Grief, sorrow, and when the healing doesn’t seem to work (special episode with Lance Baker)

Yesterday, I broke down and cried in the middle of the grocery store. Here's an article I wrote about it:

https://medium.com/trancewell/grief-sorrow-and-when-the-healing-doesnt-seem-to-work-592d48a353e6?sk=716685a230703bea6bed2babceae5e87

Please enjoy this episode. If you need support or want to explore what is possible in your life, write me at ryan@trancewell.help.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

All right. Whoever is listening right now, I'm happy you're here because I felt compelled to have this conversation with us today. My quickly new and great friend, Lance Baker. Hey Lance. Hello. So I am I'm good because you're here. Thank you. Yeah. Lance, you're you're interesting to me, right? There's I don't know how many people on the hypnotherapy Facebook group, like 30,000, something like that. What a big. And I've now posted, I think, 57 podcasts interviewing different people. Some of the top people in hypnosis and energy healing and uh mediums and shamans, and yet something keeps bringing me back to you, Lance. Yeah, it's you got a lot going on. Yeah, there is something about that Aussie accent. I do appreciate that. Yeah. Um recently you posted something on Facebook about your Nan. It was a beautiful, beautiful post. Um one of the pictures was there's this uh pyramid thing that someone gave to you. Was it your dad?

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Uh my dad gave it to me. It was it was Nan's, like he'd like Nan's. And what was that uh a couple of months ago. So we'll uh we got to like do the the clearing out of all of her stuff um beforehand. Uh weirdly, my dad didn't even think I'd be interested in in the the pyramid. Uh so we tried to give it to like some witch store and they uh they didn't want to when he mentioned me. I was like, oh shit, yes, yes, yes, yes, of course. Didn't think you'd be excited. Uh I looked at buying one before, but they're like too expensive to import. Um so it's it's a meditation pyramid. Um, I wanted it as the experiment as well. Like, I didn't know if it'd do what they say uh it'd do. Um, but I like put it together and sat in it and and straight away, like everything was was buzzing, and uh Ranchard was like way more open than the normal, and like the energy literally felt different in it, and it feels different in it if you're like in the middle of it or not quite the middle of it. It's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I it's that experiment, you say it's an experiment. I love how you experiment with so many things, like you fly around the world, you you've flown Bob Burns down to you. Like you're like looking for the glitches in the matrix and you're finding them.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah, well uh the experiment would come to me to be so important. Um when I was with Felix Connemarkis, so he's hypnotherapist from London. Uh he works with ARFIT, avoidant restrictive food intake disorder. And um, so was teaching for the Australian Academy of Hypnosis, and we brought him out with Bob. He's a friend of Bob's, that's a reason why he was he was coming out because he was a specialist in a unique thing. Uh and Bob's like, bring this guy out, he's cool. And uh so we we brought Felix out to do his thing for a weekend, and um unbeknownst to like my um my mate and boss of the academy and Bob and Felix, it was a condition I'd had for like since I was four, something like that, till this was in my mid-40s, mid-30s for me. Um I'm already in my mid-40s. Uh projecting myself to be way older than I am. No, uh, it was in my mid-30s. Um, and Felix did the process with me as as a demonstration in the class. Uh, and it worked like since then I can eat pretty much anything. I don't enjoy a lot of things, but I'll I'll try anything. Uh and a big bit of it was him saying the word experiment to experiment to work out what foods were safe and what foods weren't, not what ones I liked, what ones were safe. But I felt the change happen with the word experiment. Um, and it was profound for me in that moment of like yeah, and experiments are scientific. That's there's there's nowhere to lose. You just get data. This works, this doesn't work. This works really well, this kind of works. This is good, this is bad. Like you you just get information from an experiment and you tweak it, you do it again, and a true experiment, it doesn't end. Like you fine-tune it, make it different. Thomas Edison had to like experiment for a long time to get the light bulb to go. Uh, and now we've got like LED lights.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

I love the story of Edison there, yeah, because like it's like years, like he's in his basement. I feel related to that. He's in there like trying to filament, blowing all his family's money. His wife's up there trying to keep the investors out from knocking on the door, you know, like their families eating uh leaked soup.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

He had a lab assistant that was weirded out because Edison would get excited when it didn't work. It failed, and he'd like dance and sing and stuff, and and this this lab assistant had to like build up the courage to ask him, like, why are you excited, man? Like, this just failed. It's like there's one more thing we don't have to try. We're getting closer.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

I didn't I didn't know that. That's crazy. Like, I wish I had that ability to dance in every failure. I'm not quite there yet.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

But I try and take that as much as I can with life from having that experience and seeing that and getting like these different ideas around it. Experiments are great. You can shift with different things. If you're walking in with an expectation, you the high chance you're gonna get let down, uh, or you're gonna feel like an idiot. Because oh no, this is yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Well, how did he know to keep going? Like he wanted to create this thing that wasn't created before and just kept failing and failing, and my mind would stop, would be like, Well, all right, 20 times I've tried this for a year now, I've done so many different variations of it, and it's just not working, so maybe it's not possible. Like, how do you know if you're on that Don Quixote going after the dragon, the windmill, or if you're in Edison? How do you know, like it almost the word that comes to my mind is you're compelled? If if you're having fun with the experiment, what what difference does it make?

