Chris Jones: Hypnotizing Howie, Bombing w/ Bublé, & Why the Psych Ward Was a Plot Twist Worth Having

In this episode of AWAKEN, Ryan sits down with Christopher Jones — Chicago's own, the only hypnotist ever to appear on America's Got Talent, whose clip hypnotizing Howie Mandel has over 22 million views, star of the Double Take series on Facebook Watch where he conspired with John Cena, Pamela Anderson, NeNe Leakes, and Steve-O to give unsuspecting superfans the surprise of a lifetime through hypnosis, and proud new father of a five-month-old who makes several unscheduled appearances throughout the recording.

Chris came up from the South Side of Chicago, studied Sociology and Psychology in college, calling himself a "social engineer with deviant motives," was voted most likely to become a priest in his all-boys Catholic high school, went to college and promptly revised that plan upon discovering the gender ratio, got a master's in Therapeutic Recreation, watched a hypnotist on campus one night, chased him through the parking lot, got a book recommendation he had to scrape $60 together to buy, and never looked back. His mentor Fred Winters opened the floodgates. Then he drove 600 miles in a brand-new Prius with 17 miles on it to watch Salish perform in Southern Illinois, introduced himself while the man was eating pizza, and eventually made him the honorary uncle of both his daughters. 

The Howie Mandel story gets a full breakdown here, and it is more interesting than the clip suggests. The suggestion wasn't some general command to shake hands — Chris built it entirely around Howie's specific comfort condition. Howie shakes hands when everyone is wearing gloves. So Chris framed it that way, and when Heidi Klum started screeching in Howie's face, it didn't matter. Howie still thought everyone was wearing gloves. The frame held. Heidi's volume was irrelevant. Howard Stern apologized to Chris afterward. Chris's voice cracked audibly when it worked, and he still sounds slightly amazed recounting it.

Then there was Michael Bublé, who did not cooperate. Then there was the green room immediately after, where Chris swore into a chain-link fence while a show psychologist stood nearby with a clipboard. Then there was the bar afterward, where he sat between a Britney Spears lookalike and an Oprah lookalike, pretty drunk, eliminated from a national talent competition, thinking: I don't understand my life. Then there was Lawrence Fishburne saying "nice job, young man" in the green room on a different TV appearance, and Chris being so embarrassed by a bad set that he said God bless you and walked directly out the door next to a Rolls Royce.

The conversation goes everywhere it wants to go. They talk about why framing a suggestion around someone's specific psychology is the whole game, in stage work and in clinical work alike — Chris is currently helping a smoking cessation client and describes his intake process in detail: listen, listen more, ask what you're not telling me, wait, then politely destroy every excuse still standing. They talk about the ethics of combining mentalism and hypnosis and where the line is between theater and manipulation. They talk about diversity in the hypnosis world and a people of color panel at HypnoThoughts where everyone disagreed with each other immediately, which Chris points out is entirely human and probably inevitable. They talk about Larry Garrett, who hypnotized Saddam Hussein's son's limp away before September 11th happened and then had a very interesting conversation with the CIA afterward. They talk about why the best magicians in history have disproportionately been Jewish, which spirals into Exodus and Moses and snake-eating snakes.

Chris also shares that his wife told him he couldn't marry her until he had a therapist. He got one. He now tells people he will encourage his daughters, if they ever marry a man, to make sure he has a therapist too. He said it without drama and clearly means it.

And then he closes with the thing that actually lit him up: get a passport. He went to Honduras as a chubby sixth-grader with a 36-inch waist, walked everywhere, ate rice and orange juice and cheese, came home with an eight-pack, and realized for the first time that he had muscles. He has been going back to the world ever since.

Three quotes from Chris worth writing down:

"I framed it around his comfort level. If she's screaming in his face, it doesn't matter — because he still thinks everyone's wearing gloves."

"I'm gonna teach you how to hypnotize yourself. I'm gonna teach you how to get out of your own way. Look at the finish line. The hurdle's gonna be there — you just step over it."

"Wherever you go, people are people. If God's giving you suffering, say thank you for the suffering. I'm sure I'm gonna learn a lot more from it than from pleasure."

Connect with Chris Jones: Website: chrisjoneshypnotist.com Facebook: facebook.com/chris.jones.114372 Chris performs his live show "Yes, And... Hypnosis" at the iO Theatre in Chicago, combining improv games with real audience hypnosis, and is a regular at Zanies Comedy Club. He's also available for corporate events, college campuses, and private events nationwide — booking form on his website For therapeutic work (smoking cessation and more): reach out through his website or social channels — he works on a donation basis 

Connect with Ryan DeJonghe / TranceWell: Website: trancewell.help Email: ryan@trancewell.help

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello, friends, family. Thank you so much for coming in here today. I really sincerely appreciate you. It's like every time I talk into you, the listener, viewer, I get goosebumps. So it's just amazing to have you tune in. I sincerely appreciate you and wish you the best in life. And today we have an extraordinary guest. Welcome, Christopher Jones.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Thank you for hanging out with me. I appreciate it. You have 95% of my attention. And for people watching, every now and then you're going to hear a baby sound because I have a four-month-old, five-month-old daughter. Yeah. And that's it. I'm completely here, but I'm also just looking off at a tiny little person.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

That is funny because uh you just gave we'll work backwards here. You just had a TEDx talk not too long ago. Oh, there's the baby. Here's the baby coming in the shot. For those that are you'll get the baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

You'll get some baby.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

We've had cats on here, we've had a dog in the background. Now we today we have babies.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

The TEDx was in September that we finally got to film that in Chicago, like end of September, and it didn't drop until months later. Yeah, it's that's weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Do they let you know when it's gonna drop so you can start promoting it? Or they just drop it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

They were pretty cool about that, and they were great in that they helped us, they coached us. Like I literally got to rehearse that for fellow TED talkers for the weekend, and they gave us feedback, and the coaches gave us feedback, and then we got to go on the stage and practice it. And anyone out there who wants to do a TED Talk, one of the rules is you have to stay in the red circle.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Oh, you have to stay in the red circle.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

I am friends with mentalists and performers, and they have all these ideas hypnotizing people. I go, cool, two things you need to know. Now they only have six-minute TED talks, have to stay in the circle. That's like the rule.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Oh, there it used to be 10.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

14.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now they're down to six.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah, there's just so many people that want to do it, and you know, there's we're losing our attention span. Do you really have to talk for 14 minutes? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Now, the way you the one of the things you talked about that was the America's Got Talent. Yeah, that was cool. Like you got Howie Mandel to shake your hand. So let's go even further back. Well, maybe not. Let's talk about that experience. Like, did you know for a fact that that was going to work on stage in front of all those people?

