AWAKEN with Ryan DeJonghe

The Architecture of Rapid Change with Mike Mandel

• Ryan DeJonghe, Founder of TranceWell.help • Episode 18

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0:00 | 52:25

In this episode of AWAKEN, Ryan DeJonghe welcomes a true legend in the field, Mike Mandel. Known globally for his work at the Mike Mandel Hypnosis Academy, Mike has trained thousands of practitioners in the art of efficient, elegant, and results-driven hypnosis. They dive into Mike’s philosophy of "Neo-Ericksonian" hypnosis, exploring how to move away from clunky, script-based approaches toward a more fluid, conversational, and highly effective style of change work.

Key Discussion Points

  • The Mandel Methodology: Mike shares his journey from stage performer to clinical master, detailing how he distilled complex psychological concepts into the "Mandel Model" of rapid change.
  • The Death of the Script: Why Mike advocates for throwing away hypnotic scripts in favor of dynamic, real-time interventions that respond to the client's unique "map of the world."
  • Precision Language: Discover the power of "clean language" and the subtle linguistic shifts that allow a hypnotist to bypass the conscious mind’s critical faculty with ease.
  • Brain Software & Hardware: Mike explains his perspective on the mind as a series of programs and how to "patch" or rewrite the subconscious software that keeps people stuck in old patterns.
  • The Ethics of Empowerment: A discussion on the responsibility of the hypnotist to empower the client, ensuring they leave the session with more autonomy and a deeper connection to their own resources.

Memorable Quotes

"We aren't fixing people; we are just helping them run better software in a brain that was already designed for excellence." 

"Hypnosis is the art of getting the conscious mind out of the way so the subconscious can do the job it was always meant to do."


Special Segment: Hypnotic Gift

Don't miss the end of the episode for a special hypnotic gift from Mike Mandel. He leads a signature "Empowerment Induction," a session designed to help you integrate your internal resources, clear mental fog, and step into a state of peak confidence and peace.

(Note: Please listen only when you can safely relax and give the process your full attention.)

Episode Timestamps

  • 00:00:15 – Introduction of Mike Mandel
  • 00:07:20 – Why the hypnosis community trusts the Mandel Method
  • 00:16:45 – Scripts are for actors: Moving to dynamic change work
  • 00:29:30 – Linguistic Precision: The "Mandel Model" explained
  • 00:41:10 – Rewriting the Subconscious Software
  • 00:55:00 – The Power of "Peace and Love" in Therapy
  • 01:06:20 – Hypnotic Gift: The Mandel Empowerment Session
  • 01:14:45 – Final words and where to find the Mike Mandel Hypnosis Academy

Connect with Mike Mandel

  • Official Website: mikemandelhypnosis.com
  • Training: Join the Mike Mandel Hypnosis Academy (MMHA) to learn the full system of change.

Connect with Ryan DeJonghe

If you want to experience the kind of rapid change Mike and I discussed, or if you're ready to "update your own internal software," let's connect:

SPEAKER_00

Everyone, I'd like to give a warm welcome to our guest today, Mr. Mike Nandell. Welcome, Mike. Peace and love, my friend. I'm here for you. Peace and love. You know, countless people. I started in Reddit and then on Facebook, I'm like, what's the best place to learn hypnosis? And you know, there's been a lot of bad talk about other places, but 100% of the time when people say learn from Mike Mandel, it's always positive.

SPEAKER_01

Wonderful, man. Yeah, that's that's nice. Because you know what, buddy? Uh, despite all the lunacy in our Brain Software podcast and the kidding around, which amazes me that two psychiatrists came to Toronto from Singapore to study with us because they heard the podcast. I thought, oh shoot, that didn't put you on. That's funny. It yeah, it the bottom line is despite all the kidding around, we love to train people to become world-class hypnotists to change the world one person at a time, set people free from pain and disorders and sadness, all this stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I even wonder as you begin to talk about the fun time you had, and it's kind of something that's been in the back of my mind in posting my own social media is what if we told it in jokes? What if we made it funny? And there's something because even it goes back to the Bible, it talks about humor as a medicine, and you probably know where it might go beyond that.

SPEAKER_01

Humor is a medicine. It isn't it. Norman Cousins, who wrote um what the heck was his book? Norman Cousins wrote Anatomy of an Illness. He was a medical doctor and he had cancer. And my understanding of it is he essentially put it into remission, if not cured it, by watching a bunch of comedians and laughing his ass off.

SPEAKER_00

So oh dang, I got goosebumps now because before I didn't man, laughter is good medicine. Yeah. And before I came into hypnosis, I was doing stand-up comedy.

SPEAKER_01

And you were a therapist already.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I had this idea in my mind that people are in trance all the time. And then so when they come to the comedy show, they might be in a trance of I just had a fight with my spouse or I'm running late. And you know, all these things in their head. I was like, what if we broke that trance at the door? It's just oh dude. Handshake, everyone comes in, hey, pat them on the back. Great to see you, kind of rattled them up. And sure enough, the difference between the shows I produced night and day, it's like hit and ties them at the door.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. The pattern interrupt is such a remarkable power. I've told couples who fight to um, I'm just gonna shut this off here. Stuff popping up on my Mac.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's a good thing to tell couples that fight.

SPEAKER_01

Just I would shut this off. Shut this pecker off. But the thing is when people get in fights and stuff, years ago, my wife and I would have an argument and I start going, yeah. Yeah. We gotta break the patterns, break the old patterns.