SPEAKER_02 7:56

If what? If you're having fun with that experiment, what difference does it make if it's a few dollars want to get you somewhere?

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Well, his wife didn't like it. I'm sure it's I'm sure he didn't have fun with her being like, Tom, how are we paying the bills this month? Like, why don't you go out and you know get a newspaper route or something? Like, you know, go go get some money, Tom. Like, why are you in the basement all the time dancing over your failures?

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Divorce wasn't as common back then. He may or may not have loved her as much as uh you love your wife.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

That's fair, yeah. Um so then the question, like you're talking about experiments, and we're we both are energy healers. You know, I I hesitate to say that because it's like I never feel like I'm the one healing, right? I feel like I'm a channel. And sometimes I'm called to I'll say just for lack of words here, pray over someone to hold them in that space of loving-kindness awareness. Sometimes I witness healing, and sometimes I don't.

unknown 9:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

So the question that plagues me is why was I called to do this ritual, this energy healing on a person, and they didn't get healed?

SPEAKER_02 9:38

An interesting question. Uh I've I've thought about this in a bunch of different ways before. Uh start by one of I'm s I'm certain we had when you come on my podcast, um I prayed for the migraines that I had to disappear. And um just prayed for just one split second's worth of it to disappear. Swore off God because it didn't happen. And then like oh, I don't know how long it was, maybe six or seven years later. Um I I got the answer and it went. Uh and my my question was like, did did God introduce Reiki to me? Because like to me that feels like the Holy Spirit. So did that prayer get answered? And my concept of time and God's concept of time are completely different. Because if you're talking to an something that's existed forever, whether you're talking in a god concept of like Yahweh or some of the other pantheons of gods, or you're talking about just the energy of the universe. No matter what one it is, you're talking about eons of time. Uh so this thing that's been around for eons of time, talking to this puny human that like lives for like 80-ish years, um, that life cycle is that within the other thing's life cycle. So, like you've you've told somebody I'll be a second, and be more than a second, right? You've probably told somebody you'll be a second bear a few days.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

That's why I like replacing that word with uh it's just a minute, just a five minutes. I replace it with just a moment. It'll be just a moment.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Just be in the moment and I'll get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so part of my question is well time consideration. Where's that? But then there's there's other times where that's not also the case. Um there's there's a thing I've heard lots of different people talk about of like sometimes God dots unanswered prayers of the gift. Like, because we're the dumb humans. So what we're asking for might not be what we need. Uh but like a few years ago I went through something that really wasn't good. I tried to stop it and like asked the universe, no no, let it just fix this up, like make this make this problem go like uh and if it did, it would have been giving me a big problem. And hindsight can tell me that now. But when I was in it, it couldn't. And now, having been through that, I see all this value of this thing that I went through that I hated going through, that it was torturous going through. That's been really, really beneficial to who I am as a human, how I can show up at the world and how I can influence and help heal other people because I went through that tragedy. So sometimes it's it's it's part of the lesson of that journey to there. So, like I talked to you before about like going for faith healings early on with that migraine, and they didn't work. Um it could have been they didn't work because I had to find the thing myself. I didn't have to have somebody else do it for me. When I first had Reiki done, it didn't heal the thing. When I first did it myself, um after a little bit of first doing it myself, it went. Uh the problem popped back up a few years ago when I was going through the other thing to highlight, to make me look at the thing. I was ignoring it. It's like, yeah, we're gonna ignore this. Bring something up. And so I I talk a lot with my clients about signals. And um so smoke detectors is the metaphor I use for my signals. I think everything within our body, like physical pains and itches and tingles and enjoyable sensations, tastes, smells, uh, all of our emotion spectrums, they're all just signals. Say pay attention to something. Like when you smell like freshly baked cake, part of you's going, hmm, alarm bells. There's something yummy to eat. Go for it. Uh you smell f smoke. Uh like in your house and nobody smokes in that house, you think danger. Uh so I used to have uh smoke detector in this place. I remember living in. Mid-20s, maybe. Uh it was a cheap dodgy came out. Smoke detector. Like it would have been a $20 thing. It went off halfway through cook and toast. Like my toast wasn't even brown yet, and this smoke detector's going off. Like there's a fire in my kitchen. And and the house was like so low to the ground, and and it's so in the shade that mold would grow on the walls. Like it was a wet house. It was half cooked, and the smoke detector's gone off. This thing is useless. Uh so I got up on a chair and I took the thing down, took the battery out of it, and I sat it on top of the fridge and the battery next door. And that's where it stayed until I had to move the fridge to move out. So I had no smoke detector in the house. Actually, there was one uh in the hallway. Uh the main area which would need a smoke detector had no smoke detector. Uh and so now my smoke detector, I've got like Google Home once. So there's four of them in this house, two downstairs, two upstairs. Uh, they're all linked to one another. They're all linked to my phone. If one of them goes off, my phone goes off. Every one of them's got a speaker in it. And they say there's smoke detected in the kitchen. So even if I'm downstairs, he'll tell me the smoke detected in the kitchen. There'll be an alarm soon. It will be loud. Now if I go to the kitchen and look around and there's no fire, I can press a button on my phone or on a machine and it stops. If I'm downstairs and I press a button on my phone and make it stop, it doesn't work. No, I'm not there. I haven't checked the signal. Um so it's really great at learning me. I've only heard the alarm once because I've got to it from it just talking to me and checking, and it's okay. Umce I didn't get to it quick enough and I had to hear the alarm, and there was something not proper fire, but something I needed to attend to. So signals are going off whenever somebody needs healing. Are they looking at the right thing? Like Western medicine just shuts down signals. Take this painkiller. Like it's there in the title. We're gonna kill the pain, not the source of the pain. Not the problem. We're taking the batteries out. Uh it's not dealing with getting a better system for detecting and it's not dealing with whatever got detected. And so when that migraine came back for me uh a few years ago, um I I was super vulnerable. Uh and I was on a podcast about movies. And uh and I I I I picked a movie about like uh Pi. Um Aronofsky's first film. Uh about uh The Brain. And uh and this guy who has migraines. And I shared like that this migraine had come back. Like it'd only be back like two weeks at that stage or a week or something. Uh and I'd done some freaking out about it, uh, but I hadn't healed it. I wasn't gonna heal it. Listen first to work out what that signal was before I did any healing on it. Uh and it took me a couple months to work out what it was. Uh and the moment that I like agreed of what it was and agreed I was gonna do something about what it was, the migrate stopped. I didn't have to heal it away. My unconscious got the the deal. Like I did some self-hypnosis with it. I didn't ask this thing to go away. I was like, uh I've got this. Is it time for me to heal it now? And yeah, I felt energetic sensations in that same spot, but all the pain disappeared. And the energetic sensations were gone by morning.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

