Lance Baker: Beyond Hypnosis and into the Branches of Healing

In this episode of AWAKEN with Ryan DeJonghe, Ryan connects with Lance Baker, a multi-modality healer and teacher based in Australia. Lance shares his journey from traditional hypnotherapy to developing a broader, more holistic approach that incorporates elements of Qi Gong, energy work, and ancestral healing.

The conversation focuses on Lance’s "Branches of Healing" philosophy, where he emphasizes that the mind is only one part of the recovery process. Lance explains how he uses "Akasha Talks" to bridge the gap between logical, scientific understanding and the more intuitive, spiritual aspects of healing. They dive into the importance of body awareness, the role of the nervous system in trauma, and why Lance believes that true transformation often requires stepping outside the clinical room and into the natural flow of life.

Key Takeaways & Meaningful Quotes

• "I stopped calling myself just a hypnotist when I realized that the body often remembers what the mind has worked very hard to forget. You have to work with both if you want the change to stick."
• "Healing isn't about fixing something that's broken; it's about clearing the static so you can hear your own internal guidance again. We are all just trying to get back to our natural state of flow."
• "If you only talk to the conscious mind, you're just rearranging the furniture. When you work with the energy of the person, you're actually changing the foundation of the house."

How to Connect and Work with Us

Connect with Lance Baker: Lance offers clinical sessions, online workshops, and deep-dive training into Qi Gong and advanced healing modalities.

• Branches of Healing: branchesofhealing.com.au
• YouTube (Akasha Talks): youtube.com/@LanceBaker

Work with Ryan DeJonghe: Ready to explore your own transformation through hypnosis?

• Website: trancewell.help
• Email: ryan@trancewell.help

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hey everybody, thank you so much for being here. I don't know why you keep tuning in, but you do, you must like something. So I really appreciate you being here with us today. And today we have a very special guest with us, Lance Baker. That's why you're here. You're here for Lance. Welcome, Lance. Thank you. Yeah. All right. So my introduction to you. I, you know, we've seen each other in the communities, uh, hip hypnosis communities, and I was like, who's this Lance Baker guy? And I'm like scrolling down your page, and you're doing this cool thing with like moving a little circular thing with like just you know what I mean? Like, I remember doing that before, like I would fold a card and put it on a pin, and then with my hands, try to move the card just with energy. So what's going on there?

SPEAKER_02 0:55

The telekinesis thing. Um yeah, that that was just me promoting somebody else. Like, I've got a class on here next weekend. Uh, we're back doing some telekinesis training. Uh, I hadn't played with that sort of stuff in years. Um, but yeah, uh you can use G to like manipulate things to like yeah, spin a wheel. Or uh what I used to really play with it was like making clouds disappear.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yes. And this is comes to me from that movie, which was a book, which is based off the US military. And the movie is called The Minute Stare at Goats.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah. And George Clooney was in there. I think Brad Pitt was there too, and they would do cloud bursting.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

And our military, the US military, paid for for people to sit and try to do this, just stare at clouds and yeah. All right. So, what's that mean to you? Like, so you you did that at one point. I mean, I want to get to hypnosis because that's your bread and butter. I mean, your whole for those listening, Lance has it reminds me of the library I used to go to when I was growing up. And there would just be a whole army of books, and I never could read them all. And that's what's behind Lance. And he was saying most of these ones over his left shoulder, like all hypnosis. I even know there's that many hypnosis. So, yeah, we'll touch about hypnosis. So, tell us a little bit about cloud bursting, just because I'm curious now.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Um, so I was I've been given an audiobook of um of uh Bill Bankston, who does this energy healing process that was curing cancer. Um and so it his his study reminded me of the one you were talking about uh with uh Rowan uh of curing mice. Uh yeah he'd eject mice with cancer and like they'd heal them and um and go on. And so I was learning about that. And he was in this audiobook, it was a very story-based uh audiobook, not just like a here's how you do my process. He's talking about where he first learned it was with this like psychic guy who he met in the park to like talk about different stuff. Uh guy just told him to pick the cloud, and he picked a cloud and made that disappear. Uh and I listened to it and I I paused it because I was having like a like fun.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, like what's going on here? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

And I did the Wilhelm Reich stuff before about Organite and Orgon Energy, and he did the cloud busting, but he had like the big cannons that did it that were like uh with the organite in the bottom, and that would make clouds disappear. And yeah, he comes.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

This is like David Copperfield, there's a gag behind it when he did it.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Uh well, this wasn't a gag. This was this was a psychiatrist who like was into energy and like doing weird experiments, and he just got shut down by the FDA.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Um, and that's what Oh, I thought you meant he had some kind of device.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Yeah, he had a device. It's like a literal canon sort of thing. Uh, but I was like, well, he was doing that with Organite, so he was using Qi to to bust the clouds, so that must be what this guy's doing. And that was all the line said. So like I'm driving from Melbourne to Newcastle, which is like a 12-hour drive.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, I'm like, where's some clouds? Plenty of clouds, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Where's some clouds? And there's like one off to my uh my uh right, so I'm like trying to drive or like busting this cloud and it disappeared. I'm like, wow, but I was like, there was one cloud in the sky, it could have dissipated, and so like halfway on my drive, I spot some more clouds, and they're over that side again. But I I pull over and there's like six clouds, and I pick one and I make it disappear. And I pick a different one, I make it disappear, and I get rid of all of them in the order that I wanted. I'm like, this is surely this is real. I'm like, call one of my mate someone like come out the back and do this thing. So he gets out the back, he does the thing, and he's like, It worked. Uh, and then I was doing stuff where like we'd cut shapes into them and stuff like that, and like we'd make a circle appear in the middle of a cloud.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Oh man, that's fun.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

The new Mario movies out. Maybe you can like do Mario and Peach and Bowser in the clouds.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

I didn't get that great with shapes, it was more like it would take three minutes to cut a gigantic circle in the middle of a cloud.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Uh that's pretty cool, man.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

An inorganic shape like Mario. Yeah, I don't think I could do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Maybe I it's like when my daughter was growing up, she's like, Dad, can you make me a Mickey Mouse pancake? And I even failed at that. I couldn't do three circles, you know. Like all right, so were you doing hypnosis before that? Because you've been doing hypnosis for a long time now.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Yeah, yeah. This was before that I was uh I can't remember if I was studying or teaching down in Melbourne uh at that time for for when I did it. Um I think I was still studying at that stage. Uh I think that's when I was doing my advanced diploma.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

And how did you get in it into hypnosis?

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Uh kind of by accident. Um I was doing I'd learnt Reiki and was doing that. Um and with the Reiki stuff, my Reiki 2 teacher was a hypnotherapist, and she's pulled me aside and was asking me how I was putting these people into trance. And why was I doing hypnosis at the Reiki class? Sort of thing. You didn't even know you're doing it, you're just he's he's just falling asleep because he's like relaxed, and she like had one of those big Tibetan balls, and she's like sat it on his stomach and went. He's like hasn't moved, and she's like, if he was asleep, that would wake him up, and then she's gone and done it. Interesting. Yeah, she's like, He's he's tranced out. Wow, oh and then I just like gave him a gentle tap on the shoulder and like told him to wake up. Just well, uh, and so um I was like, Well, I've got to learn hypnosis then because I was paranoid I was gonna do something wrong with hypnosis. Um I went to learn hypnosis, uh, and I was lucky the the guy who I picked to learn off was the only guy in Australia that taught mesmerism. And on the last day of the class, he demonstrated mesmerism, and like that's that's what I've been doing, that's the thing. And so the that inspired me to like keep going with it, and um it just got addictive.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah, I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

The more you do, the more questions you have.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Exactly. It's like every day I wake up, it's like, wait a second, you know, like like the cloud person, like wait a second, you're just a normal dude, you're calling your buddies over, and your buddies come over and they're like, Oh yeah, it works. Yeah, what else is possible?

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Exactly. That's that's the bit I got out of it is like, well, there's too much that we don't know. I don't know what the rules for life are.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Right, there's no real instruction manual.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Yeah, and uh things are looser than we feel they are, definitely looser than what we're taught they are.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

So what what kind of things did you so you learn hypnosis, this mesmerism. So then where from there? Did you find people that wanted to do it with you, or did you go to your like your Reiki clientele and be like, oh, by the way, now I know what I'm actually doing?