SPEAKER_00

You know what? When I was in college taking a site course, I think they quoted you because they're like, if and they literally taught that in college psychology, you know, say something stupid in the middle of a fight.

SPEAKER_01

It's the advantage of being old. I mean, I'm coming up to seven, I'm coming up to 73 in two months and feeling amazing, still have carrying elite fitness at my age. I mean, literally, yeah. Biologically, I'm considered to be 45. But the point is, if life isn't fun, like what the hell's the point?

SPEAKER_00

You know, like yes, yes, and I I want to loop back to what you're saying about laughter and yeah, potentially whatever the story might be, curing cancer. And I wonder, I've been lately kind of hinged on these miracles. I look at some of our other fellow hypnotists in the field, and the ones that are kind of leaning onto ritual and comparing it with almost a spiritual element are getting some amazing results.

SPEAKER_01

Nice. You know who gets great results? Yeah, Gary Coles. Gary Coles out of the UK. I mean, his thing is dealing with cancer, with hypnosis. I mean, just unbelievable. And if we can mobilize, this is two parts though, dude. Yeah, here's the thing if we can mobilize the human immune system, create killer T cells, separate B cells, you know, um, antibodies, all this stuff. That's fantastic. However, sometimes it works, but despite that, no matter how we eat, no matter how much we sleep, exercise, love, the death rate is still one per person.

SPEAKER_00

Still one per person, yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, there's something there. You're talking about you kind of touched on something I was watching. I don't know how you feel about Joe Dispenza if you're into some of that.

SPEAKER_01

Don't know, don't know Joe Dispenza at all.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I live a sheltered life.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, okay. Well, he's kind of known for having a terrible accident, just shattering his spine, and he didn't want to do this gruesome surgery. So he just spent kind of self-hypnotized himself over months and visualized repairing the bones and like doing surgery through his mind. And right, right now he's walking around. And then he talks about kind of what you were talking about there about gene expression. So if you have two factory workers side by side, one is oh, I raised my hand here, uh, side by side. One, if he's laughing, if he's in love with life or whatever, and the other guy is just there, even though they're breathing the same chemicals and have the same, it's that gene expression of life. It's a different response.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It kind of like it intercepts the signal to the gene.

SPEAKER_01

I totally agree. And it's interesting because um my mom died at 53 of cancer. My dad died at 57 of his first heart attack. He it was a massive heart attack, first sign of heart disease. So my my wife and I had actually programmed ourselves for years, we're gonna die young, we're gonna die young. Her parents died young, right? And then one day I thought, I'm not gonna have enough freaking money. I was smart enough because I'm still alive. But uh, yeah, bro. I turn I turn it around. I mean, it's a totally different expression of the genes, right? Um, it it'll get me eventually, but I'm living life and having a blast, and I still got a 17-year-old kid in my head, you know.

SPEAKER_00

I love that, and it's contented and then yeah, it goes back to Jesus again when he said suffer the children. There's something about being childlike with life, childlike, yeah, yeah. The innocence of a child, yeah, yes, and that curiosity. And my curiosity, you mentioned visualizing and changing the script in your mind, and it really changed your reality. So, in a way, can we through our mind create our own reality?

SPEAKER_01

There are limits to the to the situation. We're talking about slopsipism here, where the idea that we can change reality through our thoughts. But the problem is, as and I love this line, a sylopsipist thinks they create their own reality until they're run over by a moving van and sue the moving company. Yes, meaning they are no longer syllopsopists. Yes, there are limits to the model. I I do agree that there's something incredibly powerful in intention. I'll give you an example, bro. Years ago, when I was a little kid, I had a favorite book. And I mean, I was a reading fanatic as a little kid, and this book was called The Peterkin Papers. It was all short stories. And I lost it in all the many moves my parents did because they were nomads. We came from England when I was a kid. But this book, it was Pink Spine, gray cover, and I thought, man, I'd love to have that book again. I'd love to read it again. And I really thought about it and I forgot about it. Yes. And then I was downtown Toronto walking up Young Street, which is the longest street in the world, goes from Lake Ontario to Hudson's Bay and James Bay. And I'm walking up there, and it poured rain. And I just ducked into a doorway and thought it was a bookstore I should go in. Forgotten about it, just walked in, went American papers. I saw half a second before I saw it, I knew it was there. Two bucks. I've got it again. There is something to intention. Yes, to me, bro, it's this. I don't understand it, but to me, intention is like cotton. I don't understand it, but I use it.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right. And then it goes back to even the hypnosis. Like one of the most brilliant things I hear practitioners say is you don't have to believe a damn thing, just sit there. Yeah, yeah. Isn't that the truth? Yeah, and that reminds me of like Scott Sandelin, who's run Hypno Thoughts Live. He said that's how it worked for him. He's like, prove it. They're like, did their thing and look at them now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and Scott, Scott is freaking excellent. I have so much, so much respect for him. And Hypno Thoughts Live, people who've never been there, freaking go hang out with a thousand other hypnotists of every other stripe, every other color of belief and gender. And guess what? Yeah, we all get along just great. It's it's a model of what humanity should be. 99%. There's a there's a 99%. There's always a couple like that evil Chris Thompson.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. And Scott sends his regard to Chris, he's looking forward to picking on him this July. Hilarious. All right, so I'm I'm trying to scratch the itch of miracles. And it's interesting you talk about these conferences. I know in the UK conference. See, I work with blind veterans during the day. That's my day job. And then so I had this theory, there's a type of blindness called functional blindness where the eyes work, but the brain, through trauma or TBI, say, no, you can no longer see. We don't, things are so bad out there, we don't want you to see it. And the brain turns off the vision. And so in the UK conference, there's a uh hypnotist, mainly medical-based, that cured that type of blindness. And the thing that compels me, I used to be a preacher way back in the day, and Jesus says, that's why I maybe keep talking about Jesus, but he says, These works and greater shall you do. Now, I've been in a lot of different churches, and I've never heard anyone say they've cured blindness.