It's wonderful. I love Lance your analogy here of the signal, and it reminds me of a book, Malcolm Gladwell's Blink, about listening to he calls it the adaptive unconscious. Um, real quick, there's a cool study they did where it was four decks of cards. It was a gambler's game. Two were red backs, two were blue backs, and the idea is the participant would flip over a card and it would either gain you money or lose you money for every card you pulled. And then so the participants would pull, pull, pull, and it was stacked. The blue cards were more favorable in general. So it took the person's conscious mind about 80 cards to figure out the game. The thing is, they measured the sweat on the palm. And this adaptive unconscious knew the game at 20 cards in. It's like it, you know. And then he goes on and talks about there's this executive, I forget what company, where when he's making a deal or deciding the path a company, sometimes his back hurts. And he's like, nah, I'm not gonna do this deal. And it's it's a hard sell to tell the investors of a multi-million percent, I think it's a billion-dollar company, I didn't do this because my back hurts. So then you gotta go back and figure out the justification of why he didn't do the deal. He can't just tell him, Oh, my back hurt. It and yet it never failed him. And then I look back in my own life and I'm like, every time I didn't trust my gut was when I got into a And I just imagine looking back at Thomas Edison, he had that gut that said this is going to be possible. Or look at Madame Curry, like the radiation. Uh, you know, I forget what element she needed. And it didn't exist. Just something says, go find it. It's out in the world somewhere, go find it. You know? Now you mentioned Western medicine. Like we just kind of we take the battery out. Or we or another analogy is you see the check engine light pop up and you put a piece of tape over it. So you no longer see the tape, yet the engine's still, you know, until pretty soon the other clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk, and the car just breaks down, right? And it's funny because my daughter-in-law, she's getting married to this Indian man, and his family were of the cast of teachers. And then it's a delight because when they're over here in the States, I love just chatting with them. They said that at one point in India there were no hospitals. They were shocked when they came to America and saw these giant buildings to the house and to heal. I put that in quotation marks. It's like so the question then goes back to your someone comes to you with a stigma, and I'll use uh pretty one that has a lot of emotional weight, cancer. And they say, I've been diagnosed with cancer. And we've seen people that have the spontaneous remission of cancer. And again, I don't claim to be the healer. I'm just it's almost like something's going through me to push me into the direction of that person, and something I believe is pushing that person to come to me. And in that connection is when healing happens.

unknown 24:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it does. One, how do we create a space to maximize the potential of healing to happen? And two, if we're both pulled by the universe or God to be with one another, what gives?