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Uh well, it's a slow process. Um, so at that time I had a Reiki clinic that I was like practicing Reiki professionally. So I had my clients that I could say, look, I'm learning this thing while we're doing this. Like, if I notice you're in a certain state, you want me to try something? Uh and that's where I first started was like waiting for them to get in trance from the Reiki, and then like I'd put some stuff in there for whatever like yeah, mental-based issues they were having, and was getting some success, and then um then some of them I was like, Well, I'm I'm still learning this process of how to do inductions as well. Like, instead of just waiting for this to happen, can you stay back for like an extra half hour? And like I practiced this thing with you and like trance, give you an experience, bring you out, uh, and so uh did that for a little while with them. Um and then yeah, just slowly evolved into like me doing sessions and doing horribly with like my first year of practicing hypnosis, I think is is terrible, like atrocious. Uh the the second year uh I was doing hypnosis well, I think. Like I was doing good trance work, but my therapeutic work was not amazing. My therapeutic work really changed after after mentoring with Bob Burns. Uh I got asked to bring him out to to teach from the the school I was learning at. Uh and I was like, Well, if I'm gonna bring him here, I want to like at least have the basics of his process. And so I like got his DVD and watched that, learn how to do the swan. And then I was just like, everybody I meet, I'm gonna swan. I'm gonna like get good at this. Yeah, I'll meet this guy so I can get the most out of like this experience with him. And so I just went and swanned everybody, like everybody I met. I was like, Do you want to experience something? Put your arm up like this, like let's go. Um from that, having that two-way interaction constantly with the unconscious, that changed things. Uh, that really helped us up, give me some understanding of uh how our consciousness works. And uh, I made a lot of mistakes still with that of like, oh yeah, here's this, that means that boom, I've got it. Yeah, that works for that person. So universal thing, and uh, it's just starting to like notice how much individuality is is inside there and the the quirkiness and character of stuff, and then especially like once I started playing with direct voice with that and realizing there's a lot of nuance inside that's extremely different to what's coming on the average uh and how some of that really matches what people's inner dialogue is like. Uh, like the first the first woman I did direct voice with, uh, she was a child psychologist. And back then I was like I I hadn't studied with Bob yet, so I didn't know like he's actually no, I had studied with Bob, but I was I was doing his process differently, like he does like a knee tap thing to to start to like knock on the door, sort of thing. Um and I was doing a while talking to their unconscious, I I had my hand on them, and while not, I'd take it off to talk to the person who was using that button as a an on-off switch, uh, because I was doing energy healing at the same time to to blend like that's brilliant. I love that. Do healing on the issue and I'll let go. Uh and like as soon as I bought this voice out within this this woman, really nice child psychologist, like really pleasant mannered and nice. Yeah, uh, I got flagged off with the C after it. Probably won't say that. That might be too much for your audience to hear. Uh, and I don't know, it's like straight away, I like took my hand off and was like, whoa, wasn't expecting that. And she's like, Oh, oh, sorry, I I I never talked to anybody like that. This is weird. I'm like, Do you do you want to continue? She's like, I'm really curious now, and so like we're like, it was just nasty as towards me and would swear constantly towards me. And it was like the third or fourth time I took my hand off, she's like, every time she apologized, but the third or fourth time, she's like, This is this is insane. She's like, I would never talk to anybody like this.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

But this is exactly how I talked to that's the voice inside, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, yeah. In a dialogue that would talk to her that was actually out talking to me, and uh right, so that was really interesting to like have this out of like four-hour negotiation with heart, uh, but I I didn't get anywhere. I didn't really get uh one baby step towards the goal uh in this first thing, but it really helped me to start to go there's a lot else happening in here, and all this engagement with the the unconscious helped give me a better pattern of yeah of how diverse things are inside, and like like I said, like the more you do, the more questions you have. So, like I have a question, uh I'd like I've mentored with a bunch of people, so I'd call them up and I'd ask them things about it, or I'd hit the library and like talk to the ghost of hypnosis past in a sense to go what did what did they experience with stuff like this? What were their views? Yeah, stuff like this to try and fill those those gaps of what it is, and um I don't I like I still think I'm a novice, like it's I I I don't even presume to understand how consciousness works yet, right? Uh right. Uh yet I can create some change with things, but like there's there's this woman years ago that uh I find hilarious. Like she she'd been seeing the psychologist for years for this issue, she wasn't getting any traction on it out for a bunch of issues, and and she came to me about this one thing, and like in I can't remember if it was one or two sessions. It's two sessions, one session like got her like really good with the change of the thing, and then the second session just completely undone it. Like, she couldn't leave a house, she couldn't like smell things like if people had perfume on, like she'd like her body would break down and stuff like that. Like she had extreme sensitivities, uh, and it just wiped it, helped her okay with it. And this psych was amazed, and he like referred dozens of people to me because I was this miracle worker. Uh he even said wife to me, but then the the same lady had this other issue. There was something simple that I've helped heaps of people with before. Yeah, I think I did 15 sessions with her trying to shift this thing. Nothing, nothing. I'm like, yeah, miracle in one aspect, the basic thing I can't do for right, and in between those like 15 odd sessions I did with her, I would have helped 20 people out with the same issue. Right. What the hell is going on here?

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Yes, that's the question I'm chasing, brother, because it's like I used to do street hypnosis, and the videos I post on social media were always the ones that were like, oh my god, so great, you know. I I don't post the 95% that just it doesn't work, you know, and I only post the ones that are like glorious. And then I and then I look back at the Bible. I used to be a preacher, and then I'm like, you know, I think that's the same for the Bible. Like, there's a lot missing about this man we call Jesus. There's a lot not included there, a lot of missing verses and stuff. And so I think we just have his greatest hits, you know, like the miracle worker. We always think we want to be a miracle worker, and then and then stuff like this, you know, it's like, okay, it worked this time. Why doesn't it work this time?

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Yeah, yeah. Uh the Jesus complex is something I've joked about a few times. It happens to everybody in this field. Like my first pain client with Reiki walked out carrying crutches. She still had a shattered hip. Like it didn't change the problem, it just took away the pain and gave mobility. Um, I had to keep doing healings on her for like three months or something.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Uh, but that first night when that happened, I walked up going, Yeah, yeah, all this learning, all this practice finally pays off. Yeah, I finally obtained, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

And yeah, and the same sort of thing with my like I got into Reiki by healing myself. Um, and was something like I'd seen some amazing doctors uh that couldn't do a thing to help this problem I had, and then in a week and a half I healed with Reiki. So uh a few moments I've had along the path of been like, yeah, I'm gifted. This is this is amazing, and then you get humbled quite quickly after that. Yeah, the universe.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Yeah, you talk about this mystery of the universe, and I feel that the one thing we may actually know about the universe is that it has a sense of humor. It does, it does.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

So I find approaching that with humility seems to work really well. Like it will help me out more when I say I don't have the answers, and I'm I'll play and explore uh and see what happens. Uh and that curiosity really uh works in my favor anyway. Uh for different uh and then if you're approaching something with curiosity and it doesn't work, then you still learn something. So right.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Well, and then what do you do when the client, like in Bob Burns' case, he's like, Okay, people come to me for hypnosis, and for those that doesn't work in, and then it turns to therapy, you know. It's like it's still like it's like I don't know how you feel like the client comes, and that's the part I kind of sometimes struggle with, like you know, certain things we can do really well, like phobias, anxieties, stuff like that. That's just you know, that but the other things like that seem miraculous is I'm very curious about if we can, like you said, approach it with curiosity. I don't know, but I believe it could work. You know, no promises. And then so how do you charge for that? That's the thing. Like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to help you or not, because we're so used to like I pay you, I get this back. You know, like if I'm saying I don't know if I can deliver your results, so what do you do?

