Pam Grout: The Field of Infinite Possibilities and the Joy of "E-Squared"

In this episode of AWAKEN with Ryan DeJonghe, Ryan is joined by the legendary Pam Grout, the #1 New York Times bestselling author of E-Squared, E-Cubed, and her refreshingly practical take on a spiritual classic, A Course in Miracles Experiment. Shifting away from clinical practitioners, this conversation explores Pam’s work as an explorer of "the field," where she encourages everyone to treat the universe as a giant laboratory for joy and manifestation.

The discussion dives into Pam’s philosophy that we are all connected to an "FP" (Field of Infinite Potentiality) that is constantly waiting for us to notice it. Pam shares her insights on why we often miss the miracles right in front of us and how simple, 48-hour experiments can prove that the universe has our back. From deconstructing the voice of limitation in our heads to embracing the "Pam I Am" spirit of playfulness, this episode is a call to stop playing small and start acknowledging the profound love and abundance available to everyone.

Key Takeaways & Meaningful Quotes

• "No matter how much you think you're loved, I guarantee you you're loved so much more."
• "Stop listening to that voice in your head that tells you any limitation, any voice that tells you something's not possible. The universe is much bigger than your small thoughts about it."
• "It's pretty cool how we can just talk to our subconscious and get a feel for it. We don't have to be experts; we just have to be willing to play and see what happens."

How to Connect and Work with Us

Connect with Pam Grout: Pam is a world traveler and the author of 20 books. You can join her ongoing experiments in consciousness and read her "news reports" from the field on her blog.

• Website: pamgrout.com

Work with Ryan DeJonghe: Ready to explore your own transformation through hypnosis?

• Website: trancewell.help
• Email: ryan@trancewell.help

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome, friends and family. My my yeah, I call you my friends. Everyone that's here listening now, I truly appreciate you being here. Your presence honors me. And today I am fangirling just a little bit here. We have the legendary Pam Girl, or as I see in the chat, Pam, I am. Welcome, Pam.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Oh, thank you, Ryan. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Yeah, it's so cool. Like I said, I'm fangirling. Like last night, I was I'm in the hypnosis community, and last night I was talking about these things I found in your book. And it's pretty cool how we can just talk to our subconscious uh using that and get a feel for it. So thank you for introducing me that to those.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah. Well, you know, these days it's almost hard to find those metal hangings. I was thinking about the other day.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Yeah, you know what? Yeah, I put on a Facebook group, like a buy nothing Facebook group. And I was like, I would like some metal coat hangers and straws for science. No one responded. And you know what? I'm gonna do what Pam would do. I'm just gonna manifest them.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Well, one of my favorite stories about the hangers, I was in Mexico City and I lost one of them, you know, and I used to use them in in my little play shops or my little talks or whatever. So I thought, oh my goodness, I'd, you know, I take them in my suitcase, but I couldn't find one. And uh next thing I know, Joe Dispenza, I don't know if you're familiar with him, oh yeah. You can use this. And he found me one. So it's like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Now that is a funny story. So Joe's out there carrying coat hangers too.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Well, he wasn't carrying them. He helped find me one when he knew what I wanted. You know, he was just backstage. All the authors were backstage, and he just, you know, pitched in to help me find the missing uh missing.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

That sounds like a really cool event to have you and Joe Dispenza and I don't know who else stared. That was man, that must have been electric.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yeah, it was fun. I know when the book first came out, I was doing a lot of those sort of um, I guess they have a lot of different authors sort of hay house events, although this in Mexico City wasn't a hay house event. But anyway, there were several authors there, and you know, we always kind of hang out when we get together, so that's fun.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yeah. Oh man, I'm I'm living vicariously right now. I'm like imagining myself just hanging out with you and Joe, just talking spiritual things and wondering how the universe works. And that's that's kind of funny because the universe is what brought me to you. And it was when did you do ecued? That was what, like 2014-ish?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

You know, I'm not sure. I I know that 2013 was e squared, and I think I was kind of almost like in every one or two years I was coming out with a new book after that. So it could have been 2014 or 2015, something like that. But it was the first one after e-squared, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Yeah, and it because I was doing book reviews at the time, and you know how a book review or you just gotta churn through it. You read it, read it, and then write the review, read the next one, write the review. And so I read your e cubed, I was like, wow, this is really interesting, but I didn't have time to do the practice, and so I set it aside, and then years later, nowadays, I'm like, oh, you know, kind of getting this whole thing with we call the universe. I'm like, where did I hear about that? And I went back, and then so e squared, where I picked up, you know, I where I left behind with you. And then there's the funniest thing, the very first experiment where you ask, you know, for 48 hours, give me a sign or a blessing. And you know what mine was? Like 10 minutes, 10 minutes until the 48 hour, like 10 minutes till I was like, okay, where is it? Where is it? You know, like what's gonna happen? And then it shows up. It was someone telling me about a Course in Miracles. Oh that was my miracle, and I didn't know the connection that you had because Course of Miracles is kind of what got you to write E squared and cubed, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Mm-hmm. Yeah, kind of all my books sort of sprang from Courts and Miracles in one way or another, because I've been a student of Courts and Miracles for a really long time. So oh, I love that story. That's the best.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah, it's so cool. And it's it's so I was I work with blind veterans during the day, and then so it's amazing what kind of site they pick up. You lose this site.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

That's fascinating, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Right, yeah, and then so this 94-year-old Korean War veteran who's blind was telling me, he's like, you know what, Ryan? He's like, all these people here, they're all neophytes. But you you should read the Course in Miracles. I'm like, what? What's that? And then he's like, if you do it for 365 days, he's like, this, this, this. You gotta find a group. You gotta find a group. And I was like, what do you mean you gotta find a group? And the miracle was as soon as like 10 minutes till I got a message on Facebook, hey, do you know about the Course in Miracles? It's like confirming, you know, it's like so cool. So how did it find you?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Oh gosh, Course in Miracles. Well, I went to a class when I was first out of college. It was just, you know, the university in Kansas City had a free university. Like anybody can give a class on anything, right? It was sort of like the old 60s when they did the, you know, everybody teach everybody. And so somebody was doing a class, offered a class on um Joe or Gerald Jampolski's book, Love is Letting Go of Fear. And it wasn't called that, it was called something else. It might have even said something about manifestation, but that was the book that we used. And of course, in there he talks about a course in miracles. So I decided, you know, I had to go get that book. Um, and then I then I guess I've basically been following ever since. I went to Esselin once for a month uh program with um Course in Miracles, and just always have kind of resonated with it. And I would say I'm slow because every year I do it again. You know, I start at January 1st. I know like your friend at the Veterans Place said, I would do it once, once, go through it once a year, and you know, once for a year, and then you'll be good. But I guess I just need to do it every year.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Yeah, yeah. It's funny because another veteran he would tell me that he would go on Vipassana retreats every year. So it's like kind of like that re-renewing, that rebirth almost the doing it yearly. I like that. What speaks out about the Course in Miracles to you these days?

