When Adoptive Parents Stop Talking and Start Listening

What happens when adoptive parents enter adoptee spaces and hear things that are difficult, angry or painful?

Charlyn Spiering doesn’t believe the answer is to get defensive. She believes it’s to listen.

Charlyn is the host of Adoption Uncovered and the mother of five children, both biological and adopted. She joins Corey and Kendall for a candid conversation about raising adopted children, talking openly about first families, respecting the parts of an adoption story that belong to the adoptee, and recognizing that even well-intentioned parents are going to make mistakes.

Charlyn shares her family’s experience raising Aaron, her son adopted from India, and the effort to incorporate Indian culture into their family without claiming his identity or story as their own. She also discusses Aaron’s feelings about potentially visiting India and connecting with his first mother, including an important reality that sometimes gets lost in adoption conversations: not every adoptee wants the same kind of reunion or relationship.

That opens up a fascinating conversation with Kendall about his own childhood. Kendall always knew he was adopted, but as a kid he still identified with the Native American heritage of his adoptive father. That connection wasn’t biological. It came from the man who raised him and the things they loved together.

Charlyn also has a family discovery of her own. She was in college when her father revealed that she and her brother had Jewish ancestry, something previous generations had deliberately kept quiet. Years later, DNA testing helped uncover more of that missing family history.

Corey, Kendall and Charlyn also get into closed adoption, searching for biological family before consumer DNA testing existed, disability and international adoption, the complicated question of first-family contact, and why adoptive parents need to make adoption something their children can actually talk about.

And because this is Family Twist, the conversation eventually includes Indian food, homemade potato pancakes, Billie Eilish, K-pop, Spotify playlists and the music our parents and children use to let us into their worlds.

Charlyn says something during the episode that sums up her approach to entering adoptee spaces:

“I want to learn. I’m not here to tell you stuff.”

Sometimes listening is the most important part of the conversation.

Listen now to Family Twist and hear an adoptive parent, an adoptee and two podcasters get honest about adoption, identity, culture and who gets to tell the story.

Remember, family secrets are the ultimate plot twist.

Transcript

Corey 0:00

Hello, it's Corey. We talk to a lot of adoptees on Family Twists, but today we're looking at adoption from a slightly different angle. Our guest is Sharilen Spearing, host of Adoption Uncovered. Sharlane has five kids, both biological and adopted, and she spent a lot of time listening to adoptees, birth parents, and other people whose experiences don't necessarily match the traditional everything worked out great adoption story. And she admits that that can be uncomfortable. I really appreciate that about her. She talks about going into adoptee spaces and hearing anger toward adoptive parents and having to resist the urge to get defensive. Her attitude is basically, I'm here to learn, I'm not here to tell you how you should feel. That leads us all over the place. We talk about her son Aaron, who was adopted from India, and how Charlotte and her family have tried to keep him connected to his Indian culture while recognizing that his story is his to tell. Charlotte also has a family discovery of her own. She didn't learn until she was in college that she had Jewish ancestry because it was something her family simply didn't talk about. So we get into adoption, identity, first families, and DNA. But we also talk about food, music, parenting, potato pancakes, and what happens when your kids realize they can make adoption jokes in public just to make mom uncomfortable. I think that's why we enjoyed this conversation so much. Before we jump in, a quick explanation. Once again, Kendall and I got so excited to talk to our guests that we completely forgot the part where you actually introduced the guest. We were chatting with Charlotte before we actually started. Somebody hit record, and suddenly we were talking about how much Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry Kendall has. So that's where you're joining us. No hello, no bio, no carefully planned introduction, just straight into DNA and Jewish ancestry. Honestly, that's probably a pretty accurate representation of what it's like to hang out with us. So with that cleared up, this is Charlotte Spearing, host of Adoption Uncovered, and apparently we're already into the conversation.

