Daniel Browne: The Hypnotic Rainbow, LGBTQ+ Affirmative Therapy, and Why Allies Need to Step Up Now

In this episode of AWAKEN, Ryan sits down with Daniel Browne — hypnotherapist, counsellor, coach, author, trainer, and the man behind The Mind Bender Method — joining from Royal Leamington Spa in the UK. Daniel is internationally recognized as the leading authority on LGBTQ+ affirmative therapy in the hypnosis world, has trained thousands of practitioners across the globe, and is heading to HypnoThoughts Live with not one but two presentations: a full-day pre-conference workshop on the Mind Bender Method, and a main stage talk called The Hypnotic Rainbow: Tailoring Trance to Every Identity.

Daniel came into hypnosis the same way a lot of people do — sideways, skeptically, and through a backdoor. His background was mental health care, supporting people with schizophrenia transitioning back into the community. He trained as a counsellor and psychotherapist, stumbled into a hypnosis qualification almost by accident, and was hooked from the very first class. Seventeen years later, roughly 60-70% of his clients are trans, and anxiety has replaced smoking cessation as the number one thing people come to see him about.

The conversation goes deep and stays honest. Daniel talks about what identity crisis actually looks like — not just for LGBTQ+ people navigating gender and orientation, but for anyone who has lost the role that defined them: the mother whose kids just left home, the executive who got laid off, the person coming out of a decades-long marriage asking who am I now? The Mind Bender Method's three core outcomes — confidence, resilience, and clarity — turn out to be universal, even if the protocol was built specifically for queer communities.

Daniel also opens up about his own internal work: a period where he was so uncomfortable around straight white men that he stopped going to networking events entirely. He talks through what self-awareness actually looks like in practice, why most people have buried prejudices they don't know they're carrying, and why the answer isn't shame — it's curiosity and doing the work. Ryan shares his own audit, wondering whether he might have biases he can't yet see. Neither of them pretends to have it fully figured out.

And Daniel ends with a direct call to action: LGBTQ+ communities are in crisis right now — in the US, in the UK, globally — and the people who can help most are the straight, cis practitioners who are willing to get educated, stay open, and show up as vocal, visible allies. You don't have to be queer to do this work. You just have to be willing to learn.

Three quotes from Daniel worth writing down:

"You don't have to be part of this community to work with our communities. You just need to be open-minded, willing to listen, willing to learn, and accepting."

"We know what it feels like to be on the outside — and I think that's exactly why LGBTQ+ communities tend to be so welcoming to everyone who's a bit different."

"Now is the time to step up and be a visible ally and a vocal ally, and just realize how much good work you can do with your skills for this community."

Connect with Daniel Browne: daniel-browne.co.uk 

Connect with Ryan DeJonghe / TranceWell: Website: trancewell.help Email: ryan@trancewell.help