SPEAKER_01

But meanwhile, so what we're talking about here, yeah, so it's something happening in the occiput in the site center of the brain. Yeah. So that it it's isn't a psychological thing shutting the gate of being able to see. And when we liberate that, say it's okay to see, all of a sudden they can't. Is that what it is? Exactly. And that's freaking wild. Right? Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then there's even the military, US military, had that program after World War II where they would they would give them um the liquid hypnosis. Um, I forget what it's called now, the Twilight Sedation, propopol. They would give them propopol. So the guy had the PTSD, shell shocked. He came in saying, I can't walk. I can't walk. The doctors check him, his legs work. They give him this propopol and suggest to them, by the way, your legs work, you can walk. And what's he doing? He gets up and walks.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. It's it's freaking wild. But the amazing thing I saw myself, bro, yeah, I taught for years. I mean, you know, I've been doing hypnosis for over 60 years now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

50 of them full time. So I'm coming up to 73. I'm a freaking old guy. But older, older. Here's the thing. But back at my cabin, we my wife and I have a cabin, 600 square feet on a lake in northern Ontario, pristine, clean wolves, bears. I mean, it's it's crazy. Oh man, amazing. But having said that, and I'm there three months of the year, I go all a steer and quiet and live up there. But a couple of years ago, even though I taught this, I'd never seen this, I had put some uh spare ribs in the oven to heat up. They're 450 freaking degrees on a heavy steel tray, not like aluminum, but heavy steel full for heat. And I put the blacksmith's gloves on, I take these peckers out, and I put trivets down, and I set them on the counter. Yes. I take the gloves off, turn away, and I came back. I see it, I feel it already, yeah. And I grabbed the tray to put it back. It's like, yeah, it's stuck to my hand. I take the gloves off. And these two fingers stuck. Yes. And I said to my wife, I'm gonna go into the other room. Now, the theory is this Dabin Hewan, University of in Louisiana, he said, if we can get to a burn within a couple of hours with hypnosis, we can shut off braidokinin release. Now, braidokinins are the enzymes that make a burn worse. So we get the original burn, physical burn, and then braidokinins come in and make the inflammation go crazy. So he said, Deal with it as soon as you can. So I said to my wife, I'm gonna go lie down in the other room, put myself in a trance and deal with this. I'll be back in 20 minutes. So no colour. So no cross. Like under the tap first, blush burns and cold water before help until help arrives. Yeah, lie down. And I saw a little tiny fireman with backpack full of dusted nitrogen. He starts hosing down this finger and cooling it, cooling it. And then he goes to the next one and then comes back. It's the two that were burned. They stuck to it, yeah, and it starts to throb again. He comes back, does it again, till stop throbbing? Next morning, I got up and I said, Remember the fingers I burned yesterday? She said, Yeah. I said, Look, she said, It's the other hand. I said, No, it isn't. Oh man, nothing. And then I thought, man, oh man, if we can do this, like we've seen warts disappear, all of this stuff. It I think Tad James was right, the late great.

SPEAKER_00

I was about to say his name with the HUNA stuff here.

SPEAKER_01

I'm a Presbyterian elder, so I'm sort of with you on that. But the thing is, he said, hypnosis is the mind-body connection, and that's it. That gives us the way in, and it's a God-given thing. Yes, women came up to a woman came up to me in my church years ago, had a printed stack of paper. I don't know how much freaking printer ink she used. Yeah, and she said, You gotta read this. It was really pissed off, and it was hypnosis, threat, or menace.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, or there's a double blind, yes, there's a double blind, no other option. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But it's the thing is people don't understand. This is how the mind works, this is how we're hardwired, this is how we're built. And if we can get it, it's not even hijacking it. If we can use it the way we're supposed to, we can help people change and have wonderful lives. And yeah, but the great thing, oh, and with this, I'll turn it back to you.

SPEAKER_00

No, this is fascinating.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, pastor by church, his name was Basil Das. He's since passed away. He was East Indian, but he pastored on Capitol Hill at Peter Marshall's church in in DC. Yeah, came to Toronto, pastored a 40-person Presbyterian church, he believed he was sent there, and he said, What do you do, Mike? And I've cut off shirt and everything, tattoos everywhere. I said, I'm a hypnotist. You know what this man said to me? Yes, you must be able to help a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00

That's not it, isn't that wonderful? Like, yes, I love that. That's where we are, man. And it's funny when you're talking about intention, and I feel that's a major component of helping clients. I know it's part of your Mandel triangle, which I love. You're a smart man. You're a smart man. Yeah, yeah. And it's so sweet how that triangle works perfectly. For those that are unaware, listening or watching us, it's that confidence, congruence, and the intent, or what do you call it? Conviction. We call it conviction, but conviction, and in the middle is calibration. So we have to check if it's working, yeah, yeah. Oh man, yeah. That calibration, that's tough stuff, man. How do you see always be calibrating? Always, yeah. How does one because there's a great clip about Orson Wells? I don't know, have you seen it, where he talks about calibration? No, so Orson Wells, he did this thing where he set up a gypsy tent with this crystal ball. Yeah, and he just said free readings, right? And then so people just came in all day long to Orson Wells, and he's sitting there being Orson Wells, and just at the beginning, kind of calibrating him, and then over by the end of the day, he was able to tell them some things that seem like he wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_01

