Pablo Amira: Mentalism, Alchemy, and the Mystery Inside Every Moment

In this episode of AWAKEN, Ryan sits down with Pablo Amira — psychotherapist, hypnotherapist, mentalist, musician, and the mind behind Metanoia — for one of the most philosophically layered conversations the show has produced. Pablo joins from Chile, surrounded by at least five guitars, a shelf of books, pendulums made from amethyst and quartz, and what may or may not be coffee in an old bottle. The vibe is immediately clear: this is someone who lives what he teaches.

Pablo moves through the world guided by two Greek axioms he keeps close — know yourself, and everything in moderation. He works with clients not by chasing more of them, but by trusting that the relationships he cultivates naturally draw the right people. His intention isn't more business. It's deeper presence with the people already in his life — his wife, his three-year-old son Gael, his friends. Everything else, he says, follows from that.

The conversation opens with pendulums and the ideomotor response, winds through Jungian alchemy, Greek philosophy, Ericksonian utilization, the spiritualist roots of mentalism, Chile's unresolved grief from dictatorship-era disappearances, and why the three stages of alchemical transformation — nigredo, albedo, rubedo — matter more to him than "mental health" as a concept. Pablo's framework isn't about removing what's dark. It's about transmuting it. Fear becomes courage. Grief becomes meaning. The symptom becomes the doorway.

Then he performs a card effect live — the Ace of Diamonds, predicted in Spanish before the session even began — and uses it not to impress, but to connect. He follows it with a pendulum demonstration using Ryan's sock and a pen. Then he closes the episode with a spontaneous induction so quiet and clean that Ryan admits he was gone before he noticed.

This one is for anyone who thinks therapy and mysticism are opposites. Pablo makes the case they are the same thing, in different costumes.

Three quotes from Pablo worth writing down:

"That person already knows. But they don't know that they know. I am the one that shows — look, something is happening. I am the one that points."

"Courage is not a feeling. Courage is the trust that I have the seal of the future me — I can do this."

"Life is not just about being mentally stable. Life is to be full, to be crazy, to be fun, to enjoy, to serve others, to love others. Let's inject life."

Connect with Pablo Amira: Blog & writing: metanoiapabloamira.blogspot.com Full site & services: pabloamira.com Email: contacto@pabloamira.com Pablo works in Spanish and English, offering psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, and mentalism — and is an excellent referral for Spanish-speaking clients seeking deep transformation work

Connect with Ryan DeJonghe / TranceWell: Website: trancewell.help Email: ryan@trancewell.help

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello, Ryan. Welcome everyone. Again, this is Ryan, and I am so happy that you are here. You, the one that's listening or watching right now. I really love that you're here. So thank you for your time. And then today, because of you, I have a special guest with me, Pablo Amira. Welcome, Pablo. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you for the invitation. Hi, everyone. Yeah, and I for those that aren't seeing this, behind Pablo is like a vast array of books, musical instruments, sorry for the myth. And maybe a little bit of alcohol. I can't quite tell.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Yeah, maybe it's an impossible bottle, maybe, right? Yeah, yeah. Hello, hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

That's funny. It's not alcohol for those. He just held up this bottle and then had a different thing.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Maybe in the past it was.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Maybe in the past. Who knows? Who knows if we drank the alcohol?

SPEAKER_02 0:55

But in the coffee, or maybe there's another thing. Who knows? Right. Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Cheers. It's funny. I just was talking to someone last night who was talking about using dowsing rods and um pendulums to change the frequency of water. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. He's reaching for the pendulum.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, I have many here, so all right.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

I gotta I'm gonna have to order one.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

I have these wire hangers that are like dowsing rods, and they're they work, they work prompt away, but you know, having this beautiful tool at hand is like nothing, right? This is amethys, you have metal ones, quartz ones. So obviously, we can use everything like a pendulum, but having a special tool offers like a different mystique, right? For example, this one has the crystal, and if you reverse it, there is a locket. So there is a dual quality of the object, right? The holder becomes the weight, and if you reverse it, like change paradigms, right? In a therapeutic settings, you can ask, for example, from uh one side of a thought, and then just change, and there is the other side of the thought. So it's a very integrative kind of work.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Can we like demonstrate that? So you he on one for those that didn't watch, on one was uh it looked like a stone with the different chakra stones on it, yeah. And on the other side was like a locket, kind of like you know, almost like that, yeah. You can put a precious memory inside of it or or whatever. Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

So how would we use oil or a drop of oil? Oh, like anything, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Like the shaking, like the Catholic priests do with that. They have a giant pendulum full of incense, and they're like, Yeah, you know. Okay, so how do we use that? So you got two on one, and what's a so what's a case we can use this for?

SPEAKER_02 2:51

In a very simple way, the first experience that I like to facilitate for others is to simply experiment with the pendulum as a catalyst of the unconscious, right? Because in a scientific way, we can say that the pendulum functions through the idiomotor response, which is also a concept that in hypnosis we found, right? That basically through our focus, our intention, our thought, that energy for a lack of a better word, yeah, travels through your body, through your arm, and creates small movements. So the pendulum works like an amplifier, shows this little movement, right? So if someone focuses, let's say, in the pendulum and imagines that it moves in a circle, if they are relaxed, if they are focused and allow the experience to occur, the pendulum will start to move like in a circle, right? And if you really see my hand, you will see some movement, and there's no problem about that because it's it's not about it, it's that to understand that the quartz in this case kind of amplifies the reaction, the unconscious reaction of the body. So you can use it as a let's say to check different parts of the body. Some people use it also for chakra kind of readings, right? There is so much uses in mentalism as a performer. Yeah, publish a book full of ideas with pendulums because are so versatile, right? So now that someone experiments with the pendulum and make it move, make it stop, and all that, then you can reverse in this case because this is a dual pendulum in a technical sense. So now let's say that someone wants to charge an intention. So you take a piece of paper, you write your intention, obviously, not like this one because you need a small one, to put inside the locket, right? So you open the locket, you put inside the piece of paper with the intention, a word, anything, and then through the movement of the pendulum, a metaphor is created that the intention is energized. So now it's not just a good intention that works, okay. Go for it and go for a drink, whatever. Right, right. There's an experience, there is something that is felt that I have as a vital moment, it's not just words, right? It's an experience. So mentalism for me and pendulum work in this case kind of accentuates the communication.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

So when you put the intention in the locket, do you ask, will this happen?

