DJ Jazzy Kat With Michelle Willson Talk all things Music and the world as we know it!

A writer in the respected Allmusic.com once put it this way: "Her singing is like a strong cup of Joe -- it beelines to the gut and jolts the system."
And that's putting it mildly.
Michelle is a force of nature -- an emotional ball of talent that inspires with her original songs but also takes you on a journey through what she calls "the lost music" of vintage soul/R&B legends like Dinah Washington, Ruth Brown and Etta James. 
Michelle has had a remarkable career. The Boston native made four albums with Bullseye Records (a subsidiary of Rounder Records) under the watchful eyes of producers Ron Levy (who also played keyboards with B.B. King for many years) and the Grammy Award-winning Scott Billington, who has more than 100 albums to his credit. Michelle herself has been nominated for the W.C. Handy Award for best blues vocalist (she lost to Etta James) and has toured internationally, with her own band and with (award winning blues pianist) Anthony Geraci’s Boston Blues all-Stars, with whom she appeared at The Lucerne (Switzerland) Blues Festival in 2018 and The Notodden (Norway) Blues Festival in 2019. She most recently performed in Switzerland with the Band Three Hours Past Midnight in November of 2024.
In 2013, she recorded a live album, Fortune Cookie, at world renowned jazz club Scullers in Boston. 2015 offered her the opportunity to sing with “Night Tripper” Dr. John at the Wilbur Theatre in Boston, MA. Michelle appeared on 2 of Anthony Geraci’s most recent recordings, as well as on 2 of Duke Robillard’s recent releases. Currently, she is writing new material and preparing to go back into the studio to record her own music for the first time in over 20 years.
A couple of little factoids:
Michelle dropped out of college to start her first band in 1978. In 2015, she returned to UMASS Amherst’s UWW program to complete her bachelor’s degree and graduated magna cum laude in 2019.
Michelle works at a small, mostly jazz, NPR affiliate radio station, 90.5 WICN in Worcester, MA. She is host of an eclectic, wildly popular weekday morning music program (Morning Vibe Time - M-F 6-9am) and acts as the station’s production manager, overseeing all aspects of recorded programming. (wicn.org)

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey guys, it's DJ Jazzy Cat back on Catchtrack Radio. Welcome in, everybody. I hope everybody's doing great. We've got a nice surprise again for you here on Catch Track Radio. Uh find and seek, if you will, Michelle with Wilson with two L's, W I L L S O N from Massachusetts, blues, and many different genre singers. Hello, Michelle. How are you? Hey DJ Cat. How are you? I am great. I am wonderful. You're in Massachusetts, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

I am up near Sturbridge, yeah. How about that?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

How about that? So let's talk about what you do as a singer, songwriter, and all kinds of great stuff, bluesy kind of lady. I saw your stuff on Facebook and I was so impressed. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

