From International Adoption to Reclaiming Citizenship

What happens when your story begins in one country, is rewritten in another, and then calls you back decades later?

In this powerful episode of Family Twist, Corey and Kendall sit down with Sandi Morgan Caesar to explore a life shaped by early loss, international adoption, racial identity, and an unrelenting search for truth.

Sandi was born in Panama to a 14-year-old mother and spent the first year of her life with her birth family before being placed with a Black U.S. Air Force family stationed there. At just four years old, she experienced another devastating loss when her adoptive father died by suicide shortly after the family relocated to the United States.

Growing up as the only Black student in her school, navigating trauma, and always knowing she was adopted, Sandi began searching long before DNA testing made it easier. She wrote letters. She reached out to strangers. She refused to give up.

In 2004, her persistence paid off. With the help of a Panamanian government employee who believed in her mission, Sandi found her birth mother. Within weeks, she was on a plane to Panama.

But reunion is not a finish line.

In this episode, Sandi shares:

• What she knows about the circumstances of her adoption
• The moment she found her birth mother after years of searching
• The emotional complexity of reunion across language, geography, and time
• Growing up Black and adopted in predominantly white spaces
• The grief of losing parents, both biological and adoptive
• Reclaiming her Panamanian citizenship decades later
• What it means to hold multiple identities at once

This conversation also touches on immigration, race, safety, and belonging in the current political climate. Adoption stories do not exist in isolation. They intersect with culture, power, and history.

There is grief in this episode. There is resilience. There is music. And there is reclamation.

If you are an adoptee, late discovery adoptee, NPE, donor conceived, or someone navigating complicated family truths, Sandi’s story will resonate.

Remember, family secrets are the ultimate plot twist.

About Sandi Morgan Caesar

Sandi Morgan Caesar is a transnational adoptee born in Panama and raised in the United States. Adopted at 11 months old by a Black U.S. Air Force family, Sandi grew up navigating loss, racial identity, and the lifelong questions many adoptees carry.

After years of searching prior to the rise of commercial DNA testing, she located and reunited with her birth mother in 2004. In 2024, she reclaimed her Panamanian citizenship, deepening her connection to her country of origin.

Sandi is active in adoptee and transnational adoptee communities and co-facilitates a support group through Adoption Network Cleveland. She is passionate about identity, advocacy, and creating space for honest conversations about adoption, race, and belonging.

Transcript

Corey 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to Family Twist. Today's guest is Sandy, and her story is layered in a way that will really stay with you. She was born in Panama to a 14-year-old mother and spent the first part of her life there, before being placed with a black U.S. Air Force family stationed in Panama. By the time she was four, she had already experienced enormous loss. After moving to the United States, her adoptive father died by suicide. What followed was the childhood shaped by grief, racial isolation, trauma, and lots of unleashed questions. And like so many in this community, she started searching early, long before D ⁇ E testing, long before social media. Back when searching meant writing letters and hoping someone might respond. When she finally found her birth mother in 2004, it was life-changing. But as you'll hear, reunion is not the finish line. It's its own complicated chapter. And for Sandy, that chapter includes reclaiming her Panama citizenship, but decades later, and physically walking through the places that shaped her earliest memories. We also talk about race, immigration, and what it feels like to live in this moment as a black immigrant, even with citizenship. Adoption and identity does not exist in a vacuum. Here's our conversation with Sandy. Sandy, welcome to the Family Twist Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Corey 1:19

Absolutely. Well, we're very intrigued. Well, we're very intrigued to hear more about your story. We know a little bit. But uh, can we talk a little bit about you spent the first part of your life in Panama with your birth mother? What do you know about those days?