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Show me a yes, show me no, or yeah, no, it maybe you can do that, but I prefer to assume that this will create some movement because maybe it it will not happen. Who knows? But at least that idea, that ideal, moves me to something that is near, right? So what I do normally is to write the intention, put it inside the locket, and create movement with the participant, and maybe if the participant is already open to the experience, like hypnosis, you can just hypnotize someone who's already hypnotized by you beforehand in a way. Yeah, so the suggestion is already there. So I am a facilitator of the pendulum movement. And if I am not needed, far better because the participant already knows how to do it. So now you do it, focus in the intention and allow that pendulum to move in a more and more bigger and bigger circle, and that kind of movement creates this metaphor to the unconscious that associates the movement in here with the movement in here. So now the intention is a little bit closer, right? In a very pragmatic way.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

I love that. And what's the most recent intention that you've put in a locket? What's your intention that's moving?

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Very good. My relationships, I'm working in that. I am a father of a three-year-old son. I am obviously with a partner, my wife, beautiful wife, my friends, right? My consultants, I am working on that.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

So that's my intention because at least here in America, it's like once I got a wife, I can stop trying, you know. Like I don't have to date her anymore. Once I have a kid, I already did the act, now I have it. So what do you mean by your intention towards your relationship?

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Yeah, to understand this movement of this growth, right? Uh for me, parenting is very complex, beautiful challenge, and especially in the first years, it was very, very complex. So now in a way, I need to allow the past to be in there and to allow the new, right? So that's kind of the the renewal of the relationship to to re remit again with them.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

That's a beautiful way of saying it. That it was complex. To me, I always said having two kids under two at the same time was sucked. It was hell on earth. I drink a lot. I like I like your approach a little bit better. Like that was the past. All right, pendulum, pendulum. Maybe I'll still drink to help the pendulum move a little bit better.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah, of course. It's about moderation, let's say.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Moderation, yeah, the middle way.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, as a Greek uh connected human being, those two axioms or maxims from the Greek philosophy of know yourself and everything in balance, everything in moderation, yeah, especially moderation, right? For me, are kind of two phrases and compasses of wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah, I I like that. Yeah. And now you're it's funny because when I ask people what their intention is, you know, I've interviewed a lot of people, and usually it's like, I want more clients, I want to help people, and you you went right to relationships, your friends, your wife, your child.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah, I and my consultants as well. But right for me is focus, yeah. Hynotherapy, psychotherapy, creative work for me is is an income, for sure, and money is a needed thing, of course. But I don't work towards that. I prefer to focus on the human level and allow that to create the more clients, the more kind of abundance in material. Of course, we need food, we need things, but for me, having more that I need is a distraction. So you can see here that this is what I need, and a little bit more. So I am selling that keyboard, for example, because I need to kind of let go. Uh, and for me, that's growth, and then that's kind of uh living in a more light way.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah, yeah, there's something about the lightness. It's interesting. How did you phrase it? You said too much is a distraction, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like there's a hover study, right? That says that basically happiness is created in someone that has what needs, and and there is a very kind of interesting phenomenon in Latino America that most people in Latin America are poor, technically poor. They don't they can't cover the basic needs, but for some reason we can see that in a way they are happier than people that live in a highly capitalist system with high consumerism, and so it's not about what we have, it's what we need in the basic sense, and if something is lacking, that's why there is a community to support you. There's a family, there are friends, right? So for me, that's essential, and we lost that in our modern society.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Yeah. As you're talking, I had this image of I used to work in down close to New York City, and I'll take the train up to where I live now, New Haven. It was a long train ride. And the people closer to New York City were like the CEOs, and they had mansions and they belonged to the yacht club, like literally belong to a yacht club down there. They get off with their suit, get into their BMW, and they would just look miserable. They just looked miserable. And they they weren't, it's not like they're working, like maybe they weren't going to go to work afterwards, yet, you know, they're getting off at the same time as these other people that were in Bridgeport, Connecticut. And now Bridgeport is very, you know, if you look at it from the outside, economically depressed. A lot of projects and government assistants and like their apartment complexes with just dirt in between them. There's not even any grass, it's just dirt. And yet these people getting off the same time as the suit wearers were just happy. Just laughing and big, beautiful smiles, enjoying life, even though they're going to a dirt apartment complex versus someone going to their house with a yacht in their backyard.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Our body is made of ground, of earth. So it's very silly to say lightly that we are so much around plastic, about things that yeah, they work and they are very convenient, but we need to touch the grass with our feet. We need to feel the tree, we need to taste water. So many people don't drink water, that's so basic, right? And yeah, we need to drink water, not other things, and of course, some juice or whatever, but kids this day, they are taking energy drinks. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, that's what killed me, or part of what killed me. It's like I just was pounding energy drinks and I was all out of line.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Yeah, and that's legal, right? So there's a very weird mix of why is that legal?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah, I and it's funny because I started fighting and advocating. I work at a hospital and they sell energy drinks. That's where I would get by them. They sell energy drinks at the hospital, the thing that destroyed my body. I was like, yo, this killed me. And they're like, Well, it's making money. That's literally what they're saying. In a hospital, they're like, Well, you know, it's one of our more profitable items. Anyhow. Okay, let's talk about just a second. You're talking about clients. I like your approach, how you connect with the relationships of the people that are around you.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

And I have a feeling you mean even more, like maybe your neighbor and just people you see every day, like you being on here with me right now. That's part of your intention.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

And how do the clients come to you then? Like, do you do ads and lead magnets and funnels? Do you do any of that?