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Well, you've um you've been to a doctor before, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Right. That's that's a good analogy. As soon as you went down that path, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, they don't have a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Guarantees uh they've got like this is what we think could work, these are the things that could go wrong. Uh, do you want to buy in? Uh right. When everything else is terrible, you'd like, absolutely, uh, I want to try this thing. Like, I doctor shopped all over the place when I was going through chronic pain. Like, I saw everybody out of the son that I could, desperate that they would fix things, uh, and they couldn't. And like, I didn't sue any of them, I didn't get any money back. One of them saved my problem. Uh, I still didn't sue him. So yeah, uh, and and like Bob says, like, therapy's got to be part of it uh as well. So like I have I have hypnosis tools, I have energy healing tools, I have NLP tools, I have psychology tools, and like I'll mix them all together, and like yeah, what what one's gonna work. If if if this tool's not working, then I'll pick up another one. Uh yeah, try that and see where we go. Um, and originally that wasn't the thing. Like I said, like I'd done energy healing, was accidentally doing hypnosis, so I better learn how to do hypnosis so I don't do it wrong. The first day of the class, the guy's like, I'm here to teach you hypnosis. Like somebody asked a question about hypnotherapy, and he's like, You get a certificate of hypnosis here. You don't get a certificate of hypnotherapy. I'm not teaching you therapy, I'm teaching you hypnosis. You want to learn therapy? Go study counseling. So I had to go study counseling. Uh so you get different pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, and you've got to work out how to put them together. I uh I treat what I do more. Like Lego, you could probably see Lego in the background there. Yeah, Lego. Lego. Uh with Lego, you you buy the pieces. You can follow the instructions and build the thing, or you can pull it apart and you can build whatever you like. Uh you've got to have different tools. I've studied under lots of different opposing hypnotherapists of like how they work to get the gold from one, the gold from another, to work at how they fit together and experiment with that. And I find that helps, and that's my continual thing. Like I'm flying backwards and forwards to Melbourne every few weeks at the moment, studying with somebody uh to to get an extra edge on what and I would presume that's going to be the case like a couple of decades from now. I'll still hope I'll be like looking for people to to pick their mind and yeah, grab another Lego piece to add to the kit to see what else we can build.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

That's beautiful. I love that description of it. It's like art. And then as you're talking, I was thinking those there's these certain Lego kits are three and one, and you decide offhand what you want to build. Like, do you want to build one, two, or three? And that's like to the client, okay, you were built this way. What way do you want to be built? And then you, as like from the Lego movie, are the master builder because you went to get all this training and you're like, Yeah, I can envision whatever you want to envision. You can help the client achieve their vision.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Yes, I I still wouldn't call myself a master builder with that, though. Like I said before, I still keep myself in novice mindset. Uh that's helpful. Like, yeah. Uh, no offense to the like greats in the industry. Um but I think the biggest downfall with hypnosis is like there's an element there of like you're gonna be the hypnotist, you've got to be like you've got to be bold and you've got to have the uh the bravado of right, I am the man, sort of thing. Right. Uh and so that that energy of of part of the history of hypnosis is has failed most people that they get to that point where they like, yeah, my thing is right. Like you're in the forums, you see how often people do it. They're the head gets so big, my thing is it. Yeah, if my thing doesn't work, nothing's gonna work, and they like fight with each other that their thing is like both of the things are great. Yeah, together they work even better, and like yeah, the that's where bothers you've lost it. You've lost your internet. Um I hope if I get to that stage, somebody's gonna come up and slap me in the face and humble me down the next day to look. Just go do this other guy's class and like sit in there and see if you can learn something. Uh and uh I can guarantee I will learn something.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Man, that's beautiful. Yeah, I I pray that more and more people in our field have that same attitude. I think that would do us all a service to have that attitude together and journey and explore together and carry us up.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Yeah, and there's there's plenty of rights that do do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Um, but yeah, there are a lot of good people just on their pedestal and yeah, the one that bothers me, I think, the most is the dude, and I'm not going to say any names here, it's our Hitnotherapy community. And you already know, you're laughing, you probably already know the name. And it's like, I said something about the subconscious, and immediately he's like, There's no such thing as the subconscious. I'm like, wait a second, we're on the hit no therapy board. Like, why are you even talking like that? Like, just yeah, it's a metaphor. Let's just use it. You know, let's if it helps the client to believe in puff the magic dragon, then by God, puff the magic dragon exists, and it's gonna blow his magical smoke all over you and cure you of every disease you ever have, or any ill, or any discomfort, puff the magic dragon exists, by god. You know what I mean? Like if it works, it works.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

I know who you're talking about yet. Uh I don't know. I I put a comment up once under one of these things like that, and he came back with a bunch of stuff, and I just deleted my comment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

And then and then he turns around and is like, oh, by the way, I have my course I'm selling. Yes. Anyhow, so I love how you're saying the the humility of it. And when you talk about that, it reminds me of Erickson himself. He's like the most confident and confident person around. Like, I'm not sure. But he's confident in saying that he wasn't sure. Like, I'm not sure. I'm confident that we can be curious about this now.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

Yeah, he'd play games with people that he'd like pretend like he didn't know what was going on or what would help them, and they'd walk out being like, Well, what are we gonna do next time we go see him? And their issue is gone. They're done the work while he was being the pretend bumbling idiot.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Uh that's what I want to strive to be is like I picture it as like the god Loki, you know, like you have all this power and just pretend and play and turn into a snake and make people curious, and then they walk away like what just happened, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Yeah, but Ericsson is a good example with that of like he didn't he didn't buy that story that he was the hypnosis god sort of thing. Like he would have people come and mentor under him and like sit in the room with him all the time, and he'd take those opportunities to learn from those people, like he'd ask them very open questions and get them to do things, and he'd be like, loving the show of like what's coming out uh of people stayed in staying in curiosity, uh and kept himself like like an equal with people that were looking up to him.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

I love that, man. I love that. And it makes me even so happy now that I just found out today from Scott Zanland that I'm gonna be his apprentice janitor at Hit Nath's Live. You know how his title, he's like CEO of the last janitor of Hit N the Thoughts Live. And like that's so cool. Like, I don't want his CEO title, and I want to like eventually get to the janitor title of Hit the official janitor of Hit the Thoughts Live. I think that'd be so cool, right? So you're talking about that you started out with hypnosis with mesmerism. Now, mesmerism, it seems like you kind of have to have that, you know, like that that ritual. You know, I think that's the ritual more than the confident, like the chef. There's the chess puff out, but then there's just like you know, the old shaman thing. Is that kind of what your your mesmerism training was?

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Um no, not particularly.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Oh now and okay, okay, what was it? Okay, yeah. Uh so no fog machine.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

No, no fog machine. Oh, okay, okay. So like I first studied it under Rick Collingwood. Um and he how would I phrase it? He's his term, what he would use would be like no bullshit approach. Like uh you you're doing something weird, but there's still like rules and structures to it, and he would like break it down to try and like take out the mysticism. He didn't like Reiki, tell me off for doing Reiki. Uh soft, fancy shit, and stuff like that. Uh interesting. So Reiki's the soft approach, mesmerism is the tough bravado approach. You're like you're bullying that energy out of somebody, and you're energetically bullying somebody into a trance in a in a sense, uh, with his way, with his way of doing it. Right, right, the only way, but that was the main way he taught me with that. And so it's it's using energy healing, but being tough with it and being commanding with it. Um, and that's that's essentially the the main gist of the story with that. Um the original like mesmerism books from back in the day and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Uh and so uh different things with that, but they're still formulaic. Like uh in lockdown, I worked with like a French-Canadian guy and like translated uh uh the main text that was used in 1919, uh of uh 1818 of um of mesmerism and um it was just like a 12-step process and like very formular of how to position your body, how to position theirs, where to move your hands, and the thing happens. Uh so the mesmerism and hypnosis are two completely different things. Uh the only similarity is trans happens, but like I do trans hypnosis, like maybe one in ten people that come see me, if that. Uh so when you compare what hypnotic work I do to mesmerism, there's not really much in the way of comparison there of what's happening. Unless you go to that bridging point. So, like Mesmer just did silence, like he just did his thing, and people would shake and twitch and jolt and have orgasms and whatever, and like be healed, uh, or be a little bit more healed. Uh and one of the like I I explored a lot of things with like translation of old books in in lockdowns because it was boring. Uh and one of the things I found a quote where Mesmo like he had direct voice stuff happening, and he's like, ignore the oracle, like just do the thing. And so he'd had the unconscious coming out and was just like, I'm not, I'm not going there. That's like not my thing. Uh, but then Mikey De Poissiga, uh the one of the next generation of animal magnetists, he did it on this process with with this boy and like turn around and asked his mom a question, and the boy answered in a different voice. So like Victor Race, this kid, he was like he was on a cognac plantation, like he just was a little kid that picked grapes, like he had no education. Uh, he had some trauma stuff happening there, so he had like a stutter and everything. But when he was in the the mesmeric trance, he spoke with eloquence. There was no stutter, he was more educated. Uh really interesting. And so Puesiga had these conversations with the other within Victor Race, uh, and found out how to heal him and and all the rest. From there, they started the Symnambulist movement. Uh, Mesma didn't like it because like they were talking to the Oracle, and he's like, That's that's not my thing. Uh, they stopped doing animal magnetism when they started engaging in in the conversation. And like all of psychology and hypnosis evolved from that moment, really, not from Mesma. So it wasn't the trance that was the thing, it was this engagement with the unconscious that like began the hypnosis movement. And uh that I think is very close to what I'm doing, uh, as more the poison stuff. So I'll use energy to get energetic healing happening, but I'm doing the more engaging with the unconscious, whether I've got trance there or not. Right. Right. Uh but there was a guy I found, I forget his name now. Um I have to look that up now. I spent ages reading his stuff. Uh I found a thing where this guy was doing idiomotor work before the term idio motor had even been like coined with mesmerism. So he was like he was doing uh so like I translated the stuff of like this these letters he had backwards and forwards uh with with uh Elliotson. And he just mesmerized the lady's leg, she had a neutrophic leg, couldn't like move or do anything. Uh and so he's he'd been a doctor before and then he'd studied medicine and he'd like remembered this client that he couldn't heal when he was a doctor. And so now he's a mesmerist, he's like, I want to see if this thing works with that woman I couldn't like fix anything with. And so he's doing like mesmerism on this this lady's leg, and uh knee just twitches that he thought something right and he's like that's weird, it's like it answered me, and then it didn't do like three twitches left and right, and he's like, Are you and and this is all in his head, uh only in a dialogue while he's doing energy on this lady, and he's like, Yeah, are you answering me? And it went three left right again. He's like, Okay, can you show me how you'd say yes? And it did three left again, and he's like, Can you show me no and did three up and downs? And he's like, Oh bullshit. Wow. And so we had this like conversational engagement with her, and like got there, and then he took it to an idiocognitive thing, again, using terms that weren't there then. Uh great, great. He asked it, could it give her a thought about like what's what's the thing? And she heard the little voice in her head say this thing, and she repeated that to him and like did some of that stuff, and it didn't take long that that just switched in direct voice, and uh this this thing was communicating through her. Uh, he called it Holy Guardian Angel. Uh but his questioning with that was very leading. Uh unconscious could very much fit with Holy Guardian Angel, like it was sure. So don't get lost on on that term. Uh, it's not like he was speaking to an angel. It could have been, but right, it fits. Yeah. But uh, so he had engagements with this lady about this stuff, and he healed a leg uh from doing the processes that this voice told her of what would would heal it. Uh, and so his letters were all about like I'm doing this without the trance, like the whole body's not involved. This is just a leg, and then it was just like these yes no's through the knee, and then it was these thoughts, and there's this direct voice, and then he was able to get the direct voice happening without doing any mesmerism things happening, we just get the switch point happening and have this engagement. And so this guy like broke all of the rules of hypnosis before the term hypnosis was even put out there. That uh the questions we're coming back to now. Like, I think there's been more things forgotten with hypnosis than right we actually comprehend now.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Like, yeah, it's becoming more focused, it all looks the same, especially now that AI is out and it just it seems like it's cookie cutter. A lot of like our peers just they all look the same, and it's not this dynamic thing that like you have your history that you bring into the practice, you have all your learning and you have all your your history, like you know Reiki because of your own hurting, you've tested it out yourself, and it formed who you are and how you practice, and yet now we see just this like I don't know, the Stepford wives of hypnosis.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