SPEAKER_02 24:40

So well, there's a few different things with it. So um a guy who I mentored hypnosis with years ago, Rick Collingwood, uh, he was telling me he was involved with a study about um cancer for hypnosis, hypnotic healing of cancer. And I forget the stats, so so bear with me with this. I wasn't planning to pull this memory forward to be able to get the right information. Um he said, like, there's there's different kinds of cancer. There's cancer that's caused from um environmental sort of things like radiation and and all the rest, like that. Something from outside uh has affected it. Uh a genetic thing or an emotional base thing. Hypnosis worked on the emotional base thing again and again and again. It could do nothing for the others uh in the study that he done. Um and that that's what I remember of the conversation I had with him. So take that with a grain of salt. I didn't read the study. Um this is just talking with a guy who did this study years ago. Um I've had a few clients with cancer that I've done different things with. So I had one a few years ago who I taught her Reiki. I did Reiki on her. Uh I taught her self-hypnosis and I did hypnosis with her. And she went and did all this other stuff as well. It went into remission. And she was clear, and she said she did self-hypnosis afterwards, asking her unconscious, like with her list of things of what things the bit that worked the most, and then what come after that, and what come after that. Self-Rakey was the highest, self-hypnosis was the next. Um I forget the rest, but sessions with me for each of those other things were were quite up there, but nowhere near as high as that. I think I think they were like either positions three and four or four and five or five and six, somewhere around that. Very much up the top of the list of things that were going on. And nutrition was up there as well. Um, but the two self-help tools of energy and self-hypnosis did it. And with that, I was like talking with her consciousness to like going through the study of what she'd said of how it could heal. I coached her body of like follow the process of how this is supposed to heal, of what's supposed to happen, and make that work. Uh it was an experiment. I was asking it to to experiment with those things. Uh and then she was following that up each day with different things and giving it that coaching of the healing process along the way, and she'd read heaps, so she knew heaps, so she could do a better job of it than than I could. Um I've had a bunch of students that have like come to learn Reiki to do self-healing, that have had remissions. Um I had a lady this was when I was in Merriweather, uh I think this would have been about six or seven years ago. She had uh breast cancer on on the left side. And um her unconscious told me that if uh if she stopped chasing the guy that she was chasing and she gave up on him, it would go away. It would be able to heal. But it was from heart pain. Projecting out of the heart and her her book. Uh that it would so her choice was give up on this guy who says he's not gonna be available for her. Uh but he was becoming available for her, like he got back with her, so to speak, to help her on a healing journey. Uh the cancer was working to bring this guy back into her life in a way. Uh but if she gave up on him, it would reverse it and heal it. Uh there's a park bench near me that's got her name on it. She didn't choose to give up on him. T she's no longer here. Uh I only saw that once. Uh if I saw her a bunch of times from from what happened in that, I believe I might have. But uh as as Bob told me time and time again, real imagined. Like that response from her unconscious could have just been imagined. It might not have been able to fix that thing. And she might have been sad with that. Uh, I don't know. Uh, but that that sits with me. Every time I go past that park, I think about her, I think about that situation. Be like, could have I helped her? Uh should have I pushed her to give up on the guy? It's not my place to do. Yeah. I showed her the signal. Did she listen to it? That's her choice. That's all with cancer patients. It's like, well, what if it's emotional? What's the emotion behind it? And can we do something about it? Can we stop whatever's festering inside of them to stop this thing festering inside them? Uh, that's where my belief sits. And you've talked to me before, you know, some of my beliefs are weird, so I don't this is not me telling people this is like science and this is everything. This is could be faulty. Uh, but that's what I sit with of like, if I want to help somebody, what's the signal and I might be able to get somewhere? Um, but sometimes I'm not trying to heal the thing. So, like, we're talking about my nan. My nan found out like a week before she had three types of cancer. Uh, when I was giving her healing, she was already like the the home had stopped feeding her and had her on morphine. Like it was exit time. It was not time for a if I gave her a spontaneous healing, nobody would have known about it. Um it was it was too rapid and too quick. My thing was take away pain while while we're here, if I can, if I can add to the morphine of giving her comfort, that's what the healing was for. And I uh sent healing from her meditation pyramid to uh to help her transition, to help her spirit to feel better on the other side. Um again, really imagine like everything I did with that might have just been to comfort me. Uh might have been to help her spirit on the other side. Um I I feel my belief um is backed with stuff because I've done stuff before and then had a medium who didn't know about that stuff tell me about this stuff. Well some pretty good accuracy there of like what I did. Um but the focus of my healing is different when you're talking about where somebody's sitting with their spirit compared to where somebody's body has something happening in it.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Yeah, that was gonna be a follow-up. Yeah. There was a a day three, four years ago I went to the dentist. And what did I have done? I think I had like a feeling done or something like that, and they had to drill and fill and all the rest. Um and they're all like poking around and stuff, and I did self-hypnosis. Sitting in the chair, I do some extra self-hypnosis. My self-hypnosis is idiomotorbed, so like I do while I'm my eyes open, I can do it while I'm talking with somebody and still like do things in the background with it. Uh but I was like, this this guy, I'm paying him. He's a dentist. He's got years of experience at this. Got a Joel Blue Renown clinic here, like he's okay. We can trust him. Uh he knows what he's doing. But to do so, he has to poke and prod and drill in this mouth. Pain signals here today are useless for me. I don't want pain signals. These signals don't need to be there. This is me asking my fire alarm system to take the battery out for this this time while I'm here with him. Afterwards, we can put it in. But afterwards, he's gonna tell us a bunch of stuff about what we'll probably will feel. Uh if there are things I need for sensing to give him feedback, I want to feel those. If there are things he's just telling me what I'll feel that are just gonna be things that everybody feels that is meaningless, I don't want to feel those. You can take those away. That worked for me. He made comments about how well I was doing. Uh like this is weird, and he apologized for things, and there was no reflex from me.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