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Well, I know that my first mother was 14 when she had me. At the time she was living with her godmother, a West Indian godmother. That's important because she spoke English. So my first mother grew up bilingual, both English and Spanish. But she was living with her godmother. She had me. Her intention was to parent me. So she brought me home. And there we lived until her godmother passed. I'm not sure exactly if I was nine, ten months old, maybe even 11 months old at the time that she passed, but the better part of my first year was spent there. Once her godmother passed, she had to go back to her mother's home. Her mother had remarried, and the relationship with the stepfather was not great for my first mother and her three siblings from my grandmother's first husband, my grandfather. And so, as I understand it, my grandmother, my boyla, sent my first mother away. I believe it was maybe a detention center for girls or some such. I don't really have the specifics on it, but that's kind of my impression from what I've been told. And while she was away, that was when my grandmother worked with this attorney, I guess, that my adoptive mother had been working with and placed me. So I was placed with a black U.S. Air Force family that was stationed in Panama at the time. And at 11 months old, I was placed with them. And we remained in Panama until I was three. I do know when I was first placed with them, I was living, we were living, the family was living in civilian housing. And my abuela had asked my adoptive mother where we were living, if she could know. And so the family, my adoptive family, would report that they would see my abuela sometimes in the parking lot of the apartment building we were living in. Got moved to base housing at some point, and that's when my grandmother lost track of me. But my first mother did not know that her mother was doing this. She at 15 got her got married so that she could sign herself out of this place, came back to her mother's house to get me, and I was gone.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

And they never spoke of it until I found her some 30 some years later.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Do you know if your abuela wanted to be able to see you?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

I really can only speculate.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

I do believe that she thought she was doing the best thing for everybody. You know, her daughter was, like I said, 14 when she had me. My Willa had at that point seven kids. I've come to learn later that she only raised the youngest two boys, my two uncles, who are not, you know, I mean, a couple of years maybe older than me. But all of the older children had gone out to family and friends. And I don't know if that's because she was working. I you know, I don't really know why. But I do believe that she thought she was doing the best thing, probably for me and for her daughter. Yeah, as I understood, when my first mother came home and found that I was gone, she did not speak to her mother for at least a year. Wow. Um and I don't remember, 2004, 36, 37, maybe. It feels like estrangement to me. I don't think the family would call it estrangement, but my first mother lives outside of Panama City, um, in a very rural area. She calls it the bush, where everybody else is very concentrated in the city. They've all worked some kind of job, paraprofessional, uh, you know, mechanics. They've all held some kind of a job. My first mother never has worked ever. So I think it impacted her life tremendously. Yes, it created animosity. They worked it out to some extent, but my first mother was physically very far from everybody else.

Corey 6:04

When did the conversation about the adoption circumstance with your adoptive family happen?

SPEAKER_03 6:11

So I was about three years old when I asked my mom why my face didn't look like her face. She was picking me up from nursery school. It was nursery school then, I think we call it preschool now. Yeah. Everybody else's parents, all the other kids had the same face that their parents had in my three-year-old mine. Um, and she didn't explain it to me then. I think she kind of, you know, said whatever it was that appeased me at the moment. And then within the year or so, I started begging her for a little brother. Long story short, I don't know how long this went on, but she ultimately, I remember her raising her shirt and showing me the scar and said that she couldn't have kids. And I think I walked away with that, okay, for a second. And then I came back, whether it was five minutes or the next day, I don't know. But I came back and I said, well, then just adopt me. I don't understand what the problem is. And so I think she took that cue from me that I had used the word, I had used it in the proper context, I had some understanding of what it meant. And that's when she sat me down and told me that I was adopted. Um, I remember her telling me that my first mother was sh young in, you know, Panama. She told me that my first mother had other kids, which turned out later not to be true. But essentially, I think the story that a lot of us get that she just was not capable. She was not able to take care of me.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

How would you describe your childhood in general? Laird.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