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Like, where do you well, you know, I think it has the you know, the the thing with the Course Miracles, it's so huge and it's so dense, and it's like, why does anybody read this? I joke, I tell them, my book is like you go to a spiritual gathering like the one we were talking about earlier, because how many people have a copy of Course in Miracles? And now everybody raised their hand. Everybody has a copy, because you know, it's kind of one of those things. And then you ask the second question, well, how many have actually read it or that? And you know, one or two people still have it, because that's how complicated it is. But what it really boils down to is recognizing that the world we see is a creation of our mind. And when they talk in there about forgiveness, it's about letting go of all the um beliefs that we have created and condensed our world. You know, there is such a bigger world out there, and so it's a way of letting go of all the beliefs so we can see that bigger world, so we can experience and interact with that bigger world.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

In fact, I was I just did a blog post a couple of days ago, and it was about um about called an avalanche of astonishment.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Yeah, yeah. I wanted to ask you about that. Yes, say more, please.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Well, I loved it because you know, in there I said, this is why all those experiments work so well in E Squared. And I I mean, I guess I kind of knew that. But the fact is every day we're being offered these gifts. I mean, every day, all the time, but because of our lack of forgiveness to use the coarse uh terminology, or that way we've condensed reality, we don't see them, we don't notice them. So, really, it's I mean, the state of the world is beauty, truth, joy, love, all that. But we've created this other kind of alternate reality, and then we think that's what it is. So it kind of would just get people to pay attention, at least e squared was you're like, get rid of all those beliefs, all those things that you think are blocking that so you can see your gifts. But anyway, I I just thought that was kind of oh yeah, no wonder this worked because it's always there. They're always there. We just need to pay attention.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

I love the imagery of just you're being like almost buried with these blessings by the universe. And it feels like talking about blindness again. It's almost like people have these blinders on that are like shielding them from their own blessing. And when you're talking about these blessings, and we kind of are hitting about manifestation too. My old mindset was like Napoleon Hill, have one thing, be single-minded. And yet I'm wondering like as we play with this universe that we've created, can you manifest multiple things at once? Is that double-minded, or is it something else?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

No, I think you can. Um, I know that whole single focus, do all that, and I get that, but anymore for me, I don't even necessarily try to manifest any one particular thing because I trust so much that the universe only wants to bless me and and you know, guide me and lead me. So I just trust that it's gonna send me the best things, you know, and it always does. So yeah, it can be an avalanche, it can be, you know, any number of things. So yeah, I don't know about that. I mean, you know, different things work for different people. So I always say just ask your own inner guidance and it will let you know the best way to do it. I think you can do it either way, really.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

I love how you say ask inner guidance because that's the path I've I've now landed on is hypnosis. I started after my near-death experience and seeing this other place, like Joe Penza Dispenza talks about that, where you're no one and everyone at the same time, where you're nowhere and everyone at the same time. And I was like, wow, that place is so cool. And then when they revive me, they literally shocked me back to life. I'm like, oh, you know, a little disoriented. So I tried to get back there, but without dying to get there again. And then so how do I get back there? Part of it was meditation, part of it was doing Reiki, and then now, of course, hypnosis. And when you say ask the inner guidance, what is it? Who are we asking?

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Well, I believe life force is everywhere all the time. It's it's just there, it's just the truth. So we're basically asking um kind of for the real of all reels to show forth in our mind. So it's like the ultimate reality, the ultimate. So I don't know, that's one way to say it. Who are we asking? It's not really a who, I don't think. It's um a force. In fact, I'd forgotten now about your near-death experience. And of course, you've probably told this a hundred times on your podcast, but I'm not sure. I'm cool talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Yeah, it's because the universe is like saying, like, I'm like, oh, they don't want to hear that again. But the universe is saying it's not your story to hold on to. You got you have to share it.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Yeah, yeah. Well, tell me more.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Yeah, well, and I will, because I have some questions along that, and along with sharing of story, because you're a storyteller. I love the style of your story. It's similar to that of the universe, and then that has a sense of humor. The universe has a sense of humor, and you have a sense of humor in describing it. So that's why I think you're a great advocate to you know, show us, and so that's what I mean. It's the stories. And then when you go back to life force, just I'll go back to there, but you mentioned this life force, the inner guidance of life force. Here's my hypothesis, and see if you think this is nuts, right? My hypothesis is that it's the mitochondria within us, and it's within plants. You like you mentioned you're the one that showed me about Finhorn Scotland. Am I saying that right? Finhorn Scotland, where she's like hearing the voice of the plants, right? And then boom, 40-pound cabbage coming out of gravel and sand, you know, all organic, no pesticides, just miracle after miracle, things happening, and boom, you know. And then so part of me is like like you hug trees, right? Like you literally go around and hug trees. Yeah. So, like, do you do that? I was thinking about that on my walk home. Do you do that in public? Like, well, strangers, like in the middle of the city, you'll just walk up to a tree and do it.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

You know, I'm getting more to where I will do it anywhere. You know, like any human being, I've got those little, oh, what do people think? You know, those kinds of questions that come into your head. Yeah. So I used to be a little bit more uh secretive about it, but lately I'm kind of like, you know what? It doesn't matter what anybody thinks. Yeah. I like what Anita Morgiani used to say that people would tell you, tell you, tell her she was crazy, and she goes, I almost fell off my unicorn when they tell her that, you know, like, oh my god. So I feel a little bit like that these days, you know. So what if anybody thinks I'm crazy? Um, right now, my current thing that I love so much, you know, it's spring. But I do this in the winter too. I love going outside barefoot in my yard every morning, even in the snow, and I just feel that that life force, that mother Gaia coming after me. And I feel like that connection, you know, getting grounded, I guess some people call it that. But that just feels really powerful. And I've got tons of trees around me. I mean, I have a small little yard, but I just have a lot of trees, and I love them. And I feel like I don't know, there's so much to be found in nature that we just miss out on because we're living our little cubicles, you know, our little indoors thing. And so I'm really into right now just being outdoors and just feeling that I don't know. I walk out the door and I just feel it. It's comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Yeah, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

I I wonder in the scheme of the universe and this this life force, what is possible? I feel like anything's possible. Like I heard this quote saying that we're born able to walk on the water until someone told us we can't.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

But yeah, I've heard something like that too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

So can we walk on the water? This is the reality that we're making. Like, what's possible?

SPEAKER_00 14:37

I love to, I will not discount any possibility, and that's where you start getting that unicorn uh label, you know, the little push label. Yeah, but I don't care. Why would I want to disregard any possibility? I believe anything could be possible, and it may never happen for me. I may never walk on water. I mean, that's not something I'm really trying to do, but I'm you know, but um, but I do want to think that's a possibility. I want to think that everything's a possibility.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

I'm getting chills, I'm getting chills right now. Yeah, and that goes to my other part of theory. I think the mitochondria try to talk to us through the fascia of like it's because it's like a current, and then so like it makes the hair stand up, it makes these things work. Like the mitochondria are talking to us through our fascia. And if you call me a unicorn for believing that, call me a unicorn because that's what I believe, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

But here's the thing the fact that you've got scientific mitochondria and fascia. I mean, once you have those things, it makes it more believable for some people. You know what I mean? So that's actually a pretty powerful way to get it through, you know. Oh, here's here's the explanation. Because some people want that explanation. Yeah. So to say it's in the mitochondria, I mean, yes, I believe that. That's true. But I feel like it's even bigger than that. Like every word that we use is somewhat of a uh a block, or you know what I mean? It's it's not the full expression. So a word is just a word, but we're so attached to words, but again, we're so attached to limitations as well. So I really love lately. I've been thinking a lot more about this. You know, I'm a writer, so words are my stocking trade. I love writing.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

You know, I've always expressed myself that way. I love having conversations like this.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

But I'm noticing there's something even deeper and bigger beyond the words, and I'm becoming more and more interested in that. Yes. And um, I don't know, it's like, okay, what do I do now? I can't even talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

When you said about the words, I was just reading about the Hindu gods, like, and there was one god that invented Sanskrit in order to control the universe.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

And it's the language of the gods. And it's funny how words manipulate the universe. And the Sanskrit, because it was the language of the gods, was musical, is a musical language, like a vibration, like um, is a vibration of the earth.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yes, it's a frequency, and that's what we're talking about. Yeah, you sort of feel that frequency, and you can't really explain it, but you just feel it in your body, and so that mitochondria explanation that you're using, like, yeah, that's a pretty good one because you know that makes sense to people. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Yeah, and as for my hypnotist, I emailed my my mailing group and I said I was hoping they would answer one way. I was like, Do you all want to hear about hypnosis through the woo-woo? Or do you want to hear about hypnosis through the science? And I was so disappointed because they all emailed back and said, We want the science.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Oh, well.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Darn it.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Did not one person want the woo-woo?