You know, I've been doing this a long time. Um I started singing when I was about eight years old in church, like a lot of people, and kept at it through high school. I dropped out of college to start my first band, and um it was a three-piece acoustic folk trio. We performed mostly around Boston and Cambridge. This would have been back in the gosh, early 80s, and um it was called Mimi Jones, and we were very popular. All the serious hardcore rock band guys would come to our gigs and sit there and sort of Google eyes up at us, and so we thought, oh, we're really something special here, oh yeah. And um after a while, one of those hardcore rock and roll guys uh caught my eye, and we ended up uh going out and eventually getting married, and we started a band together, a large funk band with five horns and two guitar players, and um again that was it was a pretty locally successful band, really a lot of fun. Eventually, um our marriage uh didn't work out. We stayed, you know, good friends, but the marriage part wasn't happening. And so when I started to think about what I was gonna do next, I came across the music of it was a it was a weird story. I'd been touring with um uh another band um and people used to give me this was back in the days of cassettes, which I guess I'm making a comeback, but um, so they would give me cassettes that they had made, mixtapes, and they would say, Hey, you know, you should be singing this kind of music, not the kind of music I was doing, which was more like funk, you know, Aretha Franklin funky kind of music. And uh so I just threw the tapes in my gig bag and never thought twice about it. And one January I was stuck up in Vermont with this other band that I was touring with in a bad snowstorm. We were there for like a week. We didn't want to be there, we were just there. And so finally I pulled these tapes out of the bag because there was nothing to do. I thought, I'll listen to these. And do you know, DJ Kat, that all of these different people that I didn't really know all that well, they were just people that came to my gigs, had put the same material from the same artists on these different tapes, and there were people that I hadn't really ever heard of: Dinah Washington, Ruth Brown, Edda James, Big May Bell. And as I listened to this music, I was like, what is this? And especially Dinah Washington. There's something about the quality of her voice that really captured me. And so I decided that my next project would be a tribute to these singers that I had, you know, been introduced to. What I particularly liked was my experience with blues up until that point was through my ex-husband, and it was mostly like sort of country blues, or if women were doing it, you know, mostly men, if women were doing it, it was always these sort of sad sack victim, you know, my man done left me, my life's over now type of tunes, which I totally didn't relate to. But Dinah Washington, this song, Evil Gal Blues, it was about the female protagonist saying, Hey, I'm the one driving the bus here, and you better watch out for me. And I had just it turned my life around. And it so it turned my life around musically, and it also turned my life around personally, taking that position of power along with those other wonderful artists whose music I started to perform. So it was it started out as just a little one set, one night tribute show, and the next thing I knew I was entered into a competition, the blues, the Boston Blues Society competition, and we won that. And then the next thing I knew, we were going to Memphis for the national international blues competition, and we won that. And then the next thing I knew, I was signed to Rounder Records, boom, boom, boom. And I spent 10 years with Rounder, made four albums with them, traveled all over the world, and then 9-11 happened, and everything just kind of fell apart. And uh so it was a rough period after that, and then um eventually I started working at a radio station out in Worcester. I wasn't really singing anymore. There weren't really any gigs for a long time after 9-11, not you know, serious gigs. Uh and um so I started working at a radio station out in Worcester. I had been doing a gig for them. Uh and the manager said, Hey, have you ever thought about being a DJ? You have a good voice. And so the next thing I knew, I was on the air at WICN in Worcester and stayed there for, I don't know, maybe five or six years. And then they changed their format a little bit and let me go. And in 2014, I uh saw that they were looking for people again, so I reapplied and they took me back, and uh I've been there ever since. At WICN now what I do is I uh I'm on the air Monday through Friday, 6 to 9 a.m., and I play music and tell stories and tell the history of this music that we all love so much and how it the threads that connect it all together. That's my passion. And the audience seems to enjoy it. My show's called Morning Vibe Time, and the listeners are called the Vibe Tribe, and individually they're triberinos, and so now they come to my gigs and they yell out, you know, hey, I'm a triberino, I'm here at your gig. And uh I also became the production manager at the station because the production manager was retiring. I just needed more hours. I didn't really know anything about production. I'm not sure I do now, but I've been doing it for 10 years, and uh it's a great, great job. It's really fulfilling and wonderful. I also went back to school in uh 2015 because I decided I wanted to finish my degree. I had dropped out of college all those years before, and I thought, you know what, I'm gonna finish this degree. So I did. I went back to UMass Amherst and I uh graduated with honors in 2019 and the oldest, the oldest college graduate ever, and then uh continued to work at the radio station. I started to realize that I really wanted to do my own music again more seriously to get back into writing and recording. I had made a live album at Schullers Jazz Club in Cambridge in 2013, but I wanted to do new material, original material. So I started working on that, and um, and then COVID hit and everything came to a standstill, as we all know. Um, for almost two years. I was one of the only people that they had to keep on staff at the radio station in order to stay on the air. Up until that time, we'd been mostly live hosts doing their shows live, but during COVID, they would record them and send them in. So my workload tripled over those couple of years, and I had to lay the music thing down for a while. Well, then it all started to sort back out, you know, a few years ago. And I thought, you know what, I'm gonna I'm gonna get back into it again. I'm gonna start leaning back into my own stuff. And so that's what I've been working on. Just getting gigs again, getting more gigs, getting my name back out there, you know, not quite dead yet, still here, and then now starting to write again and partner up with some wonderful collaborators and get some original material together so that later this year I can finally go back in the studio and make my first studio album in 25 years.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Wow. 25 years, and you're still at it. I love it. You're such an inspiration. You really are. I I am driven into the conversation, listening. You know, you take me down memory lane, and like you said, it hit hard with COVID and everything. So did you satellited from home during COVID? Is that what you were doing?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Oh no, I went into the station every single day. I think you know, I was one of the people, but I guess it's essential worker.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

I mean, you were committed. I love the idea. Oh, yeah, yeah. So do you play on your station anything different besides the blues, or is it a variety of music and storytelling? Is that what it is?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