SPEAKER_00 2:53

No. No. No. And I'll tell you anything because there are no secrets. We're in we're initiated. We understand the hypnosis works. For all the people who are like, it's not real, it's fake. And like my my thing with how it was fake. I every now and then I comment, like, explain.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

How? Right. Well, you can clearly see him put a glove on. Not true. And he shook hands with the other judges.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

The part that shocked me was when Heidi was yelling, screeching at him. I was like, that's surely going to snap him out of it. And he was still just, you could see his eyes were glazed over. He was just shaking her hand, and she was like, screeching. How do you think that he was in it?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Because the secret is, I just knew about in this case, I'm not calling him a client, but the client. I knew I made that routine kind of the day before. Like the arm thing I had been using for years, but it's funny you said screeching, now my voice is gone. But the suggestion was based on the knowledge that he would shake hands if he was wearing gloves. So I never really said it in this way, but if she's screaming in his face, it doesn't matter because he still thinks everyone's wearing gloves. Right. I framed it around his comfort level.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Now, oh, you were it looks like you're still thinking. Like, I am, oh, you're still aware.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Like I'm working with someone right now who wants to quit smoking, and you know, the first session, I listen and listen and listen, and I ask more questions. And then I listen some more and I ask some more questions. And then I go, okay. Is there anything else I should know? And then I wait, and then I go, okay. What's the thing you're not telling me? And then after all that being heard and felt, and I'm taking notes, I read it back and say, Did I get anything wrong? Did I miss anything? And then I politely destroy their excuses for being a smoker still. They go, I smoke because I get stressed at work. Oh, I heard you when you said quote, if I didn't have to go to work, like on the weekends, I'll smoke two packs in the entire day. But if it's the weekend, you're not stressed. Oh, I guess you're right. Maybe you're smoking because you're bored. And so again, with the Howie thing, you know, I talked to a couple producers and I said, just so we know, like, I can touch like his clothing. Like, yeah, yeah. No, he's normal when he's wearing gloves. Right. What? And then the light bulb went off. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I framed it around. I'm wearing gloves and you'll shake my hand. And like you hear my voice crack. Like he will shake my hand and he does it. And I'm like, yes, it worked. And he went back to his seat, and Howard Stern apologized. And it was like, now you're cooking. And then Heidi was like, could you do something to make it permanent? And at that point, I've been on stage for like 20 minutes. And the the nerves were all off. I also had five years performing under my belt. That was 2015. And I started professionally in 2011. Like I, you know, I made a couple videos to send to agents, and they said, You're you're good. It looks like you're good. And if you are good, we'll keep you getting more shows. And if you're not good, you're fired. I said, That's that's all I need. And I'll give you you and the listeners some gems here. Have you worked with an agent before for your shows? Not for hypnosis, for comedy, yes. Okay. So my agent never met me until like a year and a half. But again, sent him the video and they were big in the college market. And he booked me shows because at the time he was booking me at $1,500 a show. Not a lot of money. It is, you know, grand scheme of things, but not a lot of money. Pause. Come here, baby.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

All right, sorry. Alright, so you're getting these 1,500 contracts for doing these shows, and then you sent videos in to an agent you haven't met.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Yeah. Uh agent talks on the telephone. He gives me like a 45-minute conversation of here are the rules. And he made it very clear. Um, we basically have three rules. Do the best show you can. If you're gonna be late, let the age the the performers know. Email us after every show, let us know how it went. Um don't be intimate with people who are hiring you. And what else? Oh, pay the agencies. Because at the time I'd get the check and then I would cut them off 20%. And I was like, Yeah, all those sound great. They sound great. And I had a job at university, and within I don't know, two, three weeks that first phone call, they they got me seven shows lined up, and I was literally like, I can't keep the job at the university because it was kind of a mentoring job, and I'm distracted. I told like uh someone I I worked for like on a one-on-one. I'm like, hey, look, I just need to know what's happening in my life right now. Yeah, I get a chance to perform and travel, I really want this, and I need to listen to you, but I think I have to just say this, and now I've said it. Now let's take a walk outside and leave face. Yeah, because you deserve my attention. And I think saying this out loud, I have to quit this job. And I did. I gave him a month notice and I packed all my stuff into my the car I bought, brand new priest of the time, like 17 miles on it, bought it, moved all my stuff 300 miles north to Chicago to my dad's house. He's like, What's what's all this stuff? And I go, I quit my job at the university, I'm gonna be a traveling hypnotist, and he shit a brick. Yes, and I was like, No, dad, it's gonna work. And he's like, Why did you go to college? Why did you get a master's degree? Why did you to be? I was like, it's gonna work out, and uh he is a self-employed photographer, so he introduced me to the term feast and famine. Like you will have the money, tax season comes and then you don't. Right? You're gonna go to bed negative $200, you wake up and there's five grand in the account. Feast and famine. So somewhere you asked me a question, I gave you a lot.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Well, and I a couple questions popped up in all of that, too. What you say you got your master's, what was the master's in?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

I have a master's in recreation, outdoor parks playing uh from Southern Illinois Carbondale, two-year program. I got to do magic tricks for kids in hospitals, libraries, um Salvation Army, all that stuff. So you were a minister, huh?

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Right, yeah, minister, yep, yep, minister, walked away from that. And then I was gonna be a priest. You were gonna be a priest.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

I was gonna be a Catholic. Yeah, yeah. I was raised Catholic mom, Christian, dad. And um in my all-boy high school by choice, I was voted most likely to be a priest after high school.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Interesting. And then so what steered you away from that path?

SPEAKER_00 11:00

College girls.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Yeah, they are tricky, they are tricky, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Especially if you're coming from a boy's school and then like, oh my gosh, there's my school is 70% female. Oh my goodness. Lord, just be friends. Where did your switch come?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Mine was when I was getting in trouble for serving homeless people. That's when my mind got blown. I was like, I'm seeing some miraculous stuff here, and yet somehow I'm getting in trouble for doing things that Jesus did.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

I was I was gonna say, you're helping homeless people is not Christ-like at all.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

And then so I we talk about these similarities. I went into this depression and literally prayed for God to kill me. Yep. And then God heard you. Yeah. Yeah. And then a lot of what your TED talk was about, uh similar situation in COVID for me is I went to a psych ward and it's it's you learn a lot there. You learn a lot. Are you mostly the glasses half full kind of guy? I am right these days. I'm uh thankful for anything in the glass at all type of guy.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

I get that.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Like I wake up each morning, and I've done this probably a week and a half now, and the first thing I do is I find 10 things to be thankful for. That's awesome. And usually I start with what irritated me the day before.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Oh, okay. Yes, I I hear you. I hear you. I'm still I'm listening.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Yeah. So that's the thing. Like maybe someone challenged a belief. Maybe someone, you know, irritations come in all kinds of ways, cut off in traffic or debated me on Facebook, whatever it is. Maybe it's a fight with my wife.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Maybe it's my stepson.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

