uh you'd be like, okay, this is what we're doing now because this seems safe.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

No, you can't modify the school buses, no, right?

SPEAKER_05 20:11

Exactly. And I don't know if a private company could do that, but like, yeah, you can't just willy-nilly decide this is what we're gonna do. Um, right. So, yeah, it's an interesting conversation. I've never thought about. Thank you for uh having a new terror to think about. Um, honestly, if you hear that buzzer, you should look up and then try to figure if you can pull over. Like up what's going on, assess real quick, and then turn your blinker on and pull over because that was that's probably the safest option.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Yeah, we have to do everything else very quickly. So add that one to your list of stuff you got to do while you're driving a school bus. Right. And listening to the radio and listening for the kids. Yeah. I love it. Right.

SPEAKER_05 20:55

So yeah, anything else you want to add about this? Uh, you know, we we we're trying to do the news because I think we have a a lot to talk about during our regular episodes.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

So no, those are two pretty good videos. Um yeah, yeah, those are two good ones to again. If anybody has any information that, you know, needs to put their two cents in on these ones, we'd love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_05 21:18

Yeah, I feel like two, like I feel like when we get done with these, we need to be like, okay, what are two actionable things that we can do from these stories? Like story number one or like story number two with the thing, hey Jason, maybe when during evac, let's talk about we don't touch these. Like, I feel like that's very proactive. And then I think the first one with the candy, don't put religious messages in there, or you know, just don't don't force anything on your kids, I guess.

Design Fixes And System Constraints

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Is that is that is that too vague or yeah, and and again though, let's go back to if she wasn't forcing, because we don't know. She said she wasn't. Well, if she wasn't forcing, that's one thing, but just keep keep everything so generalized. Just a sucker. That's all you need. You'll be happy with just that.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

Yeah. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Then when you're not working, go ahead and do what you need to do after that.

SPEAKER_05 22:12

Agreed. Keep everything uh equal for everybody, and it's twenty twenty. We can't we got careful. We can't offend anybody. So we just gotta be keep it keep it on the straight and narrow, folks.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

So yep, that's good. Y'all set, Jared?

SPEAKER_05 22:29

All set, Joey Joe.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Thanks for listening. Same bus.

SPEAKER_05 22:33

Same kids.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Different stories.

SPEAKER_05 22:36

Get on the mic and do it again. What the fuck are you doing? I'm not even looking at you and I couldn't hear the last part.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

My ass hurts. I don't have a good chair. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 22:47

We're talking about delicate asses now again. That's a callback.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Okay. Thanks for listening. Same bus.

SPEAKER_05 22:53

Same kids.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Different stories.

SPEAKER_05 22:56

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Bye.