The station itself, it WICN is a is a wonderful station. It originally started out, it's WICN, which we originally stood for the Worcester Intercollegiate Network. And so it was a few different colleges in Worcester. Um gosh, probably about I don't know, 40 years ago. Yeah, I mean a long time ago. And it's been a bunch of different things, you know, a folk station, a rock station, a classical station. Eventually, um it became a jazz station. That was probably about 25 years ago before I was there, but that was their main focus. When I came on board, originally I wanted to do a specialty show just to pretty much highlighting the uh music of the 40s and 50s, rhythm and blues music from the 40s and 50s. I did that on Saturdays for a few years, and then as I said, they changed the what they wanted on the air, and I left for a while. When I came back, I did a bunch of different shifts, and it was mostly jazz, um, you know, all the different types of jazz. Eventually, they put me in this um drivetime slot in the morning because the listenership had, you know, it was down those few hours and they wanted to bump it up, and they said, Well, here, see what you can do with this slot. So I've been doing that now for about seven or maybe seven years, and it's just fantastic. I started doing it before COVID, and on regular terrestrial radio, you know, you're not supposed to talk that much. You're just supposed to play the music and say very little, and that's not gonna work with me because I like to talk. Same. So um they so they you know would would sort of caution me about it, but it was all very, you know, friendly. But then COVID hit, and the weirdest thing is that when COVID hit, the way that I like to do things, somehow it just completely connected with where people were at, because suddenly, instead of being the background to them, you know, getting the kids off to school or making breakfast or drink, you know, they were just sitting at home. And so my particular little quirky way, which really frankly had never been anybody's cup of tea except mine, was like the best thing ever. It's a slice of bread. Yeah. And people started writing to the station and they would email me and call, and and I thought, wow, this this has really struck a nerve. I don't know that my show would be as popular as it is if COVID hadn't happened. Um But afterwards, as things started to, you know, the world started to open back up again, the people stayed with me. And I have it's just a beautiful opportunity because it's before the regular broadcast day. It's before the big kids get up, as I like to put it. And so we get to hang out, and I just share what I want to share with them, whatever I feel like sharing. It's a very I have a very eclectic taste in music, and I think a lot of other people do too. And one of the things about our some of our listeners is they're serious jazz people, and so sometimes they send in messages, say, hey, this isn't jazz. What are you doing here? This is a jazz station. And so I love to connect the dots and explain to them, well, here's how it connects back to jazz. And so the the emails that I get that I I have to say I love the most are from people who say, you know, frankly, I don't really like the music you're playing, but what I like is you, and I love the stories you're telling. And then when younger people especially write in, you know, email in or call me or something, and they say, Who who was that you were just talking about? Who's that Diana Washington? Who who's Slim Gaylord? What is that again? That for me is everything because this music, whether it's jazz, blues, it's uh first of all, it was largely invented by black people. And uh they really have not been given the credit that they deserve, the creators of this music. And I appreciate that to some extent, Kat, because when you're a performer, for example, and you're doing a cover tune, you don't necessarily want to tell people this isn't my tune. You you don't want to lie and say you wrote it, but you don't want to necessarily point out that you're doing a cover. So that's how I think a lot of this information got lost. It wasn't intentional, but that doesn't change the fact that these incredibly important artists and creators in our history have not been given the attention, the respect, and the place in our history books that they deserve. So when I'm able to tell someone about like someone like Mary Lou Williams, um, and then they go and do research, I feel like I'm I'm sort of like part of a river and passing this information along so that it stays alive and can go to the next generation. And that is, I think, the most important thing that I do.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Well, you have reached my heart big time just by telling your story. Definitely, like I said before, you're an inspiration, and I like the idea of the storytelling. I definitely think reaching people at a different generation, I think it's very inspirational. You definitely have it going on, and uh, I'm sure when you go out to perform, it's the same kind of feel. I'm sure your fans are just gravitating towards you, Michelle. I think it's a great yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

I really appreciate your saying that it it's um, you know, there were a lot of really dark years after 9-11, um, when everything fell out and the record contract went away. And frankly, because of the fact that I was sort of discovered so soon after I started doing it, I didn't really know what to do. And I didn't have a big support network, you know, no manager, no, no team, no, no record company. I just didn't really know what to do. I still don't. But um, and I felt really badly about myself for a long time. Unworthy, you know. I think a lot of people feel that way.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Sure, especially trying to get out there in the industry the way it is, you know, because anywhere, you know, doing anything.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

People and our society now, and I'm not pointing any fingers at anybody because it is what it is, but especially since the internet and since social media became pretty much the way that we all communicate with each other, I think that a real spotlight has been put on everybody's best side. And I'm not putting that down, man. You know, it is what it is, but you go through there and you just think like, wow, that person's doing great, wow, that person looks great, wow, that person sounds great, wow, that person's great, wow, that person's great. And then, oh, well, and so I think it's a bigger thing than just me, but it sure got me by the throat for a long time, and it's been um a very rough climb back up out of that hole, but so rewarding. And I I'm just myself filled with inspiration because the ability to say, hey, you know, I I feel like I really want to do this, and I'm gonna figure out a way to do it, and I'm not gonna let anybody's judgments tell me not to. And the paradox of that, Kat, is that I think part, I mean, look at what's going on. Not, you know, I know not to get into politics. We can't get into politics on the stage that I work for. But no matter what side of anything you're on right now, it's really crazy times. And everybody's on edge and uncertain. And I think that if you're a person who already feels kind of questionable about themselves, it it's so easy to just duh dive down into complete despair. And the ability to figure out a way to not do that, and then again, I think, you know, there's other people out there that know me really well and have watched my whole trajectory over the last 40 years. And for those people to look at me and say, Wow, she climbed back up out of that dark hole. And you know what? Maybe I can do that too. Again, I consider that to be the most important work that I have the privilege of doing.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