SPEAKER_02 17:49

One person said it. But yeah, it was speaking of avalanches, it was the avalanches. So I had on all the top scientists and on this podcast, and now I'm like, okay, you had your fill science, let's dive down the rabbit hole here. And it's interesting what you say about the vibrations because it's like I don't know if you looked at the Essenes much, like, and then the Gnostics and how they thought that the God or the universe is Sophia and it's that high vibration, and there's something to that, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Like oh, for sure, for sure. I don't I can't tell you what it is exactly, but yes, I totally agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

You feel it, you feel it. Now, when you said you want to explore what's possible on your when I went back to read ecube today getting ready for this, and you gave a quote of he I feel like he's a dear friend, although I never met him, Michael Elner. Like, have you ever met him? That was like your first quote. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

I don't even remember that. I use a lot of quotes like that. I've read, you know, as long as it's a quote, you can use that. So I don't, I'm, I don't even remember what was the quote?

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Tell me the quote, and I'll it'll Okay, I'll I'll look it up while I'm using that pattern, because I believe you mentioned something about pattern to you at one point, but um yeah, I'm pulling out and thank the universe for Kindles, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Because you can find it easier, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

And and you mentioned like the Course of Miracles. Like when you said you went and picked it up back then, I was picturing you with a huge, like you had to get a U-Haul to put the book in and carry it home. Me, I just open it up on the Kit Kindle.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah. Uh I still read it in the book form, though. You know, I I still do. I also read it on my phone sometimes, but and then do you um where do you collect all your quotes?

SPEAKER_02 19:40

That's why I want to know, because I'm a little jealous of that.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

I love quotes. Um, I don't know. I just kind of collect them as I go along. Like if I'm reading a book, oh, I love this quote. I have to get out my notebook, you know, and jot it down. I often carry a notebook with me. You know, that's kind of like I'm I'm doing field work, you know, because oh, this is a good idea, or this is something interesting, or I want to explore this more. So I always kind of have a notebook with me. So that comes in handy for when I read a really enticing quote. In fact, one of the posts I wrote down today, what was it exactly? Some sort of effect of something about, oh, being rational is such a lonely place, or something like that. You know, focusing on.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Isn't that good?

SPEAKER_02 20:23

It was something that in fact I wrote it down because you know, I thought being rational is such a and you know what? There's a hypnotist there's a hypnotherapy group on Facebook, it's about 30,000 hypnotists. And there's one guy that keeps talking about the subconscious not being real, and he says the science isn't there. I'm like, dude, that guy sounds like he's in a lonely, rational place. Yeah, especially in this community that specializes in talking to the subconscious.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Right. The rational mind, I think it said the rational mind is a very lonely place. So, you know, I can go to the rational mind. I hang out there sometimes, but I really love leaving the rational mind.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Amen to that. Yeah, yeah. And I found the quote. Okay, Michael Elner. So chapter one of Ecubed, Michael Elner, he's the president of Heel. The quote is just look at us. Everything is backwards, everything is upside down. Yeah, religion destroys spirituality, doctors destroy health, and governments destroy freedom.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Mm-hmm. That's a good quote. I didn't remember it was from him or that.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

I didn't remember that name, but yeah, that's yeah, and the same way with quotes, like I'll swap them out, whatever. But Michael Elner, so it's it's one of the serendipitous things of the universe. It's just I love these little surprises, these avalanches of surprises from the universe. And it was just I was looking at a course, I'm taking a course on pain management using hypnosis, so lowering the level of pain, the chronic pain that people have. And he was a gift. In that regard. And I was looking at his teaching. He's since passed away. And then I turned and look at your book, and there his quote is. I was like, oh, that's so cool. And with him, you're talking about what's possible. He went into New York, and when people were given an AIDS diagnosis, they're told they're going to die. And he refused to believe that. He says there gotta be people that don't die. And then he gathered these people up and started an organization to explore what's possible.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

That's who you talked about the goosebumps. I just thought goosebumps when you said Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

He is a treasure. And again, I again goosebumps just thinking about the person, the human being of who that is, of exploring what's possible. He's like a juggernaut in that regard. He had a thing called um quantum attention. So focusing your attention on the quantum level.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yeah. Alright, so we talked about life force. And then so regarding that my near-death experience, uh, a story I think you'll appreciate. And then I want to talk about my idea for a book. Because you like to write, I like to write. So I'm just going to pitch it. But two things I experienced that are pretty cool. The first one was while I was away, so I was just depressed. I was in the church. I was a pastor. I went to seminary and I walked away because I walked away because I felt that the church was boxing in God. Jesus said, These works and greater shall you do. He Jesus looked at everyone and said, You are gods, right? Mary Magdalene got it, but then I just I was like, What's going on? Where is God and the church? You know, like and then so I walked away. And then I depression found me and got a hold of me, and I literally prayed to God to take my life because I didn't have the guts to do it. And then about a week later, he did. Instant. Like I was out to eat with my family, and I just collapsed on it over my son. Instant, no lightheadedness, no chest pains, nothing. And the doctors still don't know why. They call it idiopathic. It was an electrical condition of the heart. It just instantly put me out, right? And then there's all these serendipitous things that happen. Like a firefighter that was in 9-11 was there at the bar and jumped over, start CPR. The mall security just happened to be doing AED training and had a live AED ready to go. You know, all these domino effects. And my mom, she was hysterical. She's like, just screaming, Jesus, don't let him die. Jesus, don't let him die. And this man came and I'm getting this goosebumps again. This man came and embraced her and turned her away. And when they shocked me back the first time, he's like, the Lord answered your prayer. Oh, and then just went away. And then here's the thing: no one saw him. No one saw him. My mom saw the hug. No one saw him. And that's like an angel among us, right? That's so cool. And then and then, so I was away. I was like in that place where the Bible talks about that perfect peace beyond understanding. And I was felt like I was part of the divine matrix, like this fabric, this, you know, Greg Brady talks about this woven fabric that we're all in, and we send signals emotionally through this fabric of what we call like when you talk about that vibrational, you know, like vibrational. I was just like floating and so blissful and happy and perfect. And I felt this what I describe as a healing energy coming from India. I knew it was an energy coming from India. And then they put me into a medical coma, and I was gone for a while. And then when I came back, they um told me my dad started a prayer chain, and there was a church congregated in India that was praying for me. There's something about coming together. You talk about Joe Despenso, like his things that he does for sending love to DC, is like something about coming together with a set intention and sending love.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

That's amazing. Yeah. It's so much bigger than what we think. Like I love it that it was someone, a church from India, and then people from India, because there is no time and space other than what we believe, you know? So that's that's a perfect uh way to get past that. And I'm fascinating that you were a minister. What kind of what denomination were you in?