Kendall 1:48

What is mine, Corey? Like 2%? 2%? Yeah. Ashikenazi. We don't know where it bend in the family tree, but it's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

And that one is particularly a fascinating culture to incorporate into your life. I've been actually working that out because it was confusing to me at first. Okay, it's a religion, it's an ethnicity, what's going on here? Over the years, I've done a lot of work on that. And especially bringing that in because I have I've been trying to bring in my adopted kids culture into my one son. So my my older son is adopted from India. He is an adult now. So we have had a lot of discussions about well, what do you want me to share? What do you want me to not share? Because of course it's his story, it's not mine, right? Right. I actually it took a long time for me to to separate out what is my story, what is their story. And then my daughter, we adopted from foster care, and she's still a teenager, so I do not talk about her much except to say that we adopted her from foster care. But especially with incorporating Indian culture and figuring that out and and Indian food and going to Indian festivals, I thought, you know what? We should talk about our ethnicity too. I have bio kids too.

Corey 3:04

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

So yeah, we started trying to incorporate just pieces of what is Jewish culture. We're also like German and a lot of people, right?

Kendall 3:12

Combination of a lot of things, but yeah, it's interesting because I I had always known I was adopted, but I really identified with my adoptive parents' heritage. You know what I mean? Even though it wasn't real, it was definitely what I associated with. My adoptive father was part Native American, and so he had a great love of all things Southwest, like Southwest US. And I did too, but it was strictly because of my love for him, right? It's so interesting how if you had asked me when I was eight what ethnicity I was, I knew I wasn't my father's child, but I would still say, oh, well, part of my family is Native American because that's the way I felt. So it's a really interesting dynamic for adopted kids.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

And in in our family, I kind of got my first three kids in kind of a chunk. I had my bioson, he's uh 23 now. Hold on, he's my oldest, he's my bioson, and then I had my bio-daughter, and like when my daughter was about one, we started paperwork to adopt my son. He's actually six months older than she is. They allowed us to kind of sandwich him in there. So those three kids, I would talk to them, they don't remember a time when it wasn't all three of them. Right. And so to them, and my Indian son does not look like them, right? And so for them, this whole adoption thing and having different cultures and all that is super normal. That's another thing that I like to talk about too with adoptees and people like that. Is I feel like I talked to so many adoptees where that was kept from them, right? Like they're who they are, their culture, they're just they didn't have a a place to a safe place to talk, and especially with their adoptive parents, because that can be very intimidating, especially when you're seeking out first family or whatever. And so I've we've tried from the beginning to be like a we talk about adoption stuff all the time, and it's just a very normal part of conversation. And we talk about Indian culture because obviously he is different from us, and so that that's been something that's really normal to all of them, which I'm happy with. I hope too, as an adopted parent, coming into this community where of adoptees and and first parents and people like that. Because I know when I went to the conference in Atlanta, for I was one of the very few that we had the connection of being the adoptive parent, foster parent. And there needs to be more of us that understand what you all are saying and is sensitive to that and tries to understand that.

Corey 6:08

What was that experience like as an adoptive parent? Maybe not at this Atlanta converts, but the first time that you attended one of these, where there's a lot of adoptees, there are a lot of strong feelings coming from adoptees, there's a lot of anger, there's a lot of betrayal. Is there a stigma attached to an adoptive parent like you attending one of these events?

SPEAKER_02 6:28

So I think my my first exposure to those feelings was when I started podcasting and writing about uh adoption issues. And to me, my focus, because a lot a lot of people want to tell people stories, and I wanted to tell people stories, but I also wanted to get to how would you change adoption, foster care, make it better for everyone. I kind of got on social media and tried to interact. I realized, oh my goodness, adoptees have very strong feelings about adoptive parents very often and and very justified, but yes, it's it's intimidating. And I'm kind of a person like I am friendly, I want to get along with you to see all these like really, really angry feelings. It yeah, it yeah, it's intimidating because I don't want to be the bad guy, but I get what you're saying, and and and I and I understand every family is different, and and families can really be complicated, and parents do things they should not do, right? And I have, I mean, I've made mistakes, right? I don't go around giving parenting advice, I give hopefully some really general, okay, adoptive parents, let's talk to our kids, let's not be afraid, right? I do get kind of intimidated because I try to frame it like, look, I want to learn. I'm not here to tell you stuff, and I'm not gonna go to the conference like that and be like, let me teach you something. If I do end up speaking, hopefully it'll be something like adoption history and how it relates to the current day, something that any of us could learn about. And that is a project I'm working on right now, is trying to do some different topics about adoption history and how they relate to today. And one of them is my first one I'm working on is about adoption paperwork. And what's the history of that and how does it relate, especially to adoptees who don't have access to it, right?