I listen to a lot of podcasts, and I I was literally listening to one today, I can't recall it, but the idea of one. Oh, it was flea from red eye to the peppers. Oh, yeah. Yeah. When he's talking about having uh just a bad time in his life and like a hurt, he just says, Thank you, God, for this, because I have this hurt right now. Give me more pain, give me more pain, because it will help me empathize with other people. If you give me this pain right now, when someone else is experiencing it, I'll have compassion. Which is a hard thing to ask.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

It is a hard thing to ask, yeah. I like I don't know if you're into like Ram Das at all. Uh he's he was a teacher, he started out as Richard Alpert, and he was a psychology professor up at Harvard. And he made serious bank. He had a yacht, a nice house by the water, like teaching other people how to teach psychology. So he should have all the answers to find. Exactly. You're shaking your head for those that are listening, and then he's like, it's just not working. And then he discovers LSD. Yeah. And then he goes down that path, and then he goes to India and meets up with his guru and then cut walks away with the name Ram Das. And he has all these great teachings. And one of them, and this is what brought me up here, is like the Hindus, they take emotions and they just instead of saying, I am angry, they say, I have anger. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

And then you're like, oh, okay. So I have it. What do I do with it? And it's almost like when you use gratitude, you're doing an alchemy.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

You're like, thank you for this anger or thank you for this grief or whatever it is. And the baby's like, in it. The baby's about to preach, I think. I think that's what it is. Like the baby has a message for sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

The baby does have a message. Yeah. You have a stepson, Yusuf?

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Yeah, two stepkids now in this marriage, and then two biological kids.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Very cool. How long you've been married?

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Well, I just got married May May 2nd.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Okay. Whoa. Like you all right. So we're at 12 days? We're at yeah, man. You're good at math. Like that's awesome. Yeah. Only even numbers.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

So half a savant.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Yeah. And it's interesting about babies too, because I had a healer on the on this podcast, and she's an energy healer. She went in to help this man uh who couldn't move his legs. He was in a hospital and his legs were paralyzed. And she went in to see if some energy work can help. And in the room was a baby. I think it was the guy's granddaughter or something. And the this energy healer that I had on the podcast said she felt the baby just being a baby, you know? And working with the guy. There's something magical about people that are nearing the end of life, and when they meet people at the beginning of life. Yeah, I can imagine. And then the baby, eventually the guy started moving his legs. Whoa. Yeah. It's just it's amazing. And I believe this is my latest theory with the hypnosis, is that and just and Christ talks about this too about becoming like a child, believing in Santa Claus again. Because Santa is real. Like I feel like we were born to walk on water, and somewhere along the way, someone says we can't.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

You're you're uh I will hold on to that and accept a lot of that. Literally, this child. We I love going swimming because I almost drowned twice. Uh so I take my daughter swimming as much as I can. We did family swim, wife, older daughter, this daughter, me, and Stacy, my wife, goes away with our older one. And I'm looking at this kid, I'm like, I think I can do it. And I've seen the videos of people just dropping babies.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Yeah, they just chuck them in the water, and then the baby's like swimming like nirvana cover.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

And you know, the post is clear. My wife's not watching, and I let this girl go. And do you know what happens? She swims yeah, she just kicks her way up, she holds on her back, she keeps her head above so she can breathe, and she does this epic cry because she thinks something's wrong, but I hold her and she's then calm. The only thing I'll push back, and I I you know we're just talking. I don't think you have this concrete thesis. We forget that we can do things because it holds on to us for fear, right? Right. Uh they're trying to protect us, and sometimes it's hard to tell your parent, I can do this. Right, I don't need you to be two feet away. Like we're taking the training wheels off my older daughter's bike, and she's like, Let me go. I'm like, if I let you go, you'll fall right now. But if I don't help you at the beginning, you will probably do it faster. Like I am hindering you.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Yeah. That's interesting. And it reminds me of the study where they took four groups of people to build a tower out of macaroni noodles, I think string and something else. One group was a bunch of kindergarten kids, the other group was business school, the other group CEOs, and the other group was lawyers. And of course, who builds the biggest tower out of all those people? The kindergartners.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

And they attribute it because it's the lack of fear of failure.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

That's cool. Yeah. If it tumbles, it tumbles.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Like you said with your dad, like there could be a lot of fear, like saying goodbye to this nice job at the university and getting this job that could be feast or famine.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Yeah. But I was so not afraid of failing. So not afraid.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

I mean, you went in front of the world to try to get Howie Mandel to shake your hand, which she doesn't do, and you just went in there.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

And it worked.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

It did, it did work. Yeah, it worked the first time for sure. The second time I tried to hypnotize Michael Oblai.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Yeah, that that was that was that was rough. I read that on your face. You're like, dude, man, and you can see all the comments on YouTube. They're like, come on, man.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yeah. Uh I didn't take it well immediately at all. And to America's Got Talent credit, they have psychologists there. And when I was done swearing in a room by myself and yelling, literally swearing and yelling and holding onto a chain fence and like just cursing out with the other contestants waiting. And the psychologist who's like, hey, I'm here. How are you feeling? Checklist of things says, All right, if you want to talk, I'm right there. I I got to hang out. But when I lost, I lost some really good performers. And we all got voted off together, and then we went to the bar together. And I was with uh a group that was a look-alike group. So there was Mariah Carey, Oprah Winfrey, a Katie Perry, a Britney Spears. And so we're all depressed at the bar. And I'm sitting next to Brittany Spears on one side, and Katie and Oprah, I'm like, did I die? Like, yeah, I'm pretty drunk right now.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

But this is what you want in your hypnosis shows.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

You want people to see these like you can't understand how insane my life is. Like I'm drinking with Katy Perry and British Spears after losing a Oprah, yeah. Yeah, after losing a talent show.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

Yeah. So now the stage, what got what got you into that? Did you have an interest in hypnosis or did you want to just be an entertainer?

SPEAKER_00 22:08

I was a failed magician. And bombing America's Got Talent was not fun at the time, but before that, I bombed the School of Talent show. And they still remember that. Like my friends remind me about that. And it roast me. And it's horrible and wonderful at the same time. I bombed the School of Talent Show in front of, you know, I could probably the same amount of people as America's Got Talent. Because that venue might hold 400 people, maybe, maybe 450 most. But when Nick Cannon's like, hey, if you don't want to get hypnotized, leave. About 60 to 100 people left.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah, I saw a lot.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

I was like, oh crap, that's my show. Like, I need volunteers. You know, the second round didn't go very good because very well, because I didn't have more plan B's and plan C's. I was hoping to get Buble. And they told me uh Mel B the Spice Girl did not want to get hypnotized. Right. She was pretty adamant. Yeah. She's she's out. So I did something with the audience, but they weren't on stage, so they cut in. That's why the wardrobe change happens. Like I'm wearing blazer and then I'm wearing a t-shirt. Um, but still open doors. I I I bombed on Pen and Teller Fooless, not bombed, but I went on Pen and Teller Fooless. I tried to make Teller talk.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Do hypnosis?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah, he doesn't do that.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