SPEAKER_02 14:10

No, no, no. I have business cards, but you know, uh, I have an Instagram in which I I share my ideas, my content, my experiences as a psychotherapist and hypnotherapist. But you know, each encounter with each human being that arrives to this place is a magical encounter for real. And and I it doesn't it doesn't mean that everything is sparky and beings of light and all that kind of just one side. There is a lot of that, of course. But there's also very dark stories, situations of violence, abuse, and fears and anxieties, and that's also beautiful in a sense, because that's also human, that's also the origin, the chaos from which something new emerges is the space in which in every human being appears what is new, because what is old is broken, right? So that brokenness has some kind of beautiful quality that that appears every time. So I don't do that. Um I am not uh denying them, or maybe in the future I will, who knows? But it's not about getting more clients to kind of uh in a way, even take advantage of the other, right? If if you go to the extreme, I want more clients. Why? Because I want more money, or I want to serve the world, I want to be a factor of healing, right? Everyone takes their own decision, of course. I am not judging, but in terms of humanity, which is kind of uh an implicit essential in everyone because everyone is a human being, right? It's crazy for me that, for example, sadly in in the United States, what is happening, right, with the president, right? I don't care if you are left or right, it's not about that, it's about someone that is creating such a distraction for so many. And and well, but so it's crazy for me that someone that is a human being that don't connect to what is the needs of humanity. So it's really the infinite growth of properties and money and wealth and power. Is that the human essence? Just let's see it in an historical way, not even trying to be ideological, but in terms of the extension of humanity, this is very new, right? If we see the complete sense, most probably most of the time we were collaborating, we were in small groups of tribes, and we have some conflicts with other tribes, of course. But it's not about kind of uh the hippie dream, but who knows maybe? But the sense is that we can have conflicts, we can have differences, but without wars, without dogmatic religions that creates kind of the illusion of the schatology, and sadly in this space of the world in Chile and Argentina, there are occurring some very weird things with some people, right? So the Patagonia is burning. Why is that? Why why we are putting more importance to some ideas to the nature, right? Nature is God in person and we are killing right our mother. So for me it's crazy that someone doesn't recognize the fundamental relevance of being a human being and and having a persona and and having problems with others, of course, but be in the center that if I kill humanity, I kill myself also. Right? It's like the old saying that whatever I give, I offer, I receive is is the Hermetic law, is the Christian tradition, Jew, right? It's wisdom that we forgot, right? So for me that's essential to keep keep us alive. We say we kill the earth. No, we we are killing us.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

We are nature, so we need to touch grass as we yeah, we need to touch grass, yeah. And how do we so I I had this theory I wonder what you thought about like if we gather a group of people instead of like a protest, because you're putting up this other energy, what if instead you put up an allowance exactly like just held it in loving awareness?

SPEAKER_02 19:00

I wonder if that would be the best protest, right? What that's that's the really really good protest that it's not a rejection that of course we are rejecting, but it's not about I am the correct one and you are the correct one, right? Let's talk and let's be in that center of humanity that we spoke. Is how is this relevant to the expansion of everyone, not just me, right? Individuality, the modern system of each person, and there is no connection to others, right? And connection is even the incorrect word because it's not connection where everyone is one, right? There's the illusion of connection, because in the sense that I see you, you see me, and like Boover that says that there is kind of a different magic of relationships between you and me, and you are just an object, or there is a me, you, a one, right? So connection, yes, but is even beyond that is you are me, and me are you, and and what you are seeing is a reflection of you, and in reverse. So if we get along, it's also self-love, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:16

I love that. Get along is self-love, yeah. I like that.

unknown 20:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Okay, that's cool. That's groovy. And rewinding a bit more, you talked about sometimes a client might see you and they have this fear. You like lowered your voice, and your hand went like it's heavy. You're I just noticed your hand held it like it was very heavy, and yet you looked at it like it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Now that's yeah, and then now your eyes just lit up. You lean forward, your eyes just lit up, and a smile came on your face when I said this heavy fear is beautiful. So tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Yeah, it's so paradoxical, it's so weird, and it's so real because the beautiness of something perceived is not about the object, it's about the perceiver. So we become the artists that allow that beauty to emerge, right? So if someone hears that, it says maybe or what? Or even a no is at least an answer of allowing that idea to be part of my understanding for for a brief moment. You already hear that that phrase that your heavy weight can be beautiful, and at the same time you let it go and allow that beauty to be everywhere, right? So it's not just let go because it's bad, and now you are light and it's good. It's not about that, it's about like Heraclitus said, everything flows, everything passes, everything changes every instant. So if I am in the past, I am Not here if I am the future, I am not here, so I need to let go of everything, right? Even of the idea to be in the present. I I love Sem, right? The movie's that's kind of it's not even about being here because you can be here, you are you are not everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Yeah, I love what um do you read much around Das or I know yeah. So part of one of the things I liked was when he went to his guru, Maharaji, and then he's like, Guru, you know, I I think I've aced it. I got this non-attachment thing down, I am so non-attached. And then Maharaji's like, Well, you're attached to non-attachment. Exactly. Yes, exactly. Uh and and then when you're talking about the beauty of letting fear go, and then my mind starts thinking about people who want to try to hold on to happiness. Because it feels I don't know what it feels. Everyone, it feels different. Happiness is different for everyone, and then there's also a beauty in letting happiness go instead of holding on to it, and that is such a paradox to me. Because why would I want to let happiness go?

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah, because what is beyond is beyond happiness, right? It's kind of the Christian tradition of joy or the ananda in the Hinduism, right? It's kind of a bliss beyond emotions. Happiness is an emotion, it's a beautiful emotion.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Well, was it in the in the Hinduism? Because I'm going down that rabbit hole these days.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Yeah, ananda. Ananda is the word, yeah. How do you spell it? A N A N D A.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Ananda. All right, ananda. It's like that feeling beyond happiness.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Yeah, it's it's not even a feeling, right? It's kind of uh is-ness, yeah, emptiness, which is full, right? It's a paradox, right? I I can't say with words, nobody can say it with words. That's why the Ramda story, right? Yeah, I am not attached, but you are attached to attachment, right? So it's a paradox that you can only encounter in silence.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Is that how how did you find this path?