And then, you know, we Michelle, we only have time on our hands, right? So all of the information that we portray, a lot of fast pace, like you said, things are going so fast. If we take our time to actually stop, think, listen, and then put it into something like you do, and even your music, this is how we're touching people in a special way, and that's what I that's how I portray you.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Oh, music, you know, it sometimes I think about uh how uh music you know, it speaks to us on such a deep level. So there's different styles of music, of course, and everybody's got their own, you know, stuff that they like. But the larger bucket of music, it does something to us that's so profound, so deep, and there aren't really words for it. Um we find words to talk about it because that's how we communicate with words. But when you think about the fact that, you know, with Alzheimer's patients, for example, people who can't even speak anymore, they don't even know who they are or where they are. If they were musicians or um just loved music, and you put them in front of that music that they are familiar with, they come up out of it in a snap.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Oh, easily. It's a universal, yeah, it's a universal language, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:30

And it's so deep and rich. And that idea of being able to acknowledge there is something connecting all of us, and so something like music, I'm sure it's not the only thing, you could say the arts, the creative arts, you know, all of them, it it's a part of us that's sort of atrophied, you know, and so to be able to dig back into that and say this stuff is really important, and then to have other people say, Oh, you know, I don't know what I don't know what you're doing there, but I I really like that. As an example, nowadays with AI music getting more and more popular, you know, created by the computer. It's not even no humans were involved, and I'm not putting it down, it's not going away anytime soon. However, there is nothing like humans doing stuff and appreciating stuff together. That human element, it's a mystery, and it's something that we've sort of taken for granted. Again, um, you know, COVID, it it was it's it was and still is a horrible thing, but it's interesting that sometimes out of horrible things, there are aspects of it that are really beautiful, positive. And so with COVID, for example, one of the things that I think happened was that people discovered the importance of community and of being together in public spaces. Whereas before, maybe it was a little bit taken for granted, or oh, there's too many people here, I don't want to go out. But after a couple of years of being at home, everybody's like, I'm going out.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

So also to appreciate for me, for example, I'm a real lone wolf sort of a person, and I'm one of the people that sort of didn't really want to be in community with anybody. You know, I'll do my gigs and I'm up there on the stage and I sing and you listen and now we all go home. But over the last few years, especially, I have come to discover, I guess, and understand in a completely new way the beauty of community and how important it is. And so, you know, all those years ago, whoever it was, was it Hillary Clinton saying it takes a village um understanding, like, whoa, that's actually really. True. And so, for example, to have the people at the radio station in the Greater Worcester community, the people who come to my gigs connecting with you now, reaching out and connecting with the people, you know, that are your community, that is it's just so beautiful and incredible. And I think combined with that, being able to have the platform to really make sure that we acknowledge the creators, the original creators of this music, and give them their place in history.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

And the credit that they deserve, absolutely the credit that they deserve.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

And you know, nowadays, I mean, maybe back in the days when there were albums, you know, bigger albums, and we'd sit there and you could read the back of the album cover. Then it was, you know, cassettes and CDs, and so the print was really tiny, and now everything's online. You can find anything you want online. But the problem is you need like a tour guide, you need a librarian, because there's just so much out there, you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

It's a little overwhelming, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

It's totally overwhelming. So to have people who say, hey, part of what I'm gonna do here is tell you about this person. Here's this person, here's why they're important, here's what they contributed, and here's how it directly relates to you today. And most people, when you do it like that, not lecturing them, I don't mean that, but it like you know how when you find something that you just you're so excited about and you want to go and tell your friends, oh, I found this thing, I'm so excited, and then they get excited because you're excited. That I think is the way to get people to care, at least that's my experience, and I'm especially excited about the young triberinos that I have listening and the young people that come to my shows, because you know, they're the future, and so if they can get excited about Mary Lou Williams or Slim Gaylord, or um I just think that's everything because then they'll keep it and pass it along, and that's all we can do.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Well, you're giving them an education, like I said before. I definitely have been informed by a lot of uh eye-opening things as things progress. And when I when I saw your story, I was very, very intrigued to find out what it is exactly that you do, and the more I listen to your story, the more educated I want to become too. Like you said, the world has just been going so fast and and feeling the the realism of what you do when it comes through not only your program that you run, but also through your music. I think again, I'll say it one more time. You're an inspiration for many young people and you know older folks that want to listen and they take that time to understand where you're coming from.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