It's hilarious. It reminds me of my last tennis visit. Like, I was laughing because I was surprised at how well it worked. I was like, Oh, this is weird. And it's you're right. He's like they're telling you you're gonna feel a sting, or you're gonna feel a poke, or you know, whatever. And then I was like, just laughing. He's like, Wow, you're really calm and patient. Thank you so much. You know, like there's a couple times where he's like, oops, like yeah, he didn't say the word oops, but it's kind of like that, like, oops, I didn't mean to do that. We gotta redo the whole thing, and like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Um so that all worked. Then I come home and I stepped on a bee. Do you think I could take away that bee sting? My head in for ages. I'm like just doing self-hypnosis and reiki on it. Couldn't take it away, I could dull it, but I couldn't take it away. And then as I was going to sleep that night, I heard a thought. Grandcons just told me the answer of why it didn't go away. Really wished I could have been able to hear that thought much, much, much earlier. Uh I didn't acknowledge the poison. The beasting had a poison to it. It wasn't a strong poison, but it was a poison. There was a toxin in my body at that site. And the alarm system was telling me about that toxin. None of my questions acknowledged that toxin. If I'd acknowledged that toxin, I probably could have made that beasting go away, just like all the stuff at the desk. But I was just focused on a beasting and pain and the feeling I was feeling there. I was like not thinking of what the alarm was. I was like, I know I stepped on a bee. It's not gonna hurt me, I don't need the thing. But it was like there's a toxin here. It could have been separate as far as my mind was concerned. It was like, well, maybe you stood on a bee and you stepped in some poison. There's something here that you need to pay attention to, so I'm gonna keep the sensation there.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

A little like interjection there. I I had someone on the podcast recently who said that one of their students was able to take away the tears when they're chopping onions. I was like, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. I was like, oh dang. I'm pretty I'm pretty sure you could throw that. Yeah, isn't that funny? Yeah, and then when you're talking about the beasting, like you're you're like, oh, look at me. I I got to the dentist, you know, every you know, a lot of people have the fear there and the pain and anxiety, and you're like, oh right, I nailed it. You know, I got the compliments from the dentist, and then this little tiny bee is like, ha ha ha. Look at you, Mr. Hypnotist. How good are you? It's like a little like pride check there, you know. Like for me, that would be it, you know, like, yeah, I did great at the dentist, and then come back and like, damn it, I got a paper cut. You know, like so. The question there is one, you said you wish you would have been able to hear the unconscious talking to you.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Yeah. Well, it didn't give me that information when I was trying to talk with it. I was just getting yes guys.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Yeah. So how do we hear the voice? Some and the question is two. One, how do we hear it? And then two, how do we distinguish it from all these other voices? You know, like there's a lot of voices out there, and sometimes they're really loud.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Uh well, there is a thing called an idiocognitive thing. So um I will quite often use that and I don't recall using it that day. Like when I do self-hypnosis, I give myself maybe five percent of what I'd give a client. Like too close to the picture to be able to like think of the right things to ask. So I've got good rapport inside, uh, and if I'm on the right page, things work really well. If I'm on the wrong page, I don't get far. Um, and I prefer to see somebody else when it's like that. Uh doesn't help in emergency situation when you step on a B, but not a big enough emergency for me to call in a friend to like make a beast and go away. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yeah, it's it's like an annoyance that's enough to like practice on. And I I think you nailed the word there, Lance, is when you said the rapport, like developing the rapport with your unconscious. And so I'm just wondering how do you well the yeah, how do you develop this rapport with your unconscious? Experiments.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