Like Wells was a good, yeah, maybe a good magician, a good mentalist. What amazes me, bro, yeah, is that you're at your age that you even know who the hell he was. I'm weird, man. That's a good kind of weird, bro. It's a good kind of weird. Yeah, he was he was he was excellent at that, and the whole thing about being able to offer back people's situation, the whole cold reading thing is can be it can be very hypnotic. Um it astounds me because there's ways of calibrating the response, as what you're saying about Orson Wells. He's picking up the subtle cues, yes, and then when he knows he's hit, made a hit, he's feeding it back.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah, and that's trusting his what do you ever call it? Unconscious mind, unconscious mind, intuition, yeah. Yeah, how um how do we just live by trusting our intuition?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's not easy because as Tad James said, trust your unconscious mind. Because if you can't trust your unconscious mind, whose unconscious mind can you trust? It's a great line, but I think we learn to listen to the prompts of practice. And like I tell my students, I've got what 2,000 students now or something. I tell them the only difference between me and you is I'm a little bit further down the Elliot Brick Road. Because doing anything for 60 years and professionally for 50, you're gonna get an edge. It's just that. And so when Chris and I would go to Hypno Thoughts uh a couple of years ago, he had me doing five five-minute sessions with people, absolutely random. What do you need to change? Come over here, sit down, bang, bang, bang, bang. They go fixed. And and we recorded them all, which was kind of cool. Yeah. Public speaking, fears, all kinds of things. When we have, when we understand the buttons, how to get in, and we have that intention of love and wanting to really wanting to help the person. Yeah, their unconscious doesn't resist.

SPEAKER_00

It's pretty cool. Fascinating, yeah. I and then I'm just blown away by the five-minute, I'll call it five-minute miracle sessions, whatever you want to call it. You know, boom, it's like boom, you're done, you're done. It's like next, yeah. And then meanwhile, you see people in our field that have hour and a half, two hour, three-hour sessions. I'm like, that sounds there's nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that. Cruely.

SPEAKER_01

Sometimes there's but sometimes there's time for for marathon sessions. I was a therapist from 1993 to 2000, and um I really like setting people free from pain and fear and that stuff. And I think it's true that yeah, I read that study it freaks me out, Ryan, because it that study that when you're doing any kind of therapy, the least important thing is the therapy you've chosen. The most important thing is if the client likes you. Yeah, if we can build that rapport and be light, and then we can get in, we can be trusted, and the barriers go down.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's funny because you talk so much about rapport and uh MMHA. And I was just thinking about today because I was reading something about this doctor who works in these emergency rooms, and there's a study done on the rapport. Like if you just begin matching your breathing to them, there's a study that that increases how likely they're gonna their outcomes of being in the ER.

SPEAKER_01

Just matching their breathing to heals them. It's astonishing. When I studied with John Grinder, the co-founder of N LPM, an NLP trainer under him. John Grinder gave me a really cool thing. I had lunch with him, it was a great blessing, just the two of us. And he said, Yeah, you can do all that. You can match and mirror and match their breathing and get your spinal tilt the same and offer back their language. You can do all that, it absolutely works. Yeah. But he said, Here's the powerful shortcut, and I'll give this to your listeners right now as my gift. Pretend the person you're talking to is the most fascinating, important person you've ever met, and continue to pretend that all through the interaction, interaction, and your mirror neurons will do the rest. Your rapport will go off the freaking scale.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that is. And I'm doing it with you right now, bro. I'm just saying, I noticed that even before I hit rec record, I noticed that was your not knowing you know what your intention was, but that's what you're doing. You're making me feel good. You're like, what's up, bro? It's all love, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Like I'm interested because I'm interested in you, and I'm genuinely enjoying the conversation, and that comes across, it comes across congruently.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, for sure. You feel that. And speaking of feeling things, like yeah, what are your thoughts on the energy or the spirit or something? Like there's something there because and part of me is the quote. I don't know if you've heard this about Ericsson, but you talked about NLP, but he says something about the nut and taking the shell and leaving the nut. Have you heard that quote?

SPEAKER_01

It sounds painful.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it does sound painful, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's talking about the NLP boys. He said they did pretty good about taking the nut and cracking it, cracking the nut and leaving the nut.

SPEAKER_01

Leaving the shell.

SPEAKER_00

Well, no, he's saying they took the shell of it and left behind the nut. Because you said took the nut and left behind. Oh, okay, yeah, my bad. Yeah. So I was yeah, and that's fair. And I was just wondering because he did things from the inside out. Yeah, he did. He did. And I wonder what that inside thing is that he touched upon.

SPEAKER_01

Oh man. Oh, let me show you something. Yeah. I'm going over my Raven here, sitting on my desk. This is Edgar. And put him here.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

This, my friend. This is something you'll probably not see very often. This is a brick from Milton Ericsson's house. Oh, nice. 34 West Cypress Street. Oh, that's cool. It's got the Elizabeth Erickson signature on it. Why have I got that? One of my students knew I was an Ericksonian. He's a David Fairweather, full-time therapist. He showed up at my teaching in Toronto at the University of Toronto and he said, I bought you something. I got you something. It's a box. He said it's a brick from Milton Erickson's house. I looked and saw a brick. Ha ha, big joke. And I got a home, I was gonna throw in the garbage. And I saw the box. It said the Ericsson Foundation, Phoenix, Arizona. I went, holy shit. Yeah, it's the real deal. And then there's a plaque on it. It's the real deal. They knocked it down.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's like Joni Mitchell, they paid paradise, they put up a parking lot. But to have that, when I teach architecture of hypnosis in Toronto, this is in front of all my books, and I touch this to get Erickson's vibe, to get his blessings from it.