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Well, from my childhood, uh I always uh had this kind of sensibility, let's say, I don't know, but uh openness, maybe openness. And I was raised in a Christian family, uh very Baptist, classic, even very influenced by North American kind of Southern Baptism. Yeah, and I participated in there, the concept of God through this paradigm and started kind of the journey, and then through different, let's say, uh mystical or uh luminous experiences, uh I had to kill God to go be up to go beyond, right? And it was very difficult, very difficult, and in a way I'm I am still trying, but um in in that in those experiences, kind of the paradigm open, um yeah, it's uh it's a fun ride. It's a game ride. It's nothing serious, nothing serious.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Right, it is a game, playful, yeah. It is playful and a game. Speaking of, you'll you're the first to witness this live, but look at this. Speaking of a game, I'm starting another YouTube channel, and it's gonna be a sock puppet. Nice, and his name will be Socratese. He's gonna talk my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Ah, beautiful, my favorite one.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yeah, and then I even have and then so but you won't be able to see me, so I'll have these like emoji masks, like this one. Nice, nice, but that's there's definitely no AI in that.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Yeah, there is a comedian like in the 80s or 70s that did that, and and he did like of this let's say the puppet will talk, and the puppet was kind of enlightened being talking about this higher truth, and and some people ask this comedian, I don't remember the name, but they ask, How do you say that? And he said, I am not saying he's saying it.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Oh, I like that channeling, right? Yeah, okay, yeah, he's saying it. I like that. I'm writing it down, and something you said struck me. You said you had to kill God, so say more.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Yeah, because there's an image, there is something to hold. I am here, you are there, and thank you. And what what we are talking about, the connection, right? I had a connection, and and even though it's a still it's a it's a paradigm that is still valid, it is nothing wrong about it. But I love the teachings of a mystic that's called Meister Eckhart, it's kind of a a fun read because he he he talked about the godhead, or as I prefer to call it, the mystery mystery beyond word, the Tao from Taoism, right? They had a very clear kind of let's say that's a beautiful kind of understanding, and and I am uh I am in that in that notion that uh whatever we call God is uh a convenient kind of image. Sadly, religion and the dogmatic ones and the even ideological ones, the very rich ones, they are the ones that create wars and all that, right? So uh there is some truth in there, but uh, as Jung said, I don't need to believe because I know that's the thing, right? Is God is not something out there, or just out there, let's say, is also here, it's also mystery to you, it's also everyone. So that's uh for me is killing God, right? Going beyond and killing the father, like the old myth, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Oh, yeah, I like that. Very Joseph Campbell of you. Yeah, yeah. All right, speaking of the mystery, let's talk mentalism a little bit. All right, so I don't I don't even know where to start. Do you have an idea of something you we might be able to try?

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Yeah, because let's try something, let's try again, a very small packet of cards, like symbolizing or or metaphorizing a full deck. So let's start with just a simple question. It doesn't matter if you get it wrong or right. Do you know the kind of the most valuable cards in a deck of cards?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Yeah, and as a pausing a moment, for those that are just listening, he's holding up one card in his hand.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

No, it's four a four, yeah, small packet, four cards.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Oh, small packet. He had a little rubber band around it. So four cards. Okay, so the most valuable ones. And it depends on the game you're playing, like ace could be valuable or it could be one.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Nice, yeah. So do you want the aces?

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah, let's go with the ace.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Let's work with aces. Okay, so imagine, Ryan, that with my right hand I will take one of the colors of a deck of cards because we have black and red, right? So I take one with my right hand. Which color do you see in there? Black. Black, fantastic. So we throw it away. And do you know which are the symbols that we can make with the red one? This the pips, the suits.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Oh, yeah, hearts and diamonds. Diamonds, hearts, and diamonds.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

So please take each symbol with one of your hands, one for the heart, one for the diamond, please. In your own hands. Do it, Lena.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah, so so yeah, I got a heart and a diamond in each hand.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Nice. And now let's do the final most important decision. I will take with our imagination, of course, one of the symbols from one of your hands. Tell me which one I have now in my hand.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, you got the diamond.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

Let me ask you, are you sure? Yes. You can see the diamond in there, right? Right. The red fantastic. And you know, diamond has a beautiful symbolic meaning that we can talk a little bit later. But basically, it's about a new resource that maybe will come to you in a monetary level, as a client, or maybe as an abundant mindset, right? There are so many beautiful kind of meanings that diamonds had, but you know, I reverse one of the cards on this packet of cards for cards. You mention aces, right? Right as a value card, and then you get only one of them, the diamonds, right? So the the ace of diamonds is the card, right? Right. I will do it very slowly. I will open these cards, one of them is reverse.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Right, and it's the ace of diamonds.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Now, I was so sure that in Spanish, because we are here, I wrote pensarás in esta carta. That means you will think on this card. Now, I was so sure, Ryan, that the ace of diamonds is the card for you, is that is the different one.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

It has a red back, all the other cards has a blue back, and there is no other, all the other cards are blank, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Just the ace of diamonds, yes, yeah, your diamond. So, as you can see, there is a powerful symbol in there.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

I I love the storytelling of this. I love the storytelling and how you create like a blessing with it. It's not just a trick.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

It's exactly that's for me the same way that I need to go beyond all in this phase of my kind of development, artistic development. Mentalism for me is essential to be beyond even the mystery that happened. That yeah, it's cool, the ace reverse, yeah, yeah, it's creates kind of an uplifting of awe or surprise, right? That's cool, but I need to go beyond because in that space of beyond, in the storytelling, as you said, in there we can create a connection that really connects because, in a way, if I just do the amazing thing, in a way I am being distant from you, yeah, I am better from you because I can do this, it's not about it.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

It cheapens it like if you just do do the do the thing, then it cheapens it, and yet you made that, like you said, connection.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Exactly. It's not about the cards, right? It's about the diamonds that you chose, it's about the ace that you named, right? Because how did we know that those cards were the only one ace, right? So, yeah, there's those logical kind of unknowns, but that's not mystery. Mystery is beyond that. Mystery is something that there's always been mystery about it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

And so the mystery that pops up in my head now is the phrase choice is an illusion. Yeah, right. And then so in that moment right there, that's demonstrated it. And then in my world, like a video game, I used to do video game reviews, and the greatest games will make you feel like you have a choice. It's a great story in the game, like you're like, wow, the story is so good. I wonder what would happen if I played it again and made a different choice. Exactly.