SPEAKER_02 26:55

So I grew up Methodist, but then in the military, I joined this full gospel evangelical, like tongue speaking in tongues and healings and all this cool jazz.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

And yeah, well, so you were drawn to that bigger thing, as I think we all are. Yeah, my father was a Methodist minister as well. So I know a little bit about Methodists.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

And you know, you're right. I love what you said about the churches box God in, you know? Yeah. And I also love that we said, you know, that's Jesus really was here to show us what's possible, right? I mean, he wasn't saying worship me, he was saying follow me, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

So what are we doing? We're um, you know, we're worshiping him instead of getting that he's showing us, he he demonstrated what we are capable of, who we really are, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Right. And that's the other theory then that I'm on is I think Paul ruined it. Like, like in the book of Acts, it talks about this other guy called Barnabas, where the people just loved him and he was healing people and they just and they didn't like Paul. He was long-winded and boring and didn't do miracles. I think he took a part of the law with him. He left the law, but he brought the law into it. And Mary Magdalene, that's where it's at. You know, she knew what's down.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Okay, so I want to read more about Mary Magdalene, and I'm wondering if you can recommend a book. I want to find more. I hear that there's a colony like in the south of France or something. Are you familiar with all that?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

I don't know about the colony of south of France, but I know that you can watch the movie Mary Magdalene that's based off the Book of Mary. So Joaquin Phoenix plays Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

And his wife plays Mary.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Ah, his real wife, his wife in real life?

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Yes, they weren't married at the time, but they're married now.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Okay. Oh, I think I know who you're talking about, who his wife is now.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Rooney, I think is her name.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

What's her name?

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Rooney or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Mara Rooney, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Okay, well, so it's a movie. Mary Magdalene.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

And it's based off the Gnostic scripture that was found. So this dude, I don't know, do you know much about the Gnostic text?

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Well, it's funny. You talk about synchronicity. Just today, I ordered a book by Elaine Pagles.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Oh, she's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Gnostic Gospels. Yeah. I think that's the name of it, but something called Gnostic. Because I've always wanted to know a little bit more about that. It seems like every time I've gone looking, I didn't find it. So just today I ordered, or maybe a couple days ago, I ordered, and then you mentioned it's like, okay, I guess. It's the universe.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

It's the universe. Yeah. So it's it's so trippy because, like, again, hypnosis and doing past life regressions. I've come across two books where people have like gone back and they saw that they were one of the teachers. Because during that time there was the two sects, the Sadducees and the Pharisees. And then there were also what we don't hear about is the Essenes. And the Egyptians called the Essenes therapeuti or healers. And that was the group that Jesus was part of. Yeah. And then so they were also historians. And so they wrote things down on papyrus. And so you had all the books. It was a little bit like a couple hundred years later, but they made their way down to Egypt during all the persecution. And they're burning literal books of the Bible, right? And so all these scrolls on papyrus, they hid them in a cave in Egypt. And some boy in 1945 was sent to go get some kindling for his mom to make dinner. So he went to his cave and found this jar with all this papyrus. And he's like, Look, this will burn well. And they started throwing it in the fire. They're throwing the Bible in the fire. And then she was like, Wait, what's written on it? And it's this weird language, this is the Coptic language. And then it was the book of Mary Magdalene that she wrote. And then also the Gospel of Thomas, which is a huge Gnostic scripture.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

So it's groovy, man.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Groovy! I love that word.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

So so we know the Book of Miracles is your bread and butter. Like this is what has so influenced and changed your life. Are there any books else like out there that has kind of like rang that same same bell?

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Well, I like to say I'm sort of spiritually promiscuous.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

I've read a lot of different things. I've been interested in a lot of different things. I I guess I call the Courts in Europe as my main tweets because I do keep going back to that again and again. But I've read so many different books. I mean, I I don't know. I mean, I think, as I said, right now, I feel like my main teachers are my trees, nature, Mother Gaia. But over the years, you know, in my spiritual path, so to speak, I mean, it's kind of funny when we talk about our spiritual journey because from the moment we're born, I mean, that's the truth of who we are, right? We really are spiritual, you know, metaphysical, meta means above the physical. So we are more than the physical. So you know, spiritual journey, but I feel called more now. I still read and I still, but I'm not quite as oh, new author. I need to find read this. You know, I'm more trusting that I'm being guided in different ways. Again, words aren't quite as interesting to me anymore. So, but as far as books that have really impacted me over the years, let me think. Um, well, Course in Miracles for sure. I love um, I used to read some Wayne Dyer books. I liked Joda Spenza. Um gosh, nothing's really, I mean, but I believe me, if it's out there, I've probably read it. I've read some Marianne Williamson books. I mean, she wrote Return Like, she brought Course in Miracles to more of a public face as well back whenever she was on Oprah or whatever. But at that time I was already doing the Courts in Miracles, but I know she introduced a lot of people to Courts in Miracles. Um I don't know, I'll probably think of 20 books that I love after I uh after we get off this interview or whatever. But but certainly I've I've been a real, you know, I used to say I used to say a lot, I'm a seeker, but I don't say that anymore because there is nothing to seek.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

No, we are here. This is it. And I think as long as we're seeking, that's to assume we're not there. I mean, why could we seek if we already have it and we already do? So, um, and that's part of you know, my I I don't say that anymore because I'm not seeking. I mean, I'm just realizing or appreciating or just loving, be you know, just yeah loving, you know, just loving what is, what what's here, you know? What else could I want? What else could I seek? I mean, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

That's a great description, too, because I love uh what you're saying too about the music. And as you're talking about, you just are like you're not seeking the end of the song, you're enjoying the music.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Yes, beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. And also I like how you said things are just kind of like drawn to, like you just ordered the Elaine Pagles book, and then we're talking about the Gnostic scripture. It's just kind of funny how that is. And when you're talking about just being, I feel like that's when you're downloading the information. So you're not seeking it out. It's just like messages are coming to you from somewhere. Do you feel that? Like the trees are talking to you.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yeah, when there's something I need to know. I mean I still am appreciating stillness a lot. Um, and again, I do trust that when I need to know something, or when there's something I'm meant to do, or someone I'm supposed to call, or some, you know, some task that the universe thinks I might be good at, you know, that I will be guided in that direction. So I don't have to be, oh gosh, what do I do next? I one of the ways I do get my guidance, I'm I'm I've always been a big journal writer. I'm into not a carry notebook with me, but I've always been one that like to write. And I feel like a lot of things come to me that way. I mean, a lot of things that are, you know, silly, trite, whatever. But I also get downloads, so to speak, um, sometimes, you know, in my writing. And basically it's just a way of connecting with that higher force, that frequency, because we're all connected, but we're just not aware of it. And it's just a way I become aware of it for me. But everybody has different ways, you know. I there's not one size fits all. We all, if we just stop and listen, I think that silence and being quiet and still, I think that is a real, it's hard for us now because we're all so distracted. But I feel like in that um stopping and being still, there's more room for the frequency to make contact, you know, to get you on that. I call it the divine buzz, you know. But the word I often use for God, the divine buzz.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah, yeah. I love that.

unknown 36:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

And I had a healer, uh like an energy healer on this podcast a little bit ago, and she's like looking at me and she's like, Ryan, you're like living up here. Like she could see my chakras, and I'm like, I'm just floating up here all the time. It's like you may, you may be one of those that can maybe benefit in a little grounding sometimes, too.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Go outside in your with your bare feet. It'll be amazed.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

What part of the where do you live?