SPEAKER_00

You know that it's funny because as you're talking about it, I was going to ask, do you feel it? When you like people take crystals and they can feel the different types, the weights, and yeah, there you go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So what part then does this energy play in when you're seeing in particular clients?

SPEAKER_01

Hmm. And then well, I'm I'm big into a lot of the topping regimens. I I did soft fuel therapy and top of psychopature technique and EFT. I studied with Willem Lammers, a Swiss psychologist. And you know, bro, I had a thing where my dog, I had a bull terrier. His name was Lockjaw. And he could bite through a hockey stick. He was 70 pounds. He was a great white shark with lungs. I loved him dearly, my first dog, and he died. And I was in so much pain over that. I buried it. And I went to the seminar with Willem Lammers. And he said, We I need someone to come up. This is his fourth language, English, but he's teaching it. He said, I need someone to come up who's got something that's a problem. I said, I got something. He said, What is it? I said, I lost my dog and all this. And he said, How bad out of 10? I said, about a six out of 10.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I knew nothing about the tapping. He said, Okay, tell me the story. So take him in. He had these problems, had up in youth and he said, Tap here. So yeah, I took, I tapped it. He said, now do this, and I did. And he said, now check again. He's got his notes. And I went, it's gone. He went, Yes, it's gone. I said, no, no, it's gone. He said, yes, it's supposed to be gone. Not this five year old doing this. And I phoned my wife. I said, I remember my dog now with love and fun, and all the freaking pain is gone. And that got me into the energetic stuff. And then I developed my own six-step topping, which is condensation. Yes. And it works on 95% of things. Here, here, forehead, upper eye, under eye, collarbone, grip here, breathe in, relax, say peace, like uh Robert Smith said. And yeah, it it's I don't understand this, but I do like another thing I do is Jin Shinjutsu. I'm a martialist. Yes. I'm actually a martial artist. So there we go. That's heavily influenced by the spirit. Yeah, it's it there's something to it. And the proof is we're not praying to Satan to make something work. You can test this in a laboratory, get people to grip this finger and see what happens to their panic attack. And it's pretty freaking wild, man. But um it is it's gonna be a lot of new stuff over the next few years, and I want to be on the edge of it.

SPEAKER_00

And I wonder, you talk about gripping like in their minds, we're thinking, okay, we gotta do this just right, grip this point here. And I wonder if you can even like do the mesmer tree, you know, where he hypnotized a tree and people are getting healed by the wrong tree. I wonder. I wonder if like if you just grab a different finger, if it had the same effect, as long as you have a few.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know about I don't know about that, but what I do know is once you've done the six step and had it work, yeah. If you're in a stressful situation, you don't even have to do it. You can feel that you're tapping those and it gets the same effect. So there's the intentionality again, right? Yes. It's pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_00

Even if you're saying that, I was imagining tapping, and I felt it. It's as if I felt it as I was imagining it. And Ryan, that'll work for you.

SPEAKER_01

That'll absolutely work for you. You're a free thinker, bro.

SPEAKER_00

You are yeah, I'm telling you, it's it's me chasing the word miracle. Because in 2011 I died and it was a sudden cardiac arrest. It was freaky because the week before I was praying, God, please kill me. And he literally did. It was instant lights out. To this day, the doctors don't know what did it. They call it idiopathy.

SPEAKER_01

So you don't have any any heart residue of you know internal problems. Yeah, they did.

SPEAKER_00

It just stopped because it's purely electrical signal that just stopped. Don't don't do it during this podcast because that is a good idea.

SPEAKER_01

It's a party trick, you know.

SPEAKER_00

It's a party trick.

SPEAKER_01

But that's the hell of a party you go to, man.

SPEAKER_00

Here's the thing. I where I was during that time was whether you call it neurons firing or whatever, it was a place where I was no one and everyone at the same time. I was nowhere and everywhere at the same time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Non-locality, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And here's the fascinating thing. I felt an energy coming from India. I just felt it. And then when they shocked me back, and later on, after I was putting a tacoma for a while, and then when they brought me back, my dad told me he started a prayer chain, and there was a church congregated in India that was praying for me. Isn't that wild? Isn't that wild?

SPEAKER_01

And then probably just for the sake of interest here. Yeah, you're the only person I know who can actually say the words legitimately.

SPEAKER_00

And when they shocked me back, yeah 74 times. I went through a crash cart and a half because I'm a big dude. And I just kept going out and in and out.

SPEAKER_01

And they're like, You don't look big on the screen. You don't look big on the screen.

SPEAKER_00

It's normal, just normal, you know. And it's whatever that is, whatever. And yeah, it was they shocked me so many times I went blind. That all of the white in my eyes was red because just boom, and I had two scars on my chest. It was crazy. But what was this? What was this? 2011. Wow. And there's all kinds of cool stories involved with that. And the one thing that chases me, or I chase it, I don't know which, but it's that it felt powerful in that place. It's almost like I visited the quantum realm, the quantum realm, or the subconscious, or as Jung calls it, the collective unconscious.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, collective unconscious.

SPEAKER_00

Because I felt connected. That's the thing that that is interesting to me, is that we're all connected and that we can we can influence it through energy.