unknown 33:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Free will. Free will be there there is kind of the free decision, but there's no free will. Free decision, but no free will. It's not the same, it's not the same because uh what as you said, there is a illusion of that whatever I create as a cause will have a different effect, yeah. But what if it doesn't matter which is the cause, will be happening the same, right? So it's kind of this way from Taoism of a non-forced action, kind of this non-action, as we said. So we are just flowing, so we are doing, but what is needed, right? Not more, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:22

And I love how that made me feel and that connection and that like oh, diamonds, what does that signify? What does that mean? And it's the same thing like reading the tarot. You're like each card is just a representation of myself, and it's when I pause and ask the meaning of that particular aspect of myself.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Yeah, I I have a method of reading tarot in which basically you don't need to know meanings, and you can, and and you should because it's fun to learn the symbolic nature of these weird images. Go for it. Uh, it's completely recommended, but you can take three cards as we psychologists take three kind of ambiguous images, the Rochartes or many others, in which we see something that doesn't have much kind of real concretization of meaning, and those broken parts are the projections, right? So you take the three third cards and you say, okay, what is the story here? What happened before this weird guy with a stick and a dog appear? What will happen after for each card from the three cards, right? And you have a projective psychological moment of ah, why I said that? Ah, because of this. Oh, I didn't know about this. So you're starting to create self-knowledge with shadow aspects that you didn't know, which is great.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

I like how you bring the shadow, and you quoted Young Young before. Yeah, there's there's something like each religion has a little piece of truth in it, each like philosophy and each psychology has a little piece of truth in it. Exactly. All right, do you got another mentalism story? I want another. I want another demonstration.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Yeah, fantastic. So let's do something different, but now let's do you have a pendulum in there? No or a pendulum-like object?

SPEAKER_01 36:29

No, not with me. No, okay, so I need to order one. I mean, I just have these these uh dowsing rods, these yeah, no, don't worry, don't worry.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Let's do it in another way. So for this, I will take my my finger X for a moment because oh you know what?

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Would this work? Like, I have a sock. Don't ask me why. And I could put um I could put a pin at the end of it here. I think it'll stick. See so like does that count? Sock with a pin at the end of it. Let's let's see it, let's see it.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

So okay, focus focus your mind into the point of the pen. Okay, focus completely your attention, and as you can see, the pen is already starts to move a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Yeah, that's weird.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Yeah, and you don't know how to consciously know what is the movement. You just need to allow the unconscious to express the movement. So just observe, be the witness, and you will see we will see a movement. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Yeah, it's like bouncing around now, it's just like making bigger circles.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Yeah, bigger circles and bigger circles, and those bigger circles have great mysterious implications for you in the depth of your unconscious. We don't need to talk about the symbolism of circles to understand the importance of expansion. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Now it's like swinging both uh back and forth.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Yeah, beautiful, and now it's expanding in a new dimension. Very good, very good. And observe Ryan if just focus on relaxation and stopping and being open to just be still. There you go. Look at what happens. Even though you know that the pendulum can move freely now, it's just there relax, even frozen now, and it's important to take moments of deep relaxation during the day each moment. There you go. So now you know that a pendulum can be created with a pen and a sock.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

That's so weird. That's a new one. That's a new one, right? Now we're gonna play around and figure out crazy pendulums. I had this idea, I was wondering, I was thinking about putting a piece of cotton on a string inside of a jar, like seal the jar, and just have it on YouTube live and just see if other people can make the cotton move.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Yeah, a bottle pendulum, that's another concept in pendulum world. There's a lot of concepts, stranger ones. For example, you can hold obviously a pendulum in this way, right? Kind of the classic way, but you can also do this.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Oh, so it's like he's holding out two hands, yeah, and either side is dangling.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

And now, for example, if you train, you can move the right in some way and the left object in another way, right? There is this concept that in mentalism we call the multipendulum, which is a run with various chains or threads with different objects, right? And that's another beautiful way to explore the idiomotor or let's say the unconscious uh reply, right? And for example, you can have different objects with different meanings for, for example, money or relationships or any type of classic categories, and whichever it moves is like the guide of the reading, let's say, of the conversation. Ah, so it moves the key, and the key means new opportunities. So tell me which are the new opportunities. So you can even use it as a kind of uh uh GPS for conversations. Let's say which is the topic that we need to talk, and let's ask the multipendulum, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

So many that's fun, that's fun. All right, so when you're talking about mentalism, I was going down other things like yeah, like but that's cool, like you put it back in my lap, like you're not the performer, yeah, very good.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

You're the witness, yeah, exactly, exactly. And I I shared that a lot in my latest work. That in a technical sense, yes, in the same way as in hypnotherapy. Yes, you are the hypnotherapist, of course. You need to embrace that first in order to let it go, right? Because you are facilitating self-hypnosis for others. That person already knows, but they don't know that they know. So I am the one that, yes, I need the techniques, the handcheck induction, the pen, whatever, for sure. But as you said, the performer at deeper level is also a participant, it's also a spectator of what it happens because in the pendulum experience, I don't know really what it will happen. I know that something will happen. I am the one, I am the one that shows look, something is happening. I am the one that points. Just that, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:05

That's interesting. And I feel a lot of people in our a lot of our peers may get hooked up on doing what you said. And it's a necessary part to know, yeah, you know, the handshake interrupt, you know, inductions and whatnot. And yet at a certain point, you become just there.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