That's beautiful. Thank you so much. That's a beautiful thing to say. I think that this uh you know, these stories and um the music itself and then bringing that to your own original music, as I start to get back into writing, it it's hard, you know, because the day job that I have at the radio station, it it's a more than 40-hour a week job. Like it's a serious, real, more than full-time job, and it's something that I give so much of myself to, and I'm happy to have the privilege of doing it. But I realized a couple of years ago that I was gonna have to start pulling back somewhat in order to save some of my creative energy for myself because I just wasn't writing like I wanted to, but I just wasn't. And when I stopped to think about what's going on here, I realized it's just because I'm spent, I'm spending it all. So I needed a little savings account, and so I started doing that, just kind of pulling back like emotionally, I guess, not giving all my creative energy anymore, still doing my job, you know. But and it's it's really proven to be really rewarding because that's what's given me the opportunity to finally step back into songwriting again. And I I'm not sure why, but for some reason I'm I'm just really hung up on original music. I love doing covers too, but right now I just really want to continue writing and have that be the next thing that I do. So I'm hoping I got hung up too on the money stuff because all the albums I ever made, except for the live album I did at Schullers, um, you know, a record company paid for everything. Um, they took care of everything. Rounder Records, wonderful company. And they took care of everything, they paid for everything. You know, all I had to do was show up relatively sober at the gigs, and you know, they did everything else. And when that all fell apart, I was just lost. I had no clue what to do. And so it's that's been a big challenge to figure out what to do, and that's been one of the great things about the social media era that we live in, is that now anybody who wants to be creative and put their creative output out there into the world, this giant platform is there, just sitting there waiting for them to do it, and that's beautiful. Now, it's not always beautiful. I have to say, as a person who works at a radio station and gets hundreds of submissions every week, they're not all good. And sometimes you find yourself saying, I don't know if you should have sent this in. But what I love is the fact that people are expressing themselves and being creative. And so for me, that's the thing that finally pushed my button and said, you know what, these people are all out here doing this. I need to be out here doing this too. We all need to be out here doing this. Creativity, and this is the other thing about the social media era that we live in, is that you're supposed to want to be super famous, right? And so, unless you're everywhere all the time, it isn't valid. That's that's a different story for a different day. As far as expressing yourself creatively, living a creative life, everything we do is creative. Setting the table is creative, shoveling the snow is creative. It all depends on your mindset and your intention. And so getting back to the idea that noticing small things and the beauty in small things and the way that you choose to do them, that's creativity. And that again is one of these things that it doesn't sound like much, but suddenly when you stop and take where I live, for example, out near Sturbridge, I live on a street that has a waterfall down the end of the street, and so you can only see it for a couple weeks in the springtime when there's a lot of water and no leaves yet. And right now it's it's roaring away down there. And so to stop for a minute and just look at that thing and appreciate the sound of it, that's what we all need to get back to doing. Instead of not that I want to tell anybody what they need to do, but I mean in addition to everything else that we're doing, sure to appreciate the beauty in each of our lives. And I don't I'm not trying to downplay the bad stuff that happens to people. Uh I'm just saying that almost at any moment, if you're capable of it, you can stop and find something that is just so heartbreakingly beautiful, and that little nugget you'd be surprised how it can change your entire day.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

At least that's how it is for me. I don't know. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Well, you know, I'm saying originality, you know, keep it real. Don't be you know, that's where I'm going with that. Yeah, definitely. The you know, the earth is our tool. I always say that too. Get outside, go and look at you know, your surroundings and just say hello. And if you have to shake somebody's hand, do it. Don't be afraid to say hello. Maybe I'll give you my smile today because you didn't have a smile. Definitely. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

It's funny too, because you think, you know, a lot of times about you know, you I like to talk to people, you know, especially when I see people who look really fantastic or are presenting themselves in a really fantastic way in public. The vibe they give you that vibe, right? Oh, dude, I was just at the supermarket, and there was the guy in the produce department, and he was so nice to these customers. He was really taking time with them and explaining stuff to them, and you know, they were just having a really great conversation. And I watched him do this with several different customers, and I thought, man, I gotta go tell that guy how great he is. Right. And so I did, and he was beaming. He said, Wow, thanks for telling me that. And I said, Well, I think we need to hear this once in a while when we're doing that, and it's exactly what you were just talking about, shaking the hand, basically. That that is it doesn't seem like much, but the people who do that, who have the courage to do that, say something, say hi to somebody, tell them they look awesome. Like, go ahead, do it.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah, I've had many examples. You know, I could give you ideas of people and things, and you know, they downplay one another, and there's me behind the scenes, like, hey, listen, you know, let me buy you a coffee today, let me pay it forward. I saw that they gave you a hard time, let's just do it.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Yeah, that sounds great. I think also that it it takes a concerted effort to not participate in the low-hanging fruit of gossip and drama. It it's like a soap opera. You know, there's a reason why soap operas are so important. There's a reason why fast food is so popular. It's cheap, it's easy, it's addictive. Um, okay, you know, I I hear you. It takes a little bit more work to appreciate the kind of stuff that you're talking about right now.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

The authenticity, the moments to really see other people and their own value, Michelle, and their own value.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

And their own value and their own authenticity. That's um it's important. It's I I don't even have the words for it. Important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Important, important to someone's uh, you know, oneself.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

And that we all have to those of us who decide to, you know, um, as a general rule, you know, social media, it's so much easier to get attention for negative, you know, critical.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