SPEAKER_01

The whole uh the whole collective unconscious is a huge thing with me. Yeah, it astounds me endlessly that uh the resonance of different symbolism and different archetypes throughout all cultures. And yeah, if you know, if you put a um let's say North American shaman in Australia, they understand each other instantly. It's like yes, they the drumming and everything, the trans states, they freaking get it, you know, right? But it's um man, it's wild, isn't it? And I think with hypnosis, I think we're on the brink of some really interesting things because if you look at it, we start with Mesmer, we have a lot of prestige. I mean, the guy wore a freaking turban and had a wand and robes and glass harmonica playing. Like prestige, prestige, the wrong tree, like you said, people still gotta heal. Then we go through great and starting to focus everybody and realize, oh, it's focusing of the eyes, no, it's focusing of attention, you're almost there, and all the way up to Ericsson, who starts really directive and then begins to just talk fluff. You sit there, you talk fluff, stand there, realize the personification of all those understandings you used to have before you came out of that, recognize the depth of that trans. Can't you now? That's right, and everyone just goes, Wah, but we go even further. Like my thing is mindscaping. So we show people how to get the unconscious mind to give you the key to their problem. We don't think that we don't make up metaphors, the unconscious gives it to you to solve it. Yes, then you go even further. And you got my friend Richard Hill, who's just doing his PhD and mirroring hands, where there's almost nothing happens, and you just look at your hands and then things start going out, the person's eyes closed, their hands are moving, and he just goes, mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh-huh. And I wonder if the person gets healed and cured from deep down stuff. Yes. And he's done almost nothing. And I so applaud that as the next generation.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. It's funny because you mentioned that earlier about it, it might not be the tool.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We all try to trademark this tool, but that's not it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Tool's a good band.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. You know, we want our sledgehammer, you know, the million dollar sledgehammer.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Freaking amazing, man.

SPEAKER_00

All right.

SPEAKER_01

So it's exciting. It's exciting. Are you are you giving me hypno thoughts?

SPEAKER_00

Uh no. Actually, I was I was actually thinking about volunteering. I think that would be fun. Just go hang around and just hold a sign.

SPEAKER_01

I love what you reduce it to. That's freaking hilarious. Just hang around and hold a sign. There were Nazis who did that. I was like, that's not a good thing to connect. There are there are people from millions of different isms who just hung around and held signs. Yeah, yeah. But the but the bottom line is, yeah, if you're a hypnothout, that'd be freaking amazing, man.

SPEAKER_00

But then you look at Tony Robbins, right? He's just sweeping.

SPEAKER_01

And people hang around and hold signs. Exactly. Exactly. I saw him in Toronto years ago, went for 7 a.m. saying, and that's how I heard about NLP for the first time. It was freaking amazing.

SPEAKER_00

All right. So now we're touching on isn't she because it's like full circle. You talk about NLP, sure, Todd James. You talked about healing your your fingers. And now we're talking about Tony Robbins, where he is in San Diego, I think it was 83-ish, maybe. Maybe that was too early for him. Maybe two thousand. I don't know the date. But he did a firewalking thing. Yeah. Where 300 people off the stage, he did a basic an hour talk, hypnosis, right? Hypnosis programmed their brains and said, come down here, walk on the coals, and your feet won't be burned.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So where's the cutoff of miracles?

SPEAKER_01

Well, we have the laden frost effect there. The laden frost effect is if you drop water on a hot burner, it'll go. People have a layer of sweat. And as long as they're doing three steps, they're fine. But there's not a firewalker in the world who will do it on stainless steel. It's like their feet will be left behind. You know, nobody will do it. It's not that there's something miraculous about being on the fire. And of course, they're ready with hoses and stuff, which is good. But it's the fact that the mirror, the amazing thing to me is that he's enable to get people able to get people into a state where they will do that and walk and get that result. Because anybody could do it in theory, but they won't. But he can get them in the zone where they're yes, and walk this. And it's like, and that's a breakthrough. You know what I mean? It's a breakthrough for people because metaphorically, I'm taking no shots at it. Metaphorically, if they overcome that, it's it's what it's saying to them, what else can you do that you have never thought you could do? What else? The metaphor is amazing. It's just freaking amazing.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. So what else? We talked about you healed your fingers. We talked about kids.