You know, my overall sense is I had a good childhood. But there's also a lot of it I don't remember. There was quite a bit of trauma. My adoptive father, we moved to the States when I was three. And within a year, he died by suicide. Oh he had two children from his first marriage that lived with us at that time, my brother and sister, they were also with us in Panama, but they were much older than me, 12 and 14 years older than me. I don't really recall a time that they were in the house. I do know after my father died, my brother moved out. He was only 16 at the time. He was playing basketball in high school. He went and lived with his basketball coach. And so I had a lot of losses very, very early on, you know, on top of this kind of foundational, really huge loss that I've had. And then my stepfather, to my recollection, came into our lives very, very shortly after. And he was an alcoholic. He was abusive in different ways. And so that was pretty miserable. You know, the trauma, the disassociation, the whatever it is, there's so much of my childhood I don't remember. I can remember in our first house being very close with all of the kids in the neighborhood, spending a lot of time outside, you know, playing. That's why I wanted a little brother. All of the other people around me all had little brothers. But then we moved to a neighborhood that was predominantly that was all white. And I ended up being the only black person in the school for sixth, seventh, eighth grade. Wow. By the time it was time to go to high school, I told my mom I'm not doing that anymore. You know, I'm getting to the A's, I like boys. So I went to a Catholic high school downtown, which was still predominantly white, but it was integrated because the kids fed in from all across the city. Right. So most of my childhood, I I have an impression was good, but I know that there were a lot of hard things that I dealt with for sure.

Corey 9:49

At what point did you start thinking, I want to know where I came from, you know, who my people are?

SPEAKER_03 9:55

I mean, four, five years old. I asked a lot of questions. The one thing I can say to my mother's credit, there are a lot of things I can say to my mother's credit, but as it relates to adoption, she was very open in talking about it with me. She never verbally or in body language made me feel like it was an uncomfortable topic for her. If I came and asked questions, she would tell me what she knew or what she believed she knew, because again, later we found out some of the things she thought or had been told were not accurate. But she always discussed it with me. I probably teen years she showed me my adoption papers, which actually had my given name, my birth name, the name of my first mother and my grandparents on it. I think she said she had shown it to me because I was like, I've never seen this before. And I think she said she had shown it to me at some earlier age, but I didn't recall that. I've always, I feel like I was always searching, even not knowing how. I always had that longing to know, and I was always very vocal about it and thankfully had a mom who did not shut that down.

Kendall 11:02

Good for you. I had exactly the same experience with my uh adoptive parents. They didn't know anything legitimately, but they were open about that, you know, and they completely supported my search. They knew it would be difficult until I turned 18, and even then afterwards it continued to be difficult. But I knew when I turned 18 that I had their blessing. I knew that if they were alive, they would have helped me in my search. That made me that much more comfortable being, to your point, very vocal upcoming.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Yeah, I talked about it all the time. And even I think before 18, you know, the Donahue show was on and other things. I would write into talk shows any resources that they would show. I remember finding Alma as a teenager, sending off letters and things like that. I did ask my mother later why she was so open about it. And she just said, because if it was her, she would want to know. Being that she had adopted in another country, that she had adopted through an attorney that wasn't an agency. She had no education. It was just, you know, find me a baby, they found one, and and she adopted. So she had no training, no preparation, no homestead, right? And so she was really going off of her own intuition.

Corey 12:25

We know, I mean, back in the days when DNA testing wasn't readily available, it was, you know, I'm sure frustrating. And I, you know, Kendall could speak on this, the dead ends, you know, we ran into. And I don't think we've ever talked about this on the show, but at one point being convinced that he found his birth mother and turned out not to be. I mean, it was it ended up being, you know, uh a bittersweet sort of situation because she was very kind about it.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

But it was just, you know, we thought we had gotten there and it was just another dead end.

Kendall 12:58

Yeah. It's tough, but I was willing to make any connection. I don't think we've ever talked about this on the show. My friends used to tease me because when I turned 18, I knew I was born in Little Rock, Arkansas. And I put out a huge ad in the newspaper. I was willing to spend money. I had this huge ad saying, My name was Scott White. I was born July 14th, 1970 in St. Vincent's infirmary. And I was like, if you know me, please reach it. I was begging for some kind of information. Of course, nothing came of it. But and the irony is that my grandparents who made my mother give me away, they very likely got that newspaper because they lived in Little Rock, Arkansas at the time. So I have simmering resentment about the Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