Um, I develop a rapport by if I ask something, I'm gonna pay respect to what it is, uh, and different things about the way I communicate with myself. Like telling myself I'm an idiot for every mistake I make is not gonna be good for internal rapport, is it? Um so yeah, uh a respect kind of thing. Like, how do you build rapport with people? Like there's lots of tricks you could do to get short-term rapport, but basically you've just got to get alignment with the person.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Like I love that word alignment, yeah. Like, and then and you're talking to your unconscious and building rapport with it and coming to an alignment with it, so that your conscious and the unconscious are in alignment. It's trying to help me in some way.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Like I think the hardest bit about my job uh is the unconscious rapport. Like somebody's coming in with a problem, and they've maybe talked to their partner or their parents or themselves over this thing. Like anxiety and trauma are the main things I do. So let's say anxiety. They're anxious. Like, I'm gonna go to this hypnotism and get rid of this anxiety. So this voice they've been hearing inside that's that's trying to help them in a way, but just doing a really bad job of it by putting them down. Uh here's going to this bloke and he's gonna get rid of me. Shit. I do not like this guy to begin with. Um, like ghosts when the Ghostbuster vehicle pulls up. They don't think they're gonna have a fun party. Exactly. These guys. So I'm gonna help that anxious part inside of somebody feel like I understand it and I can see how it's trying to help before I can even begin to talk with it, to be able to get it to change its tune to do my version of its thing rather than its version of its thing. So there's there's a lot of different levels of rapport I have to get to be able to start the conversation and then be able to move that conversation to where it's helpful. Uh now I only have these 90-minute windows with with this person. Uh and most people I'm only saying a handful of times because they're coming for just an issue and they're going. They're not like looking to like redo their life. Some some do and and they get great results from from that. But most are an issue, so there's a handful of times. Maybe they're back a few years later for another issue in a handful of times. But um my unconscious, I'm with it all day and every day. So sometimes I'll get in old patterns and and I won't be nice to it, and other times I will. But it it comes down to that signals thing. I'm constantly trying to go, well, what's this signal about? Like how could this be trying to help me? Uh, like if I'm hearing an unconscious thought of you idiot, just trying to teach me a lesson. I don't get that very often now. Uh last time was a few years ago when I renovated this place. Uh I was doing a lot of building that's not my everyday stuff, and I'd like lose tools or fuck up how I put Jiprock together or building frame or yeah, the first time I used like a air compressor nail gun, like I had to use this stuff. This is not my everyday thing. I'm not a builder. Um So the amount of times like before that, I thought I was really good with my my self-talk. I started doing this thing I wasn't used to, and I realized how often I'd said you fucking idiot. Whatever. Like stopping myself and doing self-hypnosis things, like building to go, you're not an idiot. I'm frustrated, this is that. Um, and so when I catch myself doing something I don't like, if I can, I'll try and correct that and and repair. Like sometimes you'll say something stupid in front of somebody and then be like, Oh, sorry, I didn't mean it like that. Right. So do that same sort of thing. Um, but uh I want to go back to what you said about before of the how do you get that thought? Um, because somebody might be wanting to try this sort of thing. Um, so as I said, I use idiomotor-based things, yes, no, maybe I don't know, through finger signals for me. But you can ask open-ended questions with that sort of stuff and get stuff. Uh, I've had great change from people about things I did not know uh were a thing till I did that. So uh when I get stuck, I'll ask the question of do you do you know what's in the way of this? And might say yes. It's okay. Not asking you to do this yet. But if you think you could, do you think you could give that person a thought or an idea about it? And so it's the loophole. If you don't have direct voice, you can get them to have a thought. So for some people it might be a picture, uh, and then they describe that picture. For some other people, it's in a dialogue, and they'll here's something. Now, most of the time when I've done that, um you see like the yes finger go up in the middle of like because I'll ask if you the first question, like I said, there was like, do you think you not asking to do this yet, but you think you could if I asked you to, then I'll ask it to well do that if it says yes. Um, like to space that out so there's time for a bit of like grab that thought. Uh but as then like I'm leaving them alone for a minute with their thoughts to be able to hear the signal over what this is, the yes single usually go off at a point, and it's like that was the moment where something was coming through. So sometimes people don't notice that. I'll be like, Did you just try that then? Yes, was it when you flicked that yes single? Yes, okay, can you do it again? But more often than not, when it's actually come through, the person said, I no, I had this other thought about this thing. I'm like, okay, what was that? And then I repeat that back as a question. Did you just tell the person this that? Yes. Okay, is that the thing that's in the way of this? Yes. Okay. So, like the first time I played with this clinically, it was the woman had thrown a rock at a boy when she was in primary school. And had zero effect on her life now. But there was an inner shame or guilt about that. So we cleared that and it cleared this other adult pattern. Neither me or the client could really see how that was connected with the thing. But she got the solution from us dealing with this thing. Uh so it really helped prove that this was was the case. Um I had somebody do it with me once um about um a chocolate milk addiction that I had. Uh that highlight itself to be a real signal. Uh, and so it started with a few things, but because she kept engaging with this, it transitioned. Um, she did it long enough and it turned in direct voice. Uh four-year-old me was just talking to her. Uh and I found things out about when I was four that I didn't know, like there's bits I did know, there's bits I didn't know. Um, I broke my female bone. I spent six weeks in hospital when I was four. So excuse me. Um during that, I found out the reason I had chocolate milk was not like just some sugar addiction like I thought it was. It was because when I was in hospital, my mum would bring me chocolate milk. There was a nurse there that liked me that would sneak extra chocolate milk to me and stuff like that. So chocolate milk was the thing that made me feel comfortable when shit was really uncomfortable because it was not a comfortable environment. Like in the 80s in Australia, in a small town, you don't have a children's ward, you've got just an open ward with other people in it, and it's just hospital. Um, and so now in my life, when I'm stressed and I'm under pressure and some uncomfortable things are in my life, part of me tells me it's chocolate milk time.