SPEAKER_02 36:35

I live in Connecticut, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Oh, okay. I lived in Connecticut for a while.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

I remember the book. Yeah, you want to tell that story? I I love that story about when you left Connecticut, about you were like seven months pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Oh, yeah, when I left Connecticut.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Well, I had gone out there to do a rebirthing training. It was a nine-month program, and I lived in Bantham, Connecticut, and Bethlehem, Connecticut. You know, Washington, Connecticut is where we all met. There were 30 people from all over the um all over the world that were doing this this rebirthing training. But anyway, after it was over, you know, I'm a freelance writer, I just stayed there. And I was living with one of the trainers, you know, it was kind of a weird story. We were in Greece, and Bob, the head guy, put us together in a room one night. He was always trying to plug people in, get them to do different things. So anyway, we thought, okay, we'll show him, we'll just hang out. But anyway, one thing led to another. And then I was pregnant, and it didn't work out with that trainer. So I'm leaving seven of us pregnant. I'm driving across the country, like, oh my gosh, what do I do now? And again, I'd already been reading the Course in Miracles, but it's like, you know what? You I need to say, you know, I have no clue what's happening here. I mean, that's one thing the Course in Miracles says, you know, let go of your agenda, let go of your idea, let him, let your thing do it. So as I'm driving across the country, seven months pregnant, I'm like, man, I don't even know where I'm going. Things look kind of bad, or you know, to the naked eye, it might look bad, but I always kind of had faith that it was gonna work out. And indeed, I would I just turned my life over and you know, everything's turned out perfectly. You know, I had a beautiful daughter, I started writing books, I settled down and began writing books. And again, you know, I feel like we're always being guided to do what we're meant to do if we're just listen.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

So yeah, I don't know. Just listen.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

Yeah, it's it's funny. Like I think, you know, it's being it's it feels like you're just water, you know, just you're just you're just guiding down, and just you're so powerful too. Like, like it's easy, and that brings up the other book, the other big spiritual book for me is the Tao Di Ching. And then that ties into what I want to do for my book. Like, I want to write it feels like the universe put it in my mind is the Tao of the Laundry.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Oh, I like it.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

And the tagline will be what dying taught me about living.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

I love it. That's great. That's a perfect title.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Yeah, and it's like the laundry, right? Because there's another book that my psychologist clued me in on because again, this I'm like this, like, ooh, that was a cool experience. I want to have it. I'm floating up here. And then, but I gotta do the laundry. And so the book was after the ecstasy, then the laundry.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

I love it. I love it. I think it's a great title. And titles make a big difference, too, you know. It's a good title, good subtitle. It sounds like you've got one, and that that does a lot, you know, to get people interested in books.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

So yeah. And what's the path these days for budding writers? Because I have a few people listening that are writers as well. And then so is it self-publishing, or can I just go knock on Hay House's door, be like, hey, here's the title?

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Well, you know, Hay House says that you have to have an agent. I mean, that's what it would say on their website, and that's what they suggest. However, I sent my book in over what they call the transom, you know, e square back when I wrote it. This is 15 years ago now. And even though I it wasn't sent in with an agent, which they say you have to have, they did pluck it out of the slush pile or whatever, and and chose to publish it. But you know, that was my guidance, and that's what you know was my path in.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

These days, I don't know. I mean, the publishing industry has changed a lot. And I think for people, I think self-publishing could be the way to go these days, because the truth of it is a publisher now will ask you to do a lot of your own publicity anyway. Right. So by not giving them such a big cut, I don't know if you've noticed off the book I I just came out with in December, I did self-publish it. It was kind of an experiment, it's a little different than some of my other books. So I did um try do it that way, and it was relatively easy. I mean, I had to hire an artist and an editor and all that. But but it's been a good experience. So I don't know what the way to go is now. I mean, for one thing, just write it, just give it over to the muses. The muses are the bigger thing and just let it come through you. And then you also have to trust that that bigger thing, the guidance of the muses, will show you where the book's meant to go. Because we really don't know. You know, it is not up to us, really. It's up to us to do the work or to, you know, hear the signals to write it down, to do that. That's our job. And the rest of the job is kind of the you know, the bigger thing. We'll work it out. And as I said in one of my books, Art Your Soul Reloaded, you know, maybe it's just the neighbor next door that needs to read it. I mean, you know, we don't really know. All we know is that we're being called a force is compelling us to put pen to paper. And then we just have to kind of trust that and let go and let it happen. So that's that's my advice.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

That's uh, you know, those are ringing all the bells because it reminds me of two books. One is The War of Art.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

I love that book.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Yeah, and he's talking about like praying to the muse and letting the muse entertain, the genius inspire you. That's your that's your gift, right? There is being in the work, and then we're not responsible for what happens after.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

And then the other part is the Bhagavad Gita, and Krishna is instructing, he's like, you don't have the rights to the fruit of your labor. Your your blessing is the labor.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

And it is a blessing. I mean, I think when people think they want to write a book because, oh, I want to make a living being a writer, well, that could happen. That certainly happened for me. But that's not why the that's not the real motivation. The motivation would be because you're feeling compelled. And we learn more about ourselves a lot of times than you know, any other way. So it's just a really good tool for us, you know. Being a writer is a good tool for me, uh, for me to make sense of things, for me to understand things, you know. So, you know, we live in a society that's so commercial oriented, so materialistic oriented. So everybody, you know, yeah, you gotta sell, yeah, you gotta, you know, sell a million copies. But is that why? No, it's because you gain great gifts from writing. And I believe anybody could, everybody could. I mean, I heard a thing once, I think I put this in one of my books. The only book that will ever change your life is the one you write yourself. Because, you know, that's your wisdom, that's your message from God or whatever, the muse, whatever you want to call it. So I it is a very powerful thing. And it's, you know, discipline. I mean, that sounds like a word nobody wants. I mean, I like the fun. I mean, I'm all about the fun.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

But it also takes some kind of discipline. And by that I mean just showing up. I mean, it's not like you have to crack rocks open. You just have to show up. Sit your butt down on the on the chair and and be there with your

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Yeah, etching it into stone. Yeah. And it's funny as you're talking because I'm like envisioning I I've already shared with you the title of this book the universe gave me. And yet I find myself playing Pokemon.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

I just gotta be like, okay, I just gotta go chisel this into a stone real quick, and then I could go back to Pokemon.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Yeah, join the club. I mean, every single artist, creator has that. Well, like Stephen Pressfield says in that book, you know, all the voices are gonna say, no, come do this, come do that. In fact, what is he called? What is he called? Resistance. He uses the term.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Resistance, yeah. War with resistance, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Yes. So that is so every writer deals with that. So if you're if Pokemon's what you're being called to, that's join the club. Every writer has it. You know, answering that creative muse. It it I do talk a lot about how um or I have stories. There's 52 weeks in. There's a story every week from an artist who's very well known, like Steven Spielberg, um, you know, great authors. And they also have those doubting stories, those, oh, I didn't do a story. So it is across the board. Every genius you've ever known has had those kind of stories.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Oh, thank you for calling me a genius. So thank you. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Well, as um as uh uh well, what's her name? Elizabeth Gilbert said in her TED Talk, we all have access to the genius. That's like the force. Yeah, and then our job is just to channel it in. So when we started calling the person themselves a genius, that's where we got in trouble because then we're oh, it's all me, I have to do this, and then our ego gets involved. You know what I mean? So let the genius in you, through you, uh speak.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Yeah. It's like in the Course of Miracles. I appreciate that you wrote it for yourself as well, so that I could see what you're thinking in it. I had that book too, and it's it's a delight. And I especially get a laugh when you go to those days and you're like, what's it called? Rip that sucker out. Those days, you're like, this one doesn't apply to me. I want this big buffet of blessings, and for whatever reason, like for me, I don't like cucumbers. You know, that's a cucumber for me.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

And then back to Elizabeth Gilbert, because I love that you brought that up in her book Big Magic. She's talking about having an idea that comes to her, like the universe gives it to her. And if she goes and in my analogy, goes and plays Pokemon instead, that the universe will be like, What do you do it? And then it'll just give that exact idea to someone else.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

She tells that story about a it was a book that Ann Packett ended up writing. They were they had over lunch or something, and it it was like the exact same plot, basically. It was going down to the rainforest, and somebody was sent down there, and I can't remember all of it, but it was and Elizabeth Gilbert had worked on it, she'd done research on it, and then you know, when she the guy that she met in Heatray Love, he got trouble getting to the country, so she just dropped it, didn't work on it for well. So the muses said, Okay, we'll we'll go to Aunt Paget next, and then she went ahead and did it. So I love that. You know, that is so you better get your book out, or someone else is gonna do your laundry book.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

I know, man. It's such a great title. Yeah, all right. I'll I'll have to manifest that tomorrow on my laptop.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

Well, just you know, start working on it, give her 15 minutes. Start with baby stuff, just do a little bit here and there, and just okay, again, that don't expect much from yourself. You just gotta as as Anne Lamotte says, write shitty first drafts.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

You know, okay, yeah. Let's go back to I love Anne Lamott, man. She is a treasure, she's a gem. Yes. And when you're talking about write your shitty first draft, you talked about before about sometimes you'll have these things come up that'll be like folly or trite is, I think is the word used. Do you publish trite or do you have a separate channel for that to go?