I gotcha, I gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

And and the the beauty of the mundane, smaller things, but I have noticed that that does seem to be starting to shift. And I see things online, for example, where people are saying, Hey, on this site here, we post beautiful things, and that's what we do. And how great you feel when you look at those things, you know, the little baby bunnies or the people being nice to each other or the kittens or whatever, and that good, beautiful, warm feeling that you get that's the same feeling that you get from music.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Absolutely good music, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Connection. And I think that again, going back to that idea of sometimes really good things can come out of situations that seem nothing but negative. Artificial intelligence, it's not going anywhere, and I'm sure it has its uses and purposes, and so I don't mean to be disrespectful to anybody that is engaged in that. However, I think that one of the great things that's already happening is that there's a bit of a pendulum swing back towards authenticity and real human connection that may not have happened if I AI wasn't so popular. So out of something that seems, hey, they're taking our jobs, hey, they're making our music for us, uh, you know, the danger danger uh mindset, if you look the other way, you say, and I've had this happen myself, you probably have too. I bet every musician listening has had this happen in the l recent past, that especially younger people, they come into a gig, you know, they just stumbled in there, or they didn't mean to be there, and then you start playing, and they just sit there kind of like, what is this? Like, what's happening right now?

SPEAKER_01 34:29

It's like foreign to them.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

And it's the it's the concept of human beings being together in a public space. Some of them are playing the music, some of them are appreciating the music, you know, sometimes both are happening. That's this incredible, you know. Again, there's no words for it, like with music, but if AI were not so popular and growing in popularity, I don't know that those people would notice the profound difference so much. So again, out of this like weird situation, something really beautiful could happen. Do you know the um well, it was a book and then they made it into a play and a movie called Auntie Maim?

SPEAKER_01 35:13

No, I've never heard of it before.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

So this, you know, it's going back to, I don't know, the 30s or the 40s or something, the book and then the play and the film that they made in the well, maybe late 1950s, early 1960s. And it was this over-the-top um woman, unmarried woman who was just so glamorous and so intelligent and so funny and witty, and she lived in New York and she just was in the middle of everything. Everybody knew her. She had a nephew that uh somehow she ended up adopting, and so she was basically raising this young kid. And at some point she tells the kid, kid, uh, whatever his name was, uh, life's a banquet, and most poor suckers are pulled up to the dining table, starving to death. That's not a direct quote, but it's that's the idea of it. And I love that. People are sitting at a full feast, starving to death, because the thing they're starving for is that human connection.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

That's what AI doesn't have. And so all these musicians who've been out there all these years, all my friends, you know, during COVID, they were putting on concerts in their living room and um then later coming back out, you know, it's it's hard sometimes to get gigs at all, even small gigs. And what's really hard is getting paid. But you know what changed after COVID is uh and I I I could be wrong about anything I say, however, my opinion is because of the fact that during COVID, so many people were posting their music online, and the people listening would contribute, would like tip them in essence. When COVID ended and people started going back out to clubs, I've never made so much money in tips as I have in the last couple of years. Really? Interesting. People are generous beyond belief with no complaints.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Do you think do you think it's not only the you know the way that the industry is, but do you think that the earth's tilt has anything to do with it? You know, gravitational. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 37:22

What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 37:23

But like there's a gravitational pull, like you know, has it changed? Because I know they're always saying something about you know the earth itself is always, you know, evolving. I love that. I'm wondering if it has any theory to do with it, because I know that you know, even though that they're saying there's a hole in the ozone, but I'm wondering if the gravitational pull is making people rethink their direction of thought process.

unknown 37:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Ooh, that's a rabbit hole. I'm gonna need to go dive down.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

That's beautiful. I love that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

You gotta think outside the box, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Um I've but I do know that people are being incredibly supportive and generous. And I think also for artists, another aspect of being an artist, oh maybe this is an old school thing, maybe younger people don't have as much issue with this. I don't know. But when I was coming up, if you had to like promote yourself or ask for money, it it was just ew, ick, like ew.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Yeah, why are you doing that?

SPEAKER_00 38:27

You didn't do it, and so when it came time, as the years progressed and the record companies, you know, there were no more record companies, you're doing this yourself now. It was very difficult for people to ask for money. Or another way of looking at this, for example, at the radio station I work at, it's a public, non-profit, independent radio station. And so fundraising is a big part of what we do. As a matter of fact, WICN is having their spring fundraiser right now, so we're all involved in that. And it used to be really hard for me to ask for the money, whether it was myself booking a gig trying to get more money, or at the radio station asking the listeners for their support. Over the years, my feeling about that has really changed, and I feel strongly that it's a mutual exchange. Um, so I'm giving you something and you give me something back. It's not just um a handshake begging.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Yeah, yeah. Like back in the day it was a handshake. I'll do, I'll wash your dishes if you vacuum my floor, kind of thing. Not anymore, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Well, I you know, actually, I gotta tell you, most of the gigs I do, I mean, many of them have contracts because that's the way it has to be done.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

But there's a few old school club owners that are, as you just said, it's the same as it was back in the day. They book you and we don't even talk about money. Uh it we just do the gig, and then at the end of the night they go, What do you want? I tell them and they pay me.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

And that's old school right there. That's that's trust.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Yeah, sincerity.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Yeah, and authenticity, where it's like, I don't I know that I don't have to worry about this because I know that it's gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