unknown 49:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

And so now, if I feel like a chocolate milk, I am straight away looking around where's the fire? Like, what is this? And I'll talk to my unconsciousness and be like, okay, we'll deal with this. And so that was like years ago I found that out. But the thing I was talking about that happened three years or so ago. I had to have chocolate milk every day for like three months while I was working through something. Um, because I was like unconscious, yeah, I get it. I can't fix this thing right now. Uh, this is just something we have to like get through. Uh, so I'll have it. And so I had chocolate milk every day for that. Extra time. So we had chocolate milk after that, where there were other patches to do with the same thing. Um, but it was like, yeah, signal received, um, solution not available. Uh, poor coping mechanism, it is where it could have been uh something I could have done about. And there has been different times where that had popped up within that bit where I was like, I can do something about this today. Uh, I'm not gonna have that, I'm gonna do the thing. Use that prompt as the action of it's time to do the thing, not it's time to have that coping mechanism to wash away the pain and to do it.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Um, so yeah. I I I appreciate to me what I'm witnessing is like developing a relationship with your unconsciousness. And uh part of it is like I'm thinking of Carnegie's how-to when friends influence people, like first like learning its name and respecting the importance of it. And the other thing is I'm thinking of Caldini in his book Influence, and there's the reciprocal thing, there's the nature within us to like it gives us signals. What does it want in return? And then the other analogy is like it's almost like an offering to a god, like to if I'm going to the altar kine and I'm bringing fruit, what does the unconscious want as an offering?

SPEAKER_02 52:09

So the main thing I've noticed is gratitude, which considering self-loathing is like the primary thing we do in the West, it's not a good solution. Um but part of the big sell I do to the unconscious about the thing is highlighting how hard it works with whatever the problematic thing is. Like it works really hard to do that for a purpose, but it has to do quite a big job to either put chronic pain there to put anxiety there all the time, or whatever the thing is, it's got to work really hard to do that. And the person's trying everything they can to ignore it. They're saying, shut up, go away, fuck off, leave me alone. All day, every day. While this part of their mind works really hard to keep them safe, to keep them alive by doing this uncomfortable job.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

Uh my signals are going off right now. Like it's going off. The thing that just came to me is uh I don't know if you looked at much of like love languages, like uh acts of service, touch, gift. I feel that that's one way you mentioned the gratitude, so that could be words of affirmation, quality time, spending time with your unconscious. I feel that that's an offering that they would love, just spend some time with it. Yeah. Uh the touch is like havening or tapping.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

Yeah. Um, but the cell I I have with them is well, if you experiment with this thing I'm I'm I'm saying to do, um, I I feel like your person is gonna thank you for this every day. Uh so if you're getting thank yous for this, I want you to take that as a signal to keep going. But it's like I just highlight you, you're working really hard, you're hated for it. We'll give you an easier task, you'll be lovely for it. And I'll highlight the client afterwards, after the session, which I know the unconscious is still listening. Uh, so it's a little bit of a an extra directive for the unconscious. Uh, but it's like you've you've seen and experienced for years now how hard this part of your mind that you've just been getting signals off for the past hour while I've been talking to it, uh, has worked to keep you safe. Uh as safe as above happiness. Uh even if it has to make you unhappy, even if you've told it to fuck off every day, it's still come back and done its job. Imagine how hard it's gonna work with you, right? Emphasize the width, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

With like a collaboration, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

Saying thank you. Um, and I always begin all of my sessions like before I begin the hypnotic bit, is their job is to do nothing in that bit so that I can get the signals. And at the end, I'm saying, man, you've got a really important job to do, and show gratitude that I do that spear. Um on uh on your different love languages thing, yeah. Uh that is just a it's it's not like scientifically backed thing, it's something like a preacher come up with. Um but I I buy into a lot, like yeah, it's it's a belief I I follow, uh, but I think they shift with people at different times. Like more often than not, I've noticed with people the one that they highlight is the one they're not getting.

unknown 55:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:01

Some other one will become the one they highlight. Uh, and it's just habitual sort of stuff. Uh, but yeah, um Roland Ramsey, you've had on the podcast before, uh, he's talked to me at length about the quality timeline with the unconscious. So he has a thing where he sits with his unconscious sometimes for like an hour at the end of the day playing a game, trying to get it to tell him everything he's experienced in that day. Like to insane little details. Uh, and it's a game he plays with his unconscious, and he tells me how much his unconscious loves it. But like we'll bring more and more data to the table because it wants to show off to him. Yeah, it wants to show up. And yeah, it's funny about it. Gets excited about the showing off. And so that's a very clear example of yeah, you call it time um bit as he's engaging in time that's what it's he clued me into the uh the Huna practice.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

I know a lot of people will dispute you know the legitimacy of it being Hawaiian or not. Nonetheless, it's great, like the openopo, and the whole concess of saying it to yourself, to your unconscious of I'm somebody, whatever it is, for holding on to the limiting belief. I'm somebody for talking shit, I'm somebody for whatever. I'm somebody for not listening, and then please forgive me. And then what's that next step is what you're talking about. Thank you. That gratitude, thank you. Thank you. And then the final step is I love you. I think that's the formula for miracles.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

This is a little in those four little quick phrases, right? I've seen some amazing stuff happen with them. I've experienced some amazing stuff happen with them.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

And Lance, before I I go get my hair cut, I got enough point. I'm just wondering, because uh recently you've lost very near friend and you your name, you know. So there's I just want to spend a couple minutes on grief. Like because a lot of people that I reach out to and my my clients, my world, they might come to me for anxiety, they might come for me for pain, and yet the thing that comes up sometimes a lot is grief that's holding them back.