It is, and they've like literally had pieces of their Lego kit stolen. Uh so like like you buy one of those three and one kits, like you it said, there's certain pieces if you take out of that kit, you can't build any one of those three. Some of them there's pieces you can take out, and you can still build one or two of those sets, but just not the main one. Uh and that's what happened with hypnosis along the way. The weird bits like the energy got taken out. Uh somebody you've had on this podcast has like publicly accused me of being a fraud for doing masmerism because they think it's that much rubbish, and I just feel sorry for the guy because I'm like, Well, right, you're welcome to come sit in my chair and I'll prove it to you. But I live on the other side of the world, so that's not gonna happen. Uh, but they're just losing something that gives them an edge with that, and then because like like all the spiritualist movement and everything, that evolved out of this mesmeric thing. Like the seance meant like a sitting with a hypnotist because they'd like do this mesmeric trance on somebody, and like ghosts would speak to them.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

So yeah, and it's weird how it works, it's just it you do the steps, like you said with meserism, like the steps, and it reminds me of I was with it's funny, I had Easter dinner with two priests yesterday, and their their son is a boat, he sails boats, and they're so they're Christian, they're they're Protestant, and yet he has to follow the steps of a prayer to Poseidon. It includes like you can't say the name of the old boat. It's a change, it's a a practice of changing the name of a boat. He bought a boat and he has to change it. And so there's certain steps to this prayer of Poseidon. If you don't say it, no matter what faith you are, Christian, Buddhist, whatever, you know, if you don't say the prayer to Poseidon, there will be wreckage. And it's proven if they don't say it, boats crash. It's weird. I can't explain why it works, but you have to do it, otherwise, your boat will crash. That's just universal law.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

But I I would I would wager you could say that thing with completely different words, and you're covered.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Interesting. So just like you say it's that's funny you mention the words.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Like at the magical script, like hypnosis, like so many schools that teach you the magic.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Like it's the words versus like the there's something with moving of the body and energy, and it's yeah, but like you said, all these different faiths, they're reading this this thing, but they're like their intention inside is holy shit, Poseidon, don't kill me, please.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Yeah, okay. And that's right, that's the energy they're putting into reading that. Um Poseidon just wants that, yeah. And so maybe there's this key words in there that might be like the name Poseidon and keep me safe, uh, something like that that needs to be in there. But if you just rift that with that right feeling, I would presume it'd be the same, same thing. There's probably too much. The the bit where that would fail is you've got somebody who's sailed out to sea a thousand times and they've read their script, and you go, Look, you don't need the script, just do it this way. They're not gonna have that right feeling. It's either they're gonna be like, Oh shit, this better work. Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

That's a great analogy, yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Probably wouldn't work for them, but that happens. So, like, there's there's an interaction that's energetically happening every time I'm doing hypnosis with somebody, and if internally I'm like, Oh crap, I can't do this, that's not gonna work. Uh, but that's where that that curiosity bit comes in. Like, if I'm like, let's see what can happen, yeah, that's that's really open. Like, whatever unconsciously could happen, like if I've got this is definitely gonna happen, but it's gonna happen this way, their unconscious might not be able to do that, and so then it's gonna fail. But if we've got that open view, uh there might be six different ways that could happen. And now the unconscious can just do whatever the funnest way is with that.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

And when you're talking part of me is still stuck on the the Poseidon theory, and yet my mind I drew this little like yin-yang symbol that the Tao, because I was thinking like part of you is this Reiki energy, and then part of you is like you looked at your mesmerist training and taking these steps, and it's like you're combining, you're you're moving in the flow of whatever is present in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Yes, well, um I've stayed under a lot of different energy practitioners, like I've stayed at least a dozen Reiki Masters. Um I've done things with um other different energy healing forms and stuff as well. So I'll a lot of different exposures to it and can see the sameness and the differentness of these different approaches. Uh but with all these dozens of different energy teachers I've had, they have not been my primary teacher. Energy itself has been my primary teacher. I've learned more from playing with energy about energy than I've learnt from a human telling me how to play with energy about energy. Yeah, and the bit that freaked me out once was like before I'd heard the term mesmerism, I did this this healing uh and followed these intuitive prompts of what to do. Some of it wasn't even intuitive prompts, it was my hands moved on their own, the energy moved and did this thing. And I'm like, that's weird. What's that thing? Uh and then just Jump forward a few years, like in like a couple of years into practicing mesmerism. I'm reading this old book, and this guy describes his process. And this exact process that this guy used a few hundred years ago was the exact thing I'd intuitively done a couple of years earlier. I've just found a book that describes a process of something that's important.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