Kendall 8:22

Well, it's funny that this topic came up for us because I have often thought of my adopted parents who are both deceased. I always wondered like how they would feel, like knowing them and knowing why they adopted and knowing that they tried to have a child for 17 years before they got me. I know that for them it was all it was all benevolent. It was all very, very, they just wanted to give a child a good life, and they did. And while I understand the primal wound and all of those things, I feel like my parents, my adoptive parents, did the best that they could to help one kid. It was me. You know what I mean? And they loved me unconditionally. I had such a wonderful experience that I wish adoptees could give parents grace and say, wow, people are just trying to have children not live in the foster system. You know what I mean? I feel fortunate that I never experienced that because I was two months old when my parents got custody of me. I never needed to go into foster care.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

I think that it was really great. And and I think sometimes, you know, a lot of negative news gets more traction, right? And so some people who are satisfied with their life, they don't feel the need to go talk about it. And so we don't always hear about it. I feel like I'm a little bit unique in that I had no trouble getting pregnant. I did not adopt because I couldn't get pregnant. I think that's an issue a lot of families have is if they could not have a child and this child is the child they can have, there can be a motivation to be like, okay, this is my kid, and just really feel like attached more. I'm not sure what you would call it, like identity or connection or or things like that. When I went in, we we actually purposely chose as far as my son's case that he's okay with me talking about, he was he was on a list of children that were waiting. He has mild cerebral palsy, he walks a little differently. And so he was waiting for a family, and we were like, yes, that is the kid that we want to give a home to someone that other people have said maybe they wouldn't. That's actually also a perspective that I would love to give. He he's a college kid in his own life, doing his own thing, doesn't really want to talk to mom, but that that is a perspective I would love to get from him. And I'm trying to maybe sometimes you know get him on on um a podcast talking about what it's like growing up walking differently, being disabled. Yeah, he says I can use that word. That's a perspective I'd like to see more in in adoption circles, too, is because I I think we don't always hear from those people. And some sometimes there there's severe disability, and that's why we don't hear from them. But I'm hoping I'm hoping we can get his his perspective soon, too.

Kendall 11:23

And his is particularly layered, right? Because he not only didn't ethnically look like you, but then he had that difference as well. Kudos to him for being a well-adjusted adult, right? I mean, that's that's fantastic, and to you as well. I mean, I often joked with my adoptive parents because it's tacky, but they were given photographs of a few babies, and that's kind of how I got chosen, which is strange. But my my father apparently carefully studied the photos. My mother was like, if I were giving birth, I wouldn't have a choice. And then I joked with them because I had illnesses as an infant. As so many that when I heard about them later, I was like, Boy, did you guys pick the wrong kid on accident? My mother would hug me and say, Honey, you were perfect for us. It didn't matter if I broke the bank because they were spending a lot on healthcare. I was their kid. I have a lot of love for that sentiment.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

I like to take my kids out out for coffee sometimes. It's a whole thing in our family. When mom comes around, we go, we go out for coffee, whatever. And so I had it was towards the end of Christmas break, and I had a few kids around, and I wanted to take whoever was willing to go. Just so happened that my two adopted kids were the ones that were wanting, were willing to go. And so I went out with with those guys for coffee. It was so funny because we're in like a public place in a coffee shop, and they feel they can make jokes about adoption and foster care and race and stuff like that. And I and they're so they're just saying and I'm like, oh my gosh. So that this is you saying this is not me. It's really interesting to hear that they're they're okay talking about their identity and making me uncomfortable and all this stuff, and they're they're they're good with that.

Kendall 13:18

It's kind of great dynamic, yeah, to have. You want them to feel that comfort, right?

Corey 13:24

And how did you explain to your bio kids about adoption, what adoption was and and how their brother came to be?