Just there. That's the best induction, your own presence. And when you define that, it's so simple, right? Because it will occur. How I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Yeah, and that's it turned out, right? Yeah, that's terrifying to a lot of people. Like, I've you know, I I think it's a healthy endeavor for all clinicians to do some stage or street work just so they can experiment and not take it so seriously.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Yeah, and you know, maybe it's terrifying for everyone, but the different thing is that I trust, right? It's like in my music kind of enjoyment, jazz for me is kind of a philosophy of life in terms of improvisation. I don't know what I will do two hours from this. I don't know. Right, I will see what happens and I will do my best, right? So life is like that, music is like that in the sense that yeah, I need to improvise over this corpse. Okay, what is your kind of taste in sound? Do you want to sound weird? Do you want to sound very classical? Do you want to sound like this one? Be free to choose, but yeah, personally, I choose to sound myself, so I find my own sound, I try to learn from everyone, but at the end of the day, there is a student and a master in here. I don't know, right? So I I am very close to Jung in the sense of active imagination, in the sense of there is a universe inside of me, and and I I I got that kind. Of insight from my childhood. I had what is called today autistic treats, traits, right? So imaginative qualities in the sense that uh I I could, thanks to God, I didn't born in this generation, but I I maybe in today I also had a DHD because in classes I was so bored, I didn't care about what they taught me. I have a watch and I play with the sun, right? The reflection and I put the light there, right? I was I was a distracted kid, I was a weird kid. So is Einstein exactly, right? So in my beginnings, in my beginnings, I understood that there is something inside, quote unquote, that if I am silent, I can hear a phrase, I can hear sound, I can picture an image, and I can paint it, right? And I don't care to be good, right? There's no paintings in there. I I I do it because I need to do it. There is no kind of uh uh technical aspect, it's just doing it. So is there's teachers, there is inspiration, of course, and we need to talk and we need to enjoy, but uh silence for me is uh essential.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Now, if you I love how you're like it's like you're trusting the unknown. Exactly. Now, how for I got a lot of hypnotists, hypnotherapists that listen to this, and what would you say to them to encourage them to be able to trust in the unknown? Because I feel like a lot of a lot of people go into a session, they're like, This person comes to me and presents this. They they present with worry, they present with anxiety, they present with chronic pain, they present with whatever. And yet we know that's not the real reason they're there. Yeah, there's there's a there's an ordained reason they're there, and it's a mystery.

unknown 46:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

And then so how do you trust the unknown? Like, for instance, you talked about the pendulum, like you didn't know how the pin on the end of a sock would move.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

I didn't I didn't know. And yet a hypnotist will be like, okay, I'm going to charge a certain price for your time here, and we have no idea what's gonna happen, but I'm gonna charge you money. So just play around. Like, who knows? Maybe if you're working with a client and they're like, I don't have a pendulum, and they put a pin on the end of the sock, and you're like, All right, that'll be my set fee, you know. I don't know what's gonna happen. So, how do you encourage people to trust in the unknown?

SPEAKER_02 46:46

Various sides from this. The first thing is that let's see it in an expanded dimension in the sense that there is a wisdom in nature, let's say. And nature has I don't know how million or billion or whatever, but more than me and more than humanity, right? And humanity from the beginning, in a way, trusting nature in the sense of food, in searching for shelter, right? The basic stuff. So, who am I to not trust the unconscious or to not trust nature or God or however we want to call it? So let's be a witness of whatever happens and let's do what is needed to do in the woo-way kind of idea. And in that way, I am not just the character in here in this reality, but I am also the observer, I am the director of the movie, I am the main character, of course, right? But I am not just that, I am not just ego. There is a transpersonal kind of factor, so that whatever we call it, Jun called the self, right? Yeah, I am ego, I am also self, and I am the relation with them, and yeah, yeah. So there is no reason not to trust them coming. Obviously, it's terrifying in the sense when I have a panic attack or when I have a phobia reaction or uh psychotic breakup, whatever. Yeah, of course, there's terrifying. That's why it said that maybe it's terrifying for everyone. But this the difference is that I am not fearful of fear. There is fear, of course, in the experience, and there is no denial of that. But only in fear you can develop courage. That's all obvious, right? Courage as an attitude. I I don't need courage, it's not a feeling, right? Courage is a mindset, courage is the trust that I have the seed of the future me of I can do this. It's like the Neville Goddard teaching, right? Starting from the end, like praying as if you already have that, and being thankful because you already are that or have that, or whatever, right? So it's all about trusting that in some way I will make it work because I am not alone, right? So, in the sense of the hypnotherapy context, yes, someone is here. Hopefully, we are not offering a pen with that sock, but we are offering kind of a beautiful pen that a little more shipping, a little more showmanship and the yeah, and professional, right? Yeah, professional. There is a suggestion in the pendulum in itself, right? So it's a let's say that there's a clear quartz, or maybe I offer option, and sometimes sometimes I do this, and it's an extra point. So let me show you, for example, in this basic possibility, right? I have a clear quartz and a white quartz, and you can choose one, and whatever to choose is kind of also a suggestion because it is clear, right? And maybe clearness is what you need, or maybe this more obviously white, maybe can allude to an alchemical albedo, right? So uh so many possibilities I showed you moments ago with the amethyst, right? So purple is normally a crown chakra type of yeah, that's my jam right there, yeah. Right, so we can go to that and we can already find what you need, and in a sense, it doesn't matter if the pendulum does nothing, let's say, but because again, doing nothing is also something. So, in that aspect, when you ask me the question, it comes to me a concept that I love from Ericksonian therapy that's utilization, right? So Ericsson was always ready to say what is useful in here, right? It's not a symptom that we need to remove because it's an illness, like a kind of something that we need to remove because it's bad, no, it's something that emerged from the unconscious that you said is not really the problem. Now, if someone just wants that piece of healing, I I don't force deeper self-knowledge or deep individuation because you want to let go of the phobia, okay? Let's do it, and we can do it, and thank you very much. And now, if the person is ready for a deeper process, you're ready, right? If not, you just want that, and brief therapy is very convenient, and sometimes convenience is what we need, right? But if we want deeper work, right, there is a very important aspect in the attitude of the therapist of come here, let's work it out, let me hear your pain. I understand you, that's difficult. Yeah, I hear you, and I don't invalidate your symptom because in the in kind of the extreme aspect of I talked moments ago that no, the symptom doesn't matter, you need toughen that. No, it's not about that. No, there is suffering, there is people with wounds, with trauma. So let's be human beings, let's be professional in our profession to hear that, to take that, even to feel that, right? Is this work is very chamanistic in the sense that it happens to me by suggestion, by energy, whatever. I don't know, but whatever someone brings to me in a way or another, in my own intimate life, it happens in some way, and I even don't understand that at something incorrect, but in a way, it's even a challenge from self, let's say, or destiny or of life to be in touch with whatever this person is also experiencing. So I am I am also in that pain, quote unquote, in whatever level, and I can also empathize and I can be the one to say, you know, let's move on at your own time. If you need to cry in this session, cry, right? Hypnotherapy for crying, release trauma, yeah, without the need of entering to an unconscious reaction of rage, of deep sorrow, with suicidal thoughts and all that, right? In a safety space, you are in a trance and you can cry, you can cry. If you need to cry, cry. And sometimes with my consultants, I do that and I start myself to cry because, in a way, I feel that you're right, that's all needed, right? So let it go. There is no need anymore, right? So after this catharsis, which in a way is even the beginning, historical beginning of hypnosis, cathartic reactions, right? Right with the mesmerism and all that. So there is a wisdom in the ancient tribal rituals of craziness, yes, and African and black people uh shouting. Yeah, there is so much wisdom. There's an advanced technology in there that we forgot to let go to understand anger of something that is also part of life, sadness, right? Grief. So many people are ill in the soul by grief, they can't cry their loved ones, right? Here in Chile, we have a dictatorship years ago, and there are some people that there is they can't put their loved ones into the cemetery because they don't have the bodies, they just kill them and they never said where are the bodies, so that's so cruel. People with open griefs, right? For decades, that's human, right? So we need to cry, we need to let go. So again, something will happen. I trust that always because something always happened. And if I show that and I uh appreciate that, and the person is in a way being influenced by the communication, most probably that person will also find that quote unquote optimist kind of uh perspective, or yeah, just just uh useful or utilization as Ericsson called it. Everything can be useful, even the symptom.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