Transcript

0:02

Hello, friends. Hello, family. Thank you so much for tuning in. I really appreciate your presence here. And today we have another wonderful guest. Welcome, Daniel Brown. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And how I came across you was your post in Hypnothoughts Live. You have an upcoming presentation there at the world's largest hypnosis conference. And what's your presentation going to be, Daniel? So my presentation at the conference, and by the way, I love hypnothots. I just love it, everything about it. My presentation, Missy, is the Hypnotic Rainbow, Tailoring Trance for Every Identity. So it's about how we can tailor the hypnosis that we use to work with all the different LGBTQ identities and really kind of drill it down to what the individual needs and about understanding their identity and their needs as well. So I'm looking forward to doing that and also uh a pre-conference one day uh on the mind bender method. So I'm doing that the day before the conference starts. Okay, cool. Let's let's start there. Since that'll be before the conference, what is the mind bender method? That sounds cool. Yeah. So it's basically a a program that I've developed over the last 10 to 15 years in in my work with LGBTQ clients, um, that's really about helping people to heal their shame, to embrace their identity, to build resilience, to let go of a lot of the crap that the world throws at them because of their identity, um, and ultimately come out of that process as a happier, uh, more resilient, more positive person, living authentically and really living in their truth. So it's a 10-step protocol, basically, um, that I do with my clients. So I'm bringing Matt to HypnoForts, and it's the kind of um the these are the identities that you might work with, and this is how you work with these identities and these individuals. So it's a very practical thing, and people will be able to kind of take away their learning and implement it as soon as they get that from HypnoForts. Right. And so these identities that you work with, the 10 you said the 10 steps of the mind-bitter method, does do those 10 steps work with all identities? Yeah, but they do. And and actually I wrote this specifically for LGBTQ plus clients, but actually it can apply to anyone experiencing any kind of identity crisis or issue. You know, I've worked with people, um, met men and women in their kind of 40s, 50s going through a divorce, and they're like, Who am I now? Who am I now out of this marriage that I've been in for decades? Um, it could be people who have lost their job, and that's the only thing they've ever done in their lives. And who are they without that as their identity? So, although it's written for LGBTQ people, it's actually transferable to any kind of identity-related issue, really. And what do you mean by that? That's a great example by like the divorce, and you've you're like kids leaving the house. Those are things where you're like, oh crap, now what? I was the mother, I was the father, and now what? So, how would you define identity crisis? Identity crisis is, I mean, it it can be about losing a sense of who you are. So perhaps you've always had a particular role or status, and then, as you say, it could be the kids leaving home, and then you're not mum anymore. Who who are you without that in your life? So it could be a crisis of not knowing who you are and what direction your your life is going in. But for LGBTQ people, and maybe trans people in particular, it could be really figuring out who they are. They could be feeling so conflicted in their gender, in their identity, not knowing if they are male, if they're female, if they are neither, both, whatever it may be. Um, and that can be really um traumatic in terms of that inner conflict that someone has when we're still figuring out who they are, how they identify, as well as for some people what their purpose in life is. I wonder I kind of want to know like the essence of the mind-bender method of finding that comfort in being who you are, whoever you're becoming. I don't want to give away the secret sauce because I want people to go and see you at Hitna Thoughts. Could you just share what the essence of finding yourself and being confident in yourself is? Yeah. So so the essence of it, you know, within those 10 steps, it really looks at um some of the baggage, some of the stuff that you've been through, but also building resilience because we can't always control the things that happen to us or how people are going to react to us. Will they accept us? Will they accept our identity? All that kind of stuff. But you know, that that's on other people. But of course, we can control how we deal with that and how we build our resilience to it. So it's about resilience, it's about confidence, and it's about helping people find clarity as well. So rather than being directive and saying, okay, you think you might be gay, so let's work with you to affirm your gay identity. It's more about helping people to find the essence of who they are themselves. Um, so the the three things that people probably come out of that process with are uh confidence, resilience, and clarity are probably the top three. Yeah, I'm writing that down. Confidence, resilience, and clarity. I like that. And how did you find this this path of hypnosis, of change work, of helping people to find that confidence, the resilience and clarity? What was your discovery? You know, I I fell into hypnosis. Um, I didn't really know much about it. Um, my background is mental health care. So I used to support people with schizophrenia who had left hospital and were kind of rehabilitating backing back into the community and used a lot of therapeutic skills in that role. Um, so I thought I'm gonna train to become a counsellor and a psychotherapist, which I did, but then there was an option to do a hypnosis qualification. I knew nothing about it other than stage stuff, stuff that I thought was so ridiculous and not real. Um, I've changed my view on stage hypnosis over the years, but that was the view I had at the time. Um, but I thought I'll give it a go, it could be interesting. And from a first class, I was absolutely hooked on hypnosis and just how