That is so trippy. That's like the most badass version of deja vu. Like it jumps generations and people, and oh yeah, it happened before.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Yeah, and so like there's different theories of what that could be, and I'm like, whatever, I don't care. Like, either the energy smart and it taught me the thing, or the ghost of that hypnotist uh was in the room with me and he showed me how to do it, or I was that guy in a past life, and so I've just got a cellular memory of it. I don't care what one of those stories it is, the thing worked. Uh, when I like got in that open space and was like, show me something magical, something magical come through. Um, that's the key bit of what matters. I've spent lots of time like trying to make each of those things uh be a thing and like control that into what I wanted to make it be, but they just hit dead ends. Where when you you be open, it just seems to flow really, really well for me anyway.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Dude, you are nailing it because I'm like when I first got into hypnosis business, like I did like I was similar to you. I did Reiki before and some of the shamanism stuff before, and stand-up comedy, another healing practice. Uh but with this hypnosis business, we're told to like again. I go to these other people, and I don't mean to down anyone, but they're like, you can make this much money in a year, you just need to do this, this, and this and go and this funnel. And then, you know, I'm like, oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense, business-wise, right? And you go in and you feel like you're striving, striving, striving, and the the goal just gets further and further away. And yet when you just say, Okay, I'll let that go, what I think I should be doing, and just like you said, let the energy guide you, and whatever it is, like I it feels like I'm being moved like a marinette now, and then all of a sudden, then the things are coming to me, like, okay, fine, I'll just dangle here and you move me, and then you give me what I want. Great.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Yeah, uh I some people that do that sort of stuff, I see good things with most I don't. Um there was there was somebody here in Australia who who was doing that sort of stuff, and like we have this thing called uh Bass with our tax. Like, there's a quarterly tax thing that like 10% of what we make goes to the government, sort of thing. And so this person was like selling their class of like their package of how to make hypnosis businesses work based on how well their hypnosis business was going. And so they like publicly showed their BAS statement on uh on Facebook, saying from my class, like this is how much my hypnotherapy business makes, like this is what I've made in the last quarter. Uh but I'd watched this person on social media for that last quarter, and I saw they were traveling the country teaching this thing, so that BAS statement was actually students, right? Not a hypnosis business, yes, and I'm like, well, that's really unethical. Like you're teaching these people you're gonna make this money, but unless they copy you and go and sell the class of how to do the business thing, they're not gonna make that money, uh, and so there's a lot of not quite transparency from some of those people of what that process is, but others are completely transparent, like um Jason Lynette does heaps of that money-based stuff, but his formula is always I'm just showing you the last step I just did. And so when he just transitioned into that, that was part of his business model of showing you how to make that money through classes, how to make the money through your business, it it mapped, and so I was like, Well, that's that's fair, but right, not all of them do that, but um this could be wrong, like this was a stat Bob gave me, like I don't know, six, seven, eight years ago. Um, but the global average of a hypnotherapist is two sessions a week, uh or it might have been a month, it was something horrendous. Like, that's the average. Uh, and so like there's full-time people like me that are like bringing that average up, and there's other people that just do them one or two people a year, uh so where that data really fits is is hard to say, but that's a pretty bad average, and so I would imagine a hell of a lot of people that are seeing two people a week have spent thousands of dollars on classes like that that they know how to advertise their business, but once a client comes in, they don't know how to actually service them with real hypnosis or therapy. So that person walks out and is like, don't see that person. Uh and they're a walking billboard to say don't go there. And so it doesn't mean skills you've got to bring somebody in, unless you've got the skills to deal with them when you've got them. Yes, yes, then you can't go anywhere. I I don't even have a sign. Um I I work completely off referrals and Google reviews when people search, yeah. Like I've got 20 times the Google reviews, the next typist in town. So the word of mouth is what makes my business work. It's not like a Google ads or a Facebook thing or whatever. Uh I'm sure some of that sort of stuff helps, but I don't spend money on advertising. But I do podcasts like this. I've got my own podcast, so I've got things that like draw people in. Uh, but it's just me showing me, showing them who I am. There's a transparency, it's not a gimmick to lure people in. It's just uh Right.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

This is just who I am. This is my process, this is my beliefs, this is my curiosity. This is me being curious in the public stage.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Yeah. Uh and that attracts to me people that are curious as well, that are open to that process and to do it. Um and it sends away the ones that are like two in the box that won't gel with me. But they'll find somebody who that works for.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Yeah, yeah. They find they always find someone. And I wonder, you're talking about teaching, and that again, thank you for your time. And yeah, I want to let you go soon. Uh for teaching. Now, Bob Burns, you went and learned from Bob Burns. I know he used to bring people to his house there in Scotland and stay with him, and he would cook for them and have wine and then take them in to see clients together. So now that he's not doing that, can I come stay with you?

SPEAKER_02 51:23

Yeah, you can. I I uh I did I did the opposite of that. So I uh you flew him out with me. Yeah, yeah. That's in his home territory, uh, and we didn't cook, but we came out for dinner and like yeah, we'd sit on the lounge and drink scotch together.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

I think that's where the learning happens. Like, that's why I'm excited to go hit my thoughts as a janitor, because the the presentations, okay, great, great, wonderful. The real magic to me happens after when we all get together and start asking questions and telling stories and be like, that is magic to me.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

It does. I've done I've done hypnosis retreats before, and like as some standout memories for me of like what can happen with hypnosis have happened, like at retreats. Like I had I had this one woman who like she would go and hypnosis like that, and like she'd done some sessions with me, so my hypnotic voice that would be it. Like, as soon as I start like in a hypnosis zone, my like voice changes a little bit, and like that's enough of an anchor for her. And so this was her first time as a student in the class. Uh, and so she'd she's not gonna learn anything being sunk out like that. Uh as I was curious, I I played like I'd done a past life regression with her before, so I was like, Yeah, bring this uh this past life out. Can you watch this class and learn hypnosis and like help that integrate in her conscious mind so that she can do it? She's like, I think so. Let's let's try it. And so, like, for a chunk of this day, uh, the end chunk of that day, this like turnip farmer was uh in my class. Uh oh man. But then at the end of that, I got like people to experiment like after hours of stuff. So I got that turnip farmer to do a password progression on somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Oh now that is fun.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

That is fun and so like play things like that you'd never do in a normal class. Like, I'd never like spend time on that. But like classic finished, we just had dinner, like we were chilling out. It's like this beautiful idea. Like, what happens if this happens? Yeah, that was really entertaining to observe. Uh, and so stuff like that, like the the out-of-hours experiments get really, really so yes. Uh I I think um you're right, the janitor stuff is is where it's gonna be those conversations in the corner spark off ideas within you, and the experiments you do that are like just loose of I've got this idea, you want to do something weird.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

Yeah, that to me, that just that lit me up when it when another hypnotist says, Hey, I got an idea that you want to do something weird, I'm like, I'm in. Let's let's go as weird as we could go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Uh I start every session like that. Uh before we move into like the stuff, I've got this process, it's a little bit weird, but it gets good results. Are you comfortable with something weird if it gets good results? Uh, everybody says yes, everybody thinks they're more comfortable with weird than they are. Then when their hand starts moving and they're freaking out, uh pause and go, is this too weird for you? You said you were comfortable with they're like, well no, it's okay. Yeah, if you get direct voice, and it's like this is weird. Like, well, you said you were comfortable with weird. Uh it's quite often the case after somebody's first session. Like, how was it? And they're like, That was that was weird or bizarre or whatever word they want to use like that. I'm like, I did tell you before we started it was gonna be weird, and they're like, I didn't think it was gonna be that weird. Yeah. Well, let's see the change happen.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

What happens with the people that like I sat in on someone else? I don't want to say this never happens for you or me. I just I saw it happen where one guy was trying to get another person to do some idiomother stuffs like the fingers moving or even the swan, and it just wasn't happening. And I just what what's going on there? Like, is there is it the practitioner or is it just that time? Maybe just it's not the right time.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