I think definitely, you know, searching before DNA, but searching even before the internet, right? So I found Adoption Network Cleveland in the mid-90s. Yeah. I was living in Cleveland at the time. And and I can remember at first I just thought it was impossible. I mean, I was adopted from another country. I just thought it was impossible. My birth name is Rodriguez. I'm never gonna find a Rodriguez in a Latin American country. I mean, it's like searching for John Smith. Exactly. And I used to sit in those meetings for Adoption Network Cleveland and listen to other people, you know, tell their search stories and, you know, going to libraries, searching through um yearbooks or, you know, phone books and all kinds of things. And I would just, you know, I'm so happy for people that they are able to do this, but I'm also like just, oh, woe is me. And I would just ball like that's never, ever, ever gonna happen for me. It'll never happen. And like you said, I had done a lot of just reaching out to different resources that I could find through, you know, television and stuff like that, but nothing ever came of that. Ultimately, I got my first computer in like 1997, I think. I was a mom of two by then. My youngest child was a year old. You know, the internet opens up a whole new world. And I found a website called Panamanians from around the world. Oh. Panamanials alrededor del mundo. And I literally sent an email to every single Rodriguez on the website. This is my story, this is what I'm looking for. If you think you can help me, or if you might know of any of these people, please let me know. And so there was one man who responded back to me, lots of people responded. Good luck. Nice story. But there was one man who responded to me that he really thought he could help. He worked for the federal government, although like a Department of Agriculture. I mean, he wasn't in intelligence or anything, right? Right. But he just felt that he had enough connections. Older than me, maybe 15, 20 years. So he was, you know, mature, he was educated, he was worldly, he had traveled quite a bit. And we ended up developing this friendship through the internet, through email, through, you know, I'd mail Christmas cards with family photos and all of that from I think I probably found him maybe 98, 99. And he worked on that, on finding her for me until about two it he found her in 2004, February of 2004. What? And he found her because he was sitting in his office and it was an election year, 2004 in Panama. And he mentioned to the women, it was all women in his office at the time, and he mentioned to them, you know, if I could just get in and see those voter registration, I bet you I could find her. And and they all knew, I mean, that was his approach, was just kind of tell everybody what he was trying to do, and somebody will know something. So they all knew he had been working on this for four years at this point. And one of the women said, My mom worked in voter registration. Um, and so he got in and was able to look at the records and he found that my first mother was registered to vote. She was registered to vote using a friend's address and phone number. So he called that friend and said, Do you know her? I have some business to discuss with her. Could you ask her to come and meet me at my office on this day at this time? My first mother showed up not knowing what it was about. And he had all the photos I had sent him for years now. First asked her, Do you have a daughter? And she said, Yes, I do. Her name is Christina. And he said, Well, I think she's looking for you. And so that was that. That was February 2004. I was on a plane the first week in April.

Kendall 17:55

You're built like I am. It was your story is bringing me to tears because it feels so similar to the way I felt felt when I found my family. It's just until somebody's lived through it, I don't know if you can describe it. It's just amazing.

unknown 18:13

Yeah.

Kendall 18:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Many people, many adoptees go through it differently.

Kendall 18:21

So yeah. Well, it sounds like you're in reunion with her and that I am.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

You know, it's been complicated. The distance, the travel. Uh she's had a number of strokes in the last few years, so she is not her speech is impaired. Like I said, she lives very rural and isolated and poor. For a number of years, I was getting them phones and sending money periodically and all the things. The rain, there's a whole rainy season in Panama. The rain would take out the phone lines and all the things. Recently, we've gotten a couple cell phones, and then something will happen to the cell phone. In the early years, I talked to her frequently. Um, I visited in 2004 by myself, 2005 with my family. My husband, my two sons were kids at the time, my adoptive mother and my sister. Oh, wow. And then we didn't go back again until 22. Just a lot of reasons. We had moved a few times. My husband had lost his jobs, life was, you know, I had two kids, they were in sports and all the things. Um, so we didn't go back until 22. And by then, like I said, she was pretty significantly impaired. That trip was very different. And my friend that found her also, of course, spoke English, and he was with us for everything we did those first two years, 2004 and 5. But then he got older and was facing his own health challenges. So when I went back in 22, she really couldn't speak. He wasn't able to spend the same time. I mean, I think I had lunch with him one time during my visit. And then I went back again by myself in 24 because I lost my adoptive mother in 23. And I just felt like I've got down there. I have to get down there because I'm losing people. So back in February of 24, and actually at that point got my reclaimed my citizenship.