powerful it is and how it can really help people. And then it turns out that became the career. So it was never intentional. I kind of fell into but I'm I'm glad that I did. Yeah, I I think you share a similar story. Yeah, it's like we talk about these differences, and then yeah, we all have that common thread, not some sort. Okay, so you mentioned, I just want to some clarify clarity because before we talked about before we hit record, we're talking briefly about how people outside of the LGBTQIA plus community uh might be scared to say the wrong thing. You know, like, oh, for instance, like you have he, him as your pronouns on your profile. I imagine it might be scary for people to say, why call you the wrong pronoun? Like, so how do how do how do we contribute to the conversation versus you know scaring each other off? I think the conversations need to happen and people have got to somehow um let go of their fear or put it to one side. Um, and I think you know, in the work that I do and training hypnotists and counselors, fear is often the number one thing. It's not necessarily that people have a problem with LGBTQ uh communities, they just either don't understand it or they're so terrified about saying the wrong thing and offending someone. But we're all human and mistakes happen, and even I make mistakes sometimes. Um and there's been times where I've used the incorrect pronoun for someone or the incorrect name when maybe they've changed their name and pronoun. You know, sometimes it takes a while to get used to it. But I think if mistake does happen, we just need to hold our hands up and own it and apologise for it, not kind of um try and paper over it, but just to say, actually, I've made a mistake there, I hold my hands up and I'm sorry, and I'll commit to trying to get it right in future. Um, and and most people in our communities will be okay with that um and appreciate you realizing that you've made a mistake, but you're trying your your best, which I think is all any of us can do. I I I appreciate that just trying to engage versus like resisting or or just like and then the former resistance could be just dismissing, like, no, that doesn't exist, no, no, no, not since it's it's that engaging communication. And I like there was an interview recently with Shia LeBoe. He's just I don't know if you know the actor. Yeah, and then it was interesting because they were asking about his latest arrest, and he said this big man touched his thigh, and he's like the words he was saying, he's a character, you know. He's like, You could be gay over there, but not gay in my lat. He said, if that makes me a homophobe, then I'm sorry because I am. It's like he owns up to that that label. Like, I realize that might be bad, or you know, some kind of weight to it. Um and he's like apologizing. He's like, I don't know why, it's just who I am. And then I feel that's kind of part of the conversation. Like, why did I react that way? Yeah, I guess with him, at least I mean, uh my general thoughts are he's quite a problematic person, but at least he's self-aware. Self-aware, yeah. It doesn't make it okay, but at least he's aware of it. And I think if people are aware of something, then the better place to work through it. You know, they haven't got their head in the sand, but not blind to it. Yeah, all back to that conversation. Like that's beginning a change is self-awareness, I guess. Is that one of the 10 steps of the mind bender? Is finding self-awareness? It's definitely in there in terms of the finding clarity. Um, self-awareness is a big part of that. Um, you know, how someone may be feeling in terms of the internal battle they've got going on, how they may feel in terms of how people are reacting to their identity. Self-awareness is definitely a part of it. And just to clarify and question on my behalf, I say the whole all the letters, LGBTQIA plus, and I know so you say LGBTQ plus. Is there a difference, or what's the purpose of extra letters? Do you know what? They're all good, but there's so many different versions of that acronym. There's one that's even longer than the one that you've used. Um, and sometimes it depends on where you go in the world as well. So mainland Europe, LGBTI is probably most commonly used. The one that you've used tends to be most common in the US. LGBTQ is most commonly used here. So it depends on where you go in the world, but also it depends on who you're talking to as well. And there's no kind of right or or wrong version of it that you can use. And there's a lot of people just using the word queer as well. And that's got a lot of negative stuff historically, but it's being reclaimed by a lot of people in my community and is seen as a more just all-encompassing word. I I I enjoy that because a lot of what I believe in is in like unity versus like duality, like, oh, you're fat, I'm skinny, or you're rich, I'm poor. You know, these like these separations. I feel like the word queer is nice because it just it blends it all together. Like, I feel like I'm queer. I'm a cis straight man, and but yet I feel queer, you know, like curious and like playing with the different types of identities. You talk about finding an identity. To me, it's like, oh, we have the whole rainbow and we could play, and we don't have to be judging ourselves. I'm red today and yellow tomorrow. You know, it doesn't matter, it's just play. Yeah, exactly. And and people, uh, and people's identity can change and evolve over time as well, as people really discover who they are. Um, I know people who have thought that they are gay or bisexual, but on further self-exploration, I've realized actually they're pansexual, so attracted to people of any gender, it's more about the person than the gender. Um, so people can can change, and I think that's a really good thing about the communities that we're in, the LGBT plus uh communities, is that it's much more open-minded and it's much more acceptable to explore and to change how you identify it, if that's the way you're going. Yeah. I I like how you keep talking about acceptance and and the community in particular, the LGBTQ. I plus I'll say the whole thing. I'll just say, I'll just say the queer community. And the queer