100% the practitioner. Uh so I've had lots of people over the years book Zoom sessions in for me from around the world that they just can't get Idiomoto going. Like I I had one of them he booked a five session package, and like when we had the first call, he said that's what it was. And it's like, we're not gonna need five sessions for this. Uh he's like, I've I've had like 20 people try. Like, we'll get there. Uh and we got that first session. Uh, and it's not because I have a magical ability, it's not because my like words are some special script. Uh it's it's I've found the right button to push. So like um I've got a video I'll I'll send you personally to have a look at, but there was this girl I I couldn't get a response with. Uh and she talked beforehand uh about she loves dancing and stuff like that, just as an off-the-cut comment before we began things. Uh and so I tapped into that part of it that likes to dance, and I start dancing with that hand, and her hand started moving then, and we got the turn happening. Uh I love that. Yeah, it's it's what's the right button. So, like that lady I referred to earlier, who like I did a miracle with her in two sessions, but I couldn't do the other thing that was simple in 15. I found the right button to push for that miracle. As I said to her throughout those 15, I just haven't found the right button yet. I've just got to find a different angle to push. It could have been if she turned up for session 16, we got it. It might have been 25 before I found what unconscious button fits with that problem. And that's the the first bit with like Ideomoto. Like, I I it's gonna sound hard to explain because I'm gonna I'm gonna use kind of visual language and it's not a visual thing for me. I am not a highly visual person, like had a couple of people on my podcast about Aphantasia, but my views of that are a little bit skewed now. Uh, but I don't see images, right? But right with all of my sessions, I'm imagining somebody over your shoulder. So I'm not imagining seeing them there, but I'm imagining another person over your shoulder that's holding this issue. And so like my sessions start with about half hour, we're just talking. I'm finding out like how this thing plays out in your life and where it might fit. So use some different things we've learned about psychology to get patterns of like, well, if that's happening, as this sort of thing happened, map out like, is this the thing for like parental things? Is it a thing from peer-based things? Is it a thing from experience-based things? Like, where did this start? And the whole time I'm trying to say, Well, this guy over your shoulder, in what way is he trying to help with this problem? What's what's the up chunk of where he thinks this is helpful? Uh, and what's what's a passion that's there, and stuff like that, so I can find some ways that my goal is to create rapport with that part over your shoulder. Um by you're paying me and and I care about you, but in comparison to how much I care about you to that guy over your shoulder, I really don't give a shit about you. I'm not trying to impress Ryan, I'm trying to impress this part of Ryan, the problem because he's powerful, he's really powerful, like he's doing stuff that this person's tried everything they can do to stop, and they can't see this version of Ryan. So, this Ryan, he's he's the one in control, and he's the one who I want to deal with. Uh, and I want him to know I see him as powerful, but also intelligent and creative and and all the rest. And I want to see that I get where he's coming from. And as soon as I can express that I get where he's coming from, he wants to talk to me now, but he can't until he can move a goddamn finger, until he can move that hand. Uh, from there, I can I can keep it chokehold and just keep it as yes, no, maybe I don't know, and have that idiomotive discussion and have it on a little bit more rails, or I can break those rails and invite him to come forward and talk. But again, yeah, how much can I like make that part feel safe and have that desire to talk to him? Uh, and so part of my spiel as as I'm doing things now pretty much always includes I've just been talking about you for half hour with Ryan. Uh I don't want to talk about you. Right now I'm just talking to you, at you. And what I have to say is important. So I I can do this, but I don't really want to do that. What I really want to do is talk with you. But to do that, you're gonna give me a flick of a finger on that hand. You're gonna and then start to teach it how to like use those nerves and then teach it how to make something mean a yes, a no. Maybe I don't know. Away we go. For some people, I have not got an idiomotor till I've gone. Maybe you're you're worried I'm gonna get something out of you that you don't want to share. Well, let's start with a pass. Show me a way that you can tell me to skip to piss off, to leave that question alone, and and I won't go there. Uh and that has been the case. There's been a handful of times that we get a pass. Then everything opens up. Uh, and I've never even seen the pass come out in the questions because I like kind of what the boundaries are gonna be anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

That is so smart, and I love how it the thing that I keep visualizing as just this container of safety that like it feels if they feel safe and they trust you and they you have that rapport. And I've seen where someone doesn't have rapport and then just the whole thing falls apart, like the that person behind me just says crosses her arms like nope. Yeah, but it's done.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

I can't do anything from that point. Uh it's never gonna happen. And interestingly, from that point, uh, I never have to use a hypnotic process again. And I know every time that person's around me, if I've connected well to that part, he's there before, like, and I can I've I've done things before where I've just given an off-the-cuff suggestion to somebody that I've worked with in the past, uh, and they've come back to me later and gone, what'd you do? How'd you do that? I didn't do any trick. Like, I haven't drank for like three weeks. And last time I bumped into you, like you made a comment about drinking, and like that part inside of you just like took my advice as a good thing to go with. So it did, you're happy. I can undo it if you want. Like, he's like, No, no, I'm happy with this. Yeah, uh, but if that rapport's there and what you're saying is ethical and suitable and beneficial to him, well, it'll just happen from that point. Uh, I started an experiment, I think it would be eight years ago now, maybe seven. Of like there's there's two questions I always ask at the beginning of a session, guaranteed. Whether it's I'm just playing for shits and giggles or it's a proper session. First one is do you want to talk with me? Um, which has really backfired on me before. Like, once I gave a demonstration to a room of like I think it was 60 therapists. Like, these are the stories I love, yeah. Uh I was like, no, and I'm like, now I was like, will you talk to me? And it was like, no, I'm like, well, I just need another demonstration now, and so she had to go sit down, like another person. That didn't work for me, but you can still have an out of it, but I want to make sure it's comfortable with it. Uh so some of it's like, well, no, you don't, but you're willing, you're at least talking to me now. So are you willing to keep going? And it'll usually say yes. Uh, but my my next key question, and this is the really important experiment that I think I've done over years, is have you been listening for the past half hour or so while Ryan and I have been talking, before I invited you to connect down to that hand, that arm, those fingers? It's a some like I haven't like tracked the figures, like literally of writing them down. Uh, better to be sitting at somewhere like of 97-98%, that's how high I get a yes at that point.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

Right. Because it's always listening. It's like it's like that study where the mother is sleeping, like a a mother, and there's maybe seven other babies in another room, and the mother will sleep and only wake up when her baby cries.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Like, and it's a something, even though the the person, the mother is asleep, there's something else listening.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:54

Yeah, but there's it's also a case of like like this person before they've come to see me. They've let's say they've got anxiety, they've been talking about how they hate their anxiety to their their mom or their brother or their partner or whatever. I'm going to go see this guy, he's gonna get rid of my anxiety. His plan so it's going, that's me. Don't get rid of me. So they're like watching this guy like a hawk. I don't like you therapist. So that's not trying to build a rapport with that part. It's like, I see you, I see what point you're trying to do. It's it's not working, but it's I can see the heart of where it's coming from. Uh to soften up, so it wants to talk to me, so it's good. But that's where I'm pointing out. I see the strength, I see the value. Right. Let's align that to something good. And part of my thing is like talking to this part inside of you've been doing this thing every day for so long, and you get told to F off, leave me alone constantly. But your job's so important, you still do it. How would you feel if we did some experiments? We tried this different way of you doing it. And at the end of every day, you're actually getting a thank you. How's that gonna feel? Uh, and so this part then really wants to play and and help, but yeah, it's listening because it thinks I'm the enemy and it's got to protect that person from me. Uh and so and it it's like let's say you're out with uh a bunch of your mates and you're starting to walk away, and you hear some of your mates say Ryan uh in the middle of the year, you're gonna be tempted to go, I don't need to go to the toilet just yet. I'm gonna just like lift your back to listen to see what like are they are they shit canning me? Are they saying no? Right, exactly. Is this safe for me to leave that spot? Uh you'll you get that feeling. Like um, I've heard too many jokes of people like saying that their wife can like be engaged in a conversation over there and everything they're doing here because they're they're able to listen in, uh, and people's focus will go where it needs to go. And so unconsciously, it's it's always seems to be listening, but I don't think it's like that old model of hypnosis, what people say of like your unconscious is recording every single detail of every little thing the whole time. Uh it's paying attention to what it wants to pay attention to if what's important. Like, sometimes that thing has not been a yes, it's been a a maybe. And I'll like engage in this conversation of like we half listening, but you weren't really interested.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

And it's like, yeah, uh yeah, yeah. Maybe the World Cup was on another station there, paying attention to that. I kind of had one ear on you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:43

Yeah, yeah. Or it was just in daydream fantasy about like what we're gonna get for lunch when I leave my space until it's like, oh, he's talking to me. Oh, this is about me. Okay, I didn't realize this was my thing. Um like second, third, fourth, fifth, whatever session afterwards, it is always yes. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

And they're like, oh, it's this Lance guy again. Yeah, he's interesting. No one's really talked to us like this before. Yeah, I'm moving my hand for those listening. I'm just moving my hand like it's this one, you know, like, yeah, it's oh, it's Lance, let's go, guys, you know, like some people like as they're talking, like as they walk in the room and they're just sitting there, like I can see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:34

They're just in the room. Yeah, uh, I'm ready to talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

I've been waiting, I've been waiting since last time. I have more stuff to say.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:41

Yeah, and I'm like I'll hide it too. You can't see uh personal details, but like probably isn't even gonna show up. I I draw a little hand with yes, no, maybes and stuff for each client in the corner of my page as as I'm working with them. So I've got that track. But some people that's different every time, some people it's the same every time for me. My responses have been the same for like years, a decade or more. Yeah, they've been exactly the same. Uh, and so some clients I know like a finger is just yes, right, it's no. And so while I'm talking to them, if I'm noticing out of my peripheral, the nose flicking off while they're telling me something, it's like, well, this is bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:33

If if there's if there's something I say and I'm getting a yes finger straight away, like I'm getting the hypnotic interaction happening of that thing. I'm talking to the conscious client, but I'm getting the unconscious information of yeah, that's the way we need to go with this. Uh, I'm not gonna waste my time talking about this other stuff with the conscious person. Yeah, like it's it's already been narrowed down to to what that is, so that can be helpful and interesting, but it's just curious that like I've provided this part to come forward. It's just like I'm in the room with Lance, I'm gonna start talking with him, whether he's like acknowledged I'm here or not. And half the time, I don't even acknowledge it. I like just mental notes. Um it's funny, and uh and sometimes I'll refer back to it later. I'll be like, I noticed this happening. Did you notice that? And I'm like, nah. Okay, like unconscious will lose this.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:24