And when you're on Penanteller Fooless, you have to perform for the judges and their writers, and you have to tell them how you do it and do it the exact same way. And so I was like, Teller's not here, but give me one of your producers. And I got a producer and a camera guy, and I made a dude forget his name. And then they're like, All right, so tell us a secret. And I go, it just doesn't work for everybody. Like it doesn't work for everybody. Right. Then they were talking to the producer, like, why didn't you say your name? He's like, I I couldn't. No, but real. And they're like contemplating, well, how do we how do we say if it works or not? I'm like, it's easy. If Teller talks, which he doesn't do, he can't. And I was like very clear, I am not trying to be a faith healer, guys. And they're like, We're not gonna talk to you. It's like, good. I just want to know, like, I could make someone do something they don't usually want to do. That's all. So it didn't work, but uh for Penn and Teller, they were like, Look, we don't know what you did with the audience, we don't know what that was, but you didn't fool us. But we did an episode on um on their other show, BS, with hypnotism. This is gonna be a slam dunk. We're gonna destroy hypnotists. And he's like, turns out a lot of validity that hypnosis is real. Like, so you didn't fool us, but we accept that hypnosis is real. And is that a good answer? I'm like, yeah, I'll take that pendulette. Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

And speaking of the people that didn't remember their names, I like that. I think it was a Chicago TV show that you were on. You had three people in the front of the audience. Yeah, they were gone. They were hours gone. Yeah, they were gone.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

It's so wonderful. Talking to you makes me remember all the times I bombed. That was a good one. The time before that wasn't so good. And they tried to make me do some funny stuff and like a roller coaster bit, and like I screamed down the roller coaster, and no one screamed, and it's dead, and just there's so hard to do without music, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Yeah, yeah, the music, there's something there.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

I was like, all right, goodbye. And I go into the green room after my segment on TV, and Lawrence Fishbourne is there. Oh, and he's like, nice job.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Does he have two pills for you?

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Uh he's like, nice job, young man. I'm like, oh, thank you. And I recognize him, and I'm just thinking, Matrix, like, boys in the hood. Oh, oh, John Wick. And I was like, God bless you, goodbye. Because I'm so embarrassed I didn't do well at all. I just open a door, I shut it, and there's like his Rolls Royce outside. I'm immediately outside. I'm like, wow, should have said something intelligent. But I'll see him again.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Such is life. It is now when you're talking about the bombing, because it reminds me of comedy, even my my first hypnosis show, that was major because we do the convincing her where they have their hands locked and they can't pull it apart. Yeah, and my first hypnosis show, everyone, 15 people up front. I was like, oh well, now I'm learning. So does it still happen to you? Like you're yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Uh, you know, people are like, Have you ever had a show where no one gets hypnotized? Yeah, I can remember three off the top of my head. Well, what was the situation? Um they I was competing with like steak dinner. Uh, this is a joke, but it's the truth. It was another one, 12 Orthodox Jews and one wife. She wanted to have like a 40th birthday party for him. And I'm like, look, guys, I could show you a magic trick, but if it doesn't work and you don't trust me, it's not gonna work. And so I tried first routine, forget your name. They all remember their name. I'm like, all right, I'll buy the first person in the bar a drink, but that's it. That's my wife is like, I've seen you, I've seen you on TV, and I saw you at the last house party. You were good. I'm like, yeah. It's like, what happened? Like, you had 12 dudes in a room, and you they're all thinking I'm gonna hypnotize them and make them say something embarrassing, and then you tell their wife.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

That's funny because you're talking about the the the Orthodox Jews. I did some street work and I did the one where you get the card stick, you get a card in their fingers, and they can't open their finger. You know, it's my business card, and it's like, you know, the more you try, the more your fingers will be stuck together. And then I would say that works about 90% of the time on the street, and except for this one, he was a rabbi, and he just looked at me and just drop. Kind of like what Bublet did for you. Like, it's like moving on now, moving on.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

And did you I hear you had a background in comedy. Did you ever do magic? Do you follow magic?

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Yeah, I that's how I set up the more mentalism than magic these days for the stage stuff. So I'll start with some mentalism stuff to warm them up and then go into the stage show. But yeah, I like I used to love magic as a kid. Like I've gone and saw David Copperfield live many times and just fascinating. I still am into the magic, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

There's no how do I say this? It's not an accident, some of the best magicians are Jewish. Think about that.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

I'm trying to wrap my hair out.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Think of the best magicians you can think of in the world. Houdini, Copperfield, David Blaine. David Blaine's Jewish? Yeah. That blew my mind. I don't know about Chris Angel, but Houdini, uh Copperfield, Blaine, and I believe in this country, you know, we had the whole like fear of witches. Right. So some Christians are like, oh, I don't I don't touch magic or hypnosis, that's voodoo. It's like, all right, fine.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

I mean, they the Christians didn't even like Harry Potter.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Or Dungeons and Dragons.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Great point. But uh in the Jewish faith, question everything. And if you read in the Torah or the Old Testament, of course there's magi. That's that's part of escaping slavery in in um the book of Exodus. You there are magicians, but God's magician, which was Noah, I'm sorry, Moses, was just more incredible. Right. That snake ate that snake.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Even in the book of Acts, you have uh Peter versus Simon, you know, Simon the the Medi. And he's like, and and in the Catholic, well, you know this in the Catholic version that this Simon's floating around in the clouds, and then Peter's like poking them down, making them fall and die. I did not know that.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Is that how he died?

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yeah, I just learned that this week because I'm I was a president minister. No, I did learn, here's the interesting thing, and I did learn from the wedding. So my wife knows some Spanish, and the word in Spanish for wife is the same as handcuff.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah, it's supposed to handcuff. And I was like, Stacy, is that? And she's like, No, it can't be. I'm like, I'm pretty sure it is. I just asked people.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Now, here's the question. You mentioned about the Jewish, a lot of magicians are Jewish. So you're from Chicago, South Side, right? Yeah. Okay, so that that has some street cred to it. How do you get into what I'll call? Because you said you're helping people, clients as well, with therapeutic work and you want to become a priest. So how do we reach and I say all this in the context of when I look at hypnosis conferences, it looks like a white picket fence. So how do we get past that?