community, it's acceptance. Like going out, I just tried out for Mama Mia just because uh the theater production, and everyone there seemed queer of different sorts and types, you know, and everyone was just accepting. Like I get up there with no theater experience and just start singing, and they're like, you know, yay. Go girl, go, or whatever, you know, like yeah. What why do you feel that it feels like that community is so accepting versus because historically our communities have not been accepted, and even now, I mean, it feels like we're going backwards at the moment with you know, not just in the US, there's a lot of stuff that's happening here in the UK as well, that's not okay, and and around the world as well. So I think that historically our communities have not been accepted and have kind of been marginalized and pushed to the fringes of society. So I think that in general just makes us more welcoming to everyone who's a bit different to all types of diversity, because we know what it feels like to be on the outside. Is there an amount of fear in there? Because from the outside, even though I would consider myself queer, because I think everyone's queer, like curious and exploratory, that's like our nature. And what and yet from the sis rule, I'm a straight white man, right? And sometimes it might be scary to go into a predominantly queer place, uh with pride flags and everything. It's a little scary for me sometimes, just as a human. I'm just wondering, is it scary as a queer person for a straight person to come in? Like, oh no, he might be a Trump supporter or something. I don't know, just because I'm white and a male and I'm from Ohio, you know. So, like, so is it scary on the other side of the fence? Yeah, it it can be. I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but certainly in my experience, I've had to do a lot of work on myself to be okay in the company of straight white men because of things that have happened in the past where there was a point where I was terrified to be around straight men. Um, it it's okay now. I've done a lot of that internal work. But I think knowing my experiences and the experiences of some clients that I've worked with, there's definitely that fear. Um, at the moment, I think more so with trans people going into a space that is not wholly trans and not knowing if they're going to be accepted. Um, will they be okay using the toilet that corresponds with their gender? You know, all of those kind of fears. It's very real. But I also get why it might be fearful from the other side as well. Um, going into those spaces, not because you're homophobic or anything like that, because it's different and because you also want to be accepted in that's it. Yeah, exactly. Like the fear is me not being accepted. And then, like I said, with the theater thing, I was accepted. And that internal work that you did, what are some of the side effects? Like when you're or you can even frame it from the the client perspective, when you're helping them and they're getting that confidence, that resilience, that clarity, what are some of the other side effects? You know, like I don't know, health or or emotional states like depression, maybe might be lifted. What have you seen? Yeah, all of those things and more because it's also interconnected. And if we're feeling more confident about something, we might feel more healthy. If we form feel more healthy in our body and our mind, you know, that it all has a knock-on effect, doesn't it? Um, and certainly in my experience, feeling more confident around straight white men in particular um allowed me just to feel more confident in general going into any kind of space and thinking actually I'm gonna be okay. Most people are fine with gay people. It's just a few idiots in the minority that are not, you know. Um, so there's all sorts of knock-on effects. Um, and and as I say, the the mind and the body are so connected. So if someone's feeling more confident and better mentally, then they'll take care of their physical health a bit more as well. I love that. And so we talked about the mindbender, that's the pre-conference. Now, the the the presentation at the conference, is that you said that's for the people like myself and just like experiencing how to work with the rainbow of people. Yeah, absolutely. And my target audience is always um straight cis people. Um, you know, LGBTQ plus people, very welcome to come along. Um, but I may be teaching things that they already know. Yeah. Um so it's for the straight and and cis people who are really like to come along to my things because we're in a time in the world where we really need allies, we really need more people working with our communities, and you don't have to be part of this community to work with our communities. You just need to be open-minded, uh willing to listen, willing to learn, um, and accepting basically. You know, if you've got that as a foundation, then you can do some really good work with our communities. It's like you're reading my mind. I was going to ask a question. And what's the like what's the beginning roots of working with the LGBTQ I plus community? Like what, you know, and you said it there, the openness, the acceptance, the you know, the welcoming. And it's like when you have that welcoming spirit, it seems like the fear kind of just dissipates. It's like I welcome you. Whatever the experience comes, and then the fear just goes away. Yeah, exactly. And then continuing to listen and to learn because we're all on that journey. And I'm you know, my specialism is working with these communities, and I I teach kind of everywhere on this stuff. Um, but even I'm still learning and still growing. And I think that as practitioners, as hypnotists, we've just got to keep doing that. I guess whatever kind of clients we're working with, but certainly with clients who are different or diverse in some way. Right, right. And you mentioned that work on yourself, and then earlier you mentioned you did a lot of the work on yourself. Where does that begin? Like, where where do you begin to work on yourself? Like, what's the process of of that? So the first step, I think, was self-awareness. And you know, we referred to