Kendall 20:20

Oh, that's pretty cool. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

It'd be a really good trip. I found the apartment building that we were living in when I was placed with the family, the one where my grandmother would come and check on me. I saw, I went to visit the neighborhood where my first mother lived with her godmother. She had talked about the building. The building is pretty significant because it was at the time the large wooden structure of some significance. A lot of West Indian immigrants who came to work on the canal lived in that building. And it's replicated at this museum in Panama. And we had went there to visit it. We went to visit this museum in 2004, and she recognized this replica of the building that we lived in and was so, you know, oh my gosh, you know. So I wanted to go back and see that neighborhood, see the site of the building and all of that. So 2024, when I went by myself, just turned into a really kind of great reclamation visit.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Very cool.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Yeah.

Corey 21:20

When you think about that trip in 2006 and having both of your mothers there, one memory immediately jumps out for you.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

I don't know that a memory my memory still doesn't work like other people's. I have feelings and impressions, right? And it was a it was it was a good time. I mean, both of them I I've heard a lot of adoptees talk about their being together with their birth their first mother and their adoptive mother and it being awkward and feeling the split loyalties and all the things. I didn't have any of that. They really both gravitated towards one another. Together, it was a good time. Like I said, I had my kids there. It just felt great to have both of my families as one, you know, in one place. I always say I've had fathers in my life, but when I talk about my adoptive parents, I really only talk about my mom because she was the one constant. And it was just a really great trip. And for her as well, because she had lived in Panama, you know, but at the time that we went back, it was 2005, a lot of things had changed. You know, they had given the canal back. So there was no more canal zone that was exclusive to U.S. citizens like there was, you know, in the late 60s when I was born and lived there. So a lot of things had changed, but she was able, and my sister too, my sister graduated high school in Panama. And so they were both able to kind of reminisce about how things were. The one thing you did ask, what's the one memory? So I never really put it together that when my mother, my adoptive mother picked me up, she had always told me this attorney came and said, you know, whatever, and they went to go get the baby. And she remembered following him, not knowing where she went. My mother had a terrible sense of direction, not knowing where they were going. She's just following him, right? Lots of turns. She has no idea where she is. And she picked me up from my grandmother's house. I don't know at the point in my childhood that she was telling me this, that she recognized it was my grandmother's house. She knew it was the family home and that there were other kids there. But not until 2005, I think when we were all there together, did I really put it together that these two women had met each other before. And my abuela still lived in the same house at that point. And my my abuela, I remember her asking my mom, where is your son? And gesturing this, all in Spanish, of course, right? But where is your son? Because my brother is six foot six.

Kendall 24:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

And so when she said that, it kind of clicked for me like we're all coming back to a place you've all been together before.

Corey 24:12

Yeah.

unknown 24:13

Thanks.

Corey 24:14

Well, Sandy, this isn't a political show at all, but I feel like it would be a missed opportunity if we didn't talk a little bit about the fact that you're an immigrant who has reclaimed your citizenship. And this episode will launch during Black History Month. How are you feeling about where we are in the world today?

SPEAKER_03 24:32

We can't not be political in these times.

Corey 24:34

True.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

God, it's awful. I mean, I feel like every day, you know, a year ago this time, when this administration was coming into office, it was like, oh my gosh, what is happening? Like, we live in the upside down. We are living in the worst timeline ever.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

And it just keeps things it just double down every day.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