SPEAKER_02 13:31

We've talked about it in a lot of different levels, and this is something that I kind of put in the course I put together too about how, like, when they're kids, you can have books around that talk about adoption and things like that. And we actually, when they were younger, we homeschooled. I remember encouraging to do projects about like Gandhi. We would teach the whole homeschool group about like India and figures in Indian history and like that. Aaron came from India. These are this is I had a little uh picture with the exact channel that he came from. We actually were we're fairly lucky that we had got a good bit of information. Our agency, and and this can be really tricky with finding an agency that's going to try to do their best to make sure they know who these first parents are and their situation. And we we actually had a fair amount of information about that, and over time, I have told them his first mom's name, we know that. And so that's been something that really all of us have known for as far back as they can remember. So it's just been such a a normal part of I I'm not really one of those parents that's really shy about talking about like I love science, I have been talking about how babies are made and how adoption works from when the kids were little. They wished I wouldn't talk about it as much. They probably wished I had a little more filter, but sorry, guys.

Kendall 15:07

That's the way my parents were too. I think it's helping. I never felt shy about asking questions because my parents were just so forthcoming. I remember having very graphic questions for my dad when I was entering puberty. I was like, sit down, we need to talk. And he's like, You read the books, right? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I want to get specific. And he was cool. He was like, Okay, what do you want to know? It was just, I always had that relationship with them, and they were great.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

That's something where I felt like I wanted to correct from how I grew up because I think my parents were like actively, I don't know, afraid is the right word, but they did not like disagreement or conflict or anything. And that's one of the reasons why I remember the day in I was in college, and my dad sat my brother and I down and and told us, look, you guys are also Jewish, but you don't have to tell anyone about that. That was his comment because that was how he was raised. Because it was my grandma who was Jewish, and she was apparently kicked out of her family for marrying a Catholic. And so we were not gonna talk about that, and we know now, especially adoptees, that no, talking about it is where it's at. That's what's healthy for everyone. So that's definitely something I always wanted for for my kids from the beginning. And we, when I met my husband, we knew we wanted to adopt before we had any kids, and so we already had some of the things in place about yeah, we're gonna talk about stuff, we're gonna deal with stuff, we're gonna, if the kids have issues, we're gonna try to address them. My kids have criticisms and they're legitimate, and so we tried, but we didn't, we failed.

Corey 16:58

Has Aaron visited India or have desire to?

SPEAKER_02 17:01

That's kind of interesting because obviously being around adoptees, the the the story of connecting with first family is is just huge, right? And people feel very strongly about that. And I've at many different points in his life, we've talked about do you want to meet your first mother? Do you want to go to India? And it was always, even when we adapted, my husband talked about okay, I went to India to get him, and so he's gonna be the one to go take him when he's older, and we haven't gotten there. Like he's not interested yet. He has told me he'd want to know she's okay, but like he he doesn't feel like he w necessarily wants relationship or right, and I think it complicates things too. One of the things that I think complicates things is has been interacting with Indian people here in the US. Yeah. And we have tried to do that, we've taken him to Indian festivals, and he's been grateful for that. But we found it's complicated, we have racism here, right? In India, they still have the caste systems, it it's illegal, it's not outwardly, it's not supported, but among Indian people that we have still seen it. And and so for him, where he's coming from, with our estimation of what caste he may be in, that has not always felt like a comfortable connection. So going to India feels kind of complicated for him and us based on experiences we've had with the culture here.

Kendall 18:48

It's different being an Indian who was raised in America and an Indian who was raised in India. You know what I mean? Like that's automatically gonna be a different cultural thing. But yeah, I hear you because you're right. That few people that I know here in New Hampshire who are from India, they are funny to quickly point out that I know a husband and wife, and the the husband was very quick to tell me that he was a physician before he moved here. Like it was so important to lay that groundwork about success. And, you know, because of that, because yeah, he's they're very well aware of the secret caste system that still exists. And, you know, they were fortunate to say the least, but it was very important for them to lay that groundwork. And I joke with them and said, I'm not gonna be friendly with you because you were a physician.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah, and it's something that we sort of have our equivalence here in America, but we don't I don't think we fully understand how that works.

Kendall 19:55

From differences in dress, it's just more apparent there, right, than it would be here, I think. Sadly.

Corey 20:04

One of the things that I don't you know brings families together is food. So I don't know how much you've incorporated the Indian cuisine and and Jewish dishes and traditions, you know, into your your daily life. Have you incorporated those kind of traditions into the home?