I do admire that about Ericsson, how he took the symptom and turned it into the superpower.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

Exactly, right? The classic case of the guy with the messianic delirium, right? I am Jesus Christ, I'm Jesus Christ. Oh, you're Jesus Christ. Yeah, we need someone because you are a woodworker, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 55:45

We we need someone to build again the building. Yeah, yeah, I can do it. I am a carpenter, of course. I'm Jesus Christ. That's a useful utilization of that psychotic idea.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

Yes, hallelujah. Yeah, and I like how you talked about that at the going full circle, the fear, the heaviness of fear, and then through alchemy, a change that fear turns into courage.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

Yeah, that's the thing, right? Because modern kind of psychotherapy is about eliminating the fear, eliminating kind of in a way that this is evil, this is incorrect, it's so religious in a sense, it's so dualistic, right? Right for some people it will work. I don't say it doesn't work, but I prefer to go into this deeper understanding of that things are not just evil or good, or there is a very powerful practical wisdom in alchemy in a very basic sense, very simple, three stages: the blackening, the nigredo, the albedo, the whitening, the purification. And most people get into that. I am bad, I want to be good. Sure, but it's not just about that, it's about rubedo, the reddening, the aliveness. We are so catch up in I don't want depression, and yeah, I don't want depression, but I want to live, I want to experience this miracle. That's the real passion, the real meaning of each moment to live it in the deepest way, the sadness in the deepest way, the joy in the deepest way, the anger, right? So it's not just about I kind of this concept of mental health. I get it, but it's not just about mental health. Life is not just about to be mentally stable, right?

SPEAKER_01 57:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Life is life is to be uh full, to be crazy, to be fun, to enjoy, to to serve others, to love others. Action, right? The rebellious alchemy for me is essential because yeah, let's let go of the depression, let's purify that. Okay, uh, but now let's inject life, yeah. Take a hobby, read a book, right? Take a song, right?

SPEAKER_01 58:07

Yeah. Yeah, it's funny because my some of my favorite music, and we'll get to this music of yours in just a moment. Yeah, and the music, sometimes the best music comes from fear and grief, and those are the ones that resonate with me. And then on the other side, like the real, like glorious, like just full of gratitude type of music, you know, those are beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 58:33

Yeah, music is beautiful because everything can be beautiful in music, right? Right beautiful sadness, beautiful anger, eerie, resentment, right? You left me, you are a piece of nothing, whatever. Yeah, yeah. At least you are singing about the ride, right? You are not doing uh something violent for the other, right?

SPEAKER_01 58:49

Right. And it's not about the end of the song, it's about the song itself.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

And singing the song, right? Because in the future I will sing the song a wing. So even I have some clients who are musicians, we talk about that as music, as even as a transcendent kind of source of wisdom that says, keep playing, keep playing, keep sound, keep doing it, keep doing it until you can do it, but do it because that's your meaning to to sing, to play, right?

SPEAKER_01 59:19

Yeah. Now I'm excited to get to this music part. The the grief. You mentioned the dictatorship and the bodies, and people want to grieve the person and yet they don't know where the body is. So, how do they experience and allow grief? If their model, because in their minds, the metaphor is they need closure in order to get experience of grief, they need to be in touch with the body. So, how do they be in touch with grief without the body?

SPEAKER_02 59:54

Very deep, but in a kind of simple way, there's a need of this uh kind of a replacement of the ritual of the kind of the grounding of the body, of the burning, whatever is your kind of tradition by culture, most probably here in Latin America and Chile is about taking the rest or the body and putting it on the ground, right? To cry, to understand that it's not in this level, right? Because in a way, those people that they can be buried, they're ghosts, they are in here, they are not resting, so there's tension in there, right? So that's why and and very interesting, conlating to mentalism. Mentalism started from the spiritualist movement, in a technical sense, right? When some people in the magic kind of uh precipitation, illusionism area start to realize that there are some people doing maybe some real or shenanigans or charlatans, I don't know, but they are not doing magic in the common sense, but they are doing fits of spiritual apparition and meditation, right? So spiritualism also appears like that because there are so many people that died in the war, and the wives and the families they can't cry their loved ones. So we do a seance and we do a ritual, and the girl enter into a trance and say, Yes, I am John, I am very good. Thank you for crying for me. Now you can relax. I am fine, I am in peace, right? So that's real, that charlatanism that's who knows, and in a way, who cares? Because that was a way to close the process, which is a human way, right? To ah resting now. That person is not kind of a burden in me, but I allowed that to be in there, like as we talk in the past, right? So, in this sad situation in my country, is it's also very needed to kind of create a replacement because I almost see it as that was the garden, you know, like that dictatorship.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