There's a double down on the awfulness. And so, you know, I mean, I grew up a I identify, I grew up as a black person in a black family. And so I never had that moment of awakening. Oh my gosh, this country is racist, right? Like I never I grew up understanding that. You know, kids made comments to me at at very young ages, also being the only black person in a school. And when I say the only black person, I mean no teachers, no other kitten. I was it. You know, we integrated both of the neighborhoods that we that I lived in as a child. When we first moved into Panama or into the US from Panama, we were the first black family and other black families moved in, and then we moved again and again integrated another neighborhood. So I always understood that I always understood the realities of this country. But still the things that are happening now are so I don't even know what the word is to describe it. Awful doesn't do it justice, but just awful. And I think, you know, initially we were afraid as immigrants. We talk about this quite a bit in kind of the transnational, international, intercountry adoptee community. I co-facilitate a transnational group for adoption network, Cleveland. And so, you know, we know some of us have citizenship, some of us do not. I feel also very fortunate that I had a mother who did what she was supposed to do and find it incredibly negligent that there are parents who didn't for their adopted kids. And so in the beginning, it was like, well, yes, it feels awful being an immigrant in this climate, and even with citizenship, because there were a lot of threats of overturning, you know, rescinding naturalized citizenship and and even natural uh born, you know, kids who were born here as citizens, overturning that. And so it didn't necessarily feel safe either way, being an immigrant. But I think as we are seeing, it doesn't matter whether you're even an immigrant or not. Black and brown communities are being targeted. And so it is very, you know, you're you're just in always in this heightened state of alert and it feels very unsafe. I travel with a copy of my naturalization paper and make sure that my husband knows where my original is and my passport. But I don't even want to be pulled over with my originals because I don't trust that the people who I don't trust that they would do what they're supposed to do. Like legality doesn't matter at this point.

Kendall 28:07

No.

Corey 28:08

And citizenship that matter that this talking about this last night that, you know, yeah, we're two middle-aged white guys, but we're also two middle-aged gay white guys, and you know, those the back community is under attack as well. Six months ago, I don't think we would have thought, you know, these things could be happening, but they are happening.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

And you know, they have happened before. We don't know it, but we do, right? I don't think that things are the way they are because the administration is in office. I think the administration is in office because things are the way they are in this country. And I think it's a rebound from there being a black man in office. I think people got real pissed and said, oh no, never again. And this is the country that we have known for hundreds of years.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Look how we ended up here in the first place. So what we did to the native people. Yep.

Corey 29:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

It's all horrendous, horrific, and just yeah.

Kendall 29:11

I'm an HR guy and I have a new hire. And this morning she and I were watching one of our videos that I show everybody about harassment in the workplace. And there's this particularly poignant vignette that is really well done, where this white guy uh is being just an asshole to this man who had immigrated from Mexico. And I love it because you witness a Native American step into the situation, and it just all came to it's so poignant when that Native American steps in and the white guy, he's like, he almost vanishes into the background. It's like, yeah, you're doing what, you know, to him, what we've already done to this other group. You know, it was just it's a great video, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

Even that's not realistic to the times, right? The people who hold these beliefs that they're entitled to behave this way have been given permission to say the things out loud that they did that they would have been shamed for, to say the things in public that would not have been tolerated, to say the things at work that an HR would not have, you know, allowed to go on. Uh they've all been given permission. And so they don't blend into the background anymore. Like I said, they double down.

Kendall 30:37

Yep. Scary. As much as I didn't like Ronald Reagan, I do think during that era, we wouldn't have said the things that these idiots are saying now. It's just like, wow. Like, and I thought he was the Antichrist.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

We did. I remember being a kid when he was elected, and I can remember kids saying Ronald Reagan was going to come into office and send all the black people back to Africa.

Kendall 31:03

Yep. I remember those conversations too. It's just and we think, oh, we've already lived through all that stupidness, and it's like ten times worse.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

It was just more subversive, more polished. Right. And now they're saying the quiet hearts out loud.

unknown 31:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Mm-hmm.