Yeah, that's fun when you're like talking to the person and the unconscious at the same time. It's like going to like we talk about Legos, the Lego movie. It has adult jokes and it has kids' jokes, you know. So it's like kids understand one level, adults under, and then that's the same. Your client, the person talking to you is engaging with you, and meanwhile, you're also having a conversation with the unconscious through their idio.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:48

Yeah, and so my view from working with this all the time is your conversations have to be of both all the time. You've you've got to be talking to a party of people rather than a person every time you're talking with somebody for things to get the best results. Um I'm trying to pull myself back into that spot all the time. And it's it's it's not like I'm just in that zone all the time that I'm always hallucinating a different Ryan over your shoulder. Uh bunch of different Ryan's over your shoulders.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:23

Uh, yeah, there's a lot of them back there.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:25

Yeah. Uh but I'm I'm consciously trying to get back into that zone when I can and be like, oh yeah, there's a part of you that's trying to do this with that. Uh and be able to acknowledge that that part of your consciousness and and notice where there's a conflict there that I can do like parts work with some people without doing parts work just by like conversationally talking about like two opposing views of something and and how it could be mediated. Uh we haven't entered into a hypnosis thing, I'm just talking with a friend, but right I've I've done parts work because I've imagined those two parts there of what's going on. I haven't got feedback off them necessarily, but quite often that will will do the thing because well, it's it's because I've had that perspective shift inside of of what's going on for somebody.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:16

It's almost like their energy is talking to your energy, and like it's yeah, that like it just flows. Like you you just kind of like step your critical faculty aside for a minute and just let the two unconsciouses talk to each other, and you're just sitting there watching the show, and then okay, I'm I'm back. Is there anything I should do? Nope. All done, let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:40

I've had some stuff pop out of my mouth that I'm like, as soon as I said, why'd I say that? I should not have said that. Uh and that's been the thing that's made the session from me like, well, that was the S. Right. Uh one woman with weight loss, this is years ago now. Um I said this thing of like she can open all those packages she's got at the back of her closet and start to wear those clothes now. Like once she loses weight. I was like, what? She's like, how do you know? Right. Like a wall of packages in the back of my closet over all these clothes I've ordered for when I lose weight that I haven't even been game to open because they don't fit me yet. Uh don't know how I knew that. I just said something and like regretted it instantly.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:31

But I love how you regretted it. And then there's like she's like saying you're psychic, and you're like, I just regretted saying it. How could I be psychic if I regretted it, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:45

Yeah, I didn't know where it comes.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

Yeah, but uh yeah. Yeah. And then just a moment, uh, everyone listening, watching, uh, Lance has offered to do a little hypnotic gift at the end, maybe in the former swan or whatever you want to do. I wonder before that, Lance, is there anything that you want to say to the whole world in this moment? Like, is there any message that just comes to you that you want to share?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:13

Yeah, uh well, this is going after people in the West, I presume is going to be most of your list.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:18

Dude, dude, I'm surprised. I looked at the stats and it's people in Turkey and Istanbul, and well, that is in Turkey, sorry. But um, is everybody Istanbul in Turkey? I'm I'm an American, I don't know my geography, you know, but most generally, uh, you know, it surprises me. It's almost like Americans are more, I don't know, Mr. Beast, you know, like and then it's like it's a lot of other countries are tuning in. And so for everyone around the world that's watching or listening, thank you again for being here.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:53

Well, I think people who've been exposed to things of the West. Um our culture limits who we are. We're constantly told we're not good enough because that makes us easier to be sold to. If we've got a deficit, we want to fill it. Uh so all of us have got a lie within our filter that part of us is trying to keep us safe by telling us we're not good enough because of this message we've been programmed with since we're toddlers. So just presume for a while that most of the negative things you tell yourself about yourself are complete and utter rubbish. And is there a more positive edge? Uh because I think pretty much everybody in the West is harder on themselves than they should be. Some are vocal about it, but some cupid inside. Just open yourself up to the possibility of what's it like if I'm actually okay? If I'm actually a nice person. Uh and if if you're not, if you get clear information I'm not because of this, then do something different about that. Uh but chances are you'll hear in your head, yeah. I do this thing. That's good. Do more of that thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:22

That was that was beautiful in itself, right there. That's like man, I love that. That's healing, those words. That's healing. I think a lot of people, whoever listens to that, heard it just at the right time. And I pray that they heal and show the world who they truly are. And now, without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, I assume we put the standard disclosures. If you're flying an airplane, you know, pause the video and then get people safely home and then then go back to this video, get in a comfortable spot where you won't be disturbed a while. No heavy machinery, you know, all that, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:02

We'll actually do this while I drive, but I don't recommend people do it while they drive.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:07

You're the you're okay, you're not the you say you're not the master, but you're pretty close if you could do this while you drive. So okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:14