We we label as humans, we label good, evil, bad, sad, whatever. And then the dictatorship was what it was, and now it's created a beautiful moment. Like because of the darkness, it's like the um the Tibetans, they say the umipam, and it's the uh the lotus that's coming out of the shit. You know, it's like the lotus is buried in the mud and the darkness and the shit, and then now it's forming this beautiful flower that sits above it. The shit in the mud is still there, and the flower is also there, beating off of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

I had an experience with a consultant years ago with a trauma from that whole experience of dictatorship and violence. She almost gets killed, right? And all those tortures, right? And we have just a few sessions, and she was so strong, she started to write books, and she now is a writer of hope, of meaning, of love. So, as you said, from the darkest, most tyrannical things, right? We get the lotus flower, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:32

And look at Frankel and uh Man's Search for Meaning, right? Writing that in the Holocaust camp, and then it's one of the most beautiful and profound and hope-enabling books out there, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:45

And and how comical is in a sense, because he had his theory of logotherapy before the Holocaust. So, in a way, logo, okay, you want to try that?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Oh man, yeah, because you mentioned growing up in like Southern Baptists, and they always had this phrase in that community be careful what you pray for. That's about and never pray for patience. Exactly. Because you will be tried to see if your theory on patience is accurate.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

Exactly right, right? And it's not the brain that we need to do, okay, let's solve it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

Oh, that's funny. And it's interesting you bring up the humor of it, and it reminds me of that movie, uh, is it A Beautiful Life, where it's about the man that takes and his family goes into the concentration camp, and he's just full of life and humor and dance and music, and that's the role of artists today to create or to create beauty because there is so much ugliness in the world that we know in the media and all that, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:58

So we need to be this agent of what we call divine or cosmic kind of oneness, right? That this going to the moon, I don't care if this is real or not, but it's a beautiful symbol of we are one, literally, it's not a metaphysical whatever. We are one. Yeah, so if you heard me, you heard yourself, right? It's like the car metaphor. If I have an accident with you in car, I also get damaged, right? It's the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:32

Wow. It's I I love this. Okay, now I don't want to delay this any longer. Let's talk about music and purposes in private. Okay, you're selling your piano. Um I like the it looks like a mushroom sticker on the guitar case, but I enjoy the electric, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

There's some mysteries in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

Yeah, some mysteries. And I love the fact that I was reading Doug O'Brien, he wrote this book about. Like a mouth. And he uses the metaphor of we all have suitcases. And you can have a suitcase with a mushroom on it. I can have a suitcase with a mushroom on it. And yet we don't really know what's in that suitcase. It represents different things to different people. So it could be a suitcase with a guitar in it. Could be a suitcase with a bunch of psilocybin mushrooms in it. It could be a suitcase with, I think we talked about that at the beginning, our coffee cups or tea cups. It could be tea, it could be coffee, could be water. Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

Or maybe nothing. I am just doing something of nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

You know what? I'm kind of hoping for that. I'm kind of hoping you're just holding up an empty cup to your mouth for the last hour. Just from an empty cup. And your glasses are without no prescriptions, yeah. Yeah, just glass.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

All right. So what do you have for us today, my friend? A little music.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

Let me offer a small piece, but let's choose something just by chance. Tell me any number between one and seven. Six. Six. Okay. So that's A from C. The sixth degree. So let me. Do you want a major or a minor?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

Uh let's go with a minor.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

Okay. So let me tune. And that's a very important lesson in guitar. You always need to tune.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

In live as well, the body needs to be tuned.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

It's funny because I was playing guitar last night, tuned it, and then I picked up this morning. It should theoretically be in tune from last night, and it's not.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:44

Exactly right. So there's a metaphor there, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:47

Yeah, we gotta always ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

Exactly. We need, and even if we feel okay or good, this guitar feels good.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

Double meaning. But it's also nice tuning, right? It's not a contradiction. So okay. Can you hear? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Oh wait, now I can't hear. Okay, so I heard it now I hear it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:24

Okay, let me put it into a speaker. Uh okay, cool. Let give me a moment. So in that way, we are sure that there is no delay or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Yeah, as you're doing that, I just appreciate seeing there's like I think I see four guitars in the image. Yeah, there might be five if there's one in the case. There are many more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:47

This one doesn't have any frets. Sounds like uh oh, no frets.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

Wow. Now that's fun. I can't hear that one either. It's weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:57

I heard yeah, yeah. But it it sounds like uh a shell or like a violin because there's no frets, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

That's fun. Okay, I heard that.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:10

Give me one moment. Can you hear that?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:17

Not really. It's weird. When you're just like hitting it, I heard a couple notes. And it's fine. I can hear you speaking just fine. I don't know why I can't hear the guitar.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:27

Uh let me one moment, because there is an appears like a special configuration in here or audio. Let me check. Uh who knows? Let me check it. There is kind of uh maybe I can't. But what maybe what we can do is I can record this A-mana piece. Yeah. Maybe you can add it as an extra.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:52

Yeah, that's what I can do.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:56

So that's what we'll do, everyone. We'll we'll have him record it and then I'll put it at the end of the episode. Let's do it in the beautiful. Of course, we'll have the links on how they get in touch with you. You're now on my Rolodex. I've had other people saying they're looking for a Spanish-speaking hypnotherapist or a practitioner, a healer, whatever you want to call it. And so you you're definitely up there in the front of my Rolodex now.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:24

Thank you, right. Thank you for the invitation. Very, very nice conversation. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

Me too. Me too. Thank you so much for being here. And do you have any last words for the world that may be listening now?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:36

Yeah, yeah. Maybe uh very simple suggestion. You can close your eyes now. Just connect to your body, to your breathing. You don't need to focus on anything special. And at the same time, just focus in the most special thing, which is this moment. And you can flow today, you can relax today, you can enjoy today even if the emotions are heavy and complicated. There is always a hidden mystery within a treasure to find and you can only find it in those moments. Move your body and enjoy the day.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:57

I was gone, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:00

Me too, me too. I need to come back, come back, come back.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:04

All right, thank you so much, Pablo. Thank you to all the listeners being here, and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:11

Bye bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

Bye bye.