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Because I feel that's no, the point is I'm just there and all kinds of crap's gonna come through, right? So you then you kind of know the thing that sort of, you know, that frequency we were talking about, eventually that kind of takes over and you just know this is the path to go. In the meantime, a lot of the other stuff might come through. And we what we what we can't do is judge ourselves or get down on ourselves and think, oh, I can't do that. You know what I mean? Those voices that we all have. So that's where you just keep where you persist, you know, you just persist. So, no, there's all kinds of crap that's gonna come up. You just have to expect it, you know. That's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Yeah, like I, you know, it's these weird ideas. Like yesterday, I was like, what if I made another YouTube channel and it was just a sock puppet and it's talking spiritual advice and it'd be like the guru puppet, you know? Like, I think that's silly and stupid, but it's funny. Like, you know, like well, listen to this.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

A friend of mine who's in one of my possibility posse here in town, she is a ventriloquist, she's also an attorney, and she kind of does these little YouTube. I think she does them on YouTube or Facebook or something, but she does have her little puppets, and she does do some of that. It may not be as profound as the stuff you're talking about, but she'll do little funny little things like that. So hey.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

You never know, you never know. And that's part of the the beauty of art, is you can just play. I feel like it it's one part curiosity, another part play. Um, and I want to talk about these manifesting, and the word miracle comes to my mind when you're talking about it, and it drives me bonkers. That's kind of why I'm doing hypnosis, is because for some people they see what I'll call the miracle. And then there's these other people that don't see the miracle. What's going on there? Like what what's happening when we feel like we're aligned with the universe and like our light is shining on others, and it feels like things should move, and sometimes things don't move. And I don't know what how to describe that.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Well, I I would say in that instance that people aren't paying attention, they only feel stuck. It kind of goes back to that what reality are you living in? You know, there's a lot of superpositions out there in the world, and we get stuck in one superposition that feels like it's not moving or getting whatever, but on some other frequency it is moving. So we have the choice on which frequency we focus in on, and it comes a lot back from gratitude into opening our eyes and to trusting something beyond ourselves. I don't know. That's that's the first thought that comes to mind. Because you know, I told a story in E Square, you know, that's the book before E Cubed, and about a friend of mine who was at the airport, and you know those buses that come around, she was trying to get back to her parking lot, and this woman had like three or four suitcases, and she was just mumbling and grumbling, and she's like, There's that bus that takes you back to the oh, yeah, yeah. And she stood there, and my friend sat there and watched her, and this bus had circled three times, but she was so focused on what was wrong and why wasn't it coming, and these horrible heavy suitcases, she didn't see it. And you know, I put that in the book, and one of the blessings of having written this book, I get all these emails from people, and I love it, it makes it sound like a phone. I love it, and they usually start with, you're never gonna believe this. But I've heard a lot of stories of people that told me that same kind of thing happened, where when they were grumbling about it, complaining, not letting it in, then it they couldn't see it. So we blind ourselves because all the time, every day, like I said in that blog post, it is our birthday, and we are being presented with gifts every day. Yeah. The question is, are we open to seeing them? And it really comes down to us, you know. It's not about that the gifts aren't there or that the manifestations aren't happening. Look, even when we decide we want to manifest a particular thing, the minute we make the intention, we are connected to it. I mean, it's already there, right? But we have to get in the frequency, in the point where we can see it, where we can notice it. Because otherwise, it can be there, it can be standing right beside you, and you just don't notice it.

SPEAKER_02 52:29

So I I loved you that you brought into that bus story your article that you posted about the avalanche of these blessings. And I'm picturing her standing there with that bus in front of her and just a whole like a dump truck, a huge dump truck, one of those like five-ton ones that are just dumping blessings on her, and she's got her umbrella up. I love how you talk about attention too, because in the hypnosis community, that's what we are looking at. And even Joe Despenza is talking about like how he fused his spine back together through focused attention. And then you brought in the word manifesting, and I've been big into it lately, thanks to you, and the Book of Miracles. I manifested like a negative thing this morning. This morning I was in my mind, I was like, for whatever reason, time is one of my roadblocks. Time. I'm like, I'm running late, I'm going to get in trouble. I'm running late, I'm going to get in trouble. And I felt the anger bubbling up and tightening in me. And you know what? I got to work. I was a minute late, and my boss was actually the one that was late. So it wasn't that. It's back to the universe having a sense of humor. I got I did get in trouble though for something else that came out nowhere. Yeah, it's like the universe, it's it works both ways. Like when I say I'm going to manifest, you know, you mentioned in your book this lady that manifested this truck with like pink with white dots. I'm like, oh, that'd be cool. I want to see something pink with dots. On my walk home today, there was a fire hydrant that was pink with dots on it. I was like, I've never seen a fire hydrant like that before in my life.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

That's great. Yeah. The funny thing, you could walk by tomorrow and it might not be there. Well, I'm not saying that's gonna happen, but that is literally how malleable things are and how we allow what we'll see from those neural pathways in our head that we block everything else, you know.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

So why can't we like just I want to believe that I can just like Star Wars, lift a TIE fighter? You know, like I want to believe like I can manifest a million dollars on my desk right now, like poof, you know. And we talk about these yogis that manifest fruit.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

Right. I wrote about that in one of my books. I mean, that and that happens, but most of us are the paradigm we live in, the frequency we live in, does not allow for that. We live in a very materialistic paradigm, and that's what's happening now, is we're recognizing this materialist paradigm isn't working the way we put it up. We need some big changes here. So I think really we're doing a service to the world when we let go of all those beliefs that suggest that couldn't be possible. But because we're very much, I mean, this is what we grew up in, this is the you know, the waters in which we swim. But um, as we let go and allow the bigger thing to do it, you know, as a genius within us, the then then those kind of things become easier and we're just they're just normal. You know, part of the reason we don't see it is because we don't see it. Like in Peter Pan, isn't there a a little quote in there where he says I I quit flying once someone told me I couldn't or say it? I don't have a something like that. You know, what do we believe? What do we believe? And what are we cementing into our reality? And that's why I say I will never discount any possibility because I don't want to cement in that oh, that's impossible. Nothing is impossible. Yeah, we make them impossible, we believe things are impossible, but are they, or is it just our belief? I mean, that's the big question.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

Right. I think it's uh chapter 33 of the Course in Miracles workbook. It says, Through my holiness, nothing is impossible, or something like that. Yeah, and you talk about sin. I don't know how you say it. You said it like um the frequency. And I believe how do we do that? How do we increase that frequency? I believe you touched on it with that word gratitude. Is that how we get into the higher frequency, or what do you think about it?

SPEAKER_00 56:42

Well, that's to me the easiest way, and the only one that I can I mean, I think people maybe with hypnosis can do. I mean, I think there's a lot of different tools that would work, but the simple one, I'm all about smooth and easy. I say that all the time. Make it smooth and easy. And to wake up and be grateful for everything, then you're not putting up resistance, you're not um blocking those things. So I think gratitude, I mean, a lot of people poo-poo it and go, oh, gratitude. That's you know, but it's so powerful. I mean, what if we already have everything we could ever possibly need? I mean, I believe we do. So I'm grateful for that. And I only see that because you know, so it to me, gratitude, that is the easiest way. The only way I can spend I don't I don't know how to hypnotize people, I don't know how to do anything other than, you know, be gross.