SPEAKER_00 31:50

What a wonderful question. Thank you for asking that. Well, my mentor is Salish. Do you know Salish? No. Holy buckets.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

All right, I'll write it down.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Holy buckets. S-A-I-L-E-S-H. When I was in grad school, I think I heard about him for the first time. Because I went to college in Wisconsin Lacrosse and saw a hypnotist. Uh, and he called me on stage and I got hypnotized a little bit. I was going, but then the guy next to me, Adam Ludwig, his head hit my head over dropping. And I was like, one all the way down. I'm like, oh. So I should have been like, hey, can I get some more of that? But you know, I was half in it. I got to see it. That was Fred Winters. And then after that, I chased him in the car. I'm like, teach me how to do that. I got his email, he told me what books to read. And like one book was $60. And I'm like, I don't have $60. Could you let me borrow yours? He's like, no. You have to invest. So I bought the books and I followed up. And then he's like, Yeah, sure. Now that you've invested, the floodgates were open. He was like, Read more books, read this book. I'm going on the road. I got to carry his bags, watch how he did the show, and I got to watch show after show after show after show. And he told me the money side and like show notes, which are so important. People out there, if you're gonna try and be funny with it or entertaining after every show, take notes. What went well, what didn't go well, where did you park? Where did you eat you wear? Pump these shoes. If you're on stage in uncomfortable shoes, you're not gonna be as good as you could be. But then I saw Salish and his special in Iceland. And Salish, kind of like me, is kind of racially ambiguous. This big bald guy is doing a special in Iceland, and he looked like a god, and he is the reason I bought that brand new Prius. Happened to see him when I was in southern Illinois. But they said for me to rent a car at 22 years old would have been like $500. And I was literally at the car rental place, and I was like, okay, who's gonna drive me to buy a brand new car now? So I went to the car dealer, said, Hey, be nice to me, which he wasn't. I have a hang up with car dealers, and uh I bought the car, drove it 600 miles. I saw Salish eating a pizza. I said, Hey, you're the hypnotist? He's like, Yes. I'm like, I just drove 600 miles to come see you, and he's like, excellent. When I'm done eating, I'll talk to you. And uh yeah, he told me what books to read. He's like, borrow this, he gave me a DVD of his special. Um, and now he's uncle to my daughters. Oh, that's awesome! Yeah, having said everything, if you see Salish in Iceland, it it is a sexual show. Hmm. He has them humping chairs, oh okay, orgasms and things like that, right? Right. Uh, you know, Iceland, Europe's a little different than the states. We're a little uptight here, but he said he's he's he's been there like 12 times. They just love his show, and they're lined up around the block. He's an Indian dude, yeah, Fiji and Canada. They haven't seen a guy with brown skin like that, right, right. Uh, he had to hire security to keep people from knocking on his door because they found out what hell was. So great power, great responsibility.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Yeah. And it goes back to the question then about how do we this is what I'm thinking. I'm I'm thinking it's oh, we got another kid.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Hello, what happened to your show? We're watching Mulan.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Yeah, so the the question here is how do we get more people of color variety into this therapeutic element? Like the entertaining I feel is a little bit more diverse, it's still pretty white, yet the therapeutic element of hypnosis is very, very, very white.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yeah. I've met a couple African Americans who do hypnosis in the therapy sense. Because uh you're talking about hypnothoughts in one of your episodes. Hypnothoughts? Hypnothoughts live? Yeah, they were gracious enough to give us uh a people of color panel to be a part of that, and like we we put in a couple meetings ahead of time, and the crazy thing, like in our Zooms meeting before hypnothoughts, yeah, we couldn't agree on things. Interesting. A niche in a niche, you're talking about hypnosis in the 4P sense, people of color, and we still have huge disagreements.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

It's it you that's funny you say that because going back to the Ram Doss thing, he talks about these ashrams where these monks congregate. He said that is sometimes the most political and cutthroat arena. It's like because we're human.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

We are human, and if you are like, hey, I meditate on this thing five hours a day, I know what I'm talking about, right? Good. Because when I meditate, I'm completely enlightened.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Exactly. And I meditated 10 hours a day. Yeah. My robe is more pure than your robe.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

You have some cat hair on your robe. And then you what did you say? The magician Simon gets his cloud busted by his apostle brother.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Do you know? Um, there's Steve Tauman. He's one of the hypnotists I watched when I was in grad school. He's in Vermont, I think. He's a chiropractor-turned hypnotist and full circle real estate agent. Because you can't be a hypnotist, you gotta have real estate.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Well, yeah, like me being uh a life insurance agent. It's a good it's a good cross skill.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

I get it. Yeah, you gotta talk and listen to people. I have a I had an improviser try and sell me insurance. God bless her. She uh she just kept talking, though. That's the thing, yeah. I gotta get on the phone, and she's telling me all these. I'm like, you could have had the sale 90 minutes ago. Like, I need to get off the phone. But what was Steve's name? The one up in Vermont, chiropractor, turned hypnotist, wrote a great book called Unhypnotize Yourself. The second book called Buddha in the Trenches. Oh. But he does very skillful mentalism and hypnosis. And his first book, Unhypnotize Yourself, full of just coincidences that are just too incredible to be a coincidence. Like he's somewhere on vacation, meets a guy from basically the same town, also a chiropractor.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

And when two chiropractors meet, they have this awkward thing where they're like, you don't want to give me an adjustment? I'll give you an adjustment.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Right. Yeah. So what's next for you, Christopher?

SPEAKER_00 39:41

I want uh to potty train a kid. I want another one to ride a bike without training wheels. I've been letting go of the ego because when I started, I be an amazing hypnotist. I wanted people to be like, I didn't believe it, and now I believe it. You were incredible. Uh, I wanted, I've seen other hypnotists, but you were better, and I enjoyed those things. America's got talent came around, lost my mom, met my wife, got to go to hypnosis conferences where my mind gets blown. I get to meet Larry Garrett, who has a center in Chicago. You know about Larry Garrett? No. Holy buckets. What's with Larry Garrett? This guy, Larry Garrett, he's a hypnotist. He gets a phone call, and they're like, hey, we're in um Iraq. Would you come to Iraq and and help this person? Businessman. Now, this is before September 11th. And and you know, businessman who's walking with a limp. Sure. Family says, Don't go. Like, US and Iraq are not good. He's like, No, no, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna be fine. Goes, shows up, and they're like, This businessman, Saddam Hussein's son. That uh limp assassination attempt. No, but his legs still walking a little funny. He can't become a leader if he's walking a little funny.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Hypnotize him. So he's there, meets him. His English is good. Hypnotize him. Very nice. Thank you, Mr. Larry. Bodyguard says he wants to go deeper next time. Does it a second time? Very good. Thank you, Mr. Larry. Bodyguard, he says he insists he goes deeper this time. You will meet him for a third time. Does it a third time, really lays it on thick, limp is gone. Holy cannoli, September 11th happens while he's there. And he's like, just so you know, country's gonna blame us for this. You were literally with me this whole time. We will we will get you a flight home, but there are no flights going to your country right now. Like it's a no-flight, we will get you back. But they treated him very well, showed him all these things that he couldn't understand. Some magic, some hypnosis, some like unexplainable. And uh he wrote a book called, I think it's hypnotize healing the devil is the title of it. But yes, he gets back, and the CIA is like, hey, so you were hanging out with me, huh?