SPEAKER_02 20:19

So I am not a big adventurous cook. So a lot of the Indian food that we've gotten has been when we go to Indian festivals. We have, like where I we live, we have India Fest that happens one once every year. And and then we have the Vali, the Festival of Lights, especially as my my bigger kids were growing up, we would always go there and get my son good Indian food. And he would look forward to that because it's okay, we're getting the good Indian food. I am super wimpy when it comes to spices, and so it just comes to him naturally, right? And so he's like so happy to get the nice spicy Indian food. And we've also gotten like frozen stuff that I can make at home really easily. And uh interestingly, like when my kids, my adopted son and his virtual twin, they're six months apart, so they were in the same grade, and they went to a middle school across from a food hall. And the the people who sold Indian food there, they went, they went to that place all the time, got to know them, and and they were able to get as much Indian food as they want at lunchtime over there at that place. And as far as like Jewish food, it was interesting because I remember growing up, my grandma, my Jewish grandma that I didn't know was Jewish at the time, would make potato pancakes every so often. And she brought over a meat grinder and put the potatoes through the meat grinder. And I loved that. It was my favorite food for a while. And then I realized over time as it went after I knew I was Jewish, that oh, that is a Jewish thing to make. And so I would make it for the kids and tell them, oh, we're doing our Our Jewish ethnicity. It's funny, just like a week ago, my daughter, who is they're all at college, and so she sent me a picture where she had made potato pancakes from scratch and sent me the picture to the family chat. And they know that's part of that's part of expressing her ethnicity, is that she's partly Jewish. So that that's I think that's really cool that she thought to to make this.

Kendall 22:27

Absolutely. And it's showing your respect, I think, for your grandma and for you that she's doing that. Do you want to talk a little bit about your course that you have online?

SPEAKER_02 22:37

I have a course out right now that's kind of intended for adoptive parents to try to help them walk through like where are your kids at each different age level, and how can you communicate to them about adoption? And what are some things that you might face? Like maybe if your kid doesn't want to talk about it, what what can you do? And it's a good point to think about is if your kid doesn't want to talk, it doesn't mean you don't. It doesn't mean like, oh, they don't want to talk. Okay, I'm off the hook. No, no, you're the parent and you need to step up and be creative. I have links of to all that stuff on on my website. But people want to want to go there, they can they can find that. They can find my podcast, Adoption Uncovered. I've been putting out episodes and writing about that for a few years now. I've learned so much. I I kind of enjoy being able to talk to people about all these different topics, like not only adoptees and and first parents, but like journalists, researchers, and that I get to learn about all the interesting things, all these different topics that I wouldn't normally come across and ask whatever questions I want. I find that to be really interesting.

Kendall 23:54

You made me think of something that I think of periodically, and that's that the options are so different for children now. We find that they're adopted. Because when I was a kid, it was a closed adoption. This is long before DNA was ever thought about as an option. And so I kind of resigned myself very early on that you can be curious, but I just felt like I would never find anyone. As soon as I could, I petitioned the courts to try to get my records released and hit roadblock after roadblock, and you just throw up your hands and say, Well, I guess I'll never know. So I knew that I had my adoptive parents' support. If I ever could, they they would they would be amazed that I finally did find my biological family because they wanted it for me, but never thought about it as an auction back then. So you kind of stifle all of that as much as you can. You're always curious. I think who wouldn't it be? Who wouldn't wonder where they're from? But you just put that away, sadly.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Yeah, I think it's fascinating. And I know that's how my brother found out more about our past and our ethnicity and everything, and he gave me access to his DNA test. And it was really interesting to find out. Like we have ancestors not that far back that are like 100% Jewish. So it's so funny that I went through like ethnic day in fourth grade being like I'm German and I'm you know Scandinavian, and and I no idea that there is this big piece that is ethnically a really pretty big piece in our past, and and now we know. My daughter did request that a DNA test because we weren't sure, and so it it's it was been really nice for her to know, and she mentions it all the time to all kinds of people because and and I think part of it is because we talk about Aaron's Indian, we're German and Jewish, and whatever, and so now she's got something to talk about as well, and it's been really nice for her to have that. When we don't connect with family, I feel like sometimes that is something that is a little lost in the spaces I go to because a lot of adoptees, and I've even heard adoptees say, Oh, well, people should adopt like the whole family, they should adopt the first mom and the kids, and in some cases fine, but in in the case of foster care, a lot of times that is way more complicated, and it's for sure. And and I've done volunteering with foster care, and so I have a lot of different experiences from there that it's like connecting with that first family. Sometimes that's great and it's healthy, and sometimes you should not.