SPEAKER_02 57:36

Yeah. I I love witnessing just now for those that are listening. Pam was talking about like having that sense of gratitude and wondering what the future is. She's like looking up, her eyes were looking up, like she's she's envisioning a possible future for herself, like a grand, mysterious, blessing future. Like it felt like you just experienced that just now, just talking about that.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

Yeah, I don't know that I was specifically visualizing, but I was knowing that that's the knowing, yeah. I I felt like I I trust that, that that is the truth of the world. Like the system where it's frustrating and all those kind of things, that can't stand. I mean, that can't last because it's not true. All these things that we're seeing, they can't last, but they're not true. What is true is this love, this possibility, there are no limits. That is true, and that is what will last. So this other temporary BS is temporary stuff that we've created that we don't have to hang on to anymore.

SPEAKER_02 58:46

I love that. And I'm wondering about you mentioned this ease, and it goes back to the Tao Ti-Ching and it talks about this effortless effort. And I remember when I first started this business, I'm and now I said, I'm gonna do just like Alex Ramosy says, you know, I'm going to get up, crack of dawn, and I'm going to work, work, work. And it seemed like the more I strived, the further away the goal was. And then now when I'm holding it with kind of a like a loose grip, kind of like, I wonder what will happen. I'm just going to let the universe, you know, if I feel like I should be doing this, then I'll do it. And as I do that, then the blessings come versus me forcing the issue.

SPEAKER_00 59:29

Always works better.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

Well, uh, I just don't, it's it's like a paradox. It blows the rational mind. You and it you see it on Facebook ads all the time. Like, this is the funnel, this is the way you do it, this is how you should run your business. I don't know. Like, okay, what do you think about this? I'll pitch you an idea. So in the hypnosis business, I'm thinking about being a healer, right? Whatever healing means, lowering pain, or we've seen some evidence where hypnosis can do miracles. It looks like miracles with cancer, or like Michael Elner were talking about, working with AIDS patients and miracles with the AIDS patients. And to me, it just feels rotten to say, pay me X amount of dollars, and it might or might not work. And then I think of like Vipassana in Massachusetts, they have the Vipassana where you take the Vipassana, they won't accept any money until you take it. And then once you take it, then it's donation. Whatever you want, you pay. I don't know. What it seems like that's kind of a cooler experiment to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

Right. Well, I often have written about the gift economy, and I'm a real fan of the gift economy. And I feel like that is more of a truthful. I feel like we really want to give. I think that again, that paradigm that we're trained into is that you know, that we have limitations and that if we give, we won't have. And we're trained, you know, get more, get more is that consumerism culture, capitalist culture. And it's really the opposite of the truth of who we really are. And when we give, I mean, I don't want to say people should do that because that's that's the whole problem. It's just a natural thing. It's a natural thing that we want to do, but we're trained that we need to work hard and that and that there's not enough and that the world is limited. As long as we're taught that, then we're gonna act the way people act with that belief. But with the gift economy, all kinds of different things can happen. So I'm I'm a little bit about experimenting in that regard. And um money's almost, and and I've never been that interested in money. I'm lucky in that I've never been, it just wasn't interesting to me. I kind of like Peace Pilgrim. I said, you know, she used to say, ah, making money's easy. Um, but this is what I really, you know, but this is more what I really want to do is to love, you know, be out there and give love. That's what we really want to do. That's who we are, but we're taught that we're not. We're these people that need to protect ourselves and build up financial capital. You know, all the taught.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:22

It's funny, I laugh because it reminds me, I think it was third grade. I was in recess, it was Monday after Sunday school, and they said, Jesus says, love one another. So I was going around recess. I love you, I love you, I love you. And then some kid went and ratted me out to the teacher. Ryan's over there telling me, telling everyone he loves them. It's weird. And she's like, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

Wow, that's interesting. I mean, what can be a better use of your time? I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:48

Yeah, it's funny. And then when you're talking about the giving, I forget which book of yours you're talking about, where it I think you withdrew like maybe $10,000 or a substantial amount of money, and you went out and just gave it away. Is that right? So tell me more about that. That's fun. Did like the universe whisper like, try this and see what happens?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

You know, I don't remember quite what made me do that experiment, other than I I do believe that you cannot outgive God. So you can like outgive the universe. And I mean, the Courts of Miracles says the more I give, the more I have, or something to that effect, you know. But so what happened is I just went and withdrew a bunch of money. And so my partner and I, we made the sign that said, we are housed, fed, and deeply blessed. We need to give. And then we just had all this money, and then we would just give. And it was funny how people like, oh no, no, don't give. You know, we have this hesitation to take our gifts, to claim our gifts. And so that was a lesson I learned from that. How, oh no, people people don't want to receive, or they're afraid to receive, or there's got to be a catch. They didn't trust the receiving. There's got to be a catch, right? So that happened. But um I don't know, it was just it was really so it was basically kind of a social experiment, so to speak. And it was, it was a I I loved it. You know, eventually we were able to give all the money away. But people were funny about it for a long time. So anyway, we just stood on there, you know, like people say, you know, you see those signs, help me.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

I need I need stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

So we were just saying, no, we we have everything we need, so we need to give. That's what I need. I need to love, I need to give. And I feel like that is what we all need, but we're not taught that. We're taught that that's dangerous and what you'd be a fool to do that. And, you know, as long as that's the lesson you get. You know, the foundation I started, my CashGrat222 Foundation, it's all about changing the dominant paradigm. As long as we believe and as long as we celebrate um amassing material things and um being secure and all those things, as long as people believe that that's the most important thing, we're gonna keep having the culture that we have. And it makes us sad. It doesn't, it's not who we really are. So we feel unhappy because we're not, we're hoarding our love and we don't want to do that. We aren't really happy that way. So, um anyway, so you know, I I guess that's what I'm if I have an intention at all, it's about, you know, just changing consciousness. And I'm very aware that whose consciousness can I change? My consciousness. That's the only thing I have any control over. Sadly. You know, that's no, it's I'm glad because but as as my channels get clearer and clearer, then I can give more love, then I can be more who I'm meant to be, and I can shine more light. And that's that's that's all that's the best I can do. I mean, I don't have control over anything else.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:54

I want to talk about the two. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I want to talk about the two two two because you just Recently awarded your grants this year. I want to talk about those. And it's funny you mentioned about when you're giving away, because it reminds me of for a period of time, I was interacting with some of these people on my mailing list, and I would hear these stories and I'm like, I know I can help. Let me help you. I was like, don't worry about money. This is free. There's no catch. And almost like those words like raised your hackles, like free, no catch. What are you talking about? There's got to be catching when you said there's no catch. I was like, no, legit, I just want to help. And they're like, you know, like, uh is that weird phenomenon. It's like the more I tried to give for free, the more resistant people became.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:43

It's against the way we're taught. Like that quote said, everything is backwards and upside down, the way you believe. And that's just one more example of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

Okay, so let's talk just for a minute about 222. The two you had two awards this year, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:58