Do anywhere, anywhere. Uh I wouldn't do it flying a plane full of people, but on my own, maybe I don't know how to fly a plane, so I definitely wouldn't be alive. Uh so we'll we'll uh we'll do this one thing. Uh this is not particularly easy to do uh on Zoom where I can't see everybody. Uh but I've done this plenty of times with groups, so success is not going to be 100% with this upfront. If this isn't working for you, don't think oh, this thing can't work for me, or whatever. As you just heard me talk about with Ryan there. Lots of what I'm doing is connecting with that version of you over your shoulder. With this, I'm talking to I don't know how many people at once uh could be listening to this lifetime. This podcast could be millions of people for all we know. Like uh, so my button is not going to work for everybody straight away, but you might get something. But it will help if you have a desire in your heart to be able to connect with a part of you that wants you to be happier, that wants you to have more joy in the world. The party that might have been inspired by that that thing I just said that made Ryan smile. So uh if you're watching on video, you'll be able to see if you're uh just listening in. Uh, I'll try and use my best words to describe it. But I'd love for you to find somewhere where you can sit, where you can put your elbow down on like a table, or I'll quite often do it just on my knee, where your arm can be shooting straight up in the air, but your elbow is nice and supported. And then I would like it for you to make your wrist just as completely limp free and floppy as possible. Everything from that wrist forward, your hand, arm, and fingers just loose, free, floppy. Your job from here is to do nothing. I don't want you to do a thing, I don't want you to help me and try and move that hand, I don't want you to fight it and go against it. I want you to just do absolutely nothing. And one of three things might happen. One might just be nothing, and you're just listening to me talk to your hand and waste my time. And that's okay, because there's plenty of people that this is not going to be the case for. Uh that's okay. Two is you might feel some weird things uh in that hand. And and if you're working with me and that's all we got, there's still a way we could do that, but you might notice some odd sensations a tingle, uh a buzz, a push, pull, hot, cold, just some sort of odd sensation. That's that's all right, it might be interesting. You might be able to notice different sensations as we go along. That's still something. Uh, or three, the magic might happen, and that hand of yours might move all on its own. Uh, and you will know the difference from whether you moved it or this is just unconsciously moved on its own, and that's where stuff gets a little bit weird. Uh, and if you're with me, I'd be able to tell the difference of that too. Uh, and that's where it gets interesting, where we can open up that conversation. So let's see what happens. So you just leave your hand completely free. Floppy, your job is to do nothing. And as you've got that hand there, I invite that part of you that would like to make you happy, that would like you to experience joy, laughter, and love in the world to connect down into the hand, that arm, and those fingers. I'd love to see if it could just give you a little twitch, a jolt, a flicker, one of those fingers or any part of that hand. Just let you know it's there. And for some of you it's already happened, for some of you it hasn't yet. But it's working out how to connect into every nerve, muscle, fiber, it can. That hand, arm, and fingers. And you give that twitch, that jolt. Some of you you might be feeling it up in your shoulder and not quite down in those fingers yet. Uh, for others, your fingers going nuts right now, and that's just wonderful. That's just that part of you saying, Oh, you know, I'm happy, I'm ready to play. Uh, but the more I talk, the more it just wants to create that twitch, that jolt. And this is this is where we're gonna segue down a different path here. For some of you, it's still trying to work out that bit, and it's just gonna keep doing that. It's gonna keep trying to make our twitch, our jolt, whatever, through that hand, the more I talk. And for others, it's already there. And so for that, I want to see if something more can happen. If we could take this to the next level and see if we could turn that hand in and around. Till those fingers are pointing in at that face. That's it, just like Ryan's did right there then. And the more I talk, the more it wants to just keep turning that hand in and around and unlock that ability to talk with us here today. That's it. And each little movement you make it, you can learn from it. Learn what nerve you fired off and how you move that muscle. And each movement you can learn from. Because you've got an insane intelligence inside. And you can use all that power, that intelligence, that creativity to learn what you just did to reverse engineer it, to make the next move bigger than the last. The next movement happened even quicker than the last. That's it. You can keep turning that hand in and around, opening up that ability to talk with us here today. And soon as it's gonna be that, well, I can't talk with you because I can't see everybody's hand, I can only see Ryan's. But your person's gonna be able to talk with you. And you've got this desire to make them happier, to break this this propaganda they've been had their whole life that they're not good enough. We want to shatter that. We want to make them smile more. So once you keep turning that hand in and around until those fingers are pointing in at that face, like the tip of that index finger is the tip of a needle on a compass, and their face is north. That's it. There we go. And some of you, like Ryan's hand there, it's jolting backwards and forwards. For some of you, it's magnetizing as a stuck pointing directly at you. For others, it's moved like maybe a centimeter or two. For those Americans, like half an inch. Uh for others, it's moved just the tiniest little bit. For some, it's been still. That's okay. That part's gonna keep trying to do something. But this is where we've got another fork in the road. For some of you, there's been enough there now that we can skip this. We can jump to the next bit. And for those on the earlier path, just keep trying. The more you hear my voice, the more you do that. If you want to jump ahead to this bit, you can jump ahead to this bit as well. To that part that wants to make you happy, that wants to make you feel some joy again, or some more joy. I'd like you to find a way to move that hand or one of those fingers to some movement that could mean yes. What to say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, I want to see a smile. Yes, I want some joy to happen there. There we go. Now, and his face is already smiling, he's laughing and jiggling around the zone as this part's already getting to work and doing the thing before I even giving a suggestion. Uh, but I'm not here to boss people around. I don't want just a yes. I want to wait for you to say no. No is an important word. Might be something I asked that. I even hope that a no pops out for. So why don't you show us a different movement of that hand or a different finger to make a no? Why are you saying no? No, no, no. No, no, no. And as we go, I like those responses of that yes and that no to get bigger and clearer as we go. Uh normally I would ask for for a maybe and I don't know for for if we need to engage in some deeper stuff, but I'm not having direct conversation, so I think we can skip that today. We'll keep it basic, just yes and no. Now I asked to speak to a part that wants to make you happy, so my first question is do you really want to make your person happier? Hopefully everybody's getting a yes there. Uh and do you want to talk with us? Do you want to talk with your person here today? To start with, it's gonna be an us because I'm going to be talking with you, to you, and they're gonna be hearing your response. Uh but after this, they're gonna talk to you as well. And I hope you'll talk to them just as clearly as you're talking to me right now. Uh now because I already told Ryan what my second question already is, I'm gonna ask that same thing of you. Were you listening in to this conversation before we connected you down to that hand, that arm, those fingers? See, Ryan's is saying yes. Uh if there's something that myself or Ryan said that's useful, that's beneficial, uh, I want you to use your own intelligence, your own creativity. As long as it's safe and it's ethical, I want you to just go ahead and make that thing happen. There's a an approach that works for you out of this that you can inspire to just unlock something wonderful inside. I don't want you to do it. Whether it's to do with hypnotherapy or energy healing or something else, just go for it. And I know that's subject uh to a different thing to what we're what I asked you to do here today. I asked to speak the part that wants to make you guys happy. So I've got a really important job for you to do. A game I'd love for you to play. I'd like you to be on the lookout in the background, all day, every day, for something wonderful. As long as it's appropriate and safe for you to be doing. So I'd like you to be looking for that everyday joy, love, and beauty. For the things in the world that make your person smile. And when and where it's appropriate, I want you to draw their attention to it, to see if you can make them smile. Sometimes I want this to even be to make them laugh, have a giggle. On rare occasions, probably even a cackle or a snort to like really get in to that absolute love and joy. I'd like you to help them notice it and engage in it, and I'd like you to see how contagious it is. That smile is contagious, and a uh a snort laughter, that just ripples through the room. That like just sends other people into it. So I'd like you to help your person to notice these moments and to be in those moments. We're taught the world's so busy, and that's a lie. We're taught to stay out of the moment. And I want you to help keep your person in that moment for when their law of love, that joy, that beauty is there, and help them to embrace that and enjoy it.

unknown 1:28:00

Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:01

And every day I want you to get better and better at this. I want you to do it more and more. Learn from it. So that you can make that smile on that face more and more often. Again, when and where it's appropriate. Sometimes that's not going to be suitable. I don't want you to be doing rip, snort of laughter in the middle of like a funeral or something like that. Unless somebody's like trying to share something joyful about that person's life. Again, then context. And now the second level of this, this is this is where stuff will really get wild. Tonight, while your person's asleep, once you go through their memory, so this whole lifetime, looking for every moment of where there's been a sense of gratitude. Things that have been great, the things that they they really appreciate that happened in their life. I'd like you to use your intelligence, your creativity, and power to notice what those things are. If they're applicable to still do now, to give your person epiphanies, realizations to to call this person up, to go to this place, to have these kind of experiences, to do these sort of things again, to magnetize them to make more of these moments that they could have a sense of gratitude about. To magnetize them to the things that work within their life. The people that are right for them. And this is where it gets tricky. There's patterns to this stuff that I know you're smart enough to notice. That you don't just have to recreate the same things again. You can find things that are like that. And again, give them the confidence and the courage to just do those things, to notice them, to embrace them. Would you do that for your personal please? And I'm hoping everybody's getting yes. And with that, you're gonna create new memories of moments of gratitude. And I want that to snowball for it to get more and more throughout the rest of life. And sometimes these people are gonna be good. Brian, I'm sure, is gonna be great with this. That they're gonna give you a thank you back. They're gonna notice, hey, unconscious self, you did great there. Thanks. More of that, please. Some of you, I hope, would use this method where you're asked to talk to this part of yourself and go, hey, did you did you actually help with that today? Did you make me notice this moment? And you say yes, and they say thank you, more of that, please, and you just develop a relationship over time. Some are not gonna do that, some are gonna just have this moment happen, and you've just done this miraculous, beautiful thing for this person on the inside, and you'll never get a thank you again. But you're gonna get it from me now in advance because I trust you're gonna do it. So I thank you and I appreciate you for what you're gonna do for this person who I'll probably never even meet. But I thank you for what that is. And I want you to notice if you've created a smile on that face, that thank you's already there. If you've done the thing and it's worked, the job went well. And to lock that in as a success and just to do it more and more each and every day, in each and every way, get better and better at this stuff.

unknown 1:31:11

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:12

Thank you. I'd like to thank everybody's unconscious that's come forward today. I would like it to relax, control that hand, that arm and those fingers and go back in the background and get started on all of that. Allow it to unfold, happen as it is, and allow that hand to just feel completely comfortable, natural, and normal. And for those of you that are holding your hands up, you can wiggle them around, you can do whatever you like. It's probably got a weird feeling to it, but that should fade quite quickly.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:40

Beautiful. Thank you so much, Lance. And we'll have the way to get in touch with you and the description of this. And yeah, you're I'm looking forward to seeing you at conferences and the future. It's it's bright for you, brother. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:57

Thank you. I'd like to say one more thing if I if I can.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:59

Yes, yes, please.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:01

The details that'll be there to contact me, like for a session or a class or something like that, whatever. Uh, you can do that. But from this experience we just did, if you got the yes, no's and it said it was going to make something wonderful happen and something happens. And it's interesting, it's weird, uh, because some weird things are gonna happen for some people where like some great fun things happen. Uh, I like those stories. So feel free to like shoot me an email, send me a message or whatever, just to gloat over this great thing you've had happen. I like those. So you don't have to just contact me for business if you've got a funny story to share from what you've experienced from this. I would love to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:40

Yes. Yes, that is that's the best thing I've heard after one of these hypnotic gifts. It's just I want to hear what happens. Yeah, and I'm curious. Like, I have no idea what's gonna happen. I'm just curious what that mystery, that uh whatever they find in that new life of gratitude. You know, like it could be something different for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:02

Yes, yes. Uh, and for those of you who didn't work for, uh, I'm gonna give Ryan an extra link to like a self-hypnosis video on my website that does some other internal things to get other ways of yes nos because maybe it just can't connect to your nervous system yet, but might be able to do some other things. So I've got half a dozen different ways you can get contact with that part inside. So if it didn't work, you've got a backup thing. But we're not gonna waste 45 minutes on that right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:30

Sounds good. Thank you so much, Lance.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:32

Thank you, Ryan.