And I bet you they would help lift a drumstick if they had to, or or a guitar, an XLR wire. They'd probably help you at the end of the night, right? So that's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Absolutely. Absolutely. I was just talking about this with somebody at the radio station that um, you know, because we use volunteers, a lot of volunteers, and it's harder to get people to volunteer for things nowadays, partly because for younger people, um, volunteerism is often just not such a big part of their lives anymore, the way that it used to be back in the 20th century. And also just because everyone's so busy nowadays, you know, people are just working so hard all the time, they just don't have the kind of time that people used to have to go and volunteer for the attention span does a lot short-lived, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

I've seen that a lot. Even when you're putting things out into the internet, as far as uh they call them reels on Facebook, prime example, uh, artists that are doing uh videos, you know, for YouTube, the attention span in my studies has been uh a 30-second ad lib. That's it. And I'm like, where does that go with it, like you said before, with your imagination? How come you don't have the patience to sit and watch this artist and give them that uh positiveness of being able to say, hey, I respect what you just put out there. I watched your whole four-minute video on YouTube. Go through the whole thing in its entirety, then you can decide whether it's something that you're interested in.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Boy, that is such a great point. I was talking to my um the woman who works in the uh my dentist's office. This was like a year or so ago, Maria, and she's a young woman, and I was asking her if she'd seen a particular movie, and she said, No, I don't watch movies, I don't have enough attention span to watch a whole movie. And like my eyes practically bugged out of my head. And I I said, What? Because I just like that had never dawned on me. And I said, you know, I hear ya, but if you're ever in a position where I don't know, you're snowed in for the weekend or something, maybe give it a try and just relax into it and and see. See if it see what happens. And your body will thank you, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Your body.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Six months later, when I went back from my checkup, she said, Michelle, I gotta tell you, I did what you said and I watched a movie, and it was great.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Okay, so we'll sign me up for a PhD and calmness. Oh, I guess. Well listen, I I'll let the cat out of the bag on this one. I've been recently diagnosed with both dyslexa, dyslexia, and or ADHD, but I know how to calm myself. But I know how to calm myself down. And I know how to give the people the attention that they deserve when it comes to something, especially like I said, when I'm talking to you, I know how to give somebody the, you know, otherwise I'd be all over the map. But you have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Wow, that's yeah, it's another deep rabbit hole that adult um diagnosis, like especially for women. My sister's going through that same get just recently being um discovering, you know, that stuff about herself as well. And to come from a place of just feeling like, wow, I'm I'm completely like not getting it here, this life thing, to hey, wait, there's a reason why I'm like this, and then to be able to find the tools that you need to um move ahead. And then as we all tr try anyway, to be more fully present with one another, instead of just like you were just saying, have such a short attention span and be judgmental and move on. And then I have to say one more thing, and I could be wrong about this, so feel free to tell me that I'm you know off base with this, but as about you know, probably going back 30 35 years now, when the internet first started up, and when things got more accessible, there used to be more gatekeepers in the arts, the Record companies, for example, they would decide who was going to get signed to a record deal, and then they would decide, you know, what records were going to get put out. So there were so many other people whose music was never heard, you know. And so this is a paradox because, on the one hand, it's fantastic that everyone's music can get heard now. Love that part of it. But here's the thing I want to talk about. Back in that day, which is the era I came up in, it was an industry and you were trained how to be a professional performer, for example, how to hold people's attention. That is something that I think needs to come back. You have to craft the craft of being a performer, whether you're on the radio as a host, whether you're on the stage as a musician, whether you're, you know, giving a lecture or whatever you're doing, you have a responsibility to that audience to craft what you're doing so that they are able to relax into it and stay entertained for the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Engagement.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

So it's a two-way street, that engagement. It isn't only that the perceivers have short attention spans. It's and and a perfect example of this, and and again, I say this as a as a you know jaded, jaded old person, but you see these reels and these shorts and these you know podcasts, and the ad for it looks fantastic, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:34

And it's just super candy, that's why really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Wow. And then you turn it on, and within two minutes, you're like, wow, this is so boring. This is so badly done, and you you drift away.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Yeah, you lost interest quick.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Now, me, I'm not so great with the shiny real stuff. I get you know, and I have to get better at that because that's the world.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

Yeah, but you're a realist, and that's what people engage.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

They like Well, I'm a I'm content, you know, and so and people do they do love content. It's just that there has to be a there there. You understand what I'm saying? Sure I do.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

I get it totally. And if I hear the first line, like you said, you know, it could be eye candy, whatever, besides that. If I get into when I hear somebody talking such as yourself, you know, and you put it out there to the world that they just I uh anybody, anybody in general, if you get to where you need to be when you're first speaking, and I was taught this a long time ago, and people use very intelligent people will use a word in a sentence, okay, opening paragraph, they will speak of this highly educated word, but if they don't support it with the following sentence after they've already stated, then they're not supporting what they're talking about. So if you say something in a very educated word, you give it back to me as the spectator, the listener, however, and I find it engaging because you follow it up with what needs to be said about that subject, I'm gonna continue listening.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Wow, that is such a great point. I think about that a lot because um some of the um not gonna name any names, but some of the people on my radio station. We draw you know when I listen to them, I hear them, you know, they're passionate about the music, um, but their presentation is more coming from sort of a dry, I'm the authority, I'm the one on the radio, and they're boring, man. And and it's a lecture.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

Well, they say be turned a dial, right, Michelle?