SPEAKER_01

I had a client when I was a therapist. I said from 1993 to 2000. Great place, right on Lake Ontario in Toronto, upscale place. Made it really difficult for people to see me so that I got people at threshold. I they wanted to change.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, so they had to fight for it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I had to fight for that spot. And then I knew I got people who wanted to change. I mean, some therapists, God, God bless them, they say, Well, I worked to get people to threshold. I never did. Because, and the reason why is not mean, it's because there's so many people who are at threshold and ready to change. Let's process them. Why should I waste time trying to convince somebody else to want to change? So, but I had a kid come in and he had a uh a wart on his hand. So human papillomavirus, they'd use salicylic acid, it came back. They'd burned it with whatever they use, it came back. Yeah, and the kid was it was like a little above the edge, it freaked him out. And I said, What are you into? And he said, I like knights and armor and dragons. I said, Me too. I said, I don't like Star Wars, I don't like sci-fi. He said, Neither do I. Kid's like, What night? I said, I like swords and hacking. He said, Yeah, I said, Let me tell you a story. And I slowed down and told the story about these knights in armor in this town, and this evil group had built a freaking awful looking tower. I'm describing the warp without saying it. And they tried everything, they attacked it with their swords, it didn't work, and they threw burning oil on it, and it was still there. Yeah, and then one day they put their horses, they put ropes around it, and they pulled it down, pulled it out of the ground, and it just dried up and disappeared. And seven, eight days later, the kid's wart dries up and disappears. Now we've known for a hundred years that this will work. But the question is, Ryan, yeah, how are we doing this? It we cannot say, as we initially thought, that we are switching the global immune system because the global immune system, you can actually say these three warts will disappear and you'll still have these, and you will. Like, how can that happen? So the belief is that you're actually cutting off the blood supply of the capillaries, just I say capillaries, I'm British, cutting off the capillary blood supply to that wart. And in days it dries up and dies. And it's my niece is a naturopathic physician. Yeah, she's one IQ point smarter than me, which pisses me off. She always rubs it in, smarter than you, Uncle Mike. I said, Yeah, but I can still beat you in the octagon. And my wife says, You can't threaten your niece with physical violence. Well, she's making fun of me. So here's what she did. She wrote a pair of twins. One had a bad wart. Yeah. And she gave her a brand new sparkly pencil from Costco, whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Said this has magic in it to get rid of warts. Touch it. This is a magic one. Touch it, make the magic go in. Kid does. She spends the time, builds a rap part. Now break the wand so the power can't come back in. And she does. Eight days later, the wart dries up, falls off. Again, same thing, you know? Yeah. It's we mobilize this sort of defense, which it's astonishing. It's this is the new medicine. We we integrate this with holistic medicine, with allopathic medicine. And we all work together to make people happy and well.

SPEAKER_00

And I love that you don't have to visualize it, like you don't have to see the cells working. Yeah. You can have knights, you can, as you with your fingers, have firefighters, little tiny firefighters marching with your finger. And I love that it works even with this fantasy that's it, man.

SPEAKER_01

And dude, you nailed it because Dr. John Grinder said the test of a model is its effectiveness. That's the only test. Does it work?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay. Speaking of models, I know you're big on. Well, the I was thinking, how do I ask this question? What is the one type of therapy that always works? And why is it ego states?

SPEAKER_01

Well, any therapy that works is dealing with ego states. There's no question about it. The subpersonalities, yeah. We all have 50 to 150 different ones. Yeah. And I have an ego state that I play with when I play with my Egyptian Mao cat. That's not the ego state I want front and center when I'm doing British jujitsu and neck cranking some guy and driving him through the mat because it'll kill me if I'm, oh, your day's got ego states that tell us it's time to go to bed. We're tired. We've got ego states that tell us we're hungry. And we've been building these since childhood. And they're not, here's the key thing, bro. They're not psychological constructs. These are burned-in neural pathways. And we brought in Gordon Emerson, Dr. Gordon Emerson, psychologist. He's American living in Australia, the world's living authority on ego states and subpersonalities. It went from Paul Fidarin through Freud to Watkins and Watkins, and Emerson is the best. And I said to him, Dr. Emerson, I used to say that it seems like a lot of things are ego state problems, subpersonalities. Then I started saying it seems like most things are ego state problems. Said, now it seems like everything is an ego state problem. And he said, Correct. Yeah. Because this is what we see with hypnotists. They take someone who's got a problem, they bring them in. Or let's say we we have somebody who wants to quit smoking and they phone in. I gotta quit, I gotta quit. My brother died of a heart attack. My dad died of cancer. I gotta quit. Okay, I can put you in in two weeks. Can you get me in soon? I'm gonna die. Yeah, I'll get you in as soon as I can. So then the person comes in and you say, So you want to quit smoking? And they go, I I think I do. Yes. You got a different ego state showed up than the one who made a call. And it's like you've got a phobia of snakes, and you send your sister for the therapy and wonder why you're still scared of snakes. Yeah, gotta get the right one executive connected to the prefrontal cortex. When that one is alive and active, that's when we solve problems.

SPEAKER_00

And I wonder what your thoughts are with other models of ego states such as internal family system.

SPEAKER_01

From what I know about internal family systems, the only thing I have, it's not a problem with it, but a question that we can assign different roles to ego states rather than just accepting the ones that are there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that was my question. And in in the form of can we create a new ego state? One that would be a good idea.

SPEAKER_01

They typically are yeah, typically created in childhood to meet specific needs. And I can remember I skipped grade four, I went from three to five. I was straight A's and everything, almost 100% everything, put in a mixed five, six class, expected to work at grade six level now by a psychotic teacher, literally. Um, so I've gone from grade three to six, from carrying a teddy bear to carrying a three-ring binder, and he made my life a living hell. And I remember thinking at the time, and this created an ego state. I remember thinking one day I'm gonna get so strong and tough and so freaking smart, nobody can ever do this to me again. And that's what I did. At some point, I became you know third-degree black belt in British Jiu Jitsu, and taught police and soldiers and everything, and and made a point of getting smarter and like worked at it, not not just what happened. But that was an ego state decision at a very early age, and it changed everything, right?

SPEAKER_00

And I'm divided here because one part of me is remembering your your Mandel. Yeah, your Mandel trilogy. The is it the third one where you talk about that incidence, the your childhood uh Randall Show? Yes, what was that? The third part of the trilogy. I have no recollection of that, Yana. I just have to say that trilogy is amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Like thanks, man.

SPEAKER_00

I I've listened probably to Journey to the Castle probably a hundred times, and I still cannot remember certain parts.