SPEAKER_02 58:37

Well, grief again, that's a signal. Um and I was thinking about this a lot lately, obviously. Um for a long time I felt with just the the signal overall was this was something important, and and it's not here now. Life is fragile. So I felt for a long time grief's core message was are you are you acknowledging what is precious in your life and and treating it as such? Uh so grief being that forced mindfulness of like what is precious in your life now. Uh what are you gonna regret that you didn't treat as precious tomorrow if it's not there tomorrow? So what can you do today? I still believe a lot of that, but um I thought about all the different things I've grieved over the years, and they've all had an extra message with that as well of something different that's unique to that personal thing, because not all like grief is about the loss of a loved one. Um I'd never thought about that before. Like for a long time, grief was just a word linked with death. Um but Gordon, my friend who'd passed last month, um got really hurt by COVID. Uh and a line that he said back then stuck with me, and I've prepared it to a bunch of clients uh of grief as the loss of the imagined future. He was grieving an imagined future uh of what life would have been like on the road and being free and not being like trapped by the Australian government. Um so that made me look for well, where do we have grief in other things? So like we have grief when we end a relationship, we have grief when we change jobs, we have grief when we move towns, we have grief with all sorts of different things. Um and so I feel like Gordon's idea there is a big bit of it as well. You've lost an imagined future. It covers all of them. Like when a human passes, you've imagined all these different things you can do with them and they're gone. Uh so yeah, I think while grief's there, it's to listen to go what's what's it trying to make me notice about this relationship, this thing, this person, this whatever it is that's gone. Uh what was special about it? What was it? Like some people the grief is they didn't get to tell the person to fuck off. Uh for a lot of people the grief has been weird that their abuser has died and they now have this grief because they've got to reconcile. That there was good moments with this person. There was like they were human, they weren't just a complete monster. Uh and part of their consciousness is grieving that. Uh while part of them is foot firm to the ground going, no, this person was was a monster. But there's this cognitive dissonance of well, that's not the only thing this person was. Uh that's really confronting. Uh people to to deal with because they feel dirty feeling grief about a monster. Um But that that was part of this whole like trying to say, well, it wasn't all that. Like you can hate the things this person did. Um but there'd be reasons behind that. Um there'd be the other things involved. That might have a slight positive edge. Um and uh I also think a big bit of that sort of thing. And I'm I'm not in that at the moment, so I can't say exactly, but um is what story are you listening to? Like Grief for most people it's really easy to get stuck on hurtful stories within it. And so I think a big bit of what the higher part of our consciousness always wants us to do is to pick the nicest story. Like human life is nothing but story. But all narrative. Anything important has narrative and all narrative is important. It's just life. We're nothing but stories. So what can we do about those stories? Are you telling yourself the right one? Telling yourself the wrong one? Uh if it's a story that's pointing you towards more crap, what's the message of the story? Looking for the signal within the story. Essentially. So I wanna wanna take these moments and not I don't want this to sound like toxic positivity because it's not. Um but I wanna I wanna make it more positive. So like a big bit of what I do to deal with grief is I will do stuff with that person on either the the day they died or their birthday or both or on some other special day for them. So one of my mates died 12 years ago. I've gotten drunk on that day 12 times. Uh I I sit down, I pour a drink for him, I pour a drink for me. We're all drinking buddies, so that's why I drink this one. So I'm not I'm not gonna get blind drunk with my nan every every year, but um, I probably have fish and chips with her, or a cupper and and and a cake and stuff like that. Uh, but for this guy, I drink. We used to drink rum, or a glass of rum for him, glass of rum for me, and I talk shit. Talk shit to the a. Uh tell him what's been going on in my life. Uh um I'll tell enjoyable stories about things we did. Uh, I'll tell enjoyable stories about people that he knows of what things they've been doing. Uh and have a drink like like he was there with me. And I keep briefing my glass, I don't keep briefing his. The end of the night, I tip his out, uh, I go to bed. Uh, but I'm not using that to to wallow of the loss I have that I don't have as a friend. I use that as this thing of connecting with I knew this beautiful person who I loved. Uh and I'll treat that connection like like they're still there.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

Uh right, because the love doesn't die. The love is real, the love is still present. And I love that you're getting drunk with this person, you're gonna have fits and chips with your nan. You're gonna have these, you know, all these different people. I love that so much. Yeah, I gotta go get this mop cut. Lance, I I truly appreciate you. You know, you're you're a beautiful human being.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:03

Thank you. Appreciate you too. Love all the stuff you put out. Nowhere near anywhere having listened to all of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

I mean either, you know. Like, like I'm always surprised. Like, I just put out the one with James yesterday, and he's like, Yeah, you know, looking back on it, and you know, it's like I I don't think I've ever listened to my own podcast. Like, anyhow, so thank you so much. I appreciate you, Lance. Thank you.