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Right, yeah, let's talk about everything.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Yeah, fading. We're gonna give this a go. My darling.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

Yeah, so and then do you have any like you have some shows coming up? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

And this is uh I have shows and I'm trying to stay close to home, uh, but at the same time, probably being bipolar. I'm performing in Canada to see if I can get booked there. I also have all the wonderful I don't say baggage, but uh precautions of my teachers. So Salish uh tragically lost two, I think his niece and two nieces to a drunk driver and his brother-in-law. And Salish is like, I'm not gonna perform where there's a two-drink minimum. Not gonna do any show where they're pushing alcohol. So he's he's he's not doing comedy clubs that push alcohol. He was offered a spot in Vegas, and they're like, You're incredible, we're gonna give you a spot in Vegas. And one morning they're driving around, he goes, What are these people doing outside? And the person promoter said, Those are people who've gambled so much that they've lost their hotel room. Like they Have gambled so much. They don't have food, money, breakfast, whatever. Like they've done that all in one night. So he's like, I'm not gonna do a casino. So then your your options get limited a little bit more. Uh I once did a cigarette company, won't do another cigarette company. I have this crazy idea of going to Indonesia. There's no age limit for cigarettes in Indonesia. There are four-year-olds smoking cigarettes, smoking cigarettes in Indonesia. Wow. And the horrible part besides that is they're picking the tobacco. If you're aware of tobacco, nicotine can be absorbed through your skin. So they're gonna be out there when they should be in school, picking it with their fingers, getting nicotine poisoning, just picking the leaves without gloves on while they're getting cancer before they're 30. They're missing school because they can't smoke in school. So what am I gonna do? I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

Alright. And you are people can probably reach out to you. So you're seeing some people for stopping smoking.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Yeah, and it's by and large a donation. Uh it's so funny. My wife literally goes, don't let her sleep after six o'clock. The little gremlin. And my wife is FaceTiming Rhine right now. I got her. Hey, I got you on Tinder. I'm doing a podcast right now. People, you can have so much as this if you're just on Tinder. Put yourself out there, people. She is definitely awake and not asleep.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

My favorite story is how when you went to the psych ward, you've been dating her for a while, a week.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Yeah, it's a beautiful view, baby. I'll we're we're showering you with praises because you came to visit me in the psych ward, and we're like, that's my boyfriend wearing a hospital gown. That's right. I'm gonna let you go, my darling, but I'll see you tonight, okay? Alright. Love you a lot. Have fun.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Bye. I mean, that's pretty pretty remarkable for someone you met on Tinder to come see you. And usually when people hear that you've been in a psych ward, there's that stigma to it. And there she was a weekend, like this guy has something. Yeah. Um she saw the real you, the in the inner you. What would you say that is? Because you're a unique person, and I have some labels of what I see. I'm curious what you feel that the rest of the world sees in you. Because you mentioned before that Christ complex, you got all these compliments, and then that gets stripped down in the sideboard. The ego kind of melts away, and then you're just left bare naked. Yeah what's what's left inside of you, Chris, that that people see and like?

SPEAKER_00 47:29

I'll talk to anybody. You know, comedians can pick up on something wrong, and then they'll make it funny, and they can be mean, it can be playful, but like if your shoes are a little off and a comedian they won't notice and they'll do 20 minutes about your shoes. My mom didn't let me like insult people really. And so when I try to be funny, sometimes it works in the coincidence in the environment, but I will never I can't be a gross comedian, I can't at all. Right, right. So you know, I can make bad choices, but it's really hard for me to be deliberately mean.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

So yeah, I feel like it's a similar vibe inside at the heart of Christopher Jones is uh someone who genuinely loves people.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

I do. I do, but with being uh in therapy over Zoom, like my wife's like, you can't marry me until you have a therapist. And so we're getting closer and closer to planning the wedding. She's like, dude, like, I'm not kidding. You need a therapist. As a girl dad, I'm gonna encourage my daughters, like, you marry whoever you want. If you marry a man, he needs a therapist. Because statistically, if a god forbid a woman's gonna be killed, it's more likely than not by her husband. Being married, being a domestic relationship gets you um higher risk for domestic violence, just what it is. So with me talking to someone who doesn't have a nickel in the dime, talking to my therapist over Zoom, and it's fun because she's talking about I'm going to this conference for EDM, uh, you know, and I'm like, that's that's hypnosis. How is this? How is this a thing? Like literally, they have a wand. You don't have to do that, but you make breakthrough things. And I got to talk to people like you, and I heard that you're helping people who have vision issues, partial blindness, right? The functional blindness, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

So where their brains turn off the sight because of trauma. Some is TBI, the trauma ones is interesting. And there's there's other people too, like Bill Napple, who's a hospitalist in San Diego, and like one one woman, her her kid went off to the military, and just her brain caused it her not to see it again. And he worked with her one session and reframed everything, and she just started crying, and it's like the tears washed away the blindness. And it goes back to the full circle with the whole church thing. Like part of the reason I left the church was because I wasn't seeing the miracles that Jesus promised us. He says, You'll do these works in greater. And in the hypnosis community, I'm seeing some of that. Like I worked with a person that had fibromyalgia, pain, who couldn't walk for five minutes. And now she's six months later, I just did a follow-up, and now she's moving without a stick anymore. Like she's free. And so the yeah, we have a tool, we have a powerful tool that can really help people.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

I have a question about ethics. I'm gonna put a pin in that.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

But remind me, please, to talk about the ethics. Can you tell me about your onboarding and your meeting with people and then your six-month process, what that looks like?

SPEAKER_02 51:25

Some of my inspiration for that came from Scott Sandlin and how you in hypnosis and client work, you have these two schools, it seems like. One school is you've got to have a lead magnet, and you gotta have a funnel, and you gotta do this, and you gotta sell packages. And then Scott Sandlin said, you don't need a website, you don't need advertising, you just go and talk to people, go and talk to spas, go and talk to doctors, go and talk to dentists. And that's how he did it. And it was, and with pain in particular, the chronic pain. So after the person has been healed, the bone has been set, the suture has been gone away, and the person still feels pain, even though physically they shouldn't be feeling pain. And so he works with people, and so it's all about testing. So he onboards the client, teaches them techniques to help with their pain, and then has to do follow-up. That's the ethical going back to ethics, and we could talk about that in a moment, and just does uh follow-up the next day, and then I think it was a follow-up of three-week, and then up to with this was six months for him with the chronic pain, and it's similar with the lady. I was just curious like how much and we could do that. I don't think a lot of hypnotists do that with quitting smoking and or anything else that people come to us for. Like, how does it stick? And it's almost like yeah, just testing our work. And like you talked about the stage notes, it's very similar to that. It's write down what you did with them, the processes, was it over Zoom, was it in person, you know, you know, as much detail as you can and reflect on that.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