self-awareness a bit earlier on, and it was becoming aware that I had an issue. Um, you know, I I kind of had at the back of my mind, I'm not too comfortable with straight white men. Yeah, I don't really know why. But over time it was just affecting me so much in terms of my business, being able to go to networking events or you know, stuff like that. I just stopped going to things because there might be straight white men there, because they're so evil. Um, so it it was, you know, becoming self-aware. And when I became more self-aware, I was then able to do something about it. I was able to go and have some therapy. I was able to discuss with my straight white friends, male friends who I did have, um, you know, uh how I was thinking and kind of get their perspective on it. Um, and then a lot of reflecting, a lot of moments of of silence, just sitting and thinking and sitting with those thoughts, understanding them. Nice. I think you kind of answered the question there too, about how does one become self aware? Because one of my fears is that I might have a bias and I might not be aware of the thing I'm unaware of. So, how do we become aware of that which is hidden? It it's difficult. And I and I talk about this quite often in my trainings about uh Um, you know, being confronted with something that we're prejudiced about or um have a biased thought about that maybe we were not aware of previously. And I think most people will have some prejudice thought about something. We're we're human beings, but it just might be buried so deeply that we're not aware of it. But I think the important thing is that when we are confronted with it, to work through it, to do the work, to do the reflecting, to think, okay, where has that thought come from? I didn't know I had it in me, but where has that come from? Yeah. And and and do that internal work. I appreciate that. And then going back a little bit further, you're talking about the different types of people in the community, and we talked about the trans people that are, you know, that's a big thing to be attached to your your sex. And then so, what's some helpful things that we as change workers can help support and people that are going through that process? I think the first thing is just to accept the person as they are and not let any biased, thoughts, or prejudice come into it. So you may have someone sitting in front of you who um identifies as as female, they are female, they're living as female, but they may not look how you think a female should look, for example. Um, so first of all, it's just about accepting that person for who they are. And then beyond that, it's the real kind of basic level stuff. So name and pronouns, respecting those, using the correct name, the correct pronouns, um, and then taking it from there, really. So it's kind of those small things that are the foundations. And I think if you've got those, everything becomes a bit easier, actually. Right. Yeah. Like even in hypnosis, like once you got that pre-talk down. Well, even before that, once you have that rapport, and then that's the easy part. You got that rapport and then that pre-talk, and then everything else is just icing, little little window dressings. Yeah. Cool. So what's next for you after Hypnothots? What are you up to? Um after Hypno Thoughts, I'm off to LA. I'm back in US in September, the Hypno LA, the new conference. Yeah. Um, so I'll be presenting at VAT um and then London in November, somewhere a bit closer to home. Um, but really just focusing on on my clinical work. I I do a lot of traveling, I do a lot of training all over the place and balance that with seeing my clients in my private practice. So I'm really keen to make sure that I'm giving enough time to that and the people who are coming to see me. Yeah. And what are people seeing you for? What are they what you're what's your primary client? Um at the moment, a lot of anxiety. Um, you know, when I I've been a hypnotist for 17 years now. And when I started, there was a lot of quit smoking, there was a lot of weight loss. Now anxiety is the number one kind of across the board. Yeah. Um, probably 60 to 70 percent of my clients at the moment are trans, and we're doing a lot of work on um identity, a lot on healing, a lot on navigating the world that we're in right now. Um, we've just, I mean, it feels like the world is on fire in a number of ways. Um, and trans people are bearing the brunt of a lot of that. So there's a lot of focus on that resilience again and confidence. Yeah. Yeah. Those words were bouncing around my head as you're talking. That that confidence. Once you have that confidence in your identity and you're resilient, and then that anxiety seems like it just dials down a little bit because that primary confidence is there. That's beautiful. Yeah. And then, of course, we'll have the links to the in this podcast to your presentation, your workshop, and then of course, um, you, you know, if people want to get in touch with you and learn more. And I'm wondering before we let you go, what's one thing that kind of bubbles up for you that you would just like the whole world to know in this moment? Any messages that come up? Yeah, I think the number one thing for me at the moment is that our communities really need allies. We really need the straight cis people to be working with our communities and to be learning about this stuff. Um the kind of crisis we've got in LGBTQ communities at the moment is just getting you know bigger and bigger. Um, so I would say if you're you're curious about learning this kind of stuff, or you consider yourself an ally, now's the time to step up and be a visible ally and a vocal ally and just realize how much good work you can do with your skills um for this community. So it's a call to action, I guess, for all allies to step up and to get involved in this work. Yeah, that's that's beautiful. I appreciate that. Yeah, it makes me want to be a little more vocal and being an ally. It's like because sometimes it could be dark and scary out there, and if you know we turn on our porch light per se and say, We're open to you. We're welcome to you. That'd be cool. So, Daniel, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Good to talk.