SPEAKER_00 47:36

That's exactly right. And nobody wants to be lectured, and it's not my place to tell them what you know how what to do. But as a when I listen to them, and then I think about how I want to do what I do, I absolutely want to share information. I mean, I've I've been around a long time, and I I there's a lot of stuff up here in my little noggin that I want to get out of.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

I love it. I love knowledge is power, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Right, but I don't want to lecture people. What I want to do is get them excited about it. Of course, and that's like such a subtle difference, which you just highlighted, that that idea of if you're gonna tell somebody something, you have to engage them and then you have to follow up with it, and then you have to eventually connect to the dots, take them on a little. So, this is what I like to do, whether it's a live show, an album, my radio program, it's that you start out at one end, and you there's turnoffs, you know, you can take detours, but it has to be a thread that when they get to the end of it, they feel like satisfied.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

Like, yeah, that was a complete experience. Correct. They've gotten something positive out of it.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

And something connected and whole, not just this random recitation of facts and big fancy words.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

I think it's a cleansing. I think when you do something that highlights somebody, you'll get somebody either you'll strike a nerve or you'll make somebody happy, either or away. I think it's just lose. Yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

That's beautiful. Gee, what a pleasure it is talking with you. I could talk to you all day, but uh I'm sure you have better things to do. I really appreciate this, Kat. It's it means a lot to me to be able to um expression is everything, Michelle.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Yeah, definitely. And I will never forget the pond that would only show water in the springtime, so it'll stay on the head because we all need a cleansing once in a while, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:28

That's the truth. I love what you were saying about the um rotation of the earth also, because that's that's a very deep subject right there, which we won't get into, but I'm gonna go dig deeper into that. That's heavy.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Yeah, I think it has something to do with a gravitational pull. It kind of signs uh uh reminds me a little bit of uh I grew up with I'm Gen X, but I grew up with a lot of 70s, 60s and 70s, some fifties, of course, sock op, you know, without those artists like you said before. But growing up in that era and appreciating very good I say good music, there's good music everywhere, like yourself. Try to cover your tail wherever you can. But enjoying each one of the words that came out of the artist's mouth back in the day in the 70s, like the you know, there was a lot of everybody says, Well, peace and love. Well, I'm always about that too. So and and I get that vibe from you too. You know, you just want to see people feel what you feel, which is joy.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

Well, I I want all the feels, you know, I want all of it. Me too. Because that's the you can't really appreciate the brilliance and the beauty unless you're willing to dive into the dark place. But you also have to have enough sense of yourself to be able to go to that dark place and then know that you're gonna come back up out of it. And it's the contrast between the two. That's the sweet spot. And I think that we all need a little bit of, you know, we're all just holding hands, walking each other home in the dark, and so these little bright spots that come up, whether it's a podcast that you hear, a conversation you have with someone, or whatever. It it's it's how we get through. It's what you know, here we all are. And that's how we grow, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:09

We grow too that way.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

All right, Michelle. Well, we are listeners here on my station to your station. I would like for you to share where they can listen to you and uh where they can go out and see you perform because I think you're fabulous. Let's not forget that.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Thank you so much for asking. Well, my website is evilgal.com, e-v-i-l, g a l dot com. Um, and that's my website, my list, my gigs there. Uh, my radio program is on a wonderful station called W I C N. Uh, it's 90.5 in Worcester, Massachusetts. You can stream that online at WICN.org. And I'm on Monday through Friday, 6 to 9 a.m. And all you have to do to become a triberino is turn on the program.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Amen. Well, you know I'm gonna be a fan forever. You know that.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Hey, send me an email.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

Tell me what you want to hear. I will, most definitely, and I'm sure my listeners will go over to your station. Guys, if you're hope so. I I know that I will. I'm gonna push them that way.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Well, make sure to tell them to um let me know where they're coming from because these connections, it's everything, and it's just the best.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

I think it's wonderful too, Michelle. And uh again, I thank you for your time. I know you're a hard-working lady, and uh lots of gravitational pull coming your way. Positive vibes. Without those negatives, we didn't have the positive, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Yeah, I'm not gonna think of it anymore as drooping on my body's part. I'm just gonna call it gravitational pull.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Hey, listen, you know, it goes a long way. Those elastic bands are all around us.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

Yeah, it's just the gravitational pull. Ignore it.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

Yeah. Thank you so much, DJ Cat. You're welcome, Michelle. You have a blessed day, and I'm sure we will be talking soon.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Oh, I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

Okay, bye. Bye bye.