Yeah. Larry Garrett wrote a book called The Superior Hypnotist. He gave me a free copy of it. And when he did, he said, Chris, I'm not calling myself a superior. I'm not saying I'm the superior hypnotist. I'm saying when we imagine how good we could be, maybe we'll have these thoughts, these questions. And he said, I also want to make a book where you'll find things not in any other hypnosis book. And I called him, I was like, You nailed both those things. He's so aware of the needs of people and his clients. And if you say the name of Larry Garrett to any hypnotist, they're like, Oh, I love Larry. No one's like, Oh, I hate that guy. Right, right. Which is incredible because he made the book healing the enemy. Right. But that's what you do. You're like, I'm here to help people. And what would happen if I didn't heal my enemy? Imagine that. The enemy says I want the enemy says I need help. And you go, no, get out of here. You don't speak like I speak, you don't pray in the way I pray.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

You don't look like I look.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

You don't look like I I look. It boggles my mind. You know, I went to Ireland and they were talking about, you know, their conflict with the the the English. I don't know at what age I learned that white people don't like white people.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

I just thought, oh, white people got along. I really I you know, I was in high school, I saw my first homeless white person. I came home, I was like, Dad, white people are homeless? He's like, Yeah, I was like, how? How? You know, there's chemicals, and you know, not everyone's life is perfect. Huh?

SPEAKER_02 55:15

Now now you mentioned something about ethics. What were you gonna say? We put pin on it.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

There are people who do psychic surgery, if you're familiar with that, where they'll palm a piece of chicken flesh and they'll say they're removing a tumor from someone's stomach. And Hoffman took his cancer all the way to the Philippines to meet one of these people and then discovered, oh, that's just fake, it's chicken. It's it's just you they palm and say they remove the tumor, the fatty thing, and yeah, and they have a little cotton ball with blood. It's it's it's just trickery. But we know placebos make people better, right? As long as they don't know it's a placebo.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Well, here's the interesting thing. Uh, there's a new book that just came out. It's a complicated one. It's talking about the brain, it's an update model, clinical hypnosis. Forgive me for not knowing the exact title. But the point is, he mentioned some studies in there where they did a named placebo, where they told the person this is a sugar pill, and yet they still saw the results because it was part of it was the ritual. The white coat, the hospital, and the suggestion, this may make you better.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Yeah, that's cool. That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

It's a sugar pill, and yet this may still make you better.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

So the ethics is if the sugar pill has more colors, people are more likely to get better. If it's more expensive, they have more buying belief. But at what point is that not ethical to charge people, you know, a hundred dollars for something that should be two cents. And now here's my final problem. If I wanted to be a very, very good performer, I'd merge hypnosis with mentalism.

unknown 57:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

Try to make it as seamless as possible. Don't tell people what I'm doing, don't expect anything, do a little pre-show work, you know, have an assistant or two, pre-hypnotize someone, really Darren Brown it up and make it awesome.

SPEAKER_02 57:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

So then when people find out online that it's a little bit of trickery and technology, would they still want to come to me or my peers to lose weight, quit smoking, get over fears?

SPEAKER_02 57:59

Yeah, that's the tricky question. When you're combining like the ultimate, it's about being committed to the bit. Like if you're if that's the bit you want to do, be committed to that.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

Yeah. Fortunately, I'm not dabbling in those three worlds right now. It's like I'm gonna try to be funny for an hour, thank you, goodbye. And at the bar, yeah. If if you want to quit smoking, I'd love to help you.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

Right. Or how if you want to get over your germophobia, how we you know shoot your shot.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

You know that old Pearlman?

SPEAKER_02 58:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

We were on America's Got Talent Together. Oh, he was he was the same season? Yeah, we're season 10. So uh when he's on, I somehow I don't know, I got his oh, I think we went running together before that. Just out the blue. I just wrote him on Facebook. We went running together, and he's an incredible runner. And I so I got his number, and then when we're on it together, I knew I was out the round. So hey, oh, congrats on making to the final round. And he texts back, how did you know? And I said, You just told me.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

So I tricked him. Um it's funny, I think it's possible. See, because I know other magician mentalists, they don't do the hypnosis, they do magician and mentalism, and they tell stories and where it's the possibility of belief. They're like, they're not saying this is fake, and they're not saying this is real. They're like, it's up to you what you want to believe, and then they leave it in like Mesmer, it's possible you could get healed, or like Erickson. I don't know. Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Yeah. You know, William Mitchell? No, so he has his own conference, the I think it's the Heartland Hypnosis Conference, William Mitchell.

SPEAKER_02 59:59

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

He's a reverend and good man, does good work, brings people together. Um clients was like, Can you guarantee? You know, I'll get better, I'll this, that, and the other. He goes, I can't guarantee you'll find your car in the parking lot when you get out of here. They might lose a little bit of faith with that, but boy, is it honest.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:24

Don't promise me something you can't deliver.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

Right. And that's where I I my own falter is I see some of my peers charging what I consider a lot of money for sessions, like $2,000. I'm like, I don't know if I can be truthful with myself. Because I don't know. You know, like if I'm going to sell something, like when I sell insurance, I know I know the product I'm selling. With hypnosis, I'm like, I just delight in the possibility of being there when something cool happens. Because it's not me. I'm sure I can stay worded and I can just hold a space and create safety and create an environment, and yet something else is healing people. Something else is ca- You mentioned the cancer before. Like we see cancer going to spontaneous remission. I'm no oncologist. Yet I still see it. I can't guarantee it. I don't know if my results are any better than an oncologist. All I know is it's cool. I'm glad I get to play with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I it's it's kind of like Wizard of Oz. If you find out behind the curtain, I have no powers. But I tell you, I have no powers. I'm gonna teach you how to hypnotize yourself. Gonna teach you how to get out of your own way. I'm looking at the the the hurdle. And I want you to look at the finish line. The hurdle's gonna be there, you just step over it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:22

Something to think about.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:23

Yeah. Now what's your favorite mentalism bit?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:28

Oh, well, the one I do, the one I've seen done. Either way. For me the one it's Michael C. Anthony did this one with like it's always it's like a good story. Is like when the hero falls and then gets back up. So it's when I do a card trick and then they're like, I'm gonna predict your card, and I say it's gonna be half of whatever you pick. So if you pick the eight of diamonds, it's gonna be the four diamonds. And then yeah, so I tell them if it's the eight of diamonds, the one I predicted will be half of whatever they picked. So if they pick the eight, it'll be the four diamonds. If they pick the ten, it'll be the five. And then they pick the seven. And then they're like, ah, we got you. There's no way that you can half this. And then I turn it over, it's the three and a half. You know, it's like that to me is delightful. I love that. Because if you're too perfect, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:39

It's like Richard Osterlin has a lot of great gems. Are you familiar with his work?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

No, you're giving me a lot of good names tonight.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:51

Yeah, Richard Australin. He had easy to master mental miracles, it's like a three DVD set. Now, this was I discovered this when I was in college, this 2011.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:06