Kendall 26:51

Each situation seems very unique.

Corey 26:57

So I would ask this a little bit differently than I normally do. Our normal or final question of the episode is when you were going through all of this stuff, the the emotions and the discovery and everything, was there a musical artist or a song that you relive on? But I'd like to flip that a little bit. When your kids were younger and you were talking about have starting to have these conversations, same question. Was there a musical artist or a genre or a song that you would go back to and share with them?

SPEAKER_02 27:27

I think for my kids, I view them each very differently. This has been true all growing up, is that you know, we talk about favorites and not favorites, and I have five kids, so they are all very different. So I feel like I have different songs for each kid that help me connect with them and that make me think about them.

Kendall 27:54

Right. Hard to say one, right, like one genre, right? It's it's all dependent on which child you're thinking of.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Yeah, exactly. And they're they're all just very different. Even my bio kids are all very different. So, and but one thing I do try to do, and well, it's really hard to narrow it down to one song. One thing I do try to do is whenever I get my kids in the in the car, I try to have them play their Spotify playlist. I don't care if I don't like it, I don't care if it's lyrics that I don't care for. It's like that. It's it's such an insight into where they're at, what they're liking. And so a couple of them have figured this out and they make a a mom okay to playlist to play me, but it's like, no, guys, I want to know what you're listening to.

Corey 28:49

Right, what artists you want. You're not listening to all Billy Joel all the time.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

I've actually gotten some good songs from them. I've gotten some K pop from some of my kids, and like some. I mean, we we also listen to musicals together. I have a a couple of theater kids, and so there I was thinking there was one one song recently I sent to my older daughter about that just made me think of her about this uh a dandelion where they're talking about how you can you can blow it away, but it's just gonna grow back and it's beautiful in its own way and that that kind of thing. But I think more meaningful than like songs that I share with them or the ones they share with me, and the playlist they're willing to share with me, and how they're willing to let me in their brain space. And my older son has given me songs from League of Legends video game. I love those songs he shares that with me, and my other kids I took my daughter, my two girls to the one wanted to go to a Billie Eilish concert, so got some music from that too.

Kendall 29:59

I can see that cool though, and I think that's a great answer for us because I love the idea of parents taking that interest in what their kids are because I think music is a view into our souls. I really do. And I love the fact that shout out to my parents for giving me such your great love of music. You know, they really did. It was always on in the house, and it's almost always on in our house. We turn it off for a podcast recording, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

My youngest son actually likes my playlist. So when he's up front, we get to listen to my music. So but a lot of people don't can't do my music.

Corey 30:45

Just want to say we really respect and appreciate your approach as an adoptive parent and being open to having conversations with adoptees, with other adoptive parents. I mean, we just have to keep these conversations going and growing.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Thank you so much for the opportunity to chat with you guys. It has been really fun.

Corey 31:04

Thanks again to Charlotte. There was something she said during this conversation that I really liked. When she talks about being an adoptive parent in spaces where adoptees may have some pretty strong feelings about adoption, her approach is, I want to learn. I'm not here to tell you stuff. More of that, please. Because one of the things we've learned from doing Family Twist is that there is no single adoption story. Kendall had adoptive parents who love the hell out of him. They supported his curiosity about where he came from, even at a time when closed adoption made actually finding those answers nearly impossible. Other adoptees have completely different experiences, and both things can be true. I also love the conversation about Charlotte's kids sharing their music with her. She doesn't want the mom-approved Spotify playlist. She wants to know what they're actually listening to because it tells her something about who they are. I think that connects nicely to everything else we talked about. You can tell your kids who you think they are, or you can give them room to show you. We'll have links to Charlon's Adopt and Uncovered podcast and her course for adopted parents and her other work in the show notes. Charlotte, thank you for coming on, listening, sharing your own family with us, and being willing to have some conversations that aren't always easy. Thanks for listening. And remember, Family Secrets are the ultimate club twist. The Family Twist Podcast is produced and presented by Mosaic Multimedia.