Corey 31:21

And it's it's tough to be hopeful these days, you know, if we have somebody on from another country, you know, we ask, like, do you know, how do you do people understand that we're not this is not all of us, and it's not even the majority of us, you know, that we despise what's happening here too, and we're protesting and we're doing all the things. And yes, I think people around the world get it. It's not to say it's still not scary times because there's uncertainty for every person on the globe right now. But you know, I think our hopefully our similarities and our positivity and our fight, you know, this all goes away, hopefully. That's all we can do is keep charming.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Kendall 32:04

And I just I want to shout out to the people in Denmark right now to say, good lord, you know. We don't really need Greenland. But it's silly.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

Yeah, yeah. I do feel like the world other people some people know that it's not all of America. Right. But it's enough that he got in office. Yeah, right. It's enough that they're carrying on. So yeah, it's hard to find hope. I think I find hope knowing that, like I said, this is not the first time, this is not unusual for the United States. This is part of the history of the United States, and we've survived it before.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

We survived worse before. Yes.

Kendall 32:56

But Kendall, do you have any other questions before we get into our end of show question? Which I can't believe we didn't we haven't asked if you have any details about your birth father.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

Oh, I do not. Oh. Uh I think there's a story there that my grandmother took to her grave, my boyla. I believe this person was an adult. It has been said that he was either a friend of her father's or her stepfather's. I think I don't know if it's to protect me or to protect themselves. You know, shame makes people keep secrets that I don't feel are necessary. I think the truth, uh whether it's hard or not, yeah, um, is always better. And I do believe that my first mother and my grandmother were the only two who knew. And my grandmother died December of I don't know what year we're in, December of 24.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

So just about a year ago. We really pressed her, especially like I said, because my first mother's is not great, and she really, you know, her speeches in pair. We really pressed my grandmother to tell us something. Me and I had a cousin that was really going at her, and she just would not.

Kendall 34:15

Well, you never know. You might match with somebody on your father's side on DNA.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Yeah, I have done Ancestry and I've uploaded to like Jedmash and my heritage, I think. But you know, they're all very distant matches. I did when I went in 24, also DNA did ancestry kits for my first mother and three of her siblings, just so I could start parsing out who was on what side. I just want to know if I have siblings, honestly. Yeah. Never had anymore. Right.

Corey 34:58

Well, um, as we know, this is, you know, for everyone's circumstance, it's it's a roller coaster ride that you really never get off. I mean, we were kind of going through it last night. You know, when you're going through those fields and dealing with the trauma and stuff, is there a musical artist or a song that you lean on?

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Oh gosh. I love music. I would say through the years it has changed. I can remember a period that Bob Marley just I would play on repeat. It just would lift my spirits and make me feel encouraged. Bill Withers' music has always been very special to me, even as a kid, Lean on Me was my favorite song. But uh yeah. RB, you know, what we called soul music when I was growing up in the 70s. I can't think of one specific song.

Corey 35:49

All of those are regularly played in our house. We we jump from genre to genre, but I will definitely let Kendall know since he got I think his internet not turned out, but uh Kendall's loves reggae. And we had we just ordered my mom got us an Amazon gift card for the holidays, and we just ordered some new vinyl, and Bob Marley was one of those we ordered that I'm hoping arrives today or tomorrow. That'd be great for this weekend. Well, we really appreciate you sharing your story, and uh I think lean on me is so much an opportunity. Absolutely. I think lean on me is a very poignant choice considering the work that you do and with helping people. That's awesome. Sandy, thank you. There's so much in your story. Panama, your abuelo watching from a distance, the early loss, the years of searching when searching felt impossible, and then finally getting on that plane in 2004 and stepping into a reunion that was real, but also complicated. I keep thinking about that trip. You reclaiming your citizenship, walking back to the places that mattered before you even had language for why they mattered. It's powerful. Not just reunion, but reclamation. I also appreciate that we did not separate your personal story from the bigger picture. Race, immigration, safety, belonging, those things are not side notes. They shape how we experience adoption, identity, and reunion. And I love that when it all feels heavy, you go back to music. Bob Marley, Bill Withers, Clean On Me. That makes sense. None of this is meant to be carried alone. So thank you for your honesty and your persistence, and for trusting us with your story. And to everyone listening, whether you're adopted, donor-conceived, NPE, searching, in reunion, or still sitting quietly with questions, you're not alone. And we would love to tell your story too. Remember, Family Secrets are the ultimate clock twist. The Family Twist Podcast is presented by Savoir Fair Marketing Communications and produced by Mosaic Multimedia.