Like in who we continue to support a couple projects that we started a while back. But the two new ones that we did this year, the one I was the most excited about and we gave the most money to was the Earth Elders. And it's an international group of indigenous elders from around the world that are basically fulfilling prophecy that, you know, when the Industrial Revolution started and you know, we no longer were listening to the wisdom of the earth, you know, and then this other way of life came. You know, the it was like they call it the like the parable of the condor or something, but where the wings, like the wings have gotten in balance, you know, the masculine wing has been flying, so we're kind of flying in loops now. But as the feminine wing rises, you know, then we'll become more balanced, but we have to live in tune with nature. And so indigenous people have a lot of wisdom and a lot of again, what I'm saying about you walking on the earth barefoot and getting that wisdom from trees. And you know, that sounds crazy according to our paradigm, according to what we believe. But again, it's all about changing consciousness. So anyway, that's what I was led to um to donate to, you know, this year. And every year for the last eight years, you know, we've given to again an organization or person that's trying to change the consciousness, because until we change the consciousness, we'll just keep getting the same thing. So that was one of the projects. The other project was out in Portland, Maine. And there's a guy out there that have a music studio, and he helps, you know, immigrant kids and you know, kids that, you know, don't maybe have the advantages that some people do and help them make music, uh, learn about music, that kind of a thing. And so those are the two new big projects that we did this year. And, you know, it's my honor every year to do this on 222, it's a thing my daughter and I had, and I feel like she's still with me, she's still in the air, I breathe. And, you know, the world's just so much bigger than we understand. You know, it's not like she's gone. She's just here in a different form. So again, it goes back to those beliefs we have, those with the boxes you talked about. The religion puts us in. You know, I want to smash out of every box. I don't want to have any impossibility. I'm ready to, you know, let it all in.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

I love those two organizations. I want to talk about 222 more. Um, I just could go on for it. I don't want to take you all your time. Those organizations going backwards, you talk about the music with immigrants. It's funny because my fiance works with the immigrant refugee uh service, and I think that's beautiful. I think there's something magical about it. Like kids from Afghanistan and Pakistan and Syria, and like they're just just sweethearts. Like she's telling me this one girl was Christian from I forget what country, and another girl was Muslim, and they're like best friends now, you know, these teenage girls, and it's just it's a beautiful thing. And then when you're talking about the earth, the indigenous stuff, that's that's really where a lot of what we do in hypnosis comes from is these indigenous, like in South Carolina, they had the hoodoo and then the voodoo, and then then like the Hawaiian traditions and all these indigenous cultures, it's all saying the same thing, you know, like it's that healing that comes from the earth and something there.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

Every religion knows this, or every but you know, it it gets warped somehow in the translation. But yes, you know, it all goes back to that that bigger thing, that mystical, mysterious thing that we can't see. That's the problem, it's invisible, sort of. So that's why we see its effects, but we don't we can't see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:32

So yeah, and it's about I love what you're doing with 222 is that you're awakening the consciousness of the earth, and it is happening, and that the tide is moving. You could see it, people are becoming more awake to these invisible things and feeling it and that music and that dance of life. And just briefly for the listeners that aren't aware of the 222, can you tell us a little bit about their origins of that?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:58

Yeah, um, my daughter uh Tasman passed unexpectedly one week after her 25th birthday, and admit it was a big shock. She had a cerebral aneurysm and was just gone, like so quick, and it was just a shock. And um I as you can imagine, I mean, she was my only child. I was her only mother, early parent, you know, so it was a big shock. So luckily, I had um some experience, like, you know, near-death. I know some near-death people. I always believed in a bigger picture. So I, you know, it was a little bit easier for me than it might be for some people, but you know, very difficult. But I felt guided right away to um start this foundation with her help. Like she and I still do this together. And the first year, you know, she she passed in October, October 15th. And I was already scheduled to go to India. So the first one, you know, she led me straight to this place called She Ros Hangout, and that was the first gift that we gave, February 22 of 2019. Um, went to India. Everything about it, we went to the Taj Mahal, which was actually named for a woman, you know, this mogul built this to his favorite wife, and her name was Mom Paz. And it took 20,000 workers 22 years to build this thing. So there's the 222. It was a monument to love. I mean, everything about it was just mystical, and it it it kind of is a mysterious mystical place anyway. All India has so much of that. But anyway, yeah. So that happened, and then we left there, and then we ran into the Shiro's Hangout, and I felt like Taz led me there to, you know, that was the our first donation the first year. And then since then, you know, we've gone on to do all kinds of different projects all over the world, and it's been very rewarding and very um life-giving. And again, you know, one consciousness changing at a time, you know, that's that's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:52

I love the fact that you I keep saying I love, you know, we see this is the central thread. That's the golden thread through this whole thing, yeah. Is that you are doing this with her and that you're still seeing those numbers. I was trying to do something about something that happened with me with 222. I thought I wrote it down, but oh well. It's the same thing, like when preparing for this, like these synchronicities. So I'm I'm honored to see what you're doing with your daughter in this. And I I appreciate how you shared just a glimpse of how you dealt with that difficulty. And it feels like sometimes those difficulties are are moments to transform. And it's hard to see that in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:44

Oh, it it is so hard to see that. That one's still, I still, you know, would have chosen differently, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:53

Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:55

Yeah, that that's still a tough one for me, but I also love the expansiveness and this kind of bigger knowing and feeling that you know, the the belief that we are only a body is the only thing that stops me from really feeling her, speaking with her, communicating with her. And, you know, that's a very strong paradigm that we all believe. You know, the physical is it, but the physical is just a tiny part. You know, you've heard about uh dark matter and dark energy. What we see is five percent, four to five percent of what's there of the universe. So this other dark energy, dark matter, um, and it's not dark as in bad, it's just we can't see it. We don't know it, but we think we know everything from the 4% that our little eyeballs can see, but there's so much more there. And Ron, I have a question for you. How long do you usually do your interviews? I I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:51

Oh, I'm about I'm done. Do you have just and thank you again for being here?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

Yeah, I just wasn't sure. You know, sometimes people do these three and a half hours, and I thought, oh, I didn't ask how long.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:01

Yeah, yeah, I have Pokemon to catch. So uh before we let you go, and I do want to um maybe get some names of those people that you your foundation is given to, because I would love to have them on here as well and talk about what they're doing because my whole podcast is awakened with Ryan DeYoung, and it's about reconnecting with that experience that I had in my NDE, about that afterlife experience, and that's my message about raising the consciousness. And so that would align totally with a guest on the podcast. So be honored to get their get their names of everyone that you've given to and partnered with.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

Yeah, well, on my website, I think if you go to the 222 foundation section, below that talks about each year, and I think I've got the websites and the contact, or at least the websites where you can get the contact information there. So um, yeah, so it's pretty easy to get. I I easy.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:59

I'll look them up then, yeah. Because I think that'd be so cool. And it's funny you're talking about seeing things because I've sat with a lot of hospice patients, and they always it's it's that veil begins to lift and they begin to see the loved ones that have gone before them, and they have conversations and they say things that they know is from their loved ones, you know. Like it's I love that. The idea I would love to see like a daycare come. Like there's something about babies, like putting a baby on someone that's dying, and it's like that whole cycle of life is just wow, that's an interesting idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:41

Yeah, beautiful, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:42

Yeah. Okay, so before I let you go, again, thank you so much. And we'll have for everyone listening, watching all the links on how to get in touch with you. I highly recommend every book. There's not one book of yours I I've read that I didn't get something from and make my life better from. Uh, before we do let you go, is there anything that you would like to say to the world that may be listening in this moment?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:07

Oh gosh. Um, no matter how much you think you're loved, I guarantee you you're loved so much more. Um so I don't know, I guess I would suggest not listening to that voice in your head that tells you any limitation, any voice of limitation, any voice that tells you something's not possible. So I guess quit listening to the voice in your head and listen for the truth of how much you are loved and how how beautiful you are and how how lovable you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:42

That is awesome. Thank you again. May your days be blessed. I'll see you later, friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:50

Yeah, sounds good. Thank you so much, Ryan. It was great fun.