SPEAKER_01

It just that's cool because you know what, bro? It actually affects me the same way, and I built it. And we're now going, I I've got it three-quarters written, the next one, Whitechapel, and which is all the Ripper murders in London, England in the 1880s, 1880s, and how that can be used to create new powerful states for people now. And so I'm gonna it's gonna be that. You just said it.

SPEAKER_00

You just said create new powerful states. So that's why I'm wondering with ego states. Can you just create a new powerful state?

SPEAKER_01

It's not creating a new ego ego state, it's getting in each ego state will have a level of integration or not. Okay, and that's that's the John Grinder thing. Breathing changes our state, it puts us in a more powerful state, regardless of which one it is, which is why breathing's found in Qigong and Tai Chi and Yoga and all these things, even boxers. They you gotta breathe into it if you're gonna get it. Yeah, right. And it's a never ending fascination.

SPEAKER_00

You seriously, like we could go. On for days on this. And it's funny how it loops back to talking about that study with the ER doctor. Matching the breathing of the patient heals the patient.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Because you have a person who is already functional offering something back. So this is this is a chain of excellence. This is John Grinder. Our day-to-day life, our performance in anything is governed by the state we're in. So if we're in a weak, disempowered state, we're not going to do well at something. But if we change the state, then we change our performance. But how do we change the state? Well, if we change our physiology, if we stand taller, move more freely, relax, our state changes. But what's above that? And the highest level is breathing. When we change our breathing, we change the performance, we change everything. And that's one of the wonderful things. Why when I teach hypnosis, we teach when they're doing the clothes, when they're bringing someone out of a deep trance.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Have them breathe it in and say, breathe in all those wonderful changes, the empowerment you found because you're an amazing person. And that cemented it. Lots of concrete and slaves.

SPEAKER_00

Breathe it in. It's funny. I as many times as I've heard you use those lines, I have totally forgotten to use them myself. I know, I know, right? So what is there a limit?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, there is. But I like what Richard Bandler said. We don't know what the limits are. So let's pretend there aren't any. We'll know when we hit them. If we aim for the moon, we'll maybe hit the moon. If we aim for the sun, pretend there's no limits and see what happens.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Me too, bro. Me too.

SPEAKER_00

In just a moment, uh, we'll have our guest Mike Mendel here do a little hypnotic trance for everyone. But before we get there, I'm wondering, Mike, do you have anything in your heart that you want to share with the whole world? A message.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it's incumbent upon all of us to do the self-work. None of us ever arrived this side of heaven or whatever we happen to believe. None of us have got it all together, including me. But it's incumbent upon us to do the self-work, to become the best clean vessels we can, because then we're able to help people to the utmost. And it was the jewel song, in the end, only kindness matters. It's true, isn't it? If we can be kind to other people and help them get rid of their stuff and their pain, there's no greater blessing. None at all.

SPEAKER_00

That's so beautiful. It's hypnotic in itself. So all right. So everyone that's listening, watching, if you're driving and watching, you shouldn't be. But anyhow, just take a moment to protect yourself and be aware of your surroundings. Allow yourself to just be with this moment as Mike takes it away now.

SPEAKER_01

And as you sit there or lie there, or even stand there, there's a simplicity to the action that we as humans can take in that which we need, and nothing less than that. Because you know, I mean, you really know at a deep level what you need and what you want. But the question arises if you are able to pass that on in a way that is glanative and not just superficial, but intelligent, how deep can you go now to strengthen yourself, to become that new walking superpower? Because if we care about each other, and you do, care about you care about you and the others, if you recognize that, we become one. There is an interesting integration of all of us that becomes a force to be reckoned with. And if you really want to make yourself that which you can be anything, will you do it? And will you do it now? And will you lay aside the cost that not only intensifies the perfection of who you can be once you integrate the changes, is it useful enough to then make those changes? But brilliantly so, unconsciously, below the surface, where you don't even have to think about it. You don't have to do anything at all. And that's the wonder and the beauty of this. Because just by listening now, you and your unconscious and I are connected, and my intention for you is noble and pure. And I want you to be the best human being you can be. And my hope and power and prayer is that you transform yourself as I continue to transform myself, and we reach out, using the powers we develop to bring love and understanding and kindness in a terribly suffering world. And as you go deeper and recognize not only the understandings that you have developed, but the powers you have not yet integrated. There's no reason to do anything less than feel who you are and absorb who you can be, which leads to who you will be, which is entirely who you are. Because you, whether I've met you or not, are my friend, my brother, my sister, and I send you my thoughts of understanding, nurturing and wellness, which in the depth of your being will build you to be who you can be because you will never stop learning. You will never stop growing. You're not that kind of person to let go of the past, let go of resentment, let go of everything that prevents you from being that force for good that you deep down know you can be and are. And the second vitally important thing is when you reach this sort of empowerment, you'll extend it outwardly with goodness and wholeness and a sense of humor as well. Because if something's not fun, it's not worth doing. And the third important thing is how surprised will you be when you discover you've already forgotten the first important thing consciously but not unconsciously. Because the program's run and the depth you attain is commensurate with who you are. You are a vehicle of love, change and empowerment. Go and live it. And on the count of five, you can come all the way back to now and notice how good you feel. One can easily come back to the surface three times better than before we began and be wide awake on five now.

SPEAKER_00

Boom. Amazing. So good. Thank you so much for being here with us, Mike. Absolutely pleasure. And if anyone wants to go train and learn hypnosis, NLP, uh brain software, so much learning could be done at the Mike Mandel Hypnosis Academy. I highly recommend it. Thanks again, Mike.

SPEAKER_01

Bless you, my dear friend. We'll meet again soon.