But the tricks are still great. I remember watching the DVD and being like, oh, this is a great trick. I can't wait to watch it again and again and again and out. And then he starts explaining it. I'm like, wait, what, what? Teach this.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:23

How is that going to be this?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

I love a good book test.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

Yeah. The book tests are so fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

They're like, whoa.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

Well, I want to do is cold reading.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

Like, yeah. Like, you can do that. Start with your wife. When you're out in public, say, you think that lady does this? And just start with the women because their reaction will be bigger than the men's. I had a publicist. I learned so much from her because she taught me about women and their nails and their hair and all these things. Just being around women, you're like, oh, you notice this. My wife has bangs. If there's a woman with bangs, compliment the bangs. Go straight to the heart. And you go, your bangs are on point. I want you to know that. And you go, you know, if a hat goes on, it stays on. They go, Yes, you understand. Yeah. Code reading is just observing and then not letting them know that you saw it. Like I saw a special of a mentalist, and he's at the uh at the airport or a train station. He's telling people where they're going. And I was like, this is stupid. I hate this. Like you're looking at the tag. I'm getting your initials now. Is it David? And you're from Freeport, aren't you? Reading your luggage is stupid.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

Now just a couple of steps removed, I'd be like, oh. All right, that's pretty cool. Or like when a mentalist will tell you how much change is in your wallet, that has my attention.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

Right. Or the Osperlman stuff. I'm going to write down the name of your childhood friend. That part I have no clue on. That part I want to learn.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:19

Well, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

Off the record. Have you read his book?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

It's good. It's very good. He narrates it himself on Audible. I give people respect anytime they narrate their own book. But it is a solid book. And he starts in the first chapter. He's like, I can't read mine. I can't. Right. I've home these skills, but after so many decades, I'm really, really good at picking up on what people are doing and gonna do and gonna say. I'm like, um people didn't know what a mentalist was before him. You say that to a lay person, they're like, Oh, I saw that guy on ESPN. Like, yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

Yeah. Chris, before we let you go, I'm wondering if there's something on your heart that you just want to let the whole world know in this moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

Hmm. Get a passport. I was a chubby kid, I had a 36-inch waist. And sixth grade, like I could wear my dad's pants. And I went to Honduras and I came home and I was like, Mom, what's wrong with my stomach? My stomach's weird. And she's like, Those are muscles. And I was like, I have muscles in my stomach. She's like, You have muscles all over your body. What are you talking about? And I I mean, I wasn't an idiot, kid, but like I just didn't know I had muscles in my stomach. I I went from a 36-inch waist to having an eight-pack and like two because we walked everywhere. I ate rice and orange juice and cheese, and I sweat and I came back and I was really good at sports.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

I don't think that would have happened if I didn't travel abroad.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:28

Also, wherever you go, people are people. I used to get really upset with politics. Really upset. But then I went to Bolivia and I saw people who had a job just giving away toilet paper at public bathrooms. It's free. But you gotta pay like 25 cents or Bolivian centavos for toilet paper. And that's a woman's job. Just and then there are kids on the street selling candy, and I don't want to give them any money because I don't want them to get hit by a car. I don't want to encourage that behavior. But that's what they do there. So I come back to the States and I go, Clearly it's not perfect. Some things are broken. And now when I see some kids in the street with buckets and trying to get money, I'm like, oh god. So get a passport, go somewhere where they don't speak your language. Wherever you go, people are people. Go to Indonesia, smack some cigars out of those kids' hands. It's criminal. Interviews of mom saying, My kid started smoking when he's two. And the mom saying, Who's gonna save me? No one's gonna save you. You have to save your kid. He throws a tang terror. Yeah, yeah, the kid's gonna be upset for three days. You're gonna save your kid's life. What do I want to tell the world? I don't know. Travel abroad. Listen to the Ratotlier Peppers. Yeah, if God's giving you suffering, say thank you for the suffering. And I'm sure I'm gonna learn a lot more from it than from pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:24

That's beautiful, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:26

Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:27

Thank you so much for being here with us. Oh, thanks for watching. Thank you for sharing your life. We're looking forward to seeing what you got in the future for everyone, the world to see.

unknown 1:10:37

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:38

Reaching out. Are you gonna go to any conferences this year or next year?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:41

I am the official janitor at Hitna Thoughts Live.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:44

Cool. Fingers crossed, I'll see you then and there. Yeah. Yeah. There's like a hypnosis conference almost every weekend.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:56

Bananas.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:57

Yeah, it's it's really exploded.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:00

I'll let you go in a moment. Who doesn't get enough credit is Richard Nongaard. Guy. Everyone's like, oh yeah, the founder of NLP, Richard Bandler. But Nongard, when I was on AGT, I wrote him on Facebook and said, Hey, I don't think I've met you, but here's my situation. What do you think I should do? And he gave me like a five bullet point plan that still holds up.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

He's like, I would do this and this and this and don't do this because other people are doing that. That's wrong. Do this. Holds up to this day.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:38

Yeah, he's brilliant. I I did reach out to him recently to be on the podcast, and he's like, sounds great. I'm just really too busy at this moment. Like he's a busy guy. He's got a lot of new projects in the work. I know he's doing some magic these days, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:54

It's yeah. Something about hypnosis and magicians. I I in ministry. We want to make other people feel good. I think this is a full circle moment. Want people to have a sense of awe and wonder. And when you're a magician, you turn adults into kids. That's the magic of being a magician.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:21

Yeah, and the ministry is like Jesus said, to be childlike. And that's where you find God.

unknown 1:12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:30

That's where we find the miracle.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

I'll let you go. I didn't mean to ask you, how do you pronounce your last name?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:35

Oh, it's de young, like young and old. It's a Dutch name. My grandfather's from Belgium. And over there, it's pronounced De Yona. And then in the States, they changed it to De Young because it literally means that.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:50

Wow. Glad I asked. Full circuit moment. Did your wife take your name?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:54

Nope. She's still Hartley. Yeah, they're just especially at our age, it's just a lot of paperwork to change. You mentioned the passport too. Like, let's just, yeah. Keep it simple.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:06

And when my wife was like, I'll be a Jones, I'm like, I don't know if you're gonna like me that much. Give it five years.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:11

Yeah, give it five years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:12

Five years you still want to be a Jones.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:16

All right, brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:17

Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. It was very therapeutic for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:20

Yeah, thank you so much. Me too.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:22

If and when you're in Chicago, please let me know.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

Oh yeah, yeah. I love Chicago. I love uh as a kid, I watched a lot of the Bozo show and then uh the Cubs games, Andre Dawson.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

That's what we have. That's it. Bozo and the Cubs and a Pope.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:39

And the Pope now, yeah. And and the and the president, a great president.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:45

He's he yeah, yep, he tried.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:50

He tried. He did a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:52

He did a lot. Boy, they made it hard. They made it hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:58

All